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12-04-2004, 07:07 AM
Ok folks, here we go. First off I'm talking about Christianity because that is what I am or at least that is where I was baptised. I'm starting to study the Quran as well, but I understand the Bible so that is what I'll talk about.

The prophetic stories of the Bible are just that, Prophesy. Now imagine if Rulers could just switch a few words, names, places, etc.. Imagine the control over peoples minds that they could exert. I think this is reality and most of us here realize that.

There is no historical proof of the Exodus. There is no historical proof that the Jews were ever enslaved for 400 years. National Geographic has said that the Pyramids were not built by slaves.

The Bible talks about Adam being the first man and he came about 6000 years ago. But why does it say, Gen. 1:26 "let us make man in our image," Who do you think us was? And the pyramids were being built around this time! Those pyramids required a very intelligent people.

Christians pray to Jesus, that my thinking friends is idol worship. One of the Commandments says "Thou shall have no other gods before me." Hmmm.
Jesus of 2000 years ago is a dead prophet. Yes he was a prophet, and he is worthy of praise but praying to him is no different than praying to Bush. And to say that he was born to the virgin Mary is physically impossible, not to mention that this would mean that God commited adultery.

Christians believe that the Jews are the Chosen people of God. Check out John 8:42-48 Some quotes, "if God were your father, ye would love me", "ye are of your father the devil," It doesnt sound like Jesus thought much of the Jews back then! I wonder what has changed since then?

The Christians supposedly follow the turn the other cheek stuff: Luke 6:26-29 "Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you" ???? What kind of a righteous God would say that? What better thing for The Powers that Be, the Devils, to teach the Sheeple.

Come on folks WAKE UP!

Daniel
12-04-2004, 07:20 AM
Hey Folks, just wanted you all to know that I (Daniel) wrote the above piece on Christianity. This was the second time I wrote this article. Couple of days ago I wrote something very similar and after I hit the submit button, I was thrown off, and told I coudn't submit anything. I wrote to the administrator and asked what happened to my post. He didn't know and hadn't seen it. I assumed I hit the cancel post or something? Today, I printed my post first and very carefully hit the submit button and Boom I was thrown off again, this time I was able to hit the back button and after a couple of more submit tries the same thing I was thrown off. So I hit the post anonymously button and was able to submit the above.

Lets just assume THEY are watching all of this!

Ana
12-04-2004, 08:08 AM
I've had the same problem Daniel, I spent ages typing a post, previewed then clicked the submit button and it was lost.

I must use the copy/paste more often!

falcon
12-04-2004, 09:31 AM
Daniel you said:
but I understand the Bible so that is what I'll talk about.
That is where you are wrong. After reading your post Daniel I must say that you are Biblically illiterate. You do NOT understand the Bible nor its basic precepts (Trinity, Jesus). I know I am sounding harsh but even Jesus used tough love. I would like to address your topics however they vary greatly so I am having trouble finding a starting point. Perhaps if you provide me one (a topic that has troubled you the most) I can provide answers, and if I cannot then I can definitely give you some excellent resources.

Daniel
12-04-2004, 09:52 AM
Bird of Prey,

Think what you want, obviously, but where can you prove me wrong?

zanyzan311
12-04-2004, 12:11 PM
Daniel your opinions show that you have thought about these things quite a bit. However, i believe that your "christian instruction" was done poorly. You do not have a great grasp on scripture. Furthermore, i can look through he bible and select key verses which will back up my opinion. Thats not hard to do. When making an arguement from scripture it is important to use multiple verses and see the whole scope of the bible. As for your arguement regarding national geographic, don't you think they are controlled by the same people which we are discussing here on this forum. Obviously, they would have an agenda. Why else would christianity constantly be under attack these days? If our "leaders" knew it was false why would they let people constantly try to disprove it? Wouldnt they just let us live in our ignorance? If they had planned to use it to make us sheep, why is it such a danger to them? As for praying to Jesus- I do not- but falcon aptly observed your lack of understanding of the Trinity. Also, christians believe the Jews WERE the chosen people. If they believe they still are they are being misled. The Jews broke their covenant with God and so he gave Jesus to the world so that whoever would follow Him would become one of the "chosen". As far as turning the other cheek, youre just giving your opinion on what you think "righteous" means. It is far easier to to hit someone back than to restain yourself. That is righteous. As for the physical impossibility of a virgin conceiving, there can be no proof of that. Faith is something that asks you to accept things which you cannot understand. This is one of those things. And God did not commit aldultery, LOL. Thats to assume there was intercourse involved. A comment which does not even deserve another. If you would like me to quote piles upon piles of verses to back up what i say i will. But its taking me long enough to write as it is. And do not believe the science of man. Not that man hasnt discovered useful things. But, scientists are in the business of proving themselves right at any cost, even if they have to disregard other findings which disprove theirs. Not only that, but the powers that be have a great interest in getting man to believe in the power of man. That is pride. Satans sin. and he wants us to be just like him. But one who has looked into conspiracy theories should know all that.

Daniel
12-04-2004, 02:19 PM
Mr or Mrs. Zany,

Oh Lord where shall I begin?

Yes any body can provide verses out of the Bible to nitpick their point. Why don't you? You said you will, please do, I challenge you to prove me wrong.

"Christianity is constantly under attack these days". Gee I wonder why. I wonder why this Christian nation is despised the world over, how could that be?

"If our leaders knew it was false why would they let people constantly disprove it". Well Thanks to the internet they can't really stop the heresy any longer. The powers that be, will try but their time is up.

Whoever follows Jesus is Chosen? Wow! I guess that means W is one of the chosen.

Faith is not to be understood? If I don't understand it why should I have faith in it. I'll never be so naive to have faith in something I don't understand.

"Do not believe the science of man" ??? ha ha ha

Yes it is harder to not hit back. I'll agree it would usually be better not to hit someone back after they hit you. But in general principle that is foolish. Are you going to tell me that if They enslave me than I should pray for them and then offer them my son. Or if they rape my wife I should offer them my daughter. You go ahead, I prefer something like an Eye for an Eye.

They have a "great interest in getting man to believe in the power of man". That is a great example of opposite speech. No Zany, they have been trying to suppress the power of man. For if we believed in our own power than we would't be in the toilet today.

55132
12-04-2004, 03:06 PM
Daniel is exposing the muslim apologetics, I think he is a muslim trying to preach.

If he where a muslim having 2nd thoughts of his faith he would get killed by his muslim clergy or brothers. If it where a Christian saying that about Muslims in Muslim country he would also be murdered.

So feel free to be openly say what you want nobody here is going to kill you for it.

This is due mostly to the Christian heritage of our the western society.

Say more, all you whant


55132

Daniel
12-04-2004, 03:35 PM
Numbers,

Is that all you can do is slap a label on me? Go ahead label me a Heretic, Mason, Muslim, Christian, Whatever you want. What an intelligent thoughtful person you must be.

sablefish
12-04-2004, 05:17 PM
Daniel.. I like what you are saying.. Keep up the good works .. You are challenging us sheeple to rethink our attitudes.. Good for you.

falcon
12-04-2004, 09:42 PM
Hey Daniel like I said I need structure. It isn't really about proving you wrong b/c I couldn't really find a starting point. If you are willing to supply one I would be more than happy to discuss it with you.

55132
12-04-2004, 10:41 PM
Daniel I have not intentionaly labeled you anything. I responded to your statements because I have heard them before.

The fact is I was very much like you. But I came to a point where I could not continue to question that bible having never read it. All it did was become an endless circle of thoughts that never got me anywhere.

Yes i was raised in christianity and heard a lot about the bible and about christians but as many, i was bored by it. Later I tried to learn about the book but i was using other books by other thinkers.

It was not until I read the bible, the whole 66 books that I got an understanding and believe me when I tell you it is not like it is portrayed by the powers that be.

It is a very human story, very profound and full of teachings.

No I don't go to church nor do I preach but the words contained in that book are very powerfull and after 15 years I still feel its power and its liberating relief. Now I know why many don't like it. And the reasons are far different than anything you can imagine. I can see what is happening in the world and why, most of all I know what is going to happen. And much much more.

I encourge you to read it then make your decision but don't talk about something you don't no about.

All those question you have can be answered just by reading the whole book.

If after doing this you choose your own way, fine that is your decision and good luck.


cheers

55132

Daniel
12-05-2004, 09:49 AM
Check this out

Christian Killers?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance25.html

55132
12-05-2004, 12:44 PM
Still you quote sources that are apart from the bible. Read the bible start with the new testament than we can talk.

About this articel:

First I might say that i don't like what is happening in Irak it is a sham with ulterior purposes. But the American people don't understand that if you screw someone you have given him the right to screw you back and that is what the muslims are doing. I would fight any Muslim trying to destroy my culture Thats why i respect there patriots.

Yes the majority of the US soldiers are from a christianic culture and many of them are probably devout Christians. But they are not fighting as Christian they are fighing as soldiers. The US is no longer a christian nation it is a secular one.

If I where in the army i would refuse to fight this war because i could not fight for this cause.

We are all living in a lie, a world that does not exist. the bible can clear our eyes and our hearts. It wont make you a zealot it will make you Free. Free from religion both humanist, luceferic/iluminist, pagan, and even christianistics forms which is not the same as Christian.



Read this excerpt from www.savethemales.ca

CONCLUSION: THE GOLDEN AGE OF FRAUD


The lives (and deaths) of many millions are based on a hoax of one kind or another. Our political and cultural leaders are chosen and overpaid for perpetuating these lies. World Trade Center Seven was demolished on Sept. 11 by its owner and no mainstream media investigates why. History professors, journalists, novelists, politicians, law enforcement all take part in the pathetic charade called the West.

Since the so-called "Enlightenment" Western civilization has lost its moorings. It has exchanged belief in spiritual and moral absolutes for Judeo Masonic solipsism and deception. (See my "How University Betrays Students") We have traded allegiance to our Creator's design for the worship of Mammon.

While the masses feed on spiritual junk food, wealthy Satanists secretly plot mankind's future. Wars ensure that enemies of World Government destroy each other. In Iraq, US national power is exhausted and discredited and while religious people are annihilated. Money is made.

Fellow Turkeys. Welcome to the New World Order. It isn't new at all.

See also my "Rothschild Conducts Red Symphony"


Once agin if you are sincere in your search star reading the book which you claim is lying.


My you find the way

55132

JillyBean
12-06-2004, 05:14 AM
Check this out
Christian Killers?
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance25.html


Good article. It is true not all that call themselves Christian are actually believers. Heck most dont even know what the Bible says and its how they fall for those TV celebrity preachers and any other false prophet.

Ozziecynic
12-06-2004, 06:05 AM
:idea: I challenge the notion that the U.S or the History of Europe has ever been judeo christian at all.
I think in all sincerity it is judeo masonic here are some links to prove my point.

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/judeochr.htm#Judeo-Christian

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/temple.htm

or as Henry has himself covered

http://www.savethemales.ca/000447.html



:idea:

789
12-06-2004, 07:19 AM
Isn't Judeo-Christian an oxy-moron ?
A 'Judeo' is still waiting for a Messiah
A 'Christian' already had his Messiah

Anyway, what is so Christian or civilized about 1700 years of blood and gore, and penury and misery and slavery ?

In the Bible we may read that after entering into the promised land, Joshua (according to the instructions he received from Moses, who in turn received them from Yahweh) divided the land among the families. A portion to each family without charge, without morgage, rent, tax, to have and to hold and to live off.

Was there ever a Christian who advocated the following of this Biblical example ?

Was there ever a Christian who advocated the keeping of the Sabbath-year ?
The children of Jacob/Israel were shipped out to exile for whoredom and for not giving the land its due rest. If the Sabbath-year is that big a deal, perhaps it should at least be discussed.

Judeo-Christian civilization sounds good on paper, but in practice it is no different from the pagan civilization that existed before the day of Pentecost.

55132
12-06-2004, 10:07 AM
I's not my pupose to defend Christiandom because I separte it from Chritianism; but i would like to give a more accurate perspective on it.

First the concept of judeo-christian is a very broad one. When this term is used in its correct sense its usually talking about moral codes.

Funny if you read the old testament you find God trying to correct his people but every time they would do the contrary, no matter how many miracles or feats God made for them they would soon forget. This shows the state of the human condition.

The fact is that judaism has been trying to destroy christianism since its inception into the world because it pushed the powers that be in jesrusalem (the pharesees) out of the picture and exposed them for what they really where, a threat both to the jews and to the world. You can say that the historty of the west has been a struggle between these two.

Most of us those born under the influence of television and film have to be very carefull that our world view and notions of history (and for the that matter anything else) are in fact based on historical truths and not on the thousands of images and sound bytes that have penetrated our senses during our liftime.

Almost all we see and here in the media is fiction and is usually made to entertain and/or influence.

So its my opinion that we must forget any notion we consider a fact that was born out of television film or radio. This is also true of contemporary publishing.

Contemporary historians have developed a new way to interpret history that in fact is reinterpreting history to fit their world view.

They are using contemporay standards and personal belifs to understand things that happend in the past.

We must understand that we are living in and era called "The Age of deconstruccion" which put in simple words means to The questioning rationality.

The last 2 thousand years of western history cannot be separated from Christianity not the good nor the bad but we must also separate the notion of The Gospel from institutions like churches and governnment.

Most of the struggles in Europe has been for
control; between the forces of light and the forces of darkenss; and at different times either one was on top.

What was Europe? Europe was a conglomarate of pagan nations that where united by a force called Rome. When christianity came in it did much to change many of the negative things that existed but was also influenced by these very pagans.

But what was the impact on these pagans from Christianity?

1) High regard for human life

2) Worldwide impact on moral values…civilizing the uncivilized

3) Impact on health and medicine…hospital construction

4) Contribution toward freedom for all and civil liberties

5) Contributions to the poor and needy in our world

6) Impact on science

7) Impact on economics

8) Establishment of sexual values and family formation

9) Contribution to education and the formation of schools and universities

10) Impact on arts and music

11) Representative government the separation of political powers

12) The codifying and writing of languages

13) Elevated value for the common person

14) Elevated value of women

15) Millions of changed lives from societal liabilities to assets

If it not had been for Chrtianity Europe and western civilization would today look like a mixture of China and Iran. It would be an inhumane legalistic society.


Sadly the west is turning away from its historical notions and if we survive we will see our children living in such a world. Don't be a conspiritor against our historical values.

So even if Europe has not lived up to the full Christian way it has greatly benifited from it and so has the world. But you cannot blame the Gospel or the foundations of Christianty.

I urge all of you to read the bible it will make you free, its not about what you have been told.
Start with the new testament you will read things you never thought.

55132

madkhao
12-07-2004, 08:54 AM
55132 this is addressed to you or anyone else who is well knowledged of what Islam is. I know nothing of this religion and have a few questions.
1) Is Muhammed the same person as Moses?
2) What is the timeframe of his supposed ascension? (BC; AD)
I think that is all I want to know. You see, everytime I hear/see the word Quaran I think of the rebellious tribe of Korah. Just want to know if it's a possibility.

55132
12-07-2004, 09:26 AM
Muhamed is not the same as Moses. His followers claim he ascended to heaven from the rock of the dome in Jerusalem during his timeperiod in the 7 century.

But what many people don't know is that he took the the main god of his pagan tribe called alah (the moon god) and claimed it as the only god.

The rituals with which everyone associates islam, ( the 5 pilars) where all part of his tribes rituals to there pagan gods including alah.

He tried to convince the christian church about his message but was cast as a heretic, so in reality islam is a christian heresy.

Why do you think that the moon is a aymbol of Islam.


55132

evergreen
12-07-2004, 10:09 AM
Daniel I agree with yourview on christianity , I dont need it to have a moral point of view, going with the laws of nature and common sense is fine for me. I dont try to hurt other people and when i do something wrong or stupid i blame myself not satan. My brother who reads the bible says there is a verse where jesus tells the apostles not to bring the word to the gentile nations because they will ruin it . Does anybody know about this.

55132
12-07-2004, 10:23 AM
Your brother is wrong, Jesus expresly says the opposite, to go out into the world and preach what his word. It says that he came first to the jews and then to the rest of the world. The whole new testament is about going to the nations taking the word to all.

Pleas read the book before you condem it


55132

evergreen
12-07-2004, 01:25 PM
55132 Here it is matthew 10,5 These twelve jesus sent out with the following instructions, Do not take the road to gentile lands, and do not enter any Samaritan town; but go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. How did you miss it you sound like a bible scholar. YOUR WRONG PLEASE READ THE BOOK BEFORE YOU CONDEM ME CHRISTIAN.

Daniel
12-07-2004, 01:42 PM
Numbers,

Your quite full of yourself aren't you.

billiard
12-07-2004, 01:52 PM
this is a sounding board for "what I think" ? great - I've been looking for a place to vent for quite awhile .

billiard
12-07-2004, 02:09 PM
evergreen

does it also say "and ye shall be my witnesses to jerusalem , and judea , and samaria , and to the uttermost parts of the earth ."(acts 1.8)you can't take a verse out and say "this is what the bible says"if you don't have a good knowledge of the WHOLE book . Jesus was telling a particular group of people something for that particular point in time .

lets not get nasty in here . everyone , by their mere presence here , is most likely a seeker of truth , having been lied to our whole lives (by our beloved government).lets at least be civil in our discussions (not like some mean-spirited liberals ).

madkhao
12-07-2004, 02:15 PM
In defense of numbers and the word of God,
The disciples were following strict orders from Jesus who was following strict orders from God.
The gospel had to FIRST be preached to the Jews
Matthew 10:5-10 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not: But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give. Provide neither gold, nor silver, nor brass in your purses, Nor scrip for your journey, neither two coats, neither shoes, nor yet staves: for the workman is worthy of his meat.
When Jesus knew his death was at hand he prepared his disciples to preach to Gentiles as well.
Luke 22:35-36 And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing. Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
After his death and ressurection they were given NEW orders.
Mark 16:14-16 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen. And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

55132
12-07-2004, 02:28 PM
citing one text out of many is what get people in trouble. The bible is a narrative not a collection of pfrases.

The only way is to read it? What are you afraid of?

Read the bible it will make you free.

55132

evergreen
12-07-2004, 04:35 PM
55132 telling me im wrong about something that is in the bible and then me having to find it shows you only want to believe your tidy little story.I am reading the bible to bad if i find things in there that you wish werent.

sablefish
12-07-2004, 08:24 PM
Welcome billiard and evergreen.. you guys sound fiesty... Good on you guys.

12-08-2004, 04:32 PM
I agree. Daniel is challenging Christianity and it's well done. I was raised by a preacher, and I was 9 years old when I began to challenge it. If we hear that a virgin got pregnant from a spirit, as an adult, we should give thought to whether or not that story is symbolic of something, we shouldn't force ourselves to believe something that is so obviously against nature and tell ourselves it's faith. I'm not an athiest, I'm just into discerning the truth of a thing.

Ozziecynic
12-08-2004, 06:19 PM
:-? Re: 55132

Your response to me in this thread seems to indicate that you believe the Rule of Law, Western civilisation itself and Christianity are one in the same you are surely mistaken!.

The U.S is a Republic it has statute law.
Statute law has it origins in Natural Rights or the Rights of Man.
This rights speak can be traced back to the French philosophees like Rousseau and Volitaire also George washington and Thomas jefferson had similar enlightenment ideas.
These Natural Rights are Platonic in absolute origin they are not christian and able to be attributed to Jesus Christ at all!.

I would also like to point out that christianity like all other Religions is based on spirit and therefore faith in an all powerful eternal Metaphyscial God.
It is not based on, as rationalists of religion seem to think, on some kind of scientific proof of existence!.
There is nothing rational about faith in a spiritual being so how can christianity be Rationalised as you appear to be attempting to prove by linking law of the state with Christian law!. :-?

sablefish
12-08-2004, 06:34 PM
Let me add to this conversation.. The Dalmatian theory of Christianity.. Where in order to coerce the sheeple into fighting wars, The government approved sages only pick out certain verses of the bible to emphasize.. And the sheeple are so believing that The bible can not be changed for political purposes.. Do a google on Scofield/bible/conspiracy.. if you don't believe me.

In other words the truth of The Bible is white.. and yet the governments pick and chose which of the thousands of verses and phrases to choose from and the results are highlighted in black.. You end up with a spotted dog.

Christianity is the four gospels as far as I am concerned and living a life as a Christian involves turning the other cheek.. Even if they kill you and your family.. and everybody that you ever knew.. According to my interpretation of The Gospels.. Our job as Christians is to die at the hands of the evil ones that they might see that peace and brotherhood and truth is the answer.

As far as I am concerned the Old Testament is a bunch of phony history. Ripe with symbolism.. like Adam and Eve, and Noah's ark, a bunch of fairy tales.. From what I have seen there was no Exodus and Solomon never even had a temple.. The Old Testament as far as I am concerned is the reason for a land grab.. of another peoples country.. And who wrote the Old Testament giving them the land of another people? Was it God or was it greed.

The message of Christ is in the four Gospels.. The rest of the Bible is of little interest to me as it has been retranslated to the destruction of The Christ's Message.

55132
12-08-2004, 07:26 PM
Sablefish,

I can agree with you that the Gospels are the most important books for us but i would not discount the other books because there is a lot of usefull information and profecy involved that are critical to all of us.

The origin of the Pharasees who are the ones behind masonry and the iluminati is exposed there.

to understand the plight of man you must read the old testament. Its the story of God reaching out to humanity and humanity not understanding.


55132

evergreen
12-08-2004, 08:24 PM
Going over it here after I asked if jesus said not to bring the word to the gentiles 55132 told me to read the bible before I condemn it. And billiard said jesus was telling a particular group of people for that particular time.
Why did jesus tell the apostles at that particular time not to go to the gentiles, and why did he change his mind?

55132
12-08-2004, 08:47 PM
There is no issue. it was not the moment to go to the gentiles. if you go to the last chapters of the same book he say's "go unto the world and teach this message.

Don't rely on what others tell you read for your self.

55132

nohope187
12-09-2004, 07:23 PM
Yeah, you tell em' 55132. READ IT FOR YOURSELF AND WHATEVER YOU GET OUT OF IT IS JUST THAT. :-P

sablefish
12-09-2004, 07:46 PM
I read the old Testament long ago .. It seemed like a bunch of stories.. Where there was a big mean God.. and a bunch of dudes who had a bunch of wives and married children and killed a bunch of people..

Perhaps the God of the Old Testament is different than the God of the New Testament... Perhaps the Jews have a different God than the Christians and Muslims Do...

I suspect that the God of the Old Testament is a hateful mean God.. I don't like that God. I like the God of love, faith, and truth.

I have free will.. I get to chose my own God... So there!... Go ahead and yell.

Born_To_Die
12-22-2004, 06:34 AM
Quote
----------------------------------
I read the old Testament long ago
----------------------------------

The problem with this kind of statement is

that once you understand the "old testament"

or read it in the original language you

will realize VERY quickly that you can NEVER

finish reading ... so what you thought you

read was not correct to begin with.

eddie
12-23-2004, 04:53 AM
hi,eddie here new to the club.
i don't have a problem with the bible.but it has to be a kjv.most bibles are bend for a reason.
don't listen to a minister and don't go to a church.no one goes to heaven.
regarding gentiles:there are ,according to an old and a new dictionary two different meanings
old=none jewish and none christian
new =none jewish
now why is that?
do you know who the israelites are?
what a hebrew is?
what a jew is and when it first appears in your bible.
what a judean is and who judas iscariot is
to me it is very clear that the jews are not gods chosen people.then why is it, that there are 157 denominations in the usa, that al say that they are?hope i got my info correct on that.
if it is still a 50/50 debate the denominations should be 50/50 as well.
if you read the works of wesley swift on the true church of israel website it might explain a few things.
how many of the apostles were jewish?
there were people on earth already.were did cain go and who invented communism.how many christians are there in russia?
btw,do you know who fatima was.
bfn :-)

Ozziecynic
12-26-2004, 04:03 AM
The Christians supposedly follow the turn the other cheek stuff: Luke 6:26-29 "Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you" ???? What kind of a righteous God would say that? What better thing for The Powers that Be, the Devils, to teach the Sheeple.

:-? If you are not a christian then what basis do you have for not being happy with the NWO what other ISMS or religions do you believe will rescue you from it! :-?

Daniel
12-26-2004, 05:57 AM
A religion of Truth, Justice and Righteousness.

It is only a Christian mind that would assume you have to be a Christian to be opposed to the NWO.

sablefish
12-26-2004, 06:19 AM
Daniel.. I've missed your being around for the last few days. To that question: absolutely not. Anybody that cares about humanity or even their own well being , should be very concerned about the NWO. I suspect Satan is the very head of the conspiracy, I believe he is of an alien mentality (very cruel), So if you value, humanity you should be very concerned. I may sound like I'm wearing a tinfoil hat, but that is what I think we are up against.

Daniel
12-26-2004, 09:19 AM
Sablefish,

I'm not sure what your trying to say, but let me clarify myself a little.

First off I shouldn't have said "only a Christian" would assume you must be that to oppose the NWO.

We should't fear the NWO, they are losing and will lose in the long run. But, Thank God it won't be long now. I feel it is our generation that is watching the end of these devils.

Truth and Justice will prevail as some of you are becoming aware of. Ignore the bozos that are rampant across our society and on this site, they will only frustrate us. By that frustration and rage they bring us down to their level.

Be careful out there folks, tomorrow may bring a new level of Hell on earth, not that this country doesn't deserve it but some of us will need to survive to bring a new world of Peace and Justice to this world. A new world where Truth rules.

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 09:24 AM
Daniel... God Bless you bruv... pass it on

peace is coming - keep your eyes on the prize through the hard times

XXX

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 04:05 PM
This is perhaps my very reason for, possibly, re-considering membership in this forum.

Unless I can find the ignore mode here, I originally saw used in the forum when I joined.

I don't mind respectfully co-existing along side unashamed anti-Christian sentiment, but having to see it in almost every third thread, and more than anything the blatant blindness and obnoxious, ignorant words that come with the statements, well that's quite another story.

I'm a real Christian.

A real Christian will believe on the deity of Jesus Christ.

He will not be, and is not, an "idol", for them, or a false "god", prayed to and paid homage to by men.

If it were completely true that proponents of the "new world order" were sincerely interested in the facts or right-mindedness about such things,
they would be willing to do a personal "fearless-moral-inventory" and ask themselves the unsettling questions.

I have seen comments here seeking to withdraw the fact and relevance of the deity of Jesus Christ.
I have also seen some members here drone on and on about "Christians" in their local or nearby regions, ascribing such words and prejudiced comments as "Nazi's" about them (the Christians). This is really deeply devoid of, not only sensitivity, but true thought.

Comments like these belie the truth of the pernicous programming the folks here wax prosaic about daily.

The greatly forgotten fact here is both the talk of the "new world order" and statements about the Luciferians/Satanists who run it, are only direct ideas and words from our Bible.

The simple truth that not everyone who is aware of such parties and individuals, "the new world order", is completely limited in their knowledge on them, and that they may have some accurate insights, does not remove their guilt and error in their wickedly, and ignorantly, ascribing bad and negative things to Christians.

Someone suggested that it is "Christian" to think "only Christians" understand about the "new world order".

I say, you are completely shortchanging, not only Christians, but yourself, to continue to feed into the dangerous and terribly skewed mindset, which knocks Christians.

I have seen it here. I have seen at least one person, who seems to wish to appear well-meaning, drone on and on, ad-nauseum, about "Christians" this and "Christians" that, all the while blah-blahing about "love""peace" and "light".

What stinky pablum! What poop!

This confused soul may as well be a new-age person for all their seeming passion and intent on getting these "bad guys".They are brainwashed by them themselves, regarding Christians, and don't even know it!

I promise you all your theories, thoughts and well wishes, without a personal (spiritual) examination of the person of Jesus Christ,and Christians, will get you precious little as time goes on in these things. And in strength and clarity, insight.

You may portend to be "against" these "guys", but the more you drone on about criticizing Christians, the more you whine on obnoxiously about "love & light and peace", while knocking down the hearts, and characters, and/or lifestyles of Christians, the more you make it very plain how very FAR you are from what you hope to be personal and corporate effectiveness in your "empassioned" quest for good, verses evil.

And I can assure you, you will NEVER EVER be free of the very blindness you carry, unless you start to listen TO the Christians, Christ, and the very mechinations of your own mind/heart.


P.S. I saw the ignore feature when I joined here. If I cannot find it, I cannot keep coming here, I think.

To me its use would be a saving grace, when feeling somewhat bombarded, (here) by the brainwashed-prejudiced-whining that drones on in anti-Christian setiment.

Only Christ can fight the anti-Christ, both in life and in your own heart.

Anything less or different, is really empowered nothingness in the end.

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 04:35 PM
As for "Daniel"

as a true Christian, I can say, he does not sound like any Christian I have ever met, and I've met perhaps, hundreds of thousands, in my almost 20 years as a Christian.

I see the huge bulk of his comments about "God" and "Jesus Christ" as nothing but dung and garbage, and lies.

I am not trying to be harsh. When one is misleading you, either purposefully or by sheer pride and ignorace, they ought to be told.

Now he has been told.

If you want to know the TRUTH about Christians and Jesus Christ, talk to Him and read the Bible and talk to REAL and mature sincere Christians, not wanna bees, or frauds.

I can "say" I am anyone I want. I can "say" I am "Elizabeth Taylor", though it is not so.

I can assure you, you do have a real and mature Christian here. But anyone telling you they ARE, and deviating from the true Gospel and the Holy Bible, are just full of hokum and mularkey, amongst other..

As for "Judeo-Christian", Jesus was Jewish and followed the special Holy-days of the Old Testament very closely.

The Observant Jews follow the same God the Father, the God of Abraham ,Issac and Jacob. They diverge at Jesus as Messiah, though Jesus is God.

We share the same Bible with the Old Testament.

God's Word says in the end times men will have "itching ears". They will love "fables" and old-wives "tales" that bring them, in their minds, "understanding" about Him, but are all a lie.

I see this completely on this thread, and sometimes, this forum.


Itching Ears
http://www.ldolphin.org/itching.html

http://www.mcfarland.co.uk/andrew/exhortations/2001-11-04

http://www.godonthe.net/evidence/messiah.htm
http://www.myfortress.org/prophecy.html

One can most certainly be Jewish and believe on Jesus Christ as Messiah.

Paul was, so was Peter, and everyone else in the New Testament, bascially.

It is not not "Jewish", but Jewish to believe in Jesus. Suggesting it it "not" Jewish is to suggest they are exempt from thinking or knowing Him to be Messiah, and thus personally exempt from the love and grace and mercy of God. Not to mention salvation and Eternal Life.

Christ came for the Jew first and then the Gentile.

You really ought to read the Bible you talk on and don't really seem to know.
Sorry, but true..folks..

http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prophchr.html

Here are 2 good websites for the Truth, for certain, and surely for the most part.

http://www.jesus-is-lord.com

http://www.biblebelievers.com

Below, one of the best on Jesus and prophecy:

Tenakh/Hebrew/Old Testament
Prophecies
Fulfilled by
Jesus Christ, Messiah


http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/messiah.htm

I will not be debating you on this.
I have shared the Truth with you. Now talk to God for wisdom and clarity and peace. Make your own decisions with Him. :-)

Shalom

Psalm 91
1Cor.13

l.

Daniel
12-26-2004, 04:53 PM
Well Lynn,
I was baptized Christian, and then I grew up!

Did you find that ignore button? Please use it!

Your continued worship of deities other than God himself speaks volumes of your intellect. Perhaps you also believe that W Bush speaks on behalf of God or maybe you even pray to him?

As to all of my critics, none of you can prove me wrong on anything I've said regarding the Bible or Christians. Some of you have said I'm wrong, yet fail to use the bible to back yourselves up. Others just slap labels on me and consider the matter finished. Another critic simplifies his point by telling me he needs structure? Another says go and read the bible and then we can talk. Another real bozo starts talking about executions. Whatever people. Take it or leave it, obviously!

Perhaps soon I'll gather the patience to write a Christianity Part II. Anyone like to add some more points of contention?

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 05:29 PM
Oh and " Daniel's "

Christian Killers?"?!

Won't even read it. The man has me closed-out..

Slander is a sin..So is lying..

Let us strive to speak the Truth in love, and even for fairness sake.

I am sorry I tried to be patient with Daniel here. But the erroneous comments, the untruths.

It can be hard to hear and see lies about onseself and maintain kindness and composure.

Yet, the most kind thing we can do is speak the Truth in love to help the blind see.

Hope you all had a Merry Christmas

lynn

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 05:44 PM
I was baptized Christian, and then I grew up!

LOL, oh so you're a CATHOLIC now WONDER. That is NOT a CHRISTIAN (unless they have had the new birth and are sincere in their faith, everyone who knows about real Christianity knows the difference ;))

Christians don't "baptize" their babies upon birth, and only do so as a matter of symbolism and a matter of course, NOT for the SALVATION OF THEIR SOULS. ACHKKKg lol

Why, you who seek to chop UP the deity of CHRIST are no more a CHRISTIAN than your local SATANIST down the STREET. What rubbish man, you know nothing!

Did you find that ignore button? Please use it!

WHY? SO you can continue to delude and LIE to those who name themselves "sheeple"?

Your continued worship of deities other than God himself speaks volumes of your intellect. Perhaps you also believe that W Bush speaks on behalf of God or maybe you even pray to him?

Jesus Christ IS God, and His WORD says ONLY a spirit who COMES FROM GOD will confess this!
Don't fall to personal insults man. It only shows you have NO LEG to stand on. Tell me where exactly where you in the "pentagram" when you "prayed" to "god???" achk.

As to all of my critics, none of you can prove me wrong on anything I've said regarding the Bible or Christians. Some of you have said I'm wrong, yet fail to use the bible to back yourselves up. Others just slap labels on me and consider the matter finished. Another critic simplifies his point by telling me he needs structure? Another says go and read the bible and then we can talk. Another real bozo starts talking about executions. Whatever people. Take it or leave it, obviously!

Yes we CAN. Just because we don't want to WASTE our TIME and day talking to one (YOU) who seeks to undermine and discredit Christ AND Christians and THEN claim himself a "Christian" does not mean we are "WRONG".

Leave it.This guy is about Pro-Christ and Pro-"Christian" as your local coven leader..

Perhaps soon I'll gather the patience to write a Christianity Part II. Anyone like to add some more points of contention?

While you're looking for "patience" go find some DECENCY.

Why add more? You've exposed yourself. It is I who needs patience, with the likes you,liars.

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 05:57 PM
HERE is a "CONSPIRACY THEORY" for you..

How about..

everyone who comes in HERE looking to :MOCK, QUESTION, MIDJUDGE and FALSELY RIDICULE
we CHRISTIANS - IS NOT OF CHRIST OR GOD-

Well then..who could they serve?

Who is their master?

Who indeed..

I contend alright, that there are folks in these nwo who come into these VERY ROOMS to set off "flaming"and PRETDN to be "Christians".

They are no more "Christians" than I am Queen Esther. But then compared to Madonna, I may be close :-)

________________________________________
Jhn 1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all [men] through him might believe.

Jhn 3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

Isa 60:1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee.

Act 13:47 For so hath the Lord commanded us, [saying], I have set thee to be a light of the Gentiles, that thou shouldest be for salvation unto the ends of the earth.

Act 13:48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of the Lord: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed.

the children

Eph 5:8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now [are ye] light in the Lord: walk as children of light:

1Th 5:5 Ye are all the children of light, and the children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.

1Th 5:8 But let us, who are of the day, be sober, putting on the breastplate of faith and love; and for an helmet, the hope of salvation.

1Jo 2:9 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now.

1Jo 2:10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

1Jo 2:11 But he that hateth his brother is in darkness, and walketh in darkness, and knoweth not whither he goeth, because that darkness hath blinded his eyes

The extent of your dislike and prejudice towards Christians will show to some degree, the extent fo your programming, and/or lack of spirtual Knowledge on such people and things.

sablefish
12-26-2004, 06:19 PM
lynns_shadow.. Who decides who is a Christian and who is not?.. Are Christians only those of your denomination?.. There are dozens of denominations who consider themselves to be the only "true" Christians. What denomination are you?.. And who gave your denomination the right to define what a Christian is or isn't?..

There are many denominations of Christians here on this forum, as well as Jews, Muslims, Hindus, and Buddhists.. All faiths are welcomed and each one of us have an opinion, as one of the many opposed to the NWO..

I mean to say. You come here with your sexy cutout of Harlow, or Heddy Lamar.. Why didn't you use the cross of Jesus? or something like that as your moniker?

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 06:34 PM
Who decides who is a Christian and who is not?.. Are Christians only those of your denomination?.. There are dozens of denominations who consider themselves to be the only "true" Christians. What denomination are you?.. And who gave your denination the right to define what a Christian is or isn't?..


God gives true Christians discernment through His Holy Spirit.

In this case though, the man exposed himself.

God's Word says:


every spirit who doesn't confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God, and this is the spirit of the Antichrist, of whom you have heard that it comes. Now it is in the world already. WEB

and every spirit that confesseth not Jesus is not of God: and this is the 'spirit' of the antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it cometh; and now it is in the world already. ASV

And every spirit which does not say this is not from God: this is the spirit of Antichrist, of which you have had word; and it is in the world even now. BBE

and every spirit which does not confess Jesus Christ come in flesh is not of God: and this is that power of the antichrist, of which ye have heard that it comes, and now it is already in the world. DBY

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world. KJV

And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh, is not from God. And this is that spirit of antichrist, of which ye have heard that it should come; and even now already it is in the world. WBS

and that no spirit is from God which does not acknowledge this about Jesus. Such is the spirit of the anti-Christ; of whose coming you have heard, and it is already in the world. WEY

and every spirit that doth not confess Jesus Christ in the flesh having come, of God it is not; and this is that of the antichrist, which ye heard that it doth come, and now in the world it is already. YLT

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 06:55 PM
sablefish I'm sorry you seem to believe him too, or do you?:)

I am only sorry if my approach with him, and one or two others here, was not a bit more gentle than I would've preferred. For that I am sorry.

I know this is probably a trap.

But it does get wearying to be lied about, here, somewhat often, and other places, and unfairly misjduged and stereotyped.

I won't take back a darned thing though.

They (some on here) are wrong about we Christians.

If Christian boys go to war because they feel they are doing so out of honor or patriotism to help their country, how does this make them "less" Christians? It really doesn't.
Not anymore than a Jew is "less" Jewish or anyone of any faith.

You don't know enough real Christians and Christian families, maybe in a superficial, cold distant way, to truly understand them OR the Word of God OR Jesus for that matter.

I shared with you how to find out. Talk to Him and read the Holy Bible while asking Him to show you.

Have they so effected the light of your understanding to be so prejudiced and discriminatory where you all are? Apparently ,yes!


“Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes, nor figs from thistles, are they? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit; but the bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. So then, you will know them by their fruits.” Matthew 7:15-18, 20 (NASB)


Please, do yourself a favor and read these prayerfully.

I need to go spend time with my FAMILY, rather than too much time compsoing replies here..:)
___________________________________________-
Is It Right to Judge?

Please resd these..

http://www.fundamentalbiblechurch.org/Tracts/fbcjudge.htm

"Can Or Should Christians Judge One Another?"

http://www.bibleteacher.org/Judging.htm

Who Are We to Judge?
Did Jesus forbid us from judging others?

http://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2001/012/29.70.html

Why do Christians judge one another when Jesus said not to?

http://www.answers2prayer.org/bible_questions/Answers/judgment/judging.html

Judging

http://www.apologeticsindex.org/j14.html

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 07:33 PM
Lynn get off your high horse.

You nor I don't know anyone at all let alone enough to say "You don't know enough Christians".

Get off your soapbox honey. Or start a thread saying why all the world is going to hell because they don't swallow your brand of religion - your version of christianity.

hate is hate and ignornace is ignornace.

XXX

sablefish
12-26-2004, 07:38 PM
I believe the body of Christ is in the faithful .. I was wondering.. What is the name of the Church that you go to? Are you a Pentecostal.. for instance?

I am a Baptized Pentecostal.. And I think wars and killing for profit are very evil, I support our troops by doing everything in my power to get them out of this immoral, illegal mess that "Our Christian" leaders have gotten us into..

But that is just my opinion.. an opinion of one, of the many people on this forum... all informed opinions are equal.

Daniel
12-26-2004, 08:25 PM
Wow!

First let me say I ask for forgiveness from anybody that I've insulted. Insults are wrong and I don't like it. But... I'm human and I'll speak my mind, if your offended, well Sorry but maybe you should avoid my posts. I certainly avoid some of the people on this site. We are all supposedly free right?

IcheFur,
Im glad you said something about Lynne's moniker, It reminds me of the girls wearing a miniskirt in church, sitting in the front pew!

Now I can add Catholic to my labels list. By the way, I was baptized Presbyterian by my parents, before I had the choice. And for a long time I considered myself to be a Christian. I guess I always knew there is a God and will always give Thanks and Praise to him and him only. But the people in some of these churches are just sooo lame and I never felt comfortable around these people. For a short time I went back to the Presbyterians, because they were sort of liberal and I had my eye on a certain girl! I've also had experience with Catholics, Mormons, Born agains, and recently I've had a family member attending a Christian church-Episcopal! Man these people are promoting Homosexuality! I can only shake my head.

Christians need to get themselves together. We've got Catholic priests dabling in alter boys, Born agains thinking Bush is the second coming, and Episcopals (and others?) condoning Homosexuals. Whats next? Worship of idols and child sacrifice, noo thats current history, oh yeah!

nohope187
12-26-2004, 08:40 PM
My parents were Roman Catholic before I was born and then after I arrived they converted to the rapture cult, I mean modern day Christianity non-denominational. 20 million Christians fall away from the bible in favor of the shit that Tim Lahaye and Jerry Jenkins peddle in their "Left Behind" series. It should of been called,"Taken for a Ride". In the meantime, AC DC's "Highway to Hell" is a pretty groovy tune for most. :-P

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 08:51 PM
sabelfish, below are the quotes on "your" faith to Daniels's words:

Christianity is the four gospels as far as I am concerned and living a life as a Christian involves turning the other cheek.. Even if they kill you and your family.. and everybody that you ever knew.. According to my interpretation of The Gospels.. Our job as Christians is to die at the hands of the evil ones that they might see that peace and brotherhood and truth is the answer.

As far as I am concerned the Old Testament is a bunch of phony history. Ripe with symbolism.. like Adam and Eve, and Noah's ark, a bunch of fairy tales.. From what I have seen there was no Exodus and Solomon never even had a temple.. The Old Testament as far as I am concerned is the reason for a land grab.. of another peoples country.. And who wrote the Old Testament giving them the land of another people? Was it God or was it greed.

The message of Christ is in the four Gospels.. The rest of the Bible is of little interest to me as it has been retranslated to the destruction of The Christ's Message.

I have free will.. I get to chose my own God... So there!... Go ahead and yell.

I don't agree with all the above. But, if this is your "choice" of "free will", then I guess, you, like so mnay here, have already chosen your
god.

sablefish
12-26-2004, 09:00 PM
I liked ACDC at least they were honest about what they were doing.. I like you Daniel.. I suspect you are one of the good guys.. I wish lynns_shadow would realize that we are on her side.. Somehow, I think that she needs a collective hug from us.. Or something like that. I hope she comes back an tells us what sliver of Christianity she believes in. Christianity has been reduced to slivers at this point.. Probably at the urging of the NWO... Divide and conquer being their motive.

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 09:08 PM
First let me say I ask for forgiveness from anybody that I've insulted. Insults are wrong and I don't like it. But... I'm human and I'll speak my mind, if your offended, well Sorry but maybe you should avoid my posts. I certainly avoid some of the people on this site. We are all supposedly free right?

Ok that sounds nice..
I won't not reply because I see lies.

Now I can add Catholic to my labels list. By the way, I was baptized Presbyterian by my parents, before I had the choice. And for a long time I considered myself to be a Christian. I guess I always knew there is a God and will always give Thanks and Praise to him and him only. But the people in some of these churches are just sooo lame and I never felt comfortable around these people. For a short time I went back to the Presbyterians, because they were sort of liberal and I had my eye on a certain girl! I've also had experience with Catholics, Mormons, Born agains, and recently I've had a family member attending a Christian church-Episcopal! Man these people are promoting Homosexuality! I can only shake my head.

"born agains"?

Ichefur,Im glad you said something about Lynne's moniker, It reminds me of the girls wearing a miniskirt in church, sitting in the front pew!

So much for the man who dislikes insulting people..

They are all very insutling here. I'd say the one's who replied to me tonight, some of the biggest mouths and worst ones, actually, from this end. Sorry, but very true.

I don't know how you deduced a miniskirt from a 1 inch avatar. Or my heart mind or character as a woman.

Perhaps, for you all, I should've used a boys picture as a woman that I am? Then it would fit in with your-all general confusion?

No thanks, I'm not confused. And my God is not one of confusion:)

I think the degeneration into personal insults that this place has fallen to, in the short time I've been here, shows me the quality, or not, of the individuals replying to me.

Nothing more, nothing less.

I won't stay here to be an object of your true- "hate" and "ignorance".

P.S. It takes little to be unkind and attacking in an anonymous forum, any coward can do that.

It takes a TRUE coward and ignorant, hateful soul to do it en masse, with one or more people against one person. This makes it more than a one to one talk. It becomes two or more attacking one person, in this case me.

It always shows the lack on the part of those doing the attacking. Hardly ever on the one being ganged up on.

nohope187
12-26-2004, 09:08 PM
As long we're all enemies of the State, we might as well be down with Jesus 'cause "we all hang together or we hang alone."-Ben Franklin :-P

sablefish
12-26-2004, 09:09 PM
Thanks for coming back to us.. I am not religious.. Yet I believe in Jesus Christ and the power of tongues.. I am a Christian.. perhaps not the same brand as you are, but I am a Christian.. What denomination are you?.. That is what I am wondering.

But after listening to your last screed about how hate filled we are.. It makes me really wonder about you and your motives.. and for what reason you would bring your hateful message to us.. Is this the Message Of Peace And Of Hope or, is this a message of a dude living in the Bronx hiding in back of a Harlot image, pretending to be Christian trying to destroy this websites mellow mood with your accusations of hatred .. You stink.

You don't even have the courage to tell us where you live or what your e-mail address is .. you are a flake.

Now.. Do you want to tell us what Christian Church you belong to, and please give the name of the Church and Pastor so we know how to contact you in case God has a message.

Disruptor. (I hate to say it).. If it is not true then tell us what denomination that you are.. so we can talk instead of argue.

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 09:17 PM
Obviously you have found your faith and I wish you well in your search for truth and justice in your life. I don't think I'll say much more on that note.

Goodnight XXX

nohope187
12-26-2004, 09:18 PM
I'm a follower of Christ but, I'm whole heartedly against organized religion. Every fuckin' church in Amerika is a 501-C3 tax exempt organization- corporate businesses that make money off of getting new members and the members sell their souls for tax deductions as the churches being in bed with the government sells their members down the river betraying them to the government. Talk about fuckin' reprobate, man! This is it! This shit stinks to high heaven and you damn sure better believe God can smell it! :-P

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 09:24 PM
Mary

I can speak for myself, and for Christians, and about being a Christian, and Jesus,
but

you can’t speak for me.

What you’ve said about yourself says volumes, unfortunately, by saying not a word about yourself, but me. Me, who you do not know and know nothing about. I, on the other hand, can share from the perspective of who (Jesus Christ) and what (Christians and myself ) I do know.

You Mary, are looking to talk on and on and on, quite erroneously, about who (me) and what (me and Christians) you, clearly, don’t know about.

When you come out of your state mary, perhaps we can talk. ‘Til then, and in the meantime, when it comes to these topics, respectfully, you know nothing.

Why? Because, you don’t know about me, and you don’t know about we Christians, you’re not one.

P.S. I mean it about “state” Mary, you sound a bit stressed there hon.

And as for all your personal insults of me, that’s all they are, catty female insults.

A lot of women talk this way out of envy, and/or when they really have not much knowledge on a topic. Often it is a byproduct of ego frustration or hormones.

Seems if you can’t be the gal in focus in the room you’ve got to cut down the one who is at that moment, huh mary? How sad..

Stick to what you may know of mary, if you do, stick to that and be kind and positive. That seems to be your strength and forte',in looking to see your best.. You know nothing of me or this topic. It is clear.

And please don’t address me anymore, mary.

I’ve found your approach, and your comments to me, only replies that are out-of-turn, as I am always addressing OTHERS when you reply.

Also, your replies to me have been nothing BUT putdowns of me personally, or Christians in general. Catty is never a pretty piece in a woman’s wardrobe Mary. You ought to buy a new one.It is never attractive ;- )


One more thing Mary.

Ignorance is not “hate” but ignorance, and “hate” is not ignorance it is “hate”.

Since you seem to display both in such liberal amounts towards both me and Christians, I am surprised you don’t know the meanings better.

I am, here, as I understand, free to defend my faith, and mention who I think or feel is not defining my faith.

The faith I define is not "mutually exclusive", but how the vast majority of Christians see things.

That's just a fact :)

The fact that you must personally attack me for that, speaks more about you personally and your ways Mary, than anything else.

I think you ought to find another to bully Mary. All your words about “judging” to me only end up judging you.

XXX
to you too hon.

sablefish
12-26-2004, 09:39 PM
We got problems here in River City

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 09:43 PM
Lyn.. blah.blah.blah.

Sticks and stones and what not...

Read my last post and re-read your last post.

Don't forget to nominate yourself for sainthood status. Give me a break lady.

I don't know you and I would not wish too. You are not my cup of tea any more than mush dummy. far too judgemental for my liking. Just my opinion and if you feel the need to write another rant at me. be my guest. I have broad enough shoulders, sweetie.

P.S. get off your Christian soapbox. You are judge and jury now for God of who is Christian and who isn't? Please give me and yourself a break. There is only one God and you are not it.

There is only one Jesus Christ and you do not have the corner market on his love. He came for the whole of humanity, so get over yourself chick.

Blah. blah. blah

N.B. I didn't bother to read your little poison pen letter, the first few lines gave away the gist of your sentiment.

Farewell oh black and white film star. I wouldn't wish to live in your black and white world.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

nohope187
12-26-2004, 09:47 PM
Hell, since I'm on a roll with this rant, I might as well keep goin'. I agree with Daniel that Christ is not co-equal with God, nor is he God because that ties in with bullshit Roman Catholic doctrine that Mary is the mother of God. So, that just makes Christ the Son of God. How could the Son be co-equal with the Father when it was the Father who resurrected him? With this line of reasoning, it also shoots a major hole in the TRINITY concept. Remember, early Israeli's new God as the great spirit? Hell, even Christianized American Indians back in colonial days new God as the great spirit. So instead of having a trinity, we just have God and his son. Why do'nt ya'll chew on that for awhile? :-P

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 09:50 PM
Lynn......

LYNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

I just went back and read your post.

You ignorant bitch. It's because of the likes of you and other idiots, namely mush dummy, people are warring instead of learning.

In a word

Go f#$%k yourself lynn or learn. Stop being such a bitch. This world breeds far too many like you.

XXX

Sorry sable and I can't tolerate "women" like that. The more I read her bullshit, the more I am reminded of the dummy.

Kiss my ass Lynn

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 09:58 PM
sablefish

I am strongly going to consider leaving this forum

because it could, possibly, end up taking time from the important people (this can never be), and things (this shouldn't be),
in my life..

I do not think "Christianity" is in "shreads".

Also, I think it is beyond the point of insipid and just down right cruel, I will even say against women, to make fun of my name here or my avatar.

You knock feminists and femimisn, fine, and when a woman, considered intelligent, with a "pretty" and modest woman's avatar, you knock her down and her virtue. (You can't knock my virtue, obviously, but in the form of print).

To me this is beyond the pale.

I honestly have no words for such a pasttime.

I don't know who "Ichefur" is , or why he or she would stoop to such ways of thinking or speaking.
Particulalry since I have not dialogued with him. (But , I guess attacks know no bounds around here..)

Often, when people do not understand a person or thing, envy it, maybe, or simply resent it, or, feel threatened, for whatever reason, the party then falls into the terrible sinful place of cutting others down.

I am sorry I had to jump on Mary here, someone is enjoying all this, but I consider it a sheer waste of time. I felt need to reply to her because I am a Christian, not a doormat. And I was tiring of her talking to me that way, about me and Christians etc.etc.etc.

Suffice to say, you don't know and are not real Christians, and you don't really like the bulk of them, or maybe some and me you don't like too.

As for the picture there of an woman, that is the closest in appearance to me personally, without me using my own photo.

I am sorry my avatar here so deeply offends you and "Ichefur", whoever that is, don't recall talking to him or her at all, that the party must cut at the person, me, who uses it.

I won't remove it.

But, yes, I truly am considering removing ME, from here.

Somehow I don't sense from those who've replied to me this evening, that that will be a problem for you.

P.S. I am not on a "high horse" because I care about how I speak and don't curse. My God calls me to be Holy and my words to be "as the very words of God". Needless to say, unlike the new-agers, this does not "make""me God", it describes how I am to speak and try to be. My allegiance God, and Jesus Christ/God causes me to want to be holy and like Him. Part of this is to be forgiving, patient and kind and
love the truth and speak it in love. As hurt and frustrated as I've felt here with some, I've really tried to.

I have better things to do now..

like being with my loved ones, and doing my art and writing ,and cooking, and sewing, and resting and sleeping, and frankly..

almost anything else!!!

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 10:02 PM
Lynn: Good - piss off.
I'm fed up being nice to idiots.

I come here to challenge what I have been taught to believe. Sometimes I challenge other people to question what they believe too. And in your case, you being a woman, supposedly, (I don't know who is typing behind your little love notes) I am so sick and tired of the few select christians trying to tell everyone alse they are going to hell.

Lady, that kind of attitude ain't gonna get you, or your kind, very far in life.

People like you can kiss my ass. I don't like your kind.

XXX

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 10:14 PM
Matthew 12:34

nohope187
12-26-2004, 10:18 PM
I don't know how to spell today, on my last post I meant to say "knew" instead of "new" which I said twice. You all KNEW that right? :-P

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 10:21 PM
mathew 12:34

O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

Lynn. Piss off. From the heart, "I don't like your kind."

Read what you yourself have written and take a tour around your little glass house, oh judgemental one.

blah blah blah. Piss off.

XXX

Daniel
12-26-2004, 10:29 PM
yea I was goin to add what Good have you spoke of lynne? And by the way I thought your chillren were calling!

Lets avoid the foul language folks, it only is offensive and shows lack of dignity.

Can't we all just get along?

Man I can't stop laughing!

nohope187
12-26-2004, 10:30 PM
Hey Lynn, when the world government starts enforcing biometric implants and your pastor at church endorses it in the name of National Security because he's a religious whore in bed with the beast system, Please don't take it... that is if you really are the follower of Christ that you say you are. :-P

lynns_shadow
12-26-2004, 10:30 PM
Luke 6:45

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 11:02 PM
hope and daniel... I have to agree.

Jesus is the son and God is the daddy. They are not one and the same in my books either. Now Lynn and her army can send the lions in or not, as the case may be.

I am not a Christian, by her standards. Maybe I am not Christian, even by my own. I believe God chose jesus to be a messenger of hope, peace, and love to humanity, of the miracles that can be achieved through the love of God and only a mustard grain of faith. Heaven on earth.

I believe God loves everyone and that's what Jesus taught me. I find it very hard to appreciate the likes of some people. In that way, I suppose I am not a very good Christian. Yet, discernment is supposedly key to Christianity. How does one discern without judging? Do the two notions not go hand in hand?

I suppose I see what I see and still try to keep an open mind and when I am faced with yuck, I generally square off to it and then, walk away.

Jesus is the son of God, this I beleieve. He was somehow divinely inspired into being. That much I do believe. Whether it was divine conception, I think they lost the meaning there in the translation when Mary was changed from a young woman in one bible to a virgin in the next version.

Makes the qualities of Jesus somewhat unattainable if he is a God. Imagining God in my mind is no mean feat. Unless I picture the little old white-haired dude, not my notion God at all. God is so much more. God seems so much bigger than that to me.

I always thought Jesus was much more approachable as a human being, endowed with God's spirit. In my mind and my heart, he is God's right hand man. He is not God himself.

I've asked God to help me many times and he does. When I pray, I pray to God. I ask Jesus to help me too. I ask for his guidance. He helps too. I ask my mum in heaven and my best friend pam to watch over my kids and they do.

My mental boundaries are set in my mind that if it ain't from God, I don't want to know. I'll be aware and I'll walk away. Seems like a Christian thing to do.

If anyone else feels the need to put me in my place, I welcome all genuine criticism. I have found my best friends in life to sometimes be my harshest critics.

If anyone else out there feels there is truth in what cow-face has said, please be good enough to let me know. I don't trust the stroke of her keys and I have come to value some of the opinions of some of the members present.

I did say I was either nice or I was a bitch... that is my nature. Her and Loony seem to bring out the bitch. I wonder why? Seriously? This something i am seriously questioning in line with my Christianity. It's a glitch.

How can two people I do not know piss me off so bad when I generally have great patience and good emotional control?

Comments please...

Peace XXX

eddie
12-26-2004, 11:11 PM
lynns.i have been reading some off the websites you gave us.they seem oke at first,some things are oke to me,others are just as bad as any other imho.i have compared it with the kjv and have my doubts.what bible are you reading?
there are a few things that have changed including names. :-)

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 11:15 PM
Luke 6:45

a good man out of the treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the eveil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil; for the abundance of his heart his mouth speaketh.

I couldn't have said it any better Lynn.

Now bugger off you b*tch.

lolololololololoololollolol

Lynn.....Thanx for letting God answer my question through you in explaining why I question so much, what people, including myself, believe, say, and write. You did me a favour ya old cow. Yayyyyyyyy God!! God loves everyone; even me and even her.

I was just reflecting what I sensed in the lovely Lynn's shadow. She brought out the ugly in me. Now I understand it, I'll be able to control it better.

I'm a lot more sensitive than I realised. I can sense the backbiters. Trouble is, I enjoy biting back. People like that don't like being bitten or challenged anymore than the government or the banks.

life is a constant education

looking forward to the next volley
anyone catch the score?
Christianity : love?
everyone else who is going to hell: ?
XXXX

Daniel
12-26-2004, 11:28 PM
Mother Mary,

Relax, they are only devils, you must avoid them and understand they are everywhere, perhaps we can all just be glad were not in Sri Lanka.

Comment: Christians and New Agers keep refering to God as loving everyone. Come on people. God is Righteous and if he loves Devils/child rapists then he is not My God.

marypopinz
12-26-2004, 11:43 PM
Have you ever heard of tough love?
Sometimes, you have to be cruel to be kind?

Trust me, I believe God can love a pedophile. That perv was once an innocent child, an innocent babe. And he acknowledges their wrongs. This is where the righteous anger comes into play for me. No child is more precious than another and wrong is wrong.

God will give you chance after chance and sooner or later, for some actions, there will be hell to pay. I don't think sayin' sorry on a death bed, out of fear, is somehow gonna cut it with the big cheese.

There are actions that I believe God will mete out a heavy punishement for, and some may lose their souls to damnation and God will cry and mourn for each one of his lost children, whom he loved so well. And punish them, he will.

That's how I see God. Lessons have to be learnt...eventually, inevitably. My two cents as always.

Thanx for the advice. Accepted. XOX

XXX

lynns_shadow
12-27-2004, 12:25 AM
Mary

I won’t use your last comment as a template for me to not reply. God’s Word says, as much as it is in our power, to be at peace with all. I can see that it is quite possible my words to you seemed less than loving or kind. I am sorry for that Mary.

My wish was not to single you out that way. And it is not my interest to hurt you or anyone, or judge your ways of speaking, how you do or don’t behave, or your character.

It can be easy to become cold to those who seem to go on about “us” and a group we belong to, and their sin. The best of us can withdraw quite quickly from thinking “anything nice” about anyone who jumps on us or seems to attack our faith, our beliefs, and our very person. Even, it is to all of our flesh, very attractive to want to jump back and go on at the person.

I thought about you yesterday Mary, and thought how nice it would be to speak to you in the most kind loving way, particularly with the way you had been speaking about me and Christians here, at times..

I suppose between my tiredness, physical fatigue, and also the tiredness of seeing so many things untrue about we Christians, and yes some about me, written by you as well, my reply to you was half in frustration. Half in simply my human tendency, like anyone else, to feel disappointed and hurt when I feel I am being stereotyped in any context. No one likes this Mary.

I sense your zeal for doing well here. I believe you don’t want to be unkind to others or lash out at them.

I know for myself personally, I would not have the power to consistently, or even somewhat consistently, be nice and kind to those who misjudge me or revile me, or truly forgive them, if it weren't for God’s grace through Jesus Christ.

I am sorry that the prejudices and lies which flourish in this world, have caused many to misjudge and thus alienate sincere Christians here.

The only difference between me and them, is that I have spoken out about my faith in Jesus Christ and am an Orthodox (believes in Jesus Christ as God, the Holy Bible etc, the Triune nature of God, etc.) evangelical Christian. So, truth being, there is no real difference, and this is the main of what defines a true Christian.

Sablefish, I have no denomination. just a Christian.

Mary, I am sorry if my response and words irked you to reply in anger.

We are all human, and I suppose my reply to you also came from a bit of impatience with some of your replies on here about “Christians”.

I don’t know what “kind” of person I am in your eyes. I won’t pretend to judge you or your character. I don’t know you and you’re so right above Mary, you really don’t know me either.

I forgive you for your words to and about me Mary.

I hope sometime you too can forgive my airing my hurt and frustration with your words about “me” and “Christians” in a public forum.

And no, I don’t see any ignore mode here anymore.

Also, I don’t consider your words here to me a “challenge”, Mary, nor a thing to "volley".
I am neither intimidated by words, nor am I bothered by them to move to reply.

I came back to say this to you, because I am a Christian, and seek to do things God's way. This is not a reflection on you either eay, I am speaking about myself..

In my apologizing to you, I am in no way saying you are right in anything you’ve said to me here in this thread, or about we Christians at all.

I am simply making peace, because, that is what my God would want me to do with those who do not love me and hate me and spitefully speak of me.

As for Daniel,

There is not one thing meritous in anything Mary has said in her anger towards me Daniel.

Why you, Daniel, would encourage that kind of cruel outburst of pride and ego on her part, from hurt or whatever, is not the stuff of God.

But I have forgiven her and said what I needed to; I will leave it at that.

Daniel, I don't know what to say to you except, so long..

I hope they do come to know Him and see who is who here..

You do not speak for God's goodness or will Daniel on this or anything..

bye now

marypopinz
12-27-2004, 12:38 AM
Lynn, don't you have a dinner to go burn or something better to do? Didn't you say??

That act doesn't wash with me, honey. You still had to stick in your little nasty remark, at the end, no matter how nice you wanted or pretended to be.

Like I said, I don't like your kind.

And if I feel you are writing B.S., which is what you were slinging at sable when he said nothing out of turn, I'll check you when and how I see fit and you can tell me I'm going to hell in a handbasket. Your opinion does not wash with me.

Re-read your posts and see that you drew first blood, my dear.

Piss off with your apology. I don't want it. How is that for Christian? I don't dance with the devil.

XXX

lynns_shadow
12-27-2004, 01:31 AM
Well Mary, this, above, is you..

That's fine.

As I said forgiveness does not mean we are to so much like a person or be interested in their friendship or what they have to say, or like their way of being.

Though I do forgive your crude and unkind talk and behavior towards me here Mary, henceforth I have no interest whatsoever in talking to you or about you anymore, in anyway.

I won't go on with my insights or opinions about you or how I find you to be or not.


I will simply say, I find you, your words, your spirit, and your conduct in general, and about me specifically here, as well as your comments about we Christians, calavier, callous, and only set to make yourself the center of attention, for better or worse, and I've seen no "better".

I don't have to explain my time here, my hours or my life to you. Nor anyone here.

For the future, your comments to or about me, will remain sufficient for all the world to see, in this forum, as the bitter, unkind things they are. Again, no more no less.

I wish no more dialogue with the "like" of YOU.

As I said before, your words here talk more about you than a million I could ever produce.

You will no longer be a source of my attention or dialogue here, Mary.

I suppose you'll have to find someone else to spitefully dump on and pick on and make a target of your silly, senseless, and cruel, bitter diatribes.

My apology, for any of those original words that hurt, stands.

I don't expct one from you, and I should think it would only be a synthetic one to make you feel better about yourself in a crowd. For me it was and is sincere. But you can add this post to it, to be fair to all.

I won't have any part of you anymore on here Mary.

I do not like your style, or way of speaking.

I find you to be harping on a thing all night long and milking an issue just to try to keep a semblence of "dignity" here.

Take your dog-like behavior to some other place or person marypopinz.

I am a woman and a human being. Not your lamppost or firehydrant, where you may freely "poop" out all your sordid ..longwindied and unkind egosim on me.

lynns_shadow
12-27-2004, 01:38 AM
Here are my rules about you Mary, so you and no one here forgets:)

1.For the future, your comments to or about me, will remain sufficient for all the world to see, in this forum, as the bitter, unkind things they are. Again, no more no less.

2.I wish no more dialogue with the "likes" of YOU.

3.You will no longer be a source of my attention or dialogue here, Mary.

4.I suppose you'll have to find someone else to spitefully dump on ..
5.I won't have any part of you anymore on here Mary.


Though 2 and 3 are kind of the same and do sort of match # 5, I thought it was important to emphasize I'M ending this :).

You, may go on and be as unkind and mean and insipid as you please..I won't take the bait :)

Your "volley" is over :)

marypopinz
12-27-2004, 09:11 AM
Wah wah... you said you weren't gonna bite and you went on for two posts.

wah wah wah.

Get a life Lynn. I'll tell you the same thing I told Mushy boy. Don't dish it out if ya can't take it and stop your whining, ya old cow.


And you can stick YOUR rules up YOUR ass
You think you can SUGGEST or TELL me what to do, or anyone else on this forum for that matter? I am laughing my ass off now. You are funny, for sure, enetertaining to say the least.

Good luck chum. Better men have tried and bigger bitches have fallen. Your rules... that was funny. Maybe I should have read... but just the thought was enough to send me rolling in laughter.


Peace XXX :lol:

REMEMBER... DON'T BITE! :-x

That was a lot of "evil" from your heart and your keys, "lady"... once again... re-read your posts. I think your glass house just shattered.

Ana
12-27-2004, 03:35 PM
Well well well, it's all been kicking off on here hasn't it, tut tut!

This is the reason I am not religious or a member of ANY group or political party as I cannot and will not accept hierarchy. Nobody is above me, nobody tells me what to think or do and nobody will tell me what to make of my experiences. It seems to me that certain people on here have taken it upon themselves to insult others who won't be dictated to.

I don't want to hear ANY flipping Christian or any other faith try and tell me I haven't got a place with God or in Heaven, it's where I came from, it's my home, I only popped down here for a bit part in a horror movie, I hoped to be killed off by now but unfortunately I've got some more scenes to act out. Roll on the credits so I can get the hell out of here.

As for my buddy Mary, she doesn't shoot down other women or fall into the envy/ego trap, she welcomed me with open arms to this forum (I think I was the second girl to join after herself) and has shown herself to be honest, warm and approachable - she also goes out of her way to boost you up if you're feeling down. Besides, Mary is part of the Dynamic Girlee Duo, she's invincible :-D

A few years ago I too used to accuse every woman of being jealous of me but looking back it was because I was a stroppy cow that one or two were hostile towards me, my breathtaking good looks didn't come into it!

:-P

DarkChilde3D
12-27-2004, 03:56 PM
I'm a Roman Catholic. I was born this way . . . this makes me, by default, (for lack of a better word,) a Christian.

I consider myself well versed in the Bible, although not word for word, I understand the bible on a metaphorical level, as well as the lessons it is supposed to teach.

I try to use the bible as a guide for living my life. However, there is something in there that, for all intents and purposes, says that THE ORIGINAL TEXT IS TO BE USED ONLY. This means, that any translation should be considered false. Unfortunately, I'm not versed in Ancient Aramaic, and besides that, even if I was, its sort of difficult for a Regular Joe like me to just get my hands on a copy. Therefore, it is the only version that I have, God knows this, and I'm sure He understands the dilema.

I do not believe in organized religeon. The Roman Catholic church is built like an army . . . Oh, wait . . . That's right . . . it used to be. With all the pedophelia going on, anyhow, I really don't think that men such as that are the right people to teach me. Sorry, but as Sam Kineson once said, "We have God's special education group right here." I have my own beliefs, and I have taught sunday School. I taught in such a way as to take lessons from the bible for life, and that the individual finds his or her own faith.

I try to love my neighbor and my enemy as I love myself, however this is difficult. God knows I'm only human, and I'm sure he'll forgive me.

Other than that, I think I'm an all around OK guy. If I'm not, nobody is to judge me but God anyway. If you DO judge me, hey . . . free will allows for that. To coin one other phrase, I'm going back to the pot-toker himself, Bob Marley.

Don't you look at me so smugly
And say I'm going bad
Who are you to judge me,
and the life that I live?
I know that I'm not perfect,
And that I don't care to be,
So before you point your finger,
Be sure your hands are clean.

Much Love,
Have a nice day
DarkChilde3D

marypopinz
12-27-2004, 07:46 PM
Ana,

Thank you for your generous compliments. You are a babe. No doubt in my mind. I have very rarely seen anyone so close to my own train of thought as yourself. It is tres cool!

Darkchild,

We'll be seeing big things from you. Definitely. I like the way you passed on your Christianity - your faith. I think that was what Jesus would want us to do. People to have their own faith, upon their own heart, that they have developed through careful thought and an open heart to God, allowing God to inspire our actions.

People like the shadowy Lynn, really annoy me. Reminds me of the priest I witnessed screaming in a fervour to the children in the front row seats that there are only 144,000 seats in heaven, they were all sinners and they were all going to hell. I rose to my feet, turned my back, and walked out that church. That is not love nor gospel nor from god, in my books. Anyone else can choose to believe whatever they want. I am only expressing my sole opinion.

I teach my youngest that all babies come from heaven and all babies go back to heaven eventually; some sooner than later.

Hell hasn't entered her world or her mind.

Mary XXX

DarkChilde3D
12-27-2004, 10:14 PM
Thanks for your compliments, mary.

On the topic of hell . . . eventually, I plan on putting the fear of a forgiving God into her. . . meaning, if she screws up, she'll be forgiven . . . just don't do it on purpose with the, "oh, he'll forgive me, so its okay" attitude. But you're right. A child that is ignorant in the world of experiences she is not yet had should not have to worry about things like that. I went to a catholic school for a little while.

To the nuns, every little thing was an earth crashing sin. "guess what, sister jean," I said, "I don't think God is going to kill me because I was talking to my friend, I think he's going to kill you for being mean." Needless to say I was expelled for that . . . I guess the church couldn't handle the fact that I knew more than they did . . . either that or they were arrogant and just wouldn't take that kind of mouth from a child. My parents couldn't believe what I said . . . but they didn't believe me when I told them what caused me to say that. I had to get my friends to vouch for me, and believe me, for a 2nd grader, thats a tough thing to do.

That's why I don't believe in organized religion . . . but someday, I'd like to get back into teaching sunday school, not to undermine the church, but to teach kids how to apply stories like Job and the Psalms and Proverbs to their everyday life.

For now, though, I'm going to make sure that my little girl makes it to heaven. She's job one for the time being . . . because if I left it up to my wife, she's corrupt her with this lesbian man-trashing feministic malarkey.

DarkChilde.

Ozziecynic
12-28-2004, 03:29 AM
:idea: Until many of you stop looking at christianity through such tainted affluent pro capitalist glasses.I fail to how you will ever understand Jesus modest message of the Meek inheriting the earth and the Rich man like a camel passing through the eye of the needle in attempt to get to heaven.

Its time the real social justice message was put back into christianity meaing highlighting of the apostate market fruad known as u.s style christian fundermentalism!. :-P

DarkChilde3D
12-28-2004, 03:53 AM
Ozzie, to whom exactly are you referring? I've seen the same exact post in at least one other topic . . . what makes you, for lack of better wording, a 'better christian' than all of us? Cus I sure don't see myself as a capitalist. I know that money is necessary for life in the world we live in, so if that is capitalist, I appologize, but I don't plan on living my life under a bridge with my little girl freezing her ass off in the winter. And if you're speaking of capitalist as aquiring extra goods, you're guilty also . . . you don't need a computer, nevermind the internet, to live your life . . .

But nevermind that for now . . . can you please give a more precise reason as to why you seem to be judging us in the first place when it is solely God's job to do so?

Ozziecynic
12-28-2004, 05:56 AM
:-) Ozzie, to whom exactly are you referring?
Most Americans! This could apply to most first world europeans.However americans have made a point of being selfish and placing it as virtue rather than vice.And worse they wish to export this attitude to the rest of the world via Globalisation the NWO whatever you want to call it!.Greed is Good Yeh well I disagree!.

8-) what makes you, for lack of better wording, a 'better christian' than all of us?

I am not a better christian than anyone being a christian is not some kind of competition!.
My point is simply that the message of christ in the NT is mainly about being of a modest spirit and controlling pride(ego).I realise I am just as guilty as anyone when it comes to pride sometimes but atleast i recognise it some wont even admit they have problem with theirs.

To many people today christians or not believe life is simply a winner takes all survival of the fittest battle involves walking all over those weaker and lower on the capitalist hiearchy.

Not only that many so called christians believe God condones being self centred as some kind of virtue rather than vice!It is then that one realises there are many apostate churches out there actually preaching the work of satan in church robes not Christ! :-)

I know that money is necessary for life in the world we live in, so if that is capitalist, I appologize, but I don't plan on living my life under a bridge with my little girl freezing her ass off in the winter. And if you're speaking of capitalist as aquiring extra goods, you're guilty also . . . you don't need a computer, nevermind the internet, to live your life . . .

Their many differnt degrees of capitalism just as there are many different degress of other ideologies.At the present time we live under Market liberalism or Free trade as it is more commonly known.It is not the only form of capitalism and their are different levels of capitalism that the U.S and the west has lived under in past decades that require more Government intervention in capitalist economy Roosevelts New Deal in the 1930s was an example of this.
But enough said this is meant to be a christian thread i can disscus the economics in more detail elswhere read some of my other post and you should get my drift I am pretty leftwing (doesnt mean Marxist) compared to most posters on this forum but I am not secular I am a christian!. :-)

Daniel
12-28-2004, 06:15 AM
Ozzie fan (why?)

You brought up a point that I want all to consider.

Who do think is the meek of the earth? Who is the most despised, trashed, forgotten, poor, used, group of people on earth?

And getting through the eye of the needle. As a point of discussion; how do we do that? Can Americans do that?

marypopinz
12-28-2004, 07:34 AM
Ozzie, I appreciate your sentiment and would challenge you on one point.

When you say americans and selfish and no acknowledgement - this "American" attitude being sent out globally. I understand. And....

These kind of greedy, selfish people inhabit the planet everywhere and are known to accumulate in numbers where there is a concentration of wealth. They are from every country.

Social programming supercedes their humanity, in my opinion. Brainwashed to a greater or lesser degree.

I would challenge you that this elitist system of "know your station" in life, came from across the pond, from the British motherland. Americans, nor Canadians nor Australians aren't born with these funny selfish ideas; they are taught and indoctrinated through the system of modern society. Some, know no better. Some choose money over morality, willingly.

The bankers and the psychologists having been steering the future. America is the biggest brainwashing machine going. Canada is working hard on that issue too now. Britain wrote the book on spin.

Just my two cents. I feel the problem is the system, not so much the product of the system, from which country. Bush is the head puppet as America is the puppet head country, of this rediculous insane rambling road show of perverted economics.

If you could alter the system, you could in theory, alter the product.

Social deprogramming is needed.
Squaring up to and facing off with the truth.

Ecology. We are all part of the problem and a part of the solution. Quantum physics. What are any of us gonna do to resolve it?

Laying blame elsewhere resolves nothing. Fixing the here and now, where we each personally are geographically located, is what counts. That is my Christianity.

Mary XXX

nohope187
01-01-2005, 05:31 PM
Since there's a shitload of preachy threads littered about, might as well bring this one back on top.

sablefish
01-01-2005, 08:59 PM
nohope.. Yep.. Good move.. In fact I would not be surprised if in two weeks 90% of the threads will be about some kind of unforgiving perversion of the Spirit of Christianity, draped over our Opinion, and General threads.. And yet as I understand it.. All opinions are welcome..

A disruptor could easily destroy a site like ours, by just continually posting articles of his or her own flavor of "truth".. and especially, when the disruptor is hiding in back of "the cloth" to do it.. Why would anybody do such a thing?

Except to stop the sites message.. Against the NWO.

ephesians6
01-04-2005, 07:28 PM
MaryPoppers, tsk, tsk. Your venom and evil attitude towards Lynn is witch-like! Who is it that you pray to again? Satan?

Maybe you need to spend some time with the Bible and less time spewing witch-slime at decent folks like Lynn. If you think that indulging in such evil will go unnoticed by Christ, you're very wrong. His Spirit will not find a home in hearts that are filled with bitterness and poison.

You are mired in misery at this point, aren't you? You need to apologize for your nasty remarks and ask Jesus to forgive you; otherwise, you'll remain angry and bitter, and a haven for Satan.

lynns_shadow
01-04-2005, 07:44 PM
on sablefish/his posts-
boy you buy freeman's hokum on "disruptors" (i.e that's what he calls we Christians, ephesians), lock stock and barrel.

ephesians, we know Satan is the accuser of the brethren.

This week he worms his way through this forum, via freeman's word put out there to describe us. Not thinking for themselves, but assuming he is all right in his sharings, they connect such words with their own spiritual blindness, and connect us to the worst. Of course, it's a lie.

Anyone who talks about my sharings of Bible based websites for spiritual learning and edification, and calls them "litterings", amongst other bad words, is not one who knows better, in these things.

Thank you for coming to my defense ephesians and to rush dooney, again! I think you were very kind and very brave here, considering the chunk of folks who are like-minded against us here, to defend me the way you both have.

RUSH DOONEY-thank you-wherever you are!!!
Rush was right in what he said, maybe I shouldn't have taken him a wee bit to task on it, about how he went about it on here- telling the truth about right and wrong in how I was treated.But you know, at LEAST he was man enough to step out and admit about right and wrong.

I am always impressed to see the bravery, through courage and kindness, demonstrated by real men. I don't mean this as flattery. Thank the Lord for the Godly men. They have integrity, and would not pick on a woman, and I think in these isolated instances you both may've felt pressed to the point, when you saw the content of what was said to me. It's ok. Other guys are just males.

lynn

P.S. I believe NOTHING sablefish writes at this point. I hold him no ill will but can buy not one thing he says. Sorry. freeman, well, no comment..

lynns_shadow
01-04-2005, 08:13 PM
ephesians,

just one more thing though, if you want to talk about this topic, that's up to you guys, but I have made my peace about it, and when I say I forgive, I am not covering it by going on again about it..


this is not a judgment of you or anyone else. I can only speak for my part on it and my part is I forgave.

your talking about it I have no reply on that either way, though as I stated, I do appreciate your looking to defend me friend, thankyou.

but that's about it- not an encouragement to keep on, nor a request to stop-

this is a thing you have to take up and speak of yourselves, or not.

I've said my part , thanks :)

lynn

P.S. ephesians, I haven't really read what they wrote to me below, not fully, I am not sure I will.

As I was addressing you.

But I had to add, I urge you to cover this and I mean it, here's why.

I have adde dlinks here to what I thought wouldbe good teachings, for those interested in jesus. Now due time constraints etc. < Ihave not always had the ability to delve in depth into these sites for an awrenes sof the full message they share. Most, yes, but not all, only if the essential message was there.

As for this topic, part of loving one another requires forgiveness.

This is done by not repteating a wtong and putting it "on display" for all mankind.

Going on and on all day and night about the "wrongs" of men is somehat meaningless, as we all have sin and pressed to that impatient point, can come out with some pips of our own.

We are given, through God's Holy Spirit, through Jesus Christ alone, the power to say "No!" to sin. We are given the ability to clearly know right from wrong and the most redemptive working of this begins in our own hearts. All else flowing from there, with Him as the only Source, the true vine and the brach. We, the little branches.

Pray for the salvation ALL here, please.
Letting them know they are wrong and how and why is enough. We need not make a travesty of their sin and weakness. There but for God's grace, we'd be just as lost and blind and ticked off irrascable.

Aren't they a pretty crew playing "god"? But where is the mercy towards them? We have His righteouness we can speak for His view, His Spirit, His Word, but where is our mercy and love?

I'm not chiding you for standing up for me brothers, bravery in love is true bravery, the world needs more! But how are we loving them?
And I speak for myself too. We get so defensive w eare so much defending oursleves and our Lord our faith all day long! And I know it can be tiring, I understand!

Can we just let this topic die, Please?

I forgave mary, it is finished.

If my Lord said it is finished , in closing that deep wide door on all my ugly sins, who am I to pretend to keep the door open going on about the sins of others?

Right

madkhao
01-04-2005, 08:22 PM
Do you know what's worse than being unable to convert people to Christianity?

Converting people to Islam by setting a poor example of Christians.

Which is what the two of you (ephesians and lynn) are in danger of doing.

Take an example from Jesus and His story about the good Samaritan. He didn't bash the Samaritans faith he pointed out how he was the more neighbourly person, setting the better example.

It's one thing to sit in front of your computer and type what good things you do and it's another thing to actually be able to go out there and kiss the foot that kicks you in the mouth.

And consider the sinner who was more righteous beating his chest and asking God to have mercy on him rather than guy thanking God for not being a 'sinner'!

Luke 18:9

sablefish
01-04-2005, 08:28 PM
Listen to me lynn.. freeman is a Great man.. and I have known a few.. freeman can see things that you and I cannot.. I think he is the brightest bulb on this forum..

Why is it your instinct is to pick on the leaders, or is that something that you learned in school?.. In what country did you get your training?.

I figure that you are a foreign operative. (why don't you give us a telephone area code where we can call you?).. And for that matter why is your profile vacant of traces.. I'll tell you why.. Your intentions were always to disrupt this site.. With something other than Christianity on your mind.

All you have to do to prove me wrong is to give me a telephone number.. and we will have a chat about Jesus.. O.K.? I am a Christian... Just send me a message into my inbox.. and I will look at your area code... and give you a ringle.

If I am wrong,.. Please forgive me for being suspicious of you and your 'friends' causing discontent here on this forum.

Fellow CC's.. We are under an attack of the disruptors.. Let me see if "she" is real... If I get a number to call "her" and I am wrong.. I will apologize... But my instincts tell me we are under attack.. by vultures hiding in back of Bibles.

lynns_shadow
01-04-2005, 08:59 PM
Listen to me lynn.. freeman is a Great man.. and I have known a few.. freeman can see things that you and I cannot.. I think he is the brightest bulb on this forum..

Great, you love him, I'm glad. That's nice :)

Why is it your instinct is to pick on the leaders, or is that something that you learned in school?.. In what country did you get your training?.

Don't you think you all ought to be asking yourselves that question?:) Training?

All you have to do to prove me wrong is to give me a telephone number.. and we will have a chat about Jesus.. O.K.? I am a Christian... Just send me a message into my inbox.. and I will look at your area code... and give you a ringle.

You're not a Christian. You're lying! Your posts lump Jesus in with every other "ascended master". Bug off..

If I am wrong,.. Please forgive me for being suspicious of you and your 'friends' causing discontent here on this forum."

I forgive you. But I don't trust you, and I understand that's how some of you think, because you love freeman enough to believe lies about others. Never love anyone that much.

Fellow CC's.. We are under an attack of the disruptors.. Let me see if "she" is real... If I get a number to call "her" and I am wrong.. I will apologize... But my instincts tell me we are under attack.. by vultures hiding in back of Bibles.

Oh my gosh, ephesians, do you see what I must contend with here?

I wish you could see me smiling. I wish you could understand how sadly, hysterical this is. Sad that you can't trust who I am, and the many vain imaginations you court and entertain about others and me. And hysterical because everything I've said and all about me as well is true!

It's not my job to talk to you about "who I am".

Are you in the business of talking to strangers, who do not know you and spilling your guts? Why should I?

I won't.

Your going on in this vain is an attempt by Satan, your father, to shut me up and stop my fellow Christians from sharing or talking. And you and your "friends" will be responsible for each soul led astray.

As for you mr sablefish, I am dropping you cold. Your posts, particularly about "me" and "Christians", are in error.(I am sorry I want to be kind, but you're all wrong, and climbing up the wrong true here-slandering me-and desperately annoying, I might add, sorry.)

Now go away and leave me alone. I won't be party to anymore of your disgusting and wicked posts, which are Satanic lies, dragging me in with the likes of the Devil.

sablefish, I forgive you, I just don't want to know you,I'm sorry. Or your "friends".

As for freeman, I said what I did and I will say no more. I am not here to go into lengthy expository writings about the depths of men's (people's) "hearts", unless it is to share what I see as an error in behavior, or a false view I might wish to clarify, from a Christian perspective.

I have no more to say on him. He can imagine the worst things about me, who he does not know, I will not join in the slanderings you both seem to participate in public and private.

Freeman has closed the door to me, and there you go.

And to pick on all "4" of we vocal Christians, to the ton of you here, as well-

Shame on you!

Topic closed.

Ana
01-04-2005, 09:27 PM
This forum has turned into a cesspit of hypocrisy! The tactics shown by the fundamental Christians on here remind me of my many run-ins with Zionists who are totally biased and intolerant of their equals.

I'm glad I'm normal!

sablefish
01-04-2005, 09:29 PM
I'm done with you . You will hear nothing but silence from me.. and when Henry realizes what you guys are doing to his site.. I hope he can figure it out.. because disruptors like you will guys pretending to be Christians will destroy this place.

The only way to stop you vultures is to not respond.. And if that means that you, rush, and the other dude are the only people left .. The rest of us will find somewhere else to go..
Henry doesn't like intolerance.. He thinks we must join together if we are to stand a chance against Lucifer.. And here you and your friends show up as Satins children and pretending to be Christians.. If I was Henry I would get rid of you serpents now... You are not Christians.. You are from the other side.. The side of the NWO.. You guys are the enemy of all humanity.. Hiding in back of the Bible.. May you and your accomplices rot in Hell.

I hope Henry or the administration runs an ISP check on you guys.. because I don't see any telephone number where I can call you .. and talk about Jesus.

nohope187
01-04-2005, 09:36 PM
If Lynn and her two buddies are true Christains, why do they exhibit so much pride? :-P

nohope187
01-04-2005, 09:37 PM
Can you say white-washed tombs? I knew you could. :-P

lynns_shadow
01-04-2005, 11:32 PM
good for you no-hope..

sablefish, I wanted to come back and say something to you

The leader of your group here, the one whose opinions you hold so highly, freeman, is not anyone who likes me, that I know of.

Recently a private message transpired to me from freeman, and I can surely say, he is not anyone who thinks well of me in the slightest, from what I could glean.

His sharing indicated he did not like me or trust me or my words, and sought to question me and my heart, mind and 'motives', as if he could, he can't, down to the very fibre of my being.

His words to me were cruel, presumptive, cold, dismissive and hardly having anything to do with me or the truth. Yet they rolled off of his keyboard to me with the effortless flow of one, perhaps, seasoned in cold cruel discourse, no idea.

But this I know, that man does not like me!

Now if you think I should be interested in talking to you on the phone, I don't know why.
I'm married and I don't talk to strange men, or on the phone with them.

At the moment I have no better option, but I won't be interested in that one.
If you want to know more and talk about "Jesus", you can do that here just fine, and in any Christian chatroom.

But please don't pretend this is about Jesus Christ, or even me.

This is about your not knowing who I am, disliking that fact, being spiritually blind to interest in the truth about Jesus, and all of your deep trust you place in your friend freeman and what he sees as truth, or true.

If his 'power' is so threatened by a group of vocal Christians, and not a very big one, I question its source, yes, I do.

More than that, the way he spoke to me made me wary of him and his words, and sharings. Which is a shame because a agreed with somethings he said. And as for Henry, I agree with a huge lot of what he says. I am hurt and saddened it has come to this here- but Christ's words say He came tobring a sword to divide light from darkness..

And I'm afraid about Christians and me, your friend freeman is quite inthe dark there.

I don;t want to go on about the man and I don't want to fall into slander, so I will leave it at this.

In the end, I will say, he closed the door to me, unless he wishes to address me, perhaps with a requisite apology, I have no interest in talking with him or his friends.

There was just too much in what he said to me to sufficiently put me off to many here and you'll just have to believe that. Either way, it's true.

God bless

madkhao
01-05-2005, 09:53 AM
lynn wrote

This is done by not repteating a wtong and putting it "on display" for all mankind.

lol - I couldn't help it I fell into the trap!
I repteated a wtong! and I put it on display - lol
I'm gonna go to hell for it - pray for me

Ozziecynic
01-06-2005, 04:52 AM
Daniel:
You brought up a point that I want all to consider.

Who do think is the meek of the earth? Who is the most despised, trashed, forgotten, poor, used, group of people on earth?

Well just think of the obvious those in the third world those in first or second world that are weak or on welfare. They are clearly meek they are also extremely discrminated against groups in our winner takes all market driven world system as one or two poster have proved to me here with their own callous and self centred attitudes!.

And getting through the eye of the needle. As a point of discussion; how do we do that? Can Americans do that?

Lets just wait and see!
But listening to some posters here you would think it was welfare recipients and the poor that were evil not the other way round!.Clearly some people are already misguided and sucked in by the market liberal dogma. Obviously their own cushy lifstyles are not worth sacrificing even when they are probly surplus to sustainable requirements of us all! :-?

Daniel
01-06-2005, 03:25 PM
Mr. Cynic,

Im glad you brought this back up. The meek of the world don't have the same oportunity that most of us lily white Americans have. We have options, we can afford the Uniherdity, we can obtain a loan, we can walk into a job interview with a fair chance, we can buy healthier food, our parents can leave us with an inheritance. The meek have none of that. They work for us and are left with our table scraps.

And no I don't believe most Americans will be able to get through the Eye of the Needle. Most of us are only looking out for ourselves, Where is my next dollar coming from? Not what can I do for God but what can I do for me, To hell with the rest of the world!

I've said this before but, we Americans are responsible for more Death and Destruction across the face of the Globe than any other group of people. The British before us and the Romans(?) before that. We are a Christian nation and that cannot be denied. Shame on us and our Religion. We are guilty and we have a Collective Karma to deal with. I'm sick of this attitude that this Christian American nation is holier than thou, and that everything we do is good for the rest of the world. Our Judgement is coming.

Repair your personal Karma and if your lucky enough you'll be able to step aside of Armageddon.

nohope187
01-10-2005, 08:07 PM
If Amerika really started out as a Christian nation which it did not, it would have had Jesus Christ proclaimed all over the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and Bill of Rights. So unlike what most believe, Amerika has always been secular. Also, remember the devil has dominion of the world or do you not remember him tempting Christ saying, "Bow down to me and all the nations of the world will be yours."? :-P

freeman
01-10-2005, 08:25 PM
If Amerika really started out as a Christian nation which it did not, it would have had Jesus Christ proclaimed all over the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

That is a real dilemma that I still haven't completely worked out in my own mind.
Certainly there is a large body of evidence to indicate that many of the founding fathers were freemasonic monotheists (euphimsim for Satanism), yet many Christian clergymen make compelling arguments to the contrary.
My own research has indicated that many of the founding fathers turned away from Freemasonry later in their lives (such as Washington), and others like John Quincy Adams spoke out vehemently against it after the Morgan incident, yet it remains difficult to know exactly what their spiritual mindset was at the time they drafted the constitution.

nohope187
01-10-2005, 08:51 PM
Try seeing it this way; being that most of the founding fathers were freemasons and rosicrucians, they were blind followers doing as they were told by their chain of command. People like Washington woke up too late, finding out he was puppeted like a marrionette makes a weak attempt at making ammends by trying to warn the sheeple only to have his words fall on deaf ears as the damage has already been done and once the road of perdition has already been travelled half-way, there's no turning back. Reason why I say this is because you know the Articles of Confederation were a superior document to the Constitution. The Bill of Rights was just special toilet paper to make the Anti-Feds feel happy. :-P

billiard
01-10-2005, 11:34 PM
america was founded as a christian nation . not officially ,with dogma as part of founding documents,such as anglican church the official church of england, but the PEOPLE were surely predominantly christian .the founders were ,for the most part,christian as well. the statement about freemasonry is irrelevant.there are and have always been christian freemasons.the vast majority of them are nominal members that gather at their meetings on a purely social basis and many are involveed in philanthropic causes such as shriners childrens hospitals .it is not a satanic organization,merely secular.

as for those who would say "you can't legislate morality" i say you can't legislate anything else.right and wrong ,acceptable and unacceptable, lawful and unlawful. all the same .the basis for our body of law is the bible.thou shalt not kill,steal,bear false witness(libel)etc -that's in the bible,is it not?

missionary work has been carried on around the globe and not the convert-seeking type but the type that ministers to the needs of people . food,medical attention,and just caring for them . south america,africa,asia etc for over 100 years.this is all on record-undeniable. people-american people-in american churches- paid for that. when the tsunami devastated asia last week, who was up front delivering basic necessities? according to AP release it was operation blessing,paid for by CBN (pat robertson-founder)donations from thousands of selfish american christians. this country isn't christian the way saudi arabia and iran are muslim,under penalty of death but since it's founding,america has always been a christian nation .

Daniel
01-11-2005, 04:28 AM
Yes I believe it is undeniable that we are a Christian Nation. Billiard states this very well.

Today we are still predominatly a Christian nation. Who is the minister that stands before Congress to give the prayer? He is certainly not a Muslim, nor a Jew, nor Hindu, He is Christian! And can anyone name a President that wasn't a Christian? If anyone states that we are not a Christian nation, than I ask what are we?

freeman
01-11-2005, 04:42 AM
the statement about freemasonry is irrelevant.there are and have always been christian freemasons.the vast majority of them are nominal members that gather at their meetings on a purely social basis and many are involveed in philanthropic causes such as shriners childrens hospitals .it is not a satanic organization,merely secular.

Oh, no, no, no.
There are freemasons who THINK they can still be Christians, even though they violated Christ's own teachings by taking their blood oath. There are freemasons who THINK they just belong to a social group that justifies itself through an all too flimsy association with charitable causes, but the truth is that they are all tools of the devil himself. There are even freemasons who try not to even THINK at all, because they're just along for the ride.
But the plain, bald truth is that anyone who would join a group that not only espouses occult, pagan teachings even in its most basic ceremonies and operates with a secret agenda of favoritism and special privileges exchanged amongst its members (translation:RACKETEERING, LIKE THE MAFIA) is no innocent lamb. These are people who are seeking out their own Faustian bargain, people who are overwhelmed with the vain and materialistic considerations of this world. One foot over the line is all the devil needs to drag someone into hell, and freemasonry provides him with that toehold.
I'm sorry if that sounds harsh, but I know these people. I REALLY know them. They have hurt myself and my family innumerable times, just because we are decent God-fearing Christians who won't join up with them.
You need to go back to the drawing board and find some real, impartial sources of info on this, billiard, and not just the word of your father, who is obligated to lie -- even to you -- about the secrets of Freemasonry by "virtue" of his blood oath.

nohope187
01-11-2005, 09:08 PM
Reiterating what I said earlier, Christianity may have been "popular in Amerika's beginnings" but, has always been secular. The elite like to call Amerika a Christian nation so the rest of the world will hate Christianity in association with Amerika's nation building efforts. Someone please tell me I'm not the only one who gets this. :-P

eddie
01-12-2005, 03:13 AM
imho;amerika is a christian nation.thing is,satanism is within christianity.
the other thing is;almost all the denominations say the jesus was a jew.that really helps the zionists.
amerika is just doing the dirty work for this minority group/religion.all preplanned imho. :-)