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Algebra
12-22-2009, 10:21 AM
Would you agree that slavery still exists? and would you accept that you are a slave?

What if you were convinced that you are free when actually your the property of the government that rules your country.

So what is it that makes us feel like were free in our current society in the first place. Our ability to choose our own carier path. Our ability to Earn money and then buy what ever we want with it.

The problem i have with this is. Money itself is created by the government. It costs them nothing to produce. Then when you get a job and start earning it they take it back off you again. Meaning that in essence you've actually been working for free.

Lets say you buy a car. The money go's to the dealer who pays his bills and taxes with it which sends it strait back in to the hands of the people who made it in the first place. The Government. Its the same for everything you can imagine spending your money on.

So buy using money. Are they creating a false sense of freedom. Whilst all along using us as slaves to expand there own intrests?

Let me know what you think and if you can think of any other tools of false freedom.

EireEngineer
12-22-2009, 05:52 PM
Wow. I suggest looking into an Econ. 101 class at your local community college. You have a pretty skewed view of how transactions between willing participants work.

Algebra
12-22-2009, 06:43 PM
Wow. I suggest looking into an Econ. 101 class at your local community college. You have a pretty skewed view of how transactions between willing participants work.

LOL take it you dont think much of it then? nevermind just trying to get some conversation happening.

Algebra
12-23-2009, 07:23 AM
LOL take it you dont think much of it then? nevermind just trying to get some conversation happening.

Any way thats an attack on me not an objective argument. I could say that about any article on here. Give me some reasons why you have a problem with this. I assume you have taken ECO 101 so enlighten me.

EireEngineer
12-23-2009, 07:50 AM
It is an interesting topic, but there are a couple of overstatements in there. First of all, not all of the money in your car deal example goes back to the government. A fraction of it certainly does, and that fraction does seem to keep increasing every year, but thankfully it is far from 100%....but give the Democrats time lol.

Algebra
12-23-2009, 10:08 AM
It is an interesting topic, but there are a couple of overstatements in there. First of all, not all of the money in your car deal example goes back to the government. A fraction of it certainly does, and that fraction does seem to keep increasing every year, but thankfully it is far from 100%....but give the Democrats time lol.


Look deeper in to it and im willing to bet that it does end up back in the hands of the government eventualy. Although it will change hands a fair number of times before it does. It gets complicated but when i've come up with a model i'll post it see what you think.

jane doe
12-23-2009, 04:58 PM
Freedom is a basic modification of vision. How one views the basic necessities of life, whether primitively/holistically food and shelter or ornaments determins the level of freedom. Tangible chains excluded, spirtual and mental chains are relative.

Whether or not the government controls your health is a choice as well. Often the created co-dependency manufactures power for the medical industry.

EireEngineer
12-23-2009, 07:06 PM
Wow...nice string of platitudes and mumbo-jumbo there jane. Do you have a point?

jane doe
12-24-2009, 08:13 AM
Wow...nice string of platitudes and mumbo-jumbo there jane. Do you have a point?

not to stick it in your face.


edit to add: Slavery is just an allusion as well as freedom.

Algebra
12-24-2009, 09:11 AM
not to stick it in your face.


edit to add: Slavery is just an allusion as well as freedom.

So what your saying is, no matter how you live your life. Your neither free nor a slave its just how you percieve your sutuation.

So no ammount of argument on either side will make any difference. I percieve myself as a slave. whilst others are convinced they're free. On the one hand i see money as a device of false freedom. While the other camp uses it to justify that they are free.

Meanwhile they who created money in the first place "The Government" only have to convince the majority in order to implicate the device creating a cascade down through society. Alienating one group and empowering the other.

This only reinforces my belief that im a slave.

Very interesting, thanks for your reply.

Merry Christmas.

jane doe
12-24-2009, 04:57 PM
Merry Christmas as well. But alas, Christmas is another time relevant to the merchandising of expectations.

I can remember the first time I learned about intangibles man created within this linear, physical plane. Slavery was one of them. It was very odd to me that a very strong and genetically designed man could give into the mental power of a weak mix bred man. I thought an agreement must have been reached before this behavior occured.

I have not made any agreements of those around me. Unless I am shackled and named a hostage, once the shackles are removed, I am free. Whether I run and am killed is all a choice. Being dead is easier and more free than these agreements and mental bonds. Many "slaves" sang their self to freedom.

Perhaps, Algebra, you are a slave to the concept of slavery. Have you tried to undo the bonds of slave vs. free bounds?

The space between the two is a resting plateau.


The government also has multiple agendas and mental objectives. Obama has fallen into the abyss quite rapidly.

I hope you wish your way out of slavery.:)

Algebra
12-24-2009, 05:39 PM
Merry Christmas as well. But alas, Christmas is another time relevant to the merchandising of expectations.

I can remember the first time I learned about intangibles man created within this linear, physical plane. Slavery was one of them. It was very odd to me that a very strong and genetically designed man could give into the mental power of a weak mix bred man. I thought an agreement must have been reached before this behavior occured.

I have not made any agreements of those around me. Unless I am shackled and named a hostage, once the shackles are removed, I am free. Whether I run and am killed is all a choice. Being dead is easier and more free than these agreements and mental bonds. Many "slaves" sang their self to freedom.

Perhaps, Algebra, you are a slave to the concept of slavery. Have you tried to undo the bonds of slave vs. free bounds?

The space between the two is a resting plateau.


The government also has multiple agendas and mental objectives. Obama has fallen into the abyss quite rapidly.

I hope you wish your way out of slavery.:)

Im full of many internal conflicts that need addresed but on addresing them i shall probably see no need, nor seek the wisdom of others. Your insight may have freed me from slavery. For that i am thankfull, but im still bound tight by my thirst for knowlege. ;)

BlueAngel
12-24-2009, 09:38 PM
Jane Doe said:

"Obama has fallen into the abyss quite rapidly."

Why would you say this?

Obama hasn't fallen into anything.

He has risen to power just as he was expected to do.

He holds the highest elected position in the world and is performing for the CONTROLLERS as they desire.

I don't see that this equates to OBAMA plummeting to a bottomless pit.

jane doe
12-26-2009, 09:54 AM
.

He holds the highest elected position in the world and is performing for the CONTROLLERS as they desire.

I don't see that this equates to OBAMA plummeting to a bottomless pit.

Then you are happy with the perception Control and Government portrays for your programming. When an individual gives into to another form of thought, they give away their energy. The redundant energy of "performing" for an entity is in itself behavior modification. Since it is evident Obama has no intentions of stopping war, starvation, greed, he is not a leader of free thought.

jane doe
12-26-2009, 09:56 AM
Your insight may have freed me from slavery. For that i am thankfull, but im still bound tight by my thirst for knowlege. ;)

Only you can free yourself. Do your best not to enslave the thoughts of others for your freedom.

Public Enemy Number One
12-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Would you agree that slavery still exists? and would you accept that you are a slave?

What if you were convinced that you are free when actually your the property of the government that rules your country.

So what is it that makes us feel like were free in our current society in the first place. Our ability to choose our own carier path. Our ability to Earn money and then buy what ever we want with it.

The problem i have with this is. Money itself is created by the government. It costs them nothing to produce. Then when you get a job and start earning it they take it back off you again. Meaning that in essence you've actually been working for free.

Lets say you buy a car. The money go's to the dealer who pays his bills and taxes with it which sends it strait back in to the hands of the people who made it in the first place. The Government. Its the same for everything you can imagine spending your money on.

So buy using money. Are they creating a false sense of freedom. Whilst all along using us as slaves to expand there own intrests?

Let me know what you think and if you can think of any other tools of false freedom.


I am free, for now, because I can worship God. Unfortunately, there are people who hate those like me.
These people are offended by me saying "Merry Christmas". They tell me I can believe in my religion, as long as I REALLY don't believe it. I mean by this that if I just make a token appearance at Church, but actively indulge in prohibited activity, this makes me a "good Christian".
The same people tell me I have the right to follow my religion and they are for tolerance, but I guess this only applies if I agree with them. They say I am intolerant, and then curse and swear at me. I guess intolerance of my "intolerance" is proper, allthough it sounds like a contradiction to me.

I for one am for sucession (sp?), because they do not walk the same path as I. I hope the United States will let us go peacefully. I hope they will be tolerant of our choice to live in a Republic where we proudly embrace our Judeo-Christian culture, and where my brothers and sister oppressed all over the world can be free to pray, read the Scriptures and worship together at peace.
It is unlikely that they will. This is sad. It is sad because I do not wish to harm anyone nor do I desire them to harm me. But like my Jewish brothers back in ancient Israel who resisted the Hellenization of their People via the Roman Empire, if we must we will resist the United States as well. We desire to live our traditions and the precepts of our faith, but they do not wish us to.
If die I must, then I will. I only desire the same rights my forefathers and foremothers fleeing Europe desired: the wish to worship God in peace and security. I call on the United States to let my people go, as Moses did to the Pharoah when the nation of Israel was in bondage to them. Like Moses, I warn the United States of Divine Judgement if they do not; I warn them that if they will not let my people go the Angel of Death will visit again and bring sorrow to both of our houses.
Let my people go! We do not wish to have God driven out of our schools and our homes!
Let my people go! We do not wish for gay marriage!
Let my people go! We do not wish for your Government to mock our traditions and beliefs!
Let my people go! We do not desire you're Nanny State!
Let my people go! We do not wish to live under your Progressive Secular law!
Let my people go, for there are more of us then you know, here in the Deep South, the Midwest and elsewhere. Let us found our Republic and live side by side as neighbors in peace.
We will not attack you if you do not attack us, But should you draw the sword, we will not sheath ours until our Republic is secure and you have taken the oppressive hand of your Progressive, Christian hating hand off us.

As the Scripture says; I set before you a choice between life and death. Be wise, therefore, and choose life.

Algebra
12-26-2009, 09:20 PM
O.K im gonna keep this short because your just repeating your self now.

I have no problem with you believing in God or bieng part of any religeon. However you need to understand that just because you do. It does'nt give you liscence to go around preaching that we as non believers are all evil. Thats when you come in to conflict with people like me. By calling me evil you've now opened your self up to attack. The last thing you want because i will do exactly as i have been. Make you realize that your religeon is no more than in instrument used to keep you under control. As long as your under control someone else is in power. Making you no more than a willing participant to your own slavery. You've been brain washed. Why cant you see it? Im not saying it to piss you off. Its true.

So if you dont want this kind of attention then leave those who dont want to believe out of your little rants. Faith in someone who does'nt exist is'nt exactly a strong possition to start a one man crusade.

BlueAngel
12-26-2009, 09:31 PM
Then you are happy with the perception Control and Government portrays for your programming. When an individual gives into to another form of thought, they give away their energy. The redundant energy of "performing" for an entity is in itself behavior modification. Since it is evident Obama has no intentions of stopping war, starvation, greed, he is not a leader of free thought.

Ah, how did you perceive that my comment implied I was happy with the perception CONTROL and government portrays for your programming?

Ah, wherein did I say that Obama was a leader of free thought?

This is what I said:

Jane Doe said:

"Obama has fallen into the abyss quite rapidly."

Why would you say this?

Obama hasn't fallen into anything.

He has risen to power just as he was expected to do.

He holds the highest elected position in the world and is performing for the CONTROLLERS as they desire.

I don't see that this equates to OBAMA plummeting to a bottomless pit.

--------------------------------------------------------------

You must be replying to another member's comment, because your response does not in any way, shape or form address what I posted (as above).

jane doe
12-26-2009, 10:04 PM
Blue Angel, I will not try to communicate with you any more. Please respect with the same behavior.

BlueAngel
12-26-2009, 10:16 PM
Blue Angel, I will not try to communicate with you any more. Please respect with the same behavior.

You do as you desire and I'll do as I desire.

Public Enemy Number One
12-26-2009, 10:54 PM
O.K im gonna keep this short because your just repeating your self now.

I have no problem with you believing in God or bieng part of any religeon. However you need to understand that just because you do. It does'nt give you liscence to go around preaching that we as non believers are all evil. Thats when you come in to conflict with people like me. By calling me evil you've now opened your self up to attack. The last thing you want because i will do exactly as i have been. Make you realize that your religeon is no more than in instrument used to keep you under control. As long as your under control someone else is in power. Making you no more than a willing participant to your own slavery. You've been brain washed. Why cant you see it? Im not saying it to piss you off. Its true.

So if you dont want this kind of attention then leave those who dont want to believe out of your little rants. Faith in someone who does'nt exist is'nt exactly a strong possition to start a one man crusade.

No, you are not evil. Just your religion (and it is spelled RELIGION-USE SPELLCHECK!!). In fact the Scriptures plainly say "All have sinned and come short of the glory of God". In other words, ALL HUMANS, have sinned. You, me-ALL OF US. Despite what your religion tells you, humans are sinners- people who fall short because they have a rebellious will that puts them in conflict with the will of God.
The wars,hate, e.t.c is a RESULT of this innate inability to OBEY God. It CAN NOT be changed by social programs, psychology, 12 Step Programs, trying to be nicer or kinder-ONLY BY GOD!
Your argument is not with me-it's with God. Untill you perhaps someday come to FULLY understand that by your own will or effort you CAN NOT be "good" , you will continue to be, AS ALL HUMANS ARE, by definition, evil. Your religion simply takes God out of the equation and make YOU God, as if you were the Creator of this wonderful Universe and final arbiter on the moral order that should be the basis of sane living in a sane and truly good society.
The only difference between you and I is this: I ADMIT I am a sinner, and that I NEED God to help me because I am incapable of NOT being this way. I am human and this means as a human being I was born with the innate desire, tendency and INABILTY NOT to sin. When i do wrong, I promptly admit it to God, ask forgiveness and seek to amend it by asking forgiveness from whom I have wronged. I then ask God to help me not to do it again because, being human, it is my nature to do evil.
I have a challenge for you: If you can be good with God then tell me this: Are you able to NOT do some thing you consider wrong, even when you KNOW it is wrong? Have you not done things, over and over again, you KNEW was wrong but STILL did it? The answer is yes, because YOU are enslaved to sin and CAN NOT, of your own free will and power, FREE YOURSELF!

No, you as all of us are a slave- a slave to sin. Only God can begin to allow you to be released from your bonds. Untill then you will remain today, tomorow and FOREVER...A SLAVE!

Algebra
12-27-2009, 08:47 PM
Here you go again preaching to me about someone who does'nt exist. Yes i can say he does'nt exist because theres absolutely no evidence that he does. As for "My religion" as you keep calling it. I dont have one, im non religiouse. Cant you tell by my posts that i dont like religeons. Or instruments of control.

There is no such thing as sin. Sin was made up by the creators of religeons to describe behaviour they deem to be out side of there demands. Demands that are layed out to control peoples behaviours. How can a Gorrilla killing a monkey be natural, but a man killing another man be a sin.

You talk about my inability to obey God. If i actually believed there was one i still would'nt do what he demanded of me. I choose how i live my life. Which is more than you can say. I'm master of my own destiny, while you think your destined for heaven if you will only dedicate your self to living by the rules set out in a book. In essence the bible is no more than a self help book. Lets say Tom Cruise brought one out, and promised that if you followed it you would be rewarded by a place in a magical paradise when you die. Would you believe him. After all theres just as much evidence to support his claims as those in the bible.

As for not doing something that is wrong, who decides whats wrong and right. There is no act that one person could'nt claim to be wrong and another claim to be right. It all depends on the person in question. So the question is pointless.

Truthbetold
12-29-2009, 05:54 AM
So what your saying is, no matter how you live your life. Your neither free nor a slave its just how you percieve your sutuation.


You are a slave because you think you are.
You dont have the believe the lies
You can chose your own path, and gain your own knowledge
You cant be told what to believe, only what you think to believe

So basically you are what you think you are

BlueAngel
12-29-2009, 09:37 PM
Here you go again preaching to me about someone who does'nt exist. Yes i can say he does'nt exist because theres absolutely no evidence that he does. As for "My religion" as you keep calling it. I dont have one, im non religiouse. Cant you tell by my posts that i dont like religeons. Or instruments of control.

There is no such thing as sin. Sin was made up by the creators of religeons to describe behaviour they deem to be out side of there demands. Demands that are layed out to control peoples behaviours. How can a Gorrilla killing a monkey be natural, but a man killing another man be a sin.

You talk about my inability to obey God. If i actually believed there was one i still would'nt do what he demanded of me. I choose how i live my life. Which is more than you can say. I'm master of my own destiny, while you think your destined for heaven if you will only dedicate your self to living by the rules set out in a book. In essence the bible is no more than a self help book. Lets say Tom Cruise brought one out, and promised that if you followed it you would be rewarded by a place in a magical paradise when you die. Would you believe him. After all theres just as much evidence to support his claims as those in the bible.

As for not doing something that is wrong, who decides whats wrong and right. There is no act that one person could'nt claim to be wrong and another claim to be right. It all depends on the person in question. So the question is pointless.

Sorry, but SIN is just another word for wrong.

So, there is such a thing as SIN.

Such as incest.

That's just wrong.

Algebra
12-29-2009, 09:40 PM
Sorry, but SIN is just another word for wrong.

So, there is such a thing as SIN.

Such as incest.

That's just wrong.

Thats exactly what im saying theres no such thing as sin. Incest is only a sin or a bad thing if you see it that way. Someone else might not have a problem with it. Like i said above its all down to perception.

BlueAngel
12-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Thats exactly what im saying theres no such thing as sin. Incest is only a sin or a bad thing if you see it that way. Someone else might not have a problem with it. Like i said above its all down to perception.

Huh?

I didn't say anything that equates to exactly what you are saying.

Thank goodness for that.

You are of the opinion that incest is only a sin or bad thing if you see it that way.

There's no other way to see it, pal unless you are the prepetrator.

Apparenlty, you do not know the difference between right and wrong.

Incest has nothing to do with perception.

It's wrong.

PERIOD!

Seek help.

Algebra
12-29-2009, 09:58 PM
Huh?

I didn't say anything that equates to exactly what you are saying.

Thank goodness for that.

You are of the opinion that incest is only a sin or bad thing if you see it that way.

There's no other way to see it, pal.

Apparenlty, you do not know the difference between right and wrong.

Incest has nothing to do with perception.

It's wrong.

PERIOD!

Seek help.

Thats just your oppinion. If someone see's it as bieng fine calling it a sin or saying its wrong wont make any difference to them. And just so theres no confusion. Im not saying incest is fine here so you can steer away from that assumption before you even get started.

BlueAngel
12-29-2009, 10:23 PM
Thats just your oppinion. If someone see's it as bieng fine calling it a sin or saying its wrong wont make any difference to them. And just so theres no confusion. Im not saying incest is fine here so you can steer away from that assumption before you even get started.

I've already started.

Too late to steer away.

You said:

"Incest is only a sin or a bad thing if you see it that way."

You are one hair away from being banished from this forum.

We don't support your type of thought here.

I suggest you go elsewhere.

Algebra
12-29-2009, 11:02 PM
I've already started.

Too late to steer away.

You said:

"Incest is only a sin or a bad thing if you see it that way."

You are one hair away from being banished from this forum.

We don't support your type of thought here.

I suggest you go elsewhere.

So your allowed to have a point of view as long as "you" agree with it.

Fuck you!

Ban me, this sites full of religouse nuts and Depressives anyway. Your nothing more than a nazi. Soon as someone diagrees with you your PMT kicks in. You cant get a decent discussion about anything on here.

Go get a ride on a big cock and cheer up bitch. If your old an dry consider some HRT or something. Ive no time for people like you anyaway.

Kiss my hairy ball sack! and tell your daddy to leave you alone. ;)

BlueAngel
12-29-2009, 11:11 PM
So your allowed to have a point of view as long as "you" agree with it.

Fuck you!

Ban me, this sites full of religouse nuts and Depressives anyway. Your nothing more than a nazi. Soon as someone diagrees with you your PMT kicks in. You cant get a decent discussion about anything on here.

Go get a ride on a big cock and cheer up bitch. If your old an dry consider some HRT or something. Ive no time for people like you anyaway.

Kiss my hairy ball sack! and tell your daddy to leave you alone. ;)

Huh?

Anyone know what PMT is?

Bye-bye!

Truthbetold
12-30-2009, 06:21 AM
while algebra was beening a asshole...

he was right.. just a sick example he gave:P

but In roman times homosexuality was very much accepted...
While it is still not regarded 'normal' these days

mello..melliexo
01-01-2010, 11:23 PM
Incest between adults and prepubescent or adolescent children is considered a form of child sexual abuse that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood trauma, a trauma that often does serious and long-term psychological damage, especially in the case of parental incest. It is also the most common form.
Obviously algebra either you have been decensortised your self in terms of sexual abuse or you are a selfish unempathetic ignorant idiot wierdo.
Incest is not ok if you think it's ok. Just as detatching the limb off something inoccent is not ok if you think its ok.
It is obviously wrong and particularily in terms of a father towards his child.
I understand what your trying to say, that if you think something is ok than it's ok as our own moral laws are based on our subconciouse though there are other factors involved:
as is the evironment we grew up in that provide the foundation for what we percieve as being right and wrong, this incorporated with media, parental influence... etc.
Everyone has different perceptions of whats rite and wrong. if we all went around doing what we thought was rite and wrong than a few of the fucked up fucks would end up traumatising the clear minded others.
Obviously your view of rite and wrong is not right as you percieve incest as being acceptable and verbally degrading some woman you know nothing about. Ignorant generalising wanker, spinning cleshay crap at some woman that you don't even know... calling her a bitch.. what coz all women are bitches or only the ones that go up against your authority?
Lets re-wind the clock have you at 6 and (not to be disrespectful if you don't have one, if this is the case than use your imagination) your father who believes he has authority to do as he wishes with you as you are his own rapes you for the rest of your life untill you are old enough to escape his grasp. what this is ok because he thinks its ok than huh?

How about you go get your asshole and throat pumped and skwirted by two giant unwanted dicks than come back and talk to us.
Sounds to me like your one of those losers who need personal experience to understand.

sarbu
01-02-2010, 04:56 AM
I think the idea of having a conspiracy theory in the first place is based on the belief that we are enslaved one way or another. The problem however is what to do when you actually discover that there is no getting out of it, because this is how itīs ment to be in the first place. the truth is that we only do what we do in our lifetime to ensure living the best way we possibly can and once we achieve that we ocupy our time with things that seem meaningfull but donīt lead us anywhere. itīs the same thing as having a hobby. Mankindīs dilema is actually the fact that we have a counciousness telling us that we are slaves and that there is nothing we can do about it. this leads to depression, and the times we are not depressed is when our ignorance for reality takes control

BlueAngel
01-02-2010, 08:50 AM
while algebra was beening a asshole...

he was right.. just a sick example he gave:P

but In roman times homosexuality was very much accepted...
While it is still not regarded 'normal' these days

Algebra was not right.

Incest is wrong regardless of one's perception that it might be right and, the only people who might perceive it to be right would be those who engage in it; however, I would wager that the majority of people who engage in incest are aware that it is an immoral act.

We're not talking about homosexuality here.

We're talking about incest.

BlueAngel
01-02-2010, 08:54 AM
Incest between adults and prepubescent or adolescent children is considered a form of child sexual abuse that has been shown to be one of the most extreme forms of childhood trauma, a trauma that often does serious and long-term psychological damage, especially in the case of parental incest. It is also the most common form.
Obviously algebra either you have been decensortised your self in terms of sexual abuse or you are a selfish unempathetic ignorant idiot wierdo.
Incest is not ok if you think it's ok. Just as detatching the limb off something inoccent is not ok if you think its ok.
It is obviously wrong and particularily in terms of a father towards his child.
I understand what your trying to say, that if you think something is ok than it's ok as our own moral laws are based on our subconciouse though there are other factors involved:
as is the evironment we grew up in that provide the foundation for what we percieve as being right and wrong, this incorporated with media, parental influence... etc.
Everyone has different perceptions of whats rite and wrong. if we all went around doing what we thought was rite and wrong than a few of the fucked up fucks would end up traumatising the clear minded others.
Obviously your view of rite and wrong is not right as you percieve incest as being acceptable and verbally degrading some woman you know nothing about. Ignorant generalising wanker, spinning cleshay crap at some woman that you don't even know... calling her a bitch.. what coz all women are bitches or only the ones that go up against your authority?
Lets re-wind the clock have you at 6 and (not to be disrespectful if you don't have one, if this is the case than use your imagination) your father who believes he has authority to do as he wishes with you as you are his own rapes you for the rest of your life untill you are old enough to escape his grasp. what this is ok because he thinks its ok than huh?

How about you go get your asshole and throat pumped and skwirted by two giant unwanted dicks than come back and talk to us.
Sounds to me like your one of those losers who need personal experience to understand.

This is a warning to all of you who post on this forum.

You will be banned either indefinitely or for a short time if you cannot debate without using obscenities and vulgar language.

Capice?

Now, carry on in a polite manner toward your fellow conspiracy theorists.

Thank you,
BA

Truthbetold
01-02-2010, 08:54 AM
I just threw in another example of a moral/ethical thing that has changed over time. If you or I was raised from birth to think of incest as a good thing I highly doubt you would question it as being wrong at all.

sarbu
01-02-2010, 03:06 PM
What does incest have to do with slavery anyway? do you really think any of us can be capable of judging right from wrong? canīt u see that the real truth is far beiond what society has tought us? it doesnt matter if you choose the religious or atheist aproach, the conclusion you get is most likely not important in the big picture, that is slavery by the way. because weather you seek help from God or choose to go your own way and rebel to the system, all of us fail to notice the lack of purpose to our existence..

Truthbetold
01-02-2010, 03:22 PM
the purpose is just what you choose it to be

sarbu
01-02-2010, 03:38 PM
choosing our purpose will always lead to chaos because of the variation of thought. we cannot think outside the box as we so much like to say. itīs just the way our mind works. our ideas are combinations derived from the knowlege gain during our existence. short as it is it cannot lead to great progress since we all take slightly different paths in our lives therefore there is no collective conciousness

Truthbetold
01-02-2010, 03:44 PM
you can only live this life based on the knowledge you accept, but you are right that we simply exist on this level

sarbu
01-02-2010, 05:05 PM
unfortunately a human only feels the need to take action in the presence of some tragic event. tragedy and fear is what generaly unites people. we tend to take sides among ourselves even though we are all in the same situation. some of us even claim to be preocupied with the fate of the human race as iīve seen in other posts, but what fate is that? what would be the future from their point of view? there are already more than six bilion from witch the ones that most multiply are the challanged ones. if they were to care so much for the future of the race some sort of selection would be needed . is it not true that we donīt really do anything besides fantasizing about a way out of this nonsense. when confronted with this perspective we donīt really have any answers. slavery (of the mind especially) is is the foundation of our society, and since we are products of the society what is there for us to choose? how can we find our identity by choosing a side in this charade?

BlueAngel
01-02-2010, 09:28 PM
I just threw in another example of a moral/ethical thing that has changed over time. If you or I was raised from birth to think of incest as a good thing I highly doubt you would question it as being wrong at all.

I highly doubt that anyone thinks of incest as a good thing even those who engage in it.

They know it is wrong.

Thus, the reason father's who sexually abuse their children threaten them, etc.

Truthbetold
01-03-2010, 03:57 AM
unfortunately a human only feels the need to take action in the presence of some tragic event. tragedy and fear is what generaly unites people. we tend to take sides among ourselves even though we are all in the same situation. some of us even claim to be preocupied with the fate of the human race as iīve seen in other posts, but what fate is that? what would be the future from their point of view? there are already more than six bilion from witch the ones that most multiply are the challanged ones. if they were to care so much for the future of the race some sort of selection would be needed . is it not true that we donīt really do anything besides fantasizing about a way out of this nonsense. when confronted with this perspective we donīt really have any answers. slavery (of the mind especially) is is the foundation of our society, and since we are products of the society what is there for us to choose? how can we find our identity by choosing a side in this charade?

U could try by simply taking care of one another :)

Truthbetold
01-03-2010, 03:59 AM
I highly doubt that anyone thinks of incest as a good thing even those who engage in it.

They know it is wrong.

Thus, the reason father's who sexually abuse their children threaten them, etc.

You might be right, but there will be no real answer to it, unless there is proof no such thing exists.

BlueAngel
01-03-2010, 06:18 PM
You might be right, but there will be no real answer to it, unless there is proof no such thing exists.

Your statement doesn't make any sense.

Truthbetold
01-04-2010, 04:37 AM
what i meant to say was, unless there is some place on earth where is incest is totally normal, and has been for ages. WE will never know the answer.

But let's end this discussion here, Incest is a sick thing to do, in our time and places.

BlueAngel
01-04-2010, 09:46 PM
what i meant to say was, unless there is some place on earth where is incest is totally normal, and has been for ages. WE will never know the answer.

But let's end this discussion here, Incest is a sick thing to do, in our time and places.

First you say, we will never know the answer as to whether or not incest is right and/or wrong and then you say it's a sick thing to do.

You sound confused.

Truthbetold
01-05-2010, 01:03 AM
First you say, we will never know the answer as to whether or not incest is right and/or wrong and then you say it's a sick thing to do.

You sound confused.

I personally think it is sick, but i dont know if all of humanity thinks that way.

Public Enemy Number One
01-05-2010, 07:02 AM
Huh?

I didn't say anything that equates to exactly what you are saying.

Thank goodness for that.

You are of the opinion that incest is only a sin or bad thing if you see it that way.

There's no other way to see it, pal unless you are the prepetrator.

Apparenlty, you do not know the difference between right and wrong.

Incest has nothing to do with perception.

It's wrong.

PERIOD!

Seek help.


Now you see the fruit of Atheism and Post-Modernism.

Can I make my point clearer? Since the Atheist and those who proscribe to Post-Modernism have NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD to base a moral/ethical system, MORALS AND ETHICS BECOME SIMPLY A MATTER OF **OPINION**!
That's right! That's what I have been saying all along. See, here in the United States are rights are based on the idea that they were endowed on us by our Creator-GOD! Since God gave us the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", no government or dictator can take them away. But once you cut God out of it, then just as right and wrong no longer exists, neither does any basis for you're rights to be "inalienable".
You CAN NOT be free if these rights are granted to you by a king, Congress, President Obama or by "The People". ONLY if these rights are acknowledged to come FROM GOD, and therefore INALIENABLE are they safe!
For years, Secularism, Post Modernism and Atheism have undercut the bedrock of public morality and our rights. We can NOT regain these by denying a Creator, nor by denying a system of morality. MORALS ARE NOT A MATTER OF OPINION! They are the "glue" that holds a sane society together.
We must ban together against Post-Modernism, Atheism and Situational Ethics. Only a sane, MORAL society who acknowledges the existence of a Creator who has endowed us with the unalienable rights mentioned in the Counstitution-only such a society can remain vibrant, strong and alive.

To qoute the Counstitution..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creatorwith certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ." The Declaration of Independence (http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/)

The Christian Apologist Josh Mcdowel defines Post Modernism as Josh McDowell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McDowell) & Bob Hostetler offer the following definition of postmodernism: “A worldview characterized by the belief that truth doesn’t exist in any objective sense but is created rather than discovered.” Truth is “created by the specific culture and exists only in that culture. Therefore, any system or statement that tries to communicate truth is a power play, an effort to dominate other cultures.”

a Link to the Wikipedia on Post Modernism: Postmodernism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism)

Truthbetold
01-05-2010, 08:22 AM
then why are Christian priests molesting children?

Public Enemy Number One
01-06-2010, 07:07 AM
then why are Christian priests molesting children?

Real simple: Because there NOT Christians. They are no more Christians because they go to Church then you would be a dog because you crawled into a doghouse once a week.
I'm not saying Christians don't have problems; they do. What I am saying, however, is a persons actions speak louder then there words. If you claim to be a follower of Christ yet molest children, not only are you a liar, but a disgusting pervert on top of it. Moreover, you WILL pay for it, both in the here and now and in the afterlife.
My second point is that no Christian or even psuedo-Christian would try to assert that it is all a matter of opinion. But Atheism and Moral Relavism DOES undercut morality and DOES allowe someone to make that argument.
I challenge ANYONE to open the Bible, either Old Testament or New Testament, and quote IN CONTEXT a passage that encourages molesting of innocent children. If you can, I will PERSONALLY write you a check for $2,000. U.S Dollars. Prove me wrong and show me where The Bible says it is okay to molest children and the money is yours.

Truthbetold
01-06-2010, 02:44 PM
I dont know if you are going to church, but if you mean what you state above, you know there is no need for a church to believe in a creator.

And you are wrong everything is a matter of opinion, you see the Christian "God' as the highest force while Buddisht see something very different.

So it's ALL a matter of opinion

jane doe
01-06-2010, 03:08 PM
So it's ALL a matter of opinion


I think it is a matter of weight given to experience. If we are open to any experience, without an est. religious external influence, would we worship the stars and sun? If we are directed by external influences, either pro or con, our experiences are influenced thereof. But I like the dialog...:)

Slavery was established for more than one reason and often slaves were as identifiable as the corporate office worker.

Truthbetold
01-06-2010, 03:22 PM
I think it is a matter of weight given to experience. If we are open to any experience, without an est. religious external influence, would we worship the stars and sun? If we are directed by external influences, either pro or con, our experiences are influenced thereof. But I like the dialog...:)

Slavery was established for more than one reason and often slaves were as identifiable as the corporate office worker.

Your message makes me very happy, I always tried to be as open as possible but i found out I wasnt as open as i found, more like being ignorant.

Slaves are bound, either by beliefs or by 'physical' shackles.

Public Enemy Number One
01-07-2010, 07:00 AM
I dont know if you are going to church, but if you mean what you state above, you know there is no need for a church to believe in a creator.


Of course you don't have to go to Church to believe in a Creator. The Scriuptures say that Satan and his demons believe in God, and tremble in fear because they KNOW there is a God. However, if you are implying that will give you salvation, you are incorrect. Satan and his demons, despite their belief in a Creator will burn in the Lake of Fire after the Great White Throne Judgement, for all eternity. So simply BELIEVING in a Creator will not save you.

And you are wrong everything is a matter of opinion, you see the Christian "God' as the highest force while Buddisht see something very different.

Yes, Buddha had some good things to say. However, as I understand it, Buddha was an agnostic. Unfortunately, as good as many of thing the Tathagata said were, he missed when he ignored God. There is only one Godhead which manifests itself in YHWH, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Oh, and you get only one shot at life. There is no reincarnation..after death, those who believed in the Message of the Good News will be saved, whereas the unbeliever will be cast into Hell.:)..
No other God exists, simple as that.

So it's ALL a matter of opinion

Nope. Buddha died and stayed dead. Jesus rose from the grave and was witnessed in his risen state by others, including the Apostles who all were murdered testifying to the resurrection of Jesus.

jane doe
01-07-2010, 09:24 AM
Nope. Buddha died and stayed dead. Jesus rose from the grave and was witnessed in his risen state by others, including the Apostles who all were murdered testifying to the resurrection of Jesus.

I'm not judgeing for or against any religious beliefs, but there are perspectives other than yours. This is one:

Buddha's physical body left it's "plasma/energy" body. The body and the energy did separate in his death, however, what constitutes a true death? All energy continues in one state or another if converted from "living". Buddha might not have been seen by his followers because he shed his physical existence; it was something he had as an objective with his spiritual practice. So, I agree Buddha's body stayed dead, but it was converted to the energy of another state. Many buddhists become food/fuel for other creatures. They are fed by chopping their remains and scattering them to vultures in Tibet's mountains. Their hearts aren't pumping beyond the normal 4 hours life continuance, but their energy is converted into food for living organisms.

Yes, Jesus continues to be seen by many in his energy-physical state. Buddha continues to exist in many forms of energy, as well. I don't know whether Buddha has been seen by any though. I'll check into it though. :)

sarbu
01-07-2010, 01:03 PM
Now you see the fruit of Atheism and Post-Modernism.

Can I make my point clearer? Since the Atheist and those who proscribe to Post-Modernism have NO OBJECTIVE STANDARD to base a moral/ethical system, MORALS AND ETHICS BECOME SIMPLY A MATTER OF **OPINION**!
That's right! That's what I have been saying all along. See, here in the United States are rights are based on the idea that they were endowed on us by our Creator-GOD! Since God gave us the right to "life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness", no government or dictator can take them away. But once you cut God out of it, then just as right and wrong no longer exists, neither does any basis for you're rights to be "inalienable".
You CAN NOT be free if these rights are granted to you by a king, Congress, President Obama or by "The People". ONLY if these rights are acknowledged to come FROM GOD, and therefore INALIENABLE are they safe!
For years, Secularism, Post Modernism and Atheism have undercut the bedrock of public morality and our rights. We can NOT regain these by denying a Creator, nor by denying a system of morality. MORALS ARE NOT A MATTER OF OPINION! They are the "glue" that holds a sane society together.
We must ban together against Post-Modernism, Atheism and Situational Ethics. Only a sane, MORAL society who acknowledges the existence of a Creator who has endowed us with the unalienable rights mentioned in the Counstitution-only such a society can remain vibrant, strong and alive.

To qoute the Counstitution..."We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creatorwith certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness ." The Declaration of Independence (http://www.ushistory.org/declaration/document/)

The Christian Apologist Josh Mcdowel defines Post Modernism as Josh McDowell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josh_McDowell) & Bob Hostetler offer the following definition of postmodernism: “A worldview characterized by the belief that truth doesn’t exist in any objective sense but is created rather than discovered.” Truth is “created by the specific culture and exists only in that culture. Therefore, any system or statement that tries to communicate truth is a power play, an effort to dominate other cultures.”

a Link to the Wikipedia on Post Modernism: Postmodernism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postmodernism)

Pardon my insolence, but how is cristianity any different from any other culture. it has more or less a "date of birth", it was only spread thruout the world by denial and opression of other beliefs, it seems to be the center of amlost any conspiracy theory regarding the new world order and similar mind controling techniques... i most certainly have my doubts regarding this subject. Any moral decision should come to us naturaly and not be imposed by some cultural fenomenon, but the fact is we donīt know what the hell we are doing. So i ask of you: in lack of an obvious reason, do we or do we not seek guidance amongst the ones living next to us? Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion, it has the same value since it was presented to you by an institution and not by God himself. and letīs be onest.. are you capable of understanding anything at all from the Bible without taking in consideration somekind of interpretation?
excuse me if i donīt make miself perfectlty understood... the english language is not my own..

Public Enemy Number One
01-07-2010, 02:26 PM
[quote=sarbu;64318]Pardon my insolence, but how is cristianity any different from any other culture. it has more or less a "date of birth", it was only spread thruout the world by denial and opression of other beliefs, it seems to be the center of amlost any conspiracy theory regarding the new world order and similar mind controling techniques... i most certainly have my doubts regarding this subject. Any moral decision should come to us naturaly and not be imposed by some cultural fenomenon, but the fact is we donīt know what the hell we are doing. So i ask of you: in lack of an obvious reason, do we or do we not seek guidance amongst the ones living next to us? Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion, it has the same value since it was presented to you by an institution and not by God himself. and letīs be onest.. are you capable of understanding anything at all from the Bible without taking in consideration somekind of interpretation?



Let's take your remarks piece by piece:

You say our beliefs should come naturally and not from social phenomena. Well, Ma'm or Sir, THAT belief, that says it should come naturally and not from society WAS given to you by a culture. In fact, the very characters you are using to express that opinion is from a culture (An English speaking one).
YOU may not "know what the hell" you are doing, but I Sir or Ma'm, most certainly do. I am ennunciating the thoughts and beliefs that have developed through thousands of years of Judeo-Christian culture. These serve as the bedrock, in many ways, for Western culture.
You English is far better then many native born to that language:D. Perhaps, if you are in a Western country, you may choose to peruse books on our culture. It will show you in unmistakable terms that Judaism and Christianity have contributed HUGELY to Western ideas, philosophies and intellectual history.
Secondly, you say that quote " Stating that the Bible is truly the word of God doesnīt give you an excuse to your way of life, or by the way to undermine another opinion." You are incorrect, Sir or Ma'am. The Bill of Rights do:

The Bill of Rights says : ( Link :The Bill of Rights - Text Version | Freedom Documents (http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/freedom/bill/text.html))
Article III

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.



In fact, religious speech is protected in the United States of America. You can see the case law on it here:FindLaw: U.S. Constitution: First Amendment: Annotations pg. 5 of 21 (http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/data/constitution/amendment01/05.html#1)


''The Free Exercise Clause . . . withdraws from legislative power, state and federal, the exertion of any restraint on the free exercise of religion. Its purpose is to secure religious liberty in the individual by prohibiting any invasions there by civil authority.'' 178 It bars ''governmental regulation of religious beliefs as such,'' 179 prohibiting misuse of secular governmental programs ''to impede the observance of one or all religions or . . . to discriminate invidiously between religions . . . even though the burden may be characterized as being only indirect.'' 180 Freedom of conscience is the basis of the free exercise clause, and government may not penalize or discriminate against an individual or a group of individuals because of their religious views nor may it compel persons to affirm any particular beliefs. 181 Interpretation is complicated, however, by the fact that exercise of religion usually entails ritual or other practices that constitute ''conduct'' rather than pure ''belief.'' When it comes to protecting conduct as free exercise, the Court has been inconsistent. 182 It has long been held that the Free Exercise Clause does not necessarily prevent government from requiring the doing of some act or forbidding the doing of some act merely because religious beliefs underlie the conduct in question. 183 What has changed over the years is the Court's willingness to hold that some religiously motivated conduct is protected from generally applicable prohibitions.

Therefore, by Article III of the Bill of Rights and by the law "'The Free Exercise Clause . . . withdraws from legislative power, state and federal, the exertion of any restraint on the free exercise of religion. Its purpose is to secure religious liberty in the individual by prohibiting any invasions there by civil authority.'' 178 It bars ''governmental regulation of religious beliefs as such,''. That means IO can express my opinion on religious issues and am empowered to use my free speech to speak on religious issues any way I want to. It also means I can stand outside a Mousque or Temple and protest, or urinate on a stack of Qurans if I want to, just as others have burned the American Flag or spat apoun returning soldiers (as they did on the Vietnam War calling them "baby killers")

Moreover, I have exercised my right to bear arms, so I have an AK-47 (or Avtomat Kalashnikova) (AK-47 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AK-47)) and a Glock 9 milimeter. What this means is anyone who tries to stop me through violence gets sprayed with bullets.
So you see, yes I have the right to express, preach and live my religion and no, you can't stop me as long as I am alive..SO if you need to silence me, get a gang of thugs with assault rifles and KILL ME.

sarbu
01-07-2010, 03:36 PM
By all means you should follow whatever belief you chose, however freedom of speech is not freedom of thought. i come from an eastern culture that is highly orthodox, witch i think is a preety conservative and old version of cristianity, that by the time it has sperad to the US it already took somewhat of a different shape. i DO NOT blame you for choosing to follow GOD, since it should be of utter importance to our existence. however the way you do that is reason for argument. why put so much value in projecting your "knowlege" since it was so manipulated? clearly man was as long as we know into being superior, so many models of a better society have emerged thruout history that i canīt really be sure if anything is for real today. FAITH is important, but should we confuse our being afraid and irracional with having the knowlege and tools to change our fate,to be redeemed for our sins? you can call me Horatio, since that would be an acurate translation from latin of my name. i certainly have to respect your opinion because i also believe that this right belongs to us all, but this is an open discussion where we can express ourselves freely, so no offence, and i sincerly hope i can learn something with this.

sarbu
01-07-2010, 04:03 PM
Sometimes i think how this whole story is ridiculous. it sufices that someone has a different opinion and from nowhere they fall into some cathegory from atheist to stupid.. whatever, since they arenīt with us they are against us. stop for a moment and think about it. isnīt this one of the reasons we hate so much the world we live in, and have been living for as long as we can remember, or should i say we are permited to remember? we seek sides even though we confrount ourselves with the same issues (it is true though that some donīt get that far or donīt have time for it). it is amazing how we accept problems that donīt exist to ocupy our minds from the ones that truly matter. everything is relative and somehow irrelevant from the liberty of speech to the pursuit of happiness if you come to think of it.

Truthbetold
01-09-2010, 04:47 AM
Of course you don't have to go to Church to believe in a Creator. The Scriuptures say that Satan and his demons believe in God, and tremble in fear because they KNOW there is a God. However, if you are implying that will give you salvation, you are incorrect. Satan and his demons, despite their belief in a Creator will burn in the Lake of Fire after the Great White Throne Judgement, for all eternity. So simply BELIEVING in a Creator will not save you.

IF you know a little about Satanism, you would know they believe that satan/lucifer is higher than yahweh, and no i dont consider myself a satanist. They believe lucifer is higher because there's no forbidden knowledge in their religion, unlike in Christianity.

Also, did you know that the whole idea of Jezus was corrupted by the Roman elite, so while Jezus was a good man, the scriptures have changed many times by the hands of other man, so they became corrupted.

by looking at the bible as the one source of truth you're missing out so much information.

Yes, Buddha had some good things to say. However, as I understand it, Buddha was an agnostic. Unfortunately, as good as many of thing the Tathagata said were, he missed when he ignored God. There is only one Godhead which manifests itself in YHWH, Jesus and the Holy Spirit.
Oh, and you get only one shot at life. There is no reincarnation..

after death, those who believed in the Message of the Good News will be saved, whereas the unbeliever will be cast into Hell.:)..
No other God exists, simple as that.
How do you know you only get one shot? There a numerous accounts of people remebering past lives.

So it's ALL a matter of opinion

Nope. Buddha died and stayed dead. Jesus rose from the grave and was witnessed in his risen state by others, including the Apostles who all were murdered testifying to the resurrection of Jesus.

if you believe in something, you can't see everything with your eyes

Cazbat
01-12-2010, 05:10 AM
Sorry to put this thread back on topic, but I just wanted to say "slavery is not dead" its just disguised as min wage and call centres. Need I say any more me and my BF are corporate slaves for them to keep the roof over our heads.

BlueAngel
01-12-2010, 09:04 PM
Sorry to put this thread back on topic, but I just wanted to say "slavery is not dead" its just disguised as min wage and call centres. Need I say any more me and my BF are corporate slaves for them to keep the roof over our heads.

Don't be sorry about putting this thread back on topic, you made a very good point.

EireEngineer
01-19-2010, 06:51 PM
Sorry to put this thread back on topic, but I just wanted to say "slavery is not dead" its just disguised as min wage and call centres. Need I say any more me and my BF are corporate slaves for them to keep the roof over our heads.
Are the people that work for minimum wage, or in call centers for that matter, lead in chains to work everyday? The reason that there are low paying jobs is simple. In a market economy there is a market clearing price for all goods and services, labor included. The value of labor is equal to the value added to the employer. It cannot be any other way, unless you are to assume that a command economy, with some form of philosopher kings wisely setting prices, is achievable. At least in western style economies these individuals can improve their position.

jane doe
01-20-2010, 08:39 AM
At least in western style economies these individuals can improve their position.

I agree. There are many rags-to-riches stories for business owners.

Cazbat
01-20-2010, 12:05 PM
Are the people that work for minimum wage, or in call centers for that matter, lead in chains to work everyday?

Hahaha

I might as well be to be honest, I have to basically put my hand up to go to the toilet and if its not at the computer generated times for my break then they have a go about it and mark one of my stats down bad schedule adherence, this goes for the same as if I am on a call and my break is due and I am unable to take it on time, this leads to no bonus. The funny thing about all of this is that a computer make the decision on when peoples breaks are and it schedules them in to be 15mins after your last one at times then making you work 3 hours 45 mins without another one this is stupid.

I didn't realize that to conform as slavery you had to be chained up and whipped to produce more work. Does SMS class in your definition as slavery?

I believe that my job is under paid and this is due to location in the North East of England all jobs are pretty much the lowest in their field as to the south of England and call centre jobs are the modern slave labor in my opinion millions of people work in them for min wage and are treated with as minimal human rights as possible as they don't look upon a call centre agent as being human we are only a computer to them.

Truthbetold
01-20-2010, 12:31 PM
Hahaha

I might as well be to be honest, I have to basically put my hand up to go to the toilet and if its not at the computer generated times for my break then they have a go about it and mark one of my stats down bad schedule adherence, this goes for the same as if I am on a call and my break is due and I am unable to take it on time, this leads to no bonus. The funny thing about all of this is that a computer make the decision on when peoples breaks are and it schedules them in to be 15mins after your last one at times then making you work 3 hours 45 mins without another one this is stupid.

I didn't realize that to conform as slavery you had to be chained up and whipped to produce more work. Does SMS class in your definition as slavery?

I believe that my job is under paid and this is due to location in the North East of England all jobs are pretty much the lowest in their field as to the south of England and call centre jobs are the modern slave labor in my opinion millions of people work in them for min wage and are treated with as minimal human rights as possible as they don't look upon a call centre agent as being human we are only a computer to them.

then why are you even working there... I could find that kind of job if I wanted to, but there are much more lucrative jobs

Cazbat
01-20-2010, 12:56 PM
Took it as a quick fix to pay the bills after being made redundant from my last job and I'm looking for a better job as we speak. But there are not a lot about at the moment in my area.

Truthbetold
01-20-2010, 01:07 PM
Took it as a quick fix to pay the bills after being made redundant from my last job and I'm looking for a better job as we speak. But there are not a lot about at the moment in my area.


well good luck to you, I hope you find a proper one :D

Cazbat
01-20-2010, 01:12 PM
That will be when me and my BF set up our own pottery business. :D

Truthbetold
01-20-2010, 01:21 PM
That will be when me and my BF set up our own pottery business. :D

interesting, you and your BF are gonna run that all alone?

Cazbat
01-20-2010, 01:24 PM
Yeah he has a masters degree in ceramics and we are just gonna start off small and see where it takes us maybe ebaying to begin with and craft fairs. The dream is to be our own boss eventually.

EireEngineer
01-20-2010, 05:52 PM
I agree. There are many rags-to-riches stories for business owners.
And for those who dont own businesses as well. I went from a poor kid in Cork to a business owner myself, but it was not without having to tolerate many years of working for others.

BlueAngel
01-21-2010, 12:38 AM
Slavery exists in the US and abroad.

It's immoral indency is unveiled MAINLY through the use of child labor abroad such as in commnist CHINA who has no problem poisoning us with the products they CHEAPLY produce for US corporations and US corporations who have no problem using child labor in communist countries such as CHINA to produce their products for them and who poison us in the process.

Communist CHINA?

Yep.

Go figure.

Figure the monetary aspect and therein lies the answer as to why American corporations do business with a COMMUNIST country.

BlueAngel
01-21-2010, 12:40 AM
And for those who dont own businesses as well. I went from a poor kid in Cork to a business owner myself, but it was not without having to tolerate many years of working for others.

Even though your father was a rocket scientist, you were poor?

Geez.

Talk about slave labor.

What type of business do you own?

Truthbetold
01-21-2010, 04:03 AM
Yeah he has a masters degree in ceramics and we are just gonna start off small and see where it takes us maybe ebaying to begin with and craft fairs. The dream is to be our own boss eventually.

better get up your internetmarketing skills then :)

Cazbat
01-25-2010, 11:12 AM
And for those who dont own businesses as well. I went from a poor kid in Cork to a business owner myself, but it was not without having to tolerate many years of working for others.

What Business do you own?

Pruner Man
01-29-2010, 07:23 PM
Hi- ran a heating business and applicance repair service for a number of years- a lot of work and the job is never over untill you are paid!
Keeping proper books and giveing the government their regular tax cut was demanding- I am so glad I am retired though we saved little but we raised a family and have our own home
..and trying to live on a limited income is a challenge but I am an old hippy - no fear :)
The Matrix is all around- many people are slaves
I enjoy what God has given me - hope you do too
yrs
PM

Pruner Man
01-29-2010, 07:31 PM
Re Clay Business
If you are artistically inclined the market is there. Done a bit myself in art school and a bit of low fire also.
I like lapidary and rock hounding and get a bit of side cash working on motorcycles , pruning , collecting recycles , selling trash to treasures
I have sold stuff also at farmers markets- fun
good luck

EireEngineer
01-30-2010, 01:01 AM
What Business do you own?
Small electronics manufacturer and design shop here in Denver. I would be more specific but who needs Blue Angel taking down their website lol.

EireEngineer
01-30-2010, 01:04 AM
Even though your father was a rocket scientist, you were poor?

Geez.

Talk about slave labor.

What type of business do you own?
Not that its any of your business, but my parents split when I was 4 and got back together when I was 14, so yeah.

Pruner Man
01-30-2010, 06:56 AM
then why are Christian priests molesting children?
Because they are not christian and they will be judged
incidentally the Bible says: 'call no man father' which is what the Catholic cult does in direct opposition to Christ in the Bible
There are a lot of pseudo 'Christians ' sucking off the weak and ignorant
Christ said
You must be born again and you will know them by their fruits
figure it out- the biggest conspiracy is the devil masquerading as an angel of light to fool the masses

Pruner Man
01-30-2010, 07:03 AM
Slavery exists in the US and abroad.

It's immoral indency is unveiled MAINLY through the use of child labor abroad such as in commnist CHINA who has no problem poisoning us with the products they CHEAPLY produce for US corporations and US corporations who have no problem using child labor in communist countries such as CHINA to produce their products for them and who poison us in the process.

Communist CHINA?

Yep.

Go figure.

Figure the monetary aspect and therein lies the answer as to why American corporations do business with a COMMUNIST country.

Those Corporations have the moral integrity of a dog in heat
But then again the politicians let them take our jobs and industry offshore for the shareholders dividends who might be living next door
I think the military industry is more guilty of stealing the future of a nation and impoverishing youngsters by purchasing more and more killing machines

Pruner Man
01-30-2010, 07:10 AM
Also, did you know that the whole idea of Jezus was corrupted by the Roman elite, so while Jezus was a good man, the scriptures have changed many times by the hands of other man, so they became corrupted.

by looking at the bible as the one source of truth you're missing out so much information.
If the Bible is a corrupted as you say then so is your God:( who wrote it.
My God does not make mistakes and knows the end from the beginning and can keep the Bible correct through the centuries so that we can totally rely on it for comfort
The Devil said in the first temptation to Eve:
'Has God said?'
He always cast doubt on God and the Bible- sad that you are falling for that too:cool:

Truthbetold
01-30-2010, 07:39 AM
Because they are not christian and they will be judged
incidentally the Bible says: 'call no man father' which is what the Catholic cult does in direct opposition to Christ in the Bible
There are a lot of pseudo 'Christians ' sucking off the weak and ignorant
Christ said
You must be born again and you will know them by their fruits
figure it out- the biggest conspiracy is the devil masquerading as an angel of light to fool the masses

ill always found it strange to label an creator with human thoughtstuctures
There are numerous adaptations and changes made to the christian bible, all claiming to have to one truth.

I dont need a bible to know right from wrong, I listen to the voice within.
The creator is all around us, in every entity, substance and plant

Pruner Man
01-30-2010, 05:04 PM
ill always found it strange to label an creator with human thoughtstuctures
There are numerous adaptations and changes made to the christian bible, all claiming to have to one truth.

I dont need a bible to know right from wrong, I listen to the voice within.
The creator is all around us, in every entity, substance and plant

Awake sleeper-the heart is deceitful above all things- you need to know what God did for you in the Bible and in actuality through Christ.
The Creator's handiwork is all around us- no one has an excuse as to His existence but we are commanded to know what he has done for us through Christ- He bought our salvation.
Ignore that fact to your peril.
He said 'you shall know the truth[ Christ] and the truth shall make you free' -if you accept that gift.
To not accept that offer is to reject your greatest need - fellowship with God.

BlueAngel
01-31-2010, 03:23 PM
Small electronics manufacturer and design shop here in Denver. I would be more specific but who needs Blue Angel taking down their website lol.

I don't take down websites.

I help manage them.

LOL!

Pruner Man
01-31-2010, 10:29 PM
I don't take down websites.

I help manage them.

LOL!

well I really like this one!
no fat woman squeezing their belly fat
no measly muscle men
no ego avatars
no blips
no blams
no slide ads
no pop words
thnk you:)
pm

upagainstit
02-14-2010, 10:47 AM
This thread originally started from a post by Algebra. To do with a state of
freedom.

There isn't likely a "pure" state that you could be, in that would be seen as
having freedom in yourself, being, are. Algebra, didn't outright say "pure",
but that appears to be "what" was looked for. (?)

There are all kinds of "states" around that one could be seen in. Past, present
and no doubt future. Someone that is not one of these people referred to
would not really have a voice in "how" it can be seen for them.

It would all have to be in relation to your perspective of the here and now,
as one there in that position.

You could see yourself "bound" and not free. You could also see yourself
"bound" and be free of your "binds". It would be in your "relating" your now
to yourself, one way or the other.

The result would be: you see yourself not free OR you see yourself free.
Wouldn't be subject to anothers' opinion from somewhere else or even there.
Would be "how" you and you alone see it.

upagainstit
02-14-2010, 11:06 AM
This thread got away from it's original post.

Outright there were stands taken by most posters seeing themselves as in the "right" on an issue to do with incest. Going the: that's that way on the matter
Failing to simply "comprehend" what Algebra was relating to them.

The discourse appeared to have fallen victim to "closed-mindedness".

Unfortunate.

upagainstit
02-14-2010, 11:13 AM
Later on in this thread the "referring" to what freedom is, got taken to the
workplace. Straightway minumum wage-earners were taken up with thier
meager earnings as being something like slave labour.

You posters seemed to have a "sensitive" spot for such posts in such way.

My posts in this thread are my "minds' worth" from having read this thread.

BlueAngel
08-09-2010, 09:28 PM
not to stick it in your face.


edit to add: Slavery is just an allusion as well as freedom.

Did you mean illusion?

FYI, jane doe.

If you believe that freedom is an illusion; you should then be intelligent enough to know that without freedom, slavery exists.

jane doe
08-10-2010, 09:01 AM
Did you mean illusion?

FYI, jane doe.

If you believe that freedom is an illusion; you should then be intelligent enough to know that without freedom, slavery exists.

there is a state of bardo as well. I know of the word allusion, but do not see the word illusion.

BlueAngel
08-10-2010, 08:34 PM
there is a state of bardo as well. I know of the word allusion, but do not see the word illusion.

I suggest you look above at your comment and you will see the word ILLUSION.

jane doe
08-11-2010, 08:20 AM
I suggest you look above at your comment and you will see the word ILLUSION.

It's not true in your case.

galexander
08-14-2010, 04:27 AM
If you're a low wage earner in the States it may well look like you're just some form of exploited slave. The situation in the US is far worse than the UK because the economy is geared so differently. The way the economy is managed in the US is just asking for more and more exploitation of 'wage-slaves'.

Its just so common for people in the US, and this can include people in the middle-class as well, to find themselves with not enough money to pay the monthly bills and being forced to work weekends and at nights. Despite the American Dream many US citizens not only don't own their own home but are forced to live in trailer parks.

However I think the full extent of wage-slavery is actually far worse than this and far more insidious.

There is a huge amount of pressure on children at school to become socially useful units of society and this 'socialist-like' programming is at the complete expense of the individual. They teach children how to be respectful of their so-called betters and in this regard they become regimented. They also instil a sense of unquestioning social compliance.

Governments at the end of the day don't seem to care about individuals and their proper development, all that matters is that the limited funds of tax payers money were well spent and that they got their money's worth.

jane doe
08-14-2010, 08:10 AM
Working weekends and nights is a 'slavery' trait??

galexander
08-14-2010, 10:23 AM
Working weekends and nights is a 'slavery' trait??

Yes, wage-slavery.

Apart from, that is, wearing iron manacles and have lash marks on your back of course.

jane doe
08-14-2010, 05:42 PM
Are night hunters slaves too?

galexander
08-15-2010, 04:52 AM
Are night hunters slaves too?

And what is a 'night hunter'?

jane doe
08-15-2010, 09:20 AM
And what is a 'night hunter'?

People who attempt to kill during night. People who carry baggage are slaves, moreso than wage earners, imo.

BlueAngel
08-16-2010, 07:39 PM
It's not true in your case.

As per usual, your comment doesn't make any sense.

galexander
08-17-2010, 11:46 AM
People who attempt to kill during night. People who carry baggage are slaves, moreso than wage earners, imo.

Do you actually know of anyone who is a night hunter j.d.?

Where did you first hear about this?

galexander
08-22-2010, 04:43 AM
Are you still there j.d.?

A night hunter hasn't got the better of you have they?

jane doe
08-22-2010, 07:34 AM
Are you still there j.d.?

A night hunter hasn't got the better of you have they?

yes, I still log onto the forum, phalangally, and make posts.

yes, two black night hunters have me under their control. they are scotty terrier puppies sleeping at my feat. :)

we are slaves to each others' freedom.

galexander
08-24-2010, 11:58 AM
yes, I still log onto the forum, phalangally, and make posts.

yes, two black night hunters have me under their control. they are scotty terrier puppies sleeping at my feat. :)

we are slaves to each others' freedom.

The following wasn't a quote from Nietzsche was it?

we are slaves to each others' freedom.

jane doe
08-24-2010, 04:25 PM
I dunno, I type which I express, first. If I cannot express, I study then type.

galexander
08-25-2010, 12:08 PM
I dunno, I type which I express, first. If I cannot express, I study then type.

You never did explain your cryptic reference to "night hunters".

jane doe
08-25-2010, 12:42 PM
You never did explain your cryptic reference to "night hunters".

Stop thinking so much, the chemical imbalance will eat your freedom.

beko
01-03-2011, 11:33 PM
yes it does, we are salves to our self, our work and our country ,ie taxes, schools, work ins or just ins, the list is long but this is just a short form.

realworldmatrix
01-13-2011, 01:14 PM
Would you agree that slavery still exists? and would you accept that you are a slave?

What if you were convinced that you are free when actually your the property of the government that rules your country.

So what is it that makes us feel like were free in our current society in the first place. Our ability to choose our own carier path. Our ability to Earn money and then buy what ever we want with it.

The problem i have with this is. Money itself is created by the government. It costs them nothing to produce. Then when you get a job and start earning it they take it back off you again. Meaning that in essence you've actually been working for free.

Lets say you buy a car. The money go's to the dealer who pays his bills and taxes with it which sends it strait back in to the hands of the people who made it in the first place. The Government. Its the same for everything you can imagine spending your money on.

So buy using money. Are they creating a false sense of freedom. Whilst all along using us as slaves to expand there own intrests?

Let me know what you think and if you can think of any other tools of false freedom.

YES SLAVERY STILL EXISTS ... ...and you are "plugged" into it, like a cog in the wheel...or better yet, like a battery is plugged into the Leontief Matrix...you know that software program that runs the IRS mainframe, better known as the IRS wargames computer.

This response is dedicated to teaching people, specifically you, about the International Right of Self-Determination.


Since THE MATRIX movie was released in 1999, the word Matrix has come to mean a trap or web …a technological program of slavery and control. Although you may sense this is true, most people don’t know “what it is”. The reason you don’t know is because you have never been shown the Real-World matrix. For instance, the Movies are (most likely) named after a Mathematical Program created in 1958 by Wassily Leontief.



Who was Wassily Leontief?


Leontief was born in Munich, Germany in the year 1905.
He was a mathematician who used an 81x81matrix of quadratic equations to solve for every variable of input and output data in the United States economy. For this he won a Nobel Prize. Since that time…a basis software program was created and runs inside the IRS and global banking computers.
That program is called the LEONTIEF MATRIX.


This Mathematical Matrix is about an energy transfer using current-See and your Account-ability. Therefore; banking becomes the primary [accounting] business on the Planet and involves regulation by treaties and global agreements.


These agreements create the rules that control most of the details of your life…where/when you work; how you get food, water and energy to use.



Remember--Neo was told he was born a slave and most people when shown the Real Matrix; they do the same thing that Neo did….they either reject it or want to revolt.


But, THE MATRIX was not about remaining a slave and Revolution was/is not the Solution. THE MATRIX movies were about changing the agreement and then separating from THE MATRIX in peace.


And that is what you people must do, CHANGE.



When are "you" going to step into the "real world" and except that what is occurring today, was planned over 200 years ago??? When are you going to admit that "you" have been lied to "your entire life"? When are "you" going to "break the collusion" with "their system" and "come out of her my people"????


Trinity told YOU,... "They are watching"

...and they will be coming. IN FACT, they are watching me as I type right now.

The chains that bind you come from your own agreements, and contracts, which form the rules and laws. As Morpheus told Neo, the Matrix is governed by rules, and being "plugged-in" you are bound by those rules.

-Neo


realworldmatrix.com

beko
01-13-2011, 01:25 PM
how so true are your words, yes we are being watched monitored, recorded video taped photo and digitally filed, as soon as you make a call type a word send an email or tweet, some were it is being stored are we free? think aging we are slaves no if and or buts, any time you use a credit card bank card or write a check you are part of the matrix use cash, your still funding it.:eek:

realworldmatrix
01-13-2011, 01:56 PM
The answer is....."to take responsibility" and "create something new". A new governance, a new paradigm.....or "a new world of order (or form of order)". But, based on the "individual" form concept of this universe, versus the "great link" of "wherever" "we" "came from".....'we must take on and accept the responsibility of the In-form-ation" and learn how to be "in the world" but not of "the (chaotic) world". Ancient script says to "be ye separate". The Declaration of Independence says "to assume your SEPARATE AND EQUAL STATION among the POWERS of the Earth". We are on Earth....and most people are not empowered (in power) because they are lazy and want to be told what to do by someone else...so that they don't have to take "responsibility" (the ability to respond...with the ultimate energy of love).

brains
02-09-2011, 07:40 AM
i think that wherever slavery exists the government should be notified to put an end to it:)

beko
02-09-2011, 11:10 AM
but what if the gov you report it to is the slave master.

brains
02-10-2011, 08:23 AM
the canadian government does not tolerate this type of behavior:)

beko
02-10-2011, 11:27 AM
well i hope it stays that way down is the usa we are all slaves or slave masters, long days work little pay, sometimes no or short days work big bucks, and we have fancy titles labor skilled laborer blue collar white collar then there is the corporate slaves that i have meet but just a few one ceo and cfo just to get my slave pay.

brains
02-10-2011, 02:07 PM
well i hope it stays that way down is the usa we are all slaves or slave masters, long days work little pay, sometimes no or short days work big bucks, and we have fancy titles labor skilled laborer blue collar white collar then there is the corporate slaves that i have meet but just a few one ceo and cfo just to get my slave pay.you get that all over why dont you head over to some of the other threads and start posting you seem to be stuck on this one:)