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The Poet
03-18-2010, 02:00 PM
In your opinion, has society became more cynical or just simply more aware?

Have you ever learned something about a person or society that you wish to God you never knew? Had an experience you wish you never had?

I think this song beautifully represents that. I just wish one generation could go through life without having to loose it to war or just the various pychopaths on the streets or the world.

YouTube - Don Henley - The end of the innocence



Here's the lyrics:

The End of the Innocence - Don Henley
Remember when the days were long
And rolled beneath a deep blue sky
Didn't have a care in the world
With mommy and daddy standin' by (Yup, I remember that..too bad things change)
But "happily ever after" fails
And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales
The lawyers dwell on small details
Since daddy had to fly
But I know a place where we can go
That's still untouched by men
We'll sit and watch the clouds roll by
And the tall grass wave in the wind
You can lay your head back on the ground
And let your hair fall all around me
Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence
O beautiful, for spacious skies
But now those skies are threatening
They're beating plowshares into swords (Why is it that every war is the last war, but they always find an excuse to murder more people..wierd)
For this tired old man that we elected king
Armchair warriors often fail
And we've been poisoned by these fairy tales
The lawyers clean up all details
Since daddy had to lie
But I know a place where we can go
And wash away this sin
We'll sit and watch the clouds roll by
And the tall grass wave in the wind
Just lay your head back on the ground
And let your hair spill all around me
Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence
Who knows how long this will last
Now we've come so far, so fast
But, somewhere back there in the dust
That same small town in each of us
I need to remember this
So baby give me just one kiss
And let me take a long last look
Before we say goodbye ( Sigh, nothing lasts forever)

Just lay your head back on the ground
And let your hair fall all around me
Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence

Another good song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RHIIATt0BaM&feature=related

oneview
03-18-2010, 04:03 PM
You appear to be "remorsefull", for some reason.

Wishing somehow better for......
but where is the reality of it?

Where is, burying oneself, in some kind of dreamworld?

One can do, what one itself, can do.
There is no other guy, to wait on.

jane doe
03-18-2010, 06:20 PM
One can do, what one itself, can do.
There is no other guy, to wait on.

All of reality is potentially the subject of one's dream. Your post reminds me of the masses of Christians who wait for the return of Jesus Christ. Some have become so attached, I believe their prayerfulness will create the human part brought to the brink, which is more sad than to ponder the power to change for the better.

Poet, parts of society have developed cooperation, change and forgiveness. Forgiveness helps one let go of the knowledge learned thru suffering.

Today the posts of many people feel sad. I hope happiness finds the morrow and surrounds you.

oneview
03-19-2010, 06:51 AM
All of reality is potentially the subject of one's dream. Your post reminds me of the masses of Christians who wait for the return of Jesus Christ. Some have become so attached, I believe their prayerfulness will create the human part brought to the brink, which is more sad than to ponder the power to change for the better.

Poet, parts of society have developed cooperation, change and forgiveness. Forgiveness helps one let go of the knowledge learned thru suffering.

Today the posts of many people feel sad. I hope happiness finds the morrow and surrounds you.

Am along the lines of a "realist".
Not waiting for the return of JC or any other being. Am expecting events in
particular to unfold.
Am attached to my outlook and detached from the world around.
No dream world or any kind of fantasy.
Don't aimlessly speculate.
Mind over matter plays a big part in my outlook.

jane doe
03-19-2010, 07:45 AM
But isn't the place within the mind, which has control over matter, the same place where dreams are formed? What would differentiate the form of a "mind's dream" over the "mind's control [over matter]"? Don't they both involve the mind, focusing desires into tangibility, dedication and repetition?

oneview
03-19-2010, 10:18 AM
But isn't the place within the mind, which has control over matter, the same place where dreams are formed? What would differentiate the form of a "mind's dream" over the "mind's control [over matter]"? Don't they both involve the mind, focusing desires into tangibility, dedication and repetition?

The difference seems to be, the state in which you would be.
Dream-like, fantasy, compared to more reality-like.

oneview
03-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Am along the lines of a "realist".
Not waiting for the return of JC or any other being. Am expecting events in
particular to unfold.
Am attached to my outlook and detached from the world around.
No dream world or any kind of fantasy.
Don't aimlessly speculate.
Mind over matter plays a big part in my outlook.

In reference to "mind over matter" - not in a literal way of speaking.
Along the lines of - prevailing sway.

jane doe
03-19-2010, 12:51 PM
So is a fixed outlook innocent, in your opinion?



The mind is a sail
which cannot fail
nor faulter in stillness and gale.

The forces of hell
which ring like a bell
are fixed without a yoke
while the mouth is repelled.


(bad poetry day)

oneview
03-19-2010, 01:09 PM
So is a fixed outlook innocent, in your opinion?...

Don't understand the question.

jane doe
03-20-2010, 06:30 AM
Am attached to my outlook and detached from the world around.
No dream world or any kind of fantasy.
Don't aimlessly speculate.
Mind over matter plays a big part in my outlook.

I placed the first two sentences as a foundation/defining characteristics for the individual writing the poem. Then I focused on the next phrase and presumed the writer continued a discussion of his traits. Placing the understood subject as, "I" don't aimlessly speculate. "My" mind over matter plays a big part in my outlook.

My interpretation was 'speculate with intent/an aim. That which mind creates is that which I seek outward.

So, I wondered if the goals are independant of god source to the writer, thus innocent from man's hand ruling over god's. In my opinion an individual who seeks to estabilish a goal has methods for doing thus, eliminating the god factor completely. So, with the objectives of the poets mind, are fixed outlooks innocent...without burden?

kerry
03-20-2010, 01:15 PM
every generation ends up in a war the evidence of this if you think back
11 major wars from ww1 to ww2 to this war on global terror. counting
the small wars in between each of the big wars.. when you get a wife and
lLAter have children they have only so much little time befor they go to
another war. a generation is those born. and grow to a adult. and in each
generation while they are still children those who grew to adulthood in the
meenwhile are in a war. and when they get killd or go home those who
reeched adulthood then go to v war to replace those who get killd or went
home.. every single family whos kids all grow to adulthood will go to a war
we are all born to wait till we reech adulthood so we end up in front of a
bullet. this is a descusting cycle and how will it stop. one war after another
is americas histry due to outside disagreements. at the cost of lives till the
next war at the cost of lives then more kids reech adulthood to go to war
at the cost of more lives. while we loose our homes our jobs our children
so the wars can be paid for to cover expenses at the cost of more lives
untill finaly we in america go broke and end up in a depression along
with more wars at the cost of more lives and in the meen time we are
all told the econimy is strong and we will win.. WIN WHAT. the wars
started by those who run things on two sides of the fence. what are
we winning?. till the next war.. what will we win then.. can anyone
see my point..

oneview
03-20-2010, 03:00 PM
every generation ends up in a war the evidence of this if you think back
11 major wars from ww1 to ww2 to this war on global terror. counting
the small wars in between each of the big wars.. when you get a wife and
lLAter have children they have only so much little time befor they go to
another war. a generation is those born. and grow to a adult. and in each
generation while they are still children those who grew to adulthood in the
meenwhile are in a war. and when they get killd or go home those who
reeched adulthood then go to v war to replace those who get killd or went
home.. every single family whos kids all grow to adulthood will go to a war
we are all born to wait till we reech adulthood so we end up in front of a
bullet. this is a descusting cycle and how will it stop. one war after another
is americas histry due to outside disagreements. at the cost of lives till the
next war at the cost of lives then more kids reech adulthood to go to war
at the cost of more lives. while we loose our homes our jobs our children
so the wars can be paid for to cover expenses at the cost of more lives
untill finaly we in america go broke and end up in a depression along
with more wars at the cost of more lives and in the meen time we are
all told the econimy is strong and we will win.. WIN WHAT. the wars
started by those who run things on two sides of the fence. what are
we winning?. till the next war.. what will we win then.. can anyone
see my point..

Living without "wars" breaking out somewhere appears to be unlikely.

Lots of countries around the world, have not really been in a war,
since the 1950's.

There have been some "minor wars" going on during this time from the 1950's
throughout the world, but still - a number of countries have not really
known anything war-like, for a fair length of time now.

The world has been - fairly peaceful - for about 55 years now.
Any wars that have been - have been - to a lesser extent.

The areas, where conflicts, have broke out, would obviously see it different.
Nevertheless, as far as the world goes, it's been fairly peaceful.

Wars, could be, a fact of life.
Whether or not a war is wanted, may be the only difference, perspectively.

oneview
03-20-2010, 03:15 PM
I placed the first two sentences as a foundation/defining characteristics for the individual writing the poem. Then I focused on the next phrase and presumed the writer continued a discussion of his traits. Placing the understood subject as, "I" don't aimlessly speculate. "My" mind over matter plays a big part in my outlook.

My interpretation was 'speculate with intent/an aim. That which mind creates is that which I seek outward.

So, I wondered if the goals are independant of god source to the writer, thus innocent from man's hand ruling over god's. In my opinion an individual who seeks to estabilish a goal has methods for doing thus, eliminating the god factor completely. So, with the objectives of the poets mind, are fixed outlooks innocent...without burden?

It appears to me, that the way - you are analyzing statements made,
could be getting expressed thought - out of context.
That's the way - your wondering - looks to me. IMO

Re: your last paragraph:

The goals - are not - independant - of "god sources" (plural).
The goals, also, would not be, "innocent", of mans' hand, ruling over god(s).

Fixed outlooks, would not be, innocent or without burden. Is my answer
to your question.

oneview
03-20-2010, 03:31 PM
It appears to me, that the way - you are analyzing statements made,
could be getting expressed thought - out of context.
That's the way - your wondering - looks to me. IMO

Re: your last paragraph:

The goals - are not - independant - of "god sources" (plural).
The goals, also, would not be, "innocent", of mans' hand, ruling over god(s).

Fixed outlooks, would not be, innocent or without burden. Is my answer
to your question.

Fixed outlooks, would not be from, idle/passing interests.
However, present-day, is not at the "forefront" of anything, as far as,
the world around goes.

jane doe
03-20-2010, 03:41 PM
In your opinion, has society became more cynical or just simply more aware?
Have you ever learned something about a person or society that you wish to God you never knew?
Had an experience you wish you never had?



Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence..


The lyricist seems to answer all of these questions with a yes, potentially due to having a hand in things, or oppositions to circumstances.

oneview
03-20-2010, 03:51 PM
Offer up your best defense
But this is the end
This is the end of the innocence..


The lyricist seems to answer all of these questions with a yes, potentially due to having a hand in things, or oppositions to circumstances.

Unknown, "who" the lyricist would be.

People of note, credited with writing: songs or books,
tend to see, their writings, originating - from without - not within,
of themselves.

These people, seem to "go with", what comes to them.
Seeing themselves as "called upon", to do so.

Seems "strange", to one that is not "initiated" so.

oneview
03-20-2010, 03:58 PM
Unknown, "who" the lyricist would be.

People of note, credited with writing: songs or books,
tend to see, their writings, originating - from without - not within,
of themselves.

These people, seem to "go with", what comes to them.
Seeing themselves as "called upon", to do so.

Seems "strange", to one that is not "initiated" so.

Things like this, that take place - inside of us, is "evidence"
of "forces" at large, around us, as we be.

Philosophers/thinkers of note, express "their thoughts" as having come from
"daemons", that they "somehow" have contact with.

kerry
03-20-2010, 05:57 PM
Living without "wars" breaking out somewhere appears to be unlikely.

Lots of countries around the world, have not really been in a war,
since the 1950's.

There have been some "minor wars" going on during this time from the 1950's
throughout the world, but still - a number of countries have not really
known anything war-like, for a fair length of time now.

The world has been - fairly peaceful - for about 55 years now.
Any wars that have been - have been - to a lesser extent.

The areas, where conflicts, have broke out, would obviously see it different.
Nevertheless, as far as the world goes, it's been fairly peaceful.

Wars, could be, a fact of life.
Whether or not a war is wanted, may be the only difference, perspectively.


go here
America's Wars: U.S. Casualties and Veterans — Infoplease.com (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html)
and count the number of years with no war
then count the number of wars from ww1
then count how long each war lasted

oneview
03-21-2010, 10:02 AM
go here
America's Wars: U.S. Casualties and Veterans — Infoplease.com (http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004615.html)
and count the number of years with no war
then count the number of wars from ww1
then count how long each war lasted

Here's a link for: history of wars throughout the world.

THE WAR SCHOLAR (http://www.warscholar.com/Timeline.html)

kerry
03-22-2010, 01:42 PM
Living without "wars" breaking out somewhere appears to be unlikely.

Lots of countries around the world, have not really been in a war,
since the 1950's.

There have been some "minor wars" going on during this time from the 1950's
throughout the world, but still - a number of countries have not really
known anything war-like, for a fair length of time now.

The world has been - fairly peaceful - for about 55 years now.
Any wars that have been - have been - to a lesser extent.

The areas, where conflicts, have broke out, would obviously see it different.
Nevertheless, as far as the world goes, it's been fairly peaceful.

Wars, could be, a fact of life.
Whether or not a war is wanted, may be the only difference, perspectively.


how much of to a lesser extent. about 2 or 3 killd a day maybe..
spain had terror attacks.. the UK had terror attacks.. eussia had terror attacks... israel..every day... india... china had terror attacks.. while the war on terror continues.. and there will be more terror attacks.. everyones afrade to fly.. what ver caused wars in the past is not like this war on terror.. islamic terrorist started it to spred islam.. they are alone and the only country that suports them is there own.. how much is 2 killd a day in all the countrys agenst terror.. per year..

oneview
03-22-2010, 02:48 PM
how much of to a lesser extent. about 2 or 3 killd a day maybe..
spain had terror attacks.. the UK had terror attacks.. eussia had terror attacks... israel..every day... india... china had terror attacks.. while the war on terror continues.. and there will be more terror attacks.. everyones afrade to fly.. what ver caused wars in the past is not like this war on terror.. islamic terrorist started it to spred islam.. they are alone and the only country that suports them is there own.. how much is 2 killd a day in all the countrys agenst terror.. per year..

How much of to a lesser extent?...

Would be in accordance to the scope of the activity.

World-wide activity (the lack of)
compared to - a restricted area - in the world. (present somewhere)

The Poet
03-22-2010, 05:14 PM
You appear to be "remorsefull", for some reason.

Wishing somehow better for......
but where is the reality of it?

Where is, burying oneself, in some kind of dreamworld?

One can do, what one itself, can do.
There is no other guy, to wait on.

True. But I must wonder, if 1) we all value our lives, 2) value the lives of our children and 3) want to enjoy life to the fullest, do we work so damn hard to make it Hell? Look, we got earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, forest fires, tornados, car accidents, e.t.c, e.t.c- things we CAN NOT control. But we CAN control slaughtering each other like some kind of insane psychopath. I do not believe we are "fated" to destroy each other. It is a decision WE make-all of us, to a point.
If the next time some bonehead wanted a war we ALL told him to go "f**k" hi or herself there would be NO WAR. A finger must pull a trigger to shoot a gun. The finger can NOT do it on it's own-WE each must decide wether to pull the trigger or NOT to pull the trigger.
What must happend before we realize we can NOT keep killing each other this way? A nuclear holocaust that exterminates ALL LIFE?!?! No, that is insane..but if we keep on the way things are it WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY INSANE OR NOT!
Let us be the LAST GENERATION to bear this evil. Encourage your sons NOT to sing up for the military, NOT to sing up for Selective Services aqnd NOT to vote for some g**damn moron who has a hard on for death and carnage.
War is a form of slavery for men. All men should refuse to be a war slave (LITERALLY) for those in power and the moneyed interest. ALL MEN! All mothers should discourage their sons from glamorizing war and violence. We must stop treating our boys and young men like DISPOSABLE TRASH! We are humans, godd**n it, not throwaway robots to be busted, smashed and killed for others!

oneview
03-22-2010, 05:39 PM
True. But I must wonder, if 1) we all value our lives, 2) value the lives of our children and 3) want to enjoy life to the fullest, do we work so damn hard to make it Hell? Look, we got earthquakes, hurricanes, tsunamis, forest fires, tornados, car accidents, e.t.c, e.t.c- things we CAN NOT control. But we CAN control slaughtering each other like some kind of insane psychopath. I do not believe we are "fated" to destroy each other. It is a decision WE make-all of us, to a point.

.....



Chances are, life is not "valued" to any "real extent". Any value to life,
would appear to come up "shallow", in our self. How deep can it be taken?

No doubt, life is saught to be enjoyed as much as one can.

Is unlikely that we are "fated" to destroy each other;
however, we could very well be "fated" to survive against each other.

oneview
03-22-2010, 05:52 PM
....

If the next time some bonehead wanted a war we ALL told him to go "f**k" hi or herself there would be NO WAR. A finger must pull a trigger to shoot a gun. The finger can NOT do it on it's own-WE each must decide wether to pull the trigger or NOT to pull the trigger.
What must happend before we realize we can NOT keep killing each other this way? A nuclear holocaust that exterminates ALL LIFE?!?! No, that is insane..but if we keep on the way things are it WILL HAPPEN EVENTUALLY INSANE OR NOT!

....


How likely is it, that a war could be, without our willingness to go to war?
Before going to war, we would have to, "want" to go to war.

In WWII, prior to the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the Americans, were not
interested in going to war, and were not involved in the war.
After the bombing of Pearl Harbor, the Americans, wanted to go to war.

Anihilation of one another, would occur from, neither side, going to lose.
Not "really" insane. Depends where the line is drawn. (?)

oneview
03-22-2010, 06:06 PM
....

Let us be the LAST GENERATION to bear this evil. Encourage your sons NOT to sing up for the military, NOT to sing up for Selective Services aqnd NOT to vote for some g**damn moron who has a hard on for death and carnage.
War is a form of slavery for men. All men should refuse to be a war slave (LITERALLY) for those in power and the moneyed interest. ALL MEN! All mothers should discourage their sons from glamorizing war and violence. We must stop treating our boys and young men like DISPOSABLE TRASH! We are humans, godd**n it, not throwaway robots to be busted, smashed and killed for others!

The only way - we do things - for others - is by - made to do so.
Nobody - has to make us - do things - for ourselves.

If we can't be made to do anothers' bidding, where will we do, their bidding?
Is unlikely, that "we", could be made to go to war, against our will.
We would have to be, more for it, than not.
If we are for it, where are we - against it?

kerry
03-24-2010, 06:16 PM
its not only the bone heads in america there everywhere. i dont know where WE THE PEOPLE CAME FROM.. correction.. i dont know where WE THE PEOPLE ARE COMING FROM.. but bwe must not forget.. even if there was no bone heads and everything was ok. there is allways some one with no other good reason to start a war then just out of hate.. like iran.. the president of iran whats his name...ahamagingajig... he just hates jews period and is building up nukes to use on them and then the usa because we the people defrnd israel.. first.. we the people should have the option to say...we dont like what the president is doing its wrong.. and have the right to pitition.
do we have that right now?.. if we do what happend to it.. the things that vare being right now is trying to stop ahanadingajig from building nukes.. and giving aid to israel to protect themselves. the thing that is wrong eight now is if we have the right to pitition we are not doing it. and if this option dont exist then the other thing that is wrong now is after the president is elected thats it. we have no more control. we only have control who gets elected. how many times was a president elected and never did what was promesed?..the only sure cure for war is us we the people. unless its a attack like 9/11 then a war is justified.. but a war is not justified when politics on two sides of the fence dont think of we the people that stop a bullet in there suport.

kerry
04-03-2010, 07:01 PM
i will never have kids
so they can grow out of innocents and learn how to hate.. learn how to lie.. learn how to hurt another.. they all grow and learn these things no mater what you do. they are the real innocents exposed to the world. this way they will never be lied to. no one will ever hurt them.. no one will hate them..
this world is not fit for children. and not safe. every day a child is missing. and when there adults.. every day they lie. every day they go to a war just to be killd. every day they look for a job. get a devorce.. loose custody of there kids. loose there homes.. watch there parrents die.. no.. they will never suffer these things. beter off they stay in gods eys.

kerry
04-04-2010, 10:00 AM
Nun Lol