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11-22-2005, 11:24 AM
Apparent founder Duane Washem, and organisation of half a dozen members on paper only.

Duane's reasons for leaving Masonry has be re-written and copy pasted all over the internet.

In short Duane was a Mason for a few years, serving as an officer several times, and even serving his lodge as Master, Duane decided that the prayers in lodge should be addressed to Jesus Christ.

Now with Freemasonry being a non-sectarin Fraternal organisation, a sectarian religious view is not fitting, so Duane leaves.

There is nothing wrong with Duane feeling everyone should be a Christian, I am sure every Christian out there believes the same. The problem is that Duane states he was oblivious to the fact Freemasonry wasn't a bespokely Christian order.

Unfortunatley even Duanes family members are unconvinced by his claims, his brother who signed his petition is still, or as far as I am aware, active in the lodge.

It doesn't help that Duanes little story is almost the same as Mitchells, including the familt situation.

Duane stepped up his game by including a "Self-Proclaimed" minister who inlcuded his prayer requests and come chap from the Promise Keepers.

Although the website claims to have turned masons away from the lodge by the millions, they still list less than a dozen members.

Noteable members

Lora Burton, how she counts seeing as she cannot be a Freemason I haven't worked out yet.

Jack Harris - another person of great intellect who took years to work out what he know peddles as fact.

Bill Schnoebelen - the only man to be a witch, a mormon, a Freemason all at the same time as studying for a theological masters.

Yet another reliable source.

Saturnino
11-22-2005, 11:28 AM
another ad-hominem attack.

It is funny that you have Alesiter Crowley on your side, but if we say that Masonry is evil because of the bunch of pervs that it embraces, you say we are not fair. Then you attack personally the people on the other side.

Bondi, your intelectual strategy is extremely dishonest.

Stick to what they say, Bondi ! Answer their allegations.

If you continue to be evasive and intelectually dishonest, there is no reason for this discussion to continue.

11-22-2005, 11:36 AM
You claim I am dishonest because I do not comment on a dishonest persons claim?

How can you put forward a persons point, who is either a proven liar, not even involved or been involved with Freemasonry and claim the point is valid or true.

Saturnino
11-22-2005, 11:51 AM
For you, everybody who is against Masonry is dishonest, like for Bush everyone against the Iraqi war is a coward.

In this way, you don't have to answer anything. And that's exactly what you have done.

11-22-2005, 11:57 AM
Truebeliver's lapdog has spoken and in it unbounded dignity has solved all problems by an ample spreading of BULLSHIT. All bow to the Queen of Idiots, but on an intellectual level.

KSigMason
12-30-2008, 01:03 PM
In short Duane was a Mason for a few years, serving as an officer several times, and even serving his lodge as Master, Duane decided that the prayers in lodge should be addressed to Jesus Christ.

---

There is nothing wrong with Duane feeling everyone should be a Christian, I am sure every Christian out there believes the same. The problem is that Duane states he was oblivious to the fact Freemasonry wasn't a bespokely Christian order.
Every Masons is taught this when they join so he must not have been paying attention. Freemasonry allows men of every faith in so secular beliefs cannot be permitted to be spoken about in Lodge. I personally think he just wanted to ignore the rules.

BlueAngel
12-30-2008, 07:32 PM
Every Masons is taught this when they join so he must not have been paying attention. Freemasonry allows men of every faith in so secular beliefs cannot be permitted to be spoken about in Lodge. I personally think he just wanted to ignore the rules.

What hypocrites.

You have to be of a religion to become a Freemason, but you are disallowed from speaking about your faith.

Go figure!

So, what's the point in having to be a believer in GOD if you can't talk about your beliefs?

It's a front.

Everyone who is a Freemason must believe in GOD, so, therefore, they must be a GOOD organization, but don't open your mouth about your belief in any GOD.

That's a no, no.

Freemasonry attracts those who are religious because the prerequisite for joining is to be of a faith, yet you are forbidden to talk about your beliefs.

What hypocrites.

The top Freemasons are probably atheists.

A bunch of MEN who are involved in children's charities and ORPANAGES.

The less fortunate.

Yikes!

These are the most vulnerable children in our society.

KSigMason
12-30-2008, 08:34 PM
What hypocrites.

You have to be of a religion to become a Freemason, but you are disallowed from speaking about your faith.

Go figure!

So, what's the point in having to be a believer in GOD if you can't talk about your beliefs?

It's a front.

Everyone who is a Freemason must believe in GOD, so, therefore, they must be a GOOD organization, but don't open your mouth about your belief in any GOD.

That's a no, no.

Freemasonry attracts those who are religious because the prerequisite for joining is to be of a faith, yet you are forbidden to talk about your beliefs.

What hypocrites.

The top Freemasons are probably atheists.

A bunch of MEN who are involved in children's charities and ORPANAGES.

The less fortunate.

Yikes!

These are the most vulnerable children in our society.
You are such a pessimist.

BlueAngel
12-30-2008, 09:18 PM
You are such a pessimist.

Speaking the truth doesn't make one a pessimist.

If I weren't an OPTIMIST, I wouldn't be where I am today.

KSigMason
12-30-2008, 09:42 PM
Speaking the truth doesn't make one a pessimist.
But you are not speaking the truth about the Freemasons.

BlueAngel
12-30-2008, 09:44 PM
But you are not speaking the truth about the Freemasons.

Tell me EXACTLY what I have said about the FREEMASONs that isn't the truth?

I expect a full report.

Thank you.

KSigMason
12-30-2008, 09:52 PM
Tell me EXACTLY what I have said about the FREEMASONs that isn't the truth?

I expect a full report.

Thank you.
Okay.

You call us hypocrites, we are not. You infer Masons to be pedophiles, we are not. Someone has said they are criminals, we are not. It's been inferred that we are behind the NWO, we are not.

BlueAngel
12-30-2008, 09:56 PM
Okay.

You call us hypocrites, we are not. You infer Masons to be pedophiles, we are not. Someone has said they are criminals, we are not. It's been inferred that we are behind the NWO, we are not.

You are hypocrites.

That's a fact.

You must be of a religion to join, but you can't speak of your religion and Freemasonry is not a religion.

Hypocrite defined.

I don't infer Mason's to be pedophiles.

I never said they were criminals.

I never said they were behind the NWO.

And, even if I did, so what?

As if YOU know all about FREEMASONRY!?! and the roots of this organization since its' inception into the US.

YOU cannot speak for all FREEMASONS.

Period.

So, don't even try.

KSigMason
12-31-2008, 10:38 AM
You must be of a religion to join, but you can't speak of your religion and Freemasonry is not a religion.
This is because we are made up of men from multiple religions. If I, especially as Master, started saying that my religion was the only one that was right it would cause discontent and ill-will among the Brethren. This is why we don't talk about SECULAR religion. We can talk about God as the Supreme Being or Great Architect of the Universe so no ones Deity is put on a higher level any other Brother's. Equality is the great aim here.

And, even if I did, so what?
Without proof you are just defaming us and that is wrong.

As if YOU know all about FREEMASONRY!?! and the roots of this organization since its' inception into the US.
I've done extensive search and I know quite a bit about the Fraternity since its inception.

YOU cannot speak for all FREEMASONS.
I can speak on the spirit of Freemasonry, what a Freemason is supposed to be, and how they are supposed to act. That I can speak for all of Freemasonry on. Every organization has a bad apple, that is why we have judicial rules on how to kick a Brother out for conduct unbecoming.

VillageIdiot
01-01-2009, 06:51 AM
YOU cannot speak for all FREEMASONS.


Yet you can speak against all Masonry?

KSigMason
02-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Yet you can speak against all Masonry?
Exactly, they think they somehow know more than the members.

BlueAngel
02-09-2009, 10:48 PM
Yet you can speak against all Masonry?

I have said.

And, I will repeat.

That an all male organization involved in children's charities concerns me.

That is my opinon.

If you perceive it to be speaking against against all Masonry.

Oh, well.

Deal with it.

BlueAngel
02-09-2009, 10:49 PM
Exactly, they think they somehow know more than the members.

Exactly.

You think you know more about Freemasonry than anyone else who has researched it, even though you're a low man on the the totem pole.

You can't speak for all FREEMASONS.

Period!

You're only one and the conception of FREEMASONRY exceeds your life span.

KSigMason
02-09-2009, 11:29 PM
You think you know more about Freemasonry than anyone else who has researched it, even though you're a low man on the the totem pole.
If you knew the structure of Freemasonry you wouldn't make such sensationalist claims.

BlueAngel
02-09-2009, 11:33 PM
If you knew the structure of Freemasonry you wouldn't make such sensationalist claims.

Freemasonry has existed longer than your life span and, therefore, you know very little.

I make no sensationalist claims.

You are lying.

KSigMason
02-10-2009, 12:39 AM
Freemasonry has existed longer than your life span and, therefore, you know very little.
The same can be said to you with the addition you are not in the organization and not privy to everything.

BlueAngel
02-10-2009, 07:31 PM
The same can be said to you with the addition you are not in the organization and not privy to everything.

Pardon me, but I have never claimed to be an expert on Freemasonry.

I stated an opinion and you seem to interpret this as me declaring I know all.

I don't know all and neither do you so, please stop trying to present yourself as Mr. Know it All as far as Freemasonry is concerned.

Just because you are a Freemason does not make you an expert.

You have no clue as to movements of the upper echelon.

KSigMason
02-10-2009, 11:45 PM
You have no clue as to movements of the upper echelon.
You have no clue as to that.

BlueAngel
02-11-2009, 12:04 AM
You have no clue as to that.

You are at a loss for words because I never stated anywhere that I was informed as to the activities of those members who comprise the upper echelon of Freemasonry.

The Old Medic
02-28-2009, 02:54 PM
I am not now, and never have been a member of any Masonic Order.

But my father was a Mason for well over 50 years. NOBODY in his Lodge in Portland, Oregon controlled the local politicians, or much of anything else. My father couldn't even control his 2nd batch of children, or either of his wives.

I also know that the Duane listed in the first post on this subject is a made up person, or a liar.

Nobody become a Master of a Masonic Lodge after a few years. NOBODY! It requires a person that has been a Mason for a number of years, and you then work your way up through the ranks.

So, to claim that he was a Master, etc. is either a false claim, or he was a Mason for a LOT longer than what he is claiming.

The Masons require that their members believe in God, and the vast majority of their members are Christians. In fact, a lot of Protestant clergymen are Masons.

The vast majority of the people that claim that thye are former Masons are just phoney as all get out. They want nto make that claim, to lend some credibility to the crap they make up.

Yes, in some communities in the early 19th century, Masons did exert a lot of local control. Sadly, some members abused their positions, and harmed both members of the order, and non-members. As this became known, those lodges became defunct, and the Masonic orders revamped their procedures and policies to prevent that kind of abuse in the future.

Today, they are a purely social fraternity of men who support a lot of causes (like the Shrine Hospitals for Children, etc.) They have auxillary organizations for boys, girls and women, that also support charitable causes.

By the way, in case ou wonder, I converted to the Roman Catholic Church a long time ago. I AM a member of the Knights of Columbus. I can not join the Masons, under any circumstance.

KSigMason
02-28-2009, 06:52 PM
Nobody become a Master of a Masonic Lodge after a few years. NOBODY! It requires a person that has been a Mason for a number of years, and you then work your way up through the ranks.
That is not exactly true Old Medic. I became Worshipful Master of my Lodge almost 2.5-years to the day after I was made a Master Mason. I'm a rare breed though. Usually it does take years (up to 9-years sometimes), but I was asked to sit in a fairly high chair since it was vacant. I have a somewhat photographic memory and knew the work just by sight.

The Masons require that their members believe in God, and the vast majority of their members are Christians. In fact, a lot of Protestant clergymen are Masons.
A good majority is Christian. In my Lodge we have quite a few Jews, one Muslim, and I believe that is it. I met the Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Arizona and he is a practicing Buddhist.

There are some that defect from the Masons. I actually signed two demits this last meeting because they can't afford it right now. Some demit for other reasons, that is personal, I don't ask. Those who do leave with a sour taste left because it wasn't what they wanted; those are the ones who leave for the wrong reasons. You get out of it, what you put into it.

BlueAngel
02-28-2009, 07:04 PM
That is not exactly true Old Medic. I became Worshipful Master of my Lodge almost 2.5-years to the day after I was made a Master Mason. I'm a rare breed though. Usually it does take years (up to 9-years sometimes), but I was asked to sit in a fairly high chair since it was vacant. I have a somewhat photographic memory and knew the work just by sight.


A good majority is Christian. In my Lodge we have quite a few Jews, one Muslim, and I believe that is it. I met the Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Arizona and he is a practicing Buddhist.

There are some that defect from the Masons. I actually signed two demits this last meeting because they can't afford it right now. Some demit for other reasons, that is personal, I don't ask. Those who do leave with a sour taste left because it wasn't what they wanted; those are the ones who leave for the wrong reasons. You get out of it, what you put into it.

Did they tell you that you were a rare breed to make you feel special?

KSigMason
02-28-2009, 07:42 PM
Did they tell you that you were a rare breed to make you feel special?Nope. I am assuming this since I hold the record for youngest Master and quickest through the chairs.

BlueAngel
03-01-2009, 10:52 PM
Nope. I am assuming this since I hold the record for youngest Master and quickest through the chairs.

Exactly what type of rare breed are you?

Albino?

KSigMason
03-01-2009, 11:34 PM
Exactly what type of rare breed are you?

Albino?
lol...a quick study, someone with a photographic memory...someone that moves very quickly through the ranks.

BlueAngel
03-01-2009, 11:55 PM
lol...a quick study, someone with a photographic memory...someone that moves very quickly through the ranks.

You have a photographic memory.

You move quickly through the ranks.

Unbelieveable!

Should I alert the media as to your extraterrestrial powers?

BlueAngel
03-01-2009, 11:57 PM
You are just incredible. Please tell us. What do these great achievements that you've accomplished during your climb up the ladder within the Freemasonry "cult" provide for MANKIND.

BlueAngel
03-02-2009, 12:17 AM
Do you have an opinion about anything else that is going on in the world other than your spectacular climb into the ranks of Freemasonry?

KSigMason
03-02-2009, 01:41 PM
You have a photographic memory.

You move quickly through the ranks.

Unbelieveable!

Should I alert the media as to your extraterrestrial powers?
There's no reason to be f***ing rude. Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer. I merely pointed out that not many have ascended through the ranks quickly.

You are just incredible. Please tell us. What do these great achievements that you've accomplished during your climb up the ladder within the Freemasonry "cult" provide for MANKIND.
Well apparently human descency and respect since you lack both. Well, I've reformed my Lodge to do more community service and charitable donations.

Do you have an opinion about anything else that is going on in the world other than your spectacular climb into the ranks of Freemasonry?
Outside of this forum, I'm very big in political discussion forums (Conservative Life, DiscussPolitics, PoliticalForum, and several more). I'm very big into gun-rights and hunting. I believe in land conservation. I'm very staunch believer in the Constitution.

I'm also a Army Guard soldier and I work full-time as such. Right now I am

What about you? Do you have an opinion on anything else?

The Old Medic
03-02-2009, 02:31 PM
Blue Angel, you really need to get a life. You are being consumed by your "conspiracy" theories. Please, go get some mental health care, so you won't be tormented with your delusions like this.

I am NOT a Mason, have never been a Mason and never will be a Mason. I can not be a Mason,. because I am an active Roman Catholic, and I am prohibited from becoming one. However, my father was a Mason for over 55 years, my half-brothers are all Masons, and i am very, very familiar with that organization.

The Masons are NOT a cult. They are NOT a religion. They are a social and fraternal order, and they do a great deal for charity in every town where they are located.

The rituals are somewhat different in the Scottish Rite and in the York Rite. The Shriners have their own rituals. So do DeMolay, Eastern Star, and all of the other Masonic organizations. But in no case are any of those organizations a religion or a cult.

Theu do require that you believe in God. But, they have members that belong to most of the major religions of the world, and those members practice their own religious beliefs.

Just like the Elks, the Moose, the Roatay, and many other social and fraternal organizations, the Masonic orders have rituals and procedures.

Virtually any male can join them (they have members of all races and virtually all creeds). They also have organizations for women and children to join. Roman Catholics are NOT allowed to join them (although some do, in violation of the teachings of the Church. You see, the Masons used to be virulently anti-Catholic, and the Church has not yet allowed members to join the Masonic orders.)

You asked what have the Masons done to help mankind? How about the Shriner's hosptals for burned and crippled children? They provide the very best of absolutely free medical care to anyone that needs their services. The Shriners are one of the Masonic Orders.

The Masonic Orders also provide for the widows and orphans of any of their members. They have homes where widows can live, free of charge, and receive supportive services if they are needed. They provide millions of dollars in scholarships every year to the children of members.

They contribute millions upon millions of dollars to charitable organizations each and every year in the US, Canada, Great Britain and in every other country in which they have lodges.

You really need to get out of your "conspiracy loop" and do some reading from sources that don't see a conspiracy or evil behind every leaf. You have a lot of beliefs that simply are NOT based upon any form of reality.

BlueAngel
03-02-2009, 10:30 PM
Blue Angel, you really need to get a life. You are being consumed by your "conspiracy" theories. Please, go get some mental health care, so you won't be tormented with your delusions like this.

I am NOT a Mason, have never been a Mason and never will be a Mason. I can not be a Mason,. because I am an active Roman Catholic, and I am prohibited from becoming one. However, my father was a Mason for over 55 years, my half-brothers are all Masons, and i am very, very familiar with that organization.

The Masons are NOT a cult. They are NOT a religion. They are a social and fraternal order, and they do a great deal for charity in every town where they are located.

The rituals are somewhat different in the Scottish Rite and in the York Rite. The Shriners have their own rituals. So do DeMolay, Eastern Star, and all of the other Masonic organizations. But in no case are any of those organizations a religion or a cult.

Theu do require that you believe in God. But, they have members that belong to most of the major religions of the world, and those members practice their own religious beliefs.

Just like the Elks, the Moose, the Roatay, and many other social and fraternal organizations, the Masonic orders have rituals and procedures.

Virtually any male can join them (they have members of all races and virtually all creeds). They also have organizations for women and children to join. Roman Catholics are NOT allowed to join them (although some do, in violation of the teachings of the Church. You see, the Masons used to be virulently anti-Catholic, and the Church has not yet allowed members to join the Masonic orders.)

You asked what have the Masons done to help mankind? How about the Shriner's hosptals for burned and crippled children? They provide the very best of absolutely free medical care to anyone that needs their services. The Shriners are one of the Masonic Orders.

The Masonic Orders also provide for the widows and orphans of any of their members. They have homes where widows can live, free of charge, and receive supportive services if they are needed. They provide millions of dollars in scholarships every year to the children of members.

They contribute millions upon millions of dollars to charitable organizations each and every year in the US, Canada, Great Britain and in every other country in which they have lodges.

You really need to get out of your "conspiracy loop" and do some reading from sources that don't see a conspiracy or evil behind every leaf. You have a lot of beliefs that simply are NOT based upon any form of reality.

Ah, first of all.

I have a life.

Secondly, I'm not consumed by conspiracy theories.

Thirdly, I have no delusions.

I SAID that I have a problem with an all male fraternity that is involved in children's charities and orphanages, in particular.

PERIOD.

You'll just have to learn to live with my opinion.

BlueAngel
03-02-2009, 10:35 PM
There's no reason to be f***ing rude. Don't ask the question if you don't want to hear the answer. I merely pointed out that not many have ascended through the ranks quickly.


Well apparently human descency and respect since you lack both. Well, I've reformed my Lodge to do more community service and charitable donations.


Outside of this forum, I'm very big in political discussion forums (Conservative Life, DiscussPolitics, PoliticalForum, and several more). I'm very big into gun-rights and hunting. I believe in land conservation. I'm very staunch believer in the Constitution.

I'm also a Army Guard soldier and I work full-time as such. Right now I am

What about you? Do you have an opinion on anything else?

Me, rude?

I think you have confused me with someone else.

I'm always polite!

I'm decent and respectful, as well, and you have asked a very stupid question when inquiring as to whether or not I have an opinion on anything else other than Freemasonry.

Obviously, you don't read the material on this forum because you're too caught up in promoting yourself.

The Old Medic
03-03-2009, 11:01 AM
No, you are NOT respectful at all. You knock everything!

And you constantly change your "reasons" why you object to things. As soon as one of your "straw men" are knocked down, you raise another issue. Nothing will even satisfy you, you "have your opinions".

Funny how YOU are the only person raising all of these issues on these topics. Yet you claim not to be consumed by conspiracy ideas?

Strange how many subjects you respond to, with your ideas of how everyone is controlled, nobody but YOU (and others that think like you) understands how those controls work; how virtually every fraternal organization, the entire Roman Catholic Church and all of its members are out to control the world, corrupt every child on earth, and so on and so on.

That's all you seem to be capable of discussing. You see evil everywhere.


You really are sick Blue Angel. You seriously need mental health treatment for your paranoia.

You are one very, very ill person.

BlueAngel
03-03-2009, 10:32 PM
No, you are NOT respectful at all. You knock everything!

And you constantly change your "reasons" why you object to things. As soon as one of your "straw men" are knocked down, you raise another issue. Nothing will even satisfy you, you "have your opinions".

Funny how YOU are the only person raising all of these issues on these topics. Yet you claim not to be consumed by conspiracy ideas?

Strange how many subjects you respond to, with your ideas of how everyone is controlled, nobody but YOU (and others that think like you) understands how those controls work; how virtually every fraternal organization, the entire Roman Catholic Church and all of its members are out to control the world, corrupt every child on earth, and so on and so on.

That's all you seem to be capable of discussing. You see evil everywhere.


You really are sick Blue Angel. You seriously need mental health treatment for your paranoia.

You are one very, very ill person.

Yep.

I do have MY OWN opinions.

Oh, my, is that a criminal action?

Should I be incarcerated for using my brain without being influenced by the mass media/controllers?

What?

Should I be like the scare crow in the Wizard of Oz?

No way, no how, pal.

What straw men?

Lone wolf, here, as is obvious.

Never said what you accuse me of saying, so you would be WRONG AGAIN.

Oh, no, you're throwing that word around again.

PARANOIA!

Paranoia because I know how things work.

Ha!

Try again.

Seems you're running low on ammunition if all you've got is an eight letter word.

Do you seriously think that by calling me PARANOID and or sick/ill you are accomplishing anything?

If so, I suggest you stop wasting your time.

Use your energy in a more productive manner.

I'm neither sick, paranoid, ill nor do I need a mental health professional, but I am beginning to believe you may benefit profusely from psychiatric help and suggest you seek same as quickly as possible.

Like tomorrow.

KSigMason
03-04-2009, 08:34 PM
Me, rude?

I think you have confused me with someone else.

I'm always polite!
LOL!

I'm decent and respectful, as well, and you have asked a very stupid question when inquiring as to whether or not I have an opinion on anything else other than Freemasonry.
I just reversed the question back onto you. I'm sorry I didn't have my facetious keyboard hooked plugged in when I wrote that post.