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View Full Version : looking for bible verse that says all governments on earth are empowered by satan


Thumper
11-30-2005, 10:24 PM
Alex Jones brings this up from time to time, and given his exaggeration, I'd like verificiation on this.

11-30-2005, 10:46 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Reptoidred2.jpg

Thumper
11-30-2005, 11:56 PM
words, not pictures

George_Bush
12-01-2005, 04:14 AM
Thumper wrote:
Alex Jones brings this up from time to time, and given his exaggeration, I'd like verificiation on this.

Good question, Thumper. If you ever wondered if Satan tries to make deals, there is actually Scripture for it. In Matthew chap. 4, at the Temptation of Christ, Satan tried to make a deal with Jesus Christ.

Actually, this was desperate act of the devil -- Christ already owned it in theory. But, apparently, Satan does in fact have much dominion. He is called the Prince of the Power of the Air in Ephesians. He is called the god of this world in 1 Corinithians.

In the Book of Revelation, it states that he sends out unclean spirits who have a spiritual likeness to frogs. These work specifically to deceive the Kings of the Earth -- those in positions of power.

Read Psalm 2. This states that the Kings of the Earth set themselves against the LORD and his Annointed Christ.

It is not that Satan rules every government by proxy. It is that he is the deceiver of the whole world.

In the end of the matter, Satan once more goes from his abyss to deceive the nations of the four corners of the earth. He leads Gog and the nation of Magog against the camp of the saints. God allows this. But, if you will read in Eziekiel concerning Gog, Gog becomes a symbol in Revelation of all that is against the people of God.

We actually live in this time currently. Satan has already been loosed from his prison for the last time. The Millenial Reign of Christ is ended. We are currently living during the time described in Revelation chapter 20.

And, it is about to end.

Saturnino
12-01-2005, 04:23 AM
1) When Jesus is tempted in the desert, Satan says that all world has been given to him and he an give it to anyone: Jesus doesn't contest this.
Luke 4:6

Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever, I will I give it.

2) In Daniel we see an angel tell him that he was delayed by the Prince of Persia (a high rank demon with sovereignity over Persia). We assume others take care of the rest of the countries.

3) In Revelations we see all th ekings of the world giving their power to the Beast.

There are other verses, but these come to my mind.

In fact, Satan's power is great, but not absolute. He can do only what God allows. There is a Restrainer, the Holy Spirit, that doesn't allow complete evil to take charge. Also, human free will can resist the devil up to a point, not to mention the actions and prayers of the Christians.

nomad
12-01-2005, 05:44 AM
Saturnino wrote:
1) When Jesus is tempted in the desert, Satan says that all world has been given to him and he an give it to anyone: Jesus doesn't contest this.
Luke 4:6

Luk 4:6 And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever, I will I give it.




Proof that 1 man or person CAN rule the entire

planet.

truebeliever
12-01-2005, 06:51 AM
Casting the "Ring" back into the Earth...the job of every human being and the completeness of their life.

That is Tolkiens take...what is the direct Bible equivilent that he no doubt got the idea from?

Of course the same theme runs strongly in the Star Wars Trilogy.

12-01-2005, 08:11 AM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Reptoidred2.jpg
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever, I will, I give it.

igwt
12-01-2005, 08:16 AM
_____ wrote:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Reptoidred2.jpg
And the devil said unto him, All this power will I give thee, and the glory of them: for that is delivered unto me; and to whomsoever, I will, I give it.

Is that the devil himself?

Saturnino
12-01-2005, 08:33 AM
I would trade the world for a face lift, if I were this ugly fellow.

Saturnino
12-01-2005, 08:36 AM
truebeliever wrote:
Casting the "Ring" back into the Earth...the job of every human being and the completeness of their life.

That is Tolkiens take...what is the direct Bible equivilent that he no doubt got the idea from?

Of course the same theme runs strongly in the Star Wars Trilogy.

Probably. The problem is that Tolkien and Lucas think that you can trade black magic by white magic, when they are really the same thing (dialetic thinking again, making us make a false choice).

The choice is between any magic (manipulation of nature for our own purposes and pride) and the sovereginity of God in our lives.

That's why Jesus answered:
Thou shall worship the Lord and nothing else.

igwt
12-01-2005, 08:38 AM
Saturnino wrote:
I would trade the world for a face lift, if I were this ugly fellow.

Gold lol
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Saturnino
12-01-2005, 01:23 PM
I forgot about this verse:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The god of this world (lower case "g") is Satan, of ocurse.

truebeliever
12-01-2005, 07:16 PM
I think rejecting God is a nescessary part of growing up. The ego needs to develop and get full of itself. Then, at the appropriate time when it is strong enough, God taps you on the shoulder.

"Remember Me?"

psholtz
12-01-2005, 07:25 PM
Saturnino wrote:
I forgot about this verse:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The god of this world (lower case "g") is Satan, of ocurse.
The "god of this world" referred to in 2 Cor 4:4 is usually interpreted as the Platonic Demiurge, or, to use Jewish nomenclature, Jehovah (YHVH). It's also the same entity that Jesus designates as being the "Prince of this World", the "Prince" who no longer has any control over Jesus.. Even a cursory reading of Genesis 1 (and cursory knowledge of the Hebrew language) indicates that Jehovah played no part (whatsoever) in the act of Creation. It is from this, as well as other sources (including this Pauline Epistle) that that tradition of equating Jehovah with the Platonic Demiurge (i.e., Lord of Lower Creation, a "false" "Creator") first arose.

Satan is something entirely different. Satan is an Accuser who has the capacity of transforming himself into an angel of light (something you'll find documented later in this very same Epistle, 2 Cor 11:14).

12-01-2005, 07:32 PM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Helal.jpg

LaDominio
12-02-2005, 05:15 AM
_____ wrote:
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Helal.jpg

Hey that dame got class! Can I get her number maybe?

Saturnino
12-02-2005, 06:03 AM
Absurd. Here we go again, a weird theory that comes from nowhere this morning decided to say that 2,000 years of biblical scholarship is wrong and he is right.

Jehovah is the name of God in the Old Testament, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Bible says dozens of times that God created the world.

Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

Jesus also said dozens of times that He didn't do anything apart from the Father.

Joh 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Joh 14:11 Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake.

So how could He have nothing to do with Him ? psholtz, you haven't even read the Bible ! This is the basics of the basics ! Man, you could use some humility and seat down and read it with an open mind. But you come up with an attitude of someone who knows it all and wants to change 2,000 years of Christianity with two paragraphs.

Prince of Air is the title of Satan.

Check
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:




psholtz wrote:

Saturnino wrote:
I forgot about this verse:

2Co 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost:
2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

The god of this world (lower case "g") is Satan, of ocurse.
The "god of this world" referred to in 2 Cor 4:4 is usually interpreted as the Platonic Demiurge, or, to use Jewish nomenclature, Jehovah (YHVH). It's also the same entity that Jesus designates as being the "Prince of this World", the "Prince" who no longer has any control over Jesus.. Even a cursory reading of Genesis 1 (and cursory knowledge of the Hebrew language) indicates that Jehovah played no part (whatsoever) in the act of Creation. It is from this, as well as other sources (including this Pauline Epistle) that that tradition of equating Jehovah with the Platonic Demiurge (i.e., Lord of Lower Creation, a "false" "Creator") first arose.

Satan is something entirely different. Satan is an Accuser who has the capacity of transforming himself into an angel of light (something you'll find documented later in this very same Epistle, 2 Cor 11:14).

12-02-2005, 08:08 AM
http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d146/clubc/Helal2.jpg

psholtz
12-02-2005, 11:37 AM
Saturnino wrote:
Absurd.
You'd be wise not to discount things you don't understand as being *absurd*... it only highlights your own ignorance, which your post history indicates you've been all too happy to put on display for the entire world to mock at.

My purpose is simply to debate and discuss in an intelligent, informed manner.. If what I say offends your religious sensibilities, perhaps you should learn to hold your tongue until you've matured to the point where it doesn't. You only harm yourself when you go around passing judgment upon things you do not understand (see Matt 7:1 for more info).

Here we go again, a weird theory that comes from nowhere this morning decided to say that 2,000 years of biblical scholarship is wrong and he is right.
It's not a wierd theory.. it's been a core part of the Christian community since the days of Jesus and St. Paul (who disguised it through veiled comments, like I indicated above), and more esp since the Christian community in Alexendria began publishing such thoughts out in the open, w/o any veiled language, starting circa 2nd century AD.

The "god" of the Jews (i.e., Jehovah) is not the God of Creation and he is not the God of the Christians. This is a very, very basic Christian teaching that somehow has gotten lost, even though both Jesus and St. Paul make it clear in what they said and did, as did a number of early Church fathers..

Jehovah is the name of God in the Old Testament, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The Bible says dozens of times that God created the world.
Jehovah is *a* god (one of many) in the Old Testament, but he's not *the* God of Creation. Jehovah has nothing to do in Gen 1, and he only makes his appearance somewhat later (as a *false* god). Even a somewhat superficial knowledge of Hebrew bears witness to this.. Don't rely on your English translations, they are for the most part in error..

Jesus also said dozens of times that He didn't do anything apart from the Father.
That's true.

Just know that Jehovah isn't the Father. The Father is the God of Creation, the God who created Jehovah in the first place..

psholtz, you haven't even read the Bible !
Again, you must learn to hold your tongue until you have tamed your temper. At this point, you're going from making reckless and false conjectures to making outright lies. They are not appreciated. Know that you will be held accountable for such words and thoughts and deeds unto the uttermost farthing.. Such are the Teachings of the Master..

Prince of Air is the title of Satan.
Satan is an Accuser who is capable of transforming himself into an angel of Light. That's something different than the "Prince of the Air"..

Check
Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience
Very interesting quote! Thanks for the reference..

Perhaps this Prince of the Air has something to do w/ "cloud of witnesses" that is spoken of in Hebrews 12:1?

Saturnino
12-02-2005, 01:28 PM
psholtz,

It is you who have to explain yourself better. Man, you come with a bombastic, never heard of, revolutionary affirmation like "Jehovah is not the God of the Christians", contradicting EVERYTHING that the Christians have believed in 2,000 years and expect that people believe it !!!

It is the same as saying: I just found out that the earth is flat. Or "Julius Cesar never existed". You have to work very hard to prove some extraordinary revelation like that.

This is NOT intelligent discussion...you are just throwing in something you read in some weird book. You have to get your arguments together BEFORE you say something so revolutionary, or you are the one who gets discredited in the forum.

Enter any bookstore today and all you find is weird books from people like David Icke or Dan Brown trying to give us a new bombastic revelation without no proof. I'm tired of it.

12-02-2005, 08:05 PM
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