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Barbara
11-04-2005, 01:10 PM
Since so many of you on this forum are Christian, it might be informative to pull verses from the Bible and let you give your thoughts on them. Let's start with:

##########################################

Job 1:6-7
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord and Satan came also among them.

And the Lord said unto Satan, "Whence comest thou?" Then Satan answered the Lord and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

##########################################

Job 2:1-2
Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them to present himself before the Lord.

And the Lord said unto Satan, "From whence comest thou?" And Satan answered the Lord, and said, "From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it."

##########################################

If you have a verse(s) that you puzzle over or particularly want to discuss, add another thread.

nohope187
11-04-2005, 01:16 PM
I use those same verses quoting the devil at church when the pastor asks what I've been up to lately. hehehe. :-P

Akbar
11-04-2005, 04:39 PM
Sons of god? I thought Jesus was the only son of god? The question you should ask is why is satan making a cross on earth? It only means that satan is using religion to turn the people away from worshipping God. He has the people worshipping him. The sons of god are praying to God. God asked satan how did you get into the prayer that should be for God. Basically, how did you get the sons of god to worship you. Satan's response is he makes the symbol of a cross. Just get a pen and some paper. Take the pen and write on the paper the movements that satan decribes. What does it look like? Jesus died on the cross?

psholtz
11-04-2005, 04:56 PM
Akbar wrote:
Sons of god? I thought Jesus was the only son of god?
This has grown to be an utterly *collossal* stumbling block for Christians.. not really sure how or why it came about, probably some combination of St. Paul and Emperor Constantine..

nomad
11-04-2005, 05:54 PM
How about the fact the the original brain behind

the brilliant idea of Problem Reaction Solution

is none other than God himself ?

truebeliever
11-04-2005, 06:59 PM
How about the fact the the original brain behind the brilliant idea of Problem Reaction Solution is none other than God himself?

Ah yes! Brilliant NOMAD.

But is that God? Or Gods helper the devil?

I once had a dream where i walked around a street corner and their was God and the devil playing chess! I asked God why in the hell He was playing with his mortal enemy? He said that they had been friends for millenia and the devil was a vital part of his unfolding.

Whatever the truth of ancient mysteries and theological debate I have found from personal experience that when i stray from truth i get bonked on the head. When i deny my internal compass and for me ego's wishes head off south instead of north...so the lessons begin.

We are about to get a giant lesson because we refuse to grow up and take up our cross on this Earth.

God emptied himself of divine power and did it, so can we.

AKBAH: you are letting little predjudices get in the way of understanding. Who cares if Christ was Jewish? They earned the right. He did it for you too.

The 4 Gospels do it for me every time. The witness to these events. So full of little details and nuences that you would have to be a VERY cunning writer to make it sound like you are describing historical events. In fact when you see a movie that is REALLY good from the point of view of the writing, you can gaurantee the author is writing from personal experience. The only way you get the little details that make it authentic.

truebeliever
11-04-2005, 07:07 PM
Forgive me for making this self evident statement...women give birth and carry the future potential of life but is woefully under represented.

I have trouble saying God created everything. God gave form. But where is the mention of the "primae materia"? Where are the women of the Bible besides being whores and incidental Mothers?

I can understand Catholicism wanting to balance out the trinity but it appears to have been done ad hoc. Carl Jung had a big hand in that.

What of the stories that Mary Magdeline was told by Christ at the tomb that she would carry on and be head of the Church? But that this was ripped from the Gospel?

What King does not have a Queen?

That she should be a despised and shunned whore. Up for the gratifacation of men is instructful as that is the way men in general treat their feeling side and indeed their women. If it was'nt for this the feminazi's would never have gotton a foothold.

So learned religious scholars. Please enlighten me before breakfast.

Jimbo
11-04-2005, 11:46 PM
Freedom Of Speech – ??? :-o :-o :-o

Those son’s of bitches, censoring the “word,” again…

May they burn in their “hell” awaiting, for their evil deeds against our kind humanity. But, no, no, no,… I shouldn’t judge…
8-)

Akbar
11-05-2005, 03:32 PM
Once you learn the symbolism behind it then it would be crystal clear. I have learned not to view the prophets and other names in the Bible as individual people. I view them as concepts that have been personified. So to me Mary respresents a community of people who never had a prophet. So that makes it a virgin. Due to the community being pure and regardful of God. God blessed them with his "word" (Jesus). The Jewish leaders resented (Mary) because they no longer followed the words of the Rabbis, they followed the word of God. You see the father of Jesus means that the knowledge of Jesus came from God and not Jewish leadership. The battle between Jesus and the Jews were that they wanted to become gods on earth and Jesus only wanted to worship one God who was the creator of all. When you see it in this light then that should help see why things are happening today.

LaDominio
11-05-2005, 06:17 PM
Akbar wrote:
Sons of god? I thought Jesus was the only son of god? The question you should ask is why is satan making a cross on earth? It only means that satan is using religion to turn the people away from worshipping God. He has the people worshipping him. The sons of god are praying to God. God asked satan how did you get into the prayer that should be for God. Basically, how did you get the sons of god to worship you. Satan's response is he makes the symbol of a cross. Just get a pen and some paper. Take the pen and write on the paper the movements that satan decribes. What does it look like? Jesus died on the cross?

Hahah, nice work.

You hit the nail on the head! But isn’t this obvious by now? Or have I been talking to the wall?

Religion was converted to Satanism at the beginning of this era. There is proof of this. Ask me if you cannot see it.

Saturnino
11-06-2005, 05:28 AM
The sons of God controversy is really no controversy at all. It just means angels, who were created by God
The fact that Jesus was called Son of God (capital S) means that He is the Son in the godhead, a position, a function, not an indication of being an offspring. It indicates that He, even though being God Himself, subjects to the Father in certain matters, such as when He came to earth. That's their deal, so to speak. I guess they could have called God the boss and God the subordinate, but again that wouldn't be correct 100% because they are NOT inferior in any way to each other, but equal persons of the godhead doing different jobs.
The same explanation goes to the expression Son of Man. It indicates the human side of Jesus. He was both Son of God (fully God) and Son of Man (fully man).
He had to be a real man, and not a fake, so He could redeem men. Sin entered the world thru one man, Adam, and had to be dealt with by the sacrifice of a sinless man, Jesus.

About the other posts, one has to be very sure of what he is saying before confronting 2,000 years of scholarship and people who gave sometimes their lives to the study of the Bible. You don't just wake up and say that you think Jesus married Mary Magdalene. Most people who say those absurd things have never really read the Bible at all.

Another huge reason to believe that the Bible is true is that it is a book of Revelation, that God gave to men to direct and guide them in the way of salvation. If the Bible is tampered, a fake, it means God can't even do this one thing right, which is to guide us and preserve His own revelation in the way He wants. It means we are pretty much lost with a powerless God. Not the case !

igwt
11-06-2005, 05:45 AM
Saturnino wrote:
The sons of God controversy is really no controversy at all. It just means angels, who were created by God
The fact that Jesus was called Son of God (capital S) means that He is the Son in the godhead, a position, a function, not an indication of being an offspring. It indicates that He, even though being God Himself, subjects to the Father in certain matters, such as when He came to earth. That's their deal, so to speak. I guess they could have called God the boss and God the subordinate, but again that wouldn't be correct 100% because they are NOT inferior in any way to each other, but equal persons of the godhead doing different jobs.
The same explanation goes to the expression Son of Man. It indicates the human side of Jesus. He was both Son of God (fully God) and Son of Man (fully man).
He had to be a real man, and not a fake, so He could redeem men. Sin entered the world thru one man, Adam, and had to be dealt with by the sacrifice of a sinless man, Jesus.

About the other posts, one has to be very sure of what he is saying before confronting 2,000 years of scholarship and people who gave sometimes their lives to the study of the Bible. You don't just wake up and say that you think Jesus married Mary Magdalene. Most people who say those absurd things have never really read the Bible at all.

Another huge reason to believe that the Bible is true is that it is a book of Revelation, that God gave to men to direct and guide them in the way of salvation. If the Bible is tampered, a fake, it means God can't even do this one thing right, which is to guide us and preserve His own revelation in the way He wants. It means we are pretty much lost with a powerless God. Not the case !

Does that mean one should not worship the son of God? As Exodus 34:14 states:-

For thou shalt worship no other god: for the Lord whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God:

Saturnino
11-06-2005, 05:53 AM
Of couse we should ! Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping "the Lord" , since He is God. Remember that at that time, the coming of Jesus and the Trinity were mysteries yet to be revealed, but prophecized (spell ?) in several places to the Jews.

The "gods" mentioned in the Exodus text refer to demonic false gods, like Moloch, Astoreth, etc.

igwt
11-06-2005, 05:56 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Of couse we should ! Worshipping Jesus is the same as worshipping "the Lord" , since He is God. Remember that at that time, the coming of Jesus and the Trinity were mysteries yet to be revealed, but prophecized (spell ?) in several places to the Jews.

The "gods" mentioned in the Exodus text refer to demonic false gods, like Moloch, Astoreth, etc.

So it seems, The Lord Jesus Christ = Creator and therefore God.

Saturnino
11-06-2005, 06:23 AM
Since the Trinity subject is so controversial and comes up ALL THE TIME in this forum, I thought the following text could help to clarify the Christian perspective about it:

_______________________________________________

For there are three that bear record
in heaven, the Father, the Word, and
the Holy Ghost: and these three are
one (I John 5:7).

The above text is the clearest and most succinct statement of the doctrine of the Trinity in the Bible, but also probably the most controversial verse in the Bible. Many authorities believe it was not in John’s original epistle, but was added by some ancient copyist. Consequently, al-though it is in the King James Bible, most modern English translations omit it. There are others (including this writer) who are convinced it was in the original and should be retained.

In any case, the truth of the Trinity is taught in many other passages of the New Testament and does not depend on this particular verse. It is undoubtedly the most distinctive doctrine of the Christian faith. Most religions are either pantheis-tic (e.g., Buddhism) or polytheistic (e.g., Hinduism). Two other religions are monotheistic (Judaism, Islam), but only Christianity recognizes the one real God (the Triune God—Father, Son, Holy Spirit)—one God in three Persons.

The sacred book of the Muslims—the Koran—regards Jesus as only a prophet, repeatedly denouncing as infidels all those who believe in the Trinity. The Jews often consider Jesus to have been a great teacher, but no more than that. To the Christian, however, the Lord Jesus Christ is a person yet God incarnate, God’s only begotten Son—Creator, Savior, King of kings and Lord of lords. Christians also believe that the Holy Spirit is not just a spiritual influence, but a real person, the third Person of the Godhead.

When an individual becomes a Christian, he acknowledges it by being baptized in the "name [note, just a single name] of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" (Matthew 28:19). He believes in one God—but not the un-knowable, unapproachable "god" of Islam called "Allah."

Instead, he recognizes God as the infinite, invisible, omnipresent Father, but also as the Son, the visible, touchable, yet perfectly holy Word always revealing and manifesting the Father, and as the Holy Spirit, always present to guide, convict, and comfort. He is very real—eternal and invisible, omnipresent Father of all, yet visible and approachable through the Son and experienced and understood in the Holy Spirit.

Majestic mystery, but wonderful reality!

Christians believe in the Trinity—one God, not three gods, but three divine Persons, each equally and totally God. We cannot really comprehend this with our minds, but we can believe it and rejoice with our hearts. It is somewhat analagous to the "space" of God’s created universe. Space is comprised of three dimensions, each of which permeates all space. This structure is helpful to illustrate the nature of the triune God. That is, God is one God, not three gods. Yet He is revealed as three Persons, each of which is eternally and completely God.

This great truth appears again and again in the Bible—especially in the New Testament, of course. But one can also discern it here and there in the Old Testament.

For example, note Isaiah 48:16:

"Come ye near unto me, hear ye this;
I have not spoken in secret from the
beginning; from the time that it was,
there am I: and now the Lord GOD
and His Spirit, hath sent me."

Note here that the Son, the divine Word who is speaking, is being "sent" into the world by the Father and the Spirit.

But turning again to the New Testament, it is rather remarkable to note how all three Persons of the Godhead are significant in so many phases of the Christian life. First, as noted, the believer is baptized in the one Name but in every Person (Matthew 18:19) of the holy Trinity.

Then, as he begins his Christian life, all three are still actively involved.

"How much more shall the blood of Christ,
who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself
without spot to God, purge your conscience
from dead works to serve the living God?"
(Hebrews 9:14).

The actual event of salvation requires a miraculous creation, with the believer undergoing "regeneration," and thus being "born again." This tremendous miracle is indeed accomplished only by the working of all three Persons of the Godhead. As Paul wrote,

"God sent forth His Son. . . . To redeem them
that were under the law, that we might receive
the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons,
God hath sent forth the Spirit of His Son into your
hearts, crying, Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:4–6).

The apostle Peter also noted the action of every Person of the divine Godhead in the great work of saving those who trust in Christ: "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ" (I Peter 1:2).

An extremely important part of the Christian life from its very beginning is that of prayer. That also is accomplished daily with each person of the Trinity participating.

"For through Him [that is, through Christ the Son]
we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father"
(Ephesians 2:18).

When we pray, we normally pray to our heavenly Father (not to Jesus or the Holy Ghost). God, of course, can hear a sincere prayer, regardless of how addressed, but we should know that we are really coming through the Lord Jesus and in His good name by means of the indwelling Holy Spirit. (Note Matthew 6:9 and John 14:13.)

Once we have been born again by the regenerating miracle of the Holy Spirit, our bodies become His temple. But this also means that the triune God Himself is there through the Spirit. We can be

"strengthened with might by His Spirit in the inner
man; That Christ may dwell in [our] hearts by faith;
. . . that ye might be filled with all the fullness of
God" (Ephesians 3:16–17,19).

This was also implied in Christ’s original promise that He would send the Holy Spirit.

"I will pray the Father, and He shall give you
another Comforter, that He may abide with
you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth, . . . for
He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
I will not leave you comfortless: I will come
to you. . . . At that day ye shall know that I am
in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. . . .
If a man love me, he will keep my words:
and my Father will love him, and we will
come unto him, and make our abode with
him" (John 14:16–18,20,23).

At that time, Christ also promised that the Holy Spirit would teach us, and that this also would involve Himself as well as the Father.

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost,
whom the Father will send in my name, He
shall teach you all things" (v.26).

The pervasive content of His teaching would, of course, concern the Lord Jesus Himself, as directed by the Father,

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I
will send unto you from the Father, even
the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from
the Father, He shall testify of me" (15:26).

Thus, in a wonderful sense, the triune Godhead—Father, Son, and Holy Spirit— one and all live in each Christian believer, teaching, strengthening, convicting, comforting, and guiding him in answer to his prayers. This is the marvelous truth of the Trinity.

Keep in mind that there are three real Persons in the Godhead, not just three ways in which God reveals Himself. The Son prays to the Father, for example, and the Father sends the Holy Spirit when the Son returns to heaven.

Perhaps it is significant that the word "Godhead" appears just three times in the New Testament, each from a slightly different, though essentially synonymous Greek word. The first occurrence of "Godhead" is in Acts 17:29.

". . . we ought not to think that the Godhead
is like unto gold, or silver, or stone, graven
by art and man ’s device."

That is, no one can make a model of our three-in-one God—neither any kind of graven image nor some kind of philosophical construct.

But it seems that God Himself has made such a model.

"For the invisible things of Him from the
creation of the world are clearly seen,
being understood by the things that are
made, even His eternal power and
Godhead" (Romans 1:20).
This is the second mention of "Godhead."

That is, the creation itself can be seen as a model of the three-in-one Godhead. This remarkable fact cannot be discussed in the limited space here, but will be elaborated in more detail in the Back to Genesis section of the December issue of "Acts & Facts".
The physical universe is, in a very real sense, a trinity of trinities. Also, in a certain sense, human life is a trinity of body, soul, and spirit.

In fact, tri-unity in various ways is often seen in the creation (but note that a "trinity" is not an entity composed of three individual parts, like the sides of a triangle, but rather an entity of three parts, each of which is the whole).

Thus, although no man could ever model the Godhead, God has seemingly done this in His creation. But then the third mention of the Godhead is given in Colossians 2:9.

"For in [Christ] dwelleth all the fullness of
the Godhead bodily." Thus, the Lord Jesus
can say to His disciples: ". . . he that hath
seen me hath seen the Father" (John 14:9),

for He Himself is

"the image of the invisible God" (Colossians 1:15).

We can close with one more Biblical mention of the Trinity:

"The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and
the love of God, and the communion of
the Holy Ghost, be with you all" (II Corinthians 13:14).


*Dr. Henry M. Morris is Founder and President Emeritus of ICR.

© 2005 by ICR All Rights Reserved Single Copies 10¢ Order from: INSTITUTE FOR CREATION RESEARCH P.O. Box 2667, El Cajon, CA 92021 Available for download on our website (www.icr.org).

igwt
11-06-2005, 07:33 AM
Saturnino,

Excellent article you posted.

:lol:

redrat11
11-06-2005, 07:44 PM
Satan is real, satan is a fallen angel, what's so hard about that?

Insider
11-06-2005, 07:55 PM
If you don't understand the Bible then read it. Keep reading it until you do understand it. If you still do not understand at least some of it then that is a problem between you and GOD. Unless of course it is just a game played by a human who's world is dissolving around them now. In such a case, I do not have an answer.

madkhao
11-06-2005, 09:21 PM
I suggest reading Zechariah 1:8-15 to know more about satan walking to and fro in the earth. The myrtle trees are significant along with the red horses.
myrtle trees: myrtus communis
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2Fussr.jpg
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2FPRCFlag.jpg
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2FFrontEgg.jpg
just my speculation

11-06-2005, 09:54 PM
madkhao wrote:
I suggest reading Zechariah 1:8-15 to know more about satan walking to and fro in the earth. The myrtle trees are significant along with the red horses.
myrtle trees: myrtus communis
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2Fussr.jpg
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2FPRCFlag.jpg
http://ca.msnusers.com/uvk5ueh7t1eaqj2d4hnm12u3t5/Documents/Pictures%2FFrontEgg.jpg
just my speculation

When you bring attention to somethings, do you ever consider that not all things desire attention and that more harm than good may be done by your actions. Consider this.

madkhao
11-07-2005, 09:06 AM
When you bring attention to somethings, do you ever consider that not all things desire attention and that more harm than good may be done by your actions. Consider this.

I will consider this if you will explain it.
Of all the things shared and posted in this forum, why is it that this in particular does not desire attention? If it does not desire attention, do not bring more attention to it.

Job 13:25 wilt thou break a leaf driven to and fro? and wilt thou pursue the dry stubble?

11-07-2005, 09:30 AM
We will not, and suggest you do the same.

Akbar
11-09-2005, 06:21 AM
Saturnino,
What type of math are you using? Three separate entities that make up one? Example: Jim, Bill, and Hank are three separate persons, but they make up one individual entity that we call James. I don't see how people would allow their intelligence to be insulted like that. Again God does not give you a brain then give you something to insult the brain he gave you. Only satan will insult your brain and laugh at you while he is doing it. This is what the trinity does to the human brain.

11-09-2005, 07:55 AM
Akbar wrote:
Saturnino,
What type of math are you using? Three separate entities that make up one? Example: Jim, Bill, and Hank are three separate persons, but they make up one individual entity that we call James. I don't see how people would allow their intelligence to be insulted like that. Again God does not give you a brain then give you something to insult the brain he gave you. Only satan will insult your brain and laugh at you while he is doing it. This is what the trinity does to the human brain.

CASE IN POINT.

Saturnino
11-09-2005, 09:40 AM
Akbar,

You talk like a fool who wants to mock God's mysteries. That's why the Trinity is called a mystery, it was revealed but we can't understand it because we are not God. The ways of God are much higher than the ways of man. Be careful my friend, and repent.

Realize that Satan caused the visions to Mohamed only to lead the Arabs to hell. You know you really worship the moon goddess, don't you ?

Insider
11-09-2005, 09:54 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Akbar,

You talk like a fool who wants to mock God's mysteries. That's why the Trinity is called a mystery, it was revealed but we can't understand it because we are not God. The ways of God are much higher than the ways of man. Be careful my friend, and repent.

Realize that Satan caused the visions to Mohamed only to lead the Arabs to hell. You know you really worship the moon goddess, don't you ?

Saturino, I agree. One does not have to be a Christian to see the Difference between the Koran and the BIBLE. One just has to read them. The one idol in the Ka'ba that Mohamed did not throw out was the moon god.

noNWO4me
11-09-2005, 03:09 PM
truebeliever wrote:
Forgive me for making this self evident statement...women give birth and carry the future potential of life but is woefully under represented.

I have trouble saying God created everything. God gave form. But where is the mention of the "primae materia"? Where are the women of the Bible besides being whores and incidental Mothers?

I can understand Catholicism wanting to balance out the trinity but it appears to have been done ad hoc. Carl Jung had a big hand in that.

What of the stories that Mary Magdeline was told by Christ at the tomb that she would carry on and be head of the Church? But that this was ripped from the Gospel?

What King does not have a Queen?

That she should be a despised and shunned whore.
Up for the gratifacation of men is instructful as that is the way men in general treat their feeling side and indeed their women. If it was'nt for this the feminazi's would never have gotton a foothold.

So learned religious scholars. Please enlighten me before breakfast.

Very good there, TB!
Did you know that those old, gothic, pointed churches were built to honor the 'feminine' as part of the god-head. And oh yes, behind closed doors, the Freemasons revere the woman/feminine as part of the deity. But in everday life, they cheat on them left and right. The trinity is no other than male, female, and spirit.
Of course then there's: mind, body, spirit.

Insider
11-09-2005, 03:22 PM
The HOLY SPIRIT or SHEKINAH (O.T. Equivalent) is feminine.

noNWO4me
11-09-2005, 03:30 PM
Insider wrote:
The HOLY SPIRIT or SHEKINAH (O.T. Equivalent) is feminine.


actually i did read somewhere (now that I think of it0 that the 'unseen' is the feminine. very interesting

noNWO4me
11-09-2005, 03:43 PM
Jimbo wrote:
Freedom Of Speech – ??? :-o :-o :-o

Those son’s of bitches, censoring the “word,” again…

May they burn in their “hell” awaiting, for their evil deeds against our kind humanity. But, no, no, no,… I shouldn’t judge…
8-)

Actually, according to the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA, there is an admittance to forgery. Example stated was that Pope Stephen II went so far as to write a letter and sign St. Peter's name to it.
With this being so, then this gives the 'CHURCH' other motive and purpose: domination for one, followed by wealth and power.

Who's zoomin who?

Akbar
11-10-2005, 01:59 PM
Saturno,
The trinity was not a new concept that came with Christianity. It is a pagan belief that was also central to both Egyptian and Roman mythology. Please learn your religion and do research on the trinity belief. It is not a mystery of God. It was something borrowed from the pagans. The bible state that when Jesus return he will be coming out of the clouds, which means that he was going to bring clarity of God and our relationship to serving that God. This is what Muhammed did. He is the return of Christ.

Insider
11-10-2005, 02:30 PM
The word Trinity and the modern Christian concept of the Trinity is not mentioned in the BIBLE. When you look at a cube it has Height, Width, and Depth, But it is still the same CUBE.

Saturnino
11-10-2005, 03:12 PM
Akbar,

Since Satan knew God and the Trinity, the fact that he may have counterfeited the concept in one of his false religions doesn't mean anything.

Jesus was the one who revelead the concept to us. He was sinless and was able to come out of a grave and ascend to Heaven in front of a multitude.

Maybe you should learn more about the Moon Goddess and the pagan origins of Islam. After Mohammed, a sinner and a murderer, had his demonic trance and his visions, he borrowed a lot from Judaism and Christianity and made up the mess you believe today.

Bouncer
11-10-2005, 03:35 PM
I call to mind the account of Jesus' baptism by John; Jesus says that he was sent by the Father, and that he and the Father are one. When he was baptised by John, the Holy Spirit descended upon him. Three expressions of the Godhead were present at that time.

Insider
11-10-2005, 03:49 PM
Akbar,The Father, The Son, and The Holy Spirit are Three separate facets of the One GOD. These separate facets are also present in the Old Testament, but the term Trinity is not in the Bible. The human mind is not designed to comprehend GOD in any sense except what is allowed by GOD. Therefore to pretend to understand all the mysteries of GOD is a fallacy.

Akbar
11-10-2005, 10:21 PM
Saturnino,
The concept of the trinity was not brought by Jesus. You must remember the New testament was written over 250 years after Jesus. The fact remains that belief you claim to hold dear has pagan origins. Please learn more about you religion before you respond to me. And for all of the others who support the trinity belief your response is weak. Your only response is that it is a mystery, which means that if it is a mystery then God would have to send another revelation to make things clear to you. He does not want to be a mystary to you. Everything in creation points to the existence of a higher form of intelligence behind it. That is why he sent the holy Quran through Muhammed to bring man out of mystery of God.

igwt
11-10-2005, 10:41 PM
Think this thread has gone way off topic... :-o

11-10-2005, 10:43 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Glyph02.jpg

igwt
11-10-2005, 10:47 PM
What's with the art work?

Saturnino
11-11-2005, 06:02 AM
Of course Jesus backed the concept of Trinity, as the Bible shows. I have sent a text that explain it, go to the post and read it, or read the Bible, if the religious Muslim police allows you without killing you first.
Why should we listen to what Jesus said ? Because he fulfills hundreds of prophecies about Him, because He performed many miracles in front of multitudes, because He was ressurected from the grave, because He was the only sinless man to live, and because He makes sense.
The only thing Mohammed has to show was his visions and his demonic trances. In the same way Joseph Smith (mormons), Edgar Cayce and many other false prophets only have their visions to convince us. Why should anyone let go of Jesus to follow someone because of a vision if beyond my understanding. It must be a cultural thing: you were born in a Muslim country, automatically became one and never really thought about the fundaments of your faith. If you do thik about how fragile they are, you would drop Mohammed in a second.

Akbar
11-11-2005, 06:53 PM
Saturnino,
All of the info. about Jesus in the New Testaments are fourth hand information. They was written 250 years after him by people who did not know him. It is named after the apostles, but Christian scholars have concluded that it was not written by the apostles. You ask why would people convert to Islam? It is the only religion or ideology to have established great civilizations among the most diverse populations of people. This alone proves that it is the only true religion. When these races of people point to the great civilizations in their history, Islam would be prominent: Europeans, Turks, Persians, Indians, Arabs, Africans, Kurds, and a host of others. What other religion and ideology can state the same? When I say civilization I mean that it is independent and self sufficient. It is not a welfare state that rely on the charity of others for it's existence.

11-11-2005, 07:08 PM
Akbar wrote:
Saturnino,
All of the info. about Jesus in the New Testaments are fourth hand information. They was written 250 years after him by people who did not know him. It is named after the apostles, but Christian scholars have concluded that it was not written by the apostles. You ask why would people convert to Islam? It is the only religion or ideology to have established great civilizations among the most diverse populations of people. This alone proves that it is the only true religion. When these races of people point to the great civilizations in their history, Islam would be prominent: Europeans, Turks, Persians, Indians, Arabs, Africans, Kurds, and a host of others. What other religion and ideology can state the same? When I say civilization I mean that it is independent and self sufficient. It is not a welfare state that rely on the charity of others for it's existence.

You are incorrect in your statements and in danger of reproof.

Akbar
11-12-2005, 12:37 AM
What intelligent evidence do you have to reproof me. You have yet to do so in any of your post. I'm still waiting for your reproof.

Saturnino
11-12-2005, 08:28 AM
Akbar,

This is a conspiracy site. Religious posts are pertinent only when they relate to the new world order or when they explain spiritual aspects of conspiracies.
What you are doing here is proselitizing. Nobody wants to know what Islam did in the Renaissance or what the hell Mohammed said. No Christian here starts topics about religion.

There are 4 posts from you trying to evangelize people to your faith. It is not working, nobody here believes in Islam.

Please stop bothering everybody.

Akbar
11-12-2005, 08:58 AM
Saturnino,
I have not seen any signs of intelligence from you yet. I have never tried to call any one to Islam. Satan cannot become a Muslim. So why would I try to convert you. To you your way, and to me my way. What I post deal strictly with conspiracy and false religion is the greatest conspiracy because religion is being used to control the masses of people.

55132
11-12-2005, 09:12 AM
Ak,

You come in preching about islam and within our culture thats ok, when we counter your point you just jab at insignificant nuances.

there is a big difference between the quran and the bible, the quran are verses and sayings while the bibile is history, profecies and must be studied in context.

We know you are a bright guy, very zelous of your faith but you have to understand that many of us have looked into islam as well as into most other beliefs and while we find some good in islam as well as in other faiths there is now way we can accept knowing what we know that muhammed is gods prophet and allha is god.

because God would never have a prophet like muhamed nor would he write the most of things that is said in the quran.


How many quran profecies have come true?

Saturnino
11-13-2005, 11:35 AM
Akbar,

At least be honest. You are trying to convert people here. I think it is ok if you want to discuss the use of religion in the New World Order, but that's NOT what you are doing, coming with those low level posts about paedophilia in the Bible.

This kind of deception is typical of Islam. They say they are a religion of peace and want to kill all the "infidels". They say they like harmony but if you preach Jesus in their countries you are dead.

I'm politically against the war in Iraq and the independence of the Arab people. You guys have been stolen by the NWO enough. You have my sympathy.

But this doesn't give you the right to be a religious asshole and enter a forum ONLY to say stupid, baseless things about Christianity.

11-13-2005, 12:01 PM
Akbar wrote:
What intelligent evidence do you have to reproof me. You have yet to do so in any of your post. I'm still waiting for your reproof.

You have been reproofed by others. Additionally Satan does not need to become a Muslim. We will tell you again. WE ARE NOT A RELIGION, WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, WE ARE NOT JEWISH, WE ARE NOT ISLAMIC, WE ARE NOT HINDU. We do not ask any to believe any particular way and we do not seek to save. Our job is very simple, we warn those who would take the HOLY BIBLE lightly that the GOD of the Bible is described in the Bible truthfully and does do what has been recorded and has no problem doing it again. The Human race will go extinct in exact accordance with the Bible, but it will be LEGAL in accordance with GOD's word. What we say to you in this digital format is required of us. Your belief in our words or the words of the Bible is not important to the GOD of the Universe or us, but to you. Your removal requires that you of your own freewill have transgressed the law. The plan of ALMIGHTY GOD WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY YOUR BELIEF, BUT YOUR FUTURE WILL. Now foolish human it is up to you, for our digital pronouncement is hereby made. BY THE ELOHIM YOU ARE MADE AWARE, ALL WHO READ AND UNDERSTAND.

igwt
11-13-2005, 01:57 PM
anonymous___ wrote:

Akbar wrote:
What intelligent evidence do you have to reproof me. You have yet to do so in any of your post. I'm still waiting for your reproof.

You have been reproofed by others. Additionally Satan does not need to become a Muslim. We will tell you again. WE ARE NOT A RELIGION, WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, WE ARE NOT JEWISH, WE ARE NOT ISLAMIC, WE ARE NOT HINDU. We do not ask any to believe any particular way and we do not seek to save. Our job is very simple, we warn those who would take the HOLY BIBLE lightly that the GOD of the Bible is described in the Bible truthfully and does do what has been recorded and has no problem doing it again. The Human race will go extinct in exact accordance with the Bible, but it will be LEGAL in accordance with GOD's word. What we say to you in this digital format is required of us. Your belief in our words or the words of the Bible is not important to the GOD of the Universe or us, but to you. Your removal requires that you of your own freewill have transgressed the law. The plan of ALMIGHTY GOD WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY YOUR BELIEF, BUT YOUR FUTURE WILL. Now foolish human it is up to you, for our digital pronouncement is hereby made. BY THE ELOHIM YOU ARE MADE AWARE, ALL WHO READ AND UNDERSTAND.

Are you human?

LaDominio
11-13-2005, 03:02 PM
igwt wrote:
Are you human?




Yes, he/she is.

Everyone is basically right about religion. 'Humanity' will be extinct BUT, people will reach new form. Think of the soul as (for example) a TV screen. Many images can be played through it, but the screen will always be there, regardless of the changing images.

You cannot find the truth; you can only set sail and let God take you there.

How do you set sail? That’s what scripture is for.

11-13-2005, 04:23 PM
igwt wrote:

anonymous___ wrote:

Akbar wrote:
What intelligent evidence do you have to reproof me. You have yet to do so in any of your post. I'm still waiting for your reproof.

You have been reproofed by others. Additionally Satan does not need to become a Muslim. We will tell you again. WE ARE NOT A RELIGION, WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, WE ARE NOT JEWISH, WE ARE NOT ISLAMIC, WE ARE NOT HINDU. We do not ask any to believe any particular way and we do not seek to save. Our job is very simple, we warn those who would take the HOLY BIBLE lightly that the GOD of the Bible is described in the Bible truthfully and does do what has been recorded and has no problem doing it again. The Human race will go extinct in exact accordance with the Bible, but it will be LEGAL in accordance with GOD's word. What we say to you in this digital format is required of us. Your belief in our words or the words of the Bible is not important to the GOD of the Universe or us, but to you. Your removal requires that you of your own freewill have transgressed the law. The plan of ALMIGHTY GOD WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY YOUR BELIEF, BUT YOUR FUTURE WILL. Now foolish human it is up to you, for our digital pronouncement is hereby made. BY THE ELOHIM YOU ARE MADE AWARE, ALL WHO READ AND UNDERSTAND.

Are you human?

No, but you are and you are confined here and you will not leave here. If help comes you have always refused it. The human is such a fragile collection of organized energy that we suggest you study the only source you will ever have on your one choice, the Bible. Not as a bases for a religion but as a window to what your potential might be. The child hood of what you are now is coming to an end. Either choose to grow up through the only true source of knowledge you have been given or accept the consequences. The GOD of the Bible is GOD. GOD's actions in the Bible are not open to your questions and if you do not like it nothing beyond your world cares. The legal god of Earth is Satan and this will continue until Satan comes to you. Most of you will accept what he offers, but some may not. It is for those few that we write, because they have a way out if they will use it. The physical Earth will continue and can not be destroyed by you no matter how much you try. You humans will not continue in your form, but will be changed into another form neither chosen nor designed by you.
At that point there will be no more debate of any kind and the final filter will be in place. Many will not choose to go on, but some will. To those few our our word is presented. The ultimate choice is yours.

11-14-2005, 06:37 AM
What type of math are you using? Three separate entities that make up one? Example: Jim, Bill, and Hank are three separate persons, but they make up one individual entity that we call James. I don't see how people would allow their intelligence to be insulted like that. Again God does not give you a brain then give you something to insult the brain he gave you. Only satan will insult your brain and laugh at you while he is doing it. This is what the trinity does to the human brain.

The trinity I have always accepted as a metaphor for the flesh (temporary - "son"), the soul (eternal - air - "spirit"), and all that we cannot grasp in this dimension ("father"). I think that says it.

Who is Lucifer really? Were we not deceived into associating this name with Satan?

igwt
11-14-2005, 01:37 PM
anonymous___ wrote:

igwt wrote:

anonymous___ wrote:

Akbar wrote:
What intelligent evidence do you have to reproof me. You have yet to do so in any of your post. I'm still waiting for your reproof.

You have been reproofed by others. Additionally Satan does not need to become a Muslim. We will tell you again. WE ARE NOT A RELIGION, WE ARE NOT CHRISTIAN, WE ARE NOT JEWISH, WE ARE NOT ISLAMIC, WE ARE NOT HINDU. We do not ask any to believe any particular way and we do not seek to save. Our job is very simple, we warn those who would take the HOLY BIBLE lightly that the GOD of the Bible is described in the Bible truthfully and does do what has been recorded and has no problem doing it again. The Human race will go extinct in exact accordance with the Bible, but it will be LEGAL in accordance with GOD's word. What we say to you in this digital format is required of us. Your belief in our words or the words of the Bible is not important to the GOD of the Universe or us, but to you. Your removal requires that you of your own freewill have transgressed the law. The plan of ALMIGHTY GOD WILL NOT BE AFFECTED BY YOUR BELIEF, BUT YOUR FUTURE WILL. Now foolish human it is up to you, for our digital pronouncement is hereby made. BY THE ELOHIM YOU ARE MADE AWARE, ALL WHO READ AND UNDERSTAND.

Are you human?

No, but you are and you are confined here and you will not leave here. If help comes you have always refused it. The human is such a fragile collection of organized energy that we suggest you study the only source you will ever have on your one choice, the Bible. Not as a bases for a religion but as a window to what your potential might be. The child hood of what you are now is coming to an end. Either choose to grow up through the only true source of knowledge you have been given or accept the consequences. The GOD of the Bible is GOD. GOD's actions in the Bible are not open to your questions and if you do not like it nothing beyond your world cares. The legal god of Earth is Satan and this will continue until Satan comes to you. Most of you will accept what he offers, but some may not. It is for those few that we write, because they have a way out if they will use it. The physical Earth will continue and can not be destroyed by you no matter how much you try. You humans will not continue in your form, but will be changed into another form neither chosen nor designed by you.
At that point there will be no more debate of any kind and the final filter will be in place. Many will not choose to go on, but some will. To those few our our word is presented. The ultimate choice is yours.

May I ask, What are you?

LaDominio
11-14-2005, 02:05 PM
anonymous___ wrote:
Most of you will accept what he offers, but some may not. It is for those few that we write, because they have a way out if they will use it. The physical Earth will continue and can not be destroyed by you no matter how much you try. You humans will not continue in your form, but will be changed into another form neither chosen nor designed by you.
At that point there will be no more debate of any kind and the final filter will be in place. Many will not choose to go on, but some will. To those few our our word is presented. The ultimate choice is yours.

Its strange, I have spoken to an entity just like this one. I know what they are, but there is no name to give them. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the same one with which I have spoken. They have a unique pattern of writing, but it is very subtle. Or perhaps this is a human who mimics one of 'them'? Possible.

igwt
11-14-2005, 02:12 PM
LaDominio wrote:

anonymous___ wrote:
Most of you will accept what he offers, but some may not. It is for those few that we write, because they have a way out if they will use it. The physical Earth will continue and can not be destroyed by you no matter how much you try. You humans will not continue in your form, but will be changed into another form neither chosen nor designed by you.
At that point there will be no more debate of any kind and the final filter will be in place. Many will not choose to go on, but some will. To those few our our word is presented. The ultimate choice is yours.

Its strange, I have spoken to an entity just like this one. I know what they are, but there is no name to give them. I wouldn’t be surprised if this is the same one with which I have spoken. They have a unique pattern of writing, but it is very subtle. Or perhaps this is a human who mimics one of 'them'? Possible.

So we are talking non physical being here? Fallen Angel?
That might explain why they diveted away from one of my earlier questions.

LaDominio
11-14-2005, 03:10 PM
Well, I have considered four possibilities so far.

1. They are from the "bloodlines", who don’t believe that they are human, but something higher.

2. Universal entity. The voice of the universal mind, communicating through a filter, which simplifies its language. (explains the repeating of letters and words)

3. 'Spirits' as such, travelling without time, plunging into our stream to alter the direction of our paths.

4. 'Aliens', highly evolved beings who are offering a helping hand. Who don’t want us to suffer the same fate as they.

You cant see ahead of time. 'They' can. I can too (to an extent). So they have nothing to say to me except that I must not waste time on others at this time. I knew this, but was not practicing it.

Akbar
11-14-2005, 07:41 PM
55132,
How many quran profecies have come true?

The Quran itself is the greatest miracle. I know you all say that Islam was spread by the sword, but how does that account for Islam being the fastest growing religion in America. By the way the average American Muslim is highly educated and middle class. The highest number of converts are native born American women. So based on your logic there are thousands of Arabs riding in America forcing Islam on everyone.

11-14-2005, 08:49 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/USN2.jpg

Saturnino
11-15-2005, 04:10 AM
Those "entities" are demons. My grandma used to be the head of a spiritist center. They talk to people , they talk "thru" people when they are in trance.
They love to fool people saying they are dead people's spirits, aliens, spirits of nature and all that crap. Depends on what would be easier for the naive person to believe. If you open yourself enough, you will se them all around and they will control your life, saying they are guiding spirits. You won't be able to crap without their permission. Try to get out of their control (without Jesus) and they kill you or drive you crazy.

Because God forbade us to mess with the spiritual helm (unless it is thru prayer to Him and thru His express guidance) , He allows that those demons deceive us. It is the price you pay for your disobedience and arrogance.

If you pray in name of Jesus, they freak out and disclose that they are demons in the same second. I've seen many sessions of liberation. In movies, they make exorcism look like a fancy, weird thing that takes days and involves all kinds of tools, but in fact, the power of the name of Jesus kicks the butts of demons instantly most of the times, like in the Bible. But if Hollywood showed the reality, they wouldn't have a movie.

Have you ever wondered why exorcists in movies are ALWAYS Catholic priests ?

LaDominio
11-15-2005, 06:17 AM
Yes, this makes more sense to me. I had received an email that 'discouraged' my caring nature towards people, saying my predictions were mute to many and most people are useless, arrogant and vile.

I don’t listen to anything but myself, that way I can trust my direction is true.

11-15-2005, 08:33 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Those "entities" are demons. My grandma used to be the head of a spiritist center. They talk to people , they talk "thru" people when they are in trance.
They love to fool people saying they are dead people's spirits, aliens, spirits of nature and all that crap. Depends on what would be easier for the naive person to believe. If you open yourself enough, you will se them all around and they will control your life, saying they are guiding spirits. You won't be able to crap without their permission. Try to get out of their control (without Jesus) and they kill you or drive you crazy.

Because God forbade us to mess with the spiritual helm (unless it is thru prayer to Him and thru His express guidance) , He allows that those demons deceive us. It is the price you pay for your disobedience and arrogance.

If you pray in name of Jesus, they freak out and disclose that they are demons in the same second. I've seen many sessions of liberation. In movies, they make exorcism look like a fancy, weird thing that takes days and involves all kinds of tools, but in fact, the power of the name of Jesus kicks the butts of demons instantly most of the times, like in the Bible. But if Hollywood showed the reality, they wouldn't have a movie.

Have you ever wondered why exorcists in movies are ALWAYS Catholic priests ?

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Glyph09.jpg

Bouncer
11-15-2005, 08:59 AM
Cool art.
Another thing that those demons do is prey upon the weak and lonely. Profound loneliness is often one of the doors left open to Lucifer. I have stories of demons also impersonating family and friends or authority figures, right down to the sound of the voice, etc. including people who are still alive. You mentioned "permission"; I can acknowledge that aspect, but it depends on what kind of demon you are dealing with. Some take that "How dare you disobey me . . " approach, and some try to seduce you, slyly as if you were being hypnotised. I believe that this is often a dynamic of occult hypnotism as well.

Saturnino
11-15-2005, 12:25 PM
Yes, Bouncer, that's the way they do it. Sin is a big door for them. I have a friend whose husband sinned by commiting adultery. They are Christians. Nevertheless, this opened a huge door for a demon to visit the wife at night and scare the hell out of her. He would come, say he was a demon, and clim on top of her. Her husband would not wake up.
It took them a lot of prayer and the repentance of the husband to stop the thing from coming, because he had a certain "right" to do so, caused by the husband's sin.

Man, these demons are big liars. Now my aunt, who is still a spiritist, says she has been seeing my grandmother very week. Of course, she is dead. She received Jesus and was baptized soon before she died. She died in peace, even though she practiced spiritism all her life before that.

Now the demon who impersonates her tells the family that she is great suffering. Of course, the demon who says he is my garndfather, who died as a spiritist says he is very well.

Bouncer
11-15-2005, 02:28 PM
There you go! This is what the Seth crowd and other recreational spiritists need to know! The "spirits" are just brazen liars, and are crafty with their strategy. What if a certain pastor was growing in the power of the Holy Spirit, so that Lucifer was angry with him? Well, the channeller down the street gets a visit from her familiar one night saying, "That pastor is an evil man! He molested and killed hundreds of children! You must kill him . . .".

I heard a first-hand account of how a spirit-filled Chirstian walked into a fortuneteller's house once to accompany a friend. After about two minutes, the seer came out screaming at the man that he was evil and that her spirits were afraid of him. She threw him and his friend out of her house.

One last observation: there are greater occurrences of epileptic-type seizures around occult and witchcraft places. This happens in New Hope, PA (very active in the occult), and in Salt Lake City near the great temple. Beware!

LaDominio
11-15-2005, 04:20 PM
Yes, I’ve been fighting these demons my whole life. Unfortunately, I’m dealing with a very bad one.

Once, not too long ago, I became very frustrated with my (now ex) girlfriend. I had just woken up when I went into a slight 'trance' then I had broken into her house and tried to talk to her, but I seemed far too aggressive so she tried to call the police and I smashed the phone. I can’t remember most of it. I was dismayed at what I had done; it’s completely out of my character.

Scary stuff… I wish I knew how to deal with it!

I’m sure it says somewhere in the bible that the more righteous a person, the more the person will be attacked by evil.

freeman
11-15-2005, 05:25 PM
LaDomino, at the risk of getting personal, have you checked out the Brice Taylor book or any other sources about mind control and ritual abuse, like Springmeier?
Maybe there is a reason why you keep impersonating Russell Crowe, beyond the basic explanation of demonism.

truebeliever
11-15-2005, 06:18 PM
I agree FREEMAN.

I've looked pretty deeply inside myself over 10 years and had some amazing experiences. Enough that convince me of the power of the unconscious mind.

That is not to say that the "experiences" described here were not experienced as EXACTLY what they were. I just say that when certain "things" are repressed the unconscious sends them back in demonic form.

Some people are more sensitive than others.

Also, FOOD and ADDITIVES!!!!!!! Dont laugh! I have been experimenting and they are in EVERYTHING!!!! Except your basic fruit and vegetables etc...

My sister cooked for 1 week both lunch and dinner. She's vegetarian and right into the good stuff. I have NEVER felt better. More relaxed than I have EVER been and simply not hungry most of the time. I found that the anxiety I would experience at night simply dissapeared. Never slept better.

She has left and now i'm back into my old habits. Again the anxiety and anger have returned. Though not as bad when I was eating lots of instant noodles and soups (full of MSG and other things) where I would wake in a sweat leaping from my bed convinced someone or something was in the room. The reason I would explode so often on this forum in the earlier days was from the additives I was taking in due to the cheap instant food I was buying.

From direct experience I tell you...additives have alot to do with this stuff. The brain is a sensitive thing. The "ego" keeps things ordered and additives are like HAARP over the mid Atlantic cooking up storms.

Saturnino
11-15-2005, 06:32 PM
LaDominio wrote:
Yes, I’ve been fighting these demons my whole life. Unfortunately, I’m dealing with a very bad one.

Once, not too long ago, I became very frustrated with my (now ex) girlfriend. I had just woken up when I went into a slight 'trance' then I had broken into her house and tried to talk to her, but I seemed far too aggressive so she tried to call the police and I smashed the phone. I can’t remember most of it. I was dismayed at what I had done; it’s completely out of my character.

Scary stuff… I wish I knew how to deal with it!

I’m sure it says somewhere in the bible that the more righteous a person, the more the person will be attacked by evil.

Man, there is only one way to deal with demons, and it is thru the name of Jesus Christ. You have to send them out verbally, out loud. If we try to deal with them by our own strength, we are toast. And, of course, avoid all the doors that let them in, such as oriental meditation, occult practices, sexual sin, heavy drugs, trances, etc.
I've seen spiritists feasts at the beach where spirits come down on the priestesses to give advice to people, etc. People go down rolling on the sand...I've seen a man trying to drown himself in the sea, while 4 other guys could not hold him down. This shit is REAL.
Ask that God protect your spirit.

03-30-2006, 08:03 AM
To answer the prior question regarding the true origins of the name "Lucifer":

Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer appears in Greek mythology as heosphoros, the "Dawn-bringer"; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would introduce distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" does not appear in most modern translations of the Christian Bible.

In the fully-developed Christian interpretation, Jerome's Vulgate translation of Isaiah 14:12 has made Lucifer the name of the principal fallen angel, who must lament the loss of his original glory as the morning star. This image at last defines the character of Satan; where the Church Fathers had maintained that lucifer was not the proper name of the Devil, and that it referred rather to the state from which he had fallen; St. Jerome gave it Biblical authority when he transformed it into Satan's proper name.
-wikipedia

2Pet 1:19 (NIV) And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

Rev 2:28 (NIV) I will also give him the morning star.

Rev 22:16 (NIV) "I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star."

and then there's the following:

Isa 14:12-15 (NIV) How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." But you are brought down to the grave, to the depths of the pit.

Compare the "King James":

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

with the "NIV":

How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

So the "NIV" replaced "Lucifer" with "morning star"... and it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR who this "morning star" truly is... Christ!

An odd transliteration... I believe this was simply intended to convey the true motivation of "Satan" himself - to be Christ. Sarcasm in biblical proportions if you will. One should perhaps use caution when associating the name "Lucifer" with "Satan".

Consider also the following:

2Th 2:3-5 (NAS) Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction, who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God. Do you not remember that while I was still with you, I was telling you these things?

The distinction is rather clear. There should be little confusion. Having said that, I am not recommending that anyone refers to "Jesus" with the name "Lucifer".

redrat11
03-30-2006, 05:41 PM
NEW AGE BIBLE VERSIONS ARE SATANIC!

If your getting your info from the NIV and NAS Bible versions Spectre, you're being "misled" and lied to. the facts are that the King James Bible alone,is the only authentic WORD OF GOD!


THE NIV and NAS ARE COUNTERFEIT TOWARDS THE TRUTH!REVELATION CHAPTER 22
18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Here's just a few examples: NIV (New International Version)..
1.NIV distorts Christ work of Redemption
a. verses which speak of our Lord's coming to save men.
(1.) Mathew 18:11
KJBible: "for the son of man is come to save that which is lost".
NIVBible: (the enire verse is omitted)
(2) Luke 9:56
KJB "For the son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them."
NIV (completely omitted from Bible)

I could go on and on, and thats just the NIV bible, I suggest anyone who believes in TRUTH, only read the KING JAMES BIBLE PERIOD! :-o

03-30-2006, 11:47 PM
I shall quote myself:

So the "NIV" replaced "Lucifer" with "morning star"... and it is ABSOLUTELY CLEAR who this "morning star" truly is... Christ!
In saying this, (I could have been more clear) I was merely trying to point out the deception in the NIV... but with the hope that this was not done as a "deliberate" act, I went on to say:

An odd transliteration... I believe this was simply intended to convey the true motivation of "Satan" himself - to be Christ. Sarcasm in biblical proportions if you will. One should perhaps use caution when associating the name "Lucifer" with "Satan".
I say this because of an ongoing scholars debate on this as a reference to the King of Babylon.

The distinction is rather clear. There should be little confusion. Having said that, I am not recommending that anyone refers to "Jesus" with the name "Lucifer".

So, yes... I could have been a little less vague though responsibility comes with discussing these topics doesen't it? I would hate to mistakingly mislead someone. Way I see it, anyone who doesen't check these things out for themselves is doomed in so many aspects in life. This is true of your churches and priests as well... and if they themselves don't invite and welcome you to validate their teachings then in my opinion, they are acting irresponsibly.

Lucifer is a Latin word made up of two words, lux (light; genitive lucis) and ferre (to bear, to bring), meaning light-bearer. Lucifer appears in Greek mythology as heosphoros, the "Dawn-bringer"; it is used by poets to represent the Morning Star at moments when "Venus" would introduce distracting imagery of the goddess. "Lucifer" does not appear in most modern translations of the Christian Bible. "Lucifer" is Jerome's direct translation in his Vulgate (4th century) of the Septuagint's Greek translation, as heosphoros, "morning star" or "Day Star," literally "bringer of the Dawn", of a phrase in Isaiah 14:12, where it is used to refer to the Babylonian king by one of his popular honorific titles. From the viewpoint of the 5th century Christian tradition, Lucifer is seen as having been second in command to God himself; he was the highest archangel in heaven, but he was motivated by pride and greed to rebel against God and was cast out of heaven, followed by a third of the host of heaven. In later Christian tradition and folklore, Lucifer was identified explicitly with Satan. Such beliefs are thought by some to be contrary to Jesus' teachings, and to exalt Satan and Lucifer to positions and powers not supported in the Bible (see below). Modern concepts of Lucifer and Satan come from embelishments in fictional works like Dante's The Divine Comedy and Milton's Paradise Lost, rather than Biblical sources.

-taken from wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucifer)

I agree sticking with the KJV is indeed the best way to avoid this alltogether! Confusing indeed... but actually not if you read all versions in proper context. The truth speaks for itself.

sablefish
05-28-2006, 07:25 PM
Hi Barbara.. I am one of your fans.. Good on you for asking a question.

My answer to that is that: It's all a bunch of hogwash. The meaning of Christ has been hidden by the "Church" thru the last few thousand years in order to not only grab the money of the suckers but also their souls.. (If there is such a thing)

Sons of God.. No mystery at all.. There were 23 angels.. a third of them fell from grace toward earth.. Let me get my calculator out.. Duh.. 7 point 666. I wonder which one of the Angels was only missing a third of his/her program.

Most of the other Angels.. sons and should be daughters of God.. were expressing the different attitudes of God.. The attitudes of man on this dump called Earth.

Some of the Angels were selling "repentance", another was selling "long suffering"

Jesus was selling "Faith".. Satan was selling "Fear"

The whole problem of religion is beginning to look like an exercise in some kind of super symmetrically to me. I think when we die ..We die.. Just like our dogs and cats do. And the maggots eat our flesh like they should.

And yet there is something else going on.. There are too many paranormal events happening.. It seems like perhaps Religion and miracles are the result of an attitude of faith.. or fear.. that perhaps shakes the dimensions we think are real into a dimensional shift and a new universe is created to accommodate the shift.

Perhaps Fear creates a cascading effect and results in it's realization.. The same way that Faith affects events.

I believe religion abandons the sciences and mathematics we know nothing about.. And yet their are 11 dimensions out there.. Waiting for us to understand them.

I wish that religions and science would come to the conclusion that they are talking about the same thing .. but in different languages. Religion is just a misunderstanding of the science of “Our Being The Human Race.. And yet I like dogs and cats and monkeys and viruses and all the rest that comes with the package deal… I like Earth.. How about YOU?

Bouncer
05-30-2006, 02:07 PM
I liked my old pair of faded Levi's, but they wore out. A new pair just isn't the same. The Earth is "wearing out" and one day will not support life. So, a new Earth will be ready for us.

There is a group of scientists who believe that the human mind is nothing more than a collection of electrical impulses; they put on amazing demonstartions with electromagnetic devices, etc., to elicit all kinds of weird sensations and thoughts in experiments, thereby supporting their theory. They reject the existence of the human soul and by extension the whole spiritual realm altogether.

But as you say, there are too many things "going on out there" for this to be true.

Superiority of body or intellect matter very little in relationship with God; I would posit that a childlike faith and trust in a REAL God is a good beginning! It is a matter of a SOUL'S relationship with another SPIRIT, and so cannot be governed by the empirical things of worldly Science.

God spoke to all of us deep in our hearts when we were young, so maybe this is a reference to those times: "Souviens-Toi!" :-)

KennyWally
04-29-2008, 10:21 PM
Anyone else here, have an early memory, prior to being born? Nope, not kidding...

I've had this memory, but yet, I don't recall anything from when I was an infant!

My memory goes as follows, I was soaring, flying around in an area of darkness, kinda similar to the feeling you get if you've ever left your body while sleeping, but I can't say for how long exactly, but it seemed less than a minute.

The next thing I know, I was shown that cameras would be everywhere, then the next thing I remember was a loud noise. But it was more like a bang with vibrato to it, similar to the sound of a JAKE BRAKE on a semi!

[ If you've ever been on the hwy and a truck nearby used one to slow down, you'd never forget that sound ]

Except that, instead of the noise slowing down, like on a truck, it was speeding up, as if something was coming closer to me that was gonna hurt me. I was scared after that, and it was right after I got frightened, that I recall being escorted to a point where I didn't want to enter, it is were we go to come here to earth. [ don't ask me how I know, I just know ]

I was fighting it, I didn't want to come, because I knew I was going to be hurt here. Needless to say I lost the fight.

This is not something that is easily discussed with people. When the thought resurfaced in my head every once in a while as a child, I didn't know how to discuss it with my folks . I was trying to figure out what it meant, but I'd get frustrated, then think of something else and forget about it.

After puberty, the memory went into hibernation until when in my thirties, I heard a news report about they were working on closed circuit cameras to be put in public places in the UK, and the cameras would be everywhere! And BAM !!!!, just like that, it came flooding back into my mind, and again, I wasn't sure what it meant for me, but I was sure it was a message, maybe a mile marker of sorts. I should say, that I wasn't yet saved. I still had not yet discussed this with anyone. I wasn't really sure how to go about it. And I suppose I figured that most would say I was confused and that it was really a dream and to forget about it.

It wasn't until the year after my father died and 911 went down and I got saved, did I mention it to my mother. I've been studying The Word and the scumbags of this world ever since. And that noise, well, I think that is the last thing I'm gonna hear, before going to the next world.

:-)