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Vlad
02-04-2005, 01:56 AM
The concept of "political theology" was introduced by Carl Schmitt in 1922 in his justly famous and equally notorious Politische Theologie. A central claim of his theory is that all political concepts are secularised theological concepts. The author was discarded by the official political science because of his collaboration with the Nazis.

Until the modern times, i.e. tha last two centuries, people had lived in a theological society: religion was the very center of their lives. The modern concept of state brought with it the separation between it and church. Religion had to retire in the private area. “What’s wrong with it?” say a lot of people; I used to say it too, until my private study of politics and conspiracy revealed me one thing: what Illuminati hate most is Jesus Christ; their whole effort is directed against Christianity.

Many think that churches are part of the conspiracy too, and they may be right. The evil sect that rules the world is perverse enough to corrupt churches and transform the main Christian principles in “traps for fools”. That is why so many think that religion too is nothing but a tool of the elite.

If one doesn’t think religiously, one cannot comprehend what is going on. We are fighting first with ideas. “For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Eph 6:12)

What makes people tick is ideas. They have the same imaterial nature as the spirits. One of the Desert Fathers even said that thoughts are nothing but spirits.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that we should give up reasoning. But if we confine ourselves to use only our reason, we lose the most important part of the design.

Draken
02-04-2005, 03:18 AM
Vlad wrote:
what Illuminati hate most is Jesus Christ; their whole effort is directed against Christianity.

And the Buddha and Buddhism, and Islam, and in fact all peoples following a Traditional Way. I would say their whole effort is directed against any of the revealed religions that lead in their own way to God.
What the Illuminati hate the most is if Man broke the illusion thinking that Man is a "machine" or "animal" and came to the insight that Man is the image of God and hence, has the Divine in Her.

Many think that churches are part of the conspiracy too, and they may be right. The evil sect that rules the world is perverse enough to corrupt churches and transform the main Christian principles in “traps for fools”. That is why so many think that religion too is nothing but a tool of the elite.

Yeah, I used to think that too, but then I looked at my grandmother and thought, "she's not fooled by the elite; she goes to church and prays honestly, not because she believes in God but becuase the KNOWS God IS." She wasn't praying "for show", guilt, safety, fear; she couldn't care less about such things.

Of course, that doesn’t mean that we should give up reasoning. But if we confine ourselves to use only our reason, we lose the most important part of the design.

Man is not ONLY intelligence.
The human intelligence according to Boethius is made up of:

Intellectus (Spirit)

Ratio

Imaginatio

Sensus

Of these four only the Intellectus is in the domain of metaphysics.
Ratio is, or should be "the handmaid" to the Intellectus.

Now, when I talk about the Intellect I don't mean it in the modern, erroneous way. People today use the word Intellect when they actually mean Reason.

The problem today is that Modern Science has put Reason above the Intellect; letting the Intellect be ruled by Reason when it should be the other way around!

The Intellect is enthroned in the heart; not the centre of the body, but the CENTRE OF THE SOUL. This is what the Sufis talk about when they refer to "the eye of the heart".

According to universal doctrine, Man lost sight of the Heart at Man's fall. Man lost the direct sense of the transcendent. Hence the NEED for metaphysics; the doctrine of the transcendent.
The main purpose of all esoterism (TRUE esoterism!) is to open that inward eye which is blind, in the Soul.

Vlad
02-04-2005, 04:08 AM
I don't think that the Reason has been put above the Intellect; what they've been trying to do is to wipe out the Intellect completely! And I'm afraid they have succeded for the most of us ... Thus they have obtained a "new species": a man that is a mere animal with reason. A perfect slave.

About the properties of Imaginatio, do you know about the distinction made by the famous alchemist Paracelsus between "imaginatio phantastica" and "imaginatio vera"?

Draken
02-04-2005, 04:35 AM
I don't think it is possible to destroy the Intellect. I do agree with you though that they sure try! But I think as long as a person is alive there is hope his/her Intellect will awaken. (We are made in God's image after all, despite all our failings and imperfections.) For some it takes a personal tragedy or serious trauma for it to awaken. Others seek to awaken it on purpose.

"There is only One Light, and "you" and "me" are holes in the lamp shade."
(MAHMUD SHABISTARI)

"About the properties of Imaginatio, do you know about the distinction made by the famous alchemist Paracelsus between "imaginatio phantastica" and "imaginatio vera"?"

No. I'm all ears. I mean eyes. ;-)

Vlad
02-04-2005, 04:48 AM
He defied the scientists of the time to make "tabula rasa" in their heads: to get away from any knowledge of the outward world and to concentrate inward instead. But he warned them there are two types of objects in the imagination: scraps based on reality (phantasy) and those that a true seeker should find.

Draken
02-04-2005, 04:55 AM
Quite good, that.

On another note:

do you think that what today would be mistakenly called New Age, i.e. anything other than Christianity is Evil?

The Buddhists for instance, have a totally different view on existence, metaphysics, "God", time and space. They often talk about "paranormal" events/skills.

Therefore; are they evil?

Vlad
02-04-2005, 05:10 AM
Aha, you try me! I like it.

Let me put it this way: if Buddha would've had the chance to meet Jesus, he would've become one of His followers.

And, mind you! this is not some kind of stupid way of putting it, like "if Superman would fight Batman, who would win?" or something.

I'll tell you more, if you like.

Draken
02-04-2005, 05:19 AM
I like.

Vlad
02-04-2005, 05:42 AM
You see, Draken, this is the most delicate problem: to challenge one's religious views. I may write a monstrously large message and still not be able to make you understand my view.

Furthermore, the risk of offending. I've gathered you're into buddhism and gnosticism. How would you feel if I'd tell you that these are only heresies that will make you lose your soul?

We are thinking ourselves superior to materialists, but the greatest dangers are spiritual. St. Paul the Apostle wrote that Satan himself can appear in the form of an "angel of light". On spiritual matters, we are stepping on uncertain ground. We can so easily fall and not even notice!

Draken
02-04-2005, 06:35 AM
Ok, quick answer befofe I have to go eat!

My analogy with the pyramid is like this:

the four sides of the pyramid could be the four World Religions Buddhism, Christianity, Islam and Hindusim. They are all different, yet the closer you get to the top, the closer you also get to the other sides. Finally, at the apex you realise the Source was the same.

Frithjof Schuon on Islam:

"That God should have allowed a religion that was merely the invention of a man to conquer a part of humanity and to maintain itself for more than a thousand years in a quarter of the inhabited world, thus betraying the love, faith and hope of a multitude of sincere and fervent souls -- this again is contrary to the laws of the Divine Mercy, or, in other words, to those of Universal Possibility."(The Transcendent Unity of Religions, Wheaton (Illinois): Theosophical Publishing House, 1984, p. 37.)

I'm not offended by what you say, although a lot of people on this forum would be. I consider Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and Hinduism to all have the possibility of salvation and bliss, as long as you don't MIX THEM WITH EACHOTHER, which is what New Age is trying to do. You can't walk up to the pyramid's apex "a little bit on all sides"; you have to choose a side and walk up that side all the way to reach the top.

I consider Buddhism, Islam, Christianity and Hinduism to all contain The Truth.

God has fashioned for humanity different ways to reach Him, according to mentality, geography, climate etc.

Honestly, I'm not more into Buddhism than Christianity or any other revealed religion. I find immense wisdom in Islam, as in Hinduism. Why discard the one for the other? They all say the same thing anyway, only expressed differently!

I REALLY have to go eat now - you can't live off wisdom only! :-D

madkhao
02-04-2005, 08:31 AM
Vlad I like what you do
Draken I see your reasoning
I'm gonna try and place an opinion on this thread

I do not believe people who have NEVER heard the
word of God are guilty so long as they know LOVE
Because God is Love
So in that sense, your pyramid works, but I believe once someone has heard the gospel of Christ, it must be accepted. If not, their innocence is lost because they have rejected the essence of Love.

Draken
02-04-2005, 09:38 AM
I was just contemplating this scenario:

Like I said I come to this forum ultimately to express myself to myself, to formulate myself more clearly, more focussed so that I can understand better the things I'm interested in.

With the above in mind, it's like I say something on a forum and I get 15 answers back, saying everything between total agreement to total disagreement. From everyone's own individual perception they are right and they think I'm wrong/right.

When I seem challenging, provoking, argumentative etc. I'm really challenging MYSELF; provoking MYSELF; arguing for/against MYSELF.

Since I discuss matters for my own understanding, it's almost as if those 15 answers I got came from ME; my subconscious, superconscious, unconscious (!), metaconscious and conscious mind.

Ultimately, I'm discussing matters with ME.

Therefore, getting offended is totally unnecessary since the 15 answers are the opinions of the different aspects of Me.

If I'm discussing matters with "me", and the answers I get are from "you"; are "me" and "you" not the same thing?

Once again, "There is only One Light, and "you" and "me" are holes in the lamp shade."

In the end, the reason for everyone here is to try to understand our existence, no?

Any thoughts?

Vlad?

madkhao?

Draken
02-04-2005, 12:07 PM
madkhao wrote: your pyramid works, but I believe once someone has heard the gospel of Christ, it must be accepted.

What's your opinion on the following quote from Frithjof Schuon's view on Christian missionaries?

In connection with attempts to convert Hindus to Christianity he [Frithjof Schuon] writes:

Brahmins are invited to abandon completely a religion that has lasted for several thousands of years, one that has provided the spiritual support of innumerable generations and has produced flowers of wisdom and holiness down to our times. The arguments brought forward to justify this extraordinary demand are in no wise logically conclusive nor do they bear any proportion to the magnitude of the demand: the reasons that the Brahmins have for remaining faithful to their spiritual patrimony are therefore infinitely stronger than the reasons by which it is sought to persuade them to cease being what they are. The disproportion, from the Hindu point of view, between the immense reality of the Brahmanic tradition and the insufficiency of the Christian counter-arguments is such as to prove quite sufficiently that had God wished to submit the world to one religion only, the arguments put forward on behalf of this religion would not be so feeble, nor those of certain so-called 'infidels' so powerful.
(The Transcendent Unity of Religions, Wheaton (Illinois): Theosophical Publishing House, 1984, pp. 30-31.)

madkhao
02-04-2005, 12:58 PM
For starters, this quote from Jesus

Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Also it seems to me that the unity Christ intended for people is misunderstood by the false unity created by men

Christ wants us all to be united following Him whereas this world thinks we can unite following any god we please

In this way they make it look like Christ is for the NWO when it is not so

crowneagle
02-04-2005, 01:29 PM
It's rather unfortunate that the Brahmanical tradition has undergone a lot of corruption and it is very different today from what it originally was. But the bright side is that the "keys" and the "gateways" to the truth of the Vedas is never lost. Whoever finds this key will also have access to the truth. A person that has traversed the entire path and attained the state of complete unity with the Spirit can NEVER be persuaded to convert to any religion.

Conversion is really about giving up a certain construct in one's own mind and embracing another. The truth of the Vedas has existed for millions of years and goes beyond all mental constructs. Even the Vedic and Tantric paths might require one to hold on to some mental constructs to begin with, but they fall off at advanced stages, since they have already served their purpose and are no longer needed.

In my opinion, even the Christian teachings, in their true essence, serve the same purpose. Accepting Christ Jesus as one's savior and following the "commandments" can provide the person a lot of focus. But even this is useless if the person does not make use of Jesus's teachings to make progress and attain oneness with the Spirit. When one practices unconditional love for all living beings and strives in every possible way to develop "Christlike" qualities, it does lead to a high degree of closeness with the Spirit. However, once the person attains this goal, the religious fanaticism falls off, since it's no longer needed.

I personally know one Catholic "father" in India who has attained this state. In fact, his devotion was so intense that every action of his, including eating, drinking, breathing and sleeping was mentally dedicated to Christ Jesus. He made tremendous spiritual progress and today he has supernatural powers too. I've personally seen light coming from his heart when he reads the Bible. And no, it is NOT a flashlight, it's a supernatural thing. When we asked him how he accomplished it, he humbly replied that there's really nothing "spectacular" about what he did....just giving his entire self over to Christ Jesus; and complete love and surrender with persistant discipline. And yes, he's tolerant towards other religions too and never tries to impose his Christianity on anyone. He realizes the basic essence of his faith as well as the foolishness of fundamentalism.

I can also quote similar examples of several Moslem Fakirs and Sufis accomplishing the same thing. I believe it's a part of the New World Order agenda to make people of different religions fight against each other over differences in the outer form. And we need to do exactly the opposite if we are to defeat the evil.

Draken
02-04-2005, 02:43 PM
Thank you, crowneagle!!!

I couldn't have said it better!

madkhao, we all follow the same God anyway. Only those who choose NOT to go God's way follow another "God" - the Ego. Like Vlad said, you don't choose, you get chosen. The only choice then is to either accept or reject God's choice for you and ultimately either to accept or reject God.

Christ was not the only one who spoke of Love.

crowneagle, what we're talking about here is the transcendent unity of religions, but on an ESOTERIC level. Like you said, "different religions fight against each other over differences in the outer form", i.e. on the EXOTERIC level.


Good night, my friends! I think we're getting somewhere! :lol:

madkhao
02-04-2005, 04:52 PM
Sorry Draken, crowneagle
I agree to disagree and will move on

I believe the real NWO agenda actually
wants us to quit 'fighting' and accept the unity of many different faiths. A unity of religions on an esoteric level sounds to me like freemasonry. It all sounds a little new age too.

shatrani
02-04-2005, 05:30 PM
madkhao wrote:
Sorry Draken, crowneagle
I agree to disagree and will move on

I believe the real NWO agenda actually
wants us to quit 'fighting' and accept the unity of many different faiths. A unity of religions on an esoteric level sounds to me like freemasonry. It all sounds a little new age too.

I think you don't understand what it means "esoteric level". That is high level when just being in touch with God if you calling Him Allah ,Jesus the Son Of God, God Father, Shiva, Brahma or other names. All these just to folowing a face .. but in essence is the same God. Because is the only ONE for all.this is esoteric level when you recognize God in all these forms ... Only the clothes (dogmas) are different God is the same.
And isnt at all a face of freemasonry concept because htey dont follow God, thats for sure. They want to controll the world and tell you about same religion . But for them "religion " is a tool to controll you .And them god isnt God. God give you free will and never broke the vow for your free will. Where can you see them god wanted to let you to think free. Who likes to be the first being a big ego and to tempt you to follow him? Satan! never he dont let you to think free and never give you free will. But freemasons are fools because they think Satan is opposite to God!! Poor human mind!! Satan is a tool for God... because is a creation of God to make us to come back to God. Freemasons are blind and big egos... Soon they will fail. These humanity need to jump on other vibration level. And we will go to there not with these stupid masons...

Jimbo
02-04-2005, 10:08 PM
Observation: :-o :-o :-o

Conspiracy == Neo[Con's Piracy]

The Great Pirates - World Order Derived From Deception & Maintained Through Deception
"The great pirates, the traders and sea dwellers who needed men organized on land to expedite their trading created monarchies. Pirates were inherently outlaws. Pirates lived outside the system. The only laws that could, and did, rule them were natural laws. Pirates battled with one another to see who was going to control the vast sea routes and, eventually, the world." - by Ben Mack
http://solutions.synearth.net/2004/05/14
8-)

marypopinz
02-04-2005, 10:15 PM
Brittania ruled the waves ergo the empire.

Imperialization or globalization?
Colonization of land or the mind?

Mary XXX

Draken
02-05-2005, 01:13 AM
Well said shatrani!

It's okay, madkhao. I'm on your side even if you don't see it now. Just a final observation: a religion needs to have the two components of exoterism and esoterism.
If the exoterism is represented by the tree and it's roots, branches, flowers then the esoterism is represented by the core of the tree, the sap.

Ok, I will be without a computer for a few days, but I'll be back!

Truth, Beauty, Love to all God's creatures.

madkhao
02-05-2005, 05:09 PM
Draken, it's not about being on my side, that would be exoterically thinking, it's about being on Christ' side, and that is the esoteric level, even if you don't see it now.

Many have spoken of Love but only One died for us, only One can take our sins away. That's why I agree to disagree.

Draken
02-05-2005, 07:42 PM
Cool.

alumbrado
02-05-2005, 10:49 PM
Draken wrote:
Honestly, I'm not more into Buddhism than Christianity or any other revealed religion. I find immense wisdom in Islam, as in Hinduism. Why discard the one for the other? They all say the same thing anyway, only expressed differently!


Perhaps you aren't exactly aware that Hindus and Muslims have a very bloody history going back more than 1200 years ago.

Why do you think "Hindu Kush" really mean?

Search engine this: Hindu Holocaust.

Muslims have killed more Hindus over several centuries than any religious or political group could have done to people. Even the Jewish Holocaust, the Irish Holocaust, the Native American Holocaust or the communist holocaust of the 20th century (Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, Angola) are pale in comparison to the Hindu Holocaust that Muslims have inflicted throughout Central Asia and India over the centuries.

Islam do have great wisdom about everything but that gone out after the Renaissance.

Draken
02-06-2005, 04:55 AM
I'm aware of that but what two people of different religions do to eachother because of political manipulation and what is written in their respective Sacred texts are two different things.

I'm not interested in politics. My interests lie in the wisdom that's in the Vedas, the Quran, the Bible, and all the other ancient documents that contain archaic wisdom.

I know I mentioned Hindus and Moslems in the same sentence, but I was referring to the hidden wisdom that's in their respective doctrines.

alumbrado
02-06-2005, 03:35 PM
The conflict between Hindus and Muslims is much more theological/spiritual in nature than in politics. True, both offers divine and ancient wisdoms to all but to people who embrace and follow those faiths find themselves in a spiritual and theological competition between Islam and Hinduism.

Vlad
02-08-2005, 01:45 AM
Draken, in your quest for mysteries, I'm afraid you're missing the only real Mystery! Some may have parts of the truth, but that doesn't make them share the Truth...

Draken
02-08-2005, 07:28 AM
I don't quite see your point, Vlad. You mean to say I should stop reading so much and just enter nirvana/Heaven/Enlightment or whatever you prefer to call it?

crowneagle
02-08-2005, 09:19 AM
alumbrado wrote:
The conflict between Hindus and Muslims is much more theological/spiritual in nature than in politics. True, both offers divine and ancient wisdoms to all but to people who embrace and follow those faiths find themselves in a spiritual and theological competition between Islam and Hinduism.

There is no difference in the innermost core essence of these two faiths. However, there is a big difference between the outer forms of Hinduism and Islam. Also, Hindus, in general, are non-violent people, as far as religious tolerance is concerned. However, the Islamic fundamentalists are not: Their policy is "Embrace Islam or get killed". This is the reason why the "Hindu Kush" really came about.

Islamic holocaust of Hindus does have a very long history, and all the other holocausts pale in comparison to it. It's rather unfortunate that it's not brought enough to light for public knowledge. In my opinion, the Hindus are also partially responsible for it, due to their pacifism, and also the misimplementation of the caste system. The caste system, during the ancient times, was based on one's characteristics and nature and had nothing to do with the family of birth. This got distorted over time and today we see a very bigoted system that is based on a person's birth. In my opinion, the "Hindu Kush" is really a retribution from God to the Hindus for distorting the caste system and inflicting a lot of pain on people considered to be "lower caste". However, Islamic fundamentalism will not go unpunished and people practicing it will also experience very severe retribution in the future.

However, I'm not against Islam. I'm only against the fundamentalist side of it, which seems to have come about because of distortion of scriptural teachings of the Koran. I know many Moslems that are wonderful people and I cherish having them as friends.

All these conflicts come about only because people have lost the keys to comprehend the core essence of their faiths. Because of this, they get stuck in the outer forms, which are mistaken to be absolute truths. Since the outer forms of different faiths seem to be mutually contradictory to each other, there are several religious wars. But a Moslem that is aligned with the Spirit will not kill anyone in the name of religion, as he would recognize the same Spirit in everyone else. Nor will he try to convert anyone, since the need to convert others drops off at these higher stages. In fact, true submission to the will of Allah comes only when one is in full alignment with the Spirit.

The same thing applies to Christians too. I know a few Christians and Catholics that are spiritually very accomplished, and I consider only such people to be qualified to teach what true Christianity is about.

The focus should be on developing a spiritual nature and getting closer to the Spirit within. That's really where even the solution for the NWO problem also lies.

alumbrado
02-08-2005, 07:22 PM
That's why I tells people if they wanted to believe in God and the messages invoked by God through men (and women) over the centuries, they should become aligned with God on their own terms, not from anybody telling them they must convert or else in the name of its religion.

When people seek to have spiritual relationships with God, it would have to be on their own personal terms and not with religious groups seeking strength in numbers.

Vlad
02-08-2005, 11:55 PM
The modern man rebelled once again against his Lord. He has become too proud to humble himself before those through whom God manifested Himself in this world. In fact, he doesn't know anymore who those saints were.

This was done through Protestantism, which in its instigated opposition to Rome blindly discarded all the concepts of true religion, however distorted by Catholics they were, and took a step further from the Real Way. The next step was the modern atheism. The last is the antichrist's world religion ...

God help us all!