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Thumper
09-14-2005, 11:30 PM
Assuming that the illuminati is running the same script of WWII, how do you propose the "Allies" will respond to the American Nazi empire in the Final Act?

Do you think they'll storm the US a la Normandy style? Will we have a Fortress America? Who will be on the 'good guys' side, and how will this play out exactly in this last and truly WORLD WAR??

:-x

09-14-2005, 11:35 PM
World War III is the final act. The final curtain.

And, so, the time is near....

There is a song to this effect.

Was it Sinatra??

09-14-2005, 11:41 PM
Sorry, wandered off there!!

Will we be taken over by foreign forces?

Seems they've set the stage.

Made us ripe for the pickin'.

Made us weak.

Disgraced us as a nation!

Left us unprotected on 911 and Katrina.

Seems we're an easy target for INVASION!!

freeman
09-15-2005, 05:53 AM
Assuming that the illuminati is running the same script of WWII, how do you propose the "Allies" will respond to the American Nazi empire in the Final Act?

As I have stated on a previous thread, i believe the plan will not completely follow the WWII script. The U. S. will be destabilized from within by economic collapse, racial conflicts, etc. The neoconservative warhawk faction will continue to commit acts of overt military aggression against the rest of the world to retain their power base. This will finally provide an incentive for a mulitateral action against the U. S. by a global coalition. At that time we will be invaded by occupiers, yes, but they will do so under the guise of being "saviors" who intend to rescue Americans from their oppressive government. Just as in Nazi Germany and Communist Russia, certain elements within the general populace and political hierarchy will be exposed and scapegoated. Everyone else will be assimilated into the one world Satanic theocracy and receive the "mark of the beast", i. e., electronic tracking and cashless society.
I believe the Illuminati are always learning from previous experience (hence the trial runs of previous world wars). They tinker and refine their plans to eliminate past mistakes. IMO, Hitler and Stalin were both too dangerous to be recreated on a large scale, and the Illuminati won't repeat that mistake. This will be a much more controlled takeover.

Nexuseuss
09-15-2005, 07:19 AM
I don't personally see any culmination designed for a "world war".

Rather squirmishes which don't upset the economic order too greatly.

Most of the international treasuries are partially hedged with the American dollar to aid in stabilising theirs, and the world economy. Though nations and cultures do have a degree of seperation, economic theory is shared by all.

It's a complicated system of treaty, agreements, and trade systems very much intertwined to a point that any major conflict would threaten to plunge the combined world into the dark ages.

It's much like the rules of engagement Colonial Britain utilized, and expected it's enemies to utilize in shared chivalry on the battlefield.

Ironically, what Bin Laden and his supposed crew of mischief makers didn't follow for September 11th. You can wax theoretical about the "true" inner forces at work on that one, but for hard evidence, one merely look at the global insurance companies which hiked insurance premiums in every nation-state the world over.

There was no recourse but English contempt and French admiration when colonial minutemen did the same behind shrubs and trees.

Motivations may have been different, and if you believe the history books, idealistic.. But in the end, the colonials quickly rejoined the rules of engagement towards the end of the Revolutionary War.

I see disinformation, spin doctoring, and economic agreements as the armies of any major revolution, and the battlefield being the world trade markets.

As petroleum, crops, and technology gains become scarcer, then we might see nations break away from individual treaties, and agreements in a selective fashion, causing international discourse and ultimately making themselves into world lepers with a welcome landscape for spurn or invasion due to whatever guise.

It is merely my outlook or opinion on the matter and not fact by any stretch of the imagination, but I can't envision some ultimate showdown unless the whole world economic system has it's intrusive hand forced in a showdown.

That may happen with just one rogue act of defiance which changes the landscape beyond recognition... something widespread and deadly, or proliferating in arms, but idealism will be the culprit, and psychology will be the weapon.

To me, offering theories up now is much like playing the Nostradamus lottery. Mostly miss in hit and miss.

But I do know how people cling to boats on the waters when they float, and erupt into mass panic and leaping inhumane acts when the boat is sinking.

How supermarkets could easily sell generic barbecue lighter fluid, and petrol stations water in a moment of hysteria. Anyone who has ever lived in a Northern climate during a 2 week long envisioned blizzard need only look at their neighbor's actions and their own to see what is ultimately possible.

But these events are small, managed to a degree, and the coping mechanisms are in place to prevent unilateral community destruction.

A world war would take so much calamity, so much bad luck and alterior intentions, so much death and change of our residential habits and creature comforts, and all against the world agreements between nations to render stability a lose-lose situation for all and sundry, that a world war we can see would actually be the last parting shot in a war that's been quietly fought for generations before us.

I see us here as the defeated. Writing on a message board, convinced of our theories and thoughts, yet with no unity in basics... we're boats floating off into the pale blue yonder, occasionally bumping into each other and sharing a meal or two in seafaring fashion.

Such is theory when you have no hard facts and like me, rely upon suspicions. Above all else, I know that one day either in my lifetime, or my son's lifetime, we'll wake up and see the end result of prolonged strife. There will be no warning, just suffering in store.

Until then, I figure life is worth living and living to the best of abilities. I hope that my parents did their best to ensure I can cope, and that I've done my best to guarantee my son can as well.

Hope that makes sense to those reading.

Nex

truebeliever
09-15-2005, 08:37 AM
NEX...not so. They are as predictable as a fox near a hen house.

I have been consistent for two years as have others...on this site FREEMAN and I agree in principal.

There will be NO swarming of the beaches off California...the point of Bush is to make the public accept the "Blue Hats" prevelant in the Pentagon. "Blue Hats" that have been co-operating with foreign troops for years.

Once the U.S economy is collapsed you will see troops on the street..American as first. Once Hillary is in we will see more foreign troops brought in and a reinvigoration of the U.N. Throw in limited nuke strikes by the Neo-Cons before the big bow out. Dont forget virus outbreaks through Asia.

This will show once and for all that the multi lateral U.N is the prefered method of government and world affairs...and that religion is a dangerous thing.

The moves will be gradual. Undoubtably the break up of the Middle East will be paramount...Bush will have done the dirty work...Europe can move in under the U.N with Israel threatening one and all.

None of the police state apparatus will be removed by the Left and the ministry of love...but we'll all be breathing a great big sigh of relief that that evil "Christian Fundamentalist Fascist" Bush is gone.

If the NWO program is resisted to to great an extent...they will wipe out 2/3rds of the Earth. The vast bunker systems have been built and plans are in place.

Chernobyl has shown that the land recovers quickly and background radiation drops significantly after 10 years.

"They" want to finish this once and for all.

The key is "they" must have the high moral ground. The catastrophe must show that human beings are irrational beasts and only a STRONG One World Government with enforcement powers for complete disarmament is the answer.

That is OUR role. To make sure as many people as possible know the plan and who to blame should they be silly enough to attempt to follow it through.

Saturnino
09-15-2005, 08:58 AM
The only way that the US could be out of the game would be after some really catastrophic event, like a nuclear attack from Russia or the explosion of the Yellostone park volcanic caldera.

Having been in contact for 20 years with the country and having lived there, I am absolutely sure that there will be no take over of the US by foreign troups without a calamity. Never. What may happen is a new government with a globalist like SHillary in coomand, a withdraw from Iraq, a cooperation with the UN in international disputes. I believe that even a small war because of Taiwan or Korea. But invasion of the US? It is impossible. The country, to start with, is too large. The population too patriotic. The army the best in the world. No way.
Unless they are invading radioactive wasteland.

In a Christian perspective, I believe the US is commercial babylon, which will be doing business ok when its time comes. I believe there will be a pre-emptive strike from Russia so the Gog Magog war (invasion of the Middle East by Russia and allies, followed by Russia's downfall) may start. But then, we will be far into the Tribulation, maybe with the US withdrawn from the international scene, maybe with a depression, who knows. AntiChrist and Europe will be on the stoplight.

Nexuseuss
09-15-2005, 09:12 AM
With all due respect, True Believer, I don't see it as you do.

Even those in western power have a fragmented, seldom unilateral combined view on things.

It's about manipulation one all levels... public servants, and private citizens.

It's easy to formulate an "us and against them" mantra, but very dangerous in that it doesn't account for the same parameters such as family, friends, upbringing, and such we all share as human beings.

I prefer to look upon my fellow humans individually on a case by case basis and gauge their goodness or lack of, according to how I've been raised and conditioned by experience.

I don't believe Hillary Clinton, nor George W. Bush are evil in the sense of full on malice or devilish tendencies.

They merely have a view point, especially tempered by the environment of their offices and advisors.

Someone is obviously wrong, and it may be all of us by the same stroke of historical painting many text books into the future.

Take for instance, Abraham Lincoln suspending the free speech of the people in a time of civil unrest, or outlining a liberating doctrine for slavery in all the states minus the Northern ones.

Was he wrong? I think so. Was it corrected? With time, I believe it has been. Still, many people hold him in such high esteem that my mind boggles. He was a president in a time of civil disobedience, and acted along the lines of "the end justifies the means". He did what he thought to be correct.... and changed the landscape of Northern versus Southern economics and disenfranchisement.

Look at where Davey Crockett died...a mexican prison after being tortured alongside Bowie and Travis to see what the history books and Disney presents it's young apt students.

What about George Washington's affiliation with the Masons, and the numerous "strategic mistakes" on the colonial battlefields and wilderness expanses? How can three couriers not get through to route a colonial army set to self destruct on it's own? Especially in such an important battlefield...

I disagree with your black and white mentality. Black and white makes it easier to mobilize against a percieved threat, but historically, most threats have been so grey as to render the motives hearsay and conjecture.

You may be 100 percent right on any given statement or theory. But can you prove it?

If you can, you're not of this earth.

(again, I say this with the utmost respect for your contrary belief system as it's your beliefs, and I mean no intention of ill will or harm for discussing it with you in a situation of debate and higher learning.)

freeman
09-15-2005, 09:57 AM
The key is "they" must have the high moral ground. The catastrophe must show that human beings are irrational beasts and only a STRONG One World Government with enforcement powers for complete disarmament is the answer.

That is OUR role. To make sure as many people as possible know the plan and who to blame should they be silly enough to attempt to follow it through.

YES! YES! YES!
That is what we must be looking for, as a true sign. As the Bible says, when the very elect are deceived by the forces of evil who come disguised as wolves in sheep's clothing.

Nexuseuss, I wish I could share your optimism and your trust in human nature however flawed, but when I see clues like the Rothschilds attempting to corner both the oil and precious metals markets, I can only suspect a huge economic disruption in the near future. If you plan to crash the world's most dominant currecy, then it follows that you would want to be certain that you control whatever collateral standards can be utilized to back up an alternative currency.
And you're right, none of us has a crystal ball. As the Bible says, no one knows the exact time and hour of these events. But as Jesus foretold, the signs of the times will presage the evil about to unfold.
As far as George Washington, the Masons and the Revolutionary War, I would suggest you do a bit more research re the Red Lodge infiltration of the Illuminati and their role in the American revolution. Only too late did Washington himself realize he had been "had" by this scheme.

Nexuseuss
09-15-2005, 10:46 AM
Freeman, while I read with open eyes what you have to say, I feel it clouded in rampant suspicion to render it overly informed paranoia.

There is no hard text nor autobiography to render your comments about Washington absolutely true to form.

You're making stabs in the dark, and although some stabs would by pure ratio of mathematics be true, the overwhelming lack of historical hard information rather than conjecture readily shows that theory is no basis for calling suspicion fact.

It's one thing to take into account how three couriers didn't make it through only semi hostile territory to route a weakened colonial army, and a totally different premise to suggest that this one fact, coupled with other historical disparities was part of a grand unified scheme mounted by a secret society with such ties that they could supercede the lines of battle, economics, and continental divides.

My personal theory is that both sides of Masonry had become sick of fighting their brethren, as evidenced by the white flags on the battlefields for cross army meetings at nightfall. And attrition did the rest to drive both forces far apart until 1812.

Do I have proof of this? No, just theory based on the events recorded.

Even if I felt these events weren't open to other interpretation, by no stretch of the imagination, could I loop together another 200 odd plus years of world history to cement a black and white historical war between two set factions with set objectives.

One merely has to look at the Mason lodges the world over to see what a once clandestine movement has turned into.... a bunch of beer drinking pseudo Elk's- Kiwanis clubbers...

Or the Order of the Arrow has become to the BSA...

I apologize, but I feel you are making mountains out of mole hills.

The nature of power and collective unilateral power is the culprit, not any one faction, nor it's acts.

My optimism extends into the belief that people aren't intrinsically bad by nature, and when pushed to stand and deliver, many will do so for their beliefs though others will to a lesser extent refute their obligations to humanity.


It's much like judging whether the glass is half full or half empty.

truebeliever
09-15-2005, 10:50 AM
Just testing. My long reply disapered. I had it saved but when copy and pasted it i got a very strange error.

truebeliever
09-15-2005, 11:09 AM
NEX...my long and detailed reply cannot be posted. I addressed you point by point. I'm sure it's just bad luck.

I've never had this problem before.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Firstly...just who is it you think the Elite are? You think they think like you do? People like Bush are a nobody and irrelevant. He takes his orders from elsewhere.

It is not the nice people who are pulling the strings. It is a managerial class who view the culling and controlling of the excess population of the planet as a priority. It is a management issue. Nothing more and nothing less.

You are dealing with people who laugh as they kill Eastern European prostitutes for fun. Who take part in the sickest activities you can imagine. Who have shown throught history that they are ruthless when it comes to controlling their peasantry.

Do you think the Central Committee of the Chinese Communist party will bat an eye when they cull 500 million from the central provinces?

How many Cambodians died with the stroke of Kissengers pen?

How many with Robert MacNamara when he signed off on firestorm raids on the Japanes mainland killing over 1 million Japanese souls?

Just which fairy planet are you typing from?

It is a matter of the historical record that the Elite and their Managerial Class are bent on a population cull and an ending of the experiment in Liberal Democracy.

It is a matter of expediency and a simple use of the rational faculties. It's nothing personal.

We have till 2011-12 to submit. I dont plan on doing so, so lets make sure "they" know that "we" know who the culprits are.

Your knowledge on the subject is woeful.

I will set you some reading if you'd like.

Nexuseuss
09-15-2005, 11:28 AM
I'm sorry your full reply didn't show up to be read. I personally despise when hard work dies a quick fruitless death.

I believe the "elite" are those that find personal and economic gain in ruling over the many, by a handful of few.

I believe we agree on this.

What we don't appear to agree on is that these elites do so in uniformity of voice and treatied vision.

I believe the various elites do so out of natural human tendencies to overcome their surroundings and mould them into something to their tastes, without concern for the next gardener, whether in agreeance or not.

I see or have read about all the references of global strife you've mentioned... but where we part ways is in the tying in of these acts by yourself as some black and white, "us against them" struggle.

Any reading which has caused you to settle upon a date of 2012 or whatever is reason enough for me to not care to peruse it.

It clouds any reference to any "historical records" you maintain, and makes me question what profit visions you believe yourself to have recieved.

I try to keep an open mind about my surroundings, and don't pretend to know how the future will exactly transpire, except to notice the historical reactions of humanity in the past as a guide to what humanity will react to in the future. After all, I've never believed in the concept of widespread utopian grandeur embraced by all...either by seduction or force. It hasn't in the past been adhered to.

Thumper
09-15-2005, 12:27 PM
Matthew 7:15:

"Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them."

=================

I think among the conspiracy movement we still have a major schism to overcome. A lot of people who have seen through the very obvious scam of 9/11 think that the wheels of the New World Order began to turn when the Neo-Cons cooked up their plan for the new american century. WRONG.

The thread of history goes back much further. Who is it that forces the hand of Hitler when he makes peace entreaties towards the English at Dunkirk? Who funds the Soviet Union from total economic collapse? Whose agenda is it that supercedes national interests, even when it comes to winning wars?

Figuring out the falacy of the left versus right political dialectic at the national level is only half the battle. We have to take it to it's logical limit. It's protagonist versus antagonist in every war, who are just different sides of the same coin.

I think it's really important that we drive home the point that the NWO needs the leverage of moral righteousness to rule us, so it's IMPOSSIBLE that America will be the head of it. Just like how they funded Nazi Germany as far as they did, but didn't allow it to take over the world. This WILL NOT be America's MANIFEST DESTINY. Rather, it's being set up for a brutal failure.

PS. has anyone joined iidb.org yet? :-P

freeman
09-15-2005, 12:56 PM
One merely has to look at the Mason lodges the world over to see what a once clandestine movement has turned into.... a bunch of beer drinking pseudo Elk's- Kiwanis clubbers...

If you believe that, then you haven't met the Masons that I have. If you did, then you would understand my paranoia -- and I neither deny it nor apologize for it.
I'm having a hard time figuring out just what you do understand. You are confusing me with phraseology like this:

What we don't appear to agree on is that these elites do so in uniformity of voice and treatied vision.

I believe the various elites do so out of natural human tendencies to overcome their surroundings and mould them into something to their tastes, without concern for the next gardener, whether in agreeance or not.

I read that, and I am reminded of an old Sinclair Lewis phrase: sonorous aphorisms. Are you trying to say that the ruling elites aren't really bad, just a little selfish and misguided? If so, then I must politely but vehemently disagree after close to a decade of researching the truth behind Benjamin Disraeli's cryptic statement: "The world is governed by far different personages from what is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes.”
We are NOT talking about nice, slightly misguided plutocrats. They are exactly as Truebeliever describes them. Don't be fooled by their personal hygiene.


The nature of power and collective unilateral power is the culprit, not any one faction, nor it's acts.

Ten years ago, five years ago, I can imagine myself expressing a similar thought, but I can assure you that if you take the time to track the real tentacles of that power, you will indeed arrive at one central monster.
Pissing around and attmepting to "reform" the current abuses and structures of power will avail you nothing but the smirking appreciation of the Illuminati as yet another useful idiot to their cause.

Nexuseuss
09-15-2005, 01:27 PM
I am truly sad for you, Freeman.

After 5-10 years of your "connect the dots" theory, you've become the very thing which you in all probability despised once upon a time.

There is no future but what we make of it, and though you may crucify that statement down to optimistic naivety or even ignorance of the core inner truths you've been able to uncover and expound on, I'll never submit to an authority on anything which threatens to show and usher in "the way of truth".

There is none but what an individual makes of it for themselves.

If your happy place is to live in a world of intrigue, conspiracy, and secret plots the like of Sun magazines and new age periodicals touting the new colloidal silver of 2000, far be it for me to defecate on your parade.

But don't think for an instant, that I would ever follow someone's theories so devoid of hard evidence, and so reliant on the fact that no hard evidence exists because it's an "Illuminati Conspiracy" so no evidence will ever exist, conveniently.

I'll rely on what I see in my day to day, and you can continue to fabricate humorous antedotes ranging from Monsanto to Madison.

And when the end truly does erupt against both our expectations, I'll stand by my opinions on how people react, and not some prophetic assemblance of random acts and historical happenings glued together in wishful thinking meant to either fill a life's void, or a psyche's emptyness.

I hope I've made myself quite clear on this matter.

freeman
09-15-2005, 02:35 PM
I hope I've made myself quite clear on this matter.

As mud.

Saturnino
09-15-2005, 04:05 PM
Nex,

I didn`t understand a word of what you said.

The only thing I`ve got is that you believe in the basic goodness of people. I find it extremely hard to explain this world, and people who kill babies in sacrifices by this philosophy. I'd like to know where you are living, because I'm willing to move there tomorrow if I can.

psholtz
09-15-2005, 04:27 PM
It's the responsibility of each and every American citizen to fight and overcome the evil that has seized grip of this nation..

truebeliever
09-15-2005, 09:52 PM
I believe the "elite" are those that find personal and economic gain in ruling over the many, by a handful of few.

Yes, but the Elite i'm and others are talking about are not the local millionairs or even billionairs. The corporate managers are but the lackeys of the true Elite...the European Banking and finacial dynasties who trace their lineage back hundreds and even a thousand plus years.

Money is irrelevant to them. Ruling human beings into submission and the adherence to an occult agenda at it's tip, is their thrill for the day. Their power and their meaning in life is not satisfied by mortal thrills. This is what you must grasp.

What we don't appear to agree on is that these elites do so in uniformity of voice and treatied vision.

Again, which "Elites" are we talking about?

I believe the various elites do so out of natural human tendencies to overcome their surroundings and mould them into something to their tastes, without concern for the next gardener, whether in agreeance or not.

Again...your Elites are the garden variety. I am talking about the Elite! They are NOT motivated by profit other than it is a useful tool for the forwarding of an ancient occult based vision for the human race. I know it's hard to believe. When I was exposed to these people I thought them a gigantic joke. I could'nt take them seriously. At a certain moment I realised they are quite sick. Literally.

I see or have read about all the references of global strife you've mentioned... but where we part ways is in the tying in of these acts by yourself as some black and white, "us against them" struggle.

They are just a couple. The point is you seem to think these people are just misguided. Because they wear a suit? Because McNamara has been shedding a few crocdile tears lately? McNamara is shilling for the disarmament movement now. Telling us that "we" are the great danger with "our" nuclear weapons. The answer? Global disarmament under the U.N One World Government.

Would it be better if they wore a tight fitting Devil Suit while they ordered the killing machines in?

Indeed...it IS an "us" against "them" struggle. Good deeds over evil deeds. If you cant tell the difference you are in trouble.

Any reading which has caused you to settle upon a date of 2012 or whatever is reason enough for me to not care to peruse it.

A bit scary for you? You sound a little "absoloute". A little "black & white" on the issue. My belief comes from a multitude of sources. Again, you have peeled back a few layers of onion skin and think you've reached the core.

It clouds any reference to any "historical records" you maintain, and makes me question what profit visions you believe yourself to have recieved.

Tell me yours? BTW we're getting into a certain territory where i tell you to go fuck your mother. I prefer people who just mock openly rather than lefty cock sucker types who start with.."with respect".

I try to keep an open mind about my surroundings, and don't pretend to know how the future will exactly transpire,

Good to know you know which level of understanding you're on. If you stick around we'll teach you. Now what was it someone said here about open minds?

...except to notice the historical reactions of humanity in the past as a guide to what humanity will react to in the future.

Which again shows how woefully under read and lacking in direct experience you are. They will react in accordence to a specific plan laid out for longer than you can imagine.

If the peasantry rufuse to buckle under the initial "benign" and "seductive" aspects of the New World Order program...if inparticular Christendom and Islam prove to be immovable objects in their path...they will go forward with widespread destruction as a weapon of submission. This is their final oppurtunity.

After all, I've never believed in the concept of widespread utopian grandeur embraced by all...either by seduction or force. It hasn't in the past been adhered to.

Good for you! However...the present is NEVER a complete repeat of the past. This is where you fall down.

Please take your mocking tone and shove it. One thing I cant fucking stand is someone who starts their reply's with..."With all respect" or to FREEMAN..."I feel sorry for you".

The truth hurts. You wont last long here.

freeman
09-15-2005, 10:21 PM
I just want to say that after reading over my previous exchanges in this thread, I am not proud of some of the tone and attitude conveyed, and for that I sincerely apologize, Nexseuss.
Obviously, we have a vast chasm of disagreement in regard to the true nature of the ruling elites. In that we may just have to agree to disagree.
I can only reiterate that there are some of us on ths forum who have danced with the devil, and we have firsthand experience to validate our claims.
Once again, I don't blame you for regarding this scenario as outrageous, paranoid and downright frightening. Those were my initial reactions, and nothing would make me happier than if I could convince myself that it is all some sort of mistake or charade. Unfortunately, I have followed this trail from the local racketeers and grafters in my own community all the way up to the highest echelons of national and international society. It is an internecine, interrelated and undeniable conspiracy with a common and recurring element of Satanism.
Indeed, you are correct to say that there is no future but what we make of it. Yet this evil conspiracy is part and parcel of our past, present and future. As the Bible teaches, we must learn to be in this world but not of this world. It is not possible to completely ignore the evil, just to resist submitting to it.
Regardless, this is no way to welcome a newcomer to Club Conspiracy. For that I am abundantly regretful, and I don't want you to think that you have to leave or censure yourself for any reason.
We're all big boys and girls. I like to think we can take it as well as we dish it up. :-)

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 01:01 AM
We're all big boys and girls. I like to think we can take it as well as we dish it up.

I can take it all day. But I prefer open war to snide little shitty remarks from a nerd who's watched Farenheit 9-11. :-D

freeman
09-16-2005, 05:29 AM
Bwahaha... :lol: :lol:
I remember everyone telling me, "Oh, you've got to see Fahrenheit 911. It's such a great film. it exposes everything!"
So when I'm down at the grocery store, I finally pop over to the video department and rent a copy. Afterwards, I'm at home watching it on the DVD player, shaking my head and thinking, "WTF?!! Is this all there is? He didn't even scratch the freakin' surface!Bush and the Saudi Arabians holding hands with each other? That's old news!"

http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/7829/hands5od.jpg

The entire defense grid of the West's greatest Superpower shut down for four hours and permitted a rag-tag team of Islamic terrorists led by a six-feet five inch CIA asset with terminal kidney failure to hijack commercial aircraft at will and destroy some of the nation's biggest landmarks, and this is all Michel Moore can come up with? :-o
Yet for many, it seems to be enough...

Saturnino
09-16-2005, 06:28 AM
I guess there is a disctinction to be made here, It is very possible to live a life far away from the realities of the global occultist elite. I mean, it will always be there, but depending on your good fortune, you can have a life outside of it, caring about your business. That's why it is hard for some people to accept that there is something going on.

I have learned too that God is gracious to let even people who are aware of the global occultist scum's plans to have some kind of a normal life. Especially after you have kids, you know it is important to have some stability in your personal life.

But this is no way means the globalists will stop their schemes and that eventually the consequences will get to you. It is just a survival techinique to keep your sanity.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 06:31 AM
I guess there is a disctinction to be made here, It is very possible to live a life far away from the realities of the global occultist elite. I mean, it will always be there, but depending on your good fortune, you can have a life outside of it, caring about your business. That's why it is hard for some people to accept that there is something going on.

I have learned too that God is gracious to let even people who are aware of the global occultist scum's plans to have some kind of a normal life. Especially after you have kids, you know it is important to have some stability in your personal life.

But this is no way means the globalists will stop their schemes and that eventually the consequences will get to you. It is just a survival techinique to keep your sanity.

Could'nt agree more.

My problem with smarmy boy is when someone lubes up before the shafting. It's still a shafting. I prefer open warfare.

Saturnino
09-16-2005, 06:58 AM
I thought he was a friend of yours. I really didn`t understand a word of what he said.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 03:48 AM
freeman wrote:
I just want to say that after reading over my previous exchanges in this thread, I am not proud of some of the tone and attitude conveyed, and for that I sincerely apologize, Nexseuss.
Obviously, we have a vast chasm of disagreement in regard to the true nature of the ruling elites. In that we may just have to agree to disagree.
I can only reiterate that there are some of us on ths forum who have danced with the devil, and we have firsthand experience to validate our claims.
Once again, I don't blame you for regarding this scenario as outrageous, paranoid and downright frightening. Those were my initial reactions, and nothing would make me happier than if I could convince myself that it is all some sort of mistake or charade. Unfortunately, I have followed this trail from the local racketeers and grafters in my own community all the way up to the highest echelons of national and international society. It is an internecine, interrelated and undeniable conspiracy with a common and recurring element of Satanism.
Indeed, you are correct to say that there is no future but what we make of it. Yet this evil conspiracy is part and parcel of our past, present and future. As the Bible teaches, we must learn to be in this world but not of this world. It is not possible to completely ignore the evil, just to resist submitting to it.
Regardless, this is no way to welcome a newcomer to Club Conspiracy. For that I am abundantly regretful, and I don't want you to think that you have to leave or censure yourself for any reason.
We're all big boys and girls. I like to think we can take it as well as we dish it up. :-)

A sentiment I would like to extend to you as well Freeman. I too found myself stirring in a less than productive motion for a bit, and offer my apologies for doing so to you, and even True Believer. :)

We do have differing opinions, but that's what we're here for... the challenge of each other's viewpoints and how they relate to ours.

I'm not much for the Bible, nor have I been Christian since a decade of latin based Catholic tradition and education which I quietly left. Still though, whether I believe the Bible is correct, incorrect, or partially correct... I do see the intentions of the Bible's interpretations, and by Christians as a motive of decency and understanding our existances on earth, so I could never fault that or anyone who believes in it.

I too have danced with Devils, spied them up close, from afar, and oddly on occasion drank and made merry with them as compatriots and lovers.

To me (solely on an opinion level), I'm of the idea that we all are devils, and all Gods, simultaneously but never equally in measure at any one time. The duality of existance so to speak, much like the ying and yang.

This ability to even recognize our bi polar natures, to me, has been catagorized in many cultures and spiritual as the fall of mankind and the beginning as we know it.

The tree of knowledge, the serpents of tribal Africa, the fruit, etc..

I guess I celebrate the idea that without goodness we can not see the bad and vice versa, and that no entity is complete on this earth, whether for good or bad.

So theories which attempt to portray a unified evil or goodness marching into the battles of our limited history on this earth.. It just doesn't sit right with my gut instincts.

There are offspring to raise, fortunes to chase, relationships to make, and parents to disagree with. heh..

And no, I don't have any hard backed thesis nor personal scriptures to substantiate my gut instincts. lol

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 05:05 AM
And no, I don't have any hard backed thesis nor personal scriptures to substantiate my gut instincts. lol

Yes, thats quite obvious.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 05:13 AM
truebeliever wrote:
And no, I don't have any hard backed thesis nor personal scriptures to substantiate my gut instincts. lol

Yes, thats quite obvious.

Is there any particular reason for which you've taken such a stance in dealing with my reponses, True Believer?

The Bible and Koran were never substantiated beyond initial percieved events, and recorded with instincts. I seem to recall quite a few schisms and edits in that time since for the Bible's various versions of inspired spirituality to at least question how substantiated the works really are.

If we clash, that's fine. Let's do so in discussion and both of us try to avoid snide remarks.

I'm willing to give it a go.

Nex

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 06:16 AM
I will convene a vote of the U.N council to convene a time to consider your request for a cesation of hostilities.

This will then be passed on to a study group for further condideration to assess your suitability for polite discourse.

Cheif Flamer.
Head Kicker Department.
Club Conspiracy.
TB
555 5555 ext:2

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 06:22 AM
truebeliever wrote:
I will convene a vote of the U.N council to convene a time to consider your request for a cesation of hostilities.

This will then be passed on to a study group for further condideration to assess your suitability for polite discourse.

Cheif Flamer.
Head Kicker Department.
Club Conspiracy.
TB
555 5555 ext:2

:-?

We'd never get an agreement or resolution that stuck, then.

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 06:29 AM
Yes but I'm sure a government grant to study the possibilities for peace from a suitable location...say Hawaii...could be arranged?

Dont give up hope yet.

I'm enjoying the grudge. My days are quite boring and I grasp at the excitement afforded by a suitable forum nemisis.

Since Free Mason Boy left I have had no one to hate and my nights are long...

:-)

There, a disarming smiley face.

I have lifted my visor and lowered the lance. My friends say i make a good Serbian.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 06:36 AM
Well, since you're saying it's all in jest, and included a wonderfully pleasant and happy emoticon (warm gushes of UN style humanitarian love awash my body, just so you know), I can't see a problem with a healthy grudge and a few short retorts inbetween the discussion of issues.

:-D There...

(What have you done to me?? It's contagious! Next thing you know, I'll be skipping about the forum in only a bandana and strategically placed sunflower. :-P )

nohope187
09-17-2005, 12:34 PM
Nexuseuss wrote:
My optimism extends into the belief that people aren't intrinsically bad by nature
This is why your understanding will always fall short. I think somone else already said this. :-P

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 04:16 PM
I didn't say people couldn't become lying, cheating, philandering, murdering, and money grubbing crooks with a little helping hand though. :lol:

Or bad cooks and worse lovers.

Being intrinsically good or bad takes conviction and perseverance in this life.

We are just born as is, and most of us, myself included just go with the waxing and waning flow of what works for us at the given moment in time, or taught us a lesson at a given moment back in time, for goodness or less than ideal motives.

If it was so black and white, there wouldn't be free will, and then what would you call existance?

I wouldn't call it existing on any level.

But that's just me questioning my existance and yours cause I can, and therefore I exist....

(You'll have to verify for yourselves if you truly exist) :-P

nohope187
09-17-2005, 04:26 PM
Nexuseuss wrote:


Being intrinsically good or bad takes conviction and perseverance in this life.
Lemme get this straight, being intrinsically bad takes Conviction and Perserverance? You are so smoking crack dude. Okay Mr. enlightened, so why is it easier to be bad than it is to be good?

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 06:24 PM
nohope187 wrote:

Nexuseuss wrote:


Being intrinsically good or bad takes conviction and perseverance in this life.
Lemme get this straight, being intrinsically bad takes Conviction and Perserverance? You are so smoking crack dude. Okay Mr. enlightened, so why is it easier to be bad than it is to be good?

In the light of free will... any black or white action as a total course of existance even to be followed 8 out of 10 times is the stuff of Mother Theresa and Charles Manson lore....

and they were neither completely saintly, nor completely evil, respectively.

I can't answer why it's more difficult in your opinion to be good versus the ease you consider behaving badly, and in whatever ratios implied or not.

I have never smoked "crack" in my life. Though I don't consider crack cocaine to be either good or bad, just existing. Now if I were to smoke crack cocaine by growing it, harvesting it, processing it, and ingesting it privately to myself, then where is the evil in this but in someone else's perceptions?

On the other hand, if I were to kill and steal for it, maime, lie, and emotionally cripple my family for crack cocaine, you would have a basis for calling this act evil.

But the greater majority of people using crack cocaine could be shown in combination of both good and evil lights as their actions are not unilaterally good nor bad, their actions exists as two sides of a coin.

Hope this helps

nohope187
09-17-2005, 07:14 PM
Nexuseuss wrote:
I can't answer why it's more difficult in your opinion to be good versus the ease you consider behaving badly, and in whatever ratios implied or not.
[/quote]My opinion? Duality? That's so predictable of you to give an excuse of why you can't answer other than YOU DON'T KNOW, and then turn a figure of speech into a lecture of "I'm smarter than you" bullshit. Man being left to his own device without guidance only leads no good. It's been proven fact througout history time and time again, but that's right, you ain't no bible thumper. So, I expect that from you.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 07:32 PM
nohope187 wrote:
Nexuseuss wrote:
I can't answer why it's more difficult in your opinion to be good versus the ease you consider behaving badly, and in whatever ratios implied or not.
My opinion? Duality? That's so predictable of you to give an excuse of why you can't answer other than YOU DON'T KNOW, and then turn a figure of speech into a lecture of "I'm smarter than you" bullshit. Man being left to his own device without guidance only leads no good. It's been proven fact througout history time and time again, but that's right, you ain't no bible thumper. So, I expect that from you.[/quote]

If you want to demonize me into something bad, it's your perogative.

I find you to be slighly disturbed and wrong on this point, but I'm sure you're kind to small animals, give to some charities, or whatnot, so I'll stand short of calling you a raving moron pellet from Satan's darkened bowels.

Sincerely Yours,

Nex

nohope187
09-17-2005, 07:55 PM
If you want to demonize me into something bad, it's your perogative.

I find you to be slighly disturbed and wrong on this point, but I'm sure you're kind to small animals, give to some charities, or whatnot, so I'll stand short of calling you a raving moron pellet from Satan's darkened bowels.

Sincerely Yours,

Nex[/quote] Cute, acting like a victim. That's really sad if that's the best you can do.

Saturnino
09-17-2005, 08:05 PM
There is no free will regarding morality. Man is born depraved, according to the Bible, my own mirror and my life experience. No choice here.

Christianity teaches that people are unable to be good by their own efforts. I see selfshiness and egocentrism in my 2 year old niece !

What happens is that socialization puts a restrainer on people's behavior. Fear to go to jail, to be ostracized. This is not the same as godliness that comes from the heart.

Of course, even after receiving Christ the Christian still sins (sometimes a lot). But he has a chance to sin less, as long as he asks for God to help him live the life God wants us to live. Freedom from sin only after you die.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 08:06 PM
No Hope,


Is this thread for insulting people for no apparent reason or is it supposed to have a point to it?


I can't seem to prevent it so go for you life if that's what you enjoy.

Just seems rather pointless, aside from that dunce cap you're so enamoured with.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 08:15 PM
Saturnino wrote:
There is no free will regarding morality. Man is born depraved, according to the Bible, my own mirror and my life experience. No choice here.

Morality is subjective and in dealing with christianity and other religions, entirely related to what new schism or rewrite is happening and influencing the following generations.


Christianity teaches that people are unable to be good by their own efforts. I see selfshiness and egocentrism in my 2 year old niece !

She may see find your behaviour equally disturbing according to her beliefs.

What happens is that socialization puts a restrainer on people's behavior. Fear to go to jail, to be ostracized. This is not the same as godliness that comes from the heart.

I don't believe that goodness and godness are the same thing necessarily, they can be, and often they can be polar opposites.

Of course, even after receiving Christ the Christian still sins (sometimes a lot). But he has a chance to sin less, as long as he asks for God to help him live the life God wants us to live. Freedom from sin only after you die.

Sounds like a defeatist kind of attitude to me. But if it works for you, wear it like a frock I say.

nohope187
09-17-2005, 08:21 PM
Nexuseuss wrote:
No Hope,


Is this thread for insulting people for no apparent reason or is it supposed to have a point to it?


I can't seem to prevent it so go for you life if that's what you enjoy.

Just seems rather pointless, aside from that dunce cap you're so enamoured with.
Hmmm, yes. I'm the one with the small closed mind are I not? Isn't it funny how open minds are always full of shit? :-P

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 08:26 PM
What am I supposedly full of shit about, No Hope.

You insulted my opinion earlier, then proceeded to mince about much like a hooligan clown or something.

Saturnino
09-17-2005, 08:29 PM
Nex,

You are so pretentious, man. I am a defeatist because I admit that I sin ? I can tell you, you probably sin 10 times more than I do, but you parade yourself as someone who will achieve sinless perfection. Look yourself in the mirror, I say. You probably screwed someone today or had an evil thought in the last 5 minutes. Are you never jealous, envious, angry ?

I can tell you that only Jesus gave me strength to sin less. He puts a big red sign before my eyes when I am about to sin. I was pretty fucked up before that.

The problem is that you, as all new agers, believe in the relativism of morality. It takes a lot of blind faith and romaticism to do it. Let someone take your wallet or kick you in the butt and you will see that morality is very absolute and easy to define.

God is the parameter of morality. Without Him, we would be only machines, free to do whatever was best for us. I used to be an existencialist until I saw the absurd that it is to have morals without God. Without God, killing another person means absolutely the same as being good. Who could judge what was best ? Why respect life if you die and there is nothing after it ? Nonsense.

nohope187
09-17-2005, 08:31 PM
Nexuseuss wrote:
What am I supposedly full of shit about, No Hope.

You insulted my opinion earlier, then proceeded to mince about much like a hooligan clown or something.
What's wrong Nex, having memory lapse? And you say I'm enamoured with the dunce cap?

nohope187
09-17-2005, 08:45 PM
You're a good sport, Nex. Had fun talkin' shit to you, man. Come back soon. :-P

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 08:51 PM
Saturnino wrote:
Nex,

You are so pretentious, man. I am a defeatist because I admit that I sin ? I can tell you, you probably sin 10 times more than I do, but you parade yourself as someone who will achieve sinless perfection. Look yourself in the mirror, I say. You probably screwed someone today or had an evil thought in the last 5 minutes. Are you never jealous, envious, angry ?

I do bad things, yes.. and good things. Íf you get the impression that I'm parading, then apologies. No, no evil thought in the last 5 minutes that I can point a stick at. I do however resent your implications that you and I are equal because of your faith of a God I probably don't share in, on any shared level.

That is by far more pretentious to me. You telling me the "truth". Christianity and it's wars, it's vile crimes, oscillations on "morality", and the door to door mosquito like nuisance it often presents as.

I can tell you that only Jesus gave me strength to sin less. He puts a big red sign before my eyes when I am about to sin. I was pretty fucked up before that.

If it works for you, then good luck.

The problem is that you, as all new agers, believe in the relativism of morality. It takes a lot of blind faith and romaticism to do it. Let someone take your wallet or kick you in the butt and you will see that morality is very absolute and easy to define.

Morality for me, or part of is having to deal with spiritualists so convinced that they have the key to their own salvations, they can't seem to mind their own salvations and leave other's out. Especially when they inflict their religions into government and public policy. The morality part is not necking them on the spot for intrusion into my belief system.

God is the parameter of morality. Without Him, we would be only machines, free to do whatever was best for us. I used to be an existencialist until I saw the absurd that it is to have morals without God. Without God, killing another person means absolutely the same as being good. Who could judge what was best ? Why respect life if you die and there is nothing after it ? Nonsense.

You make some leap of faiths not applicable to this conversation and seem genuinely concerned about subjecting another into your realm of fantasy and hocus pocus.

Like I said, whatever floats your boat. Keep your boat out of my waters and we're all happy.

Enter my waters in RL, and see how much sleep I regularly don't lose out on slamming doors on your faces, and tossing your noxious pieces of pulp literature in the bin.

Peace Godrod

Nex

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 08:54 PM
nohope187 wrote:
You're a good sport, Nex. Had fun talkin' shit to you, man. Come back soon. :-P


If the old adage is true, and canines resemble their owners, I suspect you own a small yappish dog that runs into sliding glass doors on a daily basis.

Saturnino
09-17-2005, 09:03 PM
Nex,

It is always the same new age stuff..if it works for you, fine. Meaning there is no absolute truth.

If truth is particular, why do you join a forum like this, just to start ? Just live up with your own personal truth. You can't point people to anything of more value than what they already have. Nobody can teach you anything better than what you have now. If you don't want to have people sticking their necks on your belief system, then what the heck are doing in this forum discussing religion ?

Of course truth is absolute and one of us is wrong.

And you make a big confusion between Christianity, understood as the teachings of Jesus, and organized Church. Any bastard can say he is a Christian and start killing people. But he is not. I agree with you that the Church has done horrible things. But Church is not God. Forget the Church and meditate on what Jesus said instead. Then make up your mind, reject Him if you want, but don't reject Him because of false Christians or because you don't like me or people like me. Fuck me and read the book of John !

You call my reasoning hocus pocus...I think it has a very good logic behind it. Stop and think about it.

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 09:37 PM
This is the perfect example of what Bush and the so called "Christian Right" is doing...energising the Left.

Secular Humanism is fine as a bit of icing, but as it is being pushed as the cake itself, it is highly dangerous.

You can "rationalise" yourself into ANYTHING. I see it every day.

NEX old son...the Jesus Freaks are getting to you. Thats a seperate issue to the undermining of the Christian values that have underpinned your comfortable life here in Oz.

If the Humanists get their way there will be NO juries of your peers and instead an "Inquisitorial" type system of law and government as exists in France.

It's not tomorrow, it's 20+ years from now.

The "practical" consequences of this move need to be articulated. It is not just about "faith". It is about the survival of the species and whether Gods creation will continue.

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 09:45 PM
Saturnino wrote:
Nex,

It is always the same new age stuff..if it works for you, fine. Meaning there is no absolute truth.

Who's "New Age"? I'm old age. I told the Catholic Church and every other recruiting christ wit since where to put it.

I've fed hash cookies to Mormon door knockers that wouldn't get lost, over 70 1lb boxes of artery hardening chocolates to the pedantic nuns of my school days, and will sign any petition that attempts to get the god botherers out of the public houses and back into their own churches and homes where they belong.

If truth is particular, why do you join a forum like this, just to start ? Just live up with your own personal truth. You can't point people to anything of more value than what they already have. Nobody can teach you anything better than what you have now. If you don't want to have people sticking their necks on your belief system, then what the heck are doing in this forum discussing religion ?

The problem is yours, spastic. What started out with a simple morals/ethics discussion was shat in the moment you saw an opening to sell your screwy spirit wares. More in particular, shove them down my throat thinking, I'd just passively let you.

News flash. It's not happening basket case. So you can take whatever psychological coping mechanisms, religious pendants, and Jesus molests my brain embroidered undergarments you have and shove right back off from where you bubbled to the surface of the earth.

The great thing about shared ethics and morals cross culturally or internationally is that they don't rely on a religion. Just common sense. And if you cared to pull your head out of your arse, you'd notice the wars of history when a religion attempt to lay claim to those shared ethics and morals as their own, and "the way-light".


Of course truth is absolute and one of us is wrong.

And you make a big confusion between Christianity, understood as the teachings of Jesus, and organized Church. Any bastard can say he is a Christian and start killing people. But he is not. I agree with you that the Church has done horrible things. But Church is not God. Forget the Church and meditate on what Jesus said instead. Then make up your mind, reject Him if you want, but don't reject Him because of false Christians or because you don't like me or people like me. Fuck me and read the book of John !

How Christian of you, "False Christians".. Shun them and maybe the stink will go away? lol

Instead of attacking non christians, why don't you recoup some of your "false christians" or is old blood bad blood.

Don't bother answering that. The "recruitment drives" always go for new blood to dilute the tainted flowing out. Stop loss at it's finest. Party Plan if you like.

I wouldn't wipe my ase with a religious scripture. If there is such thing as a single "lucifer", then I can tell you who wrote a work which mankind enforces upon each other regardless of beliefs or culture, and has killed hundreds of millions of people.

You call my reasoning hocus pocus...I think it has a very good logic behind it. Stop and think about it.

Your logic is quite simple. You're insecure with your newly embraced hocus pocus bullshit and feel the age old call of the spiritual dumbfounded to sashay about the world talking bollocks, and handing out brochures like I go through condoms and gatoraid.

So to wrap it up, next time you see the words "good" "evil" "right" or "wrong", "black" or "white", put it back in your pants and make like the Amish, the Quakers, and The Brethren, and any other non opportunist spirituality that keep to themselves and don't talk out of their arse.

Religion doesn't have all the share options, in fact, religions are only strong on Bullshit Markets.

Have a nice day,

Nex

Nexuseuss
09-17-2005, 09:48 PM
truebeliever wrote:
This is the perfect example of what Bush and the so called "Christian Right" is doing...energising the Left.

Secular Humanism is fine as a bit of icing, but as it is being pushed as the cake itself, it is highly dangerous.

You can "rationalise" yourself into ANYTHING. I see it every day.

NEX old son...the Jesus Freaks are getting to you. Thats a seperate issue to the undermining of the Christian values that have underpinned your comfortable life here in Oz.

If the Humanists get their way there will be NO juries of your peers and instead an "Inquisitorial" type system of law and government as exists in France.

It's not tomorrow, it's 20+ years from now.

The "practical" consequences of this move need to be articulated. It is not just about "faith". It is about the survival of the species and whether Gods creation will continue.

What is this place? A cover story for Rattlesnake Biters R Us?

heh... "Christian Values".... oh yeah, I see them everyday, and read about them going back for the last 200 years of Australia.

Placebo anyone? :roll:

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 10:25 PM
I am talking about the underpinnings of the judicial and political system.

That one is entitled to justice under God as an individual.

"Let he who is greatest among you serve"...underpins our entire Westminster political system.

Our very social fabric is Christian. Our shared values stem from N.T teachings whether you believe in them or not.

It aint perfect because the people in it are not perfect.

Would you prefer to overthrow "throne" and "alter" and place a competing value system in place? Perhaps "Secular Humanism" with a government based around the power of the U.N? Secular Humanism in more honest times was known as "Dialectical MAterialism". It is the logical extension of an ideology that is responsable for more misery and mayhem than any idea that has ever stemmed from the mind of a man.

Whatever the failings of the Churches and the people in them...God loves you and wants a society that values his highest creation. All else can flow from that.

I am not a lump of meat to be done with as a member of the Elite wishes. That is the point of ultimate values.

Strip them away if you dare...however, i have to live here also and i'd prefer you did'nt.

freeman
09-17-2005, 11:37 PM
I have never smoked "crack" in my life. Though I don't consider crack cocaine to be either good or bad, just existing. Now if I were to smoke crack cocaine by growing it, harvesting it, processing it, and ingesting it privately to myself, then where is the evil in this but in someone else's perceptions?

"Do as thou wilt," -- Aleister Crowley

The old Satanic illusion that one can commit "victimless crimes" that aren't really sins. Amorality, the next step beyond immorality -- and the final step into hell.
These types of analogies are laughable just from a theoretical standpoint. If you are a terminal crackhead, the odds of you being able to indepenently grow, harvest and process your narcotic of choice in total peace and privacy rather than wreaking continuous violence, mayhem and self-destruction to support an uncontrollable, unaffordable addiction are about the same as me becoming a Worshipful Master.
If nothing else, the evil is in the deplorable waste generated by lying around whacked out of one's mind on dope instead of contributing productively to humanity. When Updike wrote that "Actuality is a running impoverishment of potential", he could have been writing the epitaph of any substance abuser, or anyone in general who wastes their God-given gifts and abilities on the hedonistic, narcissistic pursuit of earthly pleasures and distractions under the amoral delusion that "as long as it isn't directly affecting anyone else, it isn't really evil."

truebeliever
09-18-2005, 02:54 AM
Well, i have had loads of drugs and i enjoyed every minute!

What a high!

What a low!

I was lucky, i came to drugs later in life at 27. Had amphetamine been widely available during my teenage years it would have destroyed me.

I'm also lucky to have a strong physical and psychological constitution.

I also have the benefit of having worked in E.D's and mental health as an R.N. Drugs should be regulated. Sorry. Some of this stuff is just too strong to allow people easy access too. It destroys lives, families and is LOVED by occult practitioners and filthy sexual predators.

I'd like to see the Coke and Amphetamine labs especially wiped out.

Spoken selfishly by someone who's had their fun.

We must ask why reality is so bad that we want out.

I agree in principal NEX but it does'nt pan out in practice.

Nexuseuss
09-18-2005, 05:51 AM
truebeliever wrote:
I am talking about the underpinnings of the judicial and political system.

That one is entitled to justice under God as an individual.

"Let he who is greatest among you serve"...underpins our entire Westminster political system.

Our very social fabric is Christian. Our shared values stem from N.T teachings whether you believe in them or not.

It aint perfect because the people in it are not perfect.

Would you prefer to overthrow "throne" and "alter" and place a competing value system in place? Perhaps "Secular Humanism" with a government based around the power of the U.N? Secular Humanism in more honest times was known as "Dialectical MAterialism". It is the logical extension of an ideology that is responsable for more misery and mayhem than any idea that has ever stemmed from the mind of a man.

Whatever the failings of the Churches and the people in them...God loves you and wants a society that values his highest creation. All else can flow from that.

I am not a lump of meat to be done with as a member of the Elite wishes. That is the point of ultimate values.

Strip them away if you dare...however, i have to live here also and i'd prefer you did'nt.

So, if I am to understand your beliefs correctly. Whether "christian" or not, since the western world adopted values loosely based on the Ten Commandments (although not exclusive to christianity, the religious, or generally non religious-spiritual), you would prefer Christian values be upheld, and to those that disagree with Christianity, ignored for the umbrella nature of the Ten Commandments afforded?

hmmm, ends justifies the means in a state supposedly civilized to the point of maintaining clear distinction between seperation of church and state.

Sounds like a defacto marriage to me.

Not thanks. Although I have no beef with people following the basic ideals of co existance in a society, and while many of those align themselves with religious basics, they're not exclusive, and religion has no legal or legitimate right to sneak in under the radar in some perseverance or recruitment drive tactic.

Nice theories, but in the end, they pertain to you and only you. Learn to pay other viewpoints more than lip service, and stealth infiltration movement into the framework of society, and a lot of the disgust might abate.

Nexuseuss
09-18-2005, 06:10 AM
freeman wrote:

I have never smoked "crack" in my life. Though I don't consider crack cocaine to be either good or bad, just existing. Now if I were to smoke crack cocaine by growing it, harvesting it, processing it, and ingesting it privately to myself, then where is the evil in this but in someone else's perceptions?

"Do as thou wilt," -- Aleister Crowley

The old Satanic illusion that one can commit "victimless crimes" that aren't really sins. Amorality, the next step beyond immorality -- and the final step into hell.

That's if you can believe in the concept of hell as the scaremongers would love us to tremble over and anty up more donations, in basket and in votes.

Is a christian special interest lobby in washington or canberra using their clout to unequally affect legislation or voting outcomes, moral? There is no face of victimhood to them, and they move without guilt, and wrongly so.

These types of analogies are laughable just from a theoretical standpoint. If you are a terminal crackhead, the odds of you being able to indepenently grow, harvest and process your narcotic of choice in total peace and privacy rather than wreaking continuous violence, mayhem and self-destruction to support an uncontrollable, unaffordable addiction are about the same as me becoming a Worshipful Master.


That is not for you to pass judgement on, quite frankly. More end justifies the means malarky I see here.
If nothing else, the evil is in the deplorable waste generated by lying around whacked out of one's mind on dope instead of contributing productively to humanity.

Oh, why didn't you say, "productively to humanity" right from the start? I see the deplorable waste you speak of quite clearly now, and have to laugh.

When Updike wrote that "Actuality is a running impoverishment of potential", he could have been writing the epitaph of any substance abuser, or anyone in general who wastes their God-given gifts and abilities on the hedonistic, narcissistic pursuit of earthly pleasures and distractions under the amoral delusion that "as long as it isn't directly affecting anyone else, it isn't really evil."

heh, nice one. Paint the field between the only two polar choices you'll recognize and bear witness to others, then caulk the gaps with what basically amounts to a "you're either with us or against us, agree with us or don't, either correct like us, or delusional simpletons" mantra.

My gifts abilities are, therefore they exist.

Newsflash: I don't play on your narrow minded little god game field. If it helps you to process what you see, how you react, and how you view yourself and others in this life, that's fine by me to quietly stand back, and respectfully chuckle to myself.

If you rephrase your last sentence to "as long as it isn't directly affecting anyone else, it isn't anyone's business but my own" and we'll agree on something, I suspect.

Been a pleasure,

Nex

Nexuseuss
09-18-2005, 06:24 AM
truebeliever wrote:
Well, i have had loads of drugs and i enjoyed every minute!

What a high!

What a low!

I was lucky, i came to drugs later in life at 27. Had amphetamine been widely available during my teenage years it would have destroyed me.

I'm also lucky to have a strong physical and psychological constitution.

Is that a stand and deliver bearing witness, christian self help platform you're precariously standing on?

I also have the benefit of having worked in E.D's and mental health as an R.N. Drugs should be regulated. Sorry. Some of this stuff is just too strong to allow people easy access too. It destroys lives, families and is LOVED by occult practitioners and filthy sexual predators.

occult practitioners and filthy sexual predators?

Thanks for verifying your fragile state of mind and grasp of reality while not on drugs.

I'd like to see the Coke and Amphetamine labs especially wiped out

Sure. Maybe a crusade? How about an Inquisition, McCarthy, or Scopes Monkey Trial?

Spoken selfishly by someone who's had their fun.

We must ask why reality is so bad that we want out.

I agree in principal NEX but it doesn't pan out in practice.

ahem. of course. The ends justifies the means, naturally. Principal is no substitute for practice.

Thank you for firing your own first shot at the destruction of civilization and religion as you know it.

That dirty vile idea. Who cares if it's a high one at that, when practice shows us that principles mean nothing, and should be treated accordingly.

Thank you again. I shall be quickly fetching a 16 year old wife against her will, enforcing a family against their will, and finding our daily crusts as my endentured family are forced by me to work in our lucrative small family meth lab.

We all are fed, watered, clothed, and sheltered now. Poverty is gone, longevity of life assured, and I get a nice piece of arse to boot.

I can't thank you enough for your enlightened views.

Thank you for understanding practical over principle.

truebeliever
09-18-2005, 07:13 AM
You're a fuckhead NEXUS.

My point was clear.

It's all well and good but you've never cleaned up the mess.

Get your head out of your arse.

You need to get your head out of a book and into a Emergency Department and maybe a mental institution to see the mess and deal with it.

Or maybe the granny who's just been raped by the kid off his head on Meth looking for her pension money for a fix.

Or the paedophile ring and Satanist cult up in the hills doing lines and lotsa other wonderful things.

You know NOTHING of the street. I've met you a million times before.

Get down to the Socialist Allience meeting or the anti-war demonstration. The best place for you.

The burbs are your place. Stay there.

An ABSOLOUTE know all know nothing.

Stick to your playstation.

Nexuseuss
09-18-2005, 07:34 AM
truebeliever wrote:
You're a fuckhead NEXUS.

Just a garden variety or do I have a flavour?

My point was clear.

It's all well and good but you've never cleaned up the mess.

The religious make the best janitors, cross fondler. They can find immoral bacteria and social virus where none exist but their own mind. And they wear those wonderful uniforms and garbs. Very professional they are. :roll:

Get your head out of your arse.

Sure thing. I'll fashion my arse like a race day carnival hat and wear it with your coped up conviction.

You need to get your head out of a book and into a Emergency Department and maybe a mental institution to see the mess and deal with it.

I thought my head was in my arse? :-o

Or maybe the granny who's just been raped by the kid off his head on Meth looking for her pension money for a fix.

Due to the religious lobby enforcing it's views on society and government, those not in it's charge suddenly are forced to actually make a conscious effort to do "bad" in order to satisfy their needs. Had drugs never been wrongly illegalized, there wouldn't be this breeding ground for church sanctioned divide and conquer religious crusading on those that have no ties with christianity, yet seem to be drawn into the bullshit at every turn because Christians majority speaking, can't seem to mind their own damn religion and business.

Or the paedophile ring and Satanist cult up in the hills doing lines and lotsa other wonderful things.

You watch too many movies, bucko.

You NOTHING of the street. I've met you a million times before.

You've never met me, nor anyone of my type. And that void of not knowing, scares you.

The burbs are your place. Stay there.

Should I be rocking the suburbs just like Michaell Jackson did? He's innocent, you know. Proven in a court of law. No evidence to convict.

An ABSOLOUTE know all know nothing.

It's absolute, actually.

Stick to your playstation.

I promise to go out and buy a video game console, if you pledge to desist in ever rubbing yourself up against religious relics and comparing the size of your spiritual splinters again.

Which side of the glass were you on in the mental ward? :lol:

Saturnino
09-18-2005, 07:09 PM
Nex,

I find it hard to debate with you because your posts are so badly written that nobody can understand them. The only thing I see is that you hate Christianity and you don't like people talking about it. Did you get screwed by a priest when you were young or something like it ?

As I said before, if you don't want discuss religion, don't start talking about it. I never in this forum started a religious discussion, I just don't like people talking shit about Christianity.
If you do, prepare yourself for an intelligent answer.

If you want to reject Christ, to Hell with you, it is your choice, but at least try to develop some better logic than "there is no absolute morality" or "I am on my way to sinless perfection" or "truth is relative". You are a romantic new age fool. And so dumb that you even don't realize that you follow new age ideas !

Look at the right top of your screen and you will see a picture of Satan holding the world in his hands. Most people in this forum believe this is true (that's why they are here), so your childish insults don't really impress anyone. In fact, if you didn't realize, everybody here thinks you are a silly person.

igwt
09-18-2005, 08:56 PM
Saturnino wrote:
Nex,

I find it hard to debate with you because your posts are so badly written that nobody can understand them. The only thing I see is that you hate Christianity and you don't like people talking about it. Did you get screwed by a priest when you were young or something like it ?

As I said before, if you don't want discuss religion, don't start talking about it. I never in this forum started a religious discussion, I just don't like people talking shit about Christianity.
If you do, prepare yourself for an intelligent answer.

If you want to reject Christ, to Hell with you, it is your choice, but at least try to develop some better logic than "there is no absolute morality" or "I am on my way to sinless perfection" or "truth is relative". You are a romantic new age fool. And so dumb that you even don't realize that you follow new age ideas !

Look at the right top of your screen and you will see a picture of Satan holding the world in his hands. Most people in this forum believe this is true (that's why they are here), so your childish insults don't really impress anyone. In fact, if you didn't realize, everybody here thinks you are a silly person.

Second the above

IGWT :-)

Nexuseuss
09-18-2005, 11:03 PM
What a lovely pair of crucified halfwits you two make, replete with holy water enemas, and those christian heartland right wing ding feed buckets lashed down to your psychological straight jackets. :roll:

If there is a devil, he has both of you haltered to a surrey as he drives you in illogical circles.


Trust a set of religious nuts to selfishly lay self possessive claim to the concepts of good and evil, then attack with righteous fervor anyone whom highlights the fact.

Carry on, you holy vessels of debate.

igwt
09-19-2005, 12:36 AM
http://www.rense.com/1.imagesH/amerika.jpg

Rense Link (http://www.rense.com/)

Saturnino
09-19-2005, 08:54 AM
Nex,

You haven't highlighted ANY facts. All you do is whine and whine.
If you have anything to say, then SAY IT. Stop complaining, baby boy.
BTW, if you think that I or iqwt are right wing people, you really didn't get anything.

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 09:19 AM
Facts? If we were all to rely solely on what is given to us, neither of us would have a platform to stand on in discussing any of these issues.

We may have historical facts (ie. George Washington was a Mason, or the Californian gold rush began in the 1840's), "but" the underlying scenarios of those times, and theoreticals have never been backed up with the same factual clarity as these simple events and accepted historical notes.

In other words. Maybe George Washington was a casual member of the Masons as many were in his time, and the first Gold Rush in California happened at least a decade earlier, it's members wore blue and were few.

Prove otherwise.

You can't even with a plethora of modern self styled "authorities", or inquistive college professors on a summer field trip across the US's credential only libraries.

So in the end, all you and I have are "theories".

And sorry to say for us, theories we didn't even arrive at on our own for the most part. Theories of other's unsubstantiated theories.

Difference is, I recognize only this as a pure "fact" with any truth.

Gut instinct on the nature of humanity is a far better yard stick to understanding our history than choosing which papers, films, and dubious radio stations/periodicals will conveniently fit into a punter's wishes for info to snuggly fit into their quaint little viewpoints.

That's your ego and environment talking, not fact.

If you insist on a "fact" from my gut instincts, I'll throw you a cookie, spaniel.

History repeats and humanity's multi layered facets never change.

And it is my gut instinct that no matter how you and iggy want to swing from the proverbial vine, you both do so with right grunts in a clefted leftist mouth.

(yes, yes, I know. You DON'T understand.) :roll:

Which of course is your own misfortunes and none of my own.

Get along little doggies.

Saturnino
09-19-2005, 09:37 AM
nex,

Are you on dope, man ?

You yourself said that I was attacking you because you were highlighting the FACTS and now you say you can't provide FACTS ?!!! Did you forget what you have just written ?

Your post makes absolutely no sense. You talk about the Gold Rush, about gut feelings...one thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't know even how to answer, because I don't know what to answer to!

My gut feelings say you are a VERY confused person.

You are wasting our time here in this forum. I suggest you go to a bar and get a very drunk guy to talk to...maybe you would make sense to each other.

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 09:46 AM
Saturnino wrote:
nex,

Are you on dope, man ?
Your post makes absolutely no sense. You talk about the Gold Rush, about gut feelings...one thing has nothing to do with the other. I don't know even how to answer, because I don't know what to answer to!

My gut feelings say you are a VERY confused person.

You are wasting our time here in this forum. I suggest you go to a bar and get a very drunk guy to talk to...maybe you would make sense to each other.

Maybe you'd understand if I hummed the tune through an ancient Crusader's horn, so you could bath in the spittle like a caged hamster and call it "god's" celestial dew? :roll:

Here's another two for you.

The supposedly dirty vile Mary M, was actually not a whore, but Jesus's legal wife, whom later fled to France, and inspired a royal British line many generations later. The biblical rewrite was designed to maintain a somewhat manageable order to it's followers.

Joseph, Jesus's father regularly got jiggy with his wife, Mary. She less than immaculately had more children.

Prove otherwise.

3-2-1, go go go go! :roll:

Saturnino
09-19-2005, 09:55 AM
True Believer,

You really overestimated the guy when you said he had seen the Matrix movie and read Carl Jung. I just found out he only read "The Da Vinci Codes" !!!

Nex,

you are so ignorant on Bible studies that you think that affirming that Mary and Joseph had other children would be a blow in Christianity. Protestants have been saying for 500 years that after the virgin birth of Christ Mary had natural children from Joseph. So what ?

As I said, you are wasting our time.

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 10:14 AM
Saturnino wrote:
True Believer,

You really overestimated the guy when you said he had seen the Matrix movie and read Carl Jung. I just found out he only read "The Da Vinci Codes" !!!

Are they both factual works in your ever heightened knowledge of truth versus trumped up myth?

Nex,

you are so ignorant on Bible studies that you think that affirming that Mary and Joseph had other children would be a blow in Christianity. Protestants have been saying for 500 years that after the virgin birth of Christ Mary had natural children from Joseph. So what ?

So prove it.

Funny thing is, you can't though. In fact, you can't even prove that the bible is a true work of a "divine creator".

(after all, YOU just second guessed where you have acquired as a Christian the very "supreme" belief that your christianity is based on.)

Do you fancy yourself as "God's" equal then? Isn't that against your ten commandments? Surely it's profane? Or do YOU decide what your god believes in, and feels? Do you support great schisms when someone disagrees with their "god", and changes the bible to suit?

Did you agree with the old Mormon polygamy angle?

The questions will keep coming, mind you. Though I don't see you of mind to answer them factually.

Unless you're your own "god" now. hahahaha

As I said, you are wasting our time.

ahhh, You must be your own "god". After all, only a "god" can speak on behalf of the nameless, faceless hordes he/she/it created in "likeness".




Keep it buddy. You're just digging yourself a deeper hole. :roll:

(We can end your suffering, oh messiah of truth and morality, if you agree to leave general ethics and morality comments linked apart from any religion or man made theatrics. I, in turn, shall not speak ill of your belief system. You should take this olive branch, for your own salvation of course)

Nex

Marsali
09-19-2005, 10:55 AM
You're ranting and raving, Nex. Calm down, and try to explain, minus the hysterics, why it is that you have so much anger against Christianity. Unless you live in the Bible Belt, it's unlikely that you're having Christian beliefs shoved down your throat.
If you're going to bring up all that New Age nonsense on this forum, you're going to be challenged.

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 11:08 AM
Marsali wrote:
You're ranting and raving, Nex. Calm down, and try to explain, minus the hysterics, why it is that you have so much anger against Christianity. Unless you live in the Bible Belt, it's unlikely that you're having Christian beliefs shoved down your throat.
If you're going to bring up all that New Age nonsense on this forum, you're going to be challenged.

Ranting and raving? heheheh, ok, sure :roll:

I don't have any anger. I do not however allow any self righteous pseudo political groups or elitists the opportunity to rule over my life with distant underhanded tactics, then let them talk down to me when I point out that they are not the only way, nor "truth" as observed by numerous cultures, belief systems, and viewpoints which make up the human race.

No one has challenged my beliefs here, because I haven't named or even hinted at the entirety of what they actual are. That's my perogative.

Nice to see that you are so tolerant of other views such as the aforementioned "New Age" views you've assigned me without my permission nor admission as being true.

Nonsense is it?

One merely compare Christianity and New Age histories to see which wins the stakes on that one, doofus. :roll:

Thumper
09-19-2005, 11:45 AM
wow, my thread has become quite the clusterfuck hasn't it :-P :-P

Marsali
09-19-2005, 12:06 PM
One doesn't have to know your exact beliefs in order to make inferences based on your posts.
New Age beliefs are nonsense except to those who have been enchanted by its lies. Is that an intolerant viewpoint? Yes, it is.

Though I'm no expert, I don't mind making a comparison of Christianity and new ageism.

You would, I presume, point out that Christianity has been the perpetrator of the crusades and inquisition, not to mention that Christians owned slaves and that some Christians were involved in atrocities carried out on American Indians. Let me know if I left something out.

The new age movement began in the U.S. when Helena K. Blavatsky came to the U.S. in the late 1800's and began the Theosophical Society here. They were the first to bring new ageism/occultism out into the open.
It has been documented that Hitler was devoted to Blavatsy's teachings via her book 'The Secret Doctrine,' and that he kept a copy of it by his bedside for many years. Many believe that he was indeed a student of the occult and that it influenced his racial and political policies.

New age occultism is one of the tools that the
Illuminati have used in order to take people away from religion and a belief in a supreme God. New ageism was also invented to get people to accept a 'world religion,' not based on religious truth, but on new age truth, and of acceptance that there is no real distinction between any of the religions.

igwt
09-19-2005, 12:40 PM
Thumper wrote:
wow, my thread has become quite the clusterfuck hasn't it :-P :-P

Notice how the thread started on one subject and now is hijacked on another subject...interesting...troll alert!

:-o

freeman
09-19-2005, 01:15 PM
Wow, that was a great post, Marsalis.
I designate you my official spokesperson on "New-Ageism". :-D

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 01:20 PM
Marsali wrote:
One doesn't have to know your exact beliefs in order to make inferences based on your posts.
New Age beliefs are nonsense except to those who have been enchanted by its lies. Is that an intolerant viewpoint? Yes, it is.

My posts paint me as a "new ager", or does my lack of mystical enchantment over christianity automatically permit you to tar, feather, and set me alight like a free thinking scapegoat in Salem?

Though I'm no expert, I don't mind making a comparison of Christianity and new ageism.

Don't let that stop you. After all, you already mentioned you're intolerant and believe New Age is enchanted by lies.

You would, I presume, point out that Christianity has been the perpetrator of the crusades and inquisition, not to mention that Christians owned slaves and that some Christians were involved in atrocities carried out on American Indians. Let me know if I left something out.

Just a dozen or more modern wars, infiltration into courts and schools, the making of laws to name a few.

The new age movement began in the U.S. when Helena K. Blavatsky came to the U.S. in the late 1800's and began the Theosophical Society here. They were the first to bring new ageism/occultism out into the open.

Yet Christianity and Paganism went hand in hand where it suited Christianity, and lopped off pagan hand where it suited also, many centuries before that. They borrowed from the pagan seasons, holidays, and celebrations, drew parallels, and such.

It has been documented that Hitler was devoted to Blavatsy's teachings via her book 'The Secret Doctrine,' and that he kept a copy of it by his bedside for many years. Many believe that he was indeed a student of the occult and that it influenced his racial and political policies.

Many believed he was also a Vegetarian. But it's been widely commented that he partook of squab and bavarian sausage on a regular occasion. Keep reaching, kiddo.

New age occultism is one of the tools that the
Illuminati have used in order to take people away from religion and a belief in a supreme God. New ageism was also invented to get people to accept a 'world religion,' not based on religious truth, but on new age truth, and of acceptance that there is no real distinction between any of the religions.

Sure thing pal. :roll:

freeman
09-19-2005, 01:31 PM
wow, my thread has become quite the clusterfuck hasn't it

Heh, heh, heh...proud of yourself, aren't you? :-D :-P

Nexuseuss
09-19-2005, 01:32 PM
igwt wrote:

Thumper wrote:
wow, my thread has become quite the clusterfuck hasn't it :-P :-P

Notice how the thread started on one subject and now is hijacked on another subject...interesting...troll alert!

:-o

Funny how this thread began with discussion, and respectful at that, then it degenerated into a free for all where a bunch of christians took it upon themselves to gang up on one lone person, and paint them as some kind of new age devil merely because I don't abide by religious denominations or fools.

I tried to let this go, and Freeman offered a first hand. It's been a few opportunists after that thought it fair sport to poke and prod in the name of christian values.

You wanted to know why I don't value christian values?

Proof is here in this thread.

Good luck with the modern witch hunt, boys and girls. I won't be posting in this thread any further.

Lap at my ankles in another thread of designed humping.

Marsali
09-19-2005, 01:56 PM
Hey, freeman, thanks. Guess all those years I thought I wasted in the new age occult movement weren't all for nothing.
I agree Nex, this subject needs to end, but just want to address a few things in your post.
If you aren't a new ager, my apologies, as I have a tendency to see a new ager behind every tree (or post).
Our courts and schools weren't infiltrated by religion; they started out in the beginning with basic religious ideals (re: U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights). Seeming fanatics on both the Left and Right have wreaked havoc on these systems, who are controlled ultimately by the Illuminati.
You're right that some of our customs have come from Pagan sources; those scary Xmas trees and misletoe have gotta go!
But there's a big difference between Hitler's devotion to the occult, and that of being a vegetarian and partaking of Bavarian sausage and squab (what the heck is squab, anyway?).

Saturnino
09-19-2005, 03:39 PM
<quote>
Nex said:
I don't have any anger.
<end quote>

what a joke ! The only thing the guy do is to insult others. He is full of anger. Just see his temper tantrums.

<quote>

No one has challenged my beliefs here, because I haven't named or even hinted at the entirety of what they actual are. That's my perogative.
<end quote>

I call this being disonest. You are in a forum, it is easy to attack others while you don't say in what you believe. Grow up.

Hmmm...two alternatives here: either Nex is a silly teenager full of hormones or he is a Wicca or some shit like that in disguise, entering the forum just to mess up things and as someone said, to derail the conversation. The guy didn't add ANYTHING to the discussion, never explains what he is all about, only causes disruption.

Either way, I am out of his game.

oneview
03-13-2010, 09:25 PM
There is no free will regarding morality. Man is born depraved, according to the Bible, my own mirror and my life experience. No choice here.

Christianity teaches that people are unable to be good by their own efforts. I see selfshiness and egocentrism in my 2 year old niece !

What happens is that socialization puts a restrainer on people's behavior. Fear to go to jail, to be ostracized. This is not the same as godliness that comes from the heart.

Of course, even after receiving Christ the Christian still sins (sometimes a lot). But he has a chance to sin less, as long as he asks for God to help him live the life God wants us to live. Freedom from sin only after you die.

Most likely seen, as you put it, from in the eyes of - outside of ones' self.

Unlikely there from based on ourselves, solely.

oneview
03-13-2010, 09:36 PM
Nex,

You are so pretentious, man. I am a defeatist because I admit that I sin ? I can tell you, you probably sin 10 times more than I do, but you parade yourself as someone who will achieve sinless perfection. Look yourself in the mirror, I say. You probably screwed someone today or had an evil thought in the last 5 minutes. Are you never jealous, envious, angry ?

I can tell you that only Jesus gave me strength to sin less. He puts a big red sign before my eyes when I am about to sin. I was pretty fucked up before that.

The problem is that you, as all new agers, believe in the relativism of morality. It takes a lot of blind faith and romaticism to do it. Let someone take your wallet or kick you in the butt and you will see that morality is very absolute and easy to define.

God is the parameter of morality. Without Him, we would be only machines, free to do whatever was best for us. I used to be an existencialist until I saw the absurd that it is to have morals without God. Without God, killing another person means absolutely the same as being good. Who could judge what was best ? Why respect life if you die and there is nothing after it ? Nonsense.

I would say the answers to your questions, are in our selves.
It is something to get into - ones' self.
Where one can find - real answers.

oneview
03-13-2010, 09:41 PM
Nex,

It is always the same new age stuff..if it works for you, fine. Meaning there is no absolute truth.

If truth is particular, why do you join a forum like this, just to start ? Just live up with your own personal truth. You can't point people to anything of more value than what they already have. Nobody can teach you anything better than what you have now. If you don't want to have people sticking their necks on your belief system, then what the heck are doing in this forum discussing religion ?

Of course truth is absolute and one of us is wrong.

And you make a big confusion between Christianity, understood as the teachings of Jesus, and organized Church. Any bastard can say he is a Christian and start killing people. But he is not. I agree with you that the Church has done horrible things. But Church is not God. Forget the Church and meditate on what Jesus said instead. Then make up your mind, reject Him if you want, but don't reject Him because of false Christians or because you don't like me or people like me. Fuck me and read the book of John !

You call my reasoning hocus pocus...I think it has a very good logic behind it. Stop and think about it.

Part of the "problem".

We live our own lives.
We do not - submit ourselves - to outside of us.

Even IF, we don't know it, or can't see it.

oneview
03-13-2010, 10:41 PM
Who will be the first to confront the menace of America?

Limiting - such confrontation - to the nations of the world:
America does not seem to be confrontable, in such "warring" way.

There's a number of beliefs around, that are not, outright excludable.
Which would have to be voiced, on this matter.

What's the chances, America,
will not suffer a downfall?
I think, chances are pretty-good, that America will stand.

BlueAngel
03-13-2010, 11:25 PM
Who will be the first to confront the menace of America?

Limiting - such confrontation - to the nations of the world:
America does not seem to be confrontable, in such "warring" way.

There's a number of beliefs around, that are not, outright excludable.
Which would have to be voiced, on this matter.

What's the chances, America,
will not suffer a downfall?
I think, chances are pretty-good, that America will stand.

America has been in a downfall for quite some time now.

She may stand, but she will never be that which she should be, that which she could be or that which she once was.

She is owned and operated by corrupt elements within our government, military and the IMF whose allegiance does not lie with her but with their own global interests.

America has been a useful tool for them to this end.

i love my shlong
03-15-2010, 11:47 AM
chuck norris

kerry
03-17-2010, 09:26 PM
seems like paranoia seting in
thats just what they..terrorist want.
but its not paranoia.. ita anger seting in.. anger because every day it cost lives so we at home can live without a threat. every day it cost us our money our homes our jobs to pay the bill to live in safty at the cost of lives every day. and there is no cure fot it bbut to kill every terrorist that walks on this earth. at the cost of more lives. so what is going to happen is the same thing as the adom bomb in ww2. for the same reasons i just typed here. to stop lost of lives on the side of the west at the cost of lives in the east. we will end up nukeing them. to stop the war on terror and save lives on the west and fix the econimy. at the cost of lives in the east. if not it will cost lives in the west and the east.. and america will fall into another depression. so the fact is there is no cure for this. what is happening now is we the west is waiting for the east to make the first move. so the launching of nukes from the west can be justafied. any way you look at it.. it will continue as it is now or a ww3. and end of the world.. got any ideas?

oneview
03-18-2010, 07:51 AM
Will "life" ever learn to - live and be?
Failing to do so, what could come of it all?
Questions, may increase dialogue.

For some reason, life, appears to be, fighting the unknown.
Could the final solution, be extinction of it all?
Unthinkable, but failing to live on, ....

Is there anyone, that would not be in favour of, them and theirs?

kerry
04-07-2010, 04:57 PM
here are people trying to figgure out how it will end
forgeting that befor or after they will end

kerry
04-09-2010, 10:07 AM
ok.. i take it that the topic is in what way if they do will they attack america.
w2ell let me see now first they have to stop hideing behind woman and children.