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Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 03:20 AM
Although I'm not a proponent of Hollow Earth theory, I believe it is worth mentioning the (pseudo?)scientific concept behind this theory. Many people on this forum may have heard of Hollow Earth theory but I doubt many of them can explain what this theory actually claims from a physics point of view.

Hollow Earth theory states that the earth's center of gravity is just a few hundred kilometers below us. According to this theory, the earth's gravity is the consequence of the electro-magnetic features of this center of gravity (functioning much like an electromagnetic coil spool). The center of the earth is (so they say) Hollow and people walk on oposite side of us, as they are on the other side of the center of gravity.

In the middle is a central sun. According to Hollow Earth theory, all planets originated as gas orbs (must like a star) that cooled down until the outer parts became solid. Because of centrifugional powers, there are holes at both poles allowing entry into the Hollow Earth and back.

Proponents of Hollow Earth theory consider Aurora Borealis to be caused by rays from the inner sun shining through the polar openings and affected by the electro-magnetic fields it passes through.

It is said that the origin of human culture exists within Hollow Earth. It is said that a few remaining Nazis moved to Antarctica and entered the Hollow Earth opening to rebuild their society safely. It is said that admiral Byrd once flew into one of the polar openings and wrote a report of his findings.

The major problem with this theory (except for the unconventional physics) is the fact that not a single picture, artifact or person from within Hollow Earth has surfaced. If there really were these openings, certainly at least someone would have entered Hollow Earth and taken some proof with him, right?! At least someone would have exposed that proof and put it on the Internet, right? Certainly there are a few people who claim to be organising a (very expensive) trip to inside Hollow Earth for several years, however to this day Hollow Earth theory seems nothing more than an unsubstanciated hypothesis.

Another big problem with this theory, is that is requires the complicity of NASA as well as many governments considering you don't just hide two huge holes in the earth even if they're at the coldest places. Some say the holes clearly show or were obviously photoshopped out in some of the NASA footage, however these claims are dubious to say the least.


http://darkpassenger.today.com/files/2009/03/hollow_earth.jpg

albie
11-06-2009, 04:07 AM
Hi, I'm Doug McClure and you may know me from such films as...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At_the_Earth's_Core_(film)


Dr. Abner Perry, a Victorian period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victorian_era) scientist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientist) (Cushing), and his American financier David Innes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Innes) (McClure) make a test run of their Iron Mole drilling machine in a Welsh (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wales) mountain, but end up in a strange underground labyrinth (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labyrinth) ruled by a species of giant telepathic flying-reptiles, The Mahars, and full of prehistoric monsters and cavemen. They are captured by the Mahars, who keep primitive humans as their slaves through mind control. David falls for the beautiful slave girl Princess Dia (Munro), but when she is chosen as a sacrificial victim in the Mahar city, David must organize the humans to rebel and save her.



Mahar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahar)

The Mahars are an important social group within the Indian state of Maharashtra state and surrounding states. A grouping of related endogamous castes, the Mahar are the largest scheduled caste group in Maharashtra.[1] In the early 1980s, the Mahar community was estimated to make up about 9% of the population of the state of Maharashtra.[1] . According to Mr. R.V. Russell, "the most probable meaning of Mahārāshtra would therefore seem to be ‘The country of the Mahārs.’". [2] [3]

Do I sense a racial element to this? :)))

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 04:13 AM
Hi, I'm Doug McClure and you may know me from such films as...

I guess you mean Troy McClure :rolleyes:

albie
11-06-2009, 04:21 AM
>>David falls for the beautiful slave girl Princess Dia (Munro), but when she is chosen as a sacrificial victim in the Mahar city

This takes on new relevance when you think about it. Sacrifice? Princess Dia(Di)?

David? David icke? :)))))

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 04:23 AM
>>David falls for the beautiful slave girl Princess Dia (Munro), but when she is chosen as a sacrificial victim in the Mahar city

This takes on new relevance when you think about it. Sacrifice? Princess Dia(Di)?

David? David icke? :)))))

Your imitation of the outer fringe is improving. Your time at "Club Conspiracy" seems to be at least worthwhile in that area. ;)

albie
11-06-2009, 04:27 AM
I'd love to know how people breath underground. In that war film with the tunnel they had to pump air down. Or is that just for tunnels with farts in?

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 04:32 AM
I'd love to know how people breath underground.

Hollow Earth, as shown in the sketch, is supposed to be huge and connected to the atmophere by the polar holes. I see no reason why breathing would be an issue.

In that war film with the tunnel they had to pump air down.

Tunnel rats (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970462/)?

albie
11-06-2009, 05:24 AM
>>>>David falls for the beautiful slave girl Princess Dia (Munro), but when she is chosen as a sacrificial victim in the Mahar city

This takes on new relevance when you think about it. Sacrifice? Princess Dia(Di)?

David? David icke? :)))))


And Diana died in a SUBTERRANEAN type place. And she was a slave, of the Royals and little old ladies who bought her image in magazines.

McClure's character is called David Innes. Even more like David Icke.

I wonder if films act like massive magic spells that end up coming true.


Your imitation of the outer fringe is improving. Your time at "Club Conspiracy" seems to be at least worthwhile in that area. ;)


I started out a conspiracy nut. Always was into weird stuff. When I saw the twin towers go down I knew it was dodgy. But then I found the debunkers and they have good arguments. The truth won't be discovered by nuts or debunkers. If there is a truth. I'm aware that reality is not firm and that something is going on. But the trash most nuts dispense is damaging not liberating. It's not the stuff they give out so much as the belief they have in it WITHOUT QUESTION.

Be unsure and you will win minds, I say. People are completely turned off by zeal.

albie
11-06-2009, 05:30 AM
Hollow Earth, as shown in the sketch, is supposed to be huge and connected to the atmophere by the polar holes. I see no reason why breathing would be an issue.



Tunnel rats (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0970462/)?

Maybe it was Charles Bronson's home brand mustard gas that filled that escape tunnel. But we are talking about DEEP underground. It seems the deep air is denser. Perhaps that is conducive to brain growth etc. Coming upstairs would probably feel like hell, if you lived underground for long enough. THAT'S why the reptiles drink blood! To get more blood cells.

sounds like bullshit, but then It was of my making.

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 05:43 AM
I started out a conspiracy nut.

I actually started out as the kind of people who call themselves "sceptics", but graduately learned to be just as sceptical about mainstream information as one should be about fringe conspiracy theories like David Icke's. ;)

Always was into weird stuff.

Natural and healthy curiosity, I guess.

When I saw the twin towers go down I knew it was dodgy. But then I found the debunkers and they have good arguments.

Your gut feeling was right. You just stumbled on people well enough trained at providing disinformation to make you believe they actually have a point. ;)

The truth won't be discovered by nuts or debunkers. If there is a truth. I'm aware that reality is not firm and that something is going on.

In eg. physics or history a statement can be either true, false or a matter of interpretation. The way to find out what things are really like, is by filtering all information you receive and attempting to put it in either category judging by the evidence. In some cases, this may force you to change an entire theoretical construct because a few tiny elements thereof are blatantly false.

But the trash most nuts dispense is damaging not liberating. It's not the stuff they give out so much as the belief they have in it WITHOUT QUESTION.

True. However, this attitude is common among both "conspiracy nuts" and "debunkers". An open mind is a very rare thing and neither the majority of "conspiracy nuts" nor the majority of "debunkers" are blessed with it in large numbers. The narrowmindedness and prejudice of "debunkers" tends to be even more disturbing since their finding support in mainstream academia on most issues make them feel superior and childish. Thusfar you appeared to be just another one of those douchebags, however your attempt to give an honest and serious explanation of where you're coming from makes me want to give you the benefit of the doubt :D

Be unsure and you will win minds, I say. People are completely turned off by zeal.

It depends on how convincing your arguments are. If you can counter every argument they have, they just might start thinking for themselves. I don't see the benefit of expressing doubt, as this implies you just don't know what you're talking about ;)

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 05:48 AM
But we are talking about DEEP underground. It seems the deep air is denser.

This theory doesn't hold when you pass the center of gravity. Then again, air will become less dense as should be obvious with a basic understanding of physics ;)

The key to understanding Hollow Earth theory is understanding what would be different from a physics perspective if the center of gravitational pull was NOT the center of the earth but rather an electromagnetic coil-like strip about 400 miles underneath the earth's surface.

EireEngineer
11-06-2009, 09:08 AM
This theory doesn't hold when you pass the center of gravity. Then again, air will become less dense as should be obvious with a basic understanding of physics ;)

The key to understanding Hollow Earth theory is understanding what would be different from a physics perspective if the center of gravitational pull was NOT the center of the earth but rather an electromagnetic coil-like strip about 400 miles underneath the earth's surface.
So....are you saying that there would have to be a EM force generating gravity effects?

albie
11-07-2009, 04:38 AM
This theory doesn't hold when you pass the center of gravity. Then again, air will become less dense as should be obvious with a basic understanding of physics ;)

The key to understanding Hollow Earth theory is understanding what would be different from a physics perspective if the center of gravitational pull was NOT the center of the earth but rather an electromagnetic coil-like strip about 400 miles underneath the earth's surface.

A basic understanding of physics? Oh! YOU'RE style of physics, you mean. Oh, sure if there were giant coils just under the surface. Yeah, I see.:confused:

I think bringing physics into this is just plain ridiculous. And how would the hollow earth have survived the impact from giant meteorites? Such as the one which killed the dinosaurs? And then the problem of earthquakes. I suppose they are just the Molochs dropping things. Yes, I see now.

There are far too many obvious reasons why the earth isn't hollow. But there's no reason why there couldn't be entire worlds down there a few miles deep.

EireEngineer
11-07-2009, 05:40 AM
True, except that its pretty hot a few miles down, at least it was any place where we drilled that deep. However, anythings possible.

Out of the Box
11-08-2009, 06:16 AM
I think bringing physics into this is just plain ridiculous. And how would the hollow earth have survived the impact from giant meteorites? Such as the one which killed the dinosaurs?

Why wouldn't Hollow Earth have survived? How do we even know the dinosaurs were killed by a meteorite impact (last time I checked, this was but one of many unproven hyposeses)

And then the problem of earthquakes. I suppose they are just the Molochs dropping things. Yes, I see now.

Hollow Earth theory is perfectly compatible with tectonics.

There are far too many obvious reasons why the earth isn't hollow.

Such as?

True, except that its pretty hot a few miles down, at least it was any place where we drilled that deep. However, anythings possible.

It gets hotter the closer we get to the center of gravity.

albie
11-09-2009, 04:59 AM
>>The key to understanding Hollow Earth theory is understanding what would be different from a physics perspective if the center of gravitational pull was NOT the center of the earth but rather an electromagnetic coil-like strip about 400 miles underneath the earth's surface.

Electromagnetism is not gravity. I'm sure you'll find that out IF you bother to read the books.

albie
11-09-2009, 05:00 AM
>>Why wouldn't Hollow Earth have survived? How do we even know the dinosaurs were killed by a meteorite impact (last time I checked, this was but one of many unproven hyposeses)

I need to explain a thin crust coming to blows with a massive object?
Doesn't matter if it did kill the dinosaurs. The impacts still happen.

albie
11-09-2009, 05:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by albie http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/images/clubconspiracy/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f53/hollow-earth-theory-10573-2.html#post62508)
There are far too many obvious reasons why the earth isn't hollow.

Such as?



Well, seeing as you have gone to end of all conspiracy debates you will be able to tell me that. Asssuming you actually DID have these debates.

Out of the Box
11-09-2009, 06:37 AM
Electromagnetism is not gravity.

There has been continuous serious investigation into the possibility that gravity and electromagnetic forces are linked. Unified theories of forces have been of continuous interest to physicists. Some of the more famous examples include Maxwell in 1855 who showed electric and magnetic lines of force could be described by a single set of equations; Einstein died working on a unified field theory to explain the relationship between gravitation and electromagnetism and more recently, the 1999 Nobel Prize was awarded for work toward deriving a unified framework for all the theoretical forces (Gerard 't Hooft).

I need to explain a thin crust coming to blows with a massive object?

800 miles isn't that thin.

Well, seeing as you have gone to end of all conspiracy debates you will be able to tell me that. Asssuming you actually DID have these debates.

I've debated only very little on Hollow Earth theory since I'm not convinced by it itself. Nevertheless, I can't say I've seen any serious attempts to debunk the physics of this theory either.

EireEngineer
11-09-2009, 08:05 AM
Why wouldn't Hollow Earth have survived? How do we even know the dinosaurs were killed by a meteorite impact (last time I checked, this was but one of many unproven hyposeses)



Hollow Earth theory is perfectly compatible with tectonics.



Such as?



It gets hotter the closer we get to the center of gravity.
Why would the center of gravity have anything to do with the temperature?

Out of the Box
11-09-2009, 12:12 PM
Why would the center of gravity have anything to do with the temperature?

Maybe the electro-magnetic coil (whatever it is made of) that creates the gravitational field of the planet generates a lot of heat? I don't know. This sort of physics is a bit too advanced for me :o

EireEngineer
11-09-2009, 08:21 PM
Maybe the electro-magnetic coil (whatever it is made of) that creates the gravitational field of the planet generates a lot of heat? I don't know. This sort of physics is a bit too advanced for me :o
Well....an electro-magnetic coil could create magnetism, but not gravity. And if it were to generate that kind of heat, it would mean that it has a high resistance, meaning it would have to be fed by a GIGANTIC power source. Something akin to the sun, only controlled and channeled.

Out of the Box
11-10-2009, 02:07 AM
Well....an electro-magnetic coil could create magnetism, but not gravity.

I already went there.

Let me repeat myself :
There has been continuous serious investigation into the possibility that gravity and electromagnetic forces are linked. Unified theories of forces have been of continuous interest to physicists. Some of the more famous examples include Maxwell in 1855 who showed electric and magnetic lines of force could be described by a single set of equations; Einstein died working on a unified field theory to explain the relationship between gravitation and electromagnetism and more recently, the 1999 Nobel Prize was awarded for work toward deriving a unified framework for all the theoretical forces (Gerard 't Hooft).

And if it were to generate that kind of heat, it would mean that it has a high resistance, meaning it would have to be fed by a GIGANTIC power source. Something akin to the sun, only controlled and channeled.

Giant reservoirs of hot magma?

albie
11-10-2009, 04:36 AM
All forces are linked. You could just as easily say gravity and light are linked. I'm pretty sick of this really flabby logic.

Out of the Box
11-10-2009, 05:57 AM
All forces are linked. You could just as easily say gravity and light are linked.

OK, smart@$$. Please tell me what generates earth's magnetic field.

EireEngineer
11-10-2009, 08:39 AM
I already went there.

Let me repeat myself :
There has been continuous serious investigation into the possibility that gravity and electromagnetic forces are linked. Unified theories of forces have been of continuous interest to physicists. Some of the more famous examples include Maxwell in 1855 who showed electric and magnetic lines of force could be described by a single set of equations; Einstein died working on a unified field theory to explain the relationship between gravitation and electromagnetism and more recently, the 1999 Nobel Prize was awarded for work toward deriving a unified framework for all the theoretical forces (Gerard 't Hooft).



Giant reservoirs of hot magma?
Yes, there is a possibilty that the two forces are linked at some fundamental level, just as the Strong and Weak forces possibly are. You are confusing unification with application. You cannot possibly duplicate a gravity field from an electro-magnetic source.
As far as magma power, no, it does not quite work that way. You need an electric flow through a coil to induce a magnetic field, and there is no possible way that the heat from magma could do this, without a man-made mechanical component that is.

Ah, and the whole thing is irrelevant anyway because seismic data proves its not hollow.

EireEngineer
11-10-2009, 08:40 AM
All forces are linked. You could just as easily say gravity and light are linked. I'm pretty sick of this really flabby logic.
You really arent helping the skeptical movement being so silly.

Out of the Box
11-15-2009, 09:42 AM
Yes, there is a possibilty that the two forces are linked at some fundamental level, just as the Strong and Weak forces possibly are. You are confusing unification with application. You cannot possibly duplicate a gravity field from an electro-magnetic source.

But couldn't there by a source generating both gravity and electro-magnetism? I have to admit that I haven't had much exposure to advanced (MIT level) physics, but as a layman this does seem feasible.

As far as magma power, no, it does not quite work that way. You need an electric flow through a coil to induce a magnetic field, and there is no possible way that the heat from magma could do this, without a man-made mechanical component that is.

Why? Could you explain?

Ah, and the whole thing is irrelevant anyway because seismic data proves its not hollow.

How? How can we be certain we interpret the seismic data correctly?

stompk
11-15-2009, 10:20 AM
I don't see the story about Admiral Byrd here. He, confirmed the story about hollow earth.


'We have let you enter here because you are of noble character and well-known on the Surface World, Admiral.' Surface World, I half-gasp under my breath! 'Yes," the Master replies with a smile, 'you are in the domain of the Arianni, the Inner World of the Earth. We shall not long delay your mission, and you will be safely escorted back to the surface and for a distance beyond. But now, Admiral, I shall tell you why you have been summoned here. Our interest rightly begins just after your race exploded the first atomic bombs over Hiroshima and Nagasaki, Japan. It was at that alarm ing time we sent our flying machines, the "Flugelrads", to your surface world to investigate what your race had done. That is, of course, past history now, my dear Admiral, but I must continue on. You see, we have never interfered before in your race's wars, and barbarity, but now we must, for you have learned to tamper with a certain power that is not for man, namely, that of atomic energy. Our emissaries have already delivered messages to the powers of your world, and yet they do not heed. Now you have been chosen to be witness here that our world does exist. You see, our Culture and Science is many thousands of years beyond your race, Admiral.' I interrupted, 'But what does this have to do with me, Sir?'

Secret Diary of Admiral Byrd? (http://www.v-j-enterprises.com/byrdiar.html)

Out of the Box
11-16-2009, 04:25 AM
I don't see the story about Admiral Byrd here. He, confirmed the story about hollow earth.

I didn't mention it because the authenticity of Byrd's "secret diary" has not been confirmed even in "believer" circles.

albie
11-16-2009, 05:14 AM
You really arent helping the skeptical movement being so silly.

By pointing out a flaw in your thinking? Just because all forces are linked(a theory) does not mean one acts like another. Why didn't you just say there were gravity coils under the earth?

cbluemagica
05-12-2010, 07:54 PM
Although I'm not a proponent of Hollow Earth theory, I believe it is worth mentioning the (pseudo?)scientific concept behind this theory. Many people on this forum may have heard of Hollow Earth theory but I doubt many of them can explain what this theory actually claims from a physics point of view.

Hollow Earth theory states that the earth's center of gravity is just a few hundred kilometers below us. According to this theory, the earth's gravity is the consequence of the electro-magnetic features of this center of gravity (functioning much like an electromagnetic coil spool). The center of the earth is (so they say) Hollow and people walk on oposite side of us, as they are on the other side of the center of gravity.

In the middle is a central sun. According to Hollow Earth theory, all planets originated as gas orbs (must like a star) that cooled down until the outer parts became solid. Because of centrifugional powers, there are holes at both poles allowing entry into the Hollow Earth and back.

Proponents of Hollow Earth theory consider Aurora Borealis to be caused by rays from the inner sun shining through the polar openings and affected by the electro-magnetic fields it passes through.

It is said that the origin of human culture exists within Hollow Earth. It is said that a few remaining Nazis moved to Antarctica and entered the Hollow Earth opening to rebuild their society safely. It is said that admiral Byrd once flew into one of the polar openings and wrote a report of his findings.

The major problem with this theory (except for the unconventional physics) is the fact that not a single picture, artifact or person from within Hollow Earth has surfaced. If there really were these openings, certainly at least someone would have entered Hollow Earth and taken some proof with him, right?! At least someone would have exposed that proof and put it on the Internet, right? Certainly there are a few people who claim to be organising a (very expensive) trip to inside Hollow Earth for several years, however to this day Hollow Earth theory seems nothing more than an unsubstanciated hypothesis.

Another big problem with this theory, is that is requires the complicity of NASA as well as many governments considering you don't just hide two huge holes in the earth even if they're at the coldest places. Some say the holes clearly show or were obviously photoshopped out in some of the NASA footage, however these claims are dubious to say the least.


http://darkpassenger.today.com/files/2009/03/hollow_earth.jpg

so this inner sun. it has its own gravitational pull? like the sun itself.

Out of the Box
05-13-2010, 03:47 AM
so this inner sun. it has its own gravitational pull? like the sun itself.

It seems that according to Hollow Earth theory gravitational pull is directed towards the center of the earth's crust that acts somewhat like a magnetic coil.

andy435
03-23-2011, 07:09 PM
Well. I certainly do not believe in this theory. Just does not comply with the laws of physics. It just doesn't make sense. However, I think it was supposed to be a spoof. Just like this article is trying to convey...

Holes In The Poles (http://jigarbpatel.blogspot.com/2009/06/hollow-earth-theory.html)

trustno1
05-12-2011, 11:33 PM
Well. I certainly do not believe in this theory. Just does not comply with the laws of physics. It just doesn't make sense. However, I think it was supposed to be a spoof. Just like this article is trying to convey...

Holes In The Poles (http://jigarbpatel.blogspot.com/2009/06/hollow-earth-theory.html)

I think that picture is some graphic art done by someone who wants us all to believe that is true. It's a fake, got to love the artwork though.

jane doe
08-13-2011, 10:16 AM
I believe Hawking does not have a theory for gravity. Perhaps the Expanding Earth Theory would be better for mathematical equasions for gravity. This could explain the change of gravitational force's effects on size evolutions in species habitating this planet. The larger the mass, the greater the gravity, the smaller the species as mass increases.

Not a scientist, though.

EireEngineer
08-14-2011, 05:19 AM
I believe Hawking does not have a theory for gravity. Perhaps the Expanding Earth Theory would be better for mathematical equasions for gravity. This could explain the change of gravitational force's effects on size evolutions in species habitating this planet. The larger the mass, the greater the gravity, the smaller the species as mass increases.

Not a scientist, though.
Seeing as there already is a well founded explanation of gravity, why would Hawking have his own? And no, its not a change in gravity that affects the average size of creatures on Earth, but rather the amount of biomass in the ecosystem that is available.

jane doe
08-15-2011, 07:54 AM
Seeing as there already is a well founded explanation of gravity, why would Hawking have his own? And no, its not a change in gravity that affects the average size of creatures on Earth, but rather the amount of biomass in the ecosystem that is available.
Not necessarily. Plants as well as animals evolve independent of each other.

"In analyzing our interactome map of Arabidopsis, we found strong evidence of this rapid-then-slow process over the hundreds of millions of years of the plant's evolution," says Braun. "It provides the first-ever empirical evidence of evolution acting on protein networks."

First large-scale map of a plant's protein network addresses evolution, disease process (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/07/110728144734.htm)

Also note the finding supports extinction, not evolution:

Humans driving extinction faster than species can evolve, say experts.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/mar/07/extinction-species-evolve

EireEngineer
08-15-2011, 09:17 PM
I somehow doubt a change in gravity ( Which would require a change in mass, by the way. Where did all that mass go or come from?) would affect the overall amount of biomass, but a changing atmosphere certainly would.

ragavang43
03-18-2012, 05:47 AM
Charles Bronson's home brand mustard gas that filled that escape tunnel.