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drsone
09-07-2005, 02:11 AM
Hi,

First time poster, somewhat longtime lurker. :)

Just to preface: I have read books such as Creature From Jekyl Island, Tragedy and Hope, Shadows of Power etc.

I just read Rule By Secrecy and I'm curious what ya'll think of the last chapter, Ancient History, which seems to be Marrs quoting a guy named Sitchin(sp?)verbatim as to Sumerian history. It's obviously very intriguing stuff. Has anyone read Sitchin books? Are they well researched and accurate? Are there any other author's or books I should be directed towards regarding what we've learned from/about Sumerian culture?

(Please excuse my spelling if it's incorrect.) :)

Draken
09-07-2005, 02:48 AM
Hey drsone!

I read a couple of Sitchin's books and they sure are intriguing. I got bored though, at the end of the second one in his, what, 12-13-14 part series.

Basically, he claims the Ancient Sumerians were aliens from another planet (Tiamat, or Planet X) who came and populated the Earth. They were highly advanced technologically, with space-faring capability, etc.

There is, as always with controvresial ideas like his, a lot of stuff on the net about him, pro and con.

He's very knowledgable, but I'd be a little sceptical if I were you. ;-)

If you're interested in ancient technologies and civilizations, I recommend <a href="http://www.gizapower.com/">Christopher Dunn</a>'s book, "The Giza Power Plant". The best book I've read about the pyramids at Giza.

Other good books about Ancient Egypt are all books by <a href="http://www.grahamhancock.com/phorum/read.php?f=1&i=78444&t=78297">Graham Hancock</a> and <a href="http://www.robertbauval.com/">Robert Bauval</a>, like "The Orion Mystery" and "Keeper of Genesis".
In connection to Bauval and Hancock check out <a href="http://www.antiquityofman.com/Schoch_harrell_KMTletter.html">prof. Robert Schoch</a> and his work and theory on the dating of the Sphinx...
Also check out <a href="http://members.tripod.com/Gray_Wolf_Alpha/DaveChildress.html">David Hatcher Childress' books</a>.

There are some very interesting facts not many outside the field know about, like a solid sheet of green, smooth glass under the Sahara Desert, which experts can't figure out. Some claim it's the result of ancient nuclear warfare. Now, that might sound drastic, until you check out some studies done on the topic, like these NEXUS articles.

THE EVIDENCE FOR ANCIENT ATOMIC WARFARE
<a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/ancatomicwar1.html">Part 1</a> | <a href="http://www.nexusmagazine.com/articles/ancatomicwar2.html">Part 2</a>
- by David Hatcher Childress

Should be enough for you to get along with! ;-)

Welcome!

Truth, Beauty, Love

igwt
09-07-2005, 03:04 AM
Compare Sitchin to this site.

Link (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)

drsone
09-07-2005, 03:26 AM
Damn Draken, You're my new best friend! :-D

Thanks for the info. Marrs seemed to just be quoting him in that chapter, and I wants proof or at least some multiple source action.

I want to research Sunerian text hardcore now.

Thanks much for all the links to decent books. :)

Btw, just to announce it here, I'm a follower of Jesus. I love this board, the majority of folks seem very open minded and not easily swayed by bullshit.

I've learned alot just reading ya'lls posts since I discovered this place through a link at Henry Makow's site. (Makow is a great fella btw.)

Thx much to anyone who posts here and I look forward to hanging with ya'll till events render it impossible. :)

truebeliever
09-07-2005, 04:03 AM
Welcome BTW.

When i hear the word "alien" attached to conspiracy i go..."click" and start reading about how Jessica and Nick are getting on. Far more entertaining and informative.

Do you know how many people i've met who tell me quite confidently that a man called Christ NEVER existed...but aliens do. :-o

drsone
09-07-2005, 04:24 AM
truebeliever wrote:
Welcome BTW.

When i hear the word "alien" attached to conspiracy i go..."click" and start reading about how Jessica and Nick are getting on. Far more entertaining and informative.

Do you know how many people i've met who tell me quite confidently that a man called Christ NEVER existed...but aliens do. :-o

I know a man dubbed Christ exisisted, he has changed my life.
What he was/is appears to be up for debate, but I know what he is to me.

I do not discount the fact that there may be aliens/creatures/demons here or in contact with those in power.

Whatever word we use for them, they are the same thing.

My youngest brother was abducted, believe it or not. He is a christian and he still has strange brands/marks on his back from the abduction.

He and I have both deceided we will never get tatoos, and one night he woke up with burned marks on him and a story to tell.

freeman
09-07-2005, 05:35 AM
There are some very interesting facts not many outside the field know about, like a solid sheet of green, smooth glass under the Sahara Desert, which experts can't figure out. Some claim it's the result of ancient nuclear warfare.

I believe I referenced the same phenomeonon back on this thread about Rene Noorbeergen's book
Secrets of the Lost Races (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=184&forum=3&post_id=1342&PHPSESSID=d8f4b6db26c252aacff6e4971b0e4317#forumpo st1342).
Noorbergen theorizes that before the Great Flood there was actually a far more advanced civilization than the current one. He attributes a lot of the "alien space men" lore and secrets of the occult to this lost body of technological knowledge. Some say that King Solomon, DaVinci and others had access to ancient archives of this wisdom and were able to translate enough to borrow ideas and inventions.
It's an interesting and not too difficult read. Like Truebeliever, I tend to discount a lot of the space alien fantasies as disinfo, although I accept the possibility of their existence more under the general category of demons, and I think inter-dimensional travel is more likely than extra-terrestrial excursions. This much I am certain of: there is more under heaven and earth than is known of in our philosophy. :-)

truebeliever
09-07-2005, 06:47 AM
Many ancient societies had access to direct knowledge from human DNA. Hence the Illuminati/Masonry attraction to the ancient pyramids and sun gods.

That is why they appear to know the location of things like star systems that they could not have possibly been able to see in ancient times and things like the number 19 appear in a remarkable pattern in books like the Quaran. I actually looked up the claims of Ahmed and I must admit it is pretty eerie...i understand the bible also has number patterns throughout.

Patterns are EVERYWHERE and the closer one comes to the archetypal core the more amazing and obvious the pattern.

Why am I so adament that "Aliens" are a fraud? The human psyche is an amazing thing. I have seen and heard things that are "real"...but they were a hallucination.

As for peoples word that they were indeed abducted...pure and simple? All I can say is...? Until I experience myself I will remain skeptical.

I think the fascination with aliens came with the death of God. We are all waiting for the wise and noble aliens to come and rescue us.

One day we will realise WE are Gods most amazing creation and will have to shoulder responsability for his creation and ensure it's continuing existence.

No one is coming to save us from ourselves.

Although a few Christians will disagree with me.

Draken
09-07-2005, 08:08 AM
Quite.

People are willing to believe the existence of aliens but not the NWO conspiracy, of which there is FAR BETTER AND MORE EVIDENCE.

If you ask me, the alien abduction is more likely to be secret scientific/military experiments with implanted memories to cover their tracks.

truebeliever
09-07-2005, 08:16 AM
Dave writes some great stuff including some great peices on the governments use of Satan Worship/Serial Killers as a government cover for assassination of individuals in politics and the armed forces.

I agree...alot of this stuff is cover for government projects of various kinds.

Ruminations on Littleton, Mind Control, and JFK


By Dave McGowan
September 2000

"Other MKULTRA subprojects dealt with ways to maximize stress on whole societies."
John Marks The Search for the Manchurian Candidate, Times Books, 1979

It has been argued by some researchers that the two alleged shooters at the Columbine High School tragedy in Littleton, Colorado - Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold - were acting under the influence of mind control. Amidst a sea of disinformation, however, this theory appears to be mostly speculative at this point, though not entirely groundless.
What is not speculative is the fact that at least one of the boys was under the influence of the rapidly proliferating new breed of behavior modification drugs - Prozac, Luvox, Elavil, and a host of others being among them. In fact, a close reading of the news reveals that nearly all of the spree killers in recent years have been acting under the influence of one or more of these drugs.
This has been one of the common threads that has woven its way through these high-profile events, though this fact has been grossly underreported in the mainstream press. A convincing argument could be made that the appalling over-prescribing of these drugs is in itself a not-so-subtle form of mass mind control, as should be glaringly apparent to any rational-minded person.
This alone does not account for the actions of the modern-day school/workplace shooters, however. The millions of Americans who are dependent upon behavior modification drugs may be comfortably numb, after all, but they are not all mindless killing machines. So the question to be asked is: was there a more direct form of mind control employed in the Littleton shootings? Were the boys subjected to trauma-based, hypnotic mind control techniques? And if so, were they mind controlled killers, or mind controlled patsies? This, alas, is where it becomes largely a matter of speculation.
An interesting book on the topic of mind control - or as it was then termed, brainwashing - gives us some clues as to what the two boys might have endured if they had been subjected to mind control. The book - Brainwashing and the Cults: An Expose on Capturing the Human Mind - is a rather obscure title published in 1977 by Paul A. Verdier, Ph.D., a psychiatrist/hypnotist and the director of the rather Orwellian sounding ‘Institute of Behavioral Conditioning.’
Verdier was, it can be safely deduced, what many mind control researchers refer to as an agency ‘spychiatrist.’ This is readily apparent in the rabid anti-communism that permeates the book, as well as the calls for greatly expanded use of mind control techniques in the future, albeit for ‘benevolent’ purposes. These are themes that are echoed in other agency contributions to this field of literature.
This particular spychiatrist veers dangerously close to revealing some truths about mind control operations however, all the while blaming everything on those damn Communists. He does though acknowledge that: "It must be accepted that brainwashing, once exclusively Russian and Chinese, is now being used here by devious persons with personal gain in mind."
It should first be noted that the notion that brainwashing was ever exclusively a tool of ‘Communist’ countries is blatantly disinformational. No less an authority on the subject than Richard Helms - who for many years was the primary overseer of the CIA’s MK-ULTRA program - testified in 1964 that: "Soviet research has consistently lagged five years behind Western research."
It is no doubt true though that mind control techniques are being used by "devious persons," or as Verdier later states: "brainwashing … is even more gruesomely practiced by an American criminal element." He even identifies some of the components of this ‘criminal element,’ including the Symbionese Liberation Army, the Manson Family, and "quasi-religious" organizations - especially Reverend Moon’s Unification Church.
Verdier also acknowledges that the alleged assassins of the Kennedy brothers - Sirhan Sirhan and Lee Harvey Oswald - both showed signs of being under the influence of mind control. If so, he assures us, it was the work of those bastard Russians. Verdier points accusingly at Oswald’s well publicized ‘defection’ to the Soviet Union and repeats the lie that: "Russia’s work in this subject is considerably advanced over ours."
What the doctor doesn’t mention is that all of the groups and individuals that he singles out as examples of the ‘criminal element’ have documented ties to U.S. intelligence services. The so-called Symbionese Liberation Army, for example, was the result of a CIA mind control project conducted at Vacaville Medical Facility under cover of the Black Cultural Association. The project was overseen by CIA asset Colton Westbrook, who from 1966 to 1969 was in Vietnam building interrogation/torture centers where Phoenix Program operatives could hammer wooden dowels into the brains of suspected Communists.
During that same timeframe, a man named Donald DeFreeze was working for the intelligence division of the Los Angeles Police Department, infiltrating and monitoring black militant groups. A couple years later, DeFreeze found himself in Vacaville where he became Westbrook’s most notorious research subject. He would emerge with the new moniker ‘Cinque,’ a name given him by Westbrook - who also coined the name and designed the seven-headed cobra logo for the group.
Manson had tantalizing connections to the CIA as well, including to a man named Ronald Stark who for a number of years was perhaps the world’s foremost trafficker in LSD, in both the U.S. and Europe. Many of the occult-based groups with which Manson was closely associated, including the Process Church, appear to be agency fronts as well, as discussed in There’s Something About Henry, Part III.
Both the SLA and the Manson Family, one assuming the form of a radical underground movement (a la the Weathermen), and the other taking on the appearance of a hippie commune, were by all appearances agency creations that were intended, among other things, to discredit those very movements that they were designed to mimic.
Decades earlier, preeminent CIA psychiatrist/hypnotist George Estabrooks had forecast such operations. In his seminal work - Hypnotism - he wrote: "we locate a number of good hypnotic subjects among the criminal class. We then isolate and train these subjects ... If allowed a free hand, the authorities could proceed to plant such prepared subjects from the criminal class where it would do the most good..."
As for the other perpetrators named by Verdier, the Unification Church has well-documented ties to South Korea’s intelligence network, which is by any honest appraisal a fully owned appendage of our own CIA. And of course Sirhan had been ‘treated’ by agency hypnotist William Jennings Bryan, while Oswald had CIA connections far too numerous to even begin to list here.
Verdier though wants to attribute the use of brainwashing in all these cases to either Communist influence or the actions of mysterious ‘devious persons.’ In the case of the Moonies, for instance, Verdier notes that: "Although Reverend Moon professes to be anti-communistic, he evidently does not hate Communists enough to hesitate in borrowing Mao’s tactics."
Moon is, of course, virulently anti-Communist, which is pretty much the required mind-set for all Western intelligence assets. And his tactics are, contrary to Verdier’s assertions, borrowed from the CIA and its various subsidiaries. But that doesn’t stop Verdier from finishing up his analysis of Moon with the following ridiculously disinformational and inflammatory passage: "Aliens are using the guise of Christian evangelism to garner zealots … There are many writings that propose that the next great invasion will be from the Orient … Our American culture must learn to resist this alien form of influence if it is to survive."
Apparently Verdier was reading a little too much Nostradamus at the time. Be that as it may, the author next proceeds to explain in general clinical terms how mind control works. He explains that human consciousness exists in the cerebral cortex, and that to brainwash someone, "an individual’s voluntary conscious self-control must be bypassed or short-circuited."
The goal is to access those areas of the brain that are outside of the conscious control of the individual by circumventing the normal inhibiting response of the cerebral cortex. To disable the brain’s "cortical block," Verdier recommends alcohol, euphoric drugs, isolation and solitary confinement, and - "the most dramatic and unique item in the brainwashing arsenal" - hypnosis.
To truly achieve lasting brainwashing, though, requires the creation of "profound and deep emotional states." Fear, shock and anxiety, for instance, have "an intense disinhibitive effect on the human brain." Better yet is pain. Verdier notes that this is because: "according to the eminent neurologist, Dr. Wilder Penfield, sensations of pain from the muscular sensory system enter the sub-cortical brain regions directly."
Given that Penfield - another CIA asset deeply involved in the MK-ULTRA program - was an associate of medical torture expert Dr. David Cameron in Toronto, one can only shudder when pondering the research that enabled him to reach that conclusion. Nevertheless, Verdier makes clear that pain and fear are among the most effective tools in the MK-ULTRA toolbox.
He writes that: "Russian political scientists do support the belief that given enough punishment, all the people in any time or place are susceptible to hypnotic control," closely echoing the words of the aforementioned George Estabrooks - who wrote that: "everyone could be thrown into the deepest state of hypnotism by the use of what [I] termed the Russian method - no holds barred, deliberate disintegration of the personality by psychic torture."
Verdier also echoes Estabrook’s belief that children are prime candidates for mind control operations. He states - seemingly with approval - that: "Brainwashing can be slow, insidious and sure when applied to children early in life," while adding that: "It is likely that there is a short period of time following corporal punishment when the child is in a state of decortication - hypnosis, so to speak. This is the ideal time to plant the positive instructions for better behavior in the future."
What the doctor considers ‘corporal punishment’ is left to the reader’s imagination. He does include a rather chilling passage, however, that is eerily reminiscent of the stories told around the country by survivors of ritual abuse, whose abusers, by the way, were not likely Communists:
"One of the most pronounced emotional experiences that a human being can undergo is having his or her life threatened. Threats of death are used as a basic tool by brainwashing Communists. Even among them, however, this threat is used sparingly, for they know that humans quickly adapt to this type of threat, especially if it is repeatedly given but never carried out. In order to avoid this routinization of stressful emotional situations, they have been known to casually execute prisoners for the apparent effect it has on others."
In the final chapter of the book, which Verdier has cheerfully entitled "Benevolent Brainwashing in the Future," Verdier sees a bright future for mind control, echoing the writings of yet another CIA asset, Dr. Jose Delgado. Verdier writes: "In the future, a change of purpose could modify the brainwashing process in order to make it a benevolent, rather than a malevolent, force for changing the human personality."
Verdier claims that many of America’s most pressing social problems could be solved by the judicious use of brainwashing: "The present human derelict will change from a social pariah to a socially contributive being … Education in the future could benefit tremendously from concentration conditioning. Accelerated learning could be assured through programmed instructions while the student is in a semi-hypnotic state of concentration … Besides greater efficiency in the areas of education, work, sports and social interaction, the most fruitful possibility will be the therapeutic conditioning for improved emotions or moods."
In other words, nearly every aspect of our life can be improved with a little bit of state-sponsored mind control programming. It’s a brave new fucking world out there. But what, you may well be asking, does all of this have to do with the shootings at Columbine High School? Maybe nothing, and maybe everything.
It will be recalled that the FBI agent who headed up the Littleton investigation was a man by the name of G. Dwayne Fuselier. It will also be recalled that Fuselier is, by vocation, a psychologist for the national security state. And finally, it will be recalled that Fuselier has two sons who were very close to the two alleged shooters, and who in fact assisted in the creation of a videotaped 'pre-enactment' of the crime.
All of this is very compelling in light of the fact that the man who wrote the Introduction to Verdier’s CIA-approved brainwashing exposé, and who claimed therein to have extensive knowledge of the techniques of mind control, was none other than an attorney by the name of R. Richard Fuselier. Now there’s a name you don’t run into every day. Is there a connection? Perhaps not, but it is certainly conceivable that the art of mind control is something of a Fuselier family tradition.
In any event, Verdier’s book sheds some much needed light on the decidedly controversial subject of mind control. This is a subject that has for too long been relegated to the sphere of ‘conspiracy theory’ literature. Respectable political researchers have steered well clear of the field, and the majority of Americans likely consider ‘mind control’ to be a preposterous notion.
This is certainly due at least in part to the fact that many of those in the ‘conspiracy’ field who have written on the subject tend to discredit their own work by introducing into the narrative such elements as UFO’s, parapsychological phenomena, and alien/human hybrids occupying underground military bases.
This is, alas, a common form of agency disinformation. The idea is to take a few elements of legitimate political conspiracies, toss them in the pot with all manner of nonsensical gibberish, and then stir the whole reeking concoction and serve it up to confused readers, thereby tainting everything in the mix. In other words, the conspiracy field is loaded with spooks posing as researchers/journalists, perhaps more so than any other field of political reporting.
The fact remains though that over the years, bits and pieces of the truth have managed to surface above the slime, though no one much likes to talk about them and these works are infrequently referenced by ‘researchers.’ Paul Verdier’s book is one example of this, along with George Estabrooks’ Hypnotism.
Estabrooks’ seminal work, published before the CIA even existed, demonstrates that U.S. intelligence services were aware of the effectiveness of mind control techniques before the frequently misrepresented and misunderstood MK-ULTRA program was ever instituted. The truth is that the program was not about unlocking the secrets of mind control; those were already known.
What the program was really about was refining and perfecting the techniques, and the study of how to extend these principles to achieve control on a society-wide basis. The extent to which these wide-ranging studies affect our daily lives cannot possibly be overstated: from the advertising that permeates our culture to the propaganda that passes for popular entertainment, from the sound and light technology that creates the distinctive movie-going experience to the killing simulation technology marketed to our kids as games, and from the mass drugging of America to the recurring tragedies that we suffer as a nation, MK-ULTRA is literally all around us.
The assassination of President Kennedy was, in the final analysis, a nationwide MK-ULTRA project, designed to inflict massive trauma on the entire country and to thereby affect a significant change in the collective consciousness of the American people. And as public opinion polls taken before and after the assassination clearly showed, the experiment was a successful one.
Some of the most revered names on the political left have steadfastly claimed that there was no conspiracy behind the death of Kennedy. This has been based on the notion that the reasons given for the assassination in the conspiracy literature do not hold up to investigation. Simply stated, Kennedy was no hero of the progressive crowd.
These writers have argued that Kennedy in fact had no intention of disengaging from the Vietnam war, or of disbanding the CIA, or of normalizing relations with Cuba and the Eastern block, or of waging a serious war on organized crime - motives frequently given by assassination researchers. And there is little doubt that this was in fact the case.
However, to deduce from this that Oswald therefore acted alone as per the Warren Report is, to put it rather bluntly, ludicrous. The truth is that anyone who has made a serious study of the Warren Report - and the vast amount of evidence refuting it - and who claims that the report is a fine piece of investigative reporting, is either a liar or a fool. The Warren Report was without a doubt one of the most shameful frauds ever foisted upon the American people.
This fact should be obvious to any reasonably well-informed person simply by the make-up of the committee that fashioned the report, a group that was permeated with spooks and Nazi collaborators of the most vile nature, including Allen Dulles - whose efforts on behalf of Nazi Germany could easily fill an entire book and then some, not to mention the central role he played in numerous assassination and coup plots - and John J. McCloy, who sat in Adolf Hitler’s private box seats at the 1936 Berlin Olympic Games at the personal invitation of Rudolf Hess and Hermann Goering, and who also served for a year as an ‘adviser’ to the Mussolini regime in Italy on behalf of his Wall Street law firm.
In 1951, while serving as the U.S. Military Governor and High Commissioner of Germany, McCloy granted early release to the majority of the Nazi war criminals who had been sentenced at Nuremberg, after they had served but a few years of their sentences for committing some of the most abominable crimes of the twentieth century. Are these really men we should trust to tell us the truth about the assassination of the president?
What then are we to make of the Kennedy assassination? If Kennedy was not killed for the reasons generally given, but was indeed the victim of a conspiracy, what then was the motive? The answer may well lie in the fact that Kennedy was a wildly popular President, beloved by a wide swath of American society. As such, his assassination elicited a visceral reaction from the populace, a feeling for many of not just losing a president, but of losing innocence, trust and hope.
Despite the fact that Kennedy was certainly an insider (his father was, after all, an active Nazi collaborator during World War II as America's ambassador to the UK), he may well have been sacrificed precisely because he was so popular. And the truth may well be that the assassination was not really an attack on Kennedy at all, but was in fact an attack against the American people as a whole.
That is precisely why the assassination was conducted in the most public way possible, to insure that the event had the maximum impact on the American psyche. Largely the same can be said of the shootings in Littleton, which brings us back to where we began - at Columbine High. The point here is that the slaughter there was itself an MK-ULTRA project, regardless of whether the individual actors who conducted it were themselves victims of mind control.
And since we’re now back on the subject of mind control, it should be stated that Dr. Estabrooks was hardly breaking new ground in 1943 when he wrote of the existence of the practice. Decades before, another published account told a remarkably similar story, albeit in a very different context. This account told of a wondrous new development in the field of obstetric medicine, though the principles could easily be applied for other purposes:
"Now, it is claimed that just such a method has been perfected in Germany, which country we are assured, stands at the very head of obstetric science. This method produces that peculiar modification of consciousness known as ‘Twilight Sleep’ … Scopolamine is the name of the drug relied on to produce the sleep … At least one alienist (Hoche) finds it useful in quieting excited patients, as it seems to have hypnotic influence."
Those familiar with the literature will recognize that scopolamine was one of first drugs to be extensively tested under the rubric of the MK-ULTRA program. The account continues: "Its modern use in obstetrics was initiated by Dr. Von Steinbuchel of Frieburg in 1903 … More than fifty years before that date, Sir James Simpson had shown that chloroform given in minute quantities and repeated doses produced a state of consciousness on the border line between painful consciousness on the one hand and complete narcosis on the other … Dr. Von Steinbuchel simply replaced chloroform by scopolamine in his experiments, using morphine as a preliminary narcotic."
A description is then given as to how the procedure works, a description that closely parallels that given by Verdier some seven decades later: "in some way, the higher centers of consciousness in the cerebrum are ‘cut-off,’ so that though the lower centers in the cerebellum are awake and attending to all the animal activities of life, yet when the sleep passes away, the patient awakes, and the higher centers resume their rule, but with no recollection of what has passed … [the patient] will be amenable to suggestions. When the doctor tells her to work harder - push harder - she obeys. But all this time, the higher centers are ‘cut-off’."
The book gives a glowing recommendation to the technique: "The Frieburg doctors, under the lead of Gauss have worked out the many details of what they consider the proper method to follow in securing Twilight Sleep. All these steps are collectively known as the technique … physicians by the score hurried to Frieburg to learn at first hand its technique, and many hospitals, not only in Germany, but in this country as well, concluded to resume experiments … Consequently we conclude that twilight sleep is not a passing fad but is a practical means of race betterment; consequently this method will be developed and improved…"
These words were written nearly a century ago in a book entitled, appropriately enough I suppose, Eugenics: The Science of Human Life. And don’t even get me started on the subject of Eugenics, or this article may never wrap up. The truth about mind control though is that the concept has been around for literally hundreds of years.
When Marco Polo returned from his explorations of Asia in 1298, he told stories of a cult-like group of controlled assassins based in a fortified valley in Persia. Led by a man named Allahudin, the feared group was known as the Ashishin. They were said to be controlled by, among other things, the use of drugs. It is from the name of this group that we get - appropriately enough - the word hashish. And it is also from this cult that we get - even more appropriately - the word assassin. For the very word 'assassin,' as it turns out, originally referred to a mind-controlled killer, over 700 years ago.

Sources:
1. Bain, Donald The Control of Candy Jones, Playboy Press, 1976
2. Black, David Acid: The Secret History of LSD, Vision, 1998
3. Bowart, Walter Operation Mind Control, Dell Publishing, 1978
4. Delgado, Jose M.R. Physical Control of the Mind, Harper Colophon, 1969
5. Estabrooks, George Hypnotism, Dutton, 1943
6. Lee, Martin and Bruce Shlain Acid Dreams, Grove Press, 1985
7. Martin, Harry V. and David Caul "Mind Control," Napa Sentinel, August-November 1991
8. Sanders, Ed The Family, E.P. Dutton, 1971
9. Verdier, Paul A. Brainwashing and the Cults, Wilshire Book Company, 1977
10. Zepezauer, Mark The CIA's Greatest Hits, Common Courage Press, 1994
11. Various Authors Eugenics: The Science of Human Life, The S.A. Mullikin Company, 1911
12. Encyclopaedia Britannica, http://web.archive.org/web/20010206033106/http://www.britannica.com/

http://www.whale.to/b/mcgowan.html

nomad
09-07-2005, 06:15 PM
Draken wrote:
Quite.

People are willing to believe the existence of aliens but not the NWO conspiracy, of which there is FAR BETTER AND MORE EVIDENCE.

If you ask me, the alien abduction is more likely to be secret scientific/military experiments with implanted memories to cover their tracks.


I have to agree with you Draken ... "alien"

abduction allows them to implant chips (see

a video where they actually found a physical chip

in one abductee) ... it allows them to experiment

with planted memories and create a new

religion ...

all if it fits PERFECTLY for their goals.

this
09-07-2005, 06:51 PM
Regarding evidence of past societies, the controversial figure of Cayce draws links between biblical accounts such as Atlantis and it's nuclear power for instance.

The timeline for humans was interesting I seem to remember. Something about 10 million years, where humans and dinosaurs did co-exist.

There is a well researched article that I have put up here several times that debunks Sitchin's research. You might find it under a David Icke thread.

this
09-15-2005, 10:55 PM
http://www.truthcampaign.ukf.net/articles/conspiracies/etagenda.html

I've posted this article at least 3 times on CC in relation to one thing or another. It's worth a read.

Arjuna
09-16-2005, 01:12 AM
this:
Thank you for posting this link again.

The referenced website offers a compelling argument. Whether or not ETs have a real presence on earth, it is clear that most of the literature related to ET phenomena is bogus, and the Illuminati is weaving a grand deception around this subject. Some of my beliefs have obviously been based on false information.

I saw a UFO in broad daylight about 15 years ago in Phoenix, Arizona. It was absolutely stunning, and I am certain I was not imagining it. I am now convinced that what I saw may have been a man-made phenomenon. Regardless of the origins of what I witnessed, the man-made conspiracy of disinformation surrounding so-called ET phenomena plays a significant role in the ongoing Illuminati agenda to manipulate and enslave humanity.

ETs and Ancient Astronauts are Illuminati Propaganda
http://www.truthcampaign.ukf.net/articles/conspiracies/etagenda.html

If there are intergalactic travelling ETs out there in the universe, they are not being accurately represented by what seems to be the vast majority of writers. They are in fact being misrepresented by the Illuminati’s agents and victims of their massive propaganda campaign to hide very real Earth-based technology, as well as to bring in a new religion tailor-made for the New Aquarian age; just as Christianity was tailor made to update and absorb all previous religions to be used as a tool of social control for the Piscean Age.

That is, IF there are any intergalactic travelling aliens out there at all, and the whole thing hasn’t been a flight of fantasy and disinformation altogether. Isn’t it more probable that we have been victims of our own imaginations, fed by deliberately misleading propaganda and expectation implanted by the media and sci-fi writers of the past century?
--------------------------------
Myth-making is more rampant today than it ever was in our past. Myths are creating myths at such a pace today that it is becoming increasingly difficult to trace them to their origins. The average ET and UFO enthusiast now has enough material to last them a lifetime’s reading. And still, they may never read a truthful work.

If we extrapolate this process a couple of decades into the future, how much material will there be like Sitchin’s and the new revisions of such works, that will provide for your average reader overwhelming evidence of the ETs in UFOs and ancient ET gods from space?

It will be so easy then to reign-in the diversity of ideas and beliefs into a central thesis which would contain and ‘explain’ all enigmas relating to the subject, thereby leaving us with a narrow frame of reference, a core belief system, which would carefully be fashioned into a New World Religion. One which not only unites all world religions, but also updates them and explains away the contradictions.

Sounds unlikely, I agree. But it has happened before. The Romans played the same trick when they created New Testament Christianity. They combined elements from all the religions and cults in their empire and then imposed it upon the world. And the tyrants of the ages have used it since then as a means to manipulate the world, causing untold suffering and destruction of knowledge over the past 2000 years. It was the ultimate tool in the Illuminati’s arsenal, but it’s effectiveness has waned as knowledge has progressed and fewer people are willing to accept the authority of the Bible and its priests. However, a new scientifically up to date version of the old mythologies could be a supremely powerful tool in the Illuminati’s arsenal if it were handled correctly.
--------------------------------
We are all searching for answers – and ultimately ‘the Answer’ to life, the universe and everything – just as did our ancient forebears. And we are just as liable to get the answers wrong, or misinterpret the data, or have others manipulate us with that same data as were our ancient forebears.

Faith, as professed by many religions, is a great and powerful thing, but blind faith in what we are told to believe, without reasonable verification against the known facts, is one of the most easily manipulated and destructive factors in our history.

It is time for us to become active thinkers rather than passive receivers, if we are ever going to understand ourselves and our place in Creation. And if we fail to understand this, then we will simply continue to be marionettes going round and round in circles, or whichever direction the string-pullers wish to move us.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 01:25 AM
I believe assuming their are far greater civilizations..."out there"...is to deny the wonder we have..."right here".

It is a dumping of our personal responsability for being Gods highest creation.

We see filthy humans all around and life everywhere, and find it in the end, quite boring.

That life exists at all is a complete and utter miracle.

Because we live such comfortable lives and have not experienced the fleeting nature of existence we shove it back in the creators face.

In the end...I cannot say that Aliens do not scurry about my rooftop in the wee small hours. What can I say to someone who swares black and blue that little monkeys with cats faces exist in the southern regions of West Oz, or that he has been visited by said aliens since he was a kid. Hope it's all true coz he's in a responsible position in society!

The Universe may be big and old, but that does not negate the fact that we may in fact be the ONLY life experiment in it for all practical purposes.

I prefer to take the cross upon my own back and not wait for the Alien rescue.

Respectfully, each to his own.

BTW...pretty soon "Konspiracy Kooks" will be catered for in 2 ways...firstly as a "counter cultural" money maker and then as a force to be dealt with by our Globalist Masters...who will be the first "Konspiracy Kook" to be featured on prime time? Clue...last name starts with "I".

Arjuna
09-16-2005, 09:13 AM
With due respect, truebeliever:

I believe assuming there are far greater civilizations..."out there"...is to deny the wonder we have..."right here".

This belief is akin to believing that the discovery that the earth is round and that the American continents exist denied the wonder of living in flat earth Europe. It is an example of narrow-mindedness.

It is a dumping of our personal responsibility for being Gods highest creation.

I do not know what God’s highest creation is, but I am confident that it is not me. Whether or not ETs exist, I believe my personal responsibility to live my life to the best of my ability is the same.

We see filthy humans all around and life everywhere, and find it in the end, quite boring.

Speak for yourself. I find life on earth quite interesting. The prospect of life elsewhere is also interesting.

That life exists at all is a complete and utter miracle.

That anything at all exists is also a miracle. In my opinion, the existence of life anywhere increases the probability that life also exists somewhere else.

Because we live such comfortable lives and have not experienced the fleeting nature of existence we shove it back in the creators face.

Again, please speak for yourself. I have a fairly comfortable life, and I am experiencing the fleeting nature of existence. I am open to the possibility that the creator decided to create intelligent life on more than one planet.

The Universe may be big and old, but that does not negate the fact that we may in fact be the ONLY life experiment in it for all practical purposes.

Our ancestors did not understand the size and age of the universe. It was logical for them to believe that life only existed on earth. An improved understanding of the size and age of the universe makes it logical to conclude that life might exist on other planets also.

I prefer to take the cross upon my own back and not wait for the Alien rescue.

I agree. Whether or not ETs exist, I believe my personal responsibility is the same. Also, I do not have enough information to conclude that the Alien presence on earth, assuming it exists, is benevolent or malevolent.

Respectfully, each to his own.

I totally agree. I believe that is the correct attitude for discussing topics on this forum, whether with me, or Nexuseuss, or anyone else.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 10:38 AM
Good for you.

Not joining my Kingdom these days?

My style will never change. Get used to it. I give as I get. Try the .."with respect" then allude to my idiocy in the same breath and you get a fucking typo full. That goes for you too Alien Idiot.

You have seen an "object" in the sky. Get over it.

While you wank on about the possibilities of Aliens giving you a free ride to the planet Timbuktoo you place your energies where our masters want it.

Anywhere but where it needs to be.

Enjoy fucking Icke and Co. Along with the rest of the fruitcakes coz thats EXACTLY what you are. No more, no less. You are DESTROYING the anti globalist movement with your bullshit.

Thats what I really think about you. Every last one of you freakin alien kooks.

Oh, i forgot..."with respect"...

P.S..you had to put your response in big letters. Was that to convince you a little more of yourself?

freeman
09-16-2005, 10:42 AM
Somewhere lurking amongst these CC threads is a post citing an article written by a clergymen who takes the ubiquitous approach of assuming that all current explanations for UFOs are valid. Some may be fabricated by the NWO (even using the "magick" of Draken's mass hynposis techniques), some may represent high-tech military projects, and some may actually be genuine. In keeping with their Hegelian objectives, the Illuminati probably want to confuse us all as much as possible in regard to this subject and thereby profit from the induced conflict. That seems most logical to me. I also think there is a lot of evidence to indicate that many of these "demon" entities may be interdimensional rather than extraterrestrial, i. e., residing in this world on another plane of existence.
I am convinced that I have seen a lot of UFO disinfo propagated by those in authority, yet there are also some inexplicable accounts there are hard to debunk, as well as some incongruous details, such as why is the U. S. space program still piddling around with that obsolete space shuttle program if we have access to advanced alien spacecraft via Area 51 and other sources? :-?

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 10:44 AM
I do not know what God’s highest creation is, but I am confident that it is not me.

Never a truer word spoken.

Your New Age credentials speak wonders and that comment sums it up.

You will do well in the coming order. A man open to anything and all things and easily led by the nose like a dog by it's master and a lamb to the slaughter.

You do not know God nor truth...only endless speculation and shifting sands while denying what is before your eyes.

May the Aliens take you and your bretheren soon.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 10:50 AM
FREEMAN..."with respect"...God I love that line!

ALL...i repeat ALL Alien crap is...C-R-A-P...

It is high tech and the Pentagon is laughing.

I have seen a "glowing woman" standing over me as sure as I type right now. I have seen and heard things standing directly in fron of me calling me to my own death...as real as myself at the keyboard...all brought on by sleep deprivation and as real as the setting Sun this evening.

It is the human mind...most powerful...and bored little humans who possess...NOTHING in themselves who must endlessly speculate on whether Aliens will be probing their anus's like a lottery win in the night! Oh the excitement of it all!

There ya go...rot in hell Icke and all of the Alien Kook nutters with you.

With "respect" of course FREEMAN... :-D

And I'll throw Rense in their too.

Just how is it Alex Jones is beaten by this man in the internet "hit's" polls I will never know.

Rense and Icke are the Globalists BEST friends!

Welcome to the jungle baby...

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 11:35 AM
Some of my beliefs have obviously been based on false information.

Oh, my heart is touched! ARJUNA is a "reasonable" man...tell us more ARJUNA...

If there are intergalactic travelling ETs out there in the universe, they are not being accurately represented by what seems to be the vast majority of writers. They are in fact being misrepresented by the Illuminati’s agents and victims of their massive propaganda campaign to hide very real Earth-based technology, as well as to bring in a new religion tailor-made for the New Aquarian age;

Why yes! Could'nt agree more!

...just as Christianity was tailor made to update and absorb all previous religions to be used as a tool of social control for the Piscean Age.

Oooops! Spoke too soon, there's the right hook after the feint to the left!

That is, IF there are any intergalactic travelling aliens out there at all, and the whole thing hasn’t been a flight of fantasy and disinformation altogether. Isn’t it more probable that we have been victims of our own imaginations, fed by deliberately misleading propaganda and expectation implanted by the media and sci-fi writers of the past century?

Why yes, yes, and yes...

Myth-making is more rampant today than it ever was in our past. Myths are creating myths at such a pace today that it is becoming increasingly difficult to trace them to their origins. The average ET and UFO enthusiast now has enough material to last them a lifetime’s reading. And still, they may never read a truthful work.

Yes, and thats the plan...to keep you reading S-H-I-T.

It will be so easy then to reign-in the diversity of ideas and beliefs into a central thesis which would contain and ‘explain’ all enigmas relating to the subject, thereby leaving us with a narrow frame of reference, a core belief system, which would carefully be fashioned into a New World Religion. One which not only unites all world religions, but also updates them and explains away the contradictions.

Wow! So Christs Ministry was nothing more than Alien Abduction: circa...water walking and flogging money changers out of temples! By golly! The reasoning is superb! Tell us more ARJUNA...

Sounds unlikely, I agree.

Me too but lets not let that stop us from theorizing some more...

But it has happened before. The Romans played the same trick when they created New Testament Christianity. They combined elements from all the religions and cults in their empire and then imposed it upon the world. And the tyrants of the ages have used it since then as a means to manipulate the world, causing untold suffering and destruction of knowledge over the past 2000 years.

Too right! That bastard Christ running about making people submit to tyrants! Oh, what an evil bastard that Christ was! Thank God they crucififed him! Boy, you should read the 4 Gospels ARJUNA...you might learn something...

It was the ultimate tool in the Illuminati’s arsenal, but it’s effectiveness has waned as knowledge has progressed and fewer people are willing to accept the authority of the Bible and its priests. However, a new scientifically up to date version of the old mythologies could be a supremely powerful tool in the Illuminati’s arsenal if it were handled correctly.

Wow! So the Illuminati invented Christianity! What a superb turnabout! And now they are busy tearing it down right? Eh...ARJUNA?

We are all searching for answers –

Actually i'm looking for questions like how much shit can this Illuminati inspired shit spew in a given amount of time in the time space continuum both here and on the planet Beezelbub...

and ultimately ‘the Answer’ to life, the universe and everything – just as did our ancient forebears. And we are just as liable to get the answers wrong, or misinterpret the data, or have others manipulate us with that same data as were our ancient forebears.

So our ancient forebears including the Christ got it wrong? Well thanks you lot! Nobondy bothered to tell me until now! Give me more f-a-c-t-s ARJUNA...

Faith, as professed by many religions, is a great and powerful thing, but blind faith in what we are told to believe, without reasonable verification against the known facts, is one of the most easily manipulated and destructive factors in our history.

"Oh dem facts dem facts dem "known" facts...here da word of da new Lord" Please give us the "new" facts...i cant wait to hear them!!!!!!

It is time for us to become active thinkers rather than passive receivers, if we are ever going to understand ourselves and our place in Creation. And if we fail to understand this, then we will simply continue to be marionettes going round and round in circles, or whichever direction the string-pullers wish to move us.

Oh by golly have words so true EVER been spoken...

God how the Illuminati/Materialists/Rationalists just LOVE facts. They love em! Coz they "have" em!

Please hurry Lord...come blazing at the right hand of the Father so I do not have to read this New Age S-H-I-T for a millisecond longer than nescessary.

And fuck peace ARJUNA...i bring a sword...to cut the heads off a nest of Vipers.

Slither away...

freeman
09-16-2005, 11:59 AM
I look at it this way: demons are demons, no matter where they come from. Real or conjured up. Alien or indigenous. Reject them all.
If any of these extraterrestrial life forms were actually benevolent, they would not be hiding from mankind. They would come out in the open, just as God has done.
As that article about the Ascended Masters I posted indicated, there is considerable evidence in the Bible to indicate that demonic lifeforms have visited earth, even intermarried with humans (forming the bloodline of the Illuminiati, as Springmeier postulates?). Satan is spoken of having his legions of followers the same as the angels of heaven. Who these legions are and what forms they may or may not assume is irrelevant.
I agree that all of the credible evidence I have accumulated shows this conspiracy peaking well short of Icke's reptilian aliens. Yet the question remains, who is at the top of the conspiracy? Who if anyone controls the Rothschilds, Rockefellers and the other Satanic families at the pinnacle of the pyramid? The closest I have been able to deterimne is Satan himself, as evidenced by the Satanic festivals and orgies regularly held amongst the top Illuminati families, some of which have supposedly even conjured up images of Lucifer himself. Yet what is Lucifer, what does he represent? An advanced lifeform like God, existing primarily on the spiritual level? Interdimensional, shapeshifting? And why do the Illuminati display a collective sociopathic, almost reptilian mentality? Too many questions remain unanwered.
This is where the trail ends for me at the moment, so I haven't closed the door entirely.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 12:10 PM
God and Satan get on just fine.

God loves Satan...when he's bowing his head in submission.

When the human ego bounds off into New Age la la land it gets itself into a right mess as it seperates from God and decides that it is God and can make it up as it goes along.

There are NO aliens, no demons and no angels...just the psychic potential of human beings to aline itself with 3 billion years of collected wisdom or disconnect from the rest of the human race by denying human feeling and instinctual patterns (which includes the striving for spiritual ideals) and into a swamp of feel good, i believe in anything, i tolerate ALL ideas, i stand for nothing coz i love the U.N and they have laws for "tolerence"...for anything.

There are "ultimate" values. They reside in our DNA. They have ensured the evoloution from single cell aomeba to multi cell miracle capable of starting a dialouge with God.

ALL else is mindless twaddle.

Make a stand. Or stand for nothing. There are no prizes for being nice.

I know bullshit when I see and smell it.

The Kali age is upon us...a never ending sea of shit one has to wade through.

Arjuna
09-16-2005, 12:10 PM
Freeman said:
“In keeping with their Hegelian objectives, the Illuminati probably want to confuse us all as much as possible in regard to this subject and thereby profit from the induced conflict. That seems most logical to me. I also think there is a lot of evidence to indicate that many of these "demon" entities may be interdimensional rather than extraterrestrial, i. e., residing in this world on another plane of existence.”

I agree. As stated above, I do not know whether or not physical ETs exist, though I suspect they do, and I do not know whether or not they are benevolent or malevolent, though I suspect both types exist. This website claims to know about both types:

Variety of Alien Beings Known To Interact With Humans
http://illuminati-news.com/ufos-and-aliens/html/variety_of_aliens.htm

I am much more confident regarding the existence of interdimensional beings, and I believe there are both benevolent and malevolent beings in this group; ie. there exist both angels and demons on earth.

In addition to having seen a UFO in broad daylight, I also once saw three ghosts in my bedroom in the middle of the night. I was sound asleep, and I was suddenly awakened by what seemed like a loud voice inside my head. I looked up, and floating above me against a slightly illuminated background were three white ghosts. I could see the profiles of their distinctly different faces. They had shoulders, but below that their bodies tailed off into thin wisps. I felt that they were friends of mine, though I could not name them. I was grateful for the opportunity to see them in that manner. The experience lasted between 5 and 10 seconds, then they disappeared and the room went dark. I believe they were interdimensional beings, friendly ghosts.

I also once had a roommate who considered himself a warlock. At the time I considered witchcraft to be total nonsense. I know better now. One night I had a vivid waking dream in which I saw the demon that possessed him superimposed on his face, including deep red eyes. I was so scared by the experience that I thought I might have a heart attack. I packed up my belongings and moved out that same day, and I have had virtually no contact with him since.

TB: Not joining my Kingdom these days?

Sorry, but I will pass for now. I believe you have leadership potential. I will reassess my desire for membership in your kingdom after you have composed yourself for a period of time.

TB: My style will never change. Get used to it. I give as I get. Try the .."with respect" then allude to my idiocy in the same breath and you get a fucking typo full. That goes for you too Alien Idiot.

I respectfully disagree. You have affirmed a desire to improve your character and demeanor at this forum. I believe that you will change, and in the future you will be a better person than you are now. By the way, I did not call you an idiot. I simply noted that a statement you made appears to me to be narrow-minded. I suggest that you work on your ability to handle opposing points of view.

TB: You have seen an "object" in the sky. Get over it.

Why should I? It is one of my favorite memories. It was a truly exciting experience.

TB: While you wank on about the possibilities of Aliens giving you a free ride to the planet Timbuktoo you place your energies where our masters want it.

You must be talking about someone else. I stated clearly that I accept responsibility for my own life, and I am unsure whether or not ETs, assuming they exist, are benevolent or malevolent. Who was talking about a “free ride”?

TB: P.S..you had to put your response in big letters. Was that to convince you a little more of yourself?

I did it to highlight my response to you, and to get your attention. I was very disappointed in the tone of your response to me.

I said: I do not know what God’s highest creation is, but I am confident that it is not me.

TB: Never a truer word spoken. Your New Age credentials speak wonders and that comment sums it up.

I don’t have a problem with not being the greatest. In fact, it comforts me to believe that beings greater than me, for example Jesus, exist. As for my New Age credentials, what are you talking about?

TB: You do not know God nor truth...only endless speculation and shifting sands while denying what is before your eyes.

Please reread your response to me today, and then try to convince yourself that you know God and truth. If you can’t do it, please don’t give up. It is a worthy goal worth striving toward.

This forum is a community sandbox in which we all engage in speculation and conjecture. Disagreement is a necessary aspect of the process by which we increase our understanding of the truth. You have strong opinions, and I agree with many of them. I do not appreciate it at all when you throw sand at me for disagreeing with you. I have observed you behaving in a similar manner with other posters. I believe that you have a character flaw, and I believe that, given sufficient effort, you can rectify it. I encourage you to make the effort.

I have taken the time to respond to your insults because, in spite of your shortcomings, I like you, and I have learned a great deal from you at this forum. I still believe that you have a great destiny, and I am still cheering for your victory.

By the way, in your last post to me, your are responding to excerpts taken from the referenced website, except for the first quote, which is me speaking.

ETs and Ancient Astronauts are Illuminati Propaganda
http://www.truthcampaign.ukf.net/articles/conspiracies/etagenda.html

However, I will note that I agree with those quoted excerpts.

I said: Some of my beliefs have obviously been based on false information.

TB: Oh, my heart is touched! ARJUNA is a "reasonable" man...tell us more ARJUNA...

I read the article, and I learned something that caused me to change some beliefs, and hopefully improve my understanding of the truth. I really do not understand why you choose to insult me for admitting this.

nohope187
09-16-2005, 12:12 PM
truebeliever wrote:
[Oh by golly have words so true EVER been spoken...

God how the Illuminati/Materialists/Rationalists just LOVE facts. They love em! Coz they "have" em!

Please hurry Lord...come blazing at the right hand of the Father so I do not have to read this New Age S-H-I-T for a millisecond longer than nescessary.

And fuck peace ARJUNA...i bring a sword...to cut the heads off a nest of Vipers.

Slither away...ROFL :-P

freeman
09-16-2005, 12:20 PM
When the human ego bounds off into New Age la la land it gets itself into a right mess as it seperates from God and decides that it is God and can make it up as it goes along.

With that I agree. That is how this mess got started. Men chasing off after false secular wisdom in the vain hope of elevating themselves to godlike status. Men following Satan, the great impersonator of God.
As far as the rest, I remain skeptical of people like Icke, but openmined in the sense that I have learned one must be eclectic in the search for truth. As I have said (too many times), every deceiver wraps in his lies in an attractive packaging of truth. That doesn't mean we should throw away the wrapping paper, too.

Arjuna
09-16-2005, 12:46 PM
TB: And fuck peace ARJUNA...i bring a sword...to cut the heads off a nest of Vipers.

Although I sometimes do not like your style, I do respect your determination to defend yourself against perceived threats.

I have a sword also. Let me tell you about it. I will quote one of my favorite books. Lest you think it is New Age, I want you to know that best estimates place its compilation somewhere between 500 BC and 500 AD, the same time frame during which the Bible was compiled.

from the Bhagavad Gita, chapter 2, translated by Juan Mascaro

Sanjaya:
Then arose the Spirit of Krishna and spoke to Arjuna, his friend, who with eyes filled with tears, thus had sunk into despair and grief.


Krishna:
Whence this lifeless dejection, Arjuna, in this hour, the hour of trial? Strong men know not despair, Arjuna, for this wins neither heaven nor earth.

Fall not into degrading weakness, for this becomes not a man who is a man. Throw off this ignoble discouragement, and arise like a fire that burns all before it.

Arjuna:
I owe veneration to Bhishma and Drona. Shall I kill with my arrows my grandfather's brother, great Bhishma? Shall my arrows in battle slay Drona, my teacher?

Shall I kill my own masters who, though greedy of my kingdom, are yet my sacred teachers? I would rather eat in this life the food of a beggar than eat royal food tasting of their blood.

And we know not whether their victory or ours be better for us. The sons of my uncle and king, Dhrita-rashtra, are here before us: after their death, should we wish to live?

In the dark night of my soul I feel desolation. In my self-pity I see not the way of righteousness. I am thy disciple, come to thee in supplication: be a light unto me on the path to my duty.

For neither the kingdom of the earth, nor the kingdom of the gods in heaven, could give me peace from the fire of sorrow which thus burns my life.

Sanjaya:
When Arjuna the great warrior had thus unburdened his heart, 'I will not fight, Krishna,' he said, and then fell silent.

Krishna smiled and spoke to Arjuna -- there between the two armies the voice of God spoke these words:

Krishna:
Thy tears are for those beyond tears; and are thy words words of wisdom? The wise grieve not for those who live; and they grieve not for those who die -- for life and death shall pass away.

Because we all have been for a time: I, and thou, and those kings of men. And we all shall be for all time, we all for ever and ever.

As the Spirit of our mortal body wanders on in childhood, and youth and old age, the Spirit wanders on to a new body: of this the sage has no doubts.

From the world of the senses, Arjuna, comes heat and comes cold, and pleasure and pain. They come and they go: they are transient. Arise above them, strong soul.

The man whom these cannot move, whose soul is one, beyond pleasure and pain, is worthy of life in Eternity.

The unreal never is: the Real never is not. This truth indeed has been seen by those who can see the true.

Interwoven in his creation, the Spirit is beyond destruction. No one can bring to an end the Spirit which is everlasting.

For beyond time he dwells in these bodies, though these bodies have an end in their time, but he remains immeasurable, immortal. Therefore, great warrior, carry on thy fight.

If any man thinks he slays, and if another thinks he is slain, neither knows the ways of truth. The Eternal in man cannot kill: the Eternal in man cannot die.

He is never born, and he never dies. He is in eternity: he is for evermore. Never-born and eternal, beyond times gone or to come, he does not die when the body dies.

When a man knows him as never-born, everlasting, never-changing, beyond all destruction, how can that man kill a man, or cause another to kill?

As a man leaves an old garment and puts on one that is new, the Spirit leaves his mortal body and then puts on one that is new.

Weapons cannot hurt the Spirit and fire can never burn him. Untouched is he by drenching waters, untouched is he by parching winds.

Beyond the power of sword and fire, beyond the power of waters and winds, the Spirit is everlasting, omnipresent, never-changing, never-moving, ever One.

Invisible is he to mortal eyes, beyond thought and beyond change. Know that he is, and cease from sorrow.

But if he were born again and again, and again and again he were to die, even then, victorious man, cease thou from sorrow.

For all things born in truth must die, and out of death in truth comes life. Face to face with what must be, cease thou from sorrow.

Invisible before birth are all beings and after death invisible again. They are the seen between two unseens. Why in this truth find sorrow?

One sees him in a vision of wonder, and another gives us words of his wonder. There is one who hears of his wonder; but he hears and knows him not.

The Spirit that is in all beings is immortal in them all: for the death of what cannot die, cease thou to sorrow.

Think thou also of thy duty and do not waver. There is no greater good for a warrior than to fight in a righteous war.

There is a war that opens the doors of heaven, Arjuna! Happy are the warriors whose fate is to fight such war.

But to forgo this fight for righteousness is to forgo thy duty and honour: is to fall into transgression.

Men will tell of thy dishonour both now and in times to come. And to a man who is in honour, dishonour is more than death.

The great warriors will say that thou hast run from the battle through fear; and those who thought great things of thee will speak of thee in scorn.

And thine enemies will speak of thee in contemptuous words of ill-will and derision, pouring scorn upon thy courage. Can there be for a warrior a more shamefull fate?

In death thy glory in heaven, in victory thy glory on earth. Arise therefore, Arjuna, with thy soul ready to fight.

Saturnino
09-16-2005, 01:17 PM
TB,
You need to spend some time in Brazil, I'm sure you would be convinced of demons... my grandmother was head of a spiritist center, and I can tell you those things exist indeed. The freakers will tell you the color of your underwear, the time your grandfather told you that story when you were 6, etc.
Fortunately I have also seen deliverance and the power of Jesus name to break all this activity.
And of course, the Bible is full of accounts of demons.
You First World people remind me of that German tourist that went to see a macumba session for fun and ended up on the floor, possessed.He he he...

Draken
09-16-2005, 05:35 PM
Yet what is Lucifer, what does he represent? An advanced lifeform like God, existing primarily on the spiritual level? Interdimensional, shapeshifting?

You guys all seem to agree upon the duality between God and Satan. Like they are two entities, one good and one evil.
Also, I've heard a lot of you credit Satan with power in his own right.

My girlfriend pointed to another way of looking at it which I find logical.

Like Light and Darkness and the symbiosis between them; so is it with God and Satan: the lack of Light gives Darkness; hence, the lack of God gives Satan.

Actually, God is Everything. If you fill yourself with God then there is no place for Satan. That is why it is crucial for Communism (and was crucial for Lenin) to first force the people to deny God before he could rob them of their souls. Communism succeeded in taking God away from Man, and that leaves Man totally open for Evil and false doctrines. The lack of God is the "having" of Satan, if you understand my reasoning.

But I've always seen "Satan" being Man's own Ego. Satan manifests his deeds through Man, not animals or plants. This is only possible because Man has an Ego, an understanding of self. My understanding is that Man has two selves; one self and one Self. There is actually only one REAL Self, because the one with the small 's' is actually the Ego, the outer shell of the self. The Self with the capital 'S' is our Divine Self, the part of God in us; our Divine heritage and potential.

According to an Islamic Hadith: “I was a Treasure unknown then I desired to be known so I created a creation to which I made Myself known, then they knew Me.”

Freeman said:
Somewhere lurking amongst these CC threads is a post citing an article written by a clergymen who takes the ubiquitous approach of assuming that all current explanations for UFOs are valid. Some may be fabricated by the NWO (even using the "magick" of Draken's mass hynposis techniques), some may represent high-tech military projects, and some may actually be genuine. In keeping with their Hegelian objectives, the Illuminati probably want to confuse us all as much as possible in regard to this subject and thereby profit from the induced conflict. That seems most logical to me.

Which is why it's utterly pointless to waste energy on it. The issue of alien lifeforms is simply irrelevant.

Regarding Arjuna's comment about him not believing to be God's most perfect creation:

Arjuna, you ARE God's most perfect creation. You're created in his image.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 08:43 PM
You are a slick operator ARJUNA but deceived by a false doctrine.

I already know I have leadership potential. I already know that God did not place me on this Earth to get a mortgage and a white picket fence and stay out of trouble.

I'm here to stick my finger in peoples eyes. Forcefully if nescessary. Take it or leave it...love me or hate me...i will call a spade a spade and New Age shit...shit.

I know the demon world well SAT. I spent 10 years wrestling with it. Indeed demons do exist...in the hearts of men. Face them if you can. If you do you might find the angels down their too.

The Kingdom Of God is within you and Aliens do NOT exist..."respectfully".

One day you might all work out for but one fleeting second that you ARE God and you ARE the Universe, indeed everything that ever was and ever existed and then the books can be dropped.

Sometimes you just know things. And that is that.

Nothing more can be said. You believe and I do not. I'll leave the thread to you.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 08:47 PM
The freakers will tell you the color of your underwear, the time your grandfather told you that story when you were 6, etc.

This was termed "Participation Mystique" in French anthrolopological circles.

I have experienced it many times...a simple "knowing" without knowing how you know.

Some people live close to the Collective Unconscious. A dangerous place to be at times.

Brazil is a Scorpio country.

Saturnino
09-17-2005, 09:53 AM
TB,
The things are persons...they have a personality, will, emotions...they get mad, they curse. They are f**ing evil bastards. They are not in the hearts of men. Men have evil hearts who work together with the goals of demons, but the beings are external. They influence the heart, but have their ownn existence.

Some people who really can cast demons in the name of Jesus can make them talk and tell everything about them...they are forced to say why they attack a person, sometimes the sin theyy are attached to, sometimes the curse that was cast, etc.

Draken,
Satan was created by God and he fell, rebelled. He is nothing compared to God. He is not God's equal. God could wipe him out in one second, but for some reason uses him to achieve his goals (teach us responsibility).

getagrip
09-17-2005, 11:32 AM
truebeliever wrote:
You are a slick operator ARJUNA but deceived by a false doctrine.

I already know I have leadership potential. I already know that God did not place me on this Earth to get a mortgage and a white picket fence and stay out of trouble.

I'm here to stick my finger in peoples eyes. Forcefully if nescessary. Take it or leave it...love me or hate me...i will call a spade a spade and New Age shit...shit.

I know the demon world well SAT. I spent 10 years wrestling with it. Indeed demons do exist...in the hearts of men. Face them if you can. If you do you might find the angels down their too.

The Kingdom Of God is within you and Aliens do NOT exist..."respectfully".

One day you might all work out for but one fleeting second that you ARE God and you ARE the Universe, indeed everything that ever was and ever existed and then the books can be dropped.

Sometimes you just know things. And that is that.

Nothing more can be said. You believe and I do not. I'll leave the thread to you.

Just been reading your posts. Very interesting "take" on reality. You seem like a very angry person. Unfortunately that means that you can be very easily controlled by the very same people you claim to be fighting.

But better yet, what happens when you find out all of this so called "reality" is just an illusion? Not real. You are living in a dream world NEO. Get over yourself and also get over your imaginary fight with imaginary "dark" forces. They and you are all part of the One. Everything is as it should be.

Or maybe it isn't......only a choice!

getagrip
09-17-2005, 11:35 AM
igwt wrote:
Compare Sitchin to this site.

Link (http://www.sitchiniswrong.com/)


Although Sitchin IS a shill, there have been a few interpretations of the Sumerian texts that tell a similiar story.

This link you have provided is bunk. I was expecting some big revelations, but only found some guy spouting off about grammar errors. Big deal. If that is the "red" pill he needs to take some prozac.

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 10:12 PM
Just been reading your posts.

Good for you, you might learn something. Did'nt take you long though. Their are 1400 of them. Do you speed read? Or take Speed to read them so fast?

Very interesting "take" on reality.

Yes, to Lizard Lovers it usually is. To mere middle class mortals I am a bastion of "reality" and loan repayments, and baby formula for bub on the way home from work.

You seem like a very angry person.

Whenever Lizards are raised as serious alternative news...i will be their.

Unfortunately that means that you can be very easily controlled by the very same people you claim to be fighting.

Hmmm...so if i sit by passively all will be well? In fact, my anger is a tool...i aim it where it needs to go. It shakes up cocksuckers like you who are desperately trying to sound all "pious" and "in control" but the tone of your reply's is obvious. Just beneath the surface seethes a lizard! A limbic system DESPERATE to find expression! I unsettle you dont I lizard boy? Did'nt i fuck off you or one of your whacky bretheren a while back?

But better yet, what happens when you find out all of this so called "reality" is just an illusion? Not real. You are living in a dream world NEO.

You know, theres a famous story about 2 philosophers debating the nature of reality. One says to the other..."we are but butterfly's dreaming we're men!" The other says..."I refute it thus!" and kicks his big toe against a rock real hard till it bleeds...he shreiks in pain.

There's also a few stories about a God/Man and the temptation the Devil offers...stating that as he is the Son of God he can just step off the temple roof.

Get over yourself...

Refer my above quote.

...and also get over your imaginary fight with imaginary "dark" forces. They and you are all part of the One. Everything is as it should be.

Ah, spoken like a true sucker of the New Age. Again, refer my above quote.

Or maybe it isn't......only a choice!

Yes, and my choice is to spank silly little boys like you till your little bottoms are red.

That is what grownups do to little boys and girls who have watched the Matrix and read a Carl Jung book and think they have the nature of reality pegged.

You've never suffered have you? Never gone hungry? Never been raped? Never been beaten? Never watched someone die? Never cleaned up another humans shit they were covered in and made them dignified before their death? Never calmed a man who is psychotic? Never held someone who's just lost their baby? Never had to tell someone their wife is dead? Never had organised crime threaten to kill you? Never told organised crime to do their best? Never been in an all out brawl? Never had a gun pointed at your head? Never seen God? Never shot some high quality crystal up your arm till you cant breathe? Never, ever, ever have you lived outside your narrow little, comfortable, theoretical world of theoretical bollocks.

The worst thing to happen to you is your Playstation once froze as you approached a high score on Tekkon.

Slapping your little bitch face into reality would please me no end. I would consider it a public duty.

I look forward to sending you packing from this site.

Warmest Regards,

TB

Perth, West Oz.