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11-16-2005, 01:52 PM
The Eye in the Pyramid
By: S. Brent Morris

In, at times, a strongly worded article Dr. S. Morris, a member and Past Master of Patmos Lodge #70, Ellicott City, Maryland, has "set the record straight" on the myth that the Great Seal of the United States represents a Masonic symbol. The facts are clearly presented, together with several examples of the use of the "All Seeing Eye" prior to any known Masonic use. This straightforward article is being presented as a STB so that Freemasons may have an answer when the question is asked "Is the Seal of the United States a Masonic symbol?"

HISTORIANS must be cautious about many well-known "facts." George Washington chopped down a cherry tree when a boy and confessed the deed to his father. Abner Doubleday invented the game of baseball. Freemasons inserted some of their emblems (chief among them the eye in the pyramid) into the reverse of the Great Seal of the United States. These historical "facts" are widely popular, commonly accepted, and equally false.

The eye in the pyramid (emblazoned on the dollar bill, no less) is often cited as "evidence" that sinister conspiracies abound which will impose a "New World Order" on an unsuspecting populace. Depending on whom you hear it from, the Masons are planning the takeover themselves, or are working in concert with European bankers, or are leading (or perhaps being led by) the Illuminati (whoever they are). The notion of a world-wide Masonic conspiracy would be laughable, if it weren't being repeated with such earnest gullibility by conspiracists like Pat Robertson.

Sadly, Masons are sometimes counted among the gullible who repeat the tall tale of the eye in the pyramid, often with a touch of pride. They may be guilty of nothing worse than innocently puffing the importance of their fraternity (as well as themselves), but they're guilty nonetheless. The time has come to state the truth plainly and simply!

The Great Seal of the United States is not a Masonic emblem, nor does it contain hidden Masonic symbols.

The details are there for anyone to check, who's willing to rely on historical fact, rather than hysterical fiction.

* Benjamin Franklin was the only Mason on the first design committee, and his suggestions had no Masonic content.
* None of the final designers of the seal were Masons.
* The interpretation of the eye on the seal is subtly different from the interpretation used by Masons.
* The eye in the pyramid is not nor has it ever been a Masonic symbol.

The First Committee

On Independence Day, 1776 a committee was created to design a seal for the new American nation. The committee's members were Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, and John Adams, with Pierre Du Simitiere as artist and consultant[1]. Of the four men involved, only Benjamin Franklin was a Mason, and he contributed nothing of a Masonic nature to the committee's proposed design for a seal.

Du Simitiere, the committee's consultant and a non-Mason, contributed several major design features that made their way into the ultimate design of the seal: 'the shield, E Pluribus Unum, MDCCLXXVI, and the eye of providence in a triangle."[2] The eye of providence on the seal thus can be traced, not to the Masons, but to a non-Mason consultant to the committee.

"The single eye was a well-established artistic convention for an 'omniscient Ubiquitous Deity' in the medallic art of the Renaissance. Du Simitiere, who suggested using the symbol, collected art books and was familiar with the artistic and ornamental devices used in Renaissance art."[3] This was the same cultural iconography that eventually led Masons to add the all-seeing eye to their symbols.

The Second and Third Committees

Congress declined the first committees suggestions as well as those of its 1780 committee. Francis Hopkinson, consultant to the second committee, had several ideas that eventually made it into the seal: "white and red stripes with- in a blue background for the shield, a radiant constellation of thirteen stars, and an olive branch."[4] Hopkinson's greatest contribution to the current seal came from his layout of a 1778 50-dollar colonial note in which he used an unfinished pyramid in the design. The third and last seal committee of 1782 produced a design that finally satisfied Congress. Charles Thomson, Secretary of Congress, and William Barton, artist and consultant, borrowed from earlier designs and sketched what at length became the United States Seal.

The misinterpretation of the seal as a Masonic emblem may have been first introduced a century later in 1884. Harvard Professor Eliot Norton wrote that the reverse was 'practically incapable of effective treatment; it can hardly, (however artistically treated by the designer), look otherwise than as a dull emblem of a Masonic fraternity.[5]
Interpreting the Symbol

The "Remarks and Explanations" of Thomson and Barton are the only explanation of the symbols' meaning. Despite what anti-Masons may believe, there's no reason to doubt the interpretation accepted by the Congress.

The Pyramid signified Strength and Duration: The Eye over it & the Motto allude to the many signal interpositions of providence in favor of the American cause.[6]

The committees and consultants who designed the great Seal of the United States contained only one Mason, Benjamin Franklin. The only possibly Masonic design element among the very many on the seal is the eye of providence, and the interpretation of it by the designers is different from that used by Masons. The eye on the seal represents an active intervention of God in the affairs of men, while the Masonic symbol stands for a passive awareness by God of the activities of men.

The first "official" use and definition of the all-seeing eye as a Masonic symbol seems to have come in 1797 with The Freemasons Monitor of Thomas Smith Webb -- 14 years after Congress adopted the design for the seal. Here's how Webb explains the symbol.

"[A]nd although our thoughts, words and actions, may be hidden from the eyes of man, yet that All-Seeing Eye, whom the Sun, Moon and Stars obey, and under whose watchful care even comets perform their stupendous revolutions, pervades the inmost recesses of the human heart, will reward us according to our merits."[7]

The Eye in the Pyramid

Besides the subtly different interpretations of the symbol, it is notable that Webb did not describe the eye as being in a triangle. Jeremy Ladd Cross published The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor in 1819, essentially an illustrated version of Webb's Monitor. In this first "official" depiction of Webb's symbol, Cross had illustrator Amos Doolittle depict the eye surrounded by a semicircular glory.

The all-seeing eye thus appears to be a rather recent addition to Masonic symbolism. It is not found in any of the Gothic Constitutions, written from about 1390 to 1730. The eye -- sometimes in a triangle, sometimes in clouds, but nearly always surrounded by a glory -- was a popular Masonic decorative device in the latter half of the 18th century. Its use as a design element seems to have been an artistic representation of the omniscience of God, rather than some generally accepted Masonic symbol.

Its meaning in all cases, however, was that commonly given it by society at large -- a reminder of the constant presence of God. For example, in 1614 the frontispiece of The History of the World by Walter Raleigh showed an eye in a cloud labeled "Providentia" overlooking a globe. It has not been suggested that Raleigh's story is a Masonic document despite the use of the all-seeing eye.

The eye of Providence was part of the common cultural iconography of the 17th and 18th centuries. When placed in a triangle, the eye went beyond a general representation of God to a strongly Trinitarian statement. It was during this period that Masonic ritual and symbolism evolved; and it is not surprising that many symbols common to and understood by the general society made their way into Masonic ceremonies. Masons may have preferred the triangle because of the frequent use of the number 3 in their ceremonies: three degrees, three original grand masters, three principal officers, and so on. Eventually the all-seeing eye came to be used officially by Masons as a symbol for God, but this happened towards the end of the eighteenth century, after congress had adopted the seal.

A pyramid, whether incomplete or finished, however, has never been a Masonic symbol. It has no generally accepted symbolic meaning, except perhaps permanence or mystery. The combining of the eye of providence overlooking an unfinished pyramid is a uniquely American, not Masonic, icon, and must be interpreted as its designers intended. It has no Masonic context.
Conclusion

It's hard to know what leads some to see Masonic conspiracies behind world events, but once that hypothesis is accepted, any jot and tittle can be misinterpreted as "evidence." The Great Seal of the United States is a classic example of such a misinterpretation, and some Masons are as guilty of the exaggeration as many anti-Masons.

The Great Seal and Masonic symbolism grew out of the same cultural milieu. While the all-seeing eye had been popularized in Masonic designs of the late eighteenth century, it did not achieve any sort of official recognition until Webb's 1797 Monitor. Whatever status the symbol may have had during the design of the Great Seal, it was not adopted or approved or endorsed by any Grand Lodge.

The seal's Eye of Providence and the Mason's All Seeing Eye each express Divine Omnipotence, but they are parallel uses of a shared icon, not a single symbol.
Notes

[1] Robert Hieronimus, America's Secret Destiny (Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989), p. 48.

[2] Patterson and Dougall in Hieronimus, p. 48.

[3] Hieronimus, p. 81.

[4] Hieronimus, p. 51.

[5] Hieronimus, p. 57.

[6] C. Thomas and W. Barton in Hieronimus, p. 54.

[7] Thomas Smith Webb, The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry (Salem, Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821), p. 66.

[8]Jeremy Ladd Cross, The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. (New Haven, Conn.: By the Author, 1824), plate 22.
References

Cross, Jeremy Ladd. The True Masonic Chart or Hieroglyphic Monitor, 3rd ed. New Haven, Conn.: By the Author, 1824.

Hieronimus, Robert. America's Secret Destiny. Rochester, Vt.: Destiny Books, 1989.

Webb, Thomas Smith. The Freemasons Monitor or Illustrations of Masonry. Salem, Mass.: Cushing and Appleton, 1821.

truebeliever
11-16-2005, 07:07 PM
Thanx BONDI. You've provided my first chuckle for the day. Off to my new job with renewed vigour.

Are you from Oz? I'm presuming. Sydney? A Botany Wig perhaps?

You know, all insults aside. BONDI, if it walks, quacks, has feathers, waddles, DNA matches, lays eggs, flys south for the winter and tastes like duck when roasted...the chances of it being a duck is high.

I am no expert of the Freemasonic movement but I have been studying Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, dream work and astrology for 13 years and know my metaphor and symbology.

You are either a lier or so far down on the rung you have nothing to say.

All the best regardless. Stick around. Sincerely.

TB

Saturnino
11-17-2005, 03:37 AM
If anyone has any doubt that Masonry is incompatible with Christ, check these sites:

http://www.emfj.org/ (ex-Masons for Jesus)
http://www.cuttingedge.org/fmcorner.html
(Freemasonty corner at cutting edge.org)

Masonry is not an integrated, uniform organization. In this, Biondi is right. Some lodges are more social, some are more occultist. Some have this, others that tradition. Some get you into occultism quite early, some only at the higher degrees.

BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. They are just raw material for the globalists/occultists. Even though the lodges are apparently very disconnected, on the top they are all in the hands of the same people. As they say, they are cattle waiting to be used by their leaders. Some guys may spend their whole lives in Masonry and never really get into the heavy hard core witchcraft...but if the need and opportunity arise, the right ones will be picked up.

For the globalists, what matters is that the cattle is there, waiting to be used.

11-17-2005, 03:51 AM
truebeliever wrote:
Are you from Oz? I'm presuming. Sydney? A Botany Wig perhaps?

Kinda showing your intellect here, look under my name it states UK. Funny how presumptions are made from a single word, Bondi always make people think of the beach.

A perfect example of stereotypical thought patterns which makes it so hard for people to change from fiction to fact if they have been fed it and believed it for a period of time.


truebeliever wrote:
You know, all insults aside. BONDI, if it walks, quacks, has feathers, waddles, DNA matches, lays eggs, flys south for the winter and tastes like duck when roasted...the chances of it being a duck is high.

Actually it's probably chicken.

But I get your point, the only problem is you need to know not just hear how it walks, how it quacks and whether it waddles or not first to be able to make the connection. Just because someone says something, doesn't make it so.


truebeliever wrote:
I am no expert of the Freemasonic movement but I have been studying Carl Jung, Joseph Campbell, dream work and astrology for 13 years and know my metaphor and symbology.

Well if you study CJ I am quite surpirsed at your outlook, some of his personality theories I quite cool.

I am glad you have taken the time to study metaphor and symbology, cause you will know that one symbol can have multiple meanings, dependant on where it is used and how it is used.

The five pointed star is the perfect example, maybe you could explain this symbol? Just so I know you are not bluffing regarding your studying.


truebeliever wrote:
You are either a lier or so far down on the rung you have nothing to say.

I don't lie, but then you'll have to trust me on that.

Whats has a rung of the ladder got to do with anything.

How sloppy of an argument, from some who is not a Freemason, admits to being no expert, to turn round and act as if they know more and state I don't because I must be on a low rung.

By that argument you obviously haven'y got the foggiest cause you aint even on the first rung.

Try and make sense!

You obviously believe those who are not masons can know it all, but yet as soon as a mason argues the point you simple say you are not high up enough, I am sure your 13 years of study has equipped you with the ability to think better than that :-o


truebeliever wrote:
All the best regardless. Stick around. Sincerely.

TB

I intend to hang around a bit, but why not take a break from chucking all that conspiracy mumbo jumbo at me and take the opportunity to discuss it.

11-17-2005, 03:55 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Masonry is not an integrated, uniform organization. In this, Biondi is right.

That's a first :lol:

Some lodges are more social, some are more occultist. Some have this, others that tradition. Some get you into occultism quite early, some only at the higher degrees.

Okay, I'll underline this bit this time, see if it sinks in

FREEMASONRY ONLY HAS THREE DEGREES

Decide what you are talking about. And the order you are talking about requires the Christian Faith to join it.


truebeliever wrote:
BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER. They are just raw material for the globalists/occultists. Even though the lodges are apparently very disconnected, on the top they are all in the hands of the same people. As they say, they are cattle waiting to be used by their leaders. Some guys may spend their whole lives in Masonry and never really get into the heavy hard core witchcraft...but if the need and opportunity arise, the right ones will be picked up.

For the globalists, what matters is that the cattle is there, waiting to be used.

Where do you read this stuff :lol:

noNWO4me
11-17-2005, 09:53 AM
Bondi: I would like to sneak in here with this question. Sorry, to barge in amongst some more serious noted querries/comments. But anyway, where does all this money that Freemasonry has---goes? BUMPER STICKER: Freemasons contribute billions each day? Huh???

I never hear of any contribution to local charities, for example: homeless shelters, programs for children of low income family. Why don't they help out schools??????
Truly, I've never heard anything said that 'this and that' contribution came from the Freemasons.

And as for what I believe about Freemasonry:
They are (grand)masters of deception. All to gain for themselves. They'll tell you that green paint will be the rage next year, and then 'we' go and buy this trendy green paint while 'they' have invested and made good on their investments of what 'they' said would be the rage/trend in the first place.
And this is just one (small) example of what they are up to. Like my neighbor (who cleans houses for a couple of Masons) said: "each time there's a war, Mr/Mrs. SO SO gets good returns on their stock/investments. Hmmmmm!

They are constantly keeping 'others' down (far away from the money trail).
They want all the privileges, rights, comfort, wealth.
They never really have to own up to any wrong doings. It's as if this is their 'right to do wrong' and not have to pay any consequence. The reward of being a Freemason is: just do it, we'll help you get away with it, brotha!

This is what many people have noticed about those that they know to be Freemasons. What? Are we imagining things? Nope!!!!

Freemasonry has its rewards and security for its members. People know this. This is why many believe that a Freemason can commit murder and truly get away with it. Can you name me a Freemason who went to jail for good!!!! No, you can't-----because they never get convicted/sentenced.

Bondi: Are you able to tell us a little about yourself? Truly, you made an entrance here for us to ask you anything about Freemasonry. So what gives?

By the way: thanks for any response to my post here.

11-17-2005, 10:19 AM
noNWO4me wrote:
Bondi: I would like to sneak in here with this question. Sorry, to barge in amongst some more serious noted querries/comments. But anyway, where does all this money that Freemasonry has---goes? BUMPER STICKER: Freemasons contribute billions each day? Huh???

Bumper stickers? Only in America.

Freemasonry is one of the largest contributors to charity in the UK.

They were one of the first organisations to donate to the relief funds for the recent disasters around the world.


noNWO4me wrote:
I never hear of any contribution to local charities, for example: homeless shelters, programs for children of low income family. Why don't they help out schools??????

I can't really quote figures for everywhere but give you an idea of where to look.

In England for example there are masonic schools for boys and girls. There not masonic, but funded by Freemasonry.

In America I belive you have DemMolay and Raindow Girls. Not being in America I wont quote too much as it is not familiar to me, but I will gladly find you some sites to look at if you want.

My own lodge funds the local air ambulance.

Alot of what masonry donates is done "anonymously" kudos is not a reason to donate money. I know it is easily argued that we simple say we do and use the fact we do it anonymously to hide the fact.

You also have the Shriners, not afiliated as such with Freemasonry but every member is a Master Mason, you have the Shriner hosptials etc, only just come to England so again I wont quote too much on it.

The UGLE provides information on charity at their website Here (http://www.ugle.org.uk/charity/intro.htm)

This is just for UGLE each lodge in England does stuff for its own community as well.

At every lodge meeting there are two of three collections and a raffle, of which none of the money goes to Freemasonry, but to a worthwhile cause.

In England only one other organisation donates more money, the national lottery, and they are simply donating the peoples money, every bit of the donations made by Freemasonry as come as a result of Freemasonry.


noNWO4me wrote:Truly, I've never heard anything said that 'this and that' contribution came from the Freemasons.

Anonymous donations is the reason.


noNWO4me wrote:
And as for what I believe about Freemasonry:
They are (grand)masters of deception. All to gain for themselves.

Do you think I have deceived you in anyway, or am i gaining from my time here?


noNWO4me wrote:
They'll tell you that green paint will be the rage next year, and then 'we' go and buy this trendy green paint while 'they' have invested and made good on their investments of what 'they' said would be the rage/trend in the first place.

You don't honestly believe that do you?

If you have never heard of a Masonic donation to charity, I would love to know where you heard any kind of masonic advice in the vein of your comment above.


noNWO4me wrote:
And this is just one (small) example of what they are up to. Like my neighbor (who cleans houses for a couple of Masons) said: "each time there's a war, Mr/Mrs. SO SO gets good returns on their stock/investments. Hmmmmm!

Hmmm indeed. Don't think I really need to comment on this bit.


noNWO4me wrote:
The reward of being a Freemason is: just do it, we'll help you get away with it, brotha!

If that were true, a lot more people would want to be a part of it, trust me.


noNWO4me wrote:
This is what many people have noticed about those that they know to be Freemasons. What? Are we imagining things? Nope!!!!

You have to look on the larger scale. I wont deny that you wil find a mason that will go out of his way to help another mason. Saying that I would go out of my way to help my mates as well. Depends to what extent you are talking, and please don't come out with the once your a 32nd you have to swear to help a brother even if he's commited murder.


noNWO4me wrote:
Freemasonry has its rewards and security for its members.

That comment can be made to any organisation. The church was a sanctury for criminals for centuries.


noNWO4me wrote:
People know this. This is why many believe that a Freemason can commit murder and truly get away with it.

Oh please


noNWO4me wrote:
Can you name me a Freemason who went to jail for good!!!! No, you can't-----because they never get convicted/sentenced.

I couldn't name you anyone who went to prison for good! Not really of interest, but just go to anti-masonic sites. They will give you as many names as you want. This is part of the problem, you get one person who will point out every criminal who was a mason, I believe Bundy etc have been quoted on here, and then another stands up and says they can get away with murder and no mason ever gets convicted.

Which is it. make up your mind and then we can address it.


noNWO4me wrote:
Bondi: Are you able to tell us a little about yourself?

What would you like to know, the outbursts I received on my first few posts would tell me I have been tried and judged as a Freemason already. :-?


noNWO4me wrote:
Truly, you made an entrance here for us to ask you anything about Freemasonry. So what gives?

Not sure what you mean!

Why have I subjected myself to a barrage of insults and outlandish question?

I have said elsewhere, I am not overly concerned, in fact not concerned at all about whether people agree or disagree with Freemasonry. I stop on sites like this because I would rather people disliked with truth.

In all honesty 99% of Freemasons are nice folk, honest and caring and I find it unfair to see them all branded as criminals, paedophiles and the like, especially when many of the accussers have never taken the time to stop and talk to any.


noNWO4me wrote:
By the way: thanks for any response to my post here.

I'll always reply if I can.

An cover as much as I can.

If I ever miss a post, its because there are a few of you posting and only me replying so just let me know if I miss anything.

Bouncer
11-17-2005, 12:49 PM
Cor! I like the aprons. They speak of craftsmanship: both physical and social.

freeman
11-17-2005, 03:09 PM
You also have the Shriners, not afiliated as such with Freemasonry but every member is a Master Mason, you have the Shriner hosptials etc, only just come to England so again I wont quote too much on it.

Let me help you out, Bond-man:

Fri, April 24, 1987
South Haven Daily Tribune
South Haven Michigan

Shrine Records Shocking

Dear Ann Landers:

That glowing letter about how much good the Shriners do was only half of the story. I believe you were taken in. The issue is not how much money the Shriners pass on to the hospitals they support but how much do the temples keep for themselves.

The Orlando Sentinal did a terrific series on this subject recently. I am enclosing part one. It will tell you all you need to know.

---R.L., TIPP CITY, OHIO


DEAR TIPP: Thank you for your letter and part one of the series by Orlando Sentinel. John Haile, editor of the Sentinel sent me part two. I was distressed by the information contained in that prize-winning story.

Shrine refers to their hospitals as "The soul of the Shrine"" and the Sentinal cited Internal Revenue Service records showing that although the Shrine is the richest charity in the nation, it gave its 22 hospitals for children less than one-third of the gross collected from the public in 1984.

The REMAINDER was spent on food, travel, entertainment, fraternal ceremonies and fund-raising.

The Sentinel reported that in 1985 the Shriners kept a whopping 71 percent of the money raised, about $21.7 million. This went to pay for a range of clubhouse expenses, including the upkeep of private bars, restaurants and golf courses. They also used the money to pay for conventions, travel and entertainment for their 880,000 members and, again, fund raising.

The Shrine''s most lucrative source of income are the circuses throughout the country. They generate about $23 million in 1985, the paper reported. The records show that LESS THAN 2 percent, or $346,251, went to the medical care of the children. I find this shocking.

In 1922 the Shriners established hospitals for burned and crippled children. Today they operate 19 orthopedic hospitals and three burn centers. I want to make it clear that I have received dozens of letters from readers who have told me they took their children to a Shrine hospital after a terrible accident, the youngsters received wonderful care and not one cent was charged. This an extraordinary testimony and a glowing tribute.

The facts uncovered by the Orlando Sentinel''s investigative reporters in no way diminishes services performed by the Shrine hospitals. The complaint is that a great deal of money that people think is being given to help crippled and burned children never gets there. In all fairness, I want it understood that every penny sent directly to the hospitals is spent solely to help the children.

Thousands of Shriners were appalled when the Orlando Sentinel made its findings known. They had no idea as to the financial workings of their fraternity. To their credit, many Shrine leaders are now demanding that the temples make clear whether fund-raisers benefit the children or the Shriners themselves. Four cheers for them.


Postscript

15 years later nothing has changed, the current percentage is about 25 percent, the Shrine continues to be the wealthiest "charity" in the world with it's assets now around the $10 Billion Dollar mark.

In 1998 the Shriners posted a $233 Million Dollar PROFIT, almost equal to the entire budget of the Shrine Hospital system.

In 2001 the Shrine announced a new fundraising drive amid a glitzy national advertising campaign.

In reality it is obvious this was little more than a P.R. and Membership Drive campaign for Freemasonry given the staggering excesses of funds raised over funds expended they already enjoy.

The largest "charity" in North America continues to convey only a fraction of the funds it raises for legitimate charitible uses, unlike real charities like the Red Cross and Easter Seals where the percent going to end users is 80% or better.

But then the Red Cross and Easter Seals don't have private bars, dinning rooms, meeting rooms, and Golf & Country Club/"Study Centers" to subsidise.



Do you think I have deceived you in anyway, or am i gaining from my time here?

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

nohope187
11-17-2005, 08:04 PM
I doubt that Red Cross or Easter Seals are all that much better as they are government bureaucrat orginizations, are they not?

11-18-2005, 03:32 AM
Freeman wrote:
BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

You are simply a waste of time, all you are interested in is slander and hate propoganda. I could sit you in a lodge and show you exactly what happened, and you still wouldn't believe it.

11-18-2005, 03:46 AM
nohope187 wrote:
I doubt that Red Cross or Easter Seals are all that much better as they are government bureaucrat orginizations, are they not?

Not the first time I have heard troublesome things regarding the red cross, although the corruption tends to be at the site of the aid being given. Trouble with having volunteers is you don't tend to check their backgrounds.

There was a concern within English Freemasonry during the relief efforts for the Tsunami, because the first payment of £100,000.00 went straight to the red cross and there were whispers that not all the money given to the RC made it to the fund, but that is the trouble with whispers, either people ignore them, or go completely the opposite and claim global conspiracy.


As for Easter Seals, I believe that is only an American outfit? I do not know much about them.

freeman
11-18-2005, 06:01 AM
You are simply a waste of time, all you are interested in is slander and hate propoganda. I could sit you in a lodge and show you exactly what happened, and you still wouldn't believe it.

No, you are the waste of time, because, all you are interested in is lying and coverups of the real Masonic agenda.
You're right. I wouldn't believe you if you sat me in a lodge, because I know it would be a staged event. If you and your Satanic friends really have nothing to hide, then why can't I just walk in the front door anytime? Oh, that's right, there's a large, ominous "NO TRESSPASSING" sign posted right in front of my local Freemasonic Lodge...just another example of "making good men better".

(Note: Fellow CC members, observe how he doesn't even try to respond to the info I posted which blows his claims of Masonic charity right out of the water. Typical reaction of the Craft when cornered without a defense; just ignore and lapse into personal attacks. That should give you an idea how much real "truth" you're getting from this source.)

11-18-2005, 06:12 AM
freeman wrote:

No, you are the waste of time, because, all you are interested in is lying and coverups of the real Masonic agenda.

You mean questioning your imagination!


freeman wrote:
You're right. I wouldn't believe you if you sat me in a lodge, because I know it would be a staged event.

Thats a perfect point, why don't Freemasons open the doors, because of people like you, who will not believe us anyway.


freeman wrote:
If you and your Satanic friends really have nothing to hide, then why can't I just walk in the front door anytime?

You can. Most large masonic centres have people there all the time. You can go to Great Queen Street in London and tour the entire building.


freeman wrote:
Oh, that's right, there's a large, ominous "NO TRESSPASSING" sign posted right in front of my local Freemasonic Lodge...just another example of "making good men better".

Just another example of private property.

Any one would think it is the only place you see a no trespassing sign! get a grip.


freeman wrote:
(Note: Fellow CC members, observe how he doesn't even try to respond to the info I posted which blows his claims of Masonic charity right out of the water. Typical reaction of the Craft when cornered without a defense; just ignore and lapse into personal attacks. That should give you an idea how much real "truth" you're getting from this source.)

Note, you posted regarding the Shriners, to which I had already said they are American and only just come to UK. So my knowledge of them is limited.

Unlike yourself, if I do not know I do not comment.


And as for your quotes, it is easy to find information to suit your needs, we are accused of being murderers...

BBC News
Thursday, September 8, 2005

Many Rwandan Catholics believe the Church let
them down

A Belgian Catholic priest has been arrested at the
airport in Rwanda's capital, Kigali, for his alleged role
in the 1994 genocide.

Guy Theunis worked as a missionary in Rwanda, a former
Belgian colony, from 1970 until 1994.

Belgium's Foreign Minister Karel de Gucht has expressed
his "astonishment".

Several Rwandan priests and nuns have been convicted of
participating in the killing of some 800,000 minority
Tutsis and moderate Hutus.


BBC.com

US priest charged in nun's death

Robinson (centre) is expected to plead not
guilty A Roman Catholic priest in the US has been charged
in connection with the death of a nun 24 years ago in
what may have been a ritualistic killing.

A grand jury in Toledo, Ohio, decided the Reverend
Gerald Robinson should face charges of aggravated murder.


Does that make Christianity an organisation of murderers. I don't think so!

freeman
11-18-2005, 06:36 AM
You can relax and go back to fondling your Tubalcain pin.
I'm through with you. I think my point has been demonstrated.
I really wish you would give some consideration to your immortal soul, but every man has freewill when it comes to his own salvation.
I thank you Freemasons for helping me to find my own salvation; if you hadn't shown me what the devil really is, I never would have been inspired to find God.


Again you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let you statement be ‘Yes, yes’, or ‘No, no’: and anything beyond these is of evil.; (Matthew 5:33-37)

But above all, my brethren, do not swear, either by heaven or by earth or with any other oath, but let your yes be yes and your no, no; so that you may not fall under judgment. (James 5:12)

11-18-2005, 06:59 AM
freeman wrote:
I'm through with you. I think my point has been demonstrated.

You haven't made a point yet, just blown hot air. You haven't given one feasible view on Freemasonry, just spat slander (which I believe is a sin also)


freeman wrote:
I really wish you would give some consideration to your immortal soul, but every man has freewill when it comes to his own salvation.

Freemasonry offers me no salvation, and my immortal soul is save in the hands of my creator, and he and only he will decide what happens to me when i depart this world.

Who are you to judge anyone, you are just a human like the rest of us.


freeman wrote:
I thank you Freemasons for helping me to find my own salvation; if you hadn't shown me what the devil really is, I never would have been inspired to find God.

I don't think you would know the devil if he bit you on the butt. The devil as you believe him to be is everywhere you find sin, and there is sin in your heart by your own faiths standards, only when you die you might be saved.



freeman wrote: Again you have heard that the ancients were told, ‘You shall not make false vows, but shall fulfill your vows to the Lord.’ But I say to you, make no oath at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, or by the earth, for it is the footstool of His feet, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. Nor shall you make an oath by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. But let you statement be ‘Yes, yes’, or ‘No, no’: and anything beyond these is of evil.; (Matthew 5:33-37)

Hope you don't get married then, or christianed, or be a childs godparents. You obvioulsy don't have a decent job and have had no need to sign a contract, you cannot be American, or if you are you do not pledge your allegiance to the flag, you obvioulsy cannot be a witness because you can't swear to tell the truth, and you can't take upon yourselve the Church Covenant, as all fall into the category of oath taking. Giving your word is taking an oath.

In His teaching in the Sermon on the Mount, Jesus stated: "Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven: but whoever does and teaches them [even the "least" commandments], he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image or any likeness of anything11 that is in heaven above or that is on the earth beneath or that is in the water below. 20:5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them

Hope you don't wear a crucifix, unless of course JC isn't in heaven.

Remember the Sabbath day to set it apart as holy. 20:9 For six days you may labor and do all your work, 20:10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, or your male servant, or your female servant, or your cattle, or the resident foreigner who is in your gates.

Well thats every preacher in the world screwed then! They draw a wage for they do on a Sunday.


You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.

Your claims are against Freemasonry and therefore attributed to every member. You accuse all, and there bare false witness against me for a start. You claim to speak the truth, but you speak with a forked tongue.



Even your scriptures are abused to set forth mere mortals points.

You'd think you would show more respect to your sacred scriptures, rather than use them to peddle your slander.

Marsali
11-18-2005, 10:24 AM
The terms 'oath,' 'vow,' and 'pledge' have different meanings, Bondi; they don't mean the same thing.

My old Websters dictionary defines these three terms:

Oath: the invoking of God or some sacred or revered person or thing as witness of the truth of a statement or the binding nature of a promise.

Vow: to promise solemnly, esp. to God, to vow obedience; to resolve emphatically, to make a vow.

Pledge: to hand over a security for a loan, to commit (oneself, one's reputation, etc.), to promise, to pledge allegience to the flag, to drink a toast to.

There's quite a difference between "invoking" the name of God, or a revered person or thing as is done in your Masonic oath, and quite another thing to make a promise "to" God. They are completely different, Bondi. And when you make your Masonic oath, isn't it under the threat of death if you divulge any of the secrets of the society?

11-18-2005, 10:37 AM
Marsali wrote:
The terms 'oath,' 'vow,' and 'pledge' have different meanings, Bondi; they don't mean the same thing.

My old Websters dictionary defines these three terms:

Oath: the invoking of God or some sacred or revered person or thing as witness of the truth of a statement or the binding nature of a promise.

Vow: to promise solemnly, esp. to God, to vow obedience; to resolve emphatically, to make a vow.

Pledge: to hand over a security for a loan, to commit (oneself, one's reputation, etc.), to promise, to pledge allegience to the flag, to drink a toast to.

But saying let your yes be yes and your no be no, means you shouldn't do any of them, just say yes I will or no I wont. Or is that over simplifying to my cause.


Marsali wrote:
There's quite a difference between "invoking" the name of God, or a revered person or thing as is done in your Masonic oath, and quite another thing to make a promise "to" God. They are completely different, Bondi.

So which one is allowed, the invoking or the promising?


Marsali wrote:
And when you make your Masonic oath, isn't it under the threat of death if you divulge any of the secrets of the society?

Similar variations of them were in use in England among the oaths taken by mariners during the 15th century and were also used in oaths assumed by those being admitted to the bar in London, England during the 16th century. Which of course were later removed, as they have been from Freemasonry.

They, in all instances, were symbolic of the severity of revealing the secrets, and were never at any time actual punishments.

Like, "cross my heart and hope to die, stick a needle in my eye" it's a symbolic reference to how important it is to keep the secret you are going to receive, how many kids do you see in accident and emergency with needles poking out there eyes crying cause the told a secret.

Marsali
11-18-2005, 10:47 AM
Bondi, you wrote..."But saying let your yes be yes and your no be no..."
What the heck does that have to do with what I wrote? It's gibberish.

You wrote...."so which one is allowed, the invoking or the promising?" Again, what the heck does that mean, or what does it have to do with what I wrote? More gibberish.

The threat of the death oath is 'symbolic' for the severity of revealing secrets? So the threat of death is completely unfounded, then. Are the new Masonic initiates told that they are meaningless, and just 'symbolic'?

11-18-2005, 11:05 AM
Marsali wrote:
Bondi, you wrote..."But saying let your yes be yes and your no be no..."
What the heck does that have to do with what I wrote? It's gibberish.

James 5:12 might be gibberish in to, but I am sure others take it quite seriously.

As for what I meant, the scripture was quoted to me in argument to the fact Freemasons take an oath, to which I stated other scenarios in which you do the same.

You then replied with the differences between the types, to which I say, according to the scripture you need only, and should only say yes or no.

Anything is against that scripture.


Marsali wrote:
You wrote...."so which one is allowed, the invoking or the promising?" Again, what the heck does that mean, or what does it have to do with what I wrote? More gibberish.

Not really, you said there was a difference between invoking the name of god and promising to him. Which one is okay to do.

Are you breaking the rules if you invoke the name of god, which by the way you do not do in Freemasonry.

Or are you breaking the rules if you promise something to him.

The questions are quite simple.


Marsali wrote:
The threat of the death oath is 'symbolic' for the severity of revealing secrets?

Correct


Marsali wrote:
So the threat of death is completely unfounded, then.

What part of symbolic is confusing you?


Marsali wrote:
Are the new Masonic initiates told that they are meaningless, and just 'symbolic'?

Actually yes they are;


The Specific Part of the EA Obligation:

The penalties incurred for willful violation of your Masonic Obligation will not be of a physical nature. The penalties that you recite at the conclusion of you Obligation are purely symbolic. This should have been explained in the preparatory address. The Mason who violates his Obligation will subject himself to Masonic discipline, which could include the loss of membership in the Lodge and the Fraternity, either by suspension or expulsion.

I've bolded the important bits for easy reading.

Marsali
11-18-2005, 11:18 AM
Mentioning James 5:12 is a cop out, Bondi. We're not discussing Christianity here, were discussing the Masonic religion, remember?

In regards to my showing that there is a difference between the terms invoking and promising, your asking me which is ok to do? You're supposed to be answering that question, remember? By constantly throwing questions back, you're evading the questions.

Saturnino
11-18-2005, 11:19 AM
Those oaths are basically a way of taking the name of God in vain, if you use His name, or putting yourself under someone else's authority, which is worse.

A Christian belongs to Jesus Christ. When he takes an oath, he basicaly commits himself to another person or institution and puts his allegiance before Christ. That's why a Christian should never take oaths.

Bouncer
11-18-2005, 11:25 AM
"Invoke" can mean more than one thing: it has the traditional denotation of "To call upon for prayer or worship"; it can also mean "To summon a presence for a ritual or a specific purpose of the priest."

The latter meaning usually is the one used in occult practices, as in the invocation of Asmoday, etc. If this is truly the intention of the Freemason rituals then I would caution anyone not to open the door to demonic pacts or interplay of spirits.

On the other hand, if I had no knowlegde of Christ I would consider membership in a lodge very worthwhile and valuable.

Marsali
11-18-2005, 11:26 AM
Well-said, SAT. But of course a Mason would probably say that they do put their allegience in Jesus and God. But not only Jesus and God, of course.
Hiram Abiff will do as well, ar Allah; there's not much distinction.

11-18-2005, 11:30 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Those oaths are basically a way of taking the name of God in vain, if you use His name, or putting yourself under someone else's authority, which is worse.

The word God is never used in lodge. Due to the fact the Freemasonry is not, or a replacement for, religion they use a generic term so if a prayer is said each mason is saying a prayer to his god, whether he be christian, muslim, jew or whatever.

Now the use of a generic term is Freemasonry's way of saying you believe in who you want to believe in, just be true to that faith. This may be wrong in some peoples eyes, and you can twist it, not saying you as you personally, to make it seem they are prayer to some weirdo make believe god, but each mason knows who he is praying to. A Christian Mason, as far as he is concerned, is praying to the same God as you.


Saturnino wrote:
A Christian belongs to Jesus Christ. When he takes an oath, he basicaly commits himself to another person or institution and puts his allegiance before Christ. That's why a Christian should never take oaths.

Does the President, a doctor, a lawyer, a court judge, police officer and many more not swear an oath.

To serve and protect at all that?

As example in England

The Head of State is the Supreme Governor of the Church of England and “Defender of the Faith”. The Coronation Oath sworn by the new Monarch is profoundly Christian.

The Church of England and the Church of Scotland are also ‘by law established’.

Christian oaths are taken by MPs, others in public life and by witnesses in a Court.

11-18-2005, 11:36 AM
Marsali wrote:
Well-said, SAT. But of course a Mason would probably say that they do put their allegience in Jesus and God.

I do not, but that is not my faith, a christian mason does.


Marsali wrote:
But not only Jesus and God, of course.
Hiram Abiff will do as well

Learn who he is, and what allusions are made to him and you will realise how stupid that comment is.


Marsali wrote:
, ar Allah; there's not much distinction.

There is only Allah to a Muslim mason.

There is no religion in Freemasonry, it is no substitute, has no road to salvation and has no religious doctrine to speak of.

It is simple a requirement, to have a faith, before you can join.

If it was it's own religion why would it only allow those who already have one to join. Wouldn't make sense, they'd lose more members than they kept.

Like the White Nationalist Party only admitted coloured people.

At least think about what your writing.

Saturnino
11-18-2005, 11:38 AM
Bondi,

You are again being evasive. Those oaths of "telling the truth" are not allegiance oaths. They don't put you under the authority of anybody. Very different from:

"...binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my breast torn open, my heart plucked out and placed on the highest pinnacle of the temple, there to be devoured by the vultures of the air."

- oath taken by 2nd degree Masons

A Christian says he will tell the truth because of his character and because he represents Jesus on earth, not because of fear of atrocities.

Bondi, I can't believe you don't see the difference.

11-21-2005, 04:54 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Bondi,

You are again being evasive. Those oaths of "telling the truth" are not allegiance oaths. They don't put you under the authority of anybody. Very different from:

"...binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my breast torn open, my heart plucked out and placed on the highest pinnacle of the temple, there to be devoured by the vultures of the air."

- oath taken by 2nd degree Masons

That depends on what ritual you read?

And prior to any obligation is taken the lodge makes a vow to you

WM: Brother ____, before you can proceed further in Freemasonry, it will be necessary for you to take an Obligation appertaining to this degree. It becomes my duty, as well as pleasure, to inform you, that there is nothing contained in the Obligation that conflicts with the duties you owe to God, your country, your neighbor, your family, or yourself. With this assurance on my part, are you willing to take the Obligation?

Firstly if anything of Freemasonry goes against, your faith, country, neighbour, family of yourself, the obligation becomes null and void.

What you obligate yourself to do is

keep and conceal and never reveal any of the secrets belonging to the Degree of Fellow Craft

Which in short, is two words, two grips and a posture.

The obligation is in the form of a promise

I do promise and swear

Not to god, merely on the merit of your own word.

This is why I do not see a difference. I've taken the oaths, I've been reading the rituals a long time and yes you can twist and read extra into them all day long, but in reality it depends what is in the heart of the man taking it, and what it means to him.

A Christian says he will tell the truth because of his character and because he represents Jesus on earth, not because of fear of atrocities.

Like I said the penalties are symbolic, the same as the childrens rhyme I qouted, but this seems to be side stepped and ignored.

A mason obligates himself by his WORD, by his saying "I will not tell" and to emphasise the strength of his word symbolically says if I break my word you can punish me, it is not meant as Freemasonry saying if you leak the info we'll do this to you, it is the Freemason saying I am true to my word that if I were to leak the info you could do this.

The obligation is taken parrot fashion, in the present tense. It is all "I" and not "You" basic grammer denotes this is the person and not the Fraternity.

Bondi, I can't believe you don't see the difference.

Like I said above, I see no difference. You swear on a bible, you are swearing to the Christian god, and according to a previous comment, anything other than a Yes or No is not allowed.

If what the previous person has said is wrong, fair enough. If my interpretation of what they are saying is wrong fair enough, but the let your yes be yes, to me, means give your word by your own character, and don't use the name of god to emphasise it.

Freemasons don't, for sure I can't I'm not a Christian so how, or why, I would swear using that I do not know.

I am accused of being evasive, because I can't answer a question that is not correct.

The obligation of a Freemason is not one of allegiance, but a mans word not to let the secrets out, it binds you to nothing else.

It is the information I give that is evaded and ignored.

igwt
11-21-2005, 05:54 AM
Interesting site.

Temple Of The Golden Throne (http://neverknwo.gnn.tv/blogs/10076/THE_TEMPLE_OF_THE_GOLDEN_THRONE_DRAGON_PHOTO_GALLE RY)

11-21-2005, 06:32 AM
It's nice to read alternates.

Never seen the 6 pointed star used to show the seal reading an acronym for Shriners. Normally they go for the easy one of re-arranging the letters to spell Mason.

11-21-2005, 06:39 AM
Marsali wrote:
Mentioning James 5:12 is a cop out,

Couldn't agree more, which is why I didn't bring it up. You really should read threads from the start, or at least go back a page if you are intending to jump on the bandwagon.

igwt
11-21-2005, 06:55 AM
The "Illuminati" sounds fantastic but it is NOT a chimera. Hidden within Freemasonry, it is the Church of Satan. Its membership was known; its premises were raided. Plans and correspondence were seized and published. Defectors attested to the grave danger at formal inquiries. It was suppressed but went underground. It has since grown so powerful that it has literally defined the modern age (under the guise of "progress," "reform" and "revolution") and now threatens the future of humanity.

An Illuminati Primer (http://www.savethemales.ca)

11-21-2005, 07:20 AM
igwt wrote:
The "Illuminati" sounds fantastic but it is NOT a chimera.

Which group are you talking about?

I would presume it is the latest version, the Bravarian lot? Who are defunk.


igwt wrote:
Hidden within Freemasonry, it is the Church of Satan.

I believe I covered this particular bit, and I feel it really unnecessary to comment again as the most naive researcher, I mean even Icke, knows and quotes the fact that Weishaupt's Illuminati "INFILTRATED" Freemasonry, and only in Germany and France.

Some info that I am sure you keen researchers are aware of, and know already but simple choose to ignore.


1st May 1776, with the financial support of the House of Rothschild, Weishaupt founded a German expression of Illuminism, not the original, not a new group, but a borrowed ideal from the Roshaniya, The Illuminated men of Afghanistan.

The original inner council was structured around the pentagraman consisted of five men: Weishaupt’s friend, Kölmer,
Sir Francis Dashwood (of the satanic Hellfire Club),
Alphonse Donatién de Sade (from whom derives the word “sadism”),
Meyer Amschel Rothschild (founder of the powerful banking house)
Weishaupt himself.

It was Weishaupts wing of Illuminati that infilitrated (I use the same word as the well known conspiracists of Icke, Jones etc, notice it's not in joint effort, known by, or anything that denotes a joint venture) the Freemason lodges of Germany and France to expand and increase his Illuminati membership numbers.

Baron Adolf von Knigge joined Weishaupt in 1782 , he was a Mason of considerable standing in his area, and helped infiltrate (theres that word again) European Masonry for anti-Christian, anti-monarchial, anti-social and pro-revolutionary ends. von Knigge is said to have sided with the Illuminati of Weishaupt because he felt Freemasonry was weak not to stand against the Church and did not follow his own viewpoints on politics and religion.



igwt wrote:
Its membership was known; its premises were raided. Plans and correspondence were seized and published. Defectors attested to the grave danger at formal inquiries.

I a glad you bring that up.

The first "leak" as it were of the Illuminati plan, and what prevented Freemasonry from being a pawn in its plan was the, shall we say "divine" intervention of a lightning bolt, striking an Illuminised courier.

Had dare I say God, or nature, not intervened, all Europe might well have gone the way of France (not world, just France) and the then coming “Terror.”

Weishaupt’s infiltration of Masonry might have been successful had the courier not been blown off his horse 1785, and we may of been singing off the same hymn sheet.

The courier was carrying papers written in the cipher of Illuminism, and dealt with, noe this is the important bit DO NOT SKIP the plans of the Illuminati to subvert the Masons and the governments of Europe. (again these are not the descriptions of organisations working together, or infact of one being knowledgeable of the actions of the other)

The Illuminati were obliged to go underground; yet still greatly influenced the Grand Orient Lodge and the occult rites of Memphis and Mizraim (Egyptian Freemasonry) Which is not recognised, highly frowned upon and what cause the United Grand Lodge of England and most other GL of the world not to "recognise" (not to affiliate with, be friends with, coerce with or discuss things with) The Grand Orient of France, the only part of Freemasonry, ever effected by Weishaupts merry bunch of misfits, and is no longer apart of Freemasonry, the global organisation you all enjoy to make claims against.

neenafoof
11-21-2005, 08:09 AM
Okay, say I just joined an organization, that WAS a secret society. I knew this. That it was SECRET. And, that there was knowledge that wasn't going to be revealed to me unless I passed someone's test/eye-balling, whatever, to be promoted. DING, DING, DING... Stop right there! And, I couldn't devulge names of others in the organization.

I would say to myself, self I think you are involved in something NEFARIOUS!! Simply a no-brainer.

Isn't it extremely arrogant for any Freemason unless they are sitting up there on the pinnacle to be saying ANYTHING!!! They don't know, they know they don't know. Isn't it indicative of their milieu? Of course it is.

Bottom line, from Templer Society they came - with their pillaged money - to me they are simply pirates, greedy, usurping pigs, indeed.

I'm so sure Freemasonry is simply THE RAGE in the UK. That's the hub of it all isn't it?

11-21-2005, 08:20 AM
neenafoof wrote:
Okay, say I just joined an organization, that WAS a secret society. I knew this. That it was SECRET. And, that there was knowledge that wasn't going to be revealed to me unless I passed someone's test/eye-balling, whatever, to be promoted. DING, DING, DING... Stop right there! And, I couldn't devulge names of others in the organization.

Okay, how did you know of the organisation?

What could it possibly teach your that you dont already know?

Why would you join a SECRET organisation and want to reveal the names of the other members?

I'm sorry your scenario makes no sense at all?


neenafoof wrote:
I would say to myself, self I think you are involved in something NEFARIOUS!! Simply, a no-brainer.

I would have to ask yourself, if you know its a SECRET organisation, that claims to have secret knowledge, that it wont share with you unless you fit it, Why would you want to join it in the first place?


neenafoof wrote:
Isn't it extremely arrogant for any Freemason

How have we got from your imaginary, incoherant, scenario to Freemasonry?


neenafoof wrote:
They don't know, they know they don't know. Isn't it indicative of their milieu? Of course it is.

Maybe you should elaborate on what you are saying.

You've created a make believe scenario, of a group of pure fiction, with requirements of pure fiction and characteristics of pure fiction and then made a claim of Freemasonry?


neenafoof wrote:
I'm so sure Freemasonry is simply THE RAGE in the UK. That's the hub of it all isn't it?

Not really.

igwt
11-21-2005, 08:26 AM
A Freemason's 33rd Degree Initiation (http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm)

11-21-2005, 08:43 AM
igwt wrote:
A Freemason's 33rd Degree Initiation (http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/33rd_Initiation.htm)

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oh Jimmy's words get quoted so often.

Jim Shaw was indeed a Mason and was active in the Scottish Rite bodies of Florida. He became a Mason in 1945 and demitted (requested that he be removed from active membership) in 1966. Despite the claims made in his book, he was provably NOT the Master of a Masonic lodge nor did he ever receive the honorary 33rd Degree of the Scottish Rite Bodies of Freemasonry.


By peddling this information without checking out the authenticity, is one slander, two hate mongering and three detrimental to the character and relationship Freemasonry should share with the communities of the world.

igwt
11-21-2005, 09:01 AM
Freemasonry: A fraternal order revived in the early 18th century in England, loosely based on associations or guilds of stone cutters (“operative” masons). Freemasonry (“speculative” masons) sought to give philosophical, moral, or spiritual meaning to the lodge, tools, and oaths of the stone cutters. Branches of Freemasonry include the Blue Lodge, York Rite, Scottish Rite, and Shriners. Affiliated organizations include the Order of the Eastern Star (for women), the Order of DeMolay (for boys), and the Order of Rainbow (for girls). Most modern adherents maintain that the organization is not a religion but a club or fraternity promoting high moral values and good works. They believe, therefore, that Freemasonry is compatible with and supplements Christianity and other religions. Critics counter that Freemasonry involves secret blood oaths or curses, and that the writings of respected early leaders (Albert Mackey, Albert Pike, etc.) are replete with occult philosophy and religious doctrine contrary to Christianity. Despite Freemasonry’s promotion and funding of a number of worthwhile, philanthropic endeavors (free Shriner children hospitals, nursing homes, etc.), many Christian individuals and churches have condemned Freemasonry or warned of elements that they believe are contrary to Christianity. These churches include the Presbyterian Church of America, Southern Baptist Convention, Episcopal Church, Christian Reformed Church, Church of the Nazarene, and Lutheran Church (Missouri and Wisconsin Synods).

Watchman Org (http://www.watchman.org/cat95.htm#Freemasonry)

11-21-2005, 09:13 AM
Very nice article.

It doesn't claim accuracy, but stipulates the opinion of others.

It is very American, due to the affiliate organisations etc not being a global thing, but other than that a well written piece.

If only more were so.

igwt
11-21-2005, 09:37 AM
http://freemasonrywatch.org/pics/s_c_embroidered.gif

11-21-2005, 09:41 AM
wouldn't bother with Freemasonry Watch personally, they claim Freemasonry is anywhere they see an angle of 90 degrees. :lol:

There are better sites, with better info out there.

11-21-2005, 11:04 AM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/ScreenHunter_41.jpg
At the corner of Petaluma Boulevard and Western Avenue sits an imposing three-story Victorian Italianate, which is the home of the Petaluma Masonic Lodge. Constructed in 1882, the building's exterior features are made of cast iron, and it is the eastern anchor of the Western Avenue Ironfront Row.
LINK
<http://www.sonic.net/~tdn/Masonic.html>
This architectural emblem is on a Masonic Temple, is it your contention that the eye in the pyramid is not a Masonic symbol. In your previous answers you have referred us to your voluminous posts. We are too stupid to find a definitive answer there, so would you be kind enough to answer yes or no to this specific question. Is the eye within the pyramid a Masonic

11-21-2005, 11:08 AM
No need to post the same thing in every thread started.

Just answered it here for you (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2710&start=20&PHPSESSID=3070caef469846726664667d0eb507d5)
Post #29

11-21-2005, 11:09 AM
You are a great disrupter to this site and for that and only that we applaud you.

igwt
11-21-2005, 11:17 AM
Link (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=2710&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=30&PHPSESSID=35e861d9e7bfe92ac1a11d8f50761934)

11-21-2005, 11:23 AM
A couple of examples of the same.

Catholic Forum (http://www.catholic-pages.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=4760)

Christian Symbol Wood Carvings (http://www.kwu.edu/campuslife/woodcarvings.htm)

11-21-2005, 11:27 AM
We have the answer we wanted from you. And you have our attention.

Bouncer
11-21-2005, 02:48 PM
Does anyone have examples of the actual use of secret alphabets? There are geometric and alchemy signs and symbols which I believe are used in simple substitution ciphers by some of these organizations. Does that mean that they sometimes must communicate secrets in a non-secure setting?

11-21-2005, 03:30 PM
Bouncer wrote:
Does anyone have examples of the actual use of secret alphabets?

Do you mean examples of cyphered texts, or of the cyphers themselves.

Most are simple substitution as you stateed, with some having later advancements of have a decryption key.

Freemasonry has a cypher, although techniocally it isn't Freemasonry it is in fact Mark Masonry that uses it, but that is just one of the many mis-quotes that get banded around.

Bouncer
11-21-2005, 03:58 PM
I guess my point in asking is that only casual security is provided by sub's, so it's little more than preventing one from reading over your shoulder, yes?

Helen Fouche Gaines has an excellent book on cryptography, including the solution of poly's. The appendix has all of the frequency and contact frequency tables that an amateur solver would need.

http://www.cryptogram.org/cdb/aca.info/aca.and.you/chap01.html


:-)

11-21-2005, 04:07 PM
Bouncer wrote:
I guess my point in asking is that only casual security is provided by sub's, so it's little more than preventing one from reading over your shoulder, yes?

Depends on what you are talking.

In Freemasonry there is a method to aid memory, which is sometimes call a masonic cypher, by cypher by description isn't really what it is.

An example:

This sentence I have written would be displayed like the following.

T S I H W W B D L T F.

Basic initial which is a visual prompt. It is not unique to Freemasonry, and is used by many actors and public speakers.

The one I mentioned used in Mark masonry could be described as an anti-reading mechanism, although the cypher is the same as taught to most scouts, and is definitely not unique to Freemasonry and is not really intended to keep something private. The cyphered items are not secret and the imagery of the cyphered text is used to encourage thought, and asks the mason to try and work them out. Basically to get them to look for what they already know.

[quote]
Bouncer wrote:
Helen Fouche Gaines has an excellent book on cryptography, including the solution of poly's. The appendix has all of the frequency and contact frequency tables that an amateur solver would need.

http://www.cryptogram.org/cdb/aca.info/aca.and.you/chap01.html[/quote}

Sounds an interesting read.

neenafoof
11-23-2005, 04:55 AM
Anonymous wrote:
"Okay, how did you know of the organisation?"

Hypothetically speaking, it could have been a myriad of ways.

Don't be coy, if you had an intent to join the Freemasons or Templers, it was because you wanted an increase in power/wealth/prestige. All about cultivating connections for the social/business climber, a kiss-up, kick-down type.

It would go without saying that one would be narcissist. Stuck in that hall of mirrors.
Fashioned themselves a real mover and shaker, very manipulative, a real Darwinist. Incapable and flawed by only thinking about themselves, hoarding, building empires, large and small. Someone who was incapable of thinking of losing. Someone predatory who was there for the connections and investiment tips. Beneath it all harboring a jealousy and hatred for all mankind. Superficial charm and obsequiousness got you accepted by those above, ruthlessness got you promoted.

To the Freemason, I am sure the lodge was a place to get their narcissistic supply. Bragging and forming cliques, oneupmanship. Then the pathetic maggots probably went home and sucked-up to their more manipulative persnickety queen of the universe trophy wives who actually had them wrapped around their little finger with a bat of eyelash and flip of hair.

All Freemasonry is is a vehicle to worldly increase for the predatory Darwinist-types. If your personal credo is the end justifies the means.

Anonymous wrote:
"That could it possibly teach you that you dont already know?"

(Very New Age of you. How Luciferic)

See above.

All the ritualistic crap - meant nothing. (Do you guys really show your man boobies and wear aprons?).

It should have been presented as want a piece of the Zionist booty? Be a part of the Synagogue of Satan. Sell your soul? God or Mammon. Serial bully by nature? Ah yes, Freemasonry. Can't PUT A MAN IN SOLOMON'S TEMPLE. Noone but a part of the Synagogue of Satan would do otherwise.

Anonymous wrote:
"Why would you join a SECRET organisation and want to reveal the names of the other members?"

Hypothetically speaking, I'm ruthless remember. I would do whatever it took for my self-promotion. If I could incorporate that information as part of my framework to slander a perceived rival and get away with it, why not. But I fly below the radar, I'm a good actor, I can adjust my outward behavior for situational ethics.

Anonymous wrote:
"I'm sorry your scenario makes no sense at all?"

Says who, you? That's like the word of God I suppose.

Anonymous wrote:
"I would have to ask yourself, if you know its a SECRET organisation, that claims to have secret knowledge, that it wont share with you unless you fit it, Why would you want to join it in the first place?"

See above.

Anonymous wrote:
"How have we got from your imaginary, incoherant, scenario to Freemasonry?"

Incoherant? Assinine; certainly are proving my point aren't you.

Because history says I am right and you are wrong and it is identical to the above scenario and you know it but you won't say it....something about whose your daddy!

Let me reiterate, unless you are at the pinnacle you don't really know enough to run a PR campaign. Because its bull (golden bull to you).

Isn't it indicative of their milieu? Of course it is. Get it - SECRET society. It must be so easy to manipulate the arrogant who can't fathom beyond their ego.

(Yeah, lets all get caught up in bizzare rituals and focus on the alignment of the planets to bring in the Aeon of Horus, to what decimate the world for Satan. Like you would be so important to be spared by the winner of the monopoly game.) If you put your hand on a hot burner, do you like it?

I am sure that those at the entry level DID NOT
give a rats ass about all the silly ritualistic behavior. You might as well have sat around and had a poker game, it was just something to do, meaningless to pass the time, the other agenda was what went on separate from all the idiotic stuff.

Luciferianism isn't that complicated - if your from Cain's seedline it is all you know to do.

Anonymous wrote:
"Maybe you should elaborate on what you are saying."

Hehe.. and maybe you should fall into a black hole, but I think I obliged you.

Anonymous wrote:
"You've created a make believe scenario, of a group of pure fiction, with requirements of pure fiction and characteristics of pure fiction and then made a claim of Freemasonry?"

So what. Do you lack vision? History says I'm right and you are wrong. Templer, Hoarder, Pirate, Satanist, Luciferian, Antichrist-loving, Usurper, World Decimator, Torturer, Enslaver, Mass Murderer, Snyogogue of Satan, Designated Loser of Eternity. Hence, very jealous and pissed off.

As I said, I'm so sure Freemasonry is simply THE RAGE in the UK. That's the hub of it all isn't it?

Anonymous wrote:
"Not really."

You lie.

freeman
11-23-2005, 05:51 AM
All Freemasonry is is a vehicle to worldly increase for the predatory Darwinist-types. If your personal credo is the end justifies the means.

Amen, my son. Well said.

(Yeah, lets all get caught up in bizzare rituals and focus on the alignment of the planets to bring in the Aeon of Horus, to what decimate the world for Satan. Like you would be so important to be spared by the winner of the monopoly game.)

Precisely the pitfall that Masonry leads to. The elitism and narcissism of the Craft convince its members that they are enlightenend and superior, while the truth is that they are the ultimate patsies for the New World Order. Once again, I suggest another look at Dr. Henry's excellent essay:


Terminated! Freemasonry's Final Revelation (http://www.savethemales.ca/000280.html)

neenafoof
11-23-2005, 06:40 AM
Praise the Lord! Sometimes it feels like a song off of Pink Floyd's Animals doesn't it. :-D

Bouncer
11-23-2005, 01:30 PM
Another thing that it does is simply to fulfill the Weishauptian agenda of feeding lies and confusion to people: "Teach lies that we know are lies . . .".

Hey, let's face it: a lot of men really swear by the fellowship, connections, friends, and help in times of need that they get from fellow Freemasons. When I moved to a new area and went to a church, I was simply ignored for months and when I finally went to a Bible study there were red faces and snide remarks about homosexuality. Where does this crap come from in the "church"?

If I were a Mason, I could go to a temple just about anywhere and be accepted as family. That's a fact.

freeman
11-23-2005, 05:12 PM
Yes, Bouncer, I do understand the advantages of Freemasonry as well. Problem is they come at too high a price and risk.
If Freemasonry actually did exercise some discipline over its members' personal conduct, instead of just whether or not they give away the organization's secrets, it could be a benign and even commendable institution. I am told that some early versions of the Christian church operated along covert guidelines similar to Masonry in many ways, e. g., secret signs, symbols, etc. in order to avoid detection and persecution by the Roman Empire.
But in its current form the Craft simply allots too much secret power too indiscriminately.

truebeliever
11-24-2005, 09:07 AM
FREEMAN...you REALLY have to stop attacking Masonry. Look at this beautiful building a dear Mason/Illuminati overlord has built in Jerusalem.

See! They are good guys! I wish a foreign person worth trillions? would come along and build a nice "symbolic" Supreme Court in Oz with his own private money!! But I guess that would not be allowed.

And all those links between Judaism and bankers and the occult symbology of the East is SIMPLY a coincidence!

Now you bunch of conspiracy kooks! Leave the poor innocent MAsons ALONE! Clearly stuff like this is PURE coincidence...

I cannot stand lying fucking secret society gimps who will LIE even when it is SHOVED back in their face. Anonamous ya make me wanna puke.

But apart from that you're o.k.

I prefered my mate FREEMASON BOY. We had to extract a couple of things from him, tooth pulling style, but on the whole he was just misguided but generally honest.

You however are a complete freakin fraud and worthy of non stop contempt. If I did'nt have to work for a living I would spend time on you.

The Roots of Evil in Jerusalem
www.TheGoldenReport.com
11-17-3

This report will shock and upset some; it is one I have put off for over 4 years. After struggling with it I have decided now is the time to write it. Knowing it could be misunderstood as anti-Semitic. God forbid that I a Jew should ever say or do anything that would be remotely considered as such, but I must admit this report does not come easy for me. The fact still remains that an evil force has been put into place in Jerusalem and has spread throughout Israel, in preparations for the end time and the seat of the anti-Christ. For if we are to believe that the anti-Christ is to have his seat on the Temple Mount, then we must come to grips with some truths not being preached today. One such truth is the foundation for such a move of the Devil must be underway even as we speak if this is to happen. Or we simply are not in the end days. This report will prove that such a move is underway and has been for quiet some time. It will be accepted by some and rejected by others, but that is the way it goes.

In this report I will use many pictures showing the establishment of the Illuminati and establish proof that there has been a diabolical plot by those we refer to as the New World Order. Showing the architectural design of the New Israeli Supreme Court Building designed and paid for by the Rothchilds reflex the presence of Free Masonry and the Illuminati. I took all but one of the pictures you are about to see so I can assure that what you are seeing is real and in place.

The same families who own and control the Federal Reserve and other major financial institutions have their eyes set on the Temple Mount, and the Holy City of Jerusalem. Just as Scriptures say, the man who will be revealed as the anti-Christ will sit in that place, before the appearance of the Jewish Messiah Yeshua HaMashiach, and many will receive him as their messiah. Just actually how that will come about remains to be seen, but one thing I am convinced of is that Holy men of God will not be the ones to rebuild the Temple, it will be the Illuminati. For God would not send men to that place to perform blood sacrifices. His Son's blood was the perfect sacrifice; there is no need to shed the blood of dumb animals any longer. Yeshua did a perfect work, and it was finished. But He will return and take control of the New Temple that I feel will be built soon. But before He will return this world will have to get in such bad shape that the anti-Christ can be accepted by most as the savior who can bring peace and order to the world. But then you know the rest of that story so lets go on.

For those who may think this article is anti-Semitic I ask you to read an article on (The House Of Satan) http://www.thegoldenreport.com/articles.asp?id=00135 for there are those who call themselves Jews but who are of the house of Satan. And many have found their way into the Israeli Knesset.

Once again Yeshua will enter into that place, the Holy Mountain of God and cleanse it, but before that happens all hell will break loose in Jerusalem and the world. So with all that said I will now show you some things that have never been published before, for the few who are aware have been afraid to speak of it. So I ask you to pray over this servant of God for protection as we go forth with these truths. These truths must be revealed in order for the Body to know how close we are to the Second Coming of Yeshua HaMasiach (Jesus the Messiah).

As this entire report will be built around the construction of this building order by the Rothchilds I should show you a picture of the building. A friend of mine took this picture as he and his wife flew over the area a couple years ago. The Supreme Court building sits on a plot of land opposite the Knesset and next to the Foreign Ministry and the Central bank of Israel. It is important to keep in mind that it sits in line with the Knesset, for we will be talking about Ley-Lines that cross under this pyramid running to the Knesset, with other ley-lines that cross in perfect order to the center of Jerusalem and on to the Rockefellow Museum. Everything about this building has been thought out to the very finest detail, and it is diabolical. The Devils plan has been put into place before we ever had an idea of his plan. He knows his final battle will be here in Jerusalem.

The Engineers who were chosen for this job by the Rothschild's were the grandson and granddaughter of Ben-Zion Guine from Turkey who worked for Baron Rothschild, Ram Kurmi, born in Jerusalem in 1931, and Ada Karmi-Melanede born in Tel-Aviv in 1936. For those who can make something out of the numbers. It was important to the builder to have everything done according to the correct numbers. There were 1,000 sheets of plans, 1,200 cement posts; they worked on the building for 3 years or 750 days. 20 workers each day, for 200,000 workdays, 250,000 building stones, each hand placed.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/supremecourt.jpg

The Israeli Supreme Court in Jerusalem.

The first thing you will notice is the pyramid with the all Seeing Eye just like the one you will see on the American dollar bill, it sits in a circle to the left. We will elaborate on this a little later in this article. The larger circle you see at the bottom of the picture is an inverted-cross designed to walk on. It is the only religious emblem designed to be trampled on under foot. At the top of the picture is a Moslem Gravesite, and just out of view to the right is an Egyptian Obelisk.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/invertedcross.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/obelisk.jpg

To the left just out of sight is a god of the Far East.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/fareastgod.jpg

And all through the building you will detect Hindu Altars. All of this will make more sense as we go along, keep in mind we are talking about the establishment of a form of Government that will usher in the anti-Christ.

There is little proof on the building itself of the presence of the Rothschild's but on an outside wall we find these two items.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/rothschild1.jpg

Pointing to the garden that displays the Egyptian obelisk.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/rothschild2.jpg

Giving recognition to the Rothschilds, you will notice the Rothschilds emblem at the top. It is the symbol for the founder of the Rothschild Dynasty and his five sons, who established central banks throughout Europe. The Rothschilds made several stipulations with the Israeli Government before the building began, among them were. The Rothschilds would pick the plot of land to build the Supreme Court; they would use their own architects, and no one would ever know how much the building cost. It took them four years to build this structure with many secrets built into it.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/pictureonthewall.jpg

After passing through security the first thing you will notice
on the left wall is a large picture.

From the left you will see Teddy Kollek, then Lord Rothschild, on the right standing you will see Shimon Peres, and setting at the bottom left Yhzhak Rabin. And others who brought us the Olso death process that we are now faced with.

But this is where our journey begins as we begin to enter into the building, for this entire journey is intended to bring one from darkness into the light, and become an Illuminated one.

You first enter into an area with very dim lighting, but as you look up the stairs you see the bright light that comes from a very large window that over looks parts of Jerusalem.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/darknesstolight.jpg

Here it is very important to count the steps; there are three sets of 10 steps, making a total of 30. As you ascend these 30 steps you come from the darkness into the light. And from here you can see the world or in this case the city of Jerusalem like you haven't seen it before. It is also worth mentioning that on the left side you will see the old Jerusalem Stone, some even believe these same stones were used in the second Temple, but I have no way to prove that. On the other side you will see the smooth modern wall. There are 6 lamp stands going up that speaks to man in his journey to gain knowledge and become illuminated. But once again I feel it necessary to tell you that it's very important to the ones who built this building that everything be perfect and in their order of things, even numerically.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/largewindow.jpg

As we turn to the left and begin to walk towards the Pyramid we notice a metal strip in the marble floor. The Ley-Lines cross directly under the pyramid they run from this place to different places in the city. It is where the Judges and others can stand to receive knowledge and power. Standing directly over a piece of crystal with the all Seeing Eye of Lucifer the light bearer above them.

For those who are not aware of the term Ley-Lines, it is lines in geographical places that Witches, Warlock, and Wizards walk claiming for the Devil. If you will notice in every large city all palm readers and such are usually on the same street that is a ley-line.

Here is a map of Jerusalem, you can see that the Supreme Court Building and the Knesset are connected with one straight line, and at a 90% angle to that line half way is a Ley-line that runs perpendicular. That line runs straight down the middle of a street known as Ben Yehuda, a place where all the crazies meet, and at any given day you can find at least one who calls himself Elijah or Moses. Israelis call Ben Yehuda the freak show. That line runs on to the Rockefeller Museum; and from the Rockefeller Museum a line runs through the Moslem Quarters to the Temple Mount.

I will make this map a little larger to help you out some.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/leylines2.jpg

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/leylines.jpg

Just before entering under the pyramid there is a window you can look up at the pyramid, you will notice the ley-line that runs to the center of the pyramid.


http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/pyramid2.jpg

For a moment lets go back to the top of the 30 steps, as we know there are 33 degrees in Free Masonry but the last three are the ones of higher learning and preparations to enter the Illuminati. So as we move from the top of the stairs towards the Pyramid we see a great library with three tiers to those three levels of higher learner. They three final steps in Free Masonry and after that if ones choose to go higher and have been accepted they enter the highest levels of the Illuminati. It is also important in this building to note that the 33rd level ends at the base of the Pyramid.


http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/library.jpg

This is a very large and expensive Library, but there is something else about this one that should be mentioned. The first tier is "only" for Lawyers; the second tier is "only" for setting Judges. The highest and third tier is "only" for retired judges. Which also speaks of the order of things in the Illuminati, as one must be accepted and move to the higher level before the knowledge at that level is available to them. And directly above that third tier is the Pyramid with the all seeing eye of Luther. That begins the journey into the Illuminati.

Directly under the Pyramid you see 6 squares. Six being the number of man, and each square has 4 sides speaking to the world. In the center directly under the point of the pyramid a crystal so that when one stand over it he of she is in direct line from the point of the pyramid and the crystal below.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/sixsquares.jpg

There are five Courtrooms, each has an entrance in the shape of a Jewish Tomb, with the opening above the door for the spirit to have freedom to enter or leave. The wall with the courtroom entrances has a curve to it, while the outer wall is straight. There are two things said about his, some say it speaks to the straight line of Justice, and the curve line of Mercy, yet others say it speaks of order out of chaos. The motto of the Illuminati. There are three Judges who set in each courtroom, and above the seats of the Judges there are smaller pyramids that shed light onto the Judges as they sit over those who are brought up from the prisons cells below. The Judges chambers are above the courtrooms and they come down to bring light to those who are brought up from below.


http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/courtrooms.jpg

I have done a small cut away from the whole plan of the building in order to show you the design of a Jewish Miskan brought into the plan, as all the other major religions of the world are represented in one form or another. As you walk from the pyramid you can go either to the courtrooms or towards the Judges chambers. But this is what that part of the building looks like, making the pyramid the holy of holies in this evil Miskan "Temple".

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/likemiskan.jpg

The bottom part of the above picture is the courtyard, and here we find finished stones brought in from the desert near Mitzpe Ramon where we find the worlds largest natural crater. A narrow channel of water that runs continually divides the stones. The architects claim to have been inspired from the Scriptures in Psalms 85:11 Truth shall spring up from the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven. For the Judges sit above this courtyard looking down.


http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/courtyard.jpg

When you leave the center Courtroom or main courtroom directly across the opening you find the stairs going downstairs, at the base of the stairs you will find the fertility symbol always present in any illuminati structure, often hidden but always there. Much can be said about this symbol and the symbol of the masons with the compass and square with the "G" in the middle, but I will leave that for another time or for someone else.

http://www.rense.com/1.imagesE/fertility.jpg

In Conclusion


We have just lightly touched on the significance of this building for there are literally hundreds of details that point to the Illuminati and their plans for mankind. But more important to this report it establishes a base for the seat of the one that will be accepted by most as the messiah, before Yeshua returns to set up his reign and rule over the earth. I have no doubt that many will come against this report, and that the messenger rather than the message will be attacked. But I have tried to lay it out with proof and facts much more could be said and I am sure this will provoke others to say them, and possibly that is the intent of this article.

But as we all know God has a plan and it will not be stopped or detoured. Part of His plan is for His people the Jews to return home to Israel. For some Scriptures on that you could read the following verses. Isa. 60:9, Isa. 43:5-6, Jer. 16:14-15, Jer. 16:16, Isa. 49:22, Exe. 36:8 Eze. 36:24, Eze. 37:12, Eze. 39:28 just to mention a few.

So as always I will close with by asking you to pray about helping us purchase the needed vessel for that purpose.

Pray for the peace of Jerusalem, for our son Joel and all the IDF soldiers, for al those who have come to fight the Islamic enemy. Pray for this Ministry and your part in it. Shalom, jerry golden

Reproduced From Rense.
http://www.rense.com/general44/gikdeb.htm

Now, what is a filthy rich international financiere with roots to Mr Bauer aka: Rothschild, doing building ancient Egyptian and Eastern style symbolic Supreme Courts in Jerusalem?

Why, i'd hazard a guess ANONAMOUS. How about you? Or will you be ignoring as is the style of a low rung gimp lackey in Da Bruthahoooooood...

Original thread and comments here. (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1567&forum=13&post_id=12762#forumpost12762)

truebeliever
11-25-2005, 09:50 AM
What?

Where are "Ma Fraternal Bruddahhhhhhs"?

Surely theres a post or two that the Mason/Illuminati apolagists can throw in here to "diffuse" the obvious?

Hmmmm, nah, maybe not. This building speaks for itself.

Yawnnnnnnnn..another frontal assault beaten back.

iLLusionist
12-04-2005, 06:15 PM
thats BS if someone says theres no connection between the pyramid on the great seal and freemasons.


how would they explain this???
http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/gtseal3.gif http://www.geocities.com/theawakeningnews/great_seal_MASON.gif

all the points spell out mason.... i know thats no coincidence.

Indred
12-04-2005, 06:22 PM
I agree.
The eye in the triangle at the top of the pyramid is the all seeing eye period. Now lets watch someone write 50,000 words explaining how it is not, and guess what it still will be.

Bouncer
12-05-2005, 03:38 PM
B: And how did you receive this knowledge, brother?
I: I received it by thinking.
B: Oh, do not reveal the secret to seeing the obvious. Did you get the password?
I: Yes, we can spell it or we can syllable it.
B: If we don't spell it out, nobody else will get it.
I: Correctomundo, dude.

LaDominio
12-05-2005, 06:30 PM
Bouncer wrote:
B: And how did you receive this knowledge, brother?
I: I received it by thinking.
B: Oh, do not reveal the secret to seeing the obvious. Did you get the password?
I: Yes, we can spell it or we can syllable it.
B: If we don't spell it out, nobody else will get it.
I: Correctomundo, dude.

Who or what is 'B'?

Bouncer
12-07-2005, 10:45 AM
Stands for Bouncer. Just a little parody. Let's face it: the fathers were Masons and decorated anything they wanted with Masonic symbols. I have a cross above my door at home because I'm a Christian. Probably the same thing.

igwt
12-07-2005, 12:45 PM
This site just gets more and more interesting! :lol:

Bouncer
12-07-2005, 01:38 PM
SO, OK, let's revisit one of the greatest milestones on the way to Armageddon . . .

The rebuilding of Solomon's Temple:

Motive: Zionism; alleged discovery of the Ark of the Covenant.

Means: The aforementioned funding from one of the leading Council members, whose family were at the vanguard of illuminati consolidation.

Opportunity: [ fill in this space] How can they break ground in Jerusalem? What would protect one of the most controversial Zionist projects yet to be seen? Any ideas??? :-D :-D :-D