PDA

View Full Version : Why must I convert???


marypopinz
12-08-2004, 11:15 AM
"I invite you to purify yourself from idolworship, devote yourself to God alone, that you may join God's kingdom on earth that is very soon to be established God willing."

Dear Lord,

A good meaning soul wrote mea message. To turn away from Jesus and towards Islam.

I'm going to make it real clear here. I have my own faith. Mine. It is what I believe. It is who I am. I believe in Jesus Christ. I don't know if he was "physically" the son of God, only Him Mary and God know that one.

I have faith that he was a divine messenger and a supernatural being in every sense of the word. By his faith in God, miracles occurred. He taught others howto believe in the possibility of miracles - good things happening without any sign of them coming; something completely unexplainable.

I know that just as God is my father in heaven, he is surely the father of Jesus in heaven. I also know that God runs the show. This is only the devil's playground because people are ignorant enough to place more faith in evil than in hope.

Don't ask me to turn away from my faith. I love God. Jesus led me to God as surely as Mohammed led you to God. I'm not asking you to drop your faith? I can appreciate it through my own faith. I am not threatened by the differences in our religions - they have both been corrupted by the leaders of our "churches" to one extreme or another.

I'm here to talk about what we have in common. The truth. The truth alone shall set us free. Understanding the truth is understanding God. Me and you are God's family whether you like it or not. I am your Christian sister. We have atheists in the family too! I adopted God as my father through faith just as surely as you did.

Remember not to judge, that God's job. If you believe you are speaking the truth, all the power to you. And don't ask me again to turn away from my brother, Jesus Christ, who showed me God's love.


Mary XXX

55132
12-08-2004, 08:14 PM
Marypoppinz,

WE have to stop the invasion of Islam into the Western World It will drag our civilization into the dirt. There's is a religion of penitance and of working your way into salvation. What ever good they expose they copied out of the bible. They are truly a heretic cult of Christianity.

Comparing Muhamed to Jesus is totaly ridiculus Jesus came in Love and offered his life to us.

I wish I could say more about Islam but as you know the could find me and try to kill me, its there way.

Christianity in terms offers salvation as a gift from God the only commanments are "Love your neighbor as if he where you? "Preach the gospel of salvation to all nations" "care for the orphans and widows" And all you got to do is accept Jesus as your savior and repent from your sins.

Of course there are good and bad folowers in any religion but Chritianity is a way of life of love, compassion.


Living under islam is like living with a policeman on your back all day and night. Living under real Christianity is freedom.

Next time one of them comes to you tell them to accept Jesus as lord and savior.


cheers

55132

marypopinz
12-08-2004, 09:47 PM
55132 what are you thinking?

Brother Bush says the christian God is the best and only God.

Do you know any Moslem people or Moslem families?
I do. Many good people. The percentage of good people I meet that are Moslem is much greater than the percentage of "Christian" people who believe it is their right to claim God for themselves.

God is everybody's God whether you like it or not.

"I wish I could say more about Islam but as you know the could find me and try to kill me, its there way."

What are you thinking man? Is the Osama Bogie man hiding under your bed or in your closet?

Why do Christian people feel it is their God given right to superiority of all nations under God. That is lunacy, illogical.

Do you believe the Moslem children who are being slaughtered in Iraq are going to hell? If so,I believe you need to question your faith. That is only my opinion. You can believe what you want and it's really not cool to play God and judge other people based on their faith... it's smells too close to home of hating someone for their skin color.

Ignorance is not bliss.
It is ignorance.

Peace
Mary XX

55132
12-08-2004, 10:10 PM
You are adding things that i did't say.

Only God is the judge of people. i am talking about culture and the effects of mutli culturalism, something which i do not believe in because its destructive for all parts.

If you re read you will see that I said that there are good and bad followers in any religion.

But before I continue I would like to say:

1- I think Bush sucks,he is a liar and a knieving thief

2- I think the war in Iran is a sham

3- I have the highest regrads for those Irakee muslims fighting against the invaders

You don't know to much about those islam zealots in Europe they are killing Europeans because they say that islam opreses women, Or They say something that is not to their liking about muhamed of there religion.

Did you know?

That If a muslim converts to any other religion he can be killed by there sharia law.

That It is punishable by death for in Muslim countrie to preach to muslims.

I agree with you that most of the muslims are kind and simple but don't let that blind you to the devastating effect they can have on western society. Starting with women,they are treated as almost nothing.

Last week in france a young muslim girl about 18 was killed by her familly because she refuseed to marry someone chosen for her, this is not an isolated account

And the list goes on and on if you don't think there is a culture clash you are living in la la land.

55132

marypopinz
12-08-2004, 10:26 PM
Oh dearie me.

I apologize if I added something you didn't say.

You really need to learn about the true nature of Islam. DiD you know that the French government also said that Moslem girls could not wear their scarves to school?

Their are fanatics in every religion. What about the Christian child with burn marks up her arms at 11 years old because she refused to submit to sexual abuse???

You are right, there is good and bad in everything, just like night and day. I understand how multiculturalism is set out to break apart nationalism and faith.

AND... the Moslem male is generally more man than most "Christian" males. He may be a pig, but at least he's not a perv. He may be dumb enough to Lord his male position over his partner in life, not unlike many a Christian male who beats his wife and... the family unit is sacred. It is the heart of Islam. Seems to me it is supposed to be the heart of Christianity. I could be wrong.

Didn't Christ come for everyone?

Mary XXX

Peace

55132
12-08-2004, 11:10 PM
Yes Christ came for everyone.

The problem is that us in the west have forgatten the Christian values we once had as individuals.

One hundred years ago our societies (muslim and Christian) where very alike in terms of morality

Sadly the west has forgone those values for materialistc ones that go aginst the grain of humane values. Even worse the west speciay the US is trying to impose those amoral, humanistic values where ever it sets foot, This has given rise and in my opinion rightly so to the rebellion of those who don't want to accept them.

Getting back to culture as I said before I don't belive in multiculturalism. Because in my opinion that Muslim culture and Western Culture cannot mix becase there is much that separate us in terms of or views of life and world.

That is not to say that there are many things in Muslim people, Hindu, Budist that are good.

Many things you here said about Chritians has nothing to do with Christianity.

Did you know that Revernd JIm Jones from the Jones town massacre was not a Christian nor was it a Christian Church? The powers that be want to destroy Christianity because its the only one that offers love as the answer and God as the savior.


I encourage you to read the bible you will be surprised of the many splendid things that it offers being Freedom the most spectacular.


I recomend you start at Gospels.


cheers

55132

Ahmad
12-09-2004, 05:57 AM
Peace be unto you marypopinz,

First i would like to say that i am not to force anybody into my religion (My Truth), i encourage everybody to find his or her truth and follow it but he must be 100% sure before following it.

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

However i believe that there is only one truth and one way to God. There are multiple paths to Satan though.

Why do you feel threatened when someone invites you to something ?! if you are really sure of your faith, you should be more confident than that i think.

I am not asking you to turn away from Jesus, on the contrary i am asking you to follow Jesus's true message and stop idolizing him, he was JUST a righteous human being like any other righteous human being. Please note that Satan uses the creatures to bind us in slavery and distract us from God.

The miracles that Jesus performed was from God, it was not from him. They were a test, Satan uses his miraculous birth and miracles (as well as the myth of crucifixion) to create a divinity in a mere mortal creature!

Please reflect on these two verses, It's a conversation between God and Jesus on the day of Judgment.

[5:116] God will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?' " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

[5:117] "I told them only what You commanded me to say, that: `You shall worship GOD, my Lord and your Lord.' I was a witness among them for as long as I lived with them. When You terminated my life on earth, You became the Watcher over them. You witness all things.

[5:118] "If You punish them, they are Your constituents. If You forgive them, You are The Dignified, The Wise."


I am telling you the absolute truth, if you won't listen, it's absolutely your right. You are totally free to believe in God+Jesus (a divine human being) or believe in God and follow Jesus's true message of God alone (as per the quoted verses).

I didn't point a gun at you, and force you to believe!, why is telling the truth threatening to anybody!. God's retribution is severe, God wants us to worship, implore and devote ourselves to Him alone, would you fall in Satan's trap of idolworship that millions of Christians and muslims fell in!?
Do you equate a weak creature (who needs God's provisions and support and is not self sustainable) to The Gracious who is supporting all the creatures in the Heavens and the Earth?

[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!

---------------------

Here is some of The Truth in the bible:

Jesus said: "My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me" [John 7:16]



-Jesus in the bible says:

"..Go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." [JOhn 20:17]


Jesus in Quran says:

"God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him ALONE. This is the right path." [Quran 3:51]




Trinity was established in the Nicene conference 325 years after Jesus's birth! it totally contradicts the Old Testament, it's the NWO paradigm (polytheism):

"Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is ONE" (Deut, 6:4)


------------------------

What i told you is THE TRUTH from your Lord, we should reverence God and worship Him ALONE if we really want salvation, no creature can help us beside God.
If you turn away i have delivered you the message of God, bear witness that i submit to Him ALONE.


[3:64] Say, "O followers of the scripture, let us come to a logical agreement between us and you: that we shall not worship except GOD; that we never set up any idols besides Him, nor set up any human beings as lords beside GOD." If they turn away, say, "Bear witness that we are submitters."


Ahmad Nishitoba
Messenger of God

Daniel
12-09-2004, 06:01 AM
Numbers,

Your judgement will come, In the mean time STOP insulting the people here or anywhere in life. You consistently tell people they are wrong and only you and your very narrow view of Christianity is right. I propose that people like you are the beginning for the rest of us questioning Christianity.

We see Christians all around and quite early in life start saying to ourselves "thats a christian? man, somethings wrong here cuz I don't want to be like that!"

55132
12-09-2004, 07:23 AM
Matypoppinz read this as much as think that Christianity is hate it has nothing like this:

Don't be lead into a dark tunnel

WOMEN IN ISLAM:

Tabari IX:113 “Allah permits you to shut them in separate rooms and to beat them, but not severely. If they abstain, they have the right to food and clothing. Treat women well for they are like domestic animals and they possess nothing themselves. Allah has made the enjoyment of their bodies lawful in his Qur’an.

Tabari I:280 “Allah said, ‘It is My obligation to make Eve bleed once every month as she made this tree bleed. I must also make Eve stupid, although I created her intelligent.’ Because Allah afflicted Eve, all of the women of this world menstruate and are stupid.”

Qur’an 4:3 “If you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly with orphans, marry women of your choice who seem good to you, two or three or four; but if you fear that you shall not be able to do justice (to so many), then only one, or (a slave) that you possess, that will be more suitable. And give the women their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, eat it with enjoyment, take it with right good cheer and absorb it (in your wealth).”
Qur’an 4:11

“Allah directs you in regard of your Children’s (inheritance): to the male, a portion equal to that of two females…. These are settled portions ordained by Allah.”

Bukhari:V1B22N28 “The Prophet said: ‘I was shown the Hell Fire and the majority of its dwellers were women who are disbelievers or ungrateful.’ When asked what they were ungrateful for, the Prophet answered, ‘All the favors done for them by their husbands.’”

Muslim:B1N142 “‘O womenfolk, you should ask for forgiveness for I saw you in bulk amongst the dwellers of Hell.’ A wise lady said: Why is it, Allah’s Apostle, that women comprise the bulk of the inhabitants of Hell? The Prophet observed: ‘You curse too much and are ungrateful to your spouses. You lack common sense, fail in religion and rob the wisdom of the wise.’ Upon this the woman remarked: What is wrong with our common sense? The Prophet replied, ‘Your lack of common sense can be determined from the fact that the evidence of two women is equal to one man. That is a proof.’”

Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]

Bukhari:V4B55N547 “The Prophet said, ‘But for the Israelis, meat would not decay, and if it were not for Eve, wives would never betray their husbands.’”

Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”

Bukhari:V4B52N143/V5B59N523 “When we reached Khaybar, Muhammad said that Allah had enabled him to conquer them. It was then that the beauty of Safiyah was described to him. Her husband had been killed, so Allah’s Apostle selected her for himself. He took her along with him till we reached a place called Sad where her menses were over and he took her for his wife, consummating his marriage to her, and forcing her to wear the veil.’”

Bukhari:V5B59N524 “The Muslims said among themselves, ‘Will Safiyah be one of the Prophet’s wives or just a lady captive and one of his possessions?’”

Ishaq:593 “From the captives of Hunayn, Allah’s Messenger gave [his son-in-law] Ali a slave girl called Baytab and he gave [future Caliph] Uthman a slave girl called Zaynab and [future Caliph] Umar another.”

Bukhari:V3B48N826 “The Prophet said, ‘Isn’t the witness of a woman equal to half of that of a man?’ The women said, ‘Yes.’ He said, ‘This is because of the deficiency of a woman’s mind.’”
Ishaq:584 “Tell the men with you who have wives: never trust a woman.”

Ishaq:185 “In hell I saw women hanging by their breasts. They had fathered bastards.”

Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands...”

Qur’an 24:34 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”

Ishaq:469 “The Apostle said, ‘Every wailing woman lies except those who wept for Sa’d.’”

Tabari VIII:62/Ishaq:496 “Ali [Muhammad’s adopted son, son-in-law, and future Caliph] said, ‘Prophet, women are plentiful. You can get a replacement, easily changing one for another.’”

Ishaq:496 “Ask the slave girl; she will tell you the truth.’ So the Apostle called Burayra to ask her. Ali got up and gave her a violent beating first, saying, ‘Tell the Apostle the truth.’”

Qur’an 24:1 “(This is) a surah which We have revealed and made obligatory and in which We have revealed clear communications that you may be mindful. For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”

Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.” [top] [toc] [quotes main]

Ahmad
12-09-2004, 07:25 AM
Peace 55132,

I have no desire to argue or attack anybody or even to claim that i am better than anybody, please know that before you read the following because i am sure that Satan will whisper to you these thoughts while reading. I only remind of THE TRUTH perhaps someone may take heed.

1- You said: "WE have to stop the invasion of Islam into the Western World It will drag our civilization into the dirt."

I can't agree with you more, the so called "Islam" of today has nothing to do with the original religion of God (Submission, Islam in Arabic), Satan has succesfully duped them into idolizing (Muhammad, the saints, scholars..etc) and abandon Quran (the final testament. Please note the parallels in all the present religions and draw your own conclusion on who developed them!. God won't send messengers to tell the people "you shall worship us" !, they are only postmen, would you get concerend with the postman rather than the letter?! is the letter more important than the Sender?

----------------------------------------

2- You said: "What ever good they expose they copied out of the bible."

What's your proof ? this is a profound dis-info. propagated by Satan to shortcircuit us at the word "Quran". Ironically the modern day muslims never use Quran, i grew up in Egypt (i am half Egyptian) and i have witnessed that they read Quran only because (there is a satanic saying attributed to Muhammad in the satanic books of Hadith) that says that reading more letters will add more credits to you, even if you don't reflect or understand the meaning!

To your knowledge, muhammad, the gentile prophet didn't understand other languages beside Arabic. Moreover we have an incontrovertibvle proof (revealed in 1974) of the divine authorship of Quran, did you verify it first before throwing this huge claim that Quran is copied?

[16:101] When we substitute one revelation in place of another, and GOD is fully aware of what He reveals, they say, "You made this up!" Indeed, most of them do not know.

[16:102] Say, "The Holy Spirit has brought it down from your Lord, truthfully, to assure those who believe, and to provide a beacon and good news for the submitters."

[16:103] We are fully aware that they say, "A human being is teaching him!" The tongue of the source they hint at is non-Arabic, and this is a perfect Arabic tongue.


Have you even read Quran to say that it's copied fromthe bible?

------------------------------------

3- You said: "Comparing Muhamed to Jesus is totaly ridiculus Jesus came in Love and offered his life to us."

That's because you make distinction, you idolize Jesus and raise him to a rank higher than his fellow messengers and human beings. Jesus came in love, but not in idolworship, God saved him before the torture began and raised his soul to Him, God is the Most Merciful. He wouldn't let His messenger be crucified without interfering. The myth of crucifixion is aimed at traumatizing you to accept Jesus (a mere mortal) as a god besides God, you should refrain from saying these blasphemies, it would be better for you, that's if you reverence God.

[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

--------------------------------------------

4- You said: "all you got to do is accept Jesus as your savior and repent from your sins."

Again i am not attacking you, but i am only reminding of THE TRUTH that this disinformation of Satan may be defeated.
The idea of a human savior is a satanic propaganda to enslave us and make us stick to a creature rather than the Creator. It also opens the way for sinning, since simply if you accept jesus, you are saved. Do you think it's that easy? the real salvation is attained by freeing yourself from the shackles of idolworship, whether you assign powers to a person or a thing, Only God has power and the visible life elements are the illusion addorned to distract us from the only Savior God.

[4:173] As for those who believe and lead a righteous life, He will fully recompense them, and shower them with His grace. As for those who
disdain and turn arrogant, He will commit them to painful retribution. They will find no lord beside GOD, nor a savior.

----------------------------------------

5- You said: "Living under islam is like living with a policeman on your back all day and night. Living under real Christianity is freedom. "


If you are talking about Muhamedanism (called "islam") i totally agree, eventhough in most islamic countries now they are turning more liberal than the west day by day!
However idolworship is not freedom. The Satanic version of freedom is to enslave you in a creature, whether it is (Jesus, Muhammad, Jackson...etc) or a thing (money, women/men, fame, status, hi-tech gadgets......etc). Real freedom is Submission to God alone, is breaking free of the visible illusion and starting to see the UNSEEN, God and righteousness.

--------------------------------------------

6- You said: "Next time one of them comes to you tell them to accept Jesus as lord and savior."

Why don't you follow your bible if you are really a Christian? isn't that what Jesus taught:

"..Go to my brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God." [JOhn 20:17]

-----------------------------------------------

7- You said: "Only God is the judge of people."


This is a Satanic idea, if the righteous wouldn't judge the wicked and stand against them, there would be chaos on earth. Quran is called the statute book by which we can judge others, however the submitters are not to force anybody into converting, since it violates the condition of the test (freedom of choice). Your very existence on this forum means that you have already judged some people (presidents, men in power...etc)even your friends, or do you befriend everybody?.
Without judging there is no test. But judgment doesn't mean compulsion though. God is the ultimate Judge.

[2:256] There shall be no compulsion in religion: the right way is now distinct from the wrong way. Anyone who denounces the devil and believes in GOD has grasped the strongest bond; one that never breaks. GOD is Hearer, Omniscient.

-------------------------------------------------

8- You said: "You don't know to much about those islam zealots in Europe they are killing Europeans because they say that islam opreses women, Or They say something that is not to their liking about muhamed of there religion."

Since you are referring to the satanic corrupted Islam of today i totally agree with you. However the real Islam (Submission) is about peace, our greeting is (Salaamun 'Alaykum= Peace be unto you), freedom of religion is the core of Submission, agression, violence and unjustified killing of unarmed, innocent civilians is extreemely forbidden.

[17:33] You shall not kill any person - for GOD has made life sacred - except in the course of justice. If one is killed unjustly, then we give his heir authority to enforce justice. Thus, he shall not exceed the limits in avenging the murder, he will be helped.

[2:178-179] O you who believe, equivalence is the law decreed for you when dealing with murder - the free for the free, the slave for the slave, the female for the female. If one is pardoned by the victim's kin, an appreciative response is in order, and an equitable compensation shall be paid. This is an alleviation from your Lord and mercy. Anyone who transgresses beyond this incurs a painful retribution.
Equivalence is a life saving law for you, O you who possess intelligence, that you may be righteous.


Look for the true Islam (Submission) and you will find the TRUTH.

-------------------------------------------------

9- You said: "Did you know? That If a muslim converts to any other religion he can be killed by there sharia law. That It is punishable by death for in Muslim countrie to preach to muslims."


There is even more than that, they stone to death married people who commit adultery!!( a practice derived from the satanic books of "Hadith" never found in Quran!)
As i said before the "Muslim" countries practice a Satanic religion that has nothing to do (the exact opposite) of Quran and Submission which advocates tolerance, freedom and peace.

The Sharia law is mainly derived from the Hadith Satanic books (same as the Jewish law derived from humans and man-made books, Talmoud).

-------------------------------------------------

10- You said: "...the devastating effect they can have on western society. Starting with women,they are treated as almost nothing."

As i said Satan has subverted the religion of Submission completely, the modern Islam has nothing to do with God. The bias against women is from the Hadith books (the source of all evil in Islamic countries). I will give you an example of these unauthorized books:
One Hadith goes like that: "Muslim Hadith: Bukhari/Jihad 2646. Abualyamaan said that Shuaib said that Alzuhari said that Salim Ibn Abdullah told him that Abdullah Ibn Omar said that the prophet Muhammad said: Bad omen is in nothing but three: in the horse, woman and the house."

Note the long chain of people recounting the saying of the prophet over 4 or more generations! how reliable is that?, note also the similarity with the following saying from Talmoud (the Jewish satanic equivelant to the muslim Hadith):

Jewish Talmud: Pesahim 111a. It is forbidden for dogs, women or palm trees to pass between two men, nor may others walk between dogs, women or palm trees. Special dangers are involved if the women are menstruating or sitting at a crossroads.



On the contrary we have the second longest chapter in Quran titled "Women" defending the women's rights. Also God commands the men to take care of the women. Equality is emphasized in Quran between men and women (in their rights), e.g:

[9:71] The believing men and women are allies of one another. They advocate righteousness and forbid evil, they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat), and they obey GOD and His messenger. These will be showered by GOD's mercy. GOD is Almighty, Most Wise.



-and equal in their rewards in this life and in the hearafter:

[33:35] The submitting men, the submitting women, the believing men, the believing women, the obedient men, the obedient women, the truthful men, the truthful women, the steadfast men, the steadfast women, the reverent men, the reverent women, the charitable men, the charitable women, the fasting men, the fasting women, the chaste men, the chaste women, and the men who commemorate GOD frequently, and the commemorating women; GOD has prepared for them forgiveness and a great recompense.

They are allies who fight for the same cause and help each other whole heartedly in perfect harmony. However the men are the captains of the ships, men and women in Quran have different roles according to the distinct qualities designed by God,

-They are not equal in roles:

[4:34]The men are made responsible for the women, and GOD has endowed them with certain qualities, and made them the bread earners. The righteous women will cheerfully accept this arrangement, since it is GOD's commandment, and honor their husbands during their absence. If you experience rebellion from the women, you shall first talk to them, then (you may use negative incentives like) deserting them in bed, then you may (as a last alternative) beat them. If they obey you, you are not permitted to transgress against them. GOD is Most High, Supreme.


This is the design of God, if the couple are righteous, they won't abuse or covet their roles, it will be perfect harmony. But since the corrupt muslims follow satanic religion (a few are righteous among them ofcourse) they abuse these rights and try to enslave women (Satan's creed is based on slavery. e.g: masters and slaves, not equal human beings).

Did you know that the head scarf is a satanic fabrication from the Hadith books!?, in Quran the main criteria for the woman's dress is MODESTY and the best garment is the garment of righteousness.



Bias, racism, superiority are the satanic creeds and it is easily spotted by the sincere in the satanic fabricated books of Hadith and Talmoud that have subveretd the religion of God completely.

------------------------------------------

So please do your homework and research the TRUTH about God's religion before throwing accusations, there is alot of negative propaganda and disinfo to distract us from God's only religion, Submission.

If you disbelieve in the TRUTH i introduced you, i say "Peace" you have your religion and i have mine.

Ahmad
12-09-2004, 08:30 AM
To answer the second post of yours 55132, i will reply only to the Quranic verses you cited, as for the Hadith (Tabari,Muslim,Bukhari, Isaac..etc) quotes, they are good examples of Satan's brainwashing of the Muslims (however no brainwashing or mind control lasts with the sincere).


1- You cited the verse [4:3] which Satan propagates that it encourages Polygamy, here i will present the correct translation (translated by the messenger of the covenant Rashad Khalifa in the "Authorized english translation of Quran):

[4:3] If you deem it best for the orphans, you may marry their mothers - you may marry two, three, or four. If you fear lest you become unfair, then you shall be content with only one, or with what you already have. Additionally, you are thus more likely to avoid financial hardship.


And here i present you the article of late the messenger about Polygamy in his appendix 30 to the authorized translation:


Appendix 30
of the Authorized English translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa

Polygamy

(Polygamy was a way of life until the Quran was revealed 1400 years ago. When the earth was young and under-populated, polygamy was one way of populating it and bringing in the human beings needed to carry out God's plan.
By the time the Quran was revealed, the world had been sufficiently populated, and the Quran put down the first limitations against polygamy.
Polygamy is permitted in the Quran, but under strictly observed circumstances. Any abuse of this divine permission incurs severe retribution. Thus, although polygamy is permitted by God, it behooves us to examine our circumstances carefully before saying that a particular polygamous relationship is permissible.

Our perfect example here is the prophet Muhammad. He was married to one wife, Khadijah, until she died. He had all his children, except one, from Khadijah. Thus, she and her children enjoyed the Prophet's full attention for as long as she was married to him; twenty-five years.
For all practical purposes, Muhammad had one wife - from the age of 25 to 50. During the remaining 13 years of his life, he married the aged widows of his friends who left many children. The children needed a complete home, with a fatherly figure, and the Prophetprovided that. Providing a fatherly figure for orphans is the only specific circumstance in support of polygamy mentioned in the Quran (4:3).

Other than marrying widowed mothers of orphans, there were three political marriages in the Prophet's life. His close friends Abu Bakr and Omar insisted that he marry their daughters, Aisha and Hafsah, to establish traditional family ties among them. The third marriage was to Maria the Egyptian; she was given to him as a political gesture of friendship from the ruler of Egypt.

This perfect example tells us that a man must give his full attentionand loyalty in marriage to his wife and children in order to raise a happy and wholesome family. The Quran emphasizes the limitations against polygamy in very strong words:"If you fear lest you may not be perfectly equitable in treating more than one wife, then you shall be content with one." (4:3)
"You cannot be equitable in a polygamous relationship, no matter how hard you try." (4:129)

The Quranic limitations against polygamy point out the possibility of abusing God's law. Therefore, unless we are absolutely sure that God's law will not be abused, we had better resist our lust and stay away from polygamy. If the circumstances do not dictate polygamy, we had better give our full attention to one wife and one set of children.

The children's psychological and social well-being, especially in countries where polygamy is prohibited, almost invariably dictate monogamy. A few basic criteria must be observed in contemplating polygamy:

1. It must alleviate pain and suffering and not cause any pain or suffering.
2. If you have a young family, it is almost certain that polygamy is an abuse.
3. Polygamy to substitute a younger wife is an abuse of God's law (4:19). Rashad Khalifa P.hd

--------------------------------------------

2- As for the next verse you cited:

[4:11] GOD decrees a will for the benefit of your children; the male gets twice the share of the female. If the inheritors are only women, more than two, they get two-thirds of what is bequeathed. If only one daughter is left, she gets one-half. The parents of the deceased get one-sixth of the inheritance each, if the deceased has left any children. If he left no children, and his parents are the only inheritors, the mother gets one-third. If he has siblings, then the mother gets one-sixth. All this, after fulfilling any will the deceased has left, and after paying off all debts. When it comes to your parents and your children, you do not know which of them is really the best to you and the most beneficial. This is GOD's law. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise.


The design of God entails that the men are made responsible of their families, thus the daughter is taken care of by her husband. The messenger of the covenant also mentioned in a footnote to this verse: "However, Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son." Rashad khalifa Ph.D.

---------------------------------------------

3- Then you blasphemed against God by saying:
"Qur’an 4:43 “Believers, approach not prayers with a mind befogged or intoxicated until you understand what you utter. Nor when you are polluted, until after you have bathed. If you are ill, or on a journey, or come from answering the call of nature, or you have touched a woman, and you find no water, then take for yourselves clean dirt, and rub your faces and hands. Lo! Allah is Benign, Forgiving.” [The Qur’an claims women are unclean and polluted—worse than dirt.]"

If it's out of ignorance perhaps God may forgive you, the above verse is twisted, here is the correct translation first:

[4:43] O you who believe, do not observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) while intoxicated, so that you know what you are saying. Nor after sexual orgasm without bathing, unless you are on the road, traveling; if you are ill or traveling, or you had urinary or fecal-related excretion (such as gas), or contacted the women (sexually), and you cannot find water, you shall observe Tayammum (dry ablution) by touching clean dry soil, then wiping your faces and hands therewith. GOD is Pardoner, Forgiver.

The Hadith books claim that women are unclean, it's always Satan who stresses the differences (gender, color, race, belief...etc) to create conflict and disharmony.

------------------------------------------

4- The next verse you cited is "the head scarf" verse!. This verse has been severly distorted by the satanic translators as per the translation you cite, my mother tongue is Arabic, and i know that the authorized translation of the messenger Rashad khalifa is the most correct (authorized by God).

satans' translation you cited(dis-info.):
Qur’an 33:59 “Prophet! Tell your wives and daughters and all Muslim women to draw cloaks and veils all over their bodies (screening themselves completely except for one or two eyes to see the way). That will be better.”


God's authorized translation: (the Truth)
[33:59] O prophet, tell your wives, your daughters, and the wives of the believers that they shall lengthen their garments. Thus, they will be recognized (as righteous women) and avoid being insulted. GOD is Forgiver, Most Merciful.


It is clear that there is no mention of the head scarf inthis verse, Satan distorted this verse to dupe millions to cover their heads!. The verse clearly talks about LENGTHENING THE GARMENTS. You may know how a mini-garment could draw the attention of men and distract us from righteousness and degrade women. The best garment recommended by God is the garment of righteousness. A modest dress will surely protect the dignity of women instead of the degradation by the media and the beauty contests that turn them into lifeless objects (idols rivaling God). Satan advocates extremes (Nudism, and total veiling), God advocvates the balanced, middle path, the path of righteousness.

You cited the following verse out of context,

Qur’an 24:31 “Say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that they should not display their beauty except what (must) appear; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display them except to their husbands...”

Here is the correct authorized translation of this verse, along with the verse preceeding it:
[24:30] Tell the believing men that they shall subdue their eyes (and not stare at the women), and to maintain their chastity. This is purer for them. GOD is fully Cognizant of everything they do.
[24:31] And tell the believing women to subdue their eyes, and maintain their chastity. They shall not reveal any parts of their bodies, except that which is necessary. They shall cover their chests, and shall not relax this code in the presence of other than their husbands, their fathers, the fathers of their husbands, their sons, the sons of their husbands, their brothers, the sons of their brothers, the sons of their sisters, other women, the male servants or employees whose sexual drive has been nullified, or the children who have not reached puberty. They shall not strike their feet when they walk in order to shake and reveal certain details of their bodies. All of you shall repent to GOD, O you believers, that you may succeed.


The verses protect the woman's dignity, the command of subduing the eyes from staring lustfully at women is what will prevent the society from moral breakdown (the command is also applicable to pornography), obsession and idolizing the beauty of women or men and inability to relate it to its creator is the direct result of staring at each other lustfully. A righteous society refrains from sexual lusts except within God's balanced system of marriage.


----------------------------------------------

5- then you mention the verse of "health quarantine":

Dis-info:

Qur’an 4:15 “If any of your women are guilty of lewdness, take the evidence of four witnesses from amongst you against them; if they testify, confine them to houses until death [by starvation] claims them.”



Here is the correct translation:

[4:15] Those who commit adultery among your women, you must have four witnesses against them, from among you. If they do bear witness, then you shall keep such women in their homes until they die, or until GOD creates an exit for them.

And here is the footnote of this verse explained by the messenger of the covenant Rashad khalifa:

(4:15 A woman witnessed by four people in the act of commiting adultery on four different occasions, with four different partners, represents a danger to public health. Such a woman is a depository of germs, and a health quarantine protects the society from her. A good example of an exit that saves a quarantined woman is marriage-someone may wish to marry her, and thus protect her and the society.) Rashad Khalifa Ph.D

-----------------------------------------------

6- Then you mention what you call {freedom to pimp card) !

You mentioned: Qur’an 24:33 “Force not your slave-girls to whoredom (prostitution) if they desire chastity, that you may seek enjoyment of this life. [And here’s the freedom-to-pimp card:] But if anyone forces them, then after such compulsion, Allah is oft-forgiving.”



First here is the correct translation:

[24:33] Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. You shall not force your girls to commit prostitution, seeking the materials of this world, if they wish to be chaste. If anyone forces them, then GOD, seeing that they are forced, is Forgiver, Merciful.


Any sincere person would understand this as a command not to accept or promote prostitution ever for the chaste girls of the submitters families. If any wicked person forces them to prostitution, God, The Most Merciful will forgive the girls because of being forced.

-------------------------------------------------

7- Then you go to a popular accustaion to Quran:

Qur’an 24:2 For the woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication, flog each of them with a hundred stripes. Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah. And let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.”


Here is the correct translation:

[24:2] The adulteress and the adulterer you shall whip each of them a hundred lashes. Do not be swayed by pity from carrying out GOD's law, if you truly believe in GOD and the Last Day. And let a group of believers witness their penalty.


And here is the footnote to this verse by the messenger Rashad Khalifa from his authorized translation:
(24:2 Social pressure, i.e: public witnessing of the penalty, is the basic punishment, see also 5:38. The lashes shall be symbolic, not severe) Rashad Khalifa Ph.D


As for the wicked biased human beings, they will interpret it in violent terms, thus everyone is exposed, although they read the same book!

---------------------------------------------

8- The last verse you cited was te following:

Qur’an 24:6 “And for those who launch a charge against their wives, accusing them, but have no witnesses or evidence, except themselves; let the testimony of one of them be four testimonies, (swearing four times) by Allah that he is the one speaking the truth.”

Again you took the verse out of context to prove your point that Quran is biased against women!

Here is the context:

[24:6] As for those who accuse their own spouses, without any other witnesses, then the testimony may be accepted if he swears by GOD four times that he is telling the truth.

[24:7] The fifth oath shall be to incur GOD's condemnation upon him, if he was lying.

[24:8] She shall be considered innocent if she swears by GOD four times that he is a liar.

[24:9] The fifth oath shall incur GOD's wrath upon her if he was telling the truth.

[24:10] This is GOD's grace and mercy towards you. GOD is Redeemer, Wise.




There is dis-information, and there is information, God guides the sincere to the Truth.

marypopinz
12-09-2004, 08:56 AM
Anyone can quote the Bible and anyone can quote the Quran.

I am delighted regarded this heated debate and....

I am sick of this rediculous mentality of my God is better than yours!!!!!!!!!

My religion is better than yours is a bunch of Hoowie!

As my son would say, "Don't hate. Appreciate."

Both religions comes from days gone by when not one of us here were present. Both Holy books are a testament of faith. We are not at war with those who share faith. We are not at war with those who share God. We are at war with the Devil and he is a greedy bastid who is attacking the innocense of our youth.

I will make it clear once more. I worship God, not an idol. God. Jesus is my hero. If I could be half the woman that He is a man... The Holy Spirit flows through the heart of humanity.

Jesus is a light of compassion.

I have read the Bible and continue to do so. I also read the Quran.

Islam is fighting to protect their way of life from the West and rightly so! Western society is a sexual quagmire of greed, deception, and ignorance.

Maybe the Islam religion is scary to others because of their foreign customs. Christianity seems to want to paint them as completely oppressive to woman, and what does the Christian Western society do to a woman?

Send her out to work, make her a greedy bitch, praises her for messing up the family unit and abandoning the family. We as a Christian Canadian country sanction the homeless families that are how many? We as a Christian Canadian country have welcomed the pedophile, reward him with lenient to no sentences in minimum security facilities, only to release hinm to the community while the police cry, "There's a molester on the loose."

I say we set him free to prey on the children. Is this not one subject, children, that we as parents of both religions can agree on?

We need to protect the children and pray for each other. God has children of every race and every religion, all over the world.

Stop hating and appreciate the differences. Islam does not believe in interest on money. How far would these NWO jackasses have got if North America was a Moslem nation.

There is good and bad in everything. One mans cure is another man poison.

Peace be unto everyone
Peace be unto every child.
Peace :lol:

Mary XXX

Daniel
12-09-2004, 09:18 AM
Ahmad, your wisdom and patience is evident amongst us Jinn. I don't believe you have it all but more than most.

Mary, Right on, you go girl!

55132
12-09-2004, 11:11 AM
Ahmad

Many Muslims today are using what is called a “weak Hadith defense” to divert the criticism non-Muslims are heaping upon Muhammad based upon the behavior that is recorded in these ancient and traditional Islamic sources.

Muslim reformers don’t realize that a denial of the validity of the Sunnah amounts to a denial of the Holy Qur'an's claim that the prophethood of Muhammad (may peace be upon him) is a timeless example for Muslims to follow. By denying the Hadith, a Muslim denies that the Prophet Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) words and deeds are the timeless expression of the Will of Allah. By denying the Hadith, Muslims are unable to believe in Muhammad or follow his orders as the Qur’an requires.

1.The Sahih Al-Bukhari and Sahih Muslim collections are considered to be authentic historical records by orthodox Muslims. So, a weak Hadith defense is unjustified when these sources are used to critique Muhammad sayings and behavior.

2. A weak Hadith technically refers to the chain of narrators (isnad), reputation of the narrators, and the text of narration (matn). Even if there were a technical flaw in a Hadith, it does not necessarily mean that the Hadith is not an authentic one. Authenticity and weakness are two different concepts.

3.The Qur'an has less technical support for its authenticity than do many Hadith. Yet, the Qur’an is considered authentic by all traditional Muslims. So, if an historical saying must be rejected because it is technically weak, then much of the Qur'an would have to be rejected too. They were both collected, preserved, and passed on the same way and by the same people.

4.Some Muslims use the weak Hadith defense, because they approach Muhammad with their own wishful presuppositions. So, they automatically reject any Hadith that does not meet the standard of their uncritical assumptions. Our beliefs should be grounded in historical reality: not wishful thinking.

5.The third standard (matn) to judge the authenticity of a Hadith is an illegitimate standard. Present-day beliefs [read: unsubstantiated opinions] don't determine the events of the past. All Hadith compiled by Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, and Muslim had to be consistent with, or at least explain the Qur’an for them to be included in the original collections.

There is extensive historical information that can be ascertained about the life and teachings of Muhammad in the Hadith collections that were compiled from these ancient Muslim oral traditions. Some of the most valued collections of topically arranged Hadith were those collected by Bukhari, Dawud, and Muslim, who were ancient traditional Muslim scholars. The chronologically compiled collections of Ibn Ishaq and al-Tabari are the oldest in Islam. Their extensive collections provide detailed information on the thoughts and actions of Muhammad (may peace be upon him). These collections must be studied in order to understand Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) life and teachings. In fact, these collections provide vastly more information on the life and teachings of Muhammad and thus the nature of Islam, than does the Qur’an itself.

However, when someone examines these accepted Hadiths, they find some accounts in which Muhammad displays unfavorable behavior or says thing which simply are not true. This foolishness, immoral or criminal behavior is an embarrassment to many Western Muslims who seek to defend Islam. So without thinking about the consequences, many Muslims seek to minimize these historical accounts by claiming that these Hadiths are weak; and, therefore, they should be ignored in discussion of Muhammad’s religion.

But, is this weak Hadith argument a legitimate defense of Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) character? Or, is it a convenient ploy to divert the attention away from the unsavory words and deeds of Muhammad (may peace be upon him)? Why should the ancient writings of the great traditional Muslim scholars be set aside so conveniently whenever Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) violent or deviant behavior is exposed from these scholarly, ancient, traditional, and authentic Muslim sources? If we must hide the truth for Muhammad to be believed, is he believable?

Now, it is true there were many Hadiths that were rejected by ancient traditional Muslim scholars. They rejected them because these traditions were fabricated (maudu’) for political reasons long after Muhammad died. But these were discarded long before the trusted collections were compiled. These fabricated Muslim traditions are very much like the apocryphal post-New Testament writings that appeared long after the genuine New Testament gospels were written. But it is clear that Ibn Ishaq, al-Bukhari, al-Tabari, Dawud, and Imam Muslim did not include maudu' Hadith within their collections. In fact, they applied stringent standards to assure that mandu' Hadith were excluded.

For an oral tradition to be accepted as sahih (sound), it must meet important requirements. And, if a tradition did not meet the requirements for a sahih Hadith, it was not accepted into the family of sahih Hadith by Ishaq, Tabari, Bukhari, Dawud, or Muslim. Therefore, the standard Hadith collections are considered by traditional Muslim scholarship to be sahih. Thus, it is unjustified to use a weak Hadith defense when a sahih Hadith is used to present the actions and teachings of Muhammad.

Literally means sahih means sound, healthy, and without fault. Firstly, to be a sahih Hadith (in the third Islamic century which would include Tabari, Bukhari, Muslim, and Dawud but not Ishaq as it was written earlier), the Hadith must have had a chain of transmission (isnad) in which there was no weakness. Each link of the chain must have been connected by a narrator who heard the narration from the prior link in the chain. The chain of narrators must have been an unbroken chain. Secondly, each individual narrator must have been a just (‘adl) Muslim of good reputation. Thirdly, the text (matn) of the Hadith must have been in accordance with orthodox Islamic teachings. That means that the matn of a sahih Hadith needed to be consistent with the Qur’an’s message, help explain the Qur’an, help explain Islam’s Five Pillars, or help establish Islamic customs, rituals, and laws.

Furthermore, Muslims accept the text of the Qur'an without hesitation. However, each ayah (verse) of the Qur'an is not based upon Mutawatir (multiple chains of corroborating narration continuous through history) isnad. So, why should a Hadith have to meet a higher standard of historical verification than the Qur'an itself?

When a Hadith meets all the proper qualifications for a sahih Hadith, it must be accepted by all Muslims. A sahih Hadith is an obligatory Hadith—it is the Prophet’s Sunnah. It must be acted upon according to the consensus of the Muslim scholarship. The sahih Hadith are those used as the sources of Islamic jurisprudence (Usul al-Fiqh). They are used as proof in cases involving Islamic Shari’ah law. They make our observance of Islam’s Five Pillars possible.

So, it is not legitimate for a Muslim who professes to follow the teachings and behavior of Muhammad to downplay sahih Hadith. These Hadith are not weak.

Furthermore, the fact that a Hadith is not a sahih Hadith does not mean that the Hadith is not a true report regarding Muhammad’s life. It simply means that, technically speaking, the isnad of the Hadith lacks the high standard required to be a sahih Hadith. So, even though a Hadith is technically weak, i.e., its isnad is not flawless, it may still be an authentic Hadith. Technically, a weak Hadith is not the same thing as a ‘forged’ (Maudu’) or fabricated Hadith.

Fabricated Hadith were not intentionally included in Burkhart's, Muslim’s, Ishaq’s, or Tabari’s collections. So, simply setting aside a Hadith as weak is only a statement regarding its isnad. It is not a statement that the traditions is a forged or a Maudu’ Hadith. The fact that a Hadith was included in Ishaq’s, Tabari’s, Bukhari’s or Muslim’s collection is evidence that the Hadith is an authentic one, even though its isnad may not meet the standard required to be a sahih Hadith. Ishaq was not only Muhammad’s (may peace be upon him) first biographer, he was the first Islamic scholar whose writings survive. Tabari was the first Muslim to write a commentary on the Qur’an. These men were the most learned Muslims of their day. So, the weak Hadith defense used against an unfavorable Hadith found in one of their collections that displays Muhammad's (may peace be upon him) immoral or criminal behavior is a really weak defense.

If a Muslim wants to deny the behavior or words attributable to Muhammad (may peace be upon him) found in the oldest Hadith collections, they must prove that the Hadith is not historically authentic while at the same time revealing an earlier, and more authentic Hadith, to support a different conclusion. Then they must explain how the unfavorable Hadith found their way into the oldest and most trusted collections while at the same time explaining away the contradiction, as internal contradiction is evidence that something isn’t true. And even then, we must be careful not to condemn any Hadith that is consistent with the teaching of the Qur’an. This is a much more difficult task.

Lastly, some Muslims disparage some Hadith because of their initial presuppositions regarding the sayings and behavior of Muhammad. For example, they uncritically assume that Muhammad was a perfect and flawless individual whose sayings and actions were all divinely inspired by Allah. Beginning with this initial presupposition, they set aside everything in traditional Muslim scholarship that does not accord with their initial religious assumptions. However, this is unfortunate, because historical reality should take precedent over our religious assumptions. Instead, our religious belief should be in accordance with historical reality. This is why the historical record found in the ahadith [Arabic plural of Hadith] and the Sirat Rasul Allah by Ibn Ishaq are so important.

Finally, the third standard (matn) that Muslim scholarship uses to judge the authenticity of a Hadith seems to be an illegitimate standard. The real standard should be the historicity of a narrative. To determine the actuality of an historical event, the chain of narrators (isnad) and the reliability and reputation of the narrators ('adl) are valid considerations. By contrast, it is not intellectually appropriate to reject a historical event because it does not agree with Muslim religious doctrine. This view gets the cart before the horse. In essence, it asserts that, even if a historical event actually happened, Muslim scholarship would reckon that it did not happen if it conflicts with their present-day religious dogma. Our present-day thoughts don't create the events of past history. If they did, there would be no point in historical research.

As a side note, some Muslim scholarship applies their third standard to the events of the Bible. For example, some believe that all prophets lived sinless lives. Since Muslim belief teaches that adultery is a sin, it would follow that no prophet committed adultery. Therefore, since we believe that King Dawud (King David) was a prophet, it follows that he never committed adultery with Bathsheba (2 Samuel 11:2-5). Therefore, we must conclude that the biblical report of King Dawud's adultery was not a true report because the historicity of the report is irrelevant. It does not make any difference whether or not King Dawud actually committed adultery. For many Muslims, present-day beliefs take precedence over the actual events of history. Thus, there could never be an historical event that could conflict with Muslim dogma. Such an arbitrary standard safely protects the religion of Islam from the realities of the historical record, making the religion of Islam non-falsifiable…but at what cost?

marypopinz
12-09-2004, 11:56 AM
Excellant food forthought 55132.

God Bless you and keep your family healthy and safe. Please pray for peace and the truth to come to light. It's ging to be a painful birthing process for the world and the promised child is the grace of God - peace.

Mary XXX

marypopinz
12-09-2004, 11:58 AM
Daniel.

Keep up the faith!

:-D

Ahmad
12-09-2004, 12:00 PM
It's either you didn't read any of my posts on that thread, or you just cut and paste articles to tarnish the truth!

Whatever the case is, here is a brief answer to your claims:

1- The "Weak Hadith" theory you mention is totally a different issue than my position which is:

-SUBMISSION has only ONE source of law, Quran.

-MUHAMMAD's mission was only to DELIVER Quran.

-ALL HIS SAYINGS false or true must be dealt with as we deal with history books, some are false dis-info. and some are truth. Whatever they are, they can't and don't constitute a LAW besides God's ONLY LAW, Quran.


Muhammad himself is quoted in Quran saying that he is not to use anything other than Quran as a source of law.

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.


[6:19] Say, "Whose testimony is the greatest?" Say, "GOD's. He is the witness between me and you that this Quran has been inspired to me, to preach it to you and whomever it reaches. Indeed, you bear witness that there are other gods beside GOD." Say, "I do not testify as you do; there is only one god, and I disown your idolatry."

----------------------------

The Satanic books of Hadith & Sunna are ideologically flawed, because God wouldn't send a book and tell the postman to deliver another book along with it! why the confusion?!
Also Quran has no contradictions, no nonsense. while Hadith books are FULL of contradictions and totally goes againt the Quranic teachings.

Now here is a challenge for you if you are that knowledgeable, can you point out any contradictions in Quran? The criterea for a divine book is "No contradictions".

[4:82] Why do they not study the Quran carefully? If it were from other than GOD, they would have found in it numerous contradictions.

---------------------------

However the ultimate proof of devine authorship is the message itself, if you can't see the TRUTH in it, no body can show it to you!

The messenger of the covenant Rashad Khalifa was sent in 70s and 80s to PURIFY once and forall God's religion. The miracle of 19 was revealed through him. God equipped Quran (the final testament) with a built in, incontrovertible mathematical proof of authenticity, that will prove to anybody that it is the only book on earth with this phenomena intact. 19 proves the authenticity of Quran word by word to reassure the hearts of the believers, the Christians and the Jewish that it is indeed the final testament.

The corrupt muslims have refused to accept this miracle because it obviously rejects Hadith (a non-proven book) as not from God. They finally killed the messenger in 1990!

Here is an introduction to the miracle of 19.

From appendix 1 (Authorized english translation of Quran by Rashad Khalifa):

THE SIMPLE FACTS

Like the Quran itself, the Quran's mathematical coding ranges from the very simple, to the very complex. The Simple Facts are those observations that can be ascertained without using any tools. The complex facts require the assistance of a calculator or a computer. The following facts do not require any tools to be verified, but please remember they all refer to the original Arabic text:

1. The first verse (1:1),known as "Basmalah," consists of 19 letters.
(This verse begins all the chapters except one, it says: In the name of God, The Gracious, The Merciful)

2. The Quran consists of 114 suras(Chapters), which is ..............19 x 6.
3. The total number of verses in the Quran is 6346, or ....19 x 334. [6234 numbered verses & 112 un-numbered verses (Basmalahs) 6234+112 = 6346] Note that 6+3+4+6 =.......19.
8. The famous first revelation (96:1-5) consists of .......19 words.
9. This 19-worded first revelation consists of 76 letters .19 x 4.
10. Sura 96, first in the chronological sequence, consists of .......................19 verses.
11. This first chronological sura is placed atop the last ..19 suras.
12. Sura 96 consists of 304 Arabic letters, and 304 equals .19 x 16.
13. The last revelation (Sura 110) consists of ............19 words.
14. The first verse of the last revelation (110:1) consists of ................19 letters.
19. The Quran mentions 30 different numbers: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 19, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70, 80, 99, 100, 200, 300, 1000, 2000, 3000, 5000, 50,000, & 100,000. The sum of these numbers is 162146, which equals 19x8534. Rashad Khalifa


For more info. http://www.usn2161.net/19miracle.html
Or find appendix 1 of the authorized english translation by Rashad Khalifa


The discovery of this miracle in Quran paves the way for the establishment of God's kingdom on earth, The USN, whether the wicked satanists who think they rule the world like it or not, God's will will be done, and the prophecy in Quran says that all the exsisting religions will fade out gradually and Submission will prevail on earth.

[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.

marypopinz
12-09-2004, 12:21 PM
The Quran is the only way... Jesus Christ is the only way.


Give it a rest. Faith is the only way. All true faiths lead to God. If God is in your heart, you are on the right path. God is peace and understanding and mercy and love and grace and truth.

God loves ALL his children. Satan's children are not following God and God still loves them... he wants to turn them from their evil ways. Belief in God is having faith in something good from beyond - a positive creative force. Satanists believe in this life alone and not the afterlife. Complete Destruction. They think only of themselves. They are seeking to destroy God's children through the annihilation of all faiths.

They are seeking to destroy hope.

Wake up and stop arguing. You are family. You are supposed to seek the common ground in the name of peace for the love of the children. Isn't that what a family does?

Please correct me if I am mistaken.

Mary XXX

Ahmad
12-09-2004, 12:27 PM
Peace,

I for one have no personal issues with anyone and i don't like to argue. however it is my duty to proclaim the truth and expose the disinformation, otherwise Satan will really reign.

The problem is not faith in God, the question is:

Which god? The Creator or a creature.
& God alone or God+ a creature?.

I believe Satan promotes the latter choices.

marypopinz
12-09-2004, 01:22 PM
Your God or mine? I say they are one and the same. So does your quran.

God Bless.

Mary XXX

55132
12-09-2004, 03:39 PM
Ahmad

Because I read your post I posted mine. And I feel this more than answers your post.

I have no reason to think that you are not a sincere believer in a reformed Islam. But sadly what you propose goes totaly againts what is written in your holy book ) and in the traditions and history of your system, and you cannot change that.

Unless you are proposing a new muslim testament with a new profet there is no future in what you expose.

In islam the more you depart from your writting the more humane it becomes unfortuantly the reverse is true also.

I will not answer a verse by verse debate because it will lead nowhere. We can be here shooting texts against texts for the next 20 years. I go to directly to the root.

Peace be with you Ahmad I wish no ill but I will always stand against what you and your brethern say. Because God is GOD of Love.



55132

Ahmad
12-10-2004, 05:17 AM
55312 said: "But sadly what you propose goes totaly againts what is written in your holy book )"


Based on your postings (or cut and pastes) i don't think you ever bothered to reasearch the subject thoroughly before you embrace this attitude against Quran. I presented you the Truth but you don't want the truth, you want some disinfo. cut and pasted from here and there to make an opinion of yours!


I know just one thing about all of this, Satan tries to discredit "Submission" the original religion of Abraham, his plan is nearly completed with the war on terror. First he divided Submission into three disbuting factions (Judaism, Christianity and Islam) and then he is now in the final stages of his plan driving these three factions against each other for no other reason but to destroy his enemy, the human being, and to drive the people away from God and anything to do with religion.

However God also has a plan, and it will swallow all this vicious scheme of Satan very soon God willing.

You seem to have totally ignored my points, that i am not calling to the present day Islam, but on the contrary trying to give you the ONE TRUTH that Satan and his NWO satanist leaders don't want you to know, that GOD IS ONE who has no equal, raising a human being (even if he is a prophet) to a divine rank is what the NWO wants of you, the most obvious example is the Celebrity-worship satanic cult.

Before you post another hate thread, please be carefull with your sources, and try to be objective, logical and don't follow your opinion and put it above the truth.

What you presented is truth (about the corruption of modern day Islam represented by the satanic Hadith books) but mixed with falsehood (trying to discredit Quran, God's final testament). So if you can't debate properly, please refrain from these kinds of posts.

marypopinz
12-10-2004, 07:54 AM
Mr. Moslem dude, I truly appreciate the strength of your faith.

If you choose to believe I am going to hell because I believe Jesus Christ was the spirit of God, incarnate, so be it.

If you to choose to believe all souls sans Islam are going to hell, you are in for a pretty rude awakening when you get there. I don't believe heaven is solely for the Christians or the Moslems, it's the home of all God's children.

Heaven is for those who have faith and believe in the power of love, forgiveness and understanding.

If I get their first, I'll make sure to hold the door open for you. Would you do the same for me my Moslem brother, or would you have God slam the gates in my Christian face?

As a parent, I find this my God is better than your God attitude very immature, no disrespect intended. :-? All religions have been corrupted by men, wake up; that's why God wrote the message on your heart... compassion is the word.

Peace Mary X

Ahmad
12-10-2004, 10:18 AM
Peace,

First there is no argument between me and you, i believe you recieved the message of "Submission" it all depends on your decision.

You asked me a question,

marypopinz said: "If I get their first, I'll make sure to hold the door open for you. Would you do the same for me my Moslem brother, or would you have God slam the gates in my Christian face?"


God answers that question in Quran (the final testament), since He is the Only One who judges on the day of judgment, there is no intercession on that day,

1-The only unforgivable sin is "Idolatry" (e.g: worshipping creatures, things&people like the prophets and saints, e.g:Jesus,Muhammad):

[4:48] GOD does not forgive idolatry, but He forgives lesser offenses for whomever He wills. Anyone who sets up idols beside GOD, has forged a horrendous offense.


2-God calls those who set up partners beside Him and idolize Jesus and mortal creatures Pagans:

[5:17]Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, the son of Mary. Say, "Who could oppose GOD if He willed to annihilate the Messiah, son of Mary, and his mother, and everyone on earth?" To GOD belongs the sovereignty of the heavens and the earth, and everything between them. He creates whatever He wills. GOD is Omnipotent.

[5:72]Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah himself said, "O Children of Israel, you shall worship GOD; my Lord and your Lord." Anyone who sets up any idol beside GOD, GOD has forbidden Paradise for him, and his destiny is Hell. The wicked have no helpers.

[5:73] Pagans indeed are those who say that GOD is a third of a trinity. There is no god except the one god. Unless they refrain from saying this, those who disbelieve among them will incur a painful retribution.



The Truth has been delivered to you, now the choice is yours, GOD ALONE or GOD + a creature ?

no hatred, no insult intended, just peace.

marypopinz
12-10-2004, 11:34 AM
I understand what you are saying and please understand my perception of Jesus Christ.

A. I can't be bothered to find the exact quote and Jesus told everyone that he was not God, don't call him God, because their is only one God. The father in heaven.

B. i.)Jesus was born of flesh and I was not there. Realistically, I do not believe in immaculate conception and having an open mind and an open heart to God, believing that God can do ANYTHING - in my mind, yes it is possible. It could have happened that way. God can do anything.
ii.) The constant re-writing of the Bible, changing things here and there makes me question its authenticity as opposed to the Quran which is written in its original tongue, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.

C. Could God send his spirit into a human child?Yes, most definiteley. God can do anything.

D. Would this child be God? One came from the other. No. Of God, yes.

E. What if God came through this child and visited earth for a time, in human form? Is that possible? For me, yes. God can do anything.

F. Is Jesus Christ God on earth, which he never claimed, according to the Bible? I don't know... I'm still questioning that one. It doesn't quite make sense to me. God is the daddy. Jesus is the son. Father...child. Like the relationship God wants us to have with him. We are his children and he is our father and we must all get along and play nicely or there will be hell to pay.

G. Did he claim to be the son of God? I don't know about that one either. I wasn't there and I don't trust the messenger, the tampered Bible of today. I believe the spirit of God inspired this child and perhaps even a miraculous conception. For me, that is credible.

In closing, although I understand the Catholic trinity, I do not agree with it.

There is only one God and he is the Father of all faiths in God. In the Truth. The truth always comes to light.

Jesus Christ is my hero. He is my role model and I love him like the brother I never had. His spirit, the love of God, is ALWAYS there for me, helping me, and guiding me through God's love and the inspiration Jesus Christ gave through his exemplary human life. He stood up and said, "Wrong is wrong". No money and religion.... it's a bad mixture called politics. No worshipping things - materialism - worship GOD ALONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
THROUGH LOVE

When you love your kids do you neglect them or do you pay attention and try to teach them? For me, that's why God has kept sending HOLY MESSENGERS over time. People who were inspired with God's truth. Maybe the secret to everlasting peace is hidden amongst the varying faiths of the world; each faith holding a separate key, to the gates of heaven that have only one lock that all the keys fit.

Christianity - what a single human being can do when inspired from God? I believe Jesus performed miracles and healed people in the name of God. I've seen miracles. They are real. They happen.

This is my Christian faith. I do not know everything and I think about what I feel about things. I question what I do not understand.

Maybe in your culture, my perception of Jesus would qualify Jesus as a prohet? I think so. Correct me if I am wrong.

The mainstream many branched bedevilled institution known as Christianity will make you kiss an idol of Jesus while they steal your money through brainwashing. This is not the religion that the spirit of God has written upon our Christian hearts.

Jesus was all about reality, the truth, and the human potential for good; can people simply have faith in what is good, by definition: GOD? Can we stop focussing on the evil? Pay attention to the good stuff and be aware of the evil. That's where the focus of humanity should be. Towards GOD, being aware of a dwindling satanic hold. That's a good thought.

For you personally, what was the main mesage of Mohammed? In a nutshell please, for those without patience for endless quotation of scripture. :-)

Peace Brother

Mary XXX

Ahmad
12-10-2004, 12:16 PM
Peace Mary,

I would like to comment on two points:

1-you said: "The constant re-writing of the Bible, changing things here and there makes me question its authenticity as opposed to the Quran which is written in its original tongue, I believe, correct me if I'm wrong."

I believe the bible contains around 90% truth, the rest are the injected ideas of (Trinity, Savior, Lord is Jesus, Son of God, died for us all). These ideas were established long after Jesus departed (God raised his soul before they tortured the empty body) in the Nicene conference 325 AD.
As for Quran, it is letter by letter from God with no change whatsoever to it except two injected verses (exalting Muhammad) that were exposed and purified through the messenger of the covenant Rashad Khalifa by using the miracle of 19 (the mathematical phenomena that preserved the Quran for 1400 years), do you know about the superhuman code discovered in Quran? it proves the divine authorship of every letter of it. Thus Quran as the final testament confirms (the truths only) in the previous scriptures and supercedes them as God says.


2- Jesus in the bible is called consistently "son of man", in Quran he is called "Son of Mary". God is much more exalted than having a son, we should value our Creator as He should be valued, the Initiator of the seven Heavens and the earth!

[39:67] They can never fathom the greatness of GOD. The whole earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection. In fact, the universes are folded within His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above needing any partners.

3- Jesus was just a righteous human messenger:

[4:171] O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion, and do not say about GOD except the truth. The Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, was a messenger of GOD, and His word that He had sent to Mary, and a revelation from Him. Therefore, you shall believe in GOD and His messengers. You shall not say, "Trinity." You shall refrain from this for your own good. GOD is only one god. Be He glorified; He is much too glorious to have a son. To Him belongs everything in the heavens and everything on earth. GOD suffices as Lord and Master.

His birth is exactly as Adam's birth:

[3:59] The example of Jesus, as far as GOD is concerned, is the same as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him, "Be," and he was.

His miracles are from God, not from him, Satan used them to dupe the people into idolizing a creature instead of devoting themselves to God alone. The holy spirit is none but Gabriel, the angel of revelation.

[5:110] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, remember My blessings upon you and your mother. I supported you with the Holy Spirit, to enable you to speak to the people from the crib, as well as an adult. I taught you the scripture, wisdom, the Torah, and the Gospel. Recall that you created from clay the shape of a bird by My leave, then blew into it, and it became a live bird by My leave. You healed the blind and the leprous by My leave, and revived the dead by My leave. Recall that I protected you from the Children of Israel who wanted to hurt you, despite the profound miracles you had shown them. The disbelievers among them said, `This is obviously magic.'


4- There is God's path and there is Satan's paths, God's path is being free from obsessions, addictions, and unjustified hate and fear. God's path is fighting oppression, advocating righteousness and forbidding evil. God's path is to reverence Him alone, not your boss, not your spouse, not your prseident, nor Jesus or Muhammad or any priest, celebrity or saint. God's path is to be able to RELATE all the power (beauty, knowledge, skill...etc) of everything and everyone to God, which results in total devotion to Him alone, seeking His forgivness, and being appreciative of His blessings, lessons and provisions.

In short Muhammad's, Jesus's, Moses's and Abraham's message was to disbelieve first in all the false gods/centers (the visible things and people), acknowledge their 100% weakness and need for God, and then (becoming God-centered)by believing that God alone posseses all Power in the universe, thus nobody and nothing can harm or benefit on its own, nothing happens except in accordance with His will.

marypopinz
12-10-2004, 12:42 PM
True islam is indeed a beautiful religion. Thank you for explaining that to me.

I finally truly understand where you are speaking from and do you understand the relationship I have with Jesus Christ? He is the spirit of God that flows through humanity and was sent to bring peace to the nations he is the human embodiment of love and understanding.

Jesus is not God, he is of God. Just like you and me. The Christians are gonna bash me now! He was human and is now immortal, and so shall we be, following the truth and knowing the only God is good enough for our children, the Satanic crap has got to go.

It's all about one God and many divinely inspired human messengers

God Bless

Mary XXX

marypopinz
12-10-2004, 12:53 PM
Thank you Ahmad, understanding your faith has given me a better understanding of my own.

I do know that God calls all the shots and whatever happened in the past, happened... that's for sure. And whatever is gonna happen is gonna happen. That is for sure. The promise I believe from the Bible is an age of Peace. What is the hope of the Quran?

Mary XXX

Ahmad
12-11-2004, 04:41 AM
Peace Mary,


Here is the hope of Quran, but note that it is only for those who believe in GOD ALONE. Jesus and Muhammad were ONLY human beings (nothing is devine about them), you can be better than Jesus and than Muhammad by breaking free from the illusion, that anybody or anything can help you.

Have no fear of the visible illusion, Satan's agents have already lost the battle, they are now trying to save their sinking ship!

The battle field is inside each one of us, if you defeat your Jinn companion, by taking charge of your mind and body and believing in God Alone, no power on earth can ever harm you.


Hope:

1- The children of Israel were saved from the tyrant (Pharaoh) and the tyrant and his troops were annihilated,

[7:137] We let the oppressed people inherit the land, east and west, and we blessed it. The blessed commands of your Lord were thus fulfilled for the Children of Israel, to reward them for their steadfastness, and we annihilated the works of Pharaoh and his people and everything they harvested.

[28:5] We willed to compensate those who were oppressed on earth, and to turn them into leaders, and make them the inheritors.

2- The earth shall be inherited very soon by the Submitters to God alone,

[21:105] We have decreed in the Psalms, as well as in other scriptures, that the earth shall be inherited by My righteous worshipers.

[21:106] This is a proclamation for people who are worshipers.

-------------------------------

How to be a winner?
God provides the answer through Noah:

[71:10] "I said, `Implore your Lord for forgiveness; He is Forgiving.

[71:11] " `He will then shower you generously with rain.

[71:12] " `And provide you with money and children, and orchards, and streams.' "

-------------------------------


Denounce the devil and his allies, get rid of all the satanic ideas of assigning powers to Jesus, he was no more than a human messenger who ate food and walked in the markets.

If you think he is the only hero, he is the spirit that dwells in the human beings...etc, then you haven't understood the message.

There is no god but God.

He is much exalted than anything we can imagine, none equals Him.



Sura - 112 Absoluteness (Al-Ikhlaas)
Order Of Revelation 22, Verses: 4

[112:0] In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[112:1] Proclaim, "He is the One and only GOD.

[112:2] "The Absolute GOD.

[112:3] "Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten.

[112:4] "None equals Him."

freeman
12-11-2004, 07:47 AM
Denounce the devil and his allies, get rid of all the satanic ideas of assigning powers to Jesus, he was no more than a human messenger who ate food and walked in the markets.

You're a very persuasive man, Ahmad, and you might have even convinced me, if it weren't for my unpleasant association with the dark, demonic, spiritual forces of freemasonry.
Within the masonic lodge, ALL gods are worshipped with the exception of one: Jesus Christ. He is the only deity whose very name can get you expelled if you mention it at the wrong time.
Knowing what I know about my freemasonic friends, there is no doubt in my mind that the only god they wouldn't revere is the one most dangerous to them as children of Satan, the Prince of Darkness who masquerades as the Lord of Light.
Remember, Mary, simple deductive reaoning: When all other logical alternatives have been eliminated, that which remains is the solution.

Ahmad
12-11-2004, 08:35 AM
peace freeman,


If you want to worship Jesus and devote yourself to a human postman instead of the sender of the message God, then nobody can stop you!

What i can do is to warn you that the direct consequence of believing in a creature instead of God is the torment of hell in the hereafter and the retribution of humiliation in this life.

Bear witness that i submit to the Creator, God alone, nothing and nobody besides Him.

sablefish
12-12-2004, 10:09 PM
http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirImages/Shamir/Theopolitics.htm
On the many-coloured Hans Buenting Map (1581), our world looks like a flower; its three petals present the three continents of Europe, West Asia, Africa, united by the Holy Land. The map allows for a different reading, too: the flower is the faith of Christ and Our Lady, and the three petals are Islam, Catholicism and Orthodoxy. While the Westerners preferred to view Islam as an antithesis of Christianity, Eastern Christians, notably St John the Damascene, considered Islam as another Christian Church, on a par with the Western Catholic Church. Indeed, Islam with its veneration of Christ and Sitt Maryam is not farther away from Orthodoxy than icon-less priest-less anti-Marian Calvinists. The three churches offer different readings of the same concept: the Orthodox stress Christ Resurrected, the Catholics concentrate on Christ Crucified, and the Muslims follow the Holy Spirit. The Orthodox rejection of filioque is their additional link with Islam; theological proximity grounded in geographical proximity.

This vision of Islam as of the third great church of our oikouménè is basic to our understanding of the Middle East war. Indeed, there are many ways to interpret the conflict: political economy, demography, geopolitics and race theory offer their conflicting interpretations. The problem is, none work very well. A strong feeling that the problem calls for a religion-derived explanation found its expression in Huntington’s “Clash of Civilisations” doctrine positioning “Islam vs Christianity” as a repeat of the mediaeval Crusades. Its vulgar, down-to-earth application can be found in every mainstream Western newspaper from the NY Times to Berlusconi’s empire, brought to its extreme by Oriana Fallaci and Ann Coulter.

But the conflict between the three great churches is over – for better or for worse, chivalrous knights in red pelerines over shiny armour won’t ride again in the hills of Palestine and the fields of Poitou exclaiming Lumen Coeli towards the equally noble and valiant Saracens with their green banner. Their areas of influence are well established, and small border skirmishes and soul poaching are just for keeping the braves awake. There is no ‘Islamic threat to Catholicism’ or ‘Catholic threat to Orthodoxy’, though many people would bet otherwise.

The Orthodox Christians of Greece and Russia, of Palestine and Syria fully share the views of Muslims and are equally hostile to the American invasion. The attempts to instil pro-American sentiment in Moscow and Athens invariably fail. “Their [the Orthodox] views seem to have more in common with public opinion in Cairo or Damascus than in Berlin or Rome”, admitted The Wall Street Journal. So much for the silly concept of conflict between Christendom and Islam. In my view, and in this article, ‘Christianity’ includes Islam and the great Apostolic Churches of East and West.

Huntington’s theory, albeit erroneous, is based on the deep foundations of theopolitics, a word unknown to the Microsoft Word dictionary but introduced by Carl Schmitt. This great thinker is hard to position, for he is claimed as their own by Nazis and Neo-cons, Deconstructionists and Anti-globalists, thinkers as different as Leo Strauss and Giorgio Agamben, Huntington and Derrida. In Schmitt’s view, “all of the most pregnant concepts of modern doctrine are secularized theological concepts.”

The “liberal democracy and human rights” doctrine carried by the US marines even across Tigris and Oxus is a crypto-religion, an extreme heretical form of Judaised Christianity. Alexander Panarin, a modern (deceased) Russian political philosopher, noticed the anti-Christian character of the American doctrine: “The new American vision of de-contextualised Goods and their de-socialised Consumers is a heathen myth”; in his view the US doctrine represents a lapse into heathendom.

In my view, this new religion can be called Neo-Judaism; its adepts imitate classic Jewish attitudes; Jews often act as priests of the new faith and they are considered sacred by its adepts. Indeed, while mosques burn in Netherlands and churches are ruined in Israel, no emotions are stirred in comparison to those set in motion when graffiti is written on a synagogue wall. The US grades its allies by their attitude towards Jews. The Holocaust Temple [“Museum”] stands next to the White House. Support of the Jewish state is a sine qua non for American politicians.

Everybody can become one of the “Chosen” of the new faith – the choice is yours; the Newest Covenant admits both Gentiles and Jews; worship Mammon, disregard Nature, Spirit, Beauty, Love; feel you’re belonging to a race apart, prove it by some this-worldly success - and you can enter it. On the other hand, every Jew can opt out of it; there is no biological guilt or virtue.

Tell me what you think avout this one...O.K.?.. I like you.

http://www.israelshamir.net/shamirImages/Shamir/Theopolitics.htm

marypopinz
12-12-2004, 10:25 PM
Sable... great perspective, thank you

Maryx

nohope187
12-12-2004, 11:34 PM
So much to read on this topic, my eyes starting to hurt. As I have nothin' useful to add and it's past my bed time, later all. :-P

Akbar
12-13-2004, 02:28 PM
It's foolish to present Christanity as a religion that came in peace. The history of Christanity is established in blood through war. The only people it has helped are Caucasians. Christanity has only gone into the third world after Western governments has destroyed those governments through war ( fiancial, psychological, and spiritual). What group of people outside of Caucasians have established a great self sufficient civilization under Christanity. Islam can point to several groups of people outside of Arabs who have built great civilizations that were self sufficient. In fact Islam is the only religion or ideology that has been proven successful with the most races.

marypopinz
12-13-2004, 03:01 PM
Akbar

No religion comes in peace. Region is the oldest form of politics in the world. Teliing the people what to believe and controlling them through fear.

Almost all people are scared of death and religion supposes to have the answers. Religion may offer ideas of absolute truths, like murder is bad and yet, in some cases, it is good. Not quite so absolute...

Religion is what divides us, not what unites us.

Religion is my God is greater than yours.

Faith is my God is your God.

Faith is I'll see you in heaven, my brother

Faith is tomorrow, this whole ball game could change... if we only had faith, instead of religion and fear.

We place so much blind faith in evil. Is is beyond our programming to believe in anything good? I believe in my children. They are good and they are worth fighting for. I believe in a bright future, sans corruption. We just need a miracle to set it in motion. It'll come.

You may not have faith and I do.
God does help those who help themselves.

That's my conclusion. Religion can be a tool to conquer and divide or unite, like a book. I trust God will shine the light of truth. The mushroom sheeple are just having a hard time getting used to the light.

Mary XXX

marypopinz
12-13-2004, 03:55 PM
55132 I have read the bible and the Quran. I started at genesis. And U?

Every study any other religions to find their common ground or were you only looking for difference?

Think with your Christian heart

mary XXX

Akbar
12-14-2004, 09:55 AM
Mary,
It's true that religion has been used for violence. I agree with you 100%. I disagree when Islam is being attacked in the name of defending Western Civilization. Both sides of the socalled Muslim fanatics and Christian fanatics are being used to bring about a third world war. We must study our history. Western Civilization borrowed most of it's great ideas from Islam. A point of reference is Spain under the leadership of the Muslims for over 500 years. This was a time when Spain was the light of the world. This light spread to the rest of Europe and resurrected the people. I am not against Christianity, Jews, any race or idealogy. We should seek common ground to work through our differences. Islam and the Western world can work together to bring in a new peace for all of humanity. It will take a lot from both sides to get to this point. The West must finally tell the people what they have borrowed from Islam and how it helped them get to the point where they are now. The Muslim world must learn from the West and leave behind all superstitions and false pride. The Muslim world is told in the Holy Quran to educate all of humanity. Due to their failure to do this Allah is currently punishing them for their disobedience. The West led by the United States is educating it's people, so Allah blesses them. Allah wants man to be educated so he will study the environment with his mind and come to the conclusion that there is a God behind this creation. The first word in the Holy Quran is Read! It's not talking about the Holy Quran, it's referring to the nature environment.

peace

666
12-14-2004, 10:04 AM
my 2 cents concerning Islam

If Muslims are so smart with over 1 BILLION

believers how come less than 13 million Jews

make them not look too smart ?

In other words wouldn't whoever has The Truth

rule over those who do not have The Truth or

less of it ?

marypopinz
12-14-2004, 10:15 AM
Akbar... well said.

How about the same idea from a different perspective?

Instead of my religion does this right and your religion does that wrong...

How about what is the truth?

God is good. There are good things in both our cultures and religions and religious books; this I believe. We also have a lot of bad things on both sides.

If we start talking and become friends, a true friend will not tell me what to believe. He will not try to assert his thoughts upon my own.

A true friend will tell me the truth; day to day, family stories, things they've witnessed and their ideas of what works for them.

Praying lots is good in my books. Moslem pray a lot. To me that is good. I do not believe the dogma is so important as is the when in time or the where, facing east or in a church; I believe an open heart is what matters.

If we share our thoughts, in an honest fashion without trying to degrade or belittle the other... and started to see the beauty of each others cultures.

Unfortunately, the myth that was a Western education is a relic of the past. The Deweyites and satanists are denying literacy and numeracy to fewer and fewer each year.

i.e. a high school class in Florida has 70 students. Not good. See sex abuse thread and see exactly what our "christian" government is capable of. And the West wants to criticize the Talliban? They may have brutalised women and they aren't the ones molesting the children,last I heard.

Peace Mary XXX

666
12-14-2004, 10:21 AM
Quote
-------------------------------------
If we start talking and become friends, a true friend will not tell me what to believe.
-------------------------------------

This is EXACTLY the Jewish point of view.

Notice how they do NOT preach to others to become

Jews ? Isn't that proof of their genius ?

Ahmad
12-14-2004, 10:32 AM
Peace Akbar,


No insult intended but it is Satan's idea to divide the people into many religions, mainly Judaism, Christianity and Islam.

We can witness here the expected result of this devision. Some say Christianity is the best and all the Christians are God's people, anyone else is Satan's. Same for the muslims they say the same, they are the best and all else are disbelievers. Same for the Jewish, they believe they are God's chosen.

Here is the Truth, the absolute Truth from God:

1- The three major religions are corrupt forms of the Original, One religion, Submission. Abraham was the first to call the sincere, Submitters.

2- The Torah, and the Bible are in the major part from God, however they got injected with ideas exalting priests, prophets and messengers beside God.

3- Submission, the original religion is based on God's final testament (which is proven by the miracle of 19) Quran, and nothing else.

4- Quran confirms and supersedes the previous scriptures.

5- Submission is destined to prevail and all the current religions will fade out God willing.

6- The United Submitters Nation will be established on earth very soon by a major earthquake (God willing 12,16), anybody can join this kingdom of God, regardless of his gender, color, race, looks, status, nationality...etc.


Ahmad NishiToba

Akbar
12-14-2004, 10:35 AM
Mary,
You are correct. The spirit of the Holy Quran states that anyone rather Christian, Jew, Muslim, any religion or not. As long as they believe in God and do right will make it to heaven. The hadith that corresponds with this is the Prophet's saying that true religion is sincerity. If you are sincere in your belief then Allah welcomes you to paradise. The Holy Quran is the only revelation that states that those of other religions will be in Heaven along with Muslims. I understand your spirit Mary. but out of the current revelations, only the Holy Quran gives support to your good spirit of brotherhood.

peace

Ahmad
12-14-2004, 10:43 AM
Peace Akbar,

The Hadith you mention is a Satanic idea, the prophet himself said that anyone who wrote something from his sayings, should erase it. His only duty was delivering Quran. Same like the Talmoud, the Hadith is a racist book.

You mention one verse from Quran that says that everybody may enter Heaven, however i must say that none can enter Heaven except if he or she worships God alone, i.e: don't idolize a person or a thing.

Jesus, Muhammad and Moses were just righteous human beings, now that they departed, they have left us their message, would we ignore the message and worship dead people?

I invite you to discard the Hadith &Sunna books and embrace Submission to God alone, using Quran alone proven by the miracle of 19, God's sign to all humanity.

Akbar
12-14-2004, 10:48 AM
666,
I agree with you. There is a saying that the average human being only uses 5% of his brain! The current Muslims are not so smart. They are not following the wisdom of their religion. They only follow the rituals. When they return to the wisdom of their religion, then they will return to the excellence. I agree with Ahmad, most of the socalled Muslim world is in complete darkness. They think that they are following true Islam, but they are not. The earlier Muslims were highly successful and they built great civilizations. If they were following true Islam then they would be successful too. Everthing that a Muslim does have a symbolic meaning. The 5 prayers mean that your rational mind has to submit to Allah. The average Muslim has not submitted to Allah with his rational mind. They only rely on the 5% of their mind, which really is not their mind. It is the Jew. The saying that the average human being only uses 5% of his mind means that the avergae human being relies on the Jew for his livelihood. So this is why the small amount of Jews control the Muslims. Only a return to true Islam can free them from this disgraceful position.

peace

666
12-14-2004, 10:58 AM
Quote

------------------------------------------
The earlier Muslims were highly successful and they built great civilizations.
------------------------------------------

How do you explain that ever since the Hebrew

slaves were freed they became masters of the

world in EVERY age until today ?

How do you explain that unlike the Christians

and the Muslims the Jews believe they will

do MORE with less ?

Isn't this proof of divine wisdom ?

If the Torah was corrupted why do they perform

modern day miracles ?

Ahmad
12-14-2004, 11:00 AM
Peace 666,


All in accordance with God's master plan,

Please check:

http://www.usn2161.net/israel.html

666
12-14-2004, 11:06 AM
thanks Ahmad I will definitely read it ...

kindly submit more information if you have it.

:-D

Akbar
12-14-2004, 11:07 AM
Peace Ahmed,
This saying in the Holy Quran is speaking to the sincerity of the individual. It is directing the individual away from all of these man made religions used to control the minds of the people.
Allah wants the mind of the people for his worship only. I do not call Christians who believe in the trinity idol worshipers. The word idol that is used in the scriptures is referring to those who base their life in accords with an idea that encompasses their total life and take them away from the rememberance of God. So Allah is saying in this verse that he is going to judge the individual on his sincerity.


peace

marypopinz
12-14-2004, 11:11 AM
Akbar, I got a lot of my ideas from Jesus.

The things he said, that I have read and come to understand myself, obviously nowhere to his depth of knowledge and faith.

I believe he came to reveal the spirit of humanity: love = God... the thing that makes this whole thing possible.

Please don't assume that I would deny the love that Jesus stood for in his words and his deeds. The Quran is not the whole picture... it is a piece. It may be your entire perspective and it is an understanding of my own.

I believe in God.
I believe in what unites us.
I believe in peace.

The devil can rot in hell and hell was not meant to be this beautiful place called earth.

We, humanity achieved this. Those who would do the devil's work are many and they are weak. Nothing is greater than God's love and mercy. A force that will bring peace to this earth.

We, humanity must accept accountability and stop blaming books and religions, races and cultures or the beast - the government.

It is we who hold the power to change this world.
Through us, God can and will achieve miracles. If we believe. Watch this space.

Peace and Justice 4 all

Mary XXX

marypopinz
12-14-2004, 11:15 AM
666

no offence meant or taken and dude I am not Jewish.

I just don't like anyone telling me what to think so i try not to do it.

I voice my opinion, and that is exactly what it is my perspective.

It is true there are all types of traps to lure people into religion... seems honesty is very rarely used when attracting people to cults and satanic crap; always half truths and half lies.

Peace Bruv

Mary XXX

Akbar
12-14-2004, 11:22 AM
666,
The Jews have done a lot with much less, but that does not make them superior in God's eyes. The Jews were favored by God to lead all of mankind to his worship. They have failed miserably in this mission. They have chose to do the opposite of what God wanted. Instead of leading man to God's worship they created a religion that they use to lead mankind to worship them. As I stated earlier, the first revelation in the Holy Quran is to read. Allah wants humanity to be educated. So if the Jews have this great knowledge then there obligation is to share it with humanity. Due to a small number of them in the leadership they refuse God's demand out of arrogance. So 666, the Holy Quran invites the Jews to return back to the worship of God. There are some Jews who have answered the call. but there is that siniter few who are set on enslaving mankind for their benefit.

peace

666
12-14-2004, 11:33 AM
Akbar what do we you believe we

should do to correct this situation ?

Akbar
12-14-2004, 12:47 PM
666,
If you are Jewish and you are wise. Then you should be able to see for yourself that there is a group amongs you that are teaching against the revelations Moses (prayers and peace upon him) brought to the Jews. Your teachings state that there should be nothing associated with God. Yet, the Jews who began Christianity associated Jesus with God. The gentiles did not know any better, they were pagans before Christianity. Those Jews did know better, but they thought up a scheme to conquer the Romans. So they invented a religion to conquer them. They control the minds, hearts, and souls, of the gentiles. I know they laugh when they hear a white christian racist defaming Jews. I know they laugh to themselves to say if they were smart they would realize that if they say Jesus is the son of god, then god himself have to be Jewish. Like father, like son?
The best way to stop this madness is to educate the people, but it will be extremely hard to inform someone that their belief was a lie given to them to enslave them. No matter how much reasoning you bring, it will only lead them to further madness. The down fall of western civilization will not be Islam, it will be their understanding of God given to them through Christianity. It was designed to lead them to worship Isreal as the true god. Thank God I came to reason.

peace

marypopinz
12-14-2004, 01:12 PM
Akbar,

I beg to differ. I worship God and God alone.

Keep arguing the toss over religion... be politicians. Don't forget you're not supposed to focus on God or heaven or peace or hope.

You keep pointing out who is wrong. I am a deluded brainwashed Christian, you would assume? Give over.

I ask again what is the promise of the Quran war or peace.

Hello?

Lights on and the moslem ain't answering the christian. I'll see you in heaven, my moslem brother. You are in for a rude awakening. Apparently, so are most.

God doesn't have any favorites you dummies. You'll learn one day.

mary XXX

666
12-14-2004, 02:59 PM
Quote
------------------------------------------
God doesn't have any favorites you dummies.
------------------------------------------

lol please no insults we are all passionate

about seeking peace in this world.

History and reality is clear that God IS a racist

because the revelation was made to a race. This

is fact. The question is which race.

marypopinz
12-14-2004, 04:51 PM
My apologies,please accept.

I guess this racist god and this chosen race is what humanity is dying to find out about.

Take care, God Bless

666 you said ita ll. What more can I add after that comment?

God Day

Mary XXX

Ahmad
12-15-2004, 05:29 AM
You should repent to God for such a blasphemy!

You said: "History and reality is clear that God IS a racist because the revelation was made to a race. This is fact. The question is which race."


Satan is RACIST, Satan stresses on the differences between us to make us bully, attack and eventually kill each other. His desire is to e-rase the human race.

The only criteria that God mentions in His Quran to distinguish between people is REVERENCE,

Unfortunately the majority are stuck in the visible, and duped by Satan to attack anybody who is different. They failed the test miserably.

[49:13] O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most reverent. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant.


The verse says it all, all the differences (gender, race, colour, language...etc) are meant as a test, those who cannot see past the visible, are worshipping Satan. As for the reverent they can recognize the sincere regardless of their looks or bloodlines.

marypopinz
12-15-2004, 09:21 AM
Ahmad, my Moslem brother... we are on the same page... at last

And what of those who cannot see past religion?

Peace
Mary XXX

KennyWally
07-08-2008, 01:51 AM
Remember not to judge, that God's job. If you believe you are speaking the truth, all the power to you. And don't ask me again to turn away from my brother, Jesus Christ, who showed me God's love.


Mary XXX


I just got a great e-mail on judging;

[ Christians should judge and Christians should not judge- both are true. ]

Should Christians Judge? (http://www.thestormshelter.net/judging.html)