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Bernard of Clairveaux
05-06-2011, 06:10 PM
The 1958 Takeover of the Catholic Church

There was coup d'etat in the Catholic Church on October 26th, 1958 and the Church has been governed by imposters since that time.

Is this really that important? In my opinion it is. The Catholic Church is the largest and oldest institution on earth with roughly a billion nominal members, roughly 3 times the population of the United States.

Since 1958 however, despite the numbers, the institution has been largely ineffective in combating the social ills they had so effectively handled for centuries. Abortion, pornography, divorce, obscenity all became prominent after the papal chair was usurped in 1958.

To demonstrate the power of the Church before this, look at the time when Pius XII excommunicated President Peron of Argentina in 1955 when he tried to contradict the constitution and allow divorce.

As a result of the excommunication, the populace of Argentina rose up and Peron was removed from office and Catholic teaching was upheld. Who would have thought that 50 years later Argentina would be legalizing “gay marriage.”

Also, for those familiar with Catholicism you may know that the original Mass, which can be traced back to the 4th century (but could very well be apostolic in origin), was abandoned in 1969 to make way for a "new mass," A ceremony that bears little resemblance to the traditional Mass. Again, who would want to destroy the sacred rite but an enemy agent masquerading as Pope.

Part 8 The Destruction of the Mass YouTube - Papal Imposters 8/12 The Destruction of the Mass

To find out why the “Catholic” Church of today has become a sick caricature of the Catholic Church of two millennia we have to look back to the papal conclave of 1958. I believe the documentary posted below will provide the key to understanding what has happened.

At the center of the film is the election of the conservative prelate, Cardinal Giuseppe Siri, in 1958. What you will see in this section is a very clear emission of white smoke from the Sistine Chapel 2 days before the election of John XXIII. On this night 200,000 people turned to the balcony to see the new pope emerge on the balcony while news reports went out around the world that a new pope had been elected.

Vatican radio later announced that the white smoke was a mistake and that no Pope had been elected. In this section you will also hear the testimony of an FBI Consultant that claims there are FBI and State Department files which state that on this night Cardinal Siri was elected Pope and took the name Gregory XVII. In addition, former papal advisor Father Malachi Martin gives his testimony that Cardinal Siri was elected and was put under duress in at least 2 if not 3 conclaves. This is the centerpiece of the film (part 4) which is about 10 minutes YouTube - The election of Cardinal Siri in 1958

Looking at one incident, however, does not give one the perspective they need to see that the church has been hijacked. The very clear signal that a pope had been elected 2 days before John XXIII emerged on the balcony is very suspicious, but in itself does not provide enough reason to believe that the Chair of Peter was stolen. To arrive at a clear conclusion on this, one must take several things into account.

Historical Precedents

The papacy does get usurped. In the history of the Catholic Church the papacy has been usurped more than 40 times, which is easily verifiable by getting a list of anti-popes. In the movie we highlight the case of Innocent II who was elected pope and then forced to flee by an imposter pope, Anacletus II. Anacletus II ruled for 8 years until his death, upon which, Innocent ascended to the papal throne many years late. Anacletus and all the clergy ordained by him were then condemned at the second Lateran Council.

The Men Who Took Over

The men who took office instead of Cardinal Siri, namely John XXIII ( Angelo Roncalli) and Paul VI (Giovanni Montini) we’re more just bad apples.

JOHN XXIII

John XXIII’s Masonic initiation is described in detail in Pier Carpi’s book the “The Prophecies of John XXIII” and there is a vast amount of evidence and testimony that he was indeed a Mason. For this alone he would be ipso facto excommunicated and obviously ineligible for the Papacy. Upon his election, he immediately made Montini (future Paul VI) a Cardinal and called the Second Vatican Council, two of the most disastrous decisions in the history of the Catholic Church.

He also received Nikita Khrushchev’s son-in-law and daughter at the Vatican in a private meeting, this is after communist regimes around the world murdered and imprisoned millions of Catholics. The well publicized meeting earned an extra million votes for the communist party in Italy in the national elections. John XXIII also began introducing changes to the Mass, changes that would culminate in the complete destruction of the Tridentine Latin Mass under Paul VI.

Part 5 Who was John XXIII? YouTube - Papal Imposters 5/12 Who was John XXIII?

Paul VI

Paul VI, who never spent so much as a day a parish priest before becoming Pope, enjoyed reading books by Oscar Wilde during his seminary days. This wouldn’t seem so bad if it weren’t for the multiple public accusations of sodomy against him that emerged during and after his pontificate. If this wasn’t bad enough, ex-member of the Vatican noble guard, Franco Bellegrandi recounts in his book Nikita Roncalli that Pius XII conducted a secret investigation and found out that Montini, then secretary of state, was providing names of priests operating behind the iron curtain to the Soviet secret police. The priests were then shot or sent to the gulag.

Part 7 Who was Paul VI? YouTube - Papal imposters 7/12 Who was Pope Paul VI?

Indeed these two men were not simply “bad popes,” nor did they become pope and then lose their faith. They were enemy agents who set the Church on a carefully designed plan to destruction.
Once the treachery of these two men has been established, the 3 week period between the death of Pius XII (a true pope) and the so-called election of John XXIII (an imposter) become crucial. Did anything significant happen between these two dates? Yes, there was a five minute signal indicating a pope had been elected billowing out of the Sistine Chapel two days before John XXIII emerged on the balcony in St. Peter’s Square. Was the true pope elected on this night, and was he Cardinal Siri? I’ll point to three sources that say this is exactly what happened.

Paul L. Williams

FBI informant Paul Williams in his book The Vatican Exposed quotes State department files that state Cardinal Giuseppe Siri was elected and took the name Gregory XVII on Sunday October 26th but the French Cardinal annulled the results .

Fr. Malachi Martin

Fr. Malachi Martin in an interview in the late nineties says that Siri got enough votes to become Pope but refused the office because he thought they would not let him live.

Fr. Charles-Roux

Father Charles-Roux claims that Joseph Cardinal Siri of Genoa had been elected and also accepted the Papal office, but a very serious threat was delivered by the dean of the College of Cardinals (Cardinal Tisserant) and that Siri was immediately shoved aside, without actually abdicating.

Here we have three individuals claiming that Cardinal Siri was elected and was subject to some kind of threat. This along with Cardinal Siri’s indirect admissions (twice) that he was elected pope make a very good case that the person who was elected when the white smoke emerged on October 26th, 1958, was Cardinal Giuseppe Siri of Genoa.

Furthermore there is a great deal of evidence that Cardinal Roncalli and the whole 1958 affair was planned by unholy forces, which is described in Part 3 of the film.

Part III The Chosen Candidate YouTube - Papal Imposters 3/12 The Chosen Candidate

Those who have trouble believing that Cardinal Siri was elected seem to want an admission from the forces of darkness who captured the papacy and a detailed explanation of how they did it. Others expect that Siri would come out and claim that he was pope, when obviously nobody would believe it, even if he did manage to get the word out before being eliminated.

Lastly, the film will give some basic instructions on how to find traditional churches, priests, catechisms, etc and give a word or two on activism.

Part XII The Underground Church YouTube - Papal Imposters 12/12 The Underground Church

The film is otherwise broken down into 12 parts, the subject matter of each part described in the title.

Part 1 Historical Precedents YouTube - Papal Imposters 1/12 Historical Precedents
Part 2 October 1958 YouTube - Papal Imposters 2/12 October 1958
Part 3 The Chosen Candidate YouTube - Papal Imposters 3/12 The Chosen Candidate
Part 4 The 1958 Conclave YouTube - Papal Imposters 4/12 The 1958 Conclave
Part 5 Who was John XXIII? YouTube - Papal Imposters 5/12 Who was John XXIII?
Part 6 The 1963 Conclave YouTube - Papal Imposters 6/12 The 1963 Conclave
Part 7 Who was Paul VI? YouTube - Papal imposters 7/12 Who was Pope Paul VI?
Part 8 The Destruiction of the Mass YouTube - Papal Imposters 8/12 The Destruction of the Mass
Part 9 Year of Two Conclaves YouTube - Papal Imposters 9/12 1978: Year of Two Conclaves
Part 10 Cardinal Siri Confronted YouTube - Papal Imposters 10/12 Siri Confronted
Part 11 Conclusion YouTube - Papal Imposters 11/12 Conclusion
Part 12 The UndergroundChurch YouTube - Papal Imposters 12/12 The Underground Church

BlueAngel
05-06-2011, 09:15 PM
Excerpt:

"Since 1958 however, despite the numbers, the institution has been largely ineffective in combating the social ills they had so effectively handled for centuries. Abortion, pornography, divorce, obscenity all became prominent after the papal chair was usurped in 1958."

===================================

Please inform us how the Catholic Church, before it was usurped in 1958, had effectively handled abortion, pornography, divorce, obscenity, etc.

The Catholic Church can't even effectively handle their pedophile priests who have had their hands all over the little BOYS who were and are church members before and after 1958!

Clairveaux
05-07-2011, 06:38 AM
Before 1958, the number of perverted priests was about on par with any other profession, teachers, social workers, policemen, etc

To answer you're question though.
Abortion, when did abortion become legal in the united states, early 70s?
It was well after 1958, I can tell you that much. To this day catholic hospitals do not perform abortion, and most of the pro-life groups are Catholic.

Porn? That's easy, look up the Legion of Decency. No movie theater in the US would dare play a movie that wasn't approved by The Legion of Decency.

Divorce was illegal in Argentina and 1954 President Peron tried to allow it, he was excommunicted by Pius Xii which led to a popular uprising, and Peron's ouster.

There are a few examples.

judasfeast
05-20-2011, 04:50 PM
interesting documentary even though I dislike religion, especially so the catholic church. Religion stunts spiritual growth and is akin to fluoride in our drinking water - a pollutant. People are entitled to have whatever beliefs they desire, but those of us who are outside the boundaries of religion have to deal with their unnecessary interferences. Religion and politics as Osho once stated are the Mafia of the Soul, ironically this fits the documentary perfectly!

Clairveaux
05-21-2011, 09:51 AM
Thanks for watching Osho. If you take anything away from the film I hope it is the realization that the people running the Catholic Church are not Catholic. Nor will people get the true teaching of the Church if they approach a priest or enter a Catholic Church.

Now, I know you said you don't like the Catholic Church, and i understand there were bad individuals in positions of power in the church, but there Catholic teachings remained the same pretty much from the apostles until 1958.

BTW I did read a book by Osho back in the day, finding the bull, or controlling the bull or something like that. Another book that I read was "The Handbook to Higher Consciousness" by Ken Keys Jr. Out of all the books on religion and spirituality that I read before returning the Catholic Church that was the best one.

I don't know if you have kids or not, but that was the big turning point for me. The books above a had a lot of appeal when I was a single man but when it came to marriage, children and family I needed something more concrete with fixed rules, absolute morality, etc.

judasfeast
05-22-2011, 01:26 PM
I enjoyed watching the documentary and learnt more about those pesky Freemasons - boy they get everywhere!
I rebelled against orthodox religion from eleven years of age,at school I gave our religious education teachers a rough ride! When I was eighteen I became a born again christian due to negative circumstances but after eighteen months knew I had to get out. I found it suffocating and limiting, and then as I learnt more about the foundations of christianity I found myself questioning everything. The virgin birth and the resurrection were two aspects I found unpalatable, and to be honest the more I learnt the more I decided that christianity was more based on myth than fact.
I have read more about religion in the past few years which confirmed my decision to stay far away from ALL orthodox religions. They are based on control and fear and not based on love and truth.
Yes I have children but thankfully they are repulsed by religion, and this is not influenced by my views, thankfully they have a mind of their own and have made the decision without my influence!
I have a spiritual philosophy which is an integral part of my life, and it serves me well, and I pick up further insights as I progress along my life's path through experiences and also through the books I read.

Clairveaux
05-22-2011, 09:35 PM
Well it's nice to have a civil exchange with someone who has a different belief system. I'll agree that it is very difficult to accept the resurection and the the virgin birth coming from a materialist standpoint (I'm not saying your a materialist). For me it wasn't until I began to pray that I felt a supernatural influnece in my life, I'm sure you've heard the song amazing grace, well I didn't understand what grace was until I experienced it. I didn't truly believe these things for a long time but didn't want to reject the faith of my ancestors, I often found myself asking for confirmation, wanting to believe but unconvinced. About 6 years ago after reciting the Rosary 3 or 4 times I began to undergo a genuine conversion. This is just my story, it's all I can say.

judasfeast
05-23-2011, 02:20 PM
Well it's nice to have a civil exchange with someone who has a different belief system. I'll agree that it is very difficult to accept the resurection and the the virgin birth coming from a materialist standpoint (I'm not saying your a materialist). For me it wasn't until I began to pray that I felt a supernatural influnece in my life, I'm sure you've heard the song amazing grace, well I didn't understand what grace was until I experienced it. I didn't truly believe these things for a long time but didn't want to reject the faith of my ancestors, I often found myself asking for confirmation, wanting to believe but unconvinced. About 6 years ago after reciting the Rosary 3 or 4 times I began to undergo a genuine conversion. This is just my story, it's all I can say.

We all need to believe in something! Even atheists believe in something! It costs nothing to be civil and engage in a well mannered debate, so please know that I will respect your beliefs.
On the subject of miraculous happenings, I believe such things happen as I have experienced a miracle myself when I was cured of cancer by a wonderful healer. I have also witnessed things which normal physical laws do not apply!
Onto the gospels of the new testament, and they are riddled with that many contradictions that it is difficult to believe them. A little time spent studying the gospels will reveal the many contradictions within. Their are also question marks about the true authorship of the letters written by Paul.
As for the virgin birth, well Jesus isn't the only candidate! Buddha and Krishna qualify too!
I believe all religions are used by the powers that be to control the masses, and to cause divisions between people. Maybe in the beginning their was an element of truth in these religions but as time has progressed religion has been watered down, and is now a tool of mind control.
I am not a materialist and never have been, I've always followed a spiritual path. I believe in a Divine Source, and in reincarnation.
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, is what I live by.

BlueAngel
05-23-2011, 08:30 PM
Before 1958, the number of perverted priests was about on par with any other profession, teachers, social workers, policemen, etc

To answer you're question though.
Abortion, when did abortion become legal in the united states, early 70s?
It was well after 1958, I can tell you that much. To this day catholic hospitals do not perform abortion, and most of the pro-life groups are Catholic.

Porn? That's easy, look up the Legion of Decency. No movie theater in the US would dare play a movie that wasn't approved by The Legion of Decency.

Divorce was illegal in Argentina and 1954 President Peron tried to allow it, he was excommunicted by Pius Xii which led to a popular uprising, and Peron's ouster.

There are a few examples.

Dude!

You didn't answer my question.

You said that before 1958 when the Catholic Church was usurped, they effectively handled abortion, divorce, pornography, etc.

I asked you how they did this?

Your comment didn't answer my question.

The following is what you wrote:

Excerpt:

"Since 1958 however, despite the numbers, the institution has been largely ineffective in combating the social ills they had so effectively handled for centuries. Abortion, pornography, divorce, obscenity all became prominent after the papal chair was usurped in 1958."

===================================

Do you see that what you have written doesn't make any sense nor does your comment to the question I posed to you?

I'll ask you again.

How is it that the Catholic Church, before 1958 when it was usurped effectively handled abortion, pornography, divorce, etc.?

Clairveaux
05-24-2011, 08:55 AM
Divorce: Until 1958 divorce was illegal in most Catholic countries. President Peron of Argentina tried to allow divorce and was excommunicated by Pius XII, a popular uprising followed and Peron was removesd from office.

Pornography: The Legion of decency was a Catholic organization that approved or disapproved of movies, no theatre would dare play movies not approved by this group as the theatre would be boycotted. This result was that many beautiful movies were produced, Ben Hur, the Sound of mUSIC, A Man for all Seasons, etc

Abortion: Abortion was Illegal until 1973 (roe vs Wade) In Catholic countries like Ireland it is still illegal, Catholic hospitals do not perform abortions, most of the pro-life groups today are Catholic. In 1958, it would have been unthinkable that abortion would be legalized, but what did we hear from the imposter Paul VI when abortion was legalized in America? Absolutely nothing!

Compare that with the actions of his predecessor 20years earlier with the legalization of divorce in Argentina.

Hope this answers your question.

BlueAngel
05-25-2011, 07:01 PM
Divorce: Until 1958 divorce was illegal in most Catholic countries. President Peron of Argentina tried to allow divorce and was excommunicated by Pius XII, a popular uprising followed and Peron was removesd from office.

Pornography: The Legion of decency was a Catholic organization that approved or disapproved of movies, no theatre would dare play movies not approved by this group as the theatre would be boycotted. This result was that many beautiful movies were produced, Ben Hur, the Sound of mUSIC, A Man for all Seasons, etc

Abortion: Abortion was Illegal until 1973 (roe vs Wade) In Catholic countries like Ireland it is still illegal, Catholic hospitals do not perform abortions, most of the pro-life groups today are Catholic. In 1958, it would have been unthinkable that abortion would be legalized, but what did we hear from the imposter Paul VI when abortion was legalized in America? Absolutely nothing!

Compare that with the actions of his predecessor 20years earlier with the legalization of divorce in Argentina.

Hope this answers your question.

Sorry, but I don't believe, as you do, that the Catholic Church had much influence in controlling abortion, pornography and/or divorce in the past and/or present as you do.

Medically, safe and sound abortions were not even developed during the time period in which you say the Catholic Church was controlling them and divorce, as far as I know it, has never been illegal; only within the Catholic Church, as you say so and I'll take your word for it even though you haven't provided any evidence.

Sounds completely ridiculous to me; your statement that the Catholic Church approved or disapproved pornographic movies.

judasfeast
05-26-2011, 05:36 AM
In countries where the Catholic church have a strong presence it does, or used to, have a frighteningly iron grip on peoples lives. I remember my grandmother being almost robotic in her application of Catholic morals, but this was back in the 1970's and the Catholic stranglehold has diminished since then. But their are still people who apply its teachings today, but in lesser numbers. The Catholic church is not, nor has it ever been, a healthy beast.

Clairveaux
05-26-2011, 01:51 PM
I saw the same things with my grandmother, aunts, etc, but they were not devoted to the Church only out of fear. I agree that they did run those countries like tyrants at times but to reject everything they stood for is also wrong.

Here is just the first page of a 3 page 1980 Time article about the Legion of Decency.

The Catholic film office and its ratings Review are no more
It is Christmas Eve 1962. Faint echoes of Silent Night twinkle through the frosty air. As Father Patrick J. Sullivan of the Roman Catholic film office recalls the scene, he is off in a small New Jersey parish hearing confessions. Suddenly he is summoned for an urgent phone call. Gregory Peck is on the line, wanting to know why on earth the church has rated his forthcoming film To Kill a Mockingbird unsuitable for teenagers. The priest explains that the ending seems to justify the sin of lying, even though it is in a good cause. As Sullivan remembers it, before Mockingbird is released, the final scene is altered slightly. The church gives the film an "adults and adolescents" rating and, later, an award.
That is how things went during the three decades when Catholicism's Legion of Decency (later the Catholic film office) exercised vast moral sway over U.S. film making—in league with Hollywood's own self-censoring agency, the Production Code Administration (P.C.A.). The church's ultimate weapon was an ungentlemanly C (for condemned) rating, a box-office kiss of death partly because U.S. Catholics used to take a public pledge at Mass, once a year, to boycott movies that were designated trash.
In the system in use till 1958, films were labeled A-l (suitable for general patronage) or A-2 (morally unobjectionable for adults); shady flicks got a B (objectionable in part for all). Thus armed, the Legion had leverage both before production and during final editing. For instance, an epilogue was added to the film version of Tea and Sympathy so the kind schoolmaster's wife (Deborah Kerr), who helped the troubled schoolboy learn about love, could allude to the guilt she felt afterward. Not till 1953 did a major studio make a profit on a movie with the scarlet letter C: that film was Otto Preminger's saucy The Moon Is Blue.
Last week the U.S. Catholic Church closed down its film office. It also ceased publication of the biweekly film Review, which since 1935 had carried unsigned critiques, as well as ratings, on 16,251 feature films. The official reason for the shutdown is financial, but the office clearly fell victim to changes in the law, public morality, the movie business and the church itself.
In the freewheeling Hollywood of the early 1930s, two Catholics wrote a moral code for the industry. It forbade not only overt sex and brutality but sympathy for any evildoers and even the very word "damn" (Gone With the Wind got a special P.C.A. dispensation). As the film industry created the P.C.A., the church created the National Legion of Decency. Soon it was hard to tell where one ended and the other began. The major studios owned some 70% of first-run theaters and refused to distribute any film that did not have P.C.A. approval. Over the next 33 years the P.C.A. gave its seal to only five movies the church had rated C. Films like the superpure Miracle on 34th Street got a B simply because a major character was divorced and unrepentant. The whole system was possible, remarks President Gordon Stulberg of Polygram Pictures, because in those years "there was still a kind of national morality."

Read more: Religion: A Scrupulous Monitor Closes Shop - TIME (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,954577,00.html#ixzz1NUA79xVj)

judasfeast
05-26-2011, 06:33 PM
Fear plays a big part in religion! You see how vile organised religion is? People devote their lives to their "chosen" religion through fear. Religion is a manufactured conveyer belt of torture, and in my opinion all religions should be banished!
As for decency in films, I agree that a large percentage of what is made for cinema and television is overdosed with violence and porn. which is far from healthy.
I do not have a television because I saw the damage that it was doing, and the look of surprise people give me when I tell them I don't have a TV is priceless.

Clairveaux
05-26-2011, 10:44 PM
"I do not have a television because I saw the damage that it was doing, and the look of surprise people give me when I tell them I don't have a TV is priceless."

Right, you've figured out, but most people can't figure it out, they don't have the brains or they don't have the will. I don't think it's their fault. These people need a moral authority. Better they sit reciting the Rosary than sit staring into the flickering blue screen being programmed to buy useless junk they can't afford.

BlueAngel
05-27-2011, 01:16 AM
In countries where the Catholic church have a strong presence it does, or used to, have a frighteningly iron grip on peoples lives. I remember my grandmother being almost robotic in her application of Catholic morals, but this was back in the 1970's and the Catholic stranglehold has diminished since then. But their are still people who apply its teachings today, but in lesser numbers. The Catholic church is not, nor has it ever been, a healthy beast.

Yeah, well, it's been a long time since the Catholic Church has had an iron grip on people's lives.

So, I suggest you get with the present.

The Catholic Church is ridden with pedophile priests.

BlueAngel
05-27-2011, 01:18 AM
"I do not have a television because I saw the damage that it was doing, and the look of surprise people give me when I tell them I don't have a TV is priceless."

Right, you've figured out, but most people can't figure it out, they don't have the brains or they don't have the will. I don't think it's their fault. These people need a moral authority. Better they sit reciting the Rosary than sit staring into the flickering blue screen being programmed to buy useless junk they can't afford.

Sorry, dude, but most people don't sit around reciting the Rosary.

Yeah, and you're so much better than the rest of us!

BlueAngel
05-27-2011, 01:22 AM
Fear plays a big part in religion! You see how vile organised religion is? People devote their lives to their "chosen" religion through fear. Religion is a manufactured conveyer belt of torture, and in my opinion all religions should be banished!
As for decency in films, I agree that a large percentage of what is made for cinema and television is overdosed with violence and porn. which is far from healthy.
I do not have a television because I saw the damage that it was doing, and the look of surprise people give me when I tell them I don't have a TV is priceless.

FYI, cinema and television are not overdosed with pornography.

I have come to the conclusion that you do not know the definition of pornography.

BlueAngel
05-27-2011, 01:24 AM
Sorry, but I don't believe, as you do, that the Catholic Church had much influence in controlling abortion, pornography and/or divorce in the past and/or present as you do.

Medically, safe and sound abortions were not even developed during the time period in which you say the Catholic Church was controlling them and divorce, as far as I know it, has never been illegal; only within the Catholic Church, as you say so and I'll take your word for it even though you haven't provided any evidence.

Sounds completely ridiculous to me; your statement that the Catholic Church approved or disapproved pornographic movies.

Care to reply Clairveaux?

Clairveaux
05-27-2011, 06:59 AM
Your absolutely correct, there was no porn and no abortions prior to 1958. At least not any significant amount. I think this can be attributed this to the influence of the the Catholic Church.

judasfeast
05-27-2011, 08:29 AM
FYI, cinema and television are not overdosed with pornography.

I have come to the conclusion that you do not know the definition of pornography.

BA you are either blind or stupid, or indeed both! Television and cinema are both plagued with porn, mostly of the soft porn variety; but porn nonetheless. I have had this conversation with other people and most agree that their is too much violence and porn on the TV or in the cinema. Another example of soft porn is the music scene, watch any Britney, Rhianna or Madonna video and witness half dressed women in seductive poses/dance routines. Soft porn is what it is and its becoming more acceptable which is obvious by your comments.

I know what I am talking about BA, obviously you don't!

BlueAngel
05-28-2011, 07:03 PM
Your absolutely correct, there was no porn and no abortions prior to 1958. At least not any significant amount. I think this can be attributed this to the influence of the the Catholic Church.

Oh, please.

You sound as if your brain is scrambled regarding this matter.

judasfeast
05-28-2011, 10:20 PM
"I do not have a television because I saw the damage that it was doing, and the look of surprise people give me when I tell them I don't have a TV is priceless."

Right, you've figured out, but most people can't figure it out, they don't have the brains or they don't have the will. I don't think it's their fault. These people need a moral authority. Better they sit reciting the Rosary than sit staring into the flickering blue screen being programmed to buy useless junk they can't afford.

People have their own moral compass, its their choice. A moral authority is not needed, its just another form of dictatorship. The Catholic church itself is plagued by priests who sexually abuse children, so the moral authority is argument is flawed! Also reciting the rosary is also useless!

religion is not the answer.

judasfeast
05-28-2011, 10:30 PM
Yeah, well, it's been a long time since the Catholic Church has had an iron grip on people's lives.

So, I suggest you get with the present.

The Catholic Church is ridden with pedophile priests.

in answer to your first two points:-

today the catholic church does have an iron grip on many people's lives, its not difficult to find examples of this. BA, I am "with the present", your the one lagging behind!

in answer to your final point:-

agreed.

BlueAngel
05-29-2011, 11:59 PM
in answer to your first two points:-

today the catholic church does have an iron grip on many people's lives, its not difficult to find examples of this. BA, I am "with the present", your the one lagging behind!

in answer to your final point:-

agreed.

There are many people who are Catholics, but to say that the church has an iron grip on their lives is inaccurate.

Maybe in the past, but not in the present.

Therefore, it is you who is lagging behind.

BlueAngel
05-30-2011, 12:05 AM
People have their own moral compass, its their choice. A moral authority is not needed, its just another form of dictatorship. The Catholic church itself is plagued by priests who sexually abuse children, so the moral authority is argument is flawed! Also reciting the rosary is also useless!

religion is not the answer.

Like it!

However, many people are incapable of following their own moral compass so they look to religion, which, as you say, within the Catholic Church is flawed NOT ONLY BECAUSE IT IS RIDDEN WITH PEDOPHILE PRIESTS; THAT'S JUST ONE REASON AND, BTW, I COULDN'T CARE ANY LESS WHAT THE POPE HAS TO SAY.

BlueAngel
05-30-2011, 12:12 AM
Your absolutely correct, there was no porn and no abortions prior to 1958. At least not any significant amount. I think this can be attributed this to the influence of the the Catholic Church.

Dude, I never said that pornography and/or abortions did not exist before 1958.

You're misquoting me and have been banned.