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rushdoony
12-25-2005, 08:46 PM
If you can see your house and car
shouldn't we be able to see
Apollo Landing Sites also?
http://moon.google.com/

Answer Google gives is:
Why can't I see the surface in more detail?

Google Moon only has as much data as NASA was able to give us, so there are limitations (for now) on how close to the surface we can zoom.

See also:
www.moonmovie.com

AISB_Watch
12-25-2005, 11:24 PM
Clavius Moon Base - debunking the moon hoax (http://www.clavius.org/)

Fox TV and the Apollo Moon Hoax (http://www.badastronomy.com/bad/tv/foxapollo.html)

The Moon mirror left by astronauts (http://sunearth.gsfc.nasa.gov/eclipse/SEhelp/ApolloLaser.html)

Lunar Laser Range Finding: The Legacy of Apollo and the Observatorie de la Côte D’Azur (http://www.myspacemuseum.com/laser%20article%202.doc)

Thirty five years after Neil Armstrong landed on the moon, man still visits Tranquility Base regularly. On many nights lasers fired from the Observatoire de la Côte D’Azur (OCA), and the McDonald Observatory in Texas, bounce back from the reflectors left by the lunar explorers. The precisely timed impulses measure the distance between the earth and the moon with incredible precision. ...

nomad
12-26-2005, 07:25 AM
AWESOME post guys ... anybody else have info

to support the landing or to support the fraud ?

rushdoony
12-26-2005, 07:49 AM
On the feasiblity of landing
a man on the moon and the claim
that it has already been achieved.

PDF - takes a minute to load
http://www.geocentric-universe.com/Apollo%20analysis.pdf

rushdoony
12-26-2005, 07:52 AM
Moon Hoax Debate I

http://www.geocentric-universe.com/page81.htm

nomad
12-26-2005, 11:23 AM
We should invite Bart to our site he sounds like

one of us.
--------------------------------------
The Apollo Moon Landings Are Science Fiction

The Space Shuttle, so far, has killed fourteen people, merely trying to attain an orbit about two hundred fifty miles above the Earth. How is it then, that a third of a century ago, with less computing power in the entire rocket than in a present day twenty dollar Wal-Mart watch, NASA claims to have gone 100,000% farther, six different times between 1969 and 1972, landing on another celestial body and then returning, without ever killing anyone? How could they have powered air conditioning in two hundred fifty degree heat for three days with batteries? Why is the "second round" of "returning" to the moon estimated to be no earlier than half a century after the first? (Would there be a fifty-year span between the first and second trips across the Atlantic in an airplane?)

If the moon landings were, as we believe, a government deception, then George Orwell's comment, "whoever controls the past, controls the future" is a scary wakeup call to insist that our government reform to the truthfulness of our founding father "who could not tell a lie." Otherwise, the powers that be will continue their addiction to deception and we all will be worse off for it.

---------------------------------------------

David
12-26-2005, 03:57 PM
But...but...there is proof that America went to the moon. I saw it on the TV special about if America went to the moon or not. At the end the show they interviewed this guy and he proved it by pointing out the mirror that America sent a guy to place on the moon so that lasers could be reflected back. I mean it was on TV so it must be true and it's not like some unmanned craft could put a mirror on there - that's not possible - a person in a stay-puffed marshmellow man suite would have to do it.

Ok enough joking around I want to ask some questions about this moon mirror because I don't really know much about it. How does the mirror work and how do people know where to shine the laser at? Can a laser reflect/shine off the ground without a mirror? When I point a laser pointer out my window I can see where it hits meaning that some of the energy is reflected back into my eyes, with a larger laser is the same true for the moon? I know that radio waves can be bounced off the moon, amateur radio operators do it all the time. Radio waves and lasers are not the same but are somewhat similar.

I've looked over many moon-hoax and moon-fact sites and it's hard for me to sort out the real stuff from the BS, what are some red herrings to watch out for?

Thanks.

rushdoony
12-26-2005, 04:28 PM
http://www.moonmovie.com/moonmovie/default.asp?ID=8

Q: What about laser reflectors on the moon (allegedly left by Apollo) that scientists bounce light beams off of?

A: The Russians have successfully placed such reflectors on the surface of the moon, yet they have never claimed to have put a man on the moon. The reflectors were dropped there by unmanned probes. It should also be noted that the moon's surface will naturally reflect signals; communications were carried out as early as the 1950s by bouncing signals off of the moon.
-------------------------------------------
Frequently Asked Questions:

Q: How could such a secret be kept from the world with so many people involved? (Didn't NASA have tens of thousands of people working on the Apollo project?)

A: This is the same logical question I asked before I did any research. Yet after having done eight years of investigation, I discovered that, in fact, very few people were involved in the actual faking. NASA, indeed, did have tens of thousands of people working constructing the nuts and bolts of the project. One team worked on the spacecraft hatch, another on the astronaut's boot, yet none of them saw an overview of the entire project, only those at the very top of the bureaucratic pyramid. All of those NASA guys at the computer consoles that you saw prior to the launch were receiving the exact same information as their colleagues sitting beside them, which was fed to all of them by a simulation computer program. If you look at the footage ten seconds prior to launch, they are all kicked back watching television, just like the rest of us. Apollo astronauts from later or previous missions were the ones at the real consoles. We know from the newly discovered behind-the-scenes footage that each crew was on the rocket during the launch. They went up in front of witnesses, splashed down in front of witnesses, yet the evidence recently uncovered proves that they never left Earth orbit. Apollo 11 was supposed to be the greatest event in human history, yet there were only three (government employee) witnesses and, for the first time ever, no independent press coverage of such an historical event.

With Cold War tensions running high, those who knew the truth went along with the deception to fool the Soviets that we had technological superiority.

In 1957 Time Magazine had on its cover "The Smartest Man in America" (the latest winner of the most popular TV trivia game show at that time.) It was later uncovered that the contestant received the answers in advance from the show's producers because he was widely loved by the viewers. In fact, one hundred twenty contestants and staff initially swore on the Bible during a grand jury investigation that the television show was not rigged. Most later recanted, and it is now known they all lied. If all these people were willing to lie for a little money, how much more for alleged national security? The fact is, Time Magazine was wrong. The best way to fool the world was to fool the media.

Q: What about all of the people refuting your accusations point-by-point?

A: Given the pride associated with this alleged accomplishment, it is natural that many people seek to refute our claims. It is not difficult to make up a plausible-sounding argument to refute almost any claim. However, we have yet to see any such argument that does not fail under critical examination.

"The likelihood of one individual being right increases in direct proportion to the intensity to which others are trying to prove him wrong."
- - Harry Segall

Q: What about the moon rocks?

A: NASA chief scientist James Garvin recently appeared on C-SPAN (4-17-2005.) A viewer called in for the live, audience response, program. He stated that his father worked for the Defense Department and told him that we never went to the moon, that the technology didn't exist back then, and that Apollo was a Hollywood-type production. The caller asked NASA chief scientist Garvin what proof he had that the Apollo moon missions were real. Garvin said the proof is in the statements made by the astronauts, and also in the moon rocks.

While it is possible that the moon rocks were manufactured (NASA has the best ceramics labs on the planet), in reality these rocks are probably just meteorites that were retrieved on Earth. Von Braun, the director of the program, visited Antarctica a few months before the missions to retrieve these meteorites. (By the way, it is a federal crime for a civilian to be in possession of a moon rock, so how can there truly be independent verification?)

Q: Can't you see the artifacts left from the alleged moon missions through a powerful telescope?

A: No. This is folklore. No Earth-based telescope is powerful enough to see manmade materials on the lunar surface. The newly released photos of the moon taken by the Hubble telescope cannot discern any objects on the moon's surface that are smaller than a football field in length.

Japan, however, sent a probe to the moon several years ago that did have this capability. Unfortunately, as soon as it entered lunar orbit all five of its cameras simultaneously malfunctioned. Further disappointment is in the fact that the most recent European lunar probe cannot see the moon's surface in enough detail to answer this persistent question.

Q: Wouldn't the Russians find out and then tell the world?

A: This is another, very logical, yet superficial question. After thinking about it for some time, I believe that one of the major reasons for faking the moon missions was to fool the Soviets about US strategic and space capability during the height of the Cold War (like a bluff in poker.) In addition, the Soviets did not have the capability to track deep spacecraft until late in 1972, immediately after which, the last three Apollo missions were abruptly cancelled.

Even if the Russians did suspect the landings were not authentic, the act of calling us liars of this magnitude at the height of the Cold War could have instigated a war, and perhaps they thought it better not to chance that.

Q: Why hasn't someone come forward?

A: Who would listen, and who would believe them? This illusion is so pridefully ingrained in everyone’s mind that it isn’t even questioned. Furthermore, would you want to be the one to ruin the international reputation of America? (Plus the likely blackmail, bribes, and death threats . . . to family members as well.) In addition, one astronaut coming forward to clear his own conscious is an inadvertent condemnation of all of the other astronauts as well. It is one thing to ruin your own life and reputation, yet what about others who are not willing to do so? All of them have built fame and wealth on their celebrity of having supposedly walked on the moon.

Q: What about laser reflectors on the moon (allegedly left by Apollo) that scientists bounce light beams off of?

A: The Russians have successfully placed such reflectors on the surface of the moon, yet they have never claimed to have put a man on the moon. The reflectors were dropped there by unmanned probes. It should also be noted that the moon's surface will naturally reflect signals; communications were carried out as early as the 1950s by bouncing signals off of the moon.

Q: How could the scientists of the world be fooled?

A: When scientists fail to require independent duplication of such an outlandish claim after over 30 years have passed, science is degraded to the status of being just another religion. They claim to have gone 240,000 miles in 1969. However, since 1972 no one has gone more than 400 miles from the Earth. This is a case of the scientists of the world not doing their jobs and otherwise being caught asleep at the wheel.

The leading scientists today who say that the Van Allen Radiation Belt is not lethal (who were generally in preschool at the time of the first alleged moon landing) do so by the following deduction: "The Apollo astronauts went through the radiation belt on their way to the moon and survived, so it must not be lethal." They are, of course, assuming that the missions were authentic, when, in fact, they were not. The leading scientists are wrong. Has this ever historically happened?

Q: If the evidence you have is so compelling, what hasn't CNN picked it up?

A: In reality, news media organizations are in the entertainment business. They figure that confronting such an emotional issue is not likely to boost their ratings. Since only a small percentage of those in the U.S. believe the landings were not authentic, most news media organizations don't want to risk offending their viewers.

Q: What about Apollo 13?

A: The fact is, none of the Apollo missions ever left earth orbit. After interest petered out following Apollo 12 (the second trip), an element of "jeopardy" was introduced to draw attention back to the alleged drama of the missions.

This makes Apollo 13 the most deplorable of all the missions. The nation held midnight prayer vigils for the astronaut's safe return, all the while they casually coasted around the earth in a completely sound orbiting vehicle.

Q: If A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon is such Earth-shattering evidence, why are you selling it instead of offering it for free?

A: The film is Earth-shattering evidence, indeed. The fact is that investors put up five hundred thousand dollars to produce the film, and they would like to recoup a little of it. This is simply the concept of exchange; when someone does work to provide you with something of value, you compensate them when you receive benefit from that work.

Thirty bucks for a half a million dollar film is not bad, if you ask me.
(The lie cost every citizen $800--the truth... $30.)

Q: What are the running times for each of the DVD's?

A: A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon is 47 minutes in length. Astronauts Gone Wild is 53 minutes long. Apollo 11 Post-Flight Press Conference is 1hour, 23 minutes long. Apollo 11 Monkey Business is 1 hour, 48 minutes long.



- Bart Sibrel -

David
12-26-2005, 04:42 PM
Thanks for posting the information, funny thing is that I have that moon movie around here someplace on my computer. I wasn't sure what to make of it, is it a good movie or fabricated information?

I went to goverment schools and have trouble thinking on my own without a guiding hand.

I have the 'Astronauts Gone Wild' video too, that one is kind of funny. The ex-nauts say different things when asked about certain basic things - like they are making it up and are not all on the same page.

Wax him!

I'm going with it's hoax.

Is it me or does most everything seem like some kind of scam or hoax?

Indred
12-26-2005, 04:56 PM
The Bible says that one of the events that signifies the Great Whore of Babylon is that some of her deeds reached even to the heavens. I believe that Modern America is that Babylon spoken of. Not through her people but by the actions of her leaders and the results of these actions. If this is true, a real moon landing may be the event that would reach the heavens spoken of in the Bible and it would be an actual event and not a fake.

rushdoony
12-26-2005, 04:57 PM
Nice one David:

"But...but...there is proof that America went to the moon. I saw it on the TV special about if America went to the moon or not".
--------------------
It's not just you that feels
everything is a scam or hoax.
It's because you are intelligent and inquisitive
and have an eagerness for real knowledge
outside of the socialist indoctrination system
that your horizons are expanding.
It's tough sometimes because of the
ridicule and almost physical
fights that break out if you tell the truth
during a discussion
in a bar or group setting.

There is so much evil and deception
in the world and the underlying author is Satan.
That's why I started to read Christian literature,
so I could learn to defend myself
from evil, deception and lying.

nomad
12-26-2005, 07:20 PM
David wrote:
Thanks for posting the information, funny thing is that I have that moon movie around here someplace on my computer. I wasn't sure what to make of it, is it a good movie or fabricated information?

I went to goverment schools and have trouble thinking on my own without a guiding hand.

I have the 'Astronauts Gone Wild' video too, that one is kind of funny. The ex-nauts say different things when asked about certain basic things - like they are making it up and are not all on the same page.

Wax him!

I'm going with it's hoax.

Is it me or does most everything seem like some kind of scam or hoax?

the fact that the Bilderberg meetings have not

made national news proves POSITIVE that the media

is controlled completely since it proves that

can BLACK OUT anything counter to their plans ...

remember this when you watch the news ...

" the news IS the commercial "

Jimbo
12-26-2005, 07:40 PM
The "Propaganda Machine" At Work - :-o :-o :-o

Good point "nomad." The "Propaganda Machine" at work - just thinking out-loud. Another point many still asleep don't realize is that, a lot of shows that are presented as "documentaries," of some sort, are actually part of a "big commercial," or "disinformation" campaign, bought & paid for the same people who take your money & want to "change" (control) your mind about the "reality" they want you to experience... The world we live in is nothing but a "big illusion," created by the "masters of illusion" themselves... Remember, anything we "dream" of, during the "dream," becomes as "real" as "reality itself." That moment to us becomes "our reality." That's why they spend so much effort (time & money) "spinning" the "propaganda"...

Thank God for "Freedom Of Speech"...
8-)

nomad
12-26-2005, 08:25 PM
one example of " the news IS the commercial "

Tamiflu the "only" vaccine on earth to "cure"

the avian flu's "certain" epidemic comes out

of a company where Donald Rumsfeld was recently

CHAIRMAN ... Rumsfeld and the media owners and the

NWO made a killing on this commercial ...

here's a longer clipper of Bart getting punched

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/front/la-buzzkill-video.realvideo

this
12-27-2005, 12:06 AM
It's good to keep an open mind on this topic. Recent evidence tilting towards hoax is the collection of NASA moon photos. CC had a thread on it before. Some of the photos seem to be faked, but more importantly there were too many taken.

The mirror thing is interesting, but try to find out about Russian technology at that time. Apparently they were sending unmanned missions to the moon alongside NASA. Many crashed or failed but some landed, took photos and returned rocks. If the Russians could deploy unmanned missions, perhaps they were indeed the only missions to go to the moon.

Add to that the evidence that Communism is popular with western industrialists and the Cold War co-operation seems more likely.

Shannow
12-27-2005, 01:56 AM
Not seen it mentioned that the observatory that looks at this spot only looks at it every 28 days give or take a few minutes.

If it is truly sending a beam to the reflector, then it's only for a few seconds every 28 days.

What aboout nutation, which creates the seasons down here. Is a couple of miles diameter enough to compensate for this ?

Do you need a mirror on your car to get ticketted for speeding ?

Jimbo
12-29-2005, 10:37 PM
Speeding Radar Guns - :-o :-o :-o

Do you need a mirror on your car go get ticketted for speeding ?

Well, yes, depending how you look at it. However in this case the "car" becomes the mirror. The gun sends a microwave signal at a certain frequency & it bounces off the vehicle. Because the vehicle is moving the reflected signal comes back at a different frequency than the original. Then, because of this difference in frequencies (technically referred to as the Doppler effect) they calculate the speed of the vehicle in question. Now, if there are other vehicles around you going faster than you, but you end up getting the ticket, then they were out to get you w/ "false" evidence. Not uncommon in this day in age...
8-)

Shannow
12-29-2005, 10:51 PM
Jimbo,
doesn't need to be metal, just to bounce the radar back.

You can measure the speed of tennis balls and cricket balls, and they aren't traditionally known as reflectors (except for the fact that we can see them)

rushdoony
12-30-2005, 07:32 AM
If the Liars say there is a Mirror
then does that mean there is
one on the moon?

Look, alls you do is pay a
"scientist" at the observatory
$1200 a month salary
and he'll make sure some
realitic numbers are created
out of whole cloth.
Is that a lot of money for
a scientist to earn? I guess
you're right it's not, so I guess
I'm wrong and therefore it
is IMPOSSIBLE to fake moon
mirror data.

Still impossible at $12,000 per month
to protect a
$100,000,000,000 scam ?

I just changed the date on my computer.
Why do people think that is a very difficult thing to do? It took me
six months to do. Sorry
I made a mistake, it took six seconds
AND WAS A VERY EASY THING TO DO.

Khopesh
12-30-2005, 08:04 AM
I think theres also a laser at Los Alamos that fires at the little mirror on the moon regularly.

I read a piece on the billy meier website the other day which suggests the Americans faked the first moon landing with Armstrong and Aldrin but actually did go later in the 70s.
The initial deception staged aparently to disuade the Russians from sending their manned mission which was imminent in 1969.

Yeah I suppose one day we will find out the truth.

http://www.gaiaguys.net/Meier.Mondv6p70.htm

Jimbo
12-30-2005, 09:46 AM
Speeding Radar Guns - :-o :-o :-o

Do you need a mirror on your car go get ticketted for speeding ?


Shannow wrote:
Jimbo,
doesn't need to be metal, just to bounce the radar back.

You can measure the speed of tennis balls and cricket balls, and they aren't traditionally known as reflectors (except for the fact that we can see them)

Note that I used the word "mirror," as in something that "reflects back" the electro-magnetic radiation that was directed towards it. Any object would reflect it back to different degrees, depending on the composition & angle of the object's surfaces, such as "stealth" aircraft is designed in such a way as to both "absorb & reflect" incoming radar signals, however the reflected signals bounce off at angles different than the incoming "angle of incidence" - the angle of the directed "signal."

So, no one said that this "mirror" has to be a "metal." I didn't even used the word "metal." A rock, a jelly fish, a tennis ball, etc. can reflect back microwave radar signals directed towards them. Even your body reflects back incoming microwave (electro-magnetic) radar signals...

There are also some new technologies, not discussed here, that use a “laser light,” instead of a “microwave signal,” in order to catch the “unlawful speeders” & so that their “microwave” only “radar detectors” can not notify them of a near by “smokey.” However, there are already available newer “radar detectors,” & have existed for quite some time, that will also detect these “laser” based “speed guns.”

Now, if you want to measure the speed at which "visible light" travels, then you do need a "mirror" that will reflect "visible light," of course. But that, has nothing to do w/ a "microwave speed radar gun." We are now talking about a completely different "experiment."
8-)

nomad
12-30-2005, 05:30 PM
Khopesh wrote:
I think theres also a laser at Los Alamos that fires at the little mirror on the moon regularly.

I read a piece on the billy meier website the other day which suggests the Americans faked the first moon landing with Armstrong and Aldrin but actually did go later in the 70s.
The initial deception staged aparently to disuade the Russians from sending their manned mission which was imminent in 1969.

Yeah I suppose one day we will find out the truth.

http://www.gaiaguys.net/Meier.Mondv6p70.htm


think about the fact that the Russians NEVER

went and that the Japanese NEVER went to the moon

... why ?

maybe because they never had a Hollywood sound

stage ?