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freeman
09-16-2005, 09:51 PM
For some reason, this story from today's Pittsburgh Post-Gazette set off my internal radar.
What is going on here? Why would the largest investment houses on Wall Street be sinking money into bankrupt airline stocks? I'm getting a fuzzy deja vu flashback to the mysterious trading just before 9/11, with airline stocks being sold short by individuals who appeared to have inside knowledge of the pending attack.
But what are the insiders betting on this time? Do they know that Peak Oil is a scam and they're hoping to make a killing when fuel prices suddenly drop in the future, maybe the near future? Are they anticipating another act of terror or manufactured disaster that will somehow increase the value of airliine stocks? Are railways or other modes of transportation about to be targeted? I put it to you ladies and gentlemen:

Heard on the Street (http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05259/572880.stm)

Heard on the Street: Why were savvy investors in Delta, Northwest?

Friday, September 16, 2005
By Gregory Zuckerman, The Wall Street Journal

Who would be foolish enough to buy up the shares and debt of struggling Delta Air Lines and Northwest Airlines? Some of the smartest investors on Wall Street, that's who.

In recent months, hedge funds including Ziff Brothers Investments LLC and Kingdon Capital Management LLC, as well as money managers like Charles Schwab Corp.'s U.S. Trust Corp., Wellington Management Co. and Deutsche Bank AG all piled into shares of the airlines, according to regulatory filings. And in recent days, a rush of hedge funds bought up Northwest's debt, betting that the airline would avert a bankruptcy filing.

Bad call. Northwest and Delta both made voluntary Chapter 11 filings Wednesday. Delta's shares, which hit $4 in June, Thursday were at 75 cents, up 5.6 percent, in 4 p.m. composite trading on the New York Stock Exchange. Northwest tumbled 53 percent Thursday to 88 cents in 4 p.m. composite trading on the Nasdaq Stock Market, after trading above $6 in June.

New York-based Ziff reported Aug. 10 that it had built a new position of almost 5.3 million Northwest shares, or about 6 percent of the airline's outstanding shares. For its part, Wellington established a new position in Delta during the second quarter of this year, buying up 5.3 million shares, though the Boston-based firm reduced its position in Northwest to 2.4 million shares from about 5.1 million in the first quarter, according to regulatory filings.

Others got out in the nick of time, though not without having losses. On July 28, large hedge fund SAC Capital Advisors LLC said it had added 2.8 million shares to an existing 2.1 million-share position in Northwest, while on July 14 SAC reported that it added 5.8 million shares to a 3.7 million stock position in Delta, according to FactSet Research Systems Inc. People close to the firm say SAC exited these big positions a few weeks ago, selling Northwest stock when it was still around $3 a share, avoiding some of the pain. But SAC still lost money on the trades.

Regulatory filings provide a snapshot of holdings on a certain date, of course, and the investors may have adjusted their positions, or offset them with other trades. Still, all the buying is surprising because it came in the face of persistent worries about the impact on airlines of hefty fuel and labor costs, onerous pension obligations, strained union relations, brutal competition and a history of well-regarded hedge funds getting burned by betting on airlines.

Representatives of Ziff, Kingdon, Deutsche and Wellington declined to comment.

So what were these guys thinking? Some of these investors say they were hopeful that Northwest could forge a closer relationship with it unions, helping to send shares close to $10. Others viewed the investments as inexpensive ways to bet that oil prices would fall. Had jet-fuel prices dropped, instead of soaring after Hurricane Katrina, the airlines would have been much healthier, and the stocks likely would have climbed. Indeed, shares of other airlines, such as AMR Corp. and Continental Airlines rose over the summer as business travel picked up.

The days leading up to Northwest's bankruptcy have seen particularly strong buying of the airline's debt, traders say. One reason they had hope: Northwest never arranged debtor-in-possession financing from creditors, usually a precursor to a bankruptcy filing, suggesting to the investors that the airline wasn't about to file. Northwest has said that it decided against a DIP because it believes it has sufficient cash and most of its assets already are pledged.

Some sophisticated investors are trying to establish large positions to gain a seat at the table when the airlines' fates are negotiated. Still others are hoping that the airlines could end up merging with rivals or think Congress will step in to provide pension relief.

Thursday, trading in the debt was heated, as some traditional money-management firms and mutual funds sold bonds, while some investors covered short positions, or bets against the price of the bonds, by buying back the debt. In recent weeks, others traded "recovery swaps." These new instruments are an obligation to buy the cheapest bond within 30 days of a default, an attractive investment for those convinced that the value of the debt will rise during the bankruptcy process.

Northwest's most heavily traded bonds, those maturing in 2008, traded at about 24 cents on the dollar Thursday, down from 26 cents late Wednesday and from about 34 cents last week. Though the equity of the airlines likely will be wiped out, there likely is some value to the bonds at these levels, some say, because the bonds will be converted into equity in the airlines when they emerge from Chapter 11.

"I can't guess the value of jet fuel in 18 months when the airlines emerge, but there is some value to the bonds at these levels," said David Feinman, managing director at Havens Advisors LLC, a New York hedge fund. He says he hasn't yet purchased debt of the airlines, though he has wagered against the shares of the carriers. "But you better have a strong stomach and a lot of patience to get involved at this point."

That hedge funds continue to place big bets on airlines is somewhat surprising given the poor track record many of the best in the business have in divining the future of this notoriously challenging business. Legendary investors Michael Steinhardt and Julian Robertson both suffered big losses from stakes in US Airways Group. Warren Buffett made money investing in US Air but not before writing off 75 percent of its value and calling it a "mistake." Carl Icahn had a difficult ride after gaining control of Trans World Airlines in 1986. In all, more than 100 airlines have filed for bankruptcy in the past 25 years.

truebeliever
09-16-2005, 10:11 PM
Hmmmm...

If it's a mid term investment oppertunity...say 18months to 2 years then i'd say a period of peace and prosperity was on the way.

Just take the chip...and the travel, like life, becomes cheap.

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 02:21 AM
I have consulted my crystal ball.

Through the swirling mist of uncertainty and butterfly wing turbulence...i say the Federal Government is going to nationalise the airlines at a very generous price and run it uniformly as a National Security issue vital for the health and safety of the nations economy.

No doubt Halliburton will be buying up.

Your biometric papers please citizen.

Just some wild speculation.

Shannow
09-17-2005, 02:28 AM
Not a bad concept.

Especially in times of national emergency, when large numbers of people need to be relocated quickly, and as far away as possible.

freeman
09-17-2005, 07:07 AM
Could this nationalization of the airlines be accomodated by another act of terrorism, possibly on a foreign airline flying to the United States? The preprogrammed rationale being that the U. S. must have control of all flights in and out of the country in order to maintain Homeland Security?
And of course a nationalized airline will operate with all of the benefits and profit margins of Haliburton, i. e., government subsidies on everything from oil to airport terminals, big tax breaks, no competitive pricing. And as Shannow says, the implicit benefit of controlling all of the nation's air transportation as the icing on the cake.
Maybe the Bush insiders know this and are already establishing market positions to sell out at a profit, while the rest of the investment world runs scared from the bankruptcy filings...

truebeliever
09-17-2005, 10:39 PM
From what you've posted, there is a scam afoot. Exactly what, is hard to tell.

If the U.S is to be plunged into a total Police State then a Nationalization of the transport system is not out of the question.

Saturnino
09-18-2005, 07:35 PM
CNN said yesterday that 50% of the seats in the air industry in the US are in the hands of Chapter 11 companies (bankrupt). I guess a nice loan from the government would be reason enough for them to help with laws about total control of passengers and an end to privacy.

Minuteman
09-19-2005, 06:55 AM
Me thinks TB is right in this. Just this morning on the local Illuminati channel was a piece about DNA testing. Yes, folks for the small price of 3 to 4 hundred dollars you too can have your own customized diet to loose weigh based on 19 characteristics of your DNA. Way cool huh? A way for them to increase the database and have the victims pay for it too!
Oh a lighter note my daughter bought a horse last week. This event in my life seems to have significant karmic implications in many ways. First off horses are not very common in our suburban setting, space, land, and the wherewithall for my daughter to have a horse would be like me winning the lottery. But guess what?
This horse has pale blue eyes so here we go with the phrase "Behold a pale horse". God, like I need another dam project.

freeman
09-19-2005, 08:22 AM
Well, the Peak Oil scam isn't over yet -- the mere threat of more hurricanes in the Gulf has driven oil prices up again. That horse might be a better investment than you know, Minuteman. I hope you invested in a buggy, too.
This AP article about the non-reaction of Boeing to seeing two of its best customers heading into bankruptcy leads me to believe that something global may be in the works for the airline industry...will America lose yet another major industry to outsourcing?

Why airline bankruptcies mean little to Boeing (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/9392143/)

SEATTLE - In most industries, news that two of your customers are seeking bankruptcy protection would be chilling, if not downright jarring.

But when you’re aerospace giant Boeing Co., and the customers are stalwart U.S. airlines, a week like the last one, while not exactly something to shrug off, is also far from a reason to panic.

Delta Air Lines Inc. and Northwest Airlines Corp. are the latest major U.S. airlines to head to bankruptcy court, hampered by high labor and fuel costs that make it tough to compete with more nimble discount carriers.

Both airlines are Boeing customers: Delta has 55 airplanes on order, and Northwest is set to be the first U.S. carrier to put the company’s new 787 airplane into service. But analysts say neither airline is key to Boeing’s most important growth plans, which center on winning customers in growth markets such as India, China and other countries that are fast developing a flying middle class.

“In the past, it would’ve been much more important, but as the roster of customers becomes more and more international, what happens here becomes comparatively less important,” said analyst J.B. Groh with D.A. Davidson.

Of course it’s never good news when a customer heads to bankruptcy court. But analyst Howard Rubel with Jefferies & Co. said another reason Boeing isn’t terribly affected is because worldwide demand for airplanes is continuing to improve.

“The ultimate customer is the flying public, and as long as you have more demand for seats than you do supply of seats, then the production of jetliners is going to go up,” Rubel said.

Delta Air Lines has not placed a Boeing order since 2000; the planes that are still to be delivered are left over from orders placed five years ago or more. Northwest had not ordered a Boeing plane in nearly four years before agreeing to buy 18 of the new 787s in May.

Other U.S. carriers that were once Boeing’s most prized customers also have fallen from prominence in recent years. United Airlines, whose parent UAL Corp. has been operating in bankruptcy since 2002, hasn’t placed a new order since 1999.

In their place are promising overseas carriers and U.S. discounters. Southwest Airlines, one of the few U.S. carriers to weather the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, economic downturn and high fuel costs without major problems, remains a reliable customer for 737s, the only airplane the carrier flies. And when Boeing launched its new 787, it was with an initial order from Japan’s All Nippon Airways.

Boeing said it expects no immediate economic impact from the two bankruptcies. Spokesman Nicolaas Groeneveld-Meijer said the company has not heard from either airline that they plan to cancel any orders.

That’s partly because there’s no immediate time crunch. Northwest isn’t expected to get its first 787s until 2008, he said, and the airline and Boeing discussed the possibility of bankruptcy when they made the deal.

The jet maker also has already been working with Delta to reschedule orders in the face of that airline’s financial hardships, Groeneveld-Meijer said. Its airplanes are currently scheduled to be delivered through 2010.

But even if either airline does cancel orders, Groeneveld-Meijer said Boeing can easily fill any open slots with another customer who is farther down on the waiting list, and eager to get planes into service more quickly.

“Boeing is having a very good year regardless of that,” he said, adding: “It obviously would be extremely helpful if the U.S. carriers were in better health.”

Of course, Boeing isn’t delivering any airplanes right now — the Chicago company’s Seattle-based commercial jet plants are shuttered because its Machinists are on strike over issues including pension increases and health care costs.

Boeing spokesman Charles Bickers said the bankruptcies serve as a reminder that the company must keep labor and other costs down in order to provide a good deal for increasingly tight-fisted airlines, and beat competitors such as Airbus SAS.

“It clearly underlines how important it is for us to provide airplanes that deliver exceptional value,” he said.

Connie Kelliher, spokeswoman for Machinists District Lodge 751 responded by noting Boeing’s 2004 earnings.

“They are competitive; $1.87 billion after-tax profits is pretty competitive,” she said.

Saturnino
09-19-2005, 09:13 AM
Since I have some few shares of Embraer stock, I can't say I am sad that Boeing is getting screwed. Much less if I think about their involvement in the arms industry.
Embraer will be launching new jets for 100 passengers, very nice ones. All the regional carriers (Continental Express, etc.) in the US fly them. They will probably be successful because of their size...there is more capacity with the big Boeings than is needed now.

freeman
09-19-2005, 09:37 AM
They will probably be successful because of their size...there is more capacity with the big Boeings than is needed now.

I know...wonder why they keep getting bigger and less fuel-effficient in the face of this Peak Oil crisis, which if we believe the propaganda, was known by industry insiders since at least 1970?

igwt
09-19-2005, 02:33 PM
freeman wrote:
They will probably be successful because of their size...there is more capacity with the big Boeings than is needed now.

I know...wonder why they keep getting bigger and less fuel-effficient in the face of this Peak Oil crisis, which if we believe the propaganda, was known by industry insiders since at least 1970?

Not to mention the Airbus A380 with a capacity of 555 passengers.

Airliners Net Link (http://www.airliners.net/info/stats.main?id=29)

http://www.airliners.net/photos/small/4/6/0/812064.jpg

Draken
09-19-2005, 03:16 PM
Check out Ellar's thread: <a href="http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?viewmode=flat&topic_id=678&forum=17">US Gov't Funded Bank Backs China's Boeing Commitment</a>.

09-19-2005, 05:53 PM
Just got back from a US Airway's flight. Had to sit on the runaway before departure, oh, for about an hour and a half. Was forced to board 45 minutes before take-off.

Pilot referenced the problem due to the crats in Washington. Seems they had to clear the skies for miles as BUSH was in the air on his way to New Orleans.

US CUSTOMS is now under Homeland Security, right? Two digit fingerprints and digital picture required.

One bag searched before placing them on the belt. Another bag searched after going through the machine. Husband frisked. I was picked out of the line for a purse search.

US Airways is up and running but can't afford pretzels for their passengers. Merging with AmericaWest.

Are they crumbling one by one in an effort to put them under regulation again by the Feds?

Oh, the joys of flying.

Just thought I'd share.

Marsali
09-19-2005, 06:12 PM
You were fingerprinted and had your picture taken going thru customs? Wow, things have gotten pretty bad. I went thru a pat-down search at London's Heathrow 3 years ago, which is now quite common.
How much worse can it get?

nomad
09-19-2005, 08:22 PM
Marsali wrote:
You were fingerprinted and had your picture taken going thru customs? Wow, things have gotten pretty bad. I went thru a pat-down search at London's Heathrow 3 years ago, which is now quite common.
How much worse can it get?


Marsali I read somewhere that at the airports

they can xray you with cancer causing rays that

only shows up years later so you will pay the

medical mafia any sum of money so they can cure

you.

09-19-2005, 08:29 PM
Delta filed for bankruptcy and another?

I heard HOOTERS as an airline!!

09-19-2005, 08:35 PM
No, I wasn't fingerprinted, but the machine was right there on the counter and the notification was posted on the sign that informed passengers that US CUSTOMS was part of Homeland Security.

If they would have requested fingerprints, I was prepared to oppose to see what the outcome would have been.

Most probably conditioning us first, before it becomes standard procedure.

When my purse was being searched, the woman and I started talking about the bag of food I had with me and how meals are no longer served, pretzels are not available.

This is the information she gave me:

www.usair3000.com.

cheap fares and food.

Who the hell are they?

Oh, and while waiting on the plane for hours, three women and myself started having a "good time." Talking about Bush, the Hurricane and the "no food" available on US Airways any longer. We were becomming loud, laughing, etc. A man, two rows in front of me, turned around and told us to be quiet.

We became louder.

09-19-2005, 08:36 PM
Last time I was on a flight to Texas, we were delayed on the runaway as well.

Maybe Bush was on his way to Crawford to dig up worms on the ranch.

Shannow
09-20-2005, 02:03 AM
blech, last time I went through an airports, I had my jacket, belt, and shoes off, and they were still concerned about the zipper in my jeans(wish I'd "packed" like Harry Shearer in "Spinal Tap").

Not that they'd picked on me, the poor old lady next to me standing partly clothed in the airport was explaining the process of hip replacement to the "courteous" security staff.

Unfortunately my sister has Spina Bifida, and had the MOST distressing time recently, with very felt up pat downs (the metal detectors are somehow attracted to her Harrington's rod operation). When the security person got to her leg bag of urine, and got all uppity, she was half inclined to say "don't touch that, it might go off)...I don't think that she'll air travel again.

freeman
09-20-2005, 05:12 AM
LOL, Shannow. So much for the "friendly skies".
Getting back to the original topic of the thread, I was discussing this with a friend last night, and another thought occurred as to why some insiders might be continuing to invest in bankrupt airline stocks.
Now we all know that the only thing preventing the airlies from being currently profitable is the exponentially rising cost of fuel. What if the elites have secretly available an alternative technology in terms of fuel or propulsion design that will overcome this limitation? And they are waiting for the opportune moment to implement it, maybe after all of the sheeple sink most of their investment capital into fossil fuel energy and energy futures? What would happen if a new development suddenly sends oil plummeting from $100/barrel to back under $20?
This would give them the double whammy of being able to get in on the ground floor of the new technology while crashing the existing energy and financial markets, widening the gap ever further between them and us.
Far-fetched I know, but it is just the kind of shell game that they like to play...get everyone looking under the wrong shell while they make off with the pea and the table stakes.

Marsali
09-20-2005, 10:20 AM
You may be onto something here. Though I wonder if many people will be investing much capitol in fossil fuel energy in the forseeable future, but the investemnt in the airlines is really strange.

In the city that I live in, there was a highly-efficient, well designed electric trolley system that went all over the city, up until the 1930's, when oil companies put pressure on the city to have these trolleys replaced by gas-guzzling buses, which are still in use today. The city would like to go back to an all-electric system, but it's too expensive to implement now. Probably this scenario played out in other cities as well.

freeman
09-20-2005, 10:35 AM
TB, I live in an old railroad town, just across from a seldom-used right of way that used to provide streetcar transportation as well as freight deliveries in and out of the major city just thirty miles south of me.
For the past five years I have been playing a cat and mouse game with the crooked elitist Mason who owns the property next to mine. I have learned that his scheme (in which he is enjoined by some other unscrupulous institutional investors) involves reopening the right of way and establishing some sort of commuter service in and out of the city. In the past two or three years he has accelerated the pressure, and my property taxes have been conveniently tampered with and increased to ludicrous levels. After reducing them once on appeal, I barely outsmarted the Masonic lawyer I employed when he attempted to doublecross me. (If I weren't a "conspiracy nut", I wouldn't have known what to do.)
The plan is to grab all of the available frontage in this town and develop it, using the commuter service as a selling point -- and a damned good one now that $100/gallon oil makes the SUV/shopping mall economy an endangered species.
...So how long ago did these characters know about about the Peak Oil scam and from whom? :-?

Marsali
09-20-2005, 12:55 PM
I've been reading a recently published book called The Long Emergency by James Howard Kunstler. The author is a huge supporter of the peak oil theory, and he describes the various alternatives to fossil fuels that could be used in a post-fossil fuel economy. His personal alternative of choice is nuclear power.

Toward the end of the book he describes how we might deal with the transportation issue in the event of a fossil fuel shortage, which relates to what you said about the railroad line in your town.
The author writes: ..."An obvious answer to the decline of the car-and-highway system would be to revive the American railroad network - once the envy of the world, now a worldclass embarrassment." "If we made the choice to rebuild the U.S. railroad system, in an austere economy the infrastucure would be much less onerous to maintainthan our vast highway system. The trains could be powered with electricity produced by nuclear power plants."

Perhaps this guy is sincere, or maybe he knows something that we don't.

thokhanCep
09-20-2005, 01:10 PM
I woke up this morning
yeah and the world is still the same
only now it is getting more interesting ... I like it.


More and more people are waking up to the lies .. which have been force fed to us for ever , it seems.

Well i am glad all this is shaping up.

Although it means those with power will try and turn the tides by turning each of us on eachother.
Divide and conquer is king ... and it keeps kings playing their stupid games.

But I have a dream ....
http://byronw.www1host.com/

a good alternative energy site

How about we all start our own political party
sign ourselves into office
get things done for a change

I live in Canukistan A K A canada franchise of the UK who are controlled by 13 bloodlines who think they have the divine rite to rule.

Bull shit

My party lines would include 2 major aspects
( I might get cocky and call it the NEW WORLD ORDER .. I like reverse propaganda )
FREEDOM reigns supreme
FREE ENERGY - Fuel cells / solar panels
would immediately go onto every government building .. no matter how big or small
That way when the guv becomes corrupt like we have all seen ... at least they are not leeches off the actual working public.

Money saved could go into a recycling program where the lower income houses would be the next buildings to get "free energy". All the costs of manufacturing would drop significantly due to the evolution of technology.

Lower income would have its well deserved leg up for a change. Middle class could experience tax breaks because of the shifting economy , and therefore invest in thier own - lower priced - technology , the rich .. well they should be helping everybody do that yesterday .. so they can do as they please.

If any one has a defeatist attitude about this post .. please come up with a better solution as your witty comments need not apply and you will be cast in a counter productive light.

May god bless everyone's soul even the devils amongst you ... because even they are just victims of ideologies A K A brain washed.

This has been a thokhan neutron bomb

exciting times we live in .. its make or break for humanity as we know it

freeman
09-20-2005, 01:18 PM
Good link, thokhan.
As someone with some experience in the automotive field, I have seen most of this hidden technology before, and some more besides.
In fact, when you get outside of the automotive field, the suppression of energy-related technology becomes even more egregious.
I think one of the challenges that lies ahead for those of us opposed to the globalists is to try to make this technology available at a cost basis to as many people as possible via the underground. There is no way nor any need to attempt to patent, incorporate and play into the hands of the corrupt corporatocracy. The underground pressure of a movement like this would eventually be too great for them to exterminate, like killing fleas with a sledgehammer.
My positive contribution for the day. :-)

Draken
09-20-2005, 01:25 PM
Yeah, something equivalent to open source in programming. Maybe nomad's miracle kid with his free energy device could be something.

freeman
09-30-2005, 12:18 PM
A Republican pro-Bush acquaintance of mine with high level Masonic connections has been harping for months about this impending crisis of avian flu with an almost fiendish glee.
In a recent message he commented as follows:

Both (Sen. Reid and Sen. Frist on ABC Nightline) estimated the death rate to be maybe 10% of the quarter of the world's population estimated to catch it. I assume they think the mortality rate will fall as the flu spreads to large communities, as it often does, because now, it is 50 to 70%. Koppel said six billion people live in the world. How will we get vacine to all of them? We won't. There may not be enough for more than half of the US. So far, scientists don't even know which if any strain will mutate to easily infect us.
Another expert said the world will become like New Orleans for awhile. The economy as we know it will shut down for the duration. It will be every country, town and home for itself. A major concern will be finding food and burying the dead.
Imagine the implications...Cities might empty. Oil prices would fall.

...Is this the longterm strategy behind hoarding bankrupt airline stocks? :-o

truebeliever
09-30-2005, 09:22 PM
...So how long ago did these characters know about about the Peak Oil scam and from whom?

IMHO...(i only just worked out what this meant!)

Since the late 60's.

They basically planned what we have today once they realised the full power of computers and how they could collate and manage data...including the "cashless" society which is central to their plans for control.

Fletcher Prouty writes about this.

An efficient public transport system is a MUST! Not because it is SO efficient (though it is in many ways) but because you can more easily control peoples movements. Central to the management of a possible insurgency and backlash to NWO plans is to control peoples movements. Whether it be road blocks, check points etc...

Here in Perth, West Oz, they are implementing a card system which is linked into a GPS transponder on the bus or train. This is supposedly "purely" for "consumer convienence", as it more efficiently keeps track of fares and prevents free rides...lower costs etc...

But what is the main speil they are giving to the public? They are focussing on schools and parent groups claiming EXCLUSIVELY that they will be able to keep track of their kids in real time over the net!

I asked specifically if it would be compulsory to "register" the card? Not now was the reply. So yes, it is going to eventually be linked to the Australian National I.D card with smart card technology if not COMPLETELY integrated over time.

Their is "peace" coming soon. Within 2 years. Things will probably happen fairly quickly. It may not be so bad.

They want to control the means of "living". That means food, water and the means of getting from point A to point B. If you want to escape their net then simply regain control over these nessessities.

So yes, i think things will unfold rapidly and some sort of peace descend, for the moment.

What you have posted is quite telling FREEMAN. This is where joining the dots is fun using mainstream sources. If you know how to look you can have a stab at whats coming. China is ROARING ahead with MASSIVE car manufacturing plants. I take it they dont watch the nightly news and have missed the last few weeks?

freeman
09-30-2005, 09:55 PM
I've had the same thoughts about public transportation being imposed upon the masses, but with the computerization of individual autos, I have to question whether the potential for control is that much less either way...

China is ROARING ahead with MASSIVE car manufacturing plants. I take it they dont watch the nightly news and have missed the last few weeks?

I know...yet as you say, from our vantage point it appears as though the avian flu is targeted for them. A blatant incongruity, and past experience has told me this is an important clue...
On one hand, American and European car production is largely grinding to a halt. Yet the high end elitist auto manufacturers have been rescued and some are now even swallowing up the proletariat model lines...like Porsche bailing out VW in the German government's reorganization plan...or Daimler sucking up Chrysler. What does this tell us?
Is peak oil a short term strategy? Makes some sense. If they drag it out too long, the underground could come up with energy alternatives that eventually threaten to go mainstream, and they might lose control of the sheeple through limiting natural resources.
Damned curious, though. No one seems to be bailing out of bankrupt airlines or luxury gas-guzzling autos...

truebeliever
10-10-2005, 09:38 PM
A billion here, a billion there...

By Jim Smith, Editor, Jane's Transport Finance

"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real money!" according to a quote ascribed to the late US Senator Everett Dirksen.

James C May, president and chief executive officer of the Air Transport Association of America (ATA), the principal trade group representing US airlines, has called for the US government to grant a one-year holiday from the 4.3 cents per gallon jet fuel tax.

At the federal level, US airlines pay 4.4 cents for every gallon consumed on a domestic flight. Of that amount, 4.3 cents goes to the Airport and Airway Trust Fund, while 0.1 cents supports the Leaking Underground Storage Tank Fund.

US Senate Finance Committee Chairman Charles Grassley has thrown a wet blanket on the idea of a tax holiday for US carriers.

"I wonder to what extent a four-cent reduction is going to help airlines that are all going to go into bankruptcy anyway," Grassley told reporters outside the Senate. "Maybe you might as well let the bankruptcy court sort it out."

The ATA's May estimates that US carriers, which are expected to lose USD10 billion this year, will spend USD30.6 billion for roughly 452 million barrels of jet fuel in 2005. At 42 gallons per barrel, the rollback of 4.3 cents per barrel would pare about USD814 million from the aggregate fuel bill for US carriers.

Not a lot of savings percentage-wise to be realised from the tax holiday. But any port in a storm.

http://www.janes.com/transport/news/jtf/jtf050923_1_n.shtml

10-10-2005, 09:43 PM
WOW!! Right before your eyes, but only those who aren't asleep at the wheel get it.

So, if a majority of the airlines file for bankruptcy, DELTA recently has done so, wouldn't this be an incentive for the government to place the carriers back under their arm?

and

with high fuel prices, if this occurs then I wouldn't doubt that our air travel begins to be restricted.

freeman
10-10-2005, 09:57 PM
Yes, Grassley's slip of the tongue is very telling.
The inside plan is for the airlines to go bankrupt. It is a done deal.
Yet none of the government elite seem worried about the future of the nation's ariline industry.
This leads to two logical conclusions, IMO:
1)The airline industry has already been divied up to the oligarchs, possibly under the mantra of nationalization. Airline deregulation was just another short-lived scheme to exacerbate the failures we are now witnessing and make the carriers ripe for picking.
2) Peak oil is a scam, otherwise there would be a plan to provide relief for the airlines' fuel costs right now.

rushdoony
10-10-2005, 11:03 PM
Re Airlines,

Say you have a healthy public company
with 1,000,000,000 shares outstanding
and trading at $60 per share, giving it
a market capitalisation of $60,000,000,000.

Now the banksters deliberately hatch a plan
to create a future cash flow crises so they can
scoop the company.

Load the company up with unbearable debt,
say $20,000,000,000 that can't be reasonably
serviced from existing cash flow. You create
a cash flow crisis and the stock tanks to
$.50 per share, giving a market capitalisation
of $500,000,000 followed by Chapter 11 bankruptcy filing,
and temporarily suspended from trading stock.

Now the investment banksters and their lawyers convert the debt to
shares at the price of $.50 per share,
and immediately thereafter consolidate the shares
100 old shares for 1 newco share. On the first day of trading
you will have a stock with 410,000,000 shares outstanding,
97% owned by banksters, trading at $50 per share,
giving a market capitalisation of $20,500,000,000.
Because the company has no debt, it'll probably
trade at $75 per share on first new day of trading,
giving a market capitalisation of 30,750,000,000.

The fractional reserve banksters didn't even
have to use all their own money, they just created
most of it out of thin air.

Now they own the majority of the company,
its assets, and a healthy balance sheet.
The plan worked for the banksters. Poor suckers
those original public shareholders, some who bought
at $60 per share and now get one newco share for each
100 old shares.

Now this is a greatly simplified example that could
have 101 twists to it, but you should
get the general idea. The stock was crashed on purpose for an agenda.