View Full Version : The Talmud what a Lovely Book!

08-24-2006, 04:10 PM

The Talmud
what a Lovely Book!

Before reading this section, I want to point out very clearly, that it is not my intention to go against a race, or a people, or to push the guilt to a certain group of people. I’m interested in uncovering their believe system, that’s what I’m putting my finger on. This section is going to upset you, as it did upset me in the first, second and third place, too. I did not like to write this section, and I don’t like this theme at all, but it is of tremendous importance to understand what is happening on our planet. If you want to understand why Hitler, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington, Martin Luther and many, many others wanted to hunt down the Jews, you have to know what follows here, because it was the cause of their actions. So please don’t get angry with me presenting this stuff.

All the sources for this section are of Jewish origin.

Coming back to the “protocols:” I can still feel some readers doubt their origin. Let’s have a look at a few phrases out of the Talmud, (translated from a German version), to understand why the barbarian Khazars were interested in suddenly becoming “Talmud believers,” and maybe to understand why the Jews always have been hunted, wherever they’ve been. Is there maybe some reason behind it?

“Just the Jews are humans, the Non-Jews are no humans, but cattle.” (goyim – human cattle) – (Kerithuth 6b page 78, Jebhammoth 61a)

“The Non-Jews have been created to serve the Jews as slaves.” - (Midrasch Talpioth 225)

“The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.” - (Orach Chaiim 57, 6a)

“Sexual intercourse with Non-Jews is like sexual intercourse with animals” – (Kethuboth 3b)

“The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively” - (Zohar II, 4b)

“As you replace lost cows and donkeys, so you shall replace dead Non-Jews.” – (Iore Dea 337,1)

“To box an Israeli on the ear, is like to box on the ear of god.” – (Sanhedrin 58b)

"God (Jahveh) is never angry about the Jews, just about the Non-Jews” – (Talmud IV/8/4a)

“The human (Jew) has to pray every day three times, because Jahveh didn’t make him a goyim, not a female and not an ignorant.” – (Talmud V/2/43b + 44a)

“Everywhere they (the Jews) come, they will be the princes of the lords” – (Sanhedrin 104a)

“I (Jahveh) make you (the Jewry) the ancestor of the peoples, I make you the selected one amongst the peoples, I make you the king over the peoples, I make you the loved one amongst the peoples, I make you the best one amongst the peoples, I make you the trsuted one amongst the peoples” – (Schabbat 105a)

“Towards a Non-Jew the Jew doesn’t cause an adultery… Punishable for the Jew, is just the adultery towards his next, that means the wife of a Jew. The wife of the Non-Jew is excluded” – (Talmud IV/4/52b)

There is no wife for the goyim, they really aren’t their wives” - (Talmud IV/4/81 + 82ab)

“You (the Jews) have made me, Jahveh, the only true lord in the world, so I will make you the only ruler in the world”

“Who wants to be smart shall occupy himself with money matters, because there are no corner pillars in the Thora that are more important, because they are like a sparkling fountain” – (Talmud IV/3/173b)

“Jews always have to try to deceive Non-Jews” – (Zohar I, 168a)

“Carry on trade with Non-Jews, if they have to pay money for it” - (Abhodah Zarah 2a T)

“Non-Jewish property belongs to the Jew who uses it first” - (Babba Bathra 54b)

“If two Jews have deceived a Non-Jew, they have to split the profit” - (Choschen Ham 183,7)

“Every Jew is allowed to use lies and perjury to bring a Non-Jew to ruin” - (Babha Kama 113a)

“The possessions of the goyim are like an ownerless desert, and everybody (every Jew) who seizes it, has acquired it” - (Talmud IV/3/54b)

“The Jew is allowed to exploit the mistake of a Non-Jew and to deceive him” - (Talmud IV/1/113b)

“The Jew is allowed to practice usury on the Non-Jew” - (Talmud IV/2/70b)

“When the Messiah comes, all will be slaves of the Jews” - (Erubin 43b)

Lovely, isn’t it? Do some of you still believe that the “Protocols” are not of Jewish origin?

Can you understand the kings who kicked the Jews from their countries? I don’t talk about the ordinary Jew, like the ordinary Christian or Muslim, but the powerful ones. And these do believe in the nonsense you have just read.

If you want to understand why we have wars, planned wars for many hundreds of years on this planet, and why the Illuminati don’t acre about millions of people of all races being killed in these wars, you have to understand that in the eyes of a Talmud believing Khazar-Jewish banked, NO HUMAN dies in a war between countries, but goyim. Just the Jews are human in the eyes of a Mosaic Jew, who believes in Mosaic Law, (that you just read), and all the other ones are cattle, and have to be treated like cattle. They are not worth to be treated any better than cattle. Cattle have no property, no right to own anything, cattle cannot be married, so as a Jew, you are allowed to deceive the cattle.

You don’t believe this? Well, ask a rabbi. I did, and got the answer: “Of course! We are the chosen people! You are a goy (singular of goyim).”

It doesn’t mean that every Jew is believing in the Talmud, and the Mosaic Law, the same as not every child of Christian parents believes in Christianity. In this book, we are looking at the ones who believe in the lines you just read, and we are interested in what these people are doing because of this belief.

Do you think that what I just wrote and showed you out of the Talmud, just appears in some Nazi-German heads, the “bad guys” of this planet? Then you are far off!

The Talmud, the ultimate authority of Orthodox Judaism, plums the depths of moral and spiritual depravity. Wherever they went, the Mosaic or Talmudic Jews became legendary for their crookedness, and their diabolical ingenuity in taking advantage of those with whom they came in contact. They were both feared and despised. As a direct result of their chicanery, they were expelled from one nation after another.

Jews were evicted from England in 1290 AD (returned 1655); France 1306 (returned around 1682); Hungary 1360-1582; Belgium 1370-1700; Slovakia 1380-1744. They were also thrown out of the Netherlands, Austria, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Bavaria and other nations in Europe in the same time frame.

Jesus said about these particular Jews, that they “were of their father, the devil” (John 8:44). That’s the reason, and really the only reason, why Jesus has been killed by those Jews, the Pharisees!

Martin Luther for example, had this to say:

“I had decided not to write anymore, neither of the Jews nor against the Jews. Because I have learned, however, that those miserable, wicked people do not cease trying to win over to themselves, us, that is the Christians, also, I have permitted this booklet to go forth that I might be found among those who have resisted such poisonous undertaking of the Jews, and have found the Christians to be on their guard against them. I would not have thought that a Christian would permit himself to be fooled by the Jews, to share their exile and misery. But the devil is the god of the world, and where God’s word is not, he had easy sailing, not only among the weak, but also among the strong. God help us. Amen."

And as a distinguished mark, they strengthen their faith and bitter hatred against us amongst themselves by saying; “Keep on. See how God is amongst us and does not forsake his people in exile. We do not work, we enjoy good, lazy days, the cursed goyim (human cattle) must work for us, we get their money, thereby we are their masters, they however, are our servants. Keep on, dear children of Israel, it will be better still! Our Messiah will come if we thus continue and appropriate to ourselves, by usury, the Hemdath (Hebrew: possessions, desire) of the heathen!"

Do not their TALMUD and their Rabbis write that it is no sin to kill if a Jew kills a heathen, but that it is a sin if he kills a brother in Israel! It is not a sin if he does not keep his oath to a heathen. Therefore, to steal and rob (as they do with their usury) from a heathen is divine service. For they hold, that they cannot be too hard on us, nor sin against us, because they are the noble blood and circumcised saints; we, however, are cursed goyim. And they are the masters of the world and we are their servants, yes, their cattle!

Should someone think I’m saying too much – I am not saying too much, but much too little. For I see in writing how they curse us goyim, and wish us all evil in their schools and prayers. They rob us of our money through usury and, wherever they are able, they play us all manner of mean tricks…”

Martin Luther’s last recorded utterance on the subject of the Jews was: “You should know that the Jews blaspheme and violate the name of Our Savior day by day… for that reason, you, Milords and ladies, should not tolerate but expel them. They are our public enemies and incessantly blaspheme our Lord Jesus Christ. They call…l Mary a harlot, and her Holy Son a bastard… If they could kill us all they would gladly do so; in fact, many of them murder Christians, especially those professing to be surgeons and doctors. They know how to deal with medicaments in the manner of the Italians – the Borgias and Medicis – who gave people poison which brought their death in one hour or in a month.”

Should Martin Luther be condemned as being a rabid hater of Jews? Not necessarily! It is abundantly clear froma careful reading of the above statement, that Luther was attacking the basic Talmudic philosophy which motivates many Jews, like the Rothschilds for example.

It will also come as a great surprise to many American readers, to learn that a number of their “glorified” forefathers were much more outspoken on this issue than Adolf Hitler.

Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790) for example:

“We must protect this young nation from any insidious influence… That menace, gentlemen, is the Jews. In whatever country Jews have settled in any great numbers, they have lowered its moral tone, depreciated its commercial integrity, have segregated themselves, and have not been assimilated. They have sneered at, and have tried to undermine the Christian religion, upon which that nation is founded, by objecting to its restrictions; have built up a state within a state, and have, when opposed, tried to strangle that country financially…

They are vampires, and vampires do not live on vampires. They cannot live among themselves. They must subsist on Christians and on other people not of their race.

If you do not exclude them from the United State in the Constitution, in less than 200 years, they will have swarmed in such numbers, that they will dominate and devour the land, and change our form of government. If you do not exclude them, in less than 200 years our descendants will be working in the fields to furnish them substance, while they will be in the counting houses, rubbing their hands. I warn you, gentlemen, if you do not exclude the Jews for all time, your children will curse you in your graves."

He knew what he was talking about, because the American presidents, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Harry Solomon Truman and James Earl Carter were hidden Jews, (hidden Jews are Jews who take on a different name, and sometimes another religion, to cover up their Jewish origin. But they still follow their goals, because if not, they will die a silent death through their rabbis! You don’t believe this? Read: “Die schlimmsten Feinde unserer Volker” (The most dangerous enemies of our peoples) by jean Boyer, Edicion Actualizada, Bogota, Colobia, 1979. It will blow your mind!

And George Washington (1732-1799), the first U.S. president:

“The Jews work more effectively against us than the enemy’s armies. They are a hundred times more dangerous to our liberties and the great cause we are engaged in. It is much to be lamented, that each state, long ago has not hunted them down as pests to society, and the greatest enemies we have to happiness in America” (Maxims of George Washington, by A.A. Appleton and Co. pp. 125, 126)."

Similar convictions are expressed in the writings of such notables as William Shakespeare, Charles Dickens and Mark Twain, among many others.


Some readers may think that I’m one of these Nazi German fellows, who live back in World War II. That is simply not the case. These chapters do not specifically relate to the Jewish people as a whole, (some of my closest friends are Jews). There is a great difference between a Khazar, a Zionist, a Talmudist, the Hebrew Blood Alliance on the one side, and an ordinary Jew in the street. I am concerned about what is written in the Talmud, and about the fact that the Talmud is applied today. And as I will describe later, it is important to understand who ‘trained” these Jews, what had been written in the Talmud, to understand who their “Lord” is: it is Jahveh – El Shaddai, the one who came down from heaven (not alone), with fire and smoke in a flying cloud!

(Extract from the Book: “Secret Societies by Jan van Helsing)

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08-24-2006, 05:52 PM
If taken out of context of course it will appear

outrageous ...


“The Non-Jews have to be avoided, even more than sick pigs.” - (Orach Chaiim 57, 6a)

You must keep in mind that the dumb goyim were

praticing child sacrifice ... so in that context

YES they are worse than sick pigs.

10-11-2006, 11:26 PM
that particular sentence doese not say goyim it says non jews. becouse it says goyim in other places doese that mean all non jews are goyim or doese it mean all non jews? might take you like 5-6 hours to read but why not read the protocols of the learned elders of zion yourself 666 and maybe youll see what his point is.And dont be like so many others and say to your self if i dont read it i can still call it a lie.Even tells you how they got there hands on it and amazingly enough this guy didnt get killed for having and translating it.you can find it at www.rense.com scroll down to about the daily news its on the left side. You can find the plans of the illuminati there too.

10-12-2006, 12:46 AM
Do you hate the Jews because you are God Fearing Christians or Neo-Nazi Thugs?

Just asking?

10-12-2006, 10:26 AM
The word jew first appeared in the bible about 200 years ago. the biblical term for the people you think, are hebrews or isralites.

the star of david is a satanic symbol adopted by those that call them selves jews.

in the gospels and revelation Jesus calls them sons of satan and imposters.

so we don't have to be nazis to hate judaism be cause judaism is non biblical and they are out to get us.

these jews where taught by the pharasees whom jesus many times condemed for their teachings which where contrary to Gods teaching. they favored there own teachings above the bible Jesus called it the book of the elders we know it as the talmud.

the sickness of the talmudic pharisaic philosphy is that it tries to make some one holier with a method devised by them, not to mention its racist genocideic statements.


the old scriptures stated that if a man touched a female who was in menstration it would make him unclean.

so the pharisees went one step further and and issued an ordinance for a man never to be touched by a women and if this happened he would have sinned greatly

so in effect what these pharisees did was makegreater rules and sins that where not in there theology before, plus they stated that the only way was there way, putting Gods way in second place.

these jews mostly of non hebrew dna are in fact decendants of central asian people called the kazars which where converted to judaism by the pharisees living in bagdad (the old babalon)they use the bablon talmud and thats why these people think like they think

all in all i think we should pity them but not at the cost of exposing ourselves to there vilness.

as a Christian we must not hate them as difficult as this can be and must understand that within them lies what the bible calls "the remanent of israel" who will become the Lords people once again and be a blessing to all humanity.

you have to understand something else that these original hebrews where used by God to wipe the land of demonic human servers but unfourtunantly the succumbed and became demon servers them selves.

but God is merciuful and patient and those among them of the true blood will come back to God


10-12-2006, 11:28 AM
I forgot to mention the zionist which are even worse these people are mans worst enemy.

these zionist are humanist/atheist anti religion of any sort they are the secular army of satan.

they have duped the so called christian right into helping them do what God is to do.

there is no text in the Bible where the Christian beliver is to help re establish Israel in fact there is no scripture that gives Chritians authority to hasten the end by helping Jesrusalem.

The only way Christians can help speed up the end is by preaching the gospel to all the world.

so beware of the so called jews, zionist their foot soldriers are drones duped by there satanic leaders.

i am in way proposing any physical threat towards them because it will not work but they cannot push our wills where we don't want, we can spread that there message is evil, we can tell them face on there plans are doomed we can tell them to repent

don't be afarid because their goal will not prosper
there leader has been condemed since the beggining of time and he knows it, his drones are human and not totaly reliable.

tou see all these people who call God the tyrant are serving a rebel whose only goal is to be a tyrant who thinks little of humanity.

If God where a tyrant non of us would ever had been born.

He would have destroyed everything and would have made it new unto his liking so why all the hassell?

because he is giving all the oportunity to decide before he walks in and does justice to all.

would an tyrant do that?


10-27-2006, 06:01 AM
...Quite a curious collection of "quotes" from Talmud. Decided to check it out. It turned out to be a complete fabrication - these statements do not appear in Talmud.

The site
proves that these and many other similar "quotes" are simply fabrications.

Talmud is online and easy to check:


10-27-2006, 03:37 PM
Thanks for the links on the Talmud. I'll definately check it out and ask some of my Jewish friends to look up the quotes themselves and let me know what they say within context.

Zionism is definately evil. Judaism isn't any more evil, in and of itself, than most other religions, and if forced to choose one of the main three Judaic religions I'd choose Judaism over Christianity or Islam any day of the week.

10-27-2006, 04:19 PM
Abraham was not Jewish nor was Moses. The word Jew is slang for "of the tribe of Judah". This is from my Jewish friends and is correct.

10-27-2006, 04:45 PM

10-27-2006, 05:36 PM
Abraham was the progenitor of all the tribes and Moses was of the tribe of Levi. This is 100% correct.

10-27-2006, 06:33 PM
And I said you were wrong where exactly?

10-27-2006, 07:57 PM

10-27-2006, 09:17 PM
: O

10-27-2006, 09:18 PM
Shadow_ wrote:
Abraham was not Jewish nor was Moses. The word Jew is slang for "of the tribe of Judah". This is from my Jewish friends and is correct.

I find this hard to believe. Unless of course they let you hang around as the designated wedgie kid.

10-27-2006, 10:07 PM
I find you hard to believe period. Have you ever had a thought? Notice I did not burden you by saying intelligent.

11-09-2006, 01:56 PM
http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt01.html Read this if you think the Talmud is a darling little book and the 'Jewish religion'is just like everyone else's religion. The Talmud is Jewish religion (not the old testament) and it is completely opposite to the basis of all the other religions. Zionists use anti-jew sentiments to control their own people. Most Jews that I know have nothing to do with the ideas in the Talmud.

I would not burn the Talmud I would hold it up to the light for discussion and endless debate. A debate that no Rabbi would dare enter. They don't do debates anyway they scream anti-semitism and call names. It should be taught in every school with all other religions. I'm not anti-semetic, I like Arabs. Most Jews are Khazars not semites.

11-11-2006, 04:28 PM
One should be careful not to miss context when reading The Talmud. An example is described here:


By the way, round 5 started with 6 new questions:

Sannikov Land, ????
Where is Kolchak island?
The Talmud, Baba Mezi'a
Als aew liv jexliv?
New Siberian Islands, Cold War
Dogger Bank, North Sea

Join at any time,

11-15-2006, 04:26 AM
.k Dont any other posters here tell me your not anti semitic after this thread!.
Hey thumper your cc posts are like borat looking for the bar mitzvah celebrations at a nazi skinhead rally!. :-? :roll:

11-16-2006, 03:32 PM
Almost as a rule, every anti-Semite has at least one Jewish friend (to practice, I suppose)... So Borat may find some success :lol:

Besides, the world is not black and white, and this forum (and even this thread) is not an exception.


11-17-2006, 12:03 PM
Almost as a rule, every anti-Semite has at least one Jewish friend (to practice, I suppose)... So Borat may find some success :lol:
:-? How is it you know all this and which sector of western society are you speaking of?.
You see i dont exist in a strata of society where i come into contact with yids or can say i have ever known any because i have nothing to offer them!.
The intelligence commmunity i suppose is where most of you current crop of rookie spooks seem to be blow ins to cc from yeh in that case i suppose what you are saying must be correct "Keep your friends tight and your enemies closer" Right!.

Out of the Box
08-05-2008, 07:32 AM
Talmud is online and easy to check:
The Talmud (http://www.sacred-texts.com/jud/talmud.htm)

From that website :
Rodkinsons' ten-book edition, the only extensive one currently in the public domain, contains complete translations of the 'Festivals' and 'Jurisprudence' sections of the Talmud. Rodkinson only finished about a third of the Talmud. All ten volumes were prepared at Sacred-texts and are available here in their entirety.

It's almost impossible to find an unabrigded English translation of the Talmud and whenever you find one Jews usually label it as a forgery.

Nevertheless, it is hard to deny that Judaism has traditionally been very anti-gentile. Even if all those Talmud quotes are false, there is still enough Jewish writing available (including the Torah) that prove a powerful anti-gentile bias among Jews.

The Old Medic
02-06-2009, 11:13 AM
The "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" is a totally made up book, written by a Nazi lover. There is absolutely no truth in that entire book. Most of its "quotations" are made up, and the rest are twisted and taken totally out of context.

If you really want to find out what the Talmud says, it is widely available in English. Get a copy and read it.

Don't go by anyone elses version of what it says, or their interpretation of it, read the Talmud yourself.

You will be amazed. It is mostly a scholarly discourse on what points of the old Testament mean, and on how a Jew is required to live their life. It contains arguements about what the meaning of "Keeping Kosher" is, what is or is not allowed to be done on the Sabbath, and things like that.

A lot of it is very, very boring discussion of what is or is not allowed in their dietary rules, what clothing a person must wear, how many steps are allowed on the Sabbath, whether or not flicking on a light switch is considered to be work, and so on.

To take someone that wants to see thwe Jews exterminated from this earth as your authority on the Talmud would be like taking Adolf Hitler as your authority on the United States Constitution.

The Pious One
10-19-2009, 04:15 AM
some of the quotes suggested come from texts that do not even exist!

10-19-2009, 05:11 AM
some of the quotes suggested come from texts that do not even exist!

Of course not, these are old quotes put out by the KKK years ago. They're bullshit or wildly distorted. A demonstration that many conspiracy nuts are racist morons.

Out of the Box
10-19-2009, 08:41 AM
some of the quotes suggested come from texts that do not even exist!

Could you be specific? Which ones are made up according to you?

Of course not, these are old quotes put out by the KKK years ago. They're bullshit or wildly distorted.

Why would the KKK come up with fake quotes when there's enough real anti-gentile rubbish in the Talmud already? Some time ago I verified a handful of anti-gentile Talmud quotes at a Jewish source and those happened to be genuine.

A demonstration that many conspiracy nuts are racist morons.

I doubt morons are more common among racists than among anti-racists or among so-called "conspiracy theorists" than among so-called "sceptics". Idiocy tends to be spread fairly equally.

Further, I've seen deliberate misquotes of Hitler by anti-Nazi sources and deliberate distortions by anti-"conspiracy theorists". Misquotes and distortions are definitely not specific for racists and "conspiracy theorists". In fact, in my experience they are FAR MORE COMMON among anti-racists and anti-"conspiracy theorists".

The Pious One
10-19-2009, 03:19 PM
one of the quotes not in this thread but in another state that it is perimitable to marry a 3 year old girl.... i have seen this passage in the real talmud and in hebrew it says "if a 3 year old were to be raped would she remain a virgin?" this could have been purposly mis translated from hebrew to greek than from greek to english as we have seen before with isiah saying a virgin but in hebrew it says a young woman..

and also you say goyim means cattle?.... hardly it actually means nation and was used to described the jewish people

Out of the Box
10-19-2009, 03:23 PM
one of the quotes not in this thread but in another state that it is perimitable to marry a 3 year old girl.... i have seen this passage in the real talmud and in hebrew it says "if a 3 year old were to be raped would she remain a virgin?" this could have been purposly mis translated from hebrew to greek than from greek to english as we have seen before with isiah saying a virgin but in hebrew it says a young woman..

That's one example. What about the others?

The mis-translation of the Latin word "Virgo" and it's Greek or Hebrew equivalents into "virgin" instead of "maiden" or "girl" is indeed a common mistake. I'm pretty sure it's the same mistake Catholics made when they called Jesus' mother a virgin...

The Pious One
10-19-2009, 03:28 PM
The one saying gentiles are not human is a misinterpretation as the real talmud states gentiles are not adam.... adam reffers to jews and not gentiles but can be thought to be talking about the human race.

Please read the full text

"One who uses the official anointing oil [that has been consecrated] to smear on an animal or vessels is innocent of violating the holiness of the oil, to smear on gentiles or corpses is innocent. Certainly an animal and vessels as it say (Exodus 30:32) "It shall not be smeared on flesh of man (Adam)…" and an animal and vessels are not man. One who smears on corpses is also innocent since it is dead it is called a corpse and not a man. However, why is one who smears on gentiles innocent? They are men! No, as it says (Ezekiel 34:31) "Now, you [Israel] are My sheep , the sheep of My pasture, you are Man (Adam)…" You [Israel, the subject of the verse] are called Man (Adam) and gentiles are not called Man (Adam). "

"We see from Gittin that the Talmud considers the phrase Bnei Adam (sons of man) to refer also to gentiles. We see from Avodah Zarah that the Talmud considers the term HaAdam (the man) to refer also to gentiles. Clearly, gentiles are considered human. Why then does the Talmud in Bava Metzia understand that gentiles are not considered Adam (man)?

The explanation is that these are different terms and only a superficial reading would render the term Adam in Bava Metzia as man. Gentiles are absolutely considered human as biology clearly dictates; there are no physiological differences between Jews and gentiles. All people are ultimately descended from the same ancestors, Noah and Adam.

However, the Jews, as a unified nation, are one organic entity. We are obligated to treat each other as close family members and are responsible for each other's actions.

When the Talmud sees the Hebrew word Adam it sees an allusion to Adam of Genesis 1-5 who was at one time the only person. The Talmud understands this as referring to the Jewish people who are an organic unit like one person. Gentiles do not have this organic national bond with each other and are therefore excluded from this concept.

Other terms referring to people, Bnei Adam (sons of Adam) or HaAdam (the man), are understood to refer to the species homo sapien of which gentiles are obviously members just as Jews are.

Thus, with regard to ritual impurity and holy oil, which are uniquely Jewish concepts, the Talmud sees an exclusion to all those who are not part of the organic Jewish nation. With regard to practical matters such as the purchase of land or individual matters such as spiritual status, gentiles are included. An understanding of all of the relevant passages in the Talmud shows that Gentiles are considered human but not Jewish and the accusations against the Talmud are false.

See also Tosafot Yevamot 61a s.v. Ve'Ein; Ra'avan #317; R. Israel Lifshitz, Tiferet Yisrael (Boaz), Avot 3:14; R. Tzvi Hirsch Chajes, Hagahot Maharatz Chajes, Yevamot 61a.

Out of the Box
10-19-2009, 04:04 PM
What about all those quotes telling how crimes by gentiles towards Jews are major offenses whereas crimes by Jews against gentiles can often be ignored or just a very minor sentence?

The Pious One
10-19-2009, 11:26 PM
according to Choshen Mishpat 348:2

Anyone who steals even a minor amount violates the prohibition of [Leviticus 19:11] "You shall not steal" and is required to repay [the amount stolen] whether one steals from a Jew or a gentile.
meaning ther are no different statuses for being either jew or gentile

As Maimonides in , Mishneh Torah, Hilchot Gezeilah 1:2 states
And it is biblically forbidden to steal even a minor amount; even a gentile - it is forbidden to steal from him or to cheat him. And if you stole from him or cheated him you must return the stolen money or object.

professing equality between jew and gentile

Out of the Box
10-20-2009, 11:02 AM
Hmmm.... Please tell me your opinion on the following article. Although written by a religious Jew, it confirms the antisemitic claims that gentiles are treated differently for the same crimes and that Jews consider themselves as superior to gentiles.

Stealing, Punishment and the Jewish Way
By Avi Lazerson

It is interesting to compare the Jewish method of dealing with thieves to the non-Jewish method. It is interesting because it sheds light not only on the differences between the two systems of law and order, but also on the understanding of what is a Jew.

Let us give an example: If a thief were to steal a man's money, say five thousand dollars and then spend it before he was caught, what would be the outcome? Well, we could reasonably assume that in today's criminal court system, the man would be sent to prison for a few years.

But the Jewish view, based on the teachings of the Torah, is very different. Besides the fact that the Torah ignores the concept of a prison system for "criminals", the Torah has in its place a system of bonded service. If you have read the Torah, you may be familiar with the concept of a Hebrew bonded servant. The Torah stipulates that the Jewish thief must repay the money or object that he stole. If he has money or properties, then the money or properties are used for restitution to pay back the amount that was stolen. This restitution would thereby end the court's dealing with the thief.

If the thief does not have any money, as in our case, he spent the money and he has no property of his own to make restitution. He is still obligated to pay back the victim his loss. He will be sold into "slavery", meaning that he must work until he earns enough money to make proper restitution. His master is not his master forever, but only until he earns the money to pay his debt, then he goes free, unless, of course the sabbatical year comes first, in which case his debt is cancelled and he goes free.

Now as we examine the concept in the secular court system, we see a striking contradiction. In the secular system of justice, the man committed a "crime" and therefore he must be punished. If he still has the victim's money or property, then it is returned. But this is still a side point. Secular justice is concerned for the welfare of society and therefore, the perpetrator of a crime must be punished for two reasons: One reason is to teach him a lesson, that stealing, etc, is a crime and that he will learn the hard way not to repeat his folly. The second reason is to teach others that if they think about stealing, they should be aware that the punishment if and when they are caught would far out weight the benefit that they may derive from illegal actions.

Yet if, as in our case, the money is gone, then the victim must suffer the loss. The prison sentence is not related to restitution of the stolen property or money. Prison is to punish to protect society and teach other would-be criminals that "crime does not pay."

If we were to further elaborate on this, we might well ask, well, is not the Torah concerned with the society's welfare? What is there to prevent a thief who is caught (and either pays back his debt with his own funds or works in a forced work environment until he pays it back) that will convince him not to steal again?

Perhaps we must look a bit deeper at the Torah's understanding. Perhaps the most important difference in the Torah law itself is a shocking difference. According to the Torah a Jew who steals must pay it back, as we described above. However, what we did not mention, is that a gentile who steals (whether from a gentile or a Jew) is judged by the death penalty. Now that is pretty heavy!

Perhaps in understanding this apparent inequality in the Torah's viewpoint, will explain something even deeper in our present understanding of the human being.

Number one, the Jew who steals, not only is under an obligation to provide restitution, but he has committed a sin! Granted, a gentile, who steals also commits a sin, so why is the punishment different?

To answer this we must revert to the mystical teachings of the cabalists and Chassidic masters. They teach us that there is a fundamental difference in the soul of a Jew as compared to the soul of a gentile just as there is a fundamental difference in the purpose of a Jew in this world compared to the purpose of a gentile.

The essential purpose of a Jew is to bring the revelation of G-dliness into the world through his performance of the holy mitzvot. What separates the Jew from the gentile is the quality of his soul in terms of being a source of G-dly radiation. According to our mystical masters, the soul which each person possesses has a screen surrounding it to prevent the inherent G-dliness from being revealed which would cause the person to no longer have free choice. As long as the soul's G-dly radiance is reduced by a covering, then the person can choose between good and evil.

The Jew, being the chosen people of G-d, the people selected for analyzing and understanding the intricate laws of the Torah were given this special soul which allows him to understand much deeper the laws of the Torah. A gentile whose task in this world is to work and develop the lands was not given such a sensitive soul.

When a Jew sins, his soul which longs only for G-d and his mitzvot, gives the man great pain. This is a punishment for his sin, (in addition to the above mentioned restitution). When a gentile sins, he has voided his purpose in being and therefore liable to the death penalty.

But perhaps this was true when we Jews lived in our land and merited to having the Holy Temple. Perhaps in those times our souls were purer. Unfortunately, we find thievery amongst all types of Jews, and little remorse, but rather justification.

May we merit the rebuilding of the Holy Temple and the purification of our Holy Souls so that we may once again serve G-d with the holiness that we were intended to. Further, I'd also like to refer to the following text :

With regards to robbery and theft from a Gentile, the Tanna'im disagreed, and subsequently so did the Rishonim, whether the prohibition is from the Torah or only Rabbinic.

It is explained in the Jerusalem Talmud, chapter 4 of Bava Kama, halacha 3: "It happened that the [Roman] kingdom sent two officials to learn Torah from Rabban Gamliel. They learned from him Scripture, Mishnah, Talmud, Halacha, and Aggadah. In the end they said: your entire Torah is fine and praiseworthy, except for these two matters which you say -- a Jewish woman should not be a midwife for a Gentile woman, but a Gentile woman can be a mid-wife for a Jewish woman, and a Jewish woman cannot breastfeed the son of a Gentile woman, but a Gentile woman can breastfeed [the child of] a Jewish woman with her permission; robbery of a Jew is forbidden, but robbery of a Gentile is permitted. At that moment Rabban Gamliel issued an edict that what is stolen from a Gentile is forbidden because of the desecration of G-d's name." According to the Jerusalem Talmud, that which is stolen from a Gentile is forbidden because of Rabban Gamliel's edict and it is only a Rabbinic prohibition. Likewise it is written in Sifri on the portion of V'zot HaBracha, section 344, except that the edict of Rabban Gamliel is not mentioned there.

This is also what is written in the Tosephta, Avodah Zarah chapter 8, halacha 5 (in the Zuckermandel edition; in the Vilna edition it is chapter 9, halacha 4): "...Regarding theft -- a thief, a robber, one who takes a [captive] beautiful woman, and the like -- these are things it is forbidden for a Gentile [to perpetrate] against a Gentile, or [against] a Jew, but it is permissible for a Jew [to perpetrate] against a Gentile."

Thus Rashi wrote on the aforementioned beraitha which appears in Sanhedrin 57a, s.v. yisrael b'goy mutar: "For 'You shall not exploit your neighbor' is written, and it is not written 'a Gentile,' but there is a Rabbinic prohibition, according to the one who says that robbery of a Gentile is forbidden because of desecration of G-d's name in the last chapter 'HaGozel' [chapter 10 of Bava Batra]." Thus it also appears in Bava Metzia 111b: "And since the first Tanna learned the law from the phrase 'his brother,' what does he do with the phrase 'his neighbor'? That phrase comes to teach something in his view also, as stated in the beraitha: 'his neighbor' -- and not a Gentile. But isn't it appropriate to learn that a Gentile is excluded from the phrase 'his brother'? One [phrase] comes to permit exploiting him [a Gentile] and the other comes to permit robbing him, as he holds that robbery of a Gentile is permitted."16 And so it is determined in the commentary attributed to the Ran on Tractate Sanhedrin 57a. Thus, too, ruled the Rama in Even HaEzer, paragraph 28, section 1, and also the Maharshal in Yam shel Shlomo on Bava Kama, paragraph 20.17 .....

Source : Jews Are Called -- Man;The Distinction between Jews and Gentiles in Torah -- by Rabbi David Bar Chaim (http://www.daatemet.org.il/articles/article.cfm?article_id=119&lang=en)

Out of the Box
11-03-2009, 10:19 AM
Hello? Anyone still reading this thread? :confused: