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galexander
05-19-2010, 01:32 PM
I would like to make the observation that American Freemasonry does not appear to be that different from its kin in Europe.

In the United Kingdom the Freemasons are very much sponsored by the present Royal Family. The Duke of Kent is the official head of the Freemasons while the Queen heads the Order of the Druids.

However considering that American history is somewhat different from UK history, why is it that the rites and rituals are practically identical?

Why is it that an elitist, aristocratic organisation from Europe is copied such that an almost exact replica is found in the US?

Surely there is nothing revolutionary or republican in an organisation that traces its roots back to the medieval Knights Templar?

I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.

On America's Blue Bloods see the following link:

Bluebloods: America’s Ruling Class (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message637266/pg1)

Anton Chaitkin in his book "Treason in America: from Aaron Burr to Averell Harriman" documents the takeover of the US by these Blue Bloods. He traces their descents from their family archives.

stompk
05-19-2010, 03:59 PM
America was duped by English Freemasons, like George Washington. They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.

All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.

That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.


During the 1610s, the small English colony at Jamestown was essentially a failure. Fearful of losing their investment, the officers of the Virginia Company in London embarked upon a series of reforms designed to attract more people to the troubled settlement

Company officials also made justice in Virginia more predictable by adopting English common law as the basis of their system, which replaced the whims of the governor as the final voice on legal matters. In 1620, in an effort to create a more stable society, the company dispatched a boatload of marriageable women to the colony; the going rate was 120 pounds of tobacco for each bride.

House of Burgesses (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1151.html)

BlueAngel
05-19-2010, 11:54 PM
I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.

On America's Blue Bloods see the following link:

Bluebloods: America’s Ruling Class (http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message637266/pg1)

Anton Chaitkin in his book "Treason in America: from Aaron Burr to Averell Harriman" documents the takeover of the US by these Blue Bloods. He traces their descents from their family archives.

Being a "blue blood" has nothing to do with being committed to American Independence.

Blue blood is an expression from the Spanish phrase "sangre azul", indicating nobility (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/wiki/Nobility) or noble descent.

As I've stated on the forum, America has a ruling class, but we don't refer to it as a MONARCHY, although it is, because those with money and power are all related in some form or fashion; distant cousins or otherwise.

If this were common knowledge, America would not be considered to be independent and a democracy.

America would be considered to be governed by a ruling class and people would not be under the impression that THEY are the ruling class.

The thread I authored that speaks to this issue is:

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f22/illuminati-keeping-all-family-obama-cheney-5562.html

galexander
05-20-2010, 01:10 PM
America was duped by English Freemasons, like George Washington. They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.

All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.

That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.


House of Burgesses (http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1151.html)

I am fascinated by your historical quote stompk:

During the 1610s, the small English colony at Jamestown was essentially a failure. Fearful of losing their investment, the officers of the Virginia Company in London embarked upon a series of reforms designed to attract more people to the troubled settlement

Company officials also made justice in Virginia more predictable by adopting English common law as the basis of their system, which replaced the whims of the governor as the final voice on legal matters. In 1620, in an effort to create a more stable society, the company dispatched a boatload of marriageable women to the colony; the going rate was 120 pounds of tobacco for each bride.

I don't wish to sound like a stickler for historical accuracy but wasn't the 1610's before American Independence?

galexander
05-20-2010, 01:22 PM
I don't wish to confuse things too much but it also cannot be forgotten that there are in fact two rival schools among the Freemasons.

The Grand Orient de France and the United Grand Lodge of England. Obviously the rivalry between the French and the British is historic.

It seems the Orients played a part in American Independence:

The Lodge Les Neuf Sœurs was a prominent lodge attached to the Grand Orient de France that was particularly influential in organising French support for the American Revolution and later in the intellectual ferment that preceded the French Revolution. Benjamin Franklin was a member of this Lodge when he was serving as liaison in Paris.

Possibly the French were getting there own back on the British by encouraging an independence movement in America. The French had suffered defeat against the British in the Americas.

KSigMason
05-31-2010, 07:47 PM
Why is it that an elitist, aristocratic organisation from Europe is copied such that an almost exact replica is found in the US?
Well, Freemasonry isn't an elitist, aristocratic organization. A good man who holds a faith is eligible to petition for membership.

Surely there is nothing revolutionary or republican in an organisation that traces its roots back to the medieval Knights Templar?
And even though there is no concrete evidence that there is a direct connection between Freemasons and Knights Templar, why would you say that about the Templars? I'd say, for their time, the Knights had a very democratic process as they elected their Grand Master (the head of the Order).

I was interested to hear how the masonic Skull and Bones of Yale of which George Bush senior was a member has its origins traced back to America's 'Blue Bloods'. These people weren't really committed to American Independence and owned a lot of wealth they didn't wish to lose.
First, the Skull & Bones is not connected in any ways to the Freemasons, specifically as an affiliated body.

They were in place to make sure that taxes were still being collected.
So how is a government to function without some taxes being collected. Personally, I'm a staunch conservative and against high taxes, and prefer a smaller federal government.

All Freemasons, are loyal to the Queen of England (British Royalty). Many don't even know it, as they haven't bothered to review the history.
Wrong my friend. Nowhere in any Oaths that I have taken have I sworn loyalty to the Queen of England. In fact, we promise never to let women join our Craft (which some feminists have a huge problem with I'm sure). Nor do we swear loyalty to British Royalty. Every Grand Lodge is sovereign unto itself and there is no superior body that controls the Grand Lodge.

That's why we have states like Virginia, named after Queen Victoria, The House of Burgesses, of which Washington was a member of, was created to instill the English Court system, which is a masonic system.
How is the English Court system a Masonic system?

galexander
06-01-2010, 02:53 PM
Well, Freemasonry isn't an elitist, aristocratic organization. A good man who holds a faith is eligible to petition for membership.


And even though there is no concrete evidence that there is a direct connection between Freemasons and Knights Templar, why would you say that about the Templars? I'd say, for their time, the Knights had a very democratic process as they elected their Grand Master (the head of the Order).


First, the Skull & Bones is not connected in any ways to the Freemasons, specifically as an affiliated body.


So how is a government to function without some taxes being collected. Personally, I'm a staunch conservative and against high taxes, and prefer a smaller federal government.


Wrong my friend. Nowhere in any Oaths that I have taken have I sworn loyalty to the Queen of England. In fact, we promise never to let women join our Craft (which some feminists have a huge problem with I'm sure). Nor do we swear loyalty to British Royalty. Every Grand Lodge is sovereign unto itself and there is no superior body that controls the Grand Lodge.


How is the English Court system a Masonic system?

Thank you for taking the time to reply to the points you have itemised above.

The first question I'd like to ask you if I may is are you a Grand Orient Freemason? This could clear up any question as to swearing an oath to the British Crown.

The second question I'd like to ask but again which is rather predictable I'm afraid, is what is the purpose of the Freemasons?

So far we have not been convinced by the explanation that it is a charity, a social club etc, etc.

Please enlighten us.................why the secrecy?

KSigMason
06-01-2010, 05:19 PM
No, I'm not a clandestine Freemason. I am a part of the recognized, true bodies of Freemasonry. The Orients and unrecognized, rogue Lodges are a thorn in the side of Freemasonry and our noble causes. Even as a Mason under my Grand Lodge, I don't fall under the British Crown. The UGLE, or any other Grand Lodge, wouldn't ever try to encroach upon another Grand Lodge's sovereignty as it would cause schisms within the Brotherhood. By my Oath as a Master Mason I, and all those within my Grand Lodge, couldn't be under the control of the British Crown as a woman cannot be a Mason, under the Grand Lodge regulations that all recognized Grand Lodges abide by.

Freemasonry strives to better the world around us. We strive to set an example of virtue and charity that others may follow. We believe equality, morality, love for one another, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty. Every man joins for various reasons, some are not always good. Some, like conspiracy theorists join with mercenary motives to expose us, and some join to see if they can get networking-connections. I'm not going to lie and say every Mason has been good - there is always a bad apple in the orchard.

Why haven't you been convinced? I bet many of the benefactors of these Masonic charities would have to argue against your distrust.

It's not so much secrecy (as you can find most anything on the internet) as it is privacy. There are many things outside the realms of this venerable Fraternity that are private and do not let non-members attend. We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?

galexander
06-02-2010, 12:58 PM
No, I'm not a clandestine Freemason. I am a part of the recognized, true bodies of Freemasonry. The Orients and unrecognized, rogue Lodges are a thorn in the side of Freemasonry and our noble causes. Even as a Mason under my Grand Lodge, I don't fall under the British Crown. The UGLE, or any other Grand Lodge, wouldn't ever try to encroach upon another Grand Lodge's sovereignty as it would cause schisms within the Brotherhood. By my Oath as a Master Mason I, and all those within my Grand Lodge, couldn't be under the control of the British Crown as a woman cannot be a Mason, under the Grand Lodge regulations that all recognized Grand Lodges abide by.

Freemasonry strives to better the world around us. We strive to set an example of virtue and charity that others may follow. We believe equality, morality, love for one another, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty. Every man joins for various reasons, some are not always good. Some, like conspiracy theorists join with mercenary motives to expose us, and some join to see if they can get networking-connections. I'm not going to lie and say every Mason has been good - there is always a bad apple in the orchard.

Why haven't you been convinced? I bet many of the benefactors of these Masonic charities would have to argue against your distrust.

It's not so much secrecy (as you can find most anything on the internet) as it is privacy. There are many things outside the realms of this venerable Fraternity that are private and do not let non-members attend. We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?

I couldn't help noticing the use of the words 'noble' and 'sovereign' in your first paragraph. Perhaps this was just an accident.

You admit that 'there is always a bad apple in the orchard'. Presumably this is a reference to the infamous P2 lodge of Italy who had to be broken up by the Italian government.

P2 were an exception because they worked outside of the government and against the government as part of a conspiracy.

But what about the Masons who work within the government and with the government?

For example what is your answer to the observation that Freemasons have the reputation of being pro-establishment, conservative and right wing?

As for the following quote:

We're a private group and as such entitled to privacy. I mean, you're not willing to share with us your bank account number and routing number, are you?

Don't forget that what you just said could accidentally be misconstrued as an attempted offer of a bribe!

KSigMason
06-02-2010, 03:10 PM
What's wrong with using noble or sovereign? Our cause is noble and our jurisdictions are sovereign unto themselves.

My "bad apple" comment refers not to P2, but to some individual Brothers who are not always good or have been expelled. P2 is a clandestine, rogue Lodge not recognized by any Grand Lodge. Most irregular Lodges don't follow the basic tenets or regulations of the Fraternity. Thus are they not recognized.

What about those Masons that work within the government? I work for the military. So what? Masons come from all walks of life.

Freemasonry isn't politic nor does it hold specific leanings in ideology nor is politics (along with religion) allowed to be discussed within the Lodge. It stands for goodness, plain and simple. It charges you to be a good citizen, but that doesn't mean pro-establishment. Plus, I know several Brothers who are very liberal.

I wasn't meaning it to be a bribe, and it would be a far stretch to prove it. I was asking to prove that privacy is needed and acceptable. I don't go yelling out my banking information or any personal information, as it is personal.

galexander
06-03-2010, 01:22 PM
What's wrong with using noble or sovereign? Our cause is noble and our jurisdictions are sovereign unto themselves.

My "bad apple" comment refers not to P2, but to some individual Brothers who are not always good or have been expelled. P2 is a clandestine, rogue Lodge not recognized by any Grand Lodge. Most irregular Lodges don't follow the basic tenets or regulations of the Fraternity. Thus are they not recognized.

What about those Masons that work within the government? I work for the military. So what? Masons come from all walks of life.

Freemasonry isn't politic nor does it hold specific leanings in ideology nor is politics (along with religion) allowed to be discussed within the Lodge. It stands for goodness, plain and simple. It charges you to be a good citizen, but that doesn't mean pro-establishment. Plus, I know several Brothers who are very liberal.

I wasn't meaning it to be a bribe, and it would be a far stretch to prove it. I was asking to prove that privacy is needed and acceptable. I don't go yelling out my banking information or any personal information, as it is personal.

From what you have said as follows:

Freemasonry strives to better the world around us. We strive to set an example of virtue and charity that others may follow. We believe equality, morality, love for one another, integrity, and fidelity/loyalty.

It is almost as if you have painted the Freemasons as being like some sort of church group.

But what of the origins of Freemasonry in the age of the Enlightenment? Shouldn't the Freemasons be avant-garde intellectuals with some radical agenda? Its almost as if you were the opposite.

Also what is an apparently clever and respectable chap like yourself doing hanging around on a conspiracy forum like this? Are you not snooping on what is being said about the Freemasons?

KSigMason
06-04-2010, 10:25 PM
It is almost as if you have painted the Freemasons as being like some sort of church group.

But what of the origins of Freemasonry in the age of the Enlightenment? Shouldn't the Freemasons be avant-garde intellectuals with some radical agenda? Its almost as if you were the opposite.

Also what is an apparently clever and respectable chap like yourself doing hanging around on a conspiracy forum like this? Are you not snooping on what is being said about the Freemasons?
Freemasonry isn't a religion, its a fraternity. It doesn't meet the requirements to be a religion.

When Freemasonry started I'm sure the ideals of the Fraternity would be radical, but are mainstream today.

I'm here because I hate lies being spread and sheer curiosity.

galexander
06-05-2010, 05:22 AM
Freemasonry isn't a religion, its a fraternity. It doesn't meet the requirements to be a religion.

When Freemasonry started I'm sure the ideals of the Fraternity would be radical, but are mainstream today.

I'm here because I hate lies being spread and sheer curiosity.

Thank you KSigMason.

However I still feel what you have told us is pretty minimal considering.

KSigMason
06-05-2010, 08:50 AM
Thank you KSigMason.

However I still feel what you have told us is pretty minimal considering.
Ask me some more questions, but I will not be on very much in the next few days as I'm out in the field doing some training exercises and I am exhausted at the end of the day.

BlueAngel
06-05-2010, 11:22 PM
Ask me some more questions, but I will not be on very much in the next few days as I'm out in the field doing some training exercises and I am exhausted at the end of the day.

Oh, for goodness sakes.

We couldn't care any less about your training exercises and how exhausted you are.

Maybe Gale does, but the rest of us don't.

Trust me.

KSigMason
06-05-2010, 11:35 PM
I'll take that into consideration

BlueAngel
06-05-2010, 11:48 PM
I'll take that into consideration

We don't care whether you take it into consideration or not.

Don't you get it?

We don't care that you're a Freemason and we don't care what you do.

Totally uninterested.

BlueAngel
06-06-2010, 12:02 AM
Can't wait to ask you some more questions.

Gosh.

You're so annoying.

galexander
06-09-2010, 01:20 PM
Ask me some more questions, but I will not be on very much in the next few days as I'm out in the field doing some training exercises and I am exhausted at the end of the day.

I'd like to ask a further question if I may KSigMason. Even though it may not be directly relevant to the thread, I simply couldn't resist it.

Many have claimed that the Freemasons and their kin, such as the Rosicrucians, practice the mystic arts such as the ancient Hebraic Qabalah.

Esoteric orders such as the Golden Dawn apparently actively recruited from among the ranks of the Freemasons and many leading members of the occult were also practicing Freemasons.

Is there any truth to this rumour or is it purely a misinterpretation of the facts?

BlueAngel
06-10-2010, 12:32 AM
I'd like to ask a further question if I may KSigMason. Even though it may not be directly relevant to the thread, I simply couldn't resist it.

Many have claimed that the Freemasons and their kin, such as the Rosicrucians, practice the mystic arts such as the ancient Hebraic Qabalah.

Esoteric orders such as the Golden Dawn apparently actively recruited from among the ranks of the Freemasons and many leading members of the occult were also practicing Freemasons.

Is there any truth to this rumour or is it purely a misinterpretation of the facts?

Gale,

What is your problem?

Do you seriously think that KSigMason possesses any inside knowledge regarding Freemasonry?

Please.

BlueAngel
06-10-2010, 12:37 AM
Thank you KSigMason.

However I still feel what you have told us is pretty minimal considering.

What?

Do you seriously believe KSigMason is harboring Freemasonry secrets, Gale?

Talk about being duped.

KSigMason
06-10-2010, 09:54 AM
Yeah, why would I know anything about Freemasonry? I'm only a member.

KSigMason
06-10-2010, 12:47 PM
I'd like to ask a further question if I may KSigMason. Even though it may not be directly relevant to the thread, I simply couldn't resist it.

Many have claimed that the Freemasons and their kin, such as the Rosicrucians, practice the mystic arts such as the ancient Hebraic Qabalah.

Esoteric orders such as the Golden Dawn apparently actively recruited from among the ranks of the Freemasons and many leading members of the occult were also practicing Freemasons.

Is there any truth to this rumour or is it purely a misinterpretation of the facts?
You may, ask away, I'll answer you what I can. Many of the philosophical, mystical studies, occur within the Scottish Rite (which I have not taken, but studied on only). Within the York Rite, all practices are predominately Christian oriented and are based on Biblical verse. Some of the appendant bodies in the York Rite however practice various arts (ie Grand College of Rites, Allied Masonic Degree, etc).

The Golden Dawn is not connected to Freemasonry. If anything its connected to the irregular, clandestine Freemasons which is not recognized by the Blue Lodges or appendant bodies.

galexander
06-10-2010, 01:21 PM
You may, ask away, I'll answer you what I can. Many of the philosophical, mystical studies, occur within the Scottish Rite (which I have not taken, but studied on only). Within the York Rite, all practices are predominately Christian oriented and are based on Biblical verse. Some of the appendant bodies in the York Rite however practice various arts (ie Grand College of Rites, Allied Masonic Degree, etc).

The Golden Dawn is not connected to Freemasonry. If anything its connected to the irregular, clandestine Freemasons which is not recognized by the Blue Lodges or appendant bodies.

But are any of these rites practised in order to produce a mind altering effect?

And are any of these rites and rituals carried out in order to produce a magical effect?

TheOctavist
06-10-2010, 11:37 PM
no and no

BlueAngel
06-11-2010, 12:25 AM
Yeah, why would I know anything about Freemasonry? I'm only a member.

Cause, just like you said.

You're only a member.

galexander
06-11-2010, 01:22 PM
You may, ask away, I'll answer you what I can. Many of the philosophical, mystical studies, occur within the Scottish Rite (which I have not taken, but studied on only). Within the York Rite, all practices are predominately Christian oriented and are based on Biblical verse. Some of the appendant bodies in the York Rite however practice various arts (ie Grand College of Rites, Allied Masonic Degree, etc).

The Golden Dawn is not connected to Freemasonry. If anything its connected to the irregular, clandestine Freemasons which is not recognized by the Blue Lodges or appendant bodies.

It appears you somewhat avoided the question whether the Freemasons study the Qabalah or not.

There is plenty of literature out there on the Qabalah which connect the Freemasons and the Rosicrucians with the study of this mystical system.

Presumably you do and this is a secret if you are unable to answer in the negative.

KSigMason
06-11-2010, 09:13 PM
Cause, just like you said.

You're only a member.
And that means what? Members of the organization don't know anything, but non-members do? How do you connect those dots?


It appears you somewhat avoided the question whether the Freemasons study the Qabalah or not.

There is plenty of literature out there on the Qabalah which connect the Freemasons and the Rosicrucians with the study of this mystical system.

Presumably you do and this is a secret if you are unable to answer in the negative.
In the bodies I am in, we do not. I'm not a member of the Scottish Rite so someone will have to give that answer.

TheOctavist
06-11-2010, 09:28 PM
I am a member of the Scottish Rite, and no... none of that.

galexander
06-12-2010, 03:51 AM
I am a member of the Scottish Rite, and no... none of that.

But I gather from the tenor of your reply that it could have been.

monk
06-12-2010, 04:57 AM
Hi KsigMason,

One of the most respected research lodges that is mainstream is Quatuor Coronati Lodge No 2076, one member was William_Wynn_Westcott, who was a founding member of the Golden Dawn.

http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-11/p-56php

http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-11/p-57php

William Wynn Westcott - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Wynn_Westcott)

monk
06-12-2010, 05:03 AM
Sorry about link:-

MQ MAGAZINE Issue 11 - Masonic Education (http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-11/p-56.php)

MQ MAGAZINE Issue 11 - Masonic Education (http://www.mqmagazine.co.uk/issue-11/p-57.php)

The St. John's Card on above link looks Egyptian and therefore Hermetic....not all masons follow Hermetic philosophy but many do!

BlueAngel
06-15-2010, 10:09 PM
And that means what? Members of the organization don't know anything, but non-members do? How do you connect those dots?



In the bodies I am in, we do not. I'm not a member of the Scottish Rite so someone will have to give that answer.

You are a FREEMASONRY member; a low man on the totem pole and nothing you impart to us regarding Freemasonry on this forum is of any significance.

BlueAngel
06-15-2010, 10:20 PM
Gale continues to engage KSigMason and the Octavist as if they harbor some secret Freemasonry information.

Seriously.

Can you take this love fest elsewhere, Gale?

Thanks,
BA

galexander
06-16-2010, 01:02 PM
Gale continues to engage KSigMason and the Octavist as if they harbor some secret Freemasonry information.

Seriously.

Can you take this love fest elsewhere, Gale?

Thanks,
BA

Although I agree that KSigMason and Octavist's knowledge of the upper echelons of Freemasonry is possibly limited, on the contrary I still think that they know a lot more about the subject than we do.

And possibly a lot more than they are prepared to let on..............

KSigMason
06-16-2010, 06:28 PM
You are a FREEMASONRY member; a low man on the totem pole and nothing you impart to us regarding Freemasonry on this forum is of any significance.
Well, give your logic you also know nothing of significance in regards to Freemasonry.

monk
06-17-2010, 02:43 AM
Hi KSigMason,

I see you like quoting Albert Pike.

To have a lodge bearing his name is a honour for masons, therefore i would direct you to link Albert Pike Lodge No 117 based in Denver, Colorado, link below:-

Albert Pike Lodge No 117 - Denver Colorado (http://www.albertpike117.com/history.htm)

Charter granted on 16th September 1903, many masons are involved in Hermetic Philosophy, and mark dates by midnight, sunrise or sunset, inregards to a charter, this is ancient Egyptian Philosophy, So Alnilam rising at midnight at location marks the day to Osiris, the Egyptians thought of the Belt of Orion as Osiris, and Alnilam is the centre star of the Belt of Orion.

Please click on download, then click on image again to make bigger and clearer, red line shows curve of the Earth at midnight on date of charter showing Alnilam rising.

monk
06-17-2010, 02:52 AM
If you wish i can show charter date of the Golden Dawn or the respected research lodge Quator Coronati , i know what it will show, things change when you are dealing with a good astronomer to catch you out when hermetic astrology/astronomy is used, it leaves a mark in history with an astronomy programme!!!

monk
06-17-2010, 03:21 AM
Obviously Denver is in Colorado, the seal is interesting:-

Nice Eyeball, and Fasces:-

File:Seal of Colorado.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Seal_of_Colorado.svg)

Fasces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fasces)

monk
06-17-2010, 03:36 AM
Lets move on to war....question....who was called "Colonel Apis or The Bee?"

What does "APIS" mean in Greek and Egyptian Mythology?

What has a "BEE" to do with masons?

monk
06-17-2010, 05:19 AM
A clue would be Gavrilo Princip, and the transcript of the Trial of the conspirators of the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand.

The Rare book of the Trial for British readers can be found by going to your local library, to say that you want a book held by the British Library and you need it borrowed to your local library so you can read it, it will take several months.

This isn't a book by a conspiracy nut but a honest appraisal of the trial notes!

It is called THE SARAJEVO TRIAL by W.A. Dolph Owings.

Page 34 is on download, please click on image again when it comes up to make bigger and clearer.

Freemasons are mentioned throughout the Trial, and as i have this rare book will happily download other pages in future where freemasons re mentioned.

Page of book on next section download

monk
06-17-2010, 05:25 AM
True page of the transcript of the trial, please click on download, then click on image when shown to make clearer:-

monk
06-17-2010, 05:49 AM
The Black Hand secret society was responsible for killing Archduke Ferdinand that started World War One one month later, please scroll down link to "IV. THE SEAL AND THE OATH OF ALLEGIANCE".

Article 34. The Organisation's official seal is thus composed: In the centre of the seal there is a powerful arm holding in it's hand an unfurled flag on which there is a Skull and Bones!!!

Constitution of the Black Hand - World War I Document Archive (http://wwi.lib.byu.edu/index.php/Constitution_of_the_Black_Hand)

Masonic tracing boards show the skull and cross bones, link below:-

http://freemasony.bcy.ca/symbolism/tracing_boards/index.html

monk
06-17-2010, 05:52 AM
Sorry about last link, try this:-

Tracing Boards (http://freemasonry.bcy.ca/symbolism/tracing_boards/index.html)

BlueAngel
06-17-2010, 07:42 PM
Well, give your logic you also know nothing of significance in regards to Freemasonry.

My point is that you know nothing of significance regarding the true nature of Freemasonry.

You have proven this to be true.

BlueAngel
06-17-2010, 07:48 PM
Although I agree that KSigMason and Octavist's knowledge of the upper echelons of Freemasonry is possibly limited, on the contrary I still think that they know a lot more about the subject than we do.

And possibly a lot more than they are prepared to let on..............

Yeah.

Their knowledge is limited, but they know a whole lot more than they are prepared to let on.

In that case, please, continue on, Gale because I'm certain that at some point you'll extract information from them that sends the internet blazing with thier confessions about Freemasonry all posted right here on CC.

monk
06-18-2010, 03:06 AM
The Master of the Black Hand was Dragutin Dimitrijevic, quote from first sentences of link" Also known as The Bee, Colonel Apis, No.6 or Most commonly, APIS", when you get to link please click on APIS, to show this is just another name for OSIRIS in Egyptian mythology!

Dragutin Dimitrijević - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijevi%C4%87)

Obviously a follower of the secret Hermetic philosophy!

monk
06-18-2010, 03:13 AM
Another code name for Dragutin Dimirijevic was "The BEE"

The Bee and BeeHive are common masonic symbols, please read link that goes on a bit:-

The Symbolism Of The Beehive And The Bee (http://mill-valley.freemasonry.biz/worrel/beehive.htm)

monk
06-18-2010, 03:57 AM
The Book The Sarajevo Trial by W.A. Dolph Owing is used as a noted accurate account by historians the world over for research, another link to pages to this book can be found on the link below, when link shows image please click on image again to make larger:-

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/904/1jm0.jpg

will continue tomorrow.

monk
06-19-2010, 09:13 AM
All masons like symbolism, this may be aligning a special day to the Sun with the Egyptian God stars, or in this case with the Black Hand Society they chose a very special day in Serbian history to assassinate Archduke Ferdinand, which started World War One, that was a deliberate use of St. Vitus Day.

Check out all the times it has been used:-

Vidovdan - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vidovdan)

monk
06-19-2010, 09:28 AM
In orde to understand exactly what went wrong back in the Summer of 1914, we need look no further than exmine the key alliances that happened between 1879 and 1907, ending with the Triple Entente.

In fact these treaties were alliances that the major nations signed in fear of each other declaring war, yet made all Europe vulnerable to a terrorist attack, bringing the powerful nations into an involuntary dance of death, and a war that no one wanted, yet were duty bound by the signed agreements.

St Vitus Day 1389, and the Battle of Kosovo Poyle marks the beginning of the Serbian Nation, the spirit of togetherness that saw the Serbian peoples unite against the Turkish invader.

Obviously the day changes if valued by the Julian or Gregorian Calendar, however 28th June 1914 is St. Vitus day, and there are grounds to speculate that this day was chosen that triggered W.W.1.

will continue soon.

monk
06-19-2010, 09:43 AM
Two bullets fired on a Sarajevo street on a sunny June morning in 1914 set in motion a series of events that shaped the world we live in today.

World War 1, World War 2, the Cold War, and our difficulties in the Middle East, all trace their origins to the gunshots that interrupted that Summer day, 28th June 1914, St. Vitus Day!

The victims, Archduke Ferdinand, on his wedding anniversary, and his wife Sophie were shot by 19 year old Gavrilo Princip who burned with the fire of Slavic nationalism, he envisioned the death of the Archduke as the key that would unlock the shackles binding his people to the Austro-Hungarian Empire, in fact he was just a patsy for Black Hand! He was well picked as most of the conspirators in the front line were dying of Tuberculosis, therefore didn't mind being martyrs....very clever, COLONEL APIS/Mr. Dimitrijevic!

Will coninue soon.

monk
06-19-2010, 09:55 AM
Gavrilo Princip become an unwitting "Pied Piper", as this assassination precipitated the Austro-Hungarian declaration of war against Serbia, and the involuntary St. Vitus dance of death of World War One.

It was well known for ages that any terrorism in the Balkans would result in another war in Europe so Black Hand have no excuses.

Otto von Bismarck died in 1898, before his death he is quoted "If there is ever another war in Europe, it will come out of a damn silly thing in the Balkans".

The Archduke Ferdinand assassination isn't the only assassination that he planned....there is another, and in this case he aligned the Belt of Orion to the assassination....i'll tell of that soon....i think these nuts think they are Harry Potter!

monk
06-20-2010, 07:48 AM
Lets look at the other Assassination that Dragutin Dimitrijevic/Apis (meaning Osiris in Egyptian mythology) was involved with please scroll down link to the following...."Captain Dimitrijevic and a group of junior officers planned the assassination of the unpopular king of Serbia. On 11th June 1903 the group stormed the royal palace and killed KING ALEXANDER, please click on KING ALEXANDER to give details:-

Dragutin Dimitrijević - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragutin_Dimitrijevi%C4%87)

monk
06-20-2010, 07:56 AM
Now the date of 11th June 1903 is the Gregorian date of assassination, i've checked by newspaper reports in countries that used the Gregorian calendar, this is important when showing astronomy pictures involving a date, as Serbia was using the Julian Calendar at the time.

So If Colonel Apis thought of himself as Osiris you would expect him to mark the start of the day by the Osiris star, being alnilam/Belt of Orion, he did by mid-night, the Nadir in the Northern Hemisphere is straight down from North.

The Nadir is explained by this link:-

Nadir - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nadir)

monk
06-20-2010, 08:01 AM
The Assassination took place in the early hours of 11th June 1903 in the Royal Palace in BELGRADE, Colonel Apis marked the start of the day by midnight, with the Nadir/North by straight line down cutting through Alnilam/Belt of Orion, picture on download, please click on it, then click on image again to make clearer and bigger!

monk
06-22-2010, 05:40 AM
If we note the reasons for World War One were the assassination of Archduke Ferdinand on St Vitus Day 28th June 1914, then we must see Harry Potter symbolism to the date that Germany was forced to sign the Surrender document, being the same date, 28th June 1919.

Please note link and read, approx. time of signing was around 15:18pm.

First World War.com - Primary Documents - U.S. Press Journalist on the Versailles Signing Ceremony, 28 June 1919 (http://www.firstworldwar.com/source/parispeaceconf_signing.htm)

monk
06-22-2010, 06:01 AM
The Hermetic astrologers hunted a location that would align to the start of the day, Sunset, Sunrise or midnight, by the four directions to align to to Alnilam the Osiris star....a good location was Versailles/Paris, they used the Nadir, straight down from North, and midnight, please view attachments and click, when image comes up please click on image again to make bigger and clearer.

Please note that Mars, the God of War is also aligned to the Nadir, straight down from North in the Northern Hemisphere.

monk
06-22-2010, 06:06 AM
Approx. time of signing was 15:18 or 3:18pm, please note that Neptune is very near to the middle of the sky, straight up from South in Northern Hemisphere, look at red line up from South on attachments, please click on image when it appears to make bigger.

monk
06-22-2010, 06:12 AM
Please scroll down link to caption under "Actions" and "The Gift of Neptune", its symbolism is surrendering, how apt that it was a intended alignment to the signing of the document....Harry potter stuff, link below:-

Neptune (http://www.erosastrology.com/neptune.htm)

monk
06-22-2010, 06:40 AM
What really makes me angry is the date of the Armistice, it was chosen for symbolism, yet thousands of soldiers died for this symbolism as they continued fighting up to the 11th Hour of the 11th Day of the 11th Month 1918!

Come on guys we all know that 11 is a master number!

monk
06-22-2010, 06:49 AM
From October 1918 the germans were trying to cut a deal, but this didn't happen till 11/11/1918 in Compriegne, France in the famous railway carriage, used by Hitler in W.W.2. for the surrender of France!

France wanted Germany to pay for the 1914-18 war, and there is Harry Potter symbolism here....the Feast of Martin of Tours is on 11th November, it happens to be the patron Saint of France and Soldiers, please scroll to right under Patronage:-

Martin of Tours - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_of_Tours)

All the Harry Potter stuff didn't work, we had another war 20 years after!!

monk
06-22-2010, 07:44 AM
If you want to read about 3 times 11 in Harry Potter stuff its up to you, esoteric philosophers love numbers!

11 below:-

www: masternumber11 (http://www.magellannumerology.com/masternumber11)

However Armistice day has three elevens finishing at 11th hour, of 11th day of 11th month 1918, adding up to 33, link below:-

www: masternumber33 (http://www.magellannumerology.com/masternumber33)

If W.W.1. had finished on St. Georges day, in England there would have been questions!

If W.W.1. had finished on 4th July, there would have been questions in America!

monk
06-26-2010, 01:06 AM
Question:- "Should intended religious symbolism be used in war?".

An eye for an eye can make us all blind!

The Feast day of the transfiguration of Christ is on 6th August, please scroll down link to "Feast and Commemorations" on link below:-

Transfiguration of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfiguration_of_Jesus)

Jesus climbed up mountain with disciples, suddenly he was transfigured into a blinding white light, the disciples had to turn away in fear of being blinded....then a huge cloud appeared!

Anything you can think of that happened on 6th August in the Second World War that sounds similar to that?

will continue tomorrow.

monk
06-26-2010, 01:13 AM
This link should help in interpretation:-

Transfiguration of Jesus Christ (http://www.allaboutjesuschrist.org/transfiguration-of-jesus-christ-faq.htm)

monk
06-27-2010, 04:13 AM
Within the Cloud there was a voice..."This is my son with whom i am well pleased, listen to him!"

Perhaps Harry Truman 33* Mason and President had the same thoughts...."This is my LITTLE BOY with whom i am well pleased listen to him"

Little Boy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Boy)

monk
06-27-2010, 04:27 AM
Please note this isn't a debate over dropping the atomic bomb, but the symbolism involved and if it was intended that brings the values of religion down to a low level, there isn't any hypocrisy with me, i wasn't there in a position of power on 6th August 1945, i wasn't even born, it was a problem that the Japanese had a suicide mentality that caused huge casulties within the American forces, thus dropping of the bomb was a cause of debate, however did it have to have religious symbolism attached?

monk
06-30-2010, 05:59 AM
Lets go back to the ORIGINS to the National Socialist German Workers Party, that was the German Workers Party started by Anton Drexler, a member of the Occultist Thule Society on 5th January 1919 in Munich, whats special about this date in astronomy? This signals the rise of Hitler, please note this is before the signing of the Surrender document at Versailles/Paris.

If you want a good conspiracy forum, you need to study astronomy, and look at my attachment astronomy pictures, that are honest!

Will continue soon, link to date below:-

German Workers' Party - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Workers%27_Party)

monk
06-30-2010, 06:11 AM
Where have all the Mason thread sections gone? Don't you want to play?

BlueAngel
06-30-2010, 11:11 PM
Where have all the Mason thread sections gone? Don't you want to play?

All of the Mason thread sections are still here.

Obviously, no one wants to play with you.

monk
07-01-2010, 04:49 AM
Thank you Blue Angel for your comments, there is no doubt that my thread sections can make your brain hurt as i deal with details that not all members are familiar with....let me show the rare alignment that happened at the start of the day by midnight of the establishment of the German Workers Party that happened at location that is also important...it doesn't happen at all locations.

In the Northern Hemisphere the middle of the sky by midnight is calcalated by a straight line up from South, you will note by attachment picture that Sirius and Jupiter are aligned in a straight line up from South.

Please click on attachment, then left click on image when it appears to make image bigger!

monk
07-01-2010, 05:12 AM
You will note i say that these alignments that secret societies use are aligned to the start of the day....this can mean midnight, sunrise or sunset on 5th Jan. 1919 in Munich...they use two stars Alnilam/Belt of Orion/Osiris or Sirius/Isis.

Here you have another rare alignment with Jupiter....esoteric secret societies love Jupiter, the King of Planets, and in astrology magic would magnify the influence of Sirius, link below, please scroll down to "Planets in Astrology" then down to "Jupiter" :-

Planets in astrology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets_in_astrology)

monk
07-01-2010, 05:34 AM
Readers will note that the intended position of Sirius on the Prime Meridian, Greenwich....part of London at midnight at 1st January :-

Sirius midnight culmination New Year’s Eve | Tonight | EarthSky (http://earthsky.org/interviewhome/51953/brightest-stars-midnight-culmination-new-years-eve)

England adopted the Gregorian Calendar on 14th September 1752, but 11 days were taken out of the calender, so effected the first Gregorian New Year at midnight on 1st Jan. 1753.....where was JUPITER....please read link:-

What Happened in 1752? (http://www.wisdomportal.com/Dates/1752Jupiter.html)

monk
07-01-2010, 06:00 AM
Come on Freemasons....don't you want to play with me?

I'm dying to show alignments when Pennsylvania joined the Union on 12th December 1787, however then Harrisburg wasn't the Capitol...Philadelphia was then....where was Jupiter?

No one want to play?

monk
07-01-2010, 06:26 AM
Up to the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month 1918, the day was chosen and the hour was chosen for esoteric symbolism....in the last few hours of the First World War there were 11,000 casulties:-

The Last Day Of World War One by Michael Palin (http://www.mazalien.com/the-last-day-of-world-war-one-by-michael-palin.html)

What a loss due to esoteric secret societies, and Harry Potter/potty symbolism that needs to be transported back to the 1500's!!!!!

monk
07-05-2010, 08:10 AM
America didn't sign the Treaty of Versailles surrender document on 28th June 1919, St Vitus Day.

Please look at very top of this link and read "came into force with the exchange of ratifacations at Berlin on 11th November 1921"

These mystics do love numerology don't they?

US - Germany Peace Treaty - Wikisource (http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/US_-_Germany_Peace_Treaty)

Numerology is used the world over....everyone wants to do bussiness with China, they love the number 8.....thus is why The Beijing Olympics started on 8/8/2008!

Below is a link explaining Chinese customs for American businessmen please scroll down link to "Numerology" and read down:-

China's Changing Culture and Etiquette--CBR July-August 2008 (http://www.chinabusinessreview.com/public/0807/fox.html)

monk
07-05-2010, 09:41 AM
These days we honour the dead from war on 11th November, however it isn't the only date, in America the dead of the Civil War memorial day is celebrated on the last Monday in May, and is no longer a fixed date, this was changed in 1971.

The Official date of Memorial day was observed on 5th May 1866, however General John Logan was impressed how the South respected their dead after the Civil War and led a call for a National Holiday for all the Dead.

Logan while in the Capital H.Q. chose 30th May 1868 and then on Memorial Day that was eventually changed in 1971.

He used sunset for alignment, being ancient Greek day start that happened at 19:12:28pm on 29th May 1868, the west was always associated with death with the ancient Egyptians being where the Sun Died at the end of the day!

Memorial Day - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memorial_Day)

monk
07-05-2010, 09:50 AM
On attachment please find astronomy picture looking towards the West at sunset on 29th May 1868 at location of Washington D.C., along the red line you will see that Sirius/Isis sets with the Sun!

In the next thread section i will be looking at the birth of the U.S. Grand Army of the Republic on 6th April 1866 in Decatur, Illinois.

Grand Army of the Republic - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Army_of_the_Republic)

Memorial day picture on attachment, please click, then when image comes up please click on it again to make larger!

monk
07-07-2010, 05:09 AM
I'm not against all freemasons, but splinter groups, KSigMason needs to return to this thread!

I need Galexander to return to this thread...everyone needs to ask questions, i'm not perfect in how i research.

If all religions show imput we may find an answer.

On Page one KSigmason mentions The P-2 Splinter Masonic Group, Thread section #10.

The C.I.A. were involved in Chile, so were P-2 masonic lodge, Augusto Pinochet came to power on 11th September 1973, an auspicious date.....any comments?

Augusto Pinochet - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augusto_Pinochet)

monk
07-09-2010, 09:01 AM
When Japan attacked Pearl Harbour, America was angry, they thought that it was intentional that they attacked on a Sunday when most were in church.

What they also knew at a top level was that a secret society was involved, Japan marked the day at sunrise, how apt for the Land of the rising Sun!

Sunrise on 7th December 1941 in Pearl City, Hawaii happened at 06:31am, while Alnilam/Belt of Orion/Osiris was setting in the West along the horizon!

Attack on Pearl Harbor - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attack_on_Pearl_Harbor)

Astronomy picture on attachment please click, then left click on image to make bigger when it appears....red line is horizon.

monk
07-11-2010, 02:28 AM
It is this act by Japan that brought both America and the Land of the Rising Sun into the Second World War....the day was chosen to align to the stars!

Actually on 7th Dec 1941 at the location of Pearl Harbour, Japan chose another alignment....as the Sun rose in the East, Alnilam set in the West along the horizon....Jupiter, loved by all secret societies also was setting in the West!

Much of the Pacific Fleet of America went to the bottom of the bay, with many lives lost.....i can see why they were angry, but religious symbolism in wwar only brings religion into our sick games!

Hawaii had long been considered as American soil, indeed at a later date Hawaii jioned the United States of America.....America waited till they had a battle on Japanese soil to give pay back!

The last land battle to happen before dropping the atomic bomb was on Japanese soil, being The Battle of Okinawa, that we will look at in the next thread section.

monk
07-11-2010, 02:54 AM
The Land Battle of Okinawa started on 1st April 1945, between the latitude of the Capital Naha, 26*N12'26", 127*E40'24", and Ishikawa, 26*N25'24", 127*E49'17".

At the midnight day marker we find Sirius setting in Naha, out of synch by 3 mins 42 secs, which is within the the four minute margin used by secret societies, however this is below where the troops came ashore.

Above where they came ashore we have Ishikawa and at the midnight day marker, again within the four minute margin, Sirius is setting in the West, out of synch by 2 mins 47 secs.....therefore any point in between will show Sirius setting within four minutes.

Here is a map, look for locations with 1st April attached:-

File:Battle of Okinawa.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Battle_of_Okinawa.svg)

monk
07-11-2010, 03:25 AM
On attachment is an astronomy picture of Sirius/Isis setting in the West at the midnight day marker on 1st April 1945 at the location of Ishikawa, Okinawa, red line is the horizon, please click on attached image if you are logged on, then left click on image to make larger and clearer.

monk
07-11-2010, 03:36 AM
Now lets look at the religious symbolism, on 1st April 1945 being a Sunday was also Easter Sunday in that year and April Fool's day!

The Symbolism attached was the death of the Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbour that had come alive again, just like Jesus, what a FOOL you were to attack us!

Japan needed to be defeated, however i'm not keen that battles are aligned to the stars by the dates chosen, or religious symbolism!

Please scroll down link to "Land Battle" and further still to "Northern Okinawa" where it remarks about Easter Sunday!

Battle of Okinawa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Okinawa)

This type of star alignments and symbolism happens when secret societies are involved!

monk
07-12-2010, 04:58 AM
For most of Japan's history it was cut off from Western esoteric hermetic influence, however during the 19th Century gun boats appeared from the West outside ports...."We only want to trade was the claim"....however Japan knew what happened in Africa, India and South America and countless other locations with Western Greed....they couldn't stop Western Infiltration, but infiltrated the Hermetic Secret Societies that came in with traders!

They chose to copy this behaviour, using the Western Hermetic secret societies behaviour as a yardstick....the trouble was what was acceptable in the 19th Century, wasn't in the 20th Century....the world was changing...we will examine this in the next thread section.

monk
07-12-2010, 05:58 AM
Because of Western Influence, the Meiji Constitution was put in place in Tokyo on 29th November 1890, sunrise was chosen to align the Land of the Rising Sun to the stars....it is the same alignment used in the attack on Pearl Harbour, As the Sun rose at 06:34:44am in Tokyo, Alnilam/Belt of Orion/Osiris was setting along the horizon in the West!

Please note as the Sun rose in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania on 4th July 1776 with the Declaration of Independence, the Sun rose with Alnilam!

This thread over Tunisia may interest:-

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/f23/hi-11509.html

The Meiji Constitution link is below:-

Meiji Constitution - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meiji_Constitution)

The Astronomy picture showing sunrise in Tokyo below, red line is the horizon, please click on attachment, when image appears, please left click on image to make clearer and larger.