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View Full Version : Brazil rejects ban on guns - Huge NWO Setback


Saturnino
10-25-2005, 05:30 AM
People are not stupid ! The whole thing was prepared for the ban to be approved, with all the TV stars and lefties backing it up. But the people saw that this would only disarm the honest citizens and that they should not trust the government. The Illuminati must be very upset with Brazil.





Brazil rejects ban on gun sales

BBC | October 23 2005

Partial results in a referendum show a clear majority of Brazilians have voted against a ban on gun sales.

With 90% of the votes counted, 64% rejected the ban and only 36% wanted firearm sales to the public outlawed.

The proposal to ban gun sales was backed by the government and the United Nations, in a country where there were 36,000 gun-related deaths last year.

The "No" camp made a late surge, saying a ban would leave Brazilians defenceless against armed criminals.

Guns kill one person in Brazil roughly every 15 minutes, giving it the world's highest death toll from firearms.

The UN says guns are the biggest cause of death among young people in the country, leading to more violent deaths than seen in many war zones.

'No confidence'

Anti-gun campaigners said the swing away from a "Yes" vote was the result of people's desire to protest against the government's security policy.

"We didn't lose because Brazilians like guns. We lost because people don't have confidence in the government or the police," Denis Mizne, of anti-violence group Sou da Paz, told Reuters news agency.

They also accused gun makers and lobby groups such as the US National Rifle Association (NRA) of manipulating people's fears.

But politician Alberto Fraga, who led the congressional lobby against the ban, said opposition was "a reaction to the attempt to take a right away from the citizen".

The referendum has been watched closely by other countries where gun-ownership is under debate.

In Washington, an NRA spokesman called the result "a victory for freedom".

Millions of guns

The BBC's Steve Kingstone in Sao Paulo says voting - compulsory for Brazilians - was brisk throughout the day.

Those most likely to vote for the ban were thought to be women and poorer Brazilians, while the strongest opposition came from middle-class men, he says.

Under existing laws, any Brazilian over 25 can buy a gun, provided they pass background checks.

The referendum rounds off a series of campaigns run by the government of President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva to cut down on gun crime.

Penalties for unlawfully carrying a gun have been increased and money offered to people who surrender their weapons in amnesties.

The proposal to ban firearms initially had strong public support.

But opinion polls in recent days showed this backing had weakened dramatically as campaigns against the ban got off the ground.

LaDominio
10-25-2005, 06:50 AM
Well, that puts Brazil in my goodbook!

Jimbo
10-25-2005, 07:02 AM
Brazilians Reject Gun Ban - :-o :-o :-o

Brazilians Reject Gun Ban - P1
"Brazilians soundly rejected a proposal to ban gun sales in a national referendum that stirred a fierce debate in a country with one of the world's highest gun death rates."
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/23/world/main965352.shtml

Brazilians Reject Gun Ban - P2
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/10/23/world/main965352_page2.shtml

Guns In America - Interactive
http://cbsnews.com/htdocs/guns_in_america/html/framesource.html
8-)

wolff
10-25-2005, 07:03 AM
"We lost because people don't have confidence in the government or the police,"

Just another example of Free Minded people, Not peasant's... Congrat's to all Brazilian's !

"Stay Armed - Stay Free"

truebeliever
10-25-2005, 07:19 AM
I take it Brazil and Oz are the 2 NUMBER ONE places for the NWO "hunker down".

It's the bronzed beach boyz methinks.

Wazza matter Barron...afraid of a few pop guns?

Barbara
10-29-2005, 08:48 PM
Weak-minded women and thugs who want to rob you once you have lost your right to keep and bear arms no doubt accounted for most if not all the pro-ban votes.

I would have loved to tell those women what a great equalizer a 9mm is at 20 paces, give or take. There is a bastard out there somewhere today who is walking around with a very pronounced limp because I blew his kneecap off. My aim was off, I was aiming about 2 feet higher.

Good on Brazil for having MEN who know that THEY are the last line of defense for themselves and their famiilies. Remember New Orleans where the police ran away when the poop hit the fan?

Sadly, most Americans only envision having to use guns against the military one day. They should live so long through the chaos that will preceed total martial law. It won't just be here, either. It will be all over.

Buy them now, while you still can. I suggest 9mm because that is the closest interchangable calibre to UN and NATO rounds or at least it used to be. If you run low on ammo you can always pick up what they "drop."

:-x

Shannow
10-29-2005, 09:46 PM
I was amazed when the normally complicit media had articles like this (http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/gun-laws-fall-short-in-war-on-crime/2005/10/28/1130400366681.html) in yesterday's papers.
Gun ownership is rising and there is no definitive evidence that a decade of restrictive firearms laws has done anything to reduce weapon-related crime, according to NSW's top criminal statistician.

The latest figures show a renaissance in firearm ownership in the state - a 25 per cent increase in three years. And the head of the Bureau of Crime Statistics and Research, Don Weatherburn, said falls in armed robberies and abductions in NSW in the past few years had more to do with the heroin drought and good policing than firearms legislation.

Even falls in the homicide rate, which have been steady, began long before the gun law debate provoked by the Port Arthur massacre in 1996.

Nationwide, the proportion of robberies involving weapons is the same as it was in 1996, while the proportion of abductions involving weapons is higher, the latest Australian Bureau of Statistics fiures reveal. They show a mixed result in firearms-related offences since the mid-1990s. There has been a fall in firearms murders (from 32 to 13 per cent) but a rise (19 to 23 per cent) in attempted murders involving guns.

"I would need to see more convincing evidence than there is to be able to say that gun laws have had any effect," Dr Weatherburn said. "The best that could be said for the tougher laws is there has been no other mass killing using firearms [since Port Arthur].

"There has been a drop in firearm-related crime, particularly in homicide, but it began long before the new laws and has continued on afterwards. I don't think anyone really understands why. A lot of people assume that the tougher laws did it, but I would need more specific, convincing evidence …

"There has been a more specific … problem with handguns, which rose up quite rapidly and then declined. The decline appears to have more to do with the arrest of those responsible than the new laws. As soon as the heroin shortage hit, the armed robbery rate came down. I don't think it was anything to do with the tougher firearm laws."

The Shooters Party MP John Tingle agrees with this analysis but has decided to retire from politics next April because he is frustrated in his attempts to prevent further restrictions, even though the number of registered guns in NSW has jumped from 516,468 to 648,369 since 2002.

"If the laws had worked there would be much less illegal gun crime … we are continuing this perception that if you tighten firearm laws you are going to control firearm crime, even though the opposite is true. Restrictive laws against legitimate ownership and use do nothing to stop gun-related crime because only law-abiding citizens will adhere to laws."

The Police Commissioner, Ken Moroney, supports the laws irrespective of the statistics. "I don't think the laws have been designed to eliminate every firearm off the face of the Earth … but it has achieved proper registration, storage and more effective licensing. These measures have all been successful and John Tingle's role should be acknowledged … he is a man of objectivity and fairness. He hasn't been an advocate for advocacy sake."

Note the Police Commissioner at the end.

I'd love to see the stats regarding ammunition sales in Australia since 1996.

I was happy putting 50 rounds a year through my .22 before I was forced to join a club to "prove my genuine reason".

So I joined.

Pretty soon, I was putting 5,000 rounds a year through the rifle, and bought another two for long distance competition and cowboy type events respectively.

My partner got her licence and her own rifle as well. At least 30 people in our club (50%) are in exactly the same boat

Ammunition sales would paint a very interesting picture.

truebeliever
10-29-2005, 10:01 PM
I wonder if the Yanks know how ridiculous our gun laws are?

You must prove yourself worthy of Catholic sainthood to get one and then you are limited to 7 round magazines for handguns! Semi auto .22 rifle popguns are out...even for farmers! Pump action shotguns banned...etc...

However, i am for registration and the laws whereby if you get a AVO against you the coppers come straight round and get your guns. I'm sorry. I dont believe in open slather...you have to have a drivers licence.

Amazingly, once Johnny declared he would not allow a "gun culture" to form in this country the local state governments gave licences for "gun ranges" in the suburbs to open up where any idiot can come in and fire ANY handgun they want...as you do when you dont want to encourage a gun culture.

Also, and i speak from direct experience, the black market for guns has BOOMED! Right now I could reach over to the phone and order a Glock or Beretta with 50 rounds. Brand new. In the box.

There is not a professional criminal out their who cannot get their hands on a handgun.

However, i cannot legally get one because i have an unrelated criminal record with absoloutly no history of violence.

Good on Brazil for sticking it to them anyway. With the place the way it is i'd be wanting a handgun too. %99 of crims will not use one if they know their intended victim is packing.

It would also help as the above aritcle mentions that drug use be wiped out. LITERALLY %90 of ALL crime would end. But we could'nt have that could we.

Barbara
10-29-2005, 10:09 PM
Shannow, it just chokes the MSM to have to face facts that crime goes down when citizens are armed. THAT IS A FACT. We've seen it proven in state after state here.

Yes, it shows that the citizenry has little to no confidence in the police to protect them and they are RIGHT.

Policemen don't need guns in their cruisers, all they need are mops and buckets. By the time they arrive people are lying in puddles of blood and the assailant(s) are long gone.

Two slogans come to mind:

The best defense is a good offense.

When guns are outlawed only outlaws
will have guns.

Shannow
10-29-2005, 10:12 PM
re the black market in guns.

I spent my teenage years in ACT, which had full registration etc forever.

Once my Sainthood was established, and I had my licence, I honestly thought that their laws were well thought out and sensible (still think that they WERE, but now to have a firearm in a vehicle in the ACT it almost needs to be welded to the chassis).

My eyes were well and truly opened, when I saw firsthand how many, and of what, illegal firearms are circulating on the black market.

And there's no effort to stop it.

truebeliever
10-29-2005, 11:12 PM
...but now to have a firearm in a vehicle in the ACT it almost needs to be welded to the chassis.

Not if you're Troy McCanty, head man of the Coffin Cheaters. You just tell the judge..."i dunno you'r Honour. Lotsa people use the car. Not my gun".

Case dismissed!

You may go about you'r innocent business Mr McCanty...

Khopesh
10-30-2005, 05:00 AM
When I was in Switzerland it wasnt unusual to see people walking around with full auto military firearms with them slung going about their day to day business.
Everyone there has to do military service and if they dont they have to leave the country, its a condition of citizenship.
They also have to keep this weapon and a box of ammo in their personal residences ready to use, they also have to practice with it regularly.

Switzerland has one of the lowest crime rates in the world, they are also virtually imperviouse to invasion.
The Swiss also practice as a part of their democracy CIR or Citizens Initiated Referenda, basicly if a certain percentage of the population decides an issue needs voting on or if they disagree with a goverment decision as little as 10 000 people sign a petition and the entire country is obligated to vote on it.

Result a totalitarianism free zone.

As chairman Mao once said "power grows from the barrel of a gun" therefore in a democracy guns belong in the hands of the people.

As for the firearms legislation here in good old Oz the American people should take carefull note because its heading your way, a massacere supposedly caused by a lone lunatic was the pretext the government used to basicly blanket ban every law abideing citizen.
The coalition against gun controll headed up by a coward who hid behind a tree while his wife and childeren were shot in the said massacere and a loony feminazi Rebecca Peters failed to get one fact straight whilst bombarding the shocked Australian public in the immediate aftermath of the event.
All legitimate debate was stiffled as the government steamrolled the new legislation through almost immediatly.

The black market in firearms mostly handguns has boomed helped by the fact that the New South Wales police force "lost" a 40 foot container of unmarked Glock .40s off the docks in Sydney.
100 000 unmarked Glocks are kicking around the suburbs somewhere, all the paperwork was gone as well suggesting an inside job.

Indeed we live in interesting times.

wolff
10-31-2005, 07:28 AM
Truebeliever,
You are a complete fool if you honestly think firearms registration is a positive step for the law abiding citizens of any country. The criminals who aquire firearms for the purpose of crime do not buy them at the gun store.
You have really been conditioned - Why on earth should you be required to have a drivers license in order to protect you and your's ???

When guns are outlawed - Only outlaws will have guns...

Bouncer
10-31-2005, 11:07 AM
Guns are a cultural item, and often go with the territory. I always laugh when people mention the Swiss and their guns, no offence. Those are Swiss army guns, mate. It's for soldiers, not OG's.
There are however many stories of salvation by magnum, for instance check magazines such as Guns & Ammo for anecdotes.
My point is that for me to have a gun it would be for self defence only, and not only did I not grow up with guns in the house I cannot think of one case in my whole life when brandishing a gun would have made a difference in my safety.
Check your mental safety before you disengage your firing safety . . .

truebeliever
10-31-2005, 06:14 PM
Dear WOLFY,

I thought i was pretty clear.

If you had'nt noticed, firearms are quite dangerous and it should be compulsory for them to be registered and stored in strict safety.

A strict background on mental health and criminal history should then take place as does.

Compulsory attendance (as happens) at a gun club should be enforced and courses on gun safety etc...kept up to date.

No idiot on a whim should be able to waltz into a gun store and buy anything they damn well please.

Cars are also extremely dangerous. As a former R.N i saw their carnage first hand. At last count 1200 a year killed. We prove our competence via a licence to drive them. To practice as an R.N i attended University for 3 years...and gained a "license".

I have NO problem with the "local" State beauracracy keeping records. I have no problem with the coppers taking someones guns after an restraining order is issued.

With great power comes great responsability.

My point of view is based PURELY on the current practical world we live in and not some Libertarian dream world which will probably never come to fruition.

I do not call for a ban on guns or even a gun culture. I like guns. In fact i could probably go toe toe with anyone on the particulars of weapons and ballistics.

The registration of firearms is not a bad thing. Howards laws of course are a gigantic joke.

I personally believe if you show you are a responsable gun owner you should be allowed to have any gun you want kept in strict conditions.

As for the outlaws and their illegal guns. I know about it first hand. Blame Howard. You can also blame the "illegal fishermen" who bring alot in.

I thought that over the horizen radar could measure wave heights? Apparently wooden boats and high speed fibreglass models have built in stealth.

wolff
11-01-2005, 06:21 AM
(truebeliever)
"The registration of firearms is not a bad thing"

As I said, You are a fool. You have been dooped by the anti-gun societal engineer's. I'm glad you are free to express your opinion but I wonder what cause's such a view point as it certainly seem's out of place on this topic and thread. Could it be you are a disrupter ?

truebeliever
11-01-2005, 07:44 AM
As I said, You are a fool. You have been dooped by the anti-gun societal engineer's.

There's ya cocksuckers argument. As in ...there is none.

I am simply a disrupter?

Dont fucking insult me idiot.

Tell me why you think ANYONE, at ALL times, should have INSTANT access to firearms whenever they feel like it...or is your cock simply small?

"Is ya cock simply small" is the level of your argument. I'm just lowering myself.

Again, make a detailed point of why you think there should be no registration of firearms and therefore ANYONE at ANY time can get one WHENEVER they feel like it.

As someone who knows the underworld in Oz, I assure you that it aint bank robbers that are the problem. I have NO fear of professional criminals and guns. It is those "family men" and general small cocked weasels who do most of the killing here in Oz...Port Arthur excepted. A Globalist put job.

Can you grasp this? Or are you the extremist and incredibly brain washed. Capable of only extremist "left/right" arguments? I am not calling for law abiding citizens to not have guns. I am calling for registration so that ONLY law abiding citizens can have guns who can prove they are responsable enough to have one, or ten. Again...read my post carefully...if you can read...or you may well be just a conditioned parrot which you certainly sound.

I would prefer my medical staff well trained and able to prove their proficiency to the task. Like wise with the drug fucked fools getting around, I would like similar constraints on the ownership of firearms.

State run and with no Federal access without warrent.

We need rules to live in the current world we live in. When the Libertarian boys dream comes true you can have all the guns you want to play with.

While drug fucked middle class men are getting abandoned by their wives I want strict enforcement of gun laws...NOT draconian laws that take away guns from responsible owners as has been put in by our Prime minister John Howard. Just sensible gun laws, just like a sensible test to drive a car. Some people should'nt be allowed to drive cars and some people should'nt be allowed within 10 feet of a high powered weapon capable of killing easily at distance.

Tell me you get it.

You can disagree by all means but at least read the post carefully. I know Queenslanders and Americans have trouble reading at times but i'm sure you will do your best.

When guns are outlawed - Only outlaws will have guns...

Again my non reading extremist friend...i am calling for registration...N-O-T outlawing of gun ownership by resonsible citizens. Can you tell the difference between these subjects? Or are YOU the extremist?

Back to Stormfront for you Herr Wolf.

wolff
11-01-2005, 02:39 PM
"There's ya cocksuckers argument. As in ...there is none.
I am simply a disrupter?
"Dont fucking insult me idiot."

What a concise and well thought-out reply.
And you call me an idiot ? It's funny how the sheeple who pretend to be so intelligent and well educated are so easy to get at. With that much frustration built up - You are the kind of person who should NOT own a gun.

Let's see who can READ now asshole.

Gary Mauser, Professor
Simon Fraser University, Nov. 27th 2003
Australia

The Australian government made sweeping changes to the firearms legislation in 1997. However, the total homicide rate, after having remained basically flat from 1995 to 2001, has now begun climbing again. While violent crime is decreasing in the United States, it is increasing in Australia. Over the past six years, the overall rate of violent crime in Australia has been on the rise – for example, armed robberies have jumped 166 percent nationwide.

The confiscation and destruction of legally owned firearms has cost Australian taxpayers at least $500 million. The cost of the police services bureaucracy, including the costly infrastructure of the gun registration system, has increased by $200 million since 1997.

“And for what?” asks Mauser. “There has been no visible impact on violent crime. It is impossible to justify such a massive amount of the taxpayers’ money for no decrease in crime. For that kind of tax money, the police could have had more patrol cars, shorter shifts, or better equipment.”


Yep, gun registration really paid off in your homeland didn't it Truebeliever ?

Gun registration is a prelude to confiscation, PERIOD ! If you can't see that, Again I say- YOU ARE A FOOL !!!!!!!!!

truebeliever
11-01-2005, 06:35 PM
Now listen carefully...unlike the Professors in their Ivory Towers in Uni land I actually know how the streets work.

The crime rate and homicide rate is CLIMBING due to 2 things...

1. The HUGE increase in consumption of Amphetamine - ESPECIALLY Crystal Methamphetamine. This is a simple fact known by anyone in Law Enforcement or working in a Emergency department. I repeat...a s-i-m-p-l-e f-a-c-t. Go down and ask your local copper what is driving the crime rate. Where there is meth dealing you find crime! Especially violent crime.

2. The growing monster of mental health. Particularly depression.

Amphetamine is a cancer. It must be wiped out...there goes %90 of your crime. Especially violent.

I also had many simple points in my post. You have addressed none except for the blanket response of the local yokels that if they BAN guns...blah blah blah. That is a seperate issue completely. And i would be out in the streets fighting that one.

You make the automatic assumption that with the simple prudent act of calling for the registration of firearms that the sky will fall down. I will tell you that ANY central database is bad but let me let you in on something...we are not currently living in the Libertarian dream world where we run through the fields free as the birdies...we live in a jungle...and i happen to like rules and regulations that ensure i can walk down the street relatively free from harm. Imagine your world with the current drug psychosis epidemic! With every tosser armed to the teeth and his monthly binge on the Meth! God help us!

So get back to reality...where we actually live now. I then suggest you educate yourself on the political process and join it. Only then, with the political process in the hands of the people will things change. (I shant be holding my breath).

Everyone owning a gun will not stop the march of the Globalist Police State. It will in fact speed it up because the average Yank slob will NEVER use it, because like ALL westerners when push comes to shove he'll capitulate - because he is a fat slob coward scared of losing his widgets.

As a further note...if you look it up, you'll find the cases of blokes blowing away their wives and friends with shot guns and .22 rifle's has PLUMMETED! These are the people who scare me. Not the freaked out meth heads robbing a bank. And i want STRICT enforcement of AVO's, especially where firearms are concerned.

I suggest you stop being an "extremist" and get a little smart with the issue and dont accuse people of being "idiots" when you ownly have the same "blah, blah" response you accuse me of. You are as bad as the Feminazi idiot anti gun lobby with your own selective crap.

As someone who knows research scientists and Clinical Psychologists I suggest you take ALL of their writing as bullshit and work it out for yourself.

Saturnino
11-01-2005, 06:50 PM
I personnaly agree with TB. Gun ownership will not prevent the Gestapo from throwing a grenade in your house. On the contrary, those who shoot will be the first to be arrested or killed, a la Waco. The armed militia resistance is a fantasy of Americans. The tanks would just roll over them like they did in Tianamen square. Ask Norman Olson, the commander of the Michigan militia, and a friend of mine, and he will tell you that people prefer to stay home watching TV than to train. The militia is dissapearing.
Also, a gun is not for everybody. Even though I used to be in shooting competitions, I don't have a gun anymore. Never been robbed in my life and live in a condo where it is almost impossible for a robber to enter. But if I had a house, I would buy one.
What made me vote against the ban was the fact that I despise the idiots in the government who want to tell us that they know how we should live our lives better than we do. Morons who wanted to disarm the good folks while letting the criminals buy their guns thru the border inflow from Paraguay.
Also, the fact that it was a big rehearsal of social control...if they could pass this stupid law with the help of their lefty TV stars, they could pass any law. Next would be abortion, euthanasia, homo marriages, etc. Now they will have to think twice.

truebeliever
11-01-2005, 07:02 PM
I agree!

I congratulate the people of Brazil. They threw out a RIDICULOUS law because it would have left them vulnerable to the MILLIONS of guns on the street.

SAT, do you have a problem with "registration". That is, having your mental health and criminal record checked out? I mean, i would prefer we have none of this, but given the IMMEDIATE situation we ACTUALLY live in?

My fear is the casual idiot in Oz who will think it cool to have a gun which he does not need. After a nice binge on his "Middle Class Meth" and after his girlfriend leaves him...yeh great.

Saturnino
11-01-2005, 07:18 PM
I think you had to be over 30 to have a gun. I know idiots who would buy a gun only to show to another driver if they thought they were cut in traffic.
Yes, people should have the right to have guns, but if you screw up, you had to pay double. I mean, it is really coward to point a gun to someone unarmed in traffic, as I have seen people do, just to show they are macho. But if you shoot a robber or a rapist, you are doing a lawful thing. And to have any accountability, you need registration.

wolff
11-10-2005, 02:13 PM
I just Cannot believe how much you all have allowed your brains to be cropped !!! What Law are any of you baseing this issue on - Natural law or Man's law ? "Gun Registration" Whether you believe will lead to confiscation or not, Is a simple act of Government oppression. There is nothing in the second ammendment about registration of arm's .... Maybe if all gun's didn't need to be registered, There wouldn't be so many Meth Head's running around. But then the CIA wouldn't like that would they ? I understand all the opposition from the austra-aliens since you didn't have the Kahoonah's to ensure your own right to Keep and Bear.... And you call American's lazy -

Bouncer
11-10-2005, 02:55 PM
Gun registration is political and has a practical side, also. Car registration is also a prelude to confiscation, or impoundment, but only when its use is in violation of the law. We are not in total anarchy yet, mate. It would be better for a qualification and registration process for anything dangerous, from your rice-burner to the a-bomb itself.

wolff
11-10-2005, 04:32 PM
"Car registration is also a prelude to confiscation, or impoundment, but only when its use is in violation of the law."

EXACTLY - And just who decides what weapon's or (car's) are in violation of the law - Certainly Not you and I..... When the law-makers decide that they can't persuade the sheep to "pen-up" anymore, They will want to know who owns what.
And they will laugh and laugh at us for giving them the tool's for our own demise....

truebeliever
11-10-2005, 05:19 PM
COME ON!

What a bunch of ABSTRACT...removed from reality WANK from both BOUNCER and WOLFF.

As an Registered Nurse picking up the fucking peices, I love it when those far too immersed in books and rhetoric wank on about the detailed machinations of the State and the PERFECT world we should be living in.

Rice burners?

BOUNCER you dissapoint me that you cant tell the real life difference between the two or is it just a throwaway line?

You're arguments are EXTREMIST. They are in the black and white catagory. We do not live in the Libertarian Utopia we all hope for. We live in a jungle which requires rules. Rules that should be in the hands of the people and also limited by the people. The people do not wish to participate and we get tyrranny.

Kudo's too the Brazilians who took it in their hands and shoved it back in the Globalists face.

You can have all the damn guns you want and I encourage you to fire them at the appropriate time...whenever that is. But in the end they will roll over you like they did the poor bastards in Fallugah.

Your guns will mean nothing, but if it makes you feel better...

For you two and many others their is no "reasonable" set of rules for living. Just the comforting black and white of an abstract argument.

Again, registering your fire arm is not a bad thing in the hands of local law enforcement. Even the fucking gangsters take the guns off their doped up mates when they get out of control.

It is NOT the crims that scare me. It's the depressed father who's ex-wife just took the kids. It's the "Meth'd" up weekend warrior post binge on the downer who, in your world, walzted in on a whim the day before and brought a Glock coz he thought it would be cool. He just shot 4 people in a psychotic haze from the top quality "Crystal Meth" from Asia.

I truly now consider you both quite insane and FAR removed from reality.

To honestly claim as you do, that ANYONE should at ANY time, have access to weapons simply astounds me. You both sure as hell have NO idea of the street and what is going on their on a daily basis outside you'r t.v sets.

As for the comment on the Oz Kahonas...matey, it's the Oz SAS constantly rescuing you'r INEPT armed forces in Afghanistan and Iraq so dont get too cocky. America is STILL the laughing stock of the world of the armed forces. Even you'r own Gunnary SRGT's in East Timor dont want to go back to the Marines after serving with Oz forces.

The motto of the American Armed Forces is still, as it ALWAYS has been..."Fire and Sitdown, call in the artillary/airforce - order some ice cream". A new add on can be..."Video the action for Ogrish".

In closing, when the perfect world arrives we can have whatever toys we want. But when it arrives we wont want them. We'll be too busy living.

I dont want to live in "their" world and i CERTAINLY dont want to live in "yours".

hamstertamer
11-10-2005, 10:43 PM
truebeliever,

How will registering guns prevent people from snapping and killing people. Registered guns kill just the same.

BTW depressed people are suicidal not homocidal, from what I've been told.

Saturnino
11-11-2005, 04:53 AM
San Francisco just banned hand guns.

wolff
11-14-2005, 07:59 AM
Truebeliever,
If I really thought the opinion of a Self-Righteous, Arrogant Lesbian was relevant, I would reply to your ranting's in detail. You come off as an overeducated Dolt. So acceptable today is the lack of Common Sense.
A sad commentary on the world's education system.
You don't even realize how you are being played.
I seriously Doubt you are more educated in much of this subject matter than I. It could be that YOU believe YOU are "street smart" as YOU so often point out, I highly doubt it. Being an R.N. (even in the worst E.R.) does not qualify you as street smart, But if thinking that help's you feel worldly - So be it.
Just continue being the perfect Patsy, Fence Sitter, unwitting player ..... Pick one.

truebeliever
11-14-2005, 07:14 PM
Actually i was convicted of a commercial quantity of Dope in 2003 in what the 25 year veteran copper described as the best Hydro set up he had ever scene.

My fave gun is the Chinese SKK which i used to enjoy knocking small trees down with.

I have mixed with Italian Mafia Dons, military people of ALL persuasions, looked after sex workers, preists, doctors, lawyers, coppers. Had guns pulled on me and taken part in more street brawls than i can remember.

Any more questions?

Also, you are the proverbial "retail" cliche man. Me, a fence sitter? Sonny Jim, i have stood up and spoken out more than you can possibly imagine. You are the extremist end of the OTHER extremist end and it is people like you who give the ammunition to the Globalists.

Again, i am for people who have shown themselves responsible to have permission to own ANY gun they want. They should also have permission to carry one when they show the capacity to fire it in a public space...that takes intense training. So let the schools open up.

They should be registered by LOCAL law enforcement.

I do not want half wits waltszing into gun stores on a whim. The crims are a seperate issue.

How many bank robbers committed mass murder with guns?

Guns are dangerous fool. They are NOT a waffle iron though i'm sure i could kill someone with it given the motivation.

wolff
11-14-2005, 07:41 PM
(symptom of psychopathy)
4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

Nice Try Truebeliever...... Except for the fact that you aren't shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, or clever; Other than that, this might explain alot for you.

truebeliever
11-14-2005, 09:15 PM
(symptom of psychopathy)
4. PATHOLOGICAL LYING -- can be moderate or high; in moderate form, they will be shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, and clever; in extreme form, they will be deceptive, deceitful, underhanded, unscrupulous, manipulative, and dishonest.

Nice Try Truebeliever...... Except for the fact that you aren't shrewd, crafty, cunning, sly, or clever; Other than that, this might explain alot for you.

Spoken like a true extremist.

When you cannot argue and when you have met you're match...slander them.

You are of the Bolshevick/Zionist school, yes?

Annoying when you cant pigeon hole someone is'nt it? You see, unlike you, i can think for myself and do not need someone else writing my predictable rhetoric for me.

You are so predictable I could tell you what you had for breakfast.

Well, i guess I win again.

Next...

Saturnino
11-15-2005, 02:57 AM
TB a lesbian ?...ROFLOL !!! you should see a picture of the guy... :lol: :lol: :lol:

Bouncer
11-15-2005, 08:03 AM
I side with the training and registration route. Anyone who actually goes legit for a roscoe should take the whole course, and be evaluated on tactical skill as well as emotional stability, etc. What's your backstop? Will a supersonic round go through a brick wall?

For all those who get guns on the black market, go back to square one and get a real job.

freeman
11-15-2005, 10:30 AM
I side with the training and registration route. Anyone who actually goes legit for a roscoe should take the whole course, and be evaluated on tactical skill as well as emotional stability, etc.

Perhaps you're right, Bouncer. Maybe it's time I finally registered that backup piece I keep strapped on under my vestments...but in my defense, I pass through a lot of rough Presbyterian neighborhoods. 8-)

wolff
11-15-2005, 03:24 PM
Well then - What did I have for breakfast ?

You, Truebeliever are the simplest Nut to crack.
Another symptom of your ailment (in case you'd like to work on that one too) is thinking your intelligence is a little above the norm. Very predictable behavior and so easy to extract from you....

As far as winning an argument - There isn't one, You believe in gun registration and YOUR wrong..
No Argument from me.

wolff
11-15-2005, 03:35 PM
And since you are constantly accusing me of not supplying any fact's to back up my viewpoint, (which I did - pointing out the failure of gun registration in your own country no less)
Maybe you could share some legitimate statistics on how gun registration has had a positive effect on actual crime Anywhere at Anytime in history. I would love to see it. Please make it verifiable though. Obviously - Government reports don't count.

truebeliever
11-15-2005, 06:15 PM
And since you are constantly accusing me of not supplying any fact's to back up my viewpoint...

Hmmmm...i dont know about "constantly" accusing you. The fact is you simply dont. You just mouth the usual "co-co pops" response from the gun lobby to counter the "froot loop" bullshit from the other side. I prefer my breakfast of porridge, wheat bran, sliced banana and a little bit of cream with milk on top...just to take the edge of the heat.

I have explained it to you as simply as possible. You are in the grip of a demonic ideology which would bring complete chaos to the streets and alot of clapping from the control freak Globalists.

In your world...ANYONE and EVERYONE at ANY time can go grab a gun. Is that correct? Thus chaos on the streets would reign. You may gain a little satisfaction from blasting away at the local theif but I wonder if it would all be worth it?

Take the simple drivers licence. They may have turned it into a defacto I.D card but at it's base it is a simple point of reference to say that you have shown yourself capable of driving a motor vehicle. Are you saying that ANYONE at ANY time should drive a car? And what of the people who simply should not be behind the wheel? The repeat offender drunks etc? Do you have any idea how many die on the roads already? And how do you think it would go in this society without those regulations? Again, you are divorced from reality.

Maybe you could share some legitimate statistics on how gun registration has had a positive effect on actual crime Anywhere at Anytime in history. I would love to see it.

Geez mate, how about you giving some. You aint really up on "facts" of any description...just opinion based on your verbose parroting ability.

I tend to base it on my day to day practical experiences.

The vast majority of murders are done by family members on people they know. Mental illness including your basic "my wife left me and took the kids" depression is the big fear factor for me. Since the coppers have been strictly enforcing "Aprehended Violence Order" (restraining order) the family shootings and walking down your street firing as you go have virtually dissapeared. Dickheads cannot get a gun on a whim here anymore. If you break those orders you go to jail. I know, when I was their it was FULL of em. Very sobering.

Crime does not worry me. If some Meth head wants the banks money he can have it. I'll file my nails on the floor and make a few phone calls to arrange lunch while he's doing the stick up. When he leaves I'll go about my day. You want to kill that person and probably kill a few innocent people yourself with your John Wayne heroics. I am after practical soloutions to the day and age we live in NOW. Not the Libertarian land of tomorrow which may never come 'cept by the coming of Christ. For you carrying a gun is therapy...it makes you feel good. Maybe I'll let you off that one as you do live in the U.S...land of the gun and a government who pour the drugs in. A government that grows more gigantic on the back of social decay and disorder. Disorder thet YOU ultimately want to add too.

The answer is INFORMATION, INFORMATION, INFORMATION...and finally, INFORMATION.

They cannot kill all of us. They do not have enough heartless thugs to pull it off. Their ONLY weapon is problem, Reaction, Soloution. Do not add to it. If they wielded Ungodly power they would have locked us down long ago.

Ignorence is their accomplice. Want to change things? Then educate people on the corruption of the legal system. A well known motor cycle gang member was caught with a Glock under his car seat. Facing a jail term due to his history he simply said to the judge that many people used the car and it was'nt his. He walked. No problems. How? He paid $70,000 to the "White Shirts" (prosecuting coppers and detectives) who passed a share onto the Judge (Purple Circle-Freemasonic). Thanks for coming. And what of you and I? I assure you we would have been charged and found guilty. WITHOUT doubt. The system has worked like this for years. Those with cash and power walk. Amazingly we wank on about how the Asians are so corrupt. We in the West are NO better. Just more hidden. There is your problem. More fucking guns blazing away on the street will not help. When the time comes they will roll over you like a tank through a Normandy wheat field and no amount of firepower will save you.

Maybe you could share some legitimate statistics on how gun registration has had a positive effect on actual crime Anywhere at Anytime in history.

Again, i made myself clear in previous posts. I do not care about the crime. That can be solved immediately with the cessation of the use of drug dealing criminal informants and the ACTUAL application of the laws of money laundering to the banking and financial sector. This will only happen when enough people know how the "game" is played. Again, information.

With regards guns, I care about any dickhead waltszing in off the street so he can big note himself to his friends about his Berretta. It is the middle class twit off the street who scares me. The Meth head can rob as much money as he wants off the banks.

I would love to see it. Please make it verifiable though. Obviously - Government reports don't count.

I dont need statistics. I have practical experience of the problem.

You, Truebeliever are the simplest Nut to crack.

Really? Hammer away...

Another symptom of your ailment (in case you'd like to work on that one too) is thinking your intelligence is a little above the norm.

"Thinking"? No, i "know" my intelligence is well above the norm. I also have the benefit of cramming alot of experience into 35 years.

Very predictable behavior and so easy to extract from you....

Nay, i "ooze" it. No need to extract. I am not into false modesty nor bragging. My life is an open book. My answer will always be "Yes" - or "No" with accompanying footnotes. How about you?

As far as winning an argument - There isn't one, You believe in gun registration and YOUR wrong..

"YOUR" is spelt "YOU'RE". Dont be embaressed. I continually get "THEIR" and THERE" mixed up but RUSH keeps me inline. BTW...can you elaborate with some details with "you're" argument which you claim does not exist...

No Argument from me.

Correct.