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View Full Version : Junior economics question: would a barter economy defeat the private banks?


Thumper
11-03-2005, 01:44 PM
since a barter economy is about exchange for things we consider meaningful (i.e. gold, precious metals, livestock, etc.), would that defeat the monopoly that private banks have on creating currency?

It seems that with a commonly accepted currency, they have established a 'choke point' for control. But with a barter economy, the illuminati would have to control many, many resources, to affect things like inflation and whatnot, and that seems less likely.

whaddya guys think?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/raichu4u/wiggle.gif

Insider
11-03-2005, 02:14 PM
I wish it would, but I think we are too far gone. We have all been complacent about things for too long and only a true and universal revolution with serious rebellion might change things. Alas this has not worked in the past. The American Federal Reserve System is a true monster.

Thumper
11-03-2005, 02:21 PM
Insider wrote:
I wish it would, but I think we are too far gone. We have all been complacent about things for too long and only a true and universal revolution with serious rebellion might change things. Alas this has not worked in the past. The American Federal Reserve System is a true monster.But all it would take is that we stop using their money to purchase things.

It could start off as a grass roots movement, kinda like Ithaca dollars. It would have to start in an independant farming community though, since people who live in urban settings don't really produce anything of value anymore.

Shannow
11-03-2005, 03:10 PM
In Oz, they've got that base covered.

The "monetary value" of the trade is taxable.

So if I swap you two goats for a steer, we both owe the Oz Govt tax on whatever they deem the transaction to be worth.

Don't know how enforcable it is, but the laws are there.

Barbara
11-03-2005, 03:13 PM
Thumper, I tend to agree with Insider. It has gone too far. Chances are the mortgage company where you send your house/farm payment won't take Barter Bucks, maybe not even the finance company who owns your car/truck. Utilities????

We are so damnable tied into this system that we will have to treat it like the tares. Bundle it up and cast it into the fire, once and for all.

Arjuna
11-03-2005, 03:25 PM
A barter economy would defeat fraudulent banking practices. Private banks would still exist, but their business practices would become fair and honest.

The key concept to understand here is the concept of "intrinsic value".

intrinsic: belonging to the real nature of a thing; inherent

value: that quality of a thing that which makes it more or less desirable, useful, etc.

For example, a bushel of wheat has inherent value. Wheat is valuable because everybody needs to eat, and most people eat wheat. If you have some wheat, you can eat it or trade it to someone else. Five bushels of wheat is exactly five times as valuable as one bushel. You cannot counterfeit a bushel of wheat. In fact, a bushel of wheat is exactly 8 gallons of wheat. That is the inherent quality of the bushel of wheat: you have to have enough grains of wheat to fill up 8 gallons. You can't fake it.

A piece of paper also has inherent value. It is a product that requires effort to manufacture, and it can be used for many purposes. If you have a surplus of paper, you can trade it to someone else, because almost everbody uses paper.

However, does a piece of paper, with the number 100 written on it, have 100 times the intrinsic value of a piece of paper with the number 1 written on it? Certainly not! For virtually all purposes, the 2 pieces of paper have the same intrinsic value.

The fraud of modern banking is all based on the fraud that the 2 pieces of paper have vastly different values. Fooling the populace into believing this makes it possible for the banks to acquire items having intrinsic value in exchange for counterfeit items that do not: paper money or their electronic equivalents. The banking industry has amassed tremendous wealth through this fraud.

A barter economy is based on the requirement that all trades involve the exchange of items having equivalent intrinsic values, where those equivalent values are determined by the participants in the trade. Counterfeiting in all of its forms is prohibited.

Banks would still exist in such an economy, but their profits would be a tiny fraction of what they currently earn (steal). Banks would still offer a place to safely store items of value, and the ability to earn interest through the lending of items of value.

Of course, for general trading puposes, certain items having intrinsic value would become the most popular. Throughout history the best choices have been metals, since metals are rare, non-perishable, and easily divisible. Gold and silver have always been the most popular in the past, and would likely become popular again. A reasonable approach that many people might choose to adopt would be to value various items in terms of gold; the unit of measure might be 1 gram of gold, and each item would be worth so many grams of gold. In fact, such a method of trading, called e-gold (http://e-gold.com/), already exists. The barter economy already exists on a small scale. The challenge is to rid the economy of the fraudulent counterfeiting practices of banks.

Here is an excellent explanation, in the form of a story, of how the fraud of counterfeit money is perpetrated by banks. It makes very clear how banks use a shell game to fleece the populace. Understanding the truth of this story reveals the barter economy as vastly superior to trading with intrinsically worthless, government issued counterfeit money.

I Want The Earth Plus 5% (http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_99/hannigan092099.html)

psholtz
11-03-2005, 04:05 PM
I would say no..

The problem is not w/ cash or banking per se, the problem is that all currency in circulation today is debt-bearing interest. Therein lies the *real* threat..

Thumper
11-03-2005, 06:45 PM
Shannow wrote:
In Oz, they've got that base covered.

The "monetary value" of the trade is taxable.

So if I swap you two goats for a steer, we both owe the Oz Govt tax on whatever they deem the transaction to be worth.

Don't know how enforcable it is, but the laws are there.but that's the thing. It's impossible to enforce.

truebeliever
11-03-2005, 06:55 PM
Money is not a bad thing, nor the interest even. It's that the sheeple continue to sell their souls for it. They want security over freedom...so they pay the price.

I have agreat documentary on people in Argentina. One group has sold their soul for "cash" and work near their sea side village collecting abalone for a sea food company...to get cash to buy "things". They work day and night for the promise of riches and their village and social ties suffer. On paper they are involved in the global economy and going places.

Another village works for NO ONE. They grow all their own food. They make their own clothes. They are complete paupers on paper but they live like Kings. They sell the occasional bit of produce to purchase "things".

Through their toil comes their social life as they work together, celebrate the harvest and give thanx for a life of "practical" abundance.

Their kids are happy and smiling and jumping around being kids. Working too with their community doing their bit and loving the meaningful toil that brings them closer together. We dump our kids with strangers before heading off to the office to toil.

Not a useless coffee machine widget in sight in this community.

We traded REAL POWER over our lives for the promise of 30 peices of silver and now experience "power" grazing for useless widgets we do not need though we spend alot of time convincing ourselves we do.

We are drug addicts and it will take a catastrophe to break the spell.

Thumper
11-03-2005, 06:56 PM
that was extremely informative Arjuna, thanks!

I also imagine that since we are dealing with 'real commodities' that economies would be smaller and more localized, yes?

this
11-03-2005, 07:12 PM
Junior economics - we wish. What econo-myst is aware or cares about the basics the whole economy is built on?

I think I would agree more with psholtz here. Money as we call it has been of use as well as obvious detriment. Barter certainly is useful, but yes Canada also considers this 'taxable'.

What we have in money is a time sensitive trading medium that degenerates to zero over time, and worse owes 'interest' on top. We have a negative medium of exchange which is reflected in national, business and personal 'debts'.

I'm skeptical of gold, since banksters presumably control most of it, and since it has no obvious use.

There are innumerable ways of replacing the current system, but until it is wiped clean, governments will perform their prime directive of robbing you blind to pay the banksters.

Insider
11-03-2005, 07:18 PM
What we have in money is a time sensitive trading medium that degenerates to zero over time, and worse owes 'interest' on top. We have a negative medium of exchange which is reflected in national, business and personal 'debts'.

I want to remember the 1ST sentence of the above quote. This is exactly what I have been telling my friends, but did not express this well. I particularly like this: "Money is a time sensitive trading medium that degenerates to zero over time". This is well said.

eddie
02-09-2006, 04:06 AM
yes.i think so.
if i borrow a milking cow for a while,do i have to pay two cows back?
http://www.freedomfiles.org/
read the book from mary.
the other thing i have been thinking about is a time bank.{if there is any.lol} :-)

blackstarr
02-10-2006, 10:15 AM
I think it would be much better for banks to be controlled at the local level than globally. Also, Interest should not be charged twice as must as inflation. I think if we had these few changes we would have much more flow of resources to the common man.