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Knowledge
12-23-2004, 09:47 AM
http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_outfest.html

marypopinz
12-23-2004, 10:11 AM
I guess the romans are starting to feed the Christians to the lions.
XXX

Born_To_Die
12-23-2004, 10:51 AM
marypopinz wrote:
I guess the romans are starting to feed the Christians to the lions.
XXX


Yup they are trying to send the Christians

back into the catacombs ...

I will say more Merry Christmas's this

year before it becomes illegal.

:-o

Born_To_Die
12-23-2004, 10:53 AM
Hey maybe they will put the Jews in jail

for the "hate" literature in their Old Testament

against homosexuals.

freeman
12-23-2004, 11:57 AM
At the risk of being the lone dissenting voice, I have to question the tactics of so-called "Christian activists" who participate in demonstrations like this.
What is really being accomplished here, other than strengthening the gay rights movement by making Christians appear intolerant, insensitive and homophobic?
Once again, I sniff the faint but noxious odor of the Hegelian dialectic at work again to undermine traditional values by creating confrontation, i. e., synthesis and antithesis.
What makes me think that if you dig deeply enough into the finances of organizations like the "Pink Angels", you will find the same global elitists (Rockefellers, Ford Foundation, etc.) bankrolling their agenda, for the reason I just gave (Hegelian dialectic), just as they also finance the gay rights movement.
I have yet to discern the passage of scripture where Jesus said it was okay to go around gay-bashing or engaging in negative, nonproductive confrontations with the forces of secular humanism. Everytime the Pharisees tried to trap him into such conflicts, he always slyly evaded their connivances (e.g., refusing to stone the adulterous woman, John 8; "Render unto Ceasar" in response to paying taxes; etc.).
I think we should be careful not to cross the line between witnessing our faith and exposing the truth as opposed to lowering ourselves to the same contentious, hatemongering tactics as the forces of Satan.
Just my $.02.

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 12:59 PM
Wait right there sir.

I think you may be a bit more effected and taken in by the double-speak of these parties than you KNOW.

You say:

"I have to question the tactics of so-called "Christian activists" who participate in demonstrations like this.

For the record, I am a Christian for 17 years. The negative thing those Christians "appear" to be, to you, may be entirely different from who we ARE. This is especially so if this perception is a bad one labeling the hearts and minds of Christian men, and making broad negative presumptions & assumptions about their characters.

"HomoPHOBIC" is a word used quite FREQUENTLY by the gays and gay supporters and their activists to set ANYONE questioning them and their activities at a screeching HALT. Part of the process is done so those being called such things may be sitting there STUCK, as it were, QUESTIONING THEMSELVES. The mere suggestion that one can be "phobic" about gays and homosexulaity is used as a tactic to 1.LABEL those opposing it 2.Make them question themselves and their own MOTIVES. (*The reality is there is NOTHING "PHOBIC" about OPPOSING or disagreeing with a VIEW or BELIEF. It is simply not-agreeing).

Other words used by these folks INCLUDE: "intolerant" "insensitive" all the words you used above. YET it is in fact THEY who are EXTREMELY INTOLERANT of Christians. They CONSTANTLY promote THEIR "hate" ideology of Christians in the media and in tv shows AND the news outlets as well..I am surprised from the few comments I've seen of yours here that you would make such an error ..about Christians and about the gays and the agenda surrounding them.

The MOMENT we start questioning OURSELVES, rather than firmly dealing with such people and issues with the truth in love, is the moment we entertain what they say. I mean this in this sense. We should surely guard our hearts to be kind and loving to people and be forgiving and not harbor hate, (real hate not the "Hate crimes" "hate" the gays use, which is just from Satan's dictionary and is not "hate" at ALL), but SHARING the TRUTH with those who DO NOT WANT TO HEAR, like the militant GAYS, Ted Kennedy's crowd etc.etc.

"hate" is another word they lob about that is quite misused. They also use words like "choice" and "freedom", "diversity" and "judgemental" in wrong and inappropriate contexts, usually to STOP a Christian from speaking GOD'S WORD. You want to do a quick word juxtaposition? How about this: GODS WORD
GOD SWORD. " the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God ..." Ephesians 6:17

You best be fair to the Christians. WE are the ones LIKELY to be the MAIN ones taking the holy brunt of all this fall out. Why? Because it is at the very CORE of our lives to serve God and others with the TRUTH in love. Part of this Truth is simply, the Word of God. If you are not on the side of the Christians, and maybe the only other group I can think of, the very Orthodox Jews, as both adhere to the Holy Bible, (the real one), you may be on perilous ground in terms of whose side you're (really) on.

Stakes like this require personal spiritual decisions. That's my humble opinion. I don't feel many who are not truly seeking the true God, of Abraham, Issac and Jacob, are going to get the "full monty" when it comes to insights and perspectives about these things. ONE reason is that the Lord Jesus has called us out of this world to be set apart. WE receive SEVERE chastening by men for this. We are labeled, daily, "fundamentalists"seperatists""intolerant" on and on. Well we AREN'T. We can simply DISTINGUISH between RIGHT AND WRONG, and this carries over into how folks are to be treated or not, etc.

Especially if you are considered a leader here, I ask you to deeply consider the gravity and influence of your role.

Your comment at the end of your quote I also find a concern and troublesome to me. You must be prepared to stick by the mindsets of those who you agree with, and this may mean a personal quest in faith yourself.

To misjudge men for doing a thing few may have the COURAGE to DO, in such times, causes me to wonder about the perspective of this group and some of the mindsets here.

Sad to see some erroneous stereotypes and prejudices against we Christians run more deeply than I would've thought in a place like this..

marypopinz
12-23-2004, 01:51 PM
Freeman, I have to share your sentiment.

I think this is the point what awake was trying to get at. We have to be aware and acknowledge the games they play and not particiapte, finding other ways to achieve direction.

Step by step. If my child wants to argue the point, he/she will if I dance the dance and argue back. To the outside, what is the picture?

Step outside the circle. Just like Bush did his little promo for Canadians and the Star Wars scam, the media loves lie for the government and spin the news against "the intolerant homophobic Christian" as they have been told to believe and they now are telling lamestream to believe.

Even if these christians are driven for all the right reasons, they are playing their, (the government) games. It's all in the advertising and we should not play so readily into the media's hands...n'est-ce pas?

Lovely lynn, i appreciate that there is a message to be said by these good people and perhaps it is a message that desperately needs to be heard and there must be another way.

When the local youth club has a homosexual agenda... there are problems going unnoticed in the community. Yes they need waking up and why not meet and debate them on their own turf. Seriously. Disclude the media.

My niece said to her friend Z, he had not road-tested enough females to decide he was gay. I don't know what the answer is and i suggest it's going to be a grapevine that keeps peace alive. Playing into their hands is not the answer.

mary XXX

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 03:12 PM
mary, you say

"Lovely lynn, i appreciate that there is a message to be said by these good people and perhaps it is a message that desperately needs to be heard and there must be another way.
When the local youth club has a homosexual agenda... there are problems going unnoticed in the community. Yes they need waking up and why not meet and debate them on their own turf. Seriously. Disclude the media.
My niece said to her friend Z, he had not road-tested enough females to decide he was gay. I don't know what the answer is and i suggest it's going to be a grapevine that keeps peace alive. Playing into their hands is not the answer.
mary XXX"


mary, not quite sure where you're coming from in regard to my answer hon. You're adding your agreement with freeman, ok. But if it does not concur with what I wrote well, then I guess you're both in a different place than me.

mary you say:

I don't know what the answer is

Well, I do..Perhaps that is the distinguishing difference. And I don't mean it to sound superior in any way, as this Truth is free for all, and NOT relative. :-) And I think MOST of the people here, including you and freeman, have a very GOOD grasp of the truth and realities of these darks powers and their agendas. I believe you see the difference and are surely good people.

I am not a Canadian. Maybe you're being there has another effect. I do know this. Any lack of cohesiveness in those looking to come up against these dark forces and individuals is a thing they will use to their advantage and against you. This may not be a thing you see now. It may or may not become a gradual awareness.

mary the phrase "new world order" is taken DIRECTLY from the Bible referring to these times. One does not have to be a prognasticator nor a prophet, if there are any left today, to know right from wrong. And I'm afraid some of you here are, sadly, victims of the very thing you cry out against.

I am sure we are all hurt by them somehow, through their unwholesome influence on man and society. I won't say we are not all scathed in some way.

mary, my point with freeman was not to offend him or question him as a person or even really his moral postions.

My point was, and remains, he is in error to be talking down Christians in some way. And if he thinks he has, or anyone here has, true distinctive strength or power facing these people and things, he is at loss if in this process he seeks to question, mock or silence the few who seek to be a voice of Truth in love.

Because there IS a right and wrong mary, you KNOW this. Because these people ARE morally WRONG.
And I am not phased in MY behavior as a Christian EITHER WAY, because of the ups and downs and pecidillos of them.

My point is, you are very much in danger of thinking JUST as "they" would have you, if you seek to silence or make IN ANY WAY
"politically correct" Christians or anyone ELSE speaking for God's Will, God's ways and His perspective.

Ask your-SELF about the words you use. DO you use words about Christians that are exactly taken from "their" demonic dictionary? freeman was..
And I don't truly think it was his intent..

I could care LESS about dialectics and how I am "supposed" to act. This is LIFE not some script. Save that for the Conspiracy Club FILM:)

You can stick with freeman mary. I stick with Jesus, who is God :)If you're not there it is a wee bit different here mary.

You see WE, the Christians, are most sincerely the goads being kicked against in all this. No matter what it looks like, that's what it all boils down to.

Acts 26:14

I love you all with Christ's love. I know the best of you are well-meaning and good hearts.
I'm not better just saved, though yes it does make things infinitely better:.

But it is almost an impossible feat to fully and comprehensively conquer the powers of darkness and understand what they are, how, who and all this (i.e. Satan, Satanic powers and principalities), without being deeply accquianted with the Truth and Life.

Who should we be closer to knowing if we are truly enemies of darkness, but the light?:)

Christ dwells in every true believer.

Seek to silence or question their motives and you perch perilously in a very different camp, ironically.

And there's the fatal flaw for "good" men.

Merry Christmas to you both and all

Hope you understand.

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 04:02 PM
One more thing on this gay stuff..and Christians..

I could have not posted this for fear of what the "impression" of me would be here..

I don't mind..

I am going to please got and not fear man..

God's Word says the fear of man is sin and brings a snare..

So heres what I was going to post here earlier on this topic..here..

I think you are insightful enough to NOT categorize me or my words if they resonate within a tainted morsel of your mind's eye in how you view the Christians.
_________________________________________________
You know last night on CBS news "gay''marriage was discussed and I saw THE most DISGUSTING thing in that clip.

At the end of the clip CBS showed a man hugging the other man and THEIR CAMERA closed up on the man's HANDS around the toher man's WAIST and then it closed UP on the one man's hands clasping in a COMPLETE embrace on major network tv news.

Now WHY? are we NOT supposed to hate them? I forget..THAT is the challenge..loving the sinner hating their SIN..I tell you it is your challenge TOO not to hate these folks though we HATE what they DO and dont do and stand for..


Yes these are some of your MOST huge weapons against these folks and ALL that that entails:
The TRUTH spoken in LOVE. DO that and you will have much more than a chink in their armour.

marypopinz
12-23-2004, 09:06 PM
Lynn, please re-read my post... I don't think we are talking about the same issue... playing into the media's hands.

And please stop with that "hate" word and all the righteous judgement calls. I don't appreciate constantly hearing about people hating other people, just my two cents. The moslem hates the christian, the christian hates the gay, the government hates the people, the kids hate their parents, the parents hate each other and on and on it goes. Where it will stop, nobody knows.

Jesus and Mohammed are left and right, albeit completely different entities of religion and dogma based faith - that hegelian based principle. On second thought, I'm not entering into this dance.

Peace Lynn, I'll keep my two cents to myself in future.

XXX

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 09:39 PM
Hello:

I am follower of Jesus Christ, for 25 years now. I can hardly believe it. In that time I have witnessed the power of His liberating message bring:

Hope to the hopeless
Joy to the despairing
Peace to the tormented
Solace to the lonely

and light to the darkened mind.

Yes, I have seen His loving hand touch peoples lives, including alcoholics, obessive/compulsives, manic depressives, suicidal folks, and yes, homosexuals. They are no different.

Peolple need the Lord.

So we can talk all night about social injustice, equality, political correctdness, cultural engineering, etc...

But ultimately, we will all die. And if you belong to Christ like many, many ex____ that I have personally met, well then, at your point of death, you will be in paradise...Just like the thief on the cross.

So, how did I come to the knowledge of this wonderful truth? It was being preached on the street (witout a permit !), by a group of young Christians in Brooklyn, NY.

They shared the gospel of Jesus Christ with me openly and with sincere love. Christ became my Lord and saviour shortly therafter and I have not been the same since. Jesus now dwells in us! That is true everlasting joy.

He will do the same for you. That's a promise, just believe on Christ. He truly Loves you, no matter what you have done.

Lynns husband

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 10:23 PM
by marypopinz on 2004/12/23 20:06:27

Lynn, please re-read my post... I don't think we are talking about the same issue... playing into the media's hands.

No mary, actually I was replying to freeman. You came in talking in agreement with him, and then you continued about some of the topics he alluded to.

Then I had to reply to you .

And please stop with that "hate" word and all the righteous judgement calls.

"hate" word?:) mary you can thank the new world order you speak of so very freely on here for that topic. It is not one close to "my" heart, though as a Christian, yes, it is often unfairly attributed to me and my brethren.

Why do you bring up a word so often used and try to attribute it to "me" personally?

Using a word they use against us, on a fairly frequent basis, is not a thing I find repugnant, since it is often used these days to silence us and falsely and erroneously label us. This word is also used to silence any oposition to these sinful lifestyles and people, no matter what the source.

I don't appreciate constantly hearing about people hating other people, just my two cents.

"People"? What "people" are you speaking of exactly, mary? The "people" (me) who just posted that you're replying to, perhaps? I see no other "people" you are speaking to mary, in this context.

When you ascribe words about "hate" and "hating" to "people" mary, you best be sure who you are addressing. mary you are being quite politically "correct" in ascribing characteristics like "people hating people" to those you do not know, who happen to be Christians labeled by governments like your own as "hate-rs" and "hating". That's a fact hon and not one "I" invented.

If you don't appreciate it why are you addressing me?

I'm not the one who invented these systems of governance for men. Nor am I the one who is corrupting them.

You ought to be careful throwing around inflammatory,accusatory, not to mention false, statements about others mary, particularly in this context, as it does not look good from here.

The moslem hates the christian, the christian hates the gay, the government hates the people, the kids hate their parents, the parents hate each other and on and on it goes.

I "hate" no gay and no man, mary. Please stop this grandstanding and emotionalism at the expense of me and my comments.

If you don't like Christians, fine. If you find them "hateful" fine, you seem to suggest that. This is what you feel. But do not throw the comment about as if it is some vague loose comment that fell out of the Heavens. If you're going to make unkind and false allusions, make them plain. Then it can be clearly seen, and not sideways insults like you have ladeled out here.

Give your words an owner mary, or you will be in true danger of looking and speaking like the very thing you seem to be crying out against.

Now that I think of it, even if you gave your words a direct "owner", the presumption in your reply is that you are talking to me. And I don't need to be attacked.


Where it will stop, nobody knows.

mary, you are the one who took this to a new, more longwindied, place.. Not me. And hon, you keep doing that..

Jesus and Mohammed are left and right, albeit completely different entities of religion and dogma based faith - that hegelian based principle.

Hegel was a man and not my God. This isn't seeming to me a dialogue of faith, so much as an effort for you to say something, and instead, you have used your comments to try to make wrong and erroneous suggestions about me and those in my faith.

On second thought, I'm not entering into this dance.

Hon, you entered into this "dance" the moment you came in speaking for (?) freeman earlier today.

You re-entered it with your many words comments above.

It is quite unattractive, not to mention morally wrong, to come into a conversation under the guise of "well meaning", when all the comments are really doing is drawing undue attention to one's self, in order for that person to cut another down.

mary, if you have issues, and it seems you do, with "Christians" and "Muslims" and "hate" and "hating", then open up a thread and speak for yourself, hon.

Don't slide into a talk, that really wasn't actually addressing you, then sashay over to a position which has you in the "starring" role, cutting down another person, simply to make yourself look good. It doesn't and, I'm sorry to say, in these instances, you don't.

If you do things like this, particulalry in a public venue, expect what you get.

Don't whine about it as a public "outcry" and seek to pin all your hurts, pains and annoyances with the "human-race" on one lone individual,(in this case me), who you do not particularly, perhaps, agree with or like.

Peace Lynn, I'll keep my two cents to myself in future.

Too late the hero hon.

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 10:44 PM
by marypopinz on 2004/12/23 20:06:27

Lynn, please re-read my post... I don't think we are talking about the same issue... playing into the media's hands.

No mary, actually I was replying to freeman. You came in talking in agreement with him, and then you continued about some of the topics he alluded to.

Then I had to reply to you .

And please stop with that "hate" word and all the righteous judgement calls.

"hate" word?:) mary you can thank the new world order you speak of so very freely on here for that topic. It is not one close to "my" heart, though as a Christian, yes, it is often unfairly attributed to me and my brethren.

Why do you bring up a word so often used and try to attribute it to "me" personally?

Using a word they use against us, on a fairly frequent basis, is not a thing I find repugnant, since it is often used these days to silence us and falsely and erroneously label us. This word is also used to silence any oposition to these sinful lifestyles and people, no matter what the source.

I don't appreciate constantly hearing about people hating other people, just my two cents.

"People"? What "people" are you speaking of exactly, mary? The "people" (me) who just posted that you're replying to, perhaps? I see no other "people" you are speaking to mary, in this context.

When you ascribe words about "hate" and "hating" to "people" mary, you best be sure who you are addressing. mary you are being quite politically "correct" in ascribing characteristics like "people hating people" to those you do not know, who happen to be Christians labeled by governments like your own as "hate-rs" and "hating". That's a fact hon and not one "I" invented.

If you don't appreciate it why are you addressing me?

I'm not the one who invented these systems of governance for men. Nor am I the one who is corrupting them.

You ought to be careful throwing around inflammatory,accusatory, not to mention false, statements about others mary, particularly in this context, as it does not look good from here.

The moslem hates the christian, the christian hates the gay, the government hates the people, the kids hate their parents, the parents hate each other and on and on it goes.

I "hate" no gay and no man, mary. Please stop this grandstanding and emotionalism at the expense of me and my comments.

If you don't like Christians, fine. If you find them "hateful" fine, you seem to suggest that. This is what you feel. But do not throw the comment about as if it is some vague loose comment that fell out of the Heavens. If you're going to make unkind and false allusions, make them plain. Then it can be clearly seen, and not sideways insults like you have ladeled out here.

Give your words an owner mary, or you will be in true danger of looking and speaking like the very thing you seem to be crying out against.

Now that I think of it, even if you gave your words a direct "owner", the presumption in your reply is that you are talking to me. And I don't need to be attacked.


Where it will stop, nobody knows.

mary, you are the one who took this to a new, more longwindied, place.. Not me. And hon, you keep doing that..

Jesus and Mohammed are left and right, albeit completely different entities of religion and dogma based faith - that hegelian based principle.

Hegel was a man and not my God. This isn't seeming to me a dialogue of faith, so much as an effort for you to say something, and instead, you have used your comments to try to make wrong and erroneous suggestions about me and those in my faith.

On second thought, I'm not entering into this dance.

Hon, you entered into this "dance" the moment you came in speaking for (?) freeman earlier today.

You re-entered it with your many words comments above.

It is quite unattractive, not to mention morally wrong, to come into a conversation under the guise of "well meaning", when all the comments are really doing is drawing undue attention to one's self, in order for that person to cut another down.

mary, if you have issues, and it seems you do, with "Christians" and "Muslims" and "hate" and "hating", then open up a thread and speak for yourself, hon.

Don't slide into a talk, that really wasn't actually addressing you, then sashay over to a position which has you in the "starring" role, cutting down another person, simply to make yourself look good. It doesn't and, I'm sorry to say, in these instances, you don't.

If you do things like this, particulalry in a public venue, expect what you get.

Don't whine about it as a public "outcry" and seek to pin all your hurts, pains and annoyances with the "human-race" on one lone individual,(in this case me), who you do not particularly, perhaps, agree with or like.

Peace Lynn, I'll keep my two cents to myself in future.

Too late the hero hon.

freeman
12-23-2004, 10:48 PM
I think you may be a bit more effected and taken in by the double-speak of these parties than you KNOW

As I said, Lynn, I knew I would be expressing a controversial viewpoint on this issue, but I am not backing down. That's okay, hit me with your best shot. I can take it, and I really need to work this through with people whose opinions I respect.
I bleieve the militant, dominionist brand of Christian Right tactics employed by charlatans such as Falwell, Robertson, etc. has done more to discredit real Christian values than the NWO opposition ever could have accomplished on their own. It is no small wonder to me that acts of volence (bombings and murders of abortion workers) and characters like Eric Rudolph have emerged from this morass of self-righteous subversion.
Further, I am not convinced that as a Christian I am required to hate homosexuals or even protest homosexuality in general. These were Old Testament and largely Talmudic taboos. Jesus founded the Christian faith on only two commandments: "Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself." Maybe I missed the part where he said to love only your heterosexual neighbor, but I doubt it. Why didn't Jesus stone the adulterous woman, if he was really on board with this "Moral Majority" dogma? Further, the vision of the clean and unclean meats by St. Peter speaks toward this whole notion of Christians being bound by every commandment and law of the Old Testament. After all, you don't plan on sacrificing an ox any time soon, right?
What I DO hate are the efforts of the NWO/Illuminati to use homosexuality as another tool to undermine and corrupt traditional family structures and values, the same as feminism, promiscuity, substance abuse, etc. When they start to encourage homosexuality as not just an alternative but a PREFERABLE lifestyle, that is what gets my dander up. But much like the Jewish people, I feel that homsexuals are pawn themselves in this evil game.
From my own personal observation and experience, there is no doubt in my mind that a certain percentage of people (probably less than 10, I agree with Dr. Makow) are born with homosexual orientation. My own cousin was an example. He had totally normal parents, no trauma in his upbringing, but he always displayed effeminate, homosexual tendencies. My mother lived with his parents (her brother and sister-in-law) before she was married, and she could attest to these facts.
The boy struggled through high school, trying to "pass" even to the point of dating one or two girls, but when he finally went off to college, he decided it was time to "come out" and confront his parents. Their repsonse was pure kneejerk, fundamentalist Christianity. They threw him out of the house, rejected him as a son for many years and covered up the whole incident with the rest of the family. My mother was heartsick over it, since she suspected, and she had great affection for her nephew because she helped to raise him. He was totally isolated form his family, so hard up at one point my father gave him a leftover set of snow tires and I remember he had tears in his eyes when he accepted them. He was always a good, responsible guy, his relationships were discrete, and he conducted himself in an upright and moral manner as far as I'm concerned. When another aunt was terminally ill and lived close to him at the time, he constantly aided, assisted and generally looked out for her, as well as my mother when she had to move in with her sister and help nurse her at the end. When he ultimately reconciled with his parents, he displayed nothing but love and respect and was completely loyal and supportive through the death of his father, his widowed mother's health and finances, etc.
My aunt and uncle thought they were doing the right thing, the "Christian" thing. In fact, there seemed to be a genetic component at work on my aunt's side. She had a brother who exhibited similar tendencies, and her parents, aghast at the prospect of a "queer" in the family had him treated with hormones and every other remedy conventional medical science had in its arsenal at that time. He claimed to be "cured", but eventually he married a behemoth of a woman who looked more masculine than he did, and they had such a long and stormy relationship, I often wondered whether he would have been happier as a gay person.
Hating is not a Christian principle, whether we are hating gay people individually or collectively as the homosexual community. The subborners of Christianity encourage these divisions the same as they exacerbate any of their Hegelian conflicts. By reducing Christians to a level as mean-spirited and contentious as the forces of Satan, they reduce us to their level and cause Christians to lose respect universally.
I am not saying that homosexuality is part of God's plan, nor that Christians should not speak out against those who would exploit it as a wedge issue to weaken traditional values. I AM saying that we have to be careful how we approach the battle, and that we should never fail to express love and understanding for all of God's children and their differences, as well as their similarities.

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 11:01 PM
freeman

I would like to apologize to you though, if my words seemed to jump on you for some of your comments.

I can't take back all I said.

But I never meant to make a comment about you personally, in regard to your faith, whatever that may be.

I am sorry mary found me "judgeing". It's a shame one can't judge, (determine through deciphering,) right from wrong or truth from untruth, without being personally condemned by some.

mary, I am also sorry if some of my words put you off, but I can't take back what I would have said again in a heartbeat, especially about what we American Christians must contend with.

When I looked back at freeman's comment I don't know that he was looking to be judgeing we Christians or unkind.

It could've been a kneejerk reaction on my part, but I don't seek to attack anyone, simply share what has been my insight or experience.

So, in the end, though I really can't take back all I've said, and I wouldn't, I am sorry if some of my words here offended anyone, particulalry those of anopther faith, or those who simply have other or different views or opinions, or opinions about we Christians.

I never meant to attack you freeman. I wasn't trying to. And mary I am sorry what i said to you was the kinder cut. I assure you if another replied it might have been far worse.

I only know what it is like to see, or seem to see, my rights, true human rights, slipping away, or efforts coming up daily, to try to strip them away in the name of secularism.

I still think there is a wrong thing about looking to "silence" the Christian, or anyone.
But especially, in light of these things, people of faith.

Not agreeing with a person is not "hating" them.
Nor is it being "phobic" of them.

It simply means you don't agree.

Merry Christmas

lynns_shadow
12-23-2004, 11:01 PM
freeman

I would like to apologize to you though, if my words seemed to jump on you for some of your comments.

I can't take back all I said.

But I never meant to make a comment about you personally, in regard to your faith, whatever that may be.

I am sorry mary found me "judgeing". It's a shame one can't judge, (determine through deciphering,) right from wrong or truth from untruth, without being personally condemned by some.

mary, I am also sorry if some of my words put you off, but I can't take back what I would have said again in a heartbeat, especially about what we American Christians must contend with.

When I looked back at freeman's comment I don't know that he was looking to be judgeing we Christians or unkind.

It could've been a kneejerk reaction on my part, but I don't seek to attack anyone, simply share what has been my insight or experience.

So, in the end, though I really can't take back all I've said, and I wouldn't, I am sorry if some of my words here offended anyone, particulalry those of anopther faith, or those who simply have other or different views or opinions, or opinions about we Christians.

I never meant to attack you freeman. I wasn't trying to. And mary I am sorry what i said to you was the kinder cut. I assure you if another replied it might have been far worse.

I only know what it is like to see, or seem to see, my rights, true human rights, slipping away, or efforts coming up daily, to try to strip them away in the name of secularism.

I still think there is a wrong thing about looking to "silence" the Christian, or anyone.
But especially, in light of these things, people of faith.

Not agreeing with a person is not "hating" them.
Nor is it being "phobic" of them.

It simply means you don't agree.

Merry Christmas

freeman
12-23-2004, 11:33 PM
You don't have to apologize, Lynne.
As I said, I was inviting this discussion, in order to bring some of these issues out in the open that have troubled and conflicted me for some time now.
Now, I may well be wrong about these Pink Angels protesting the gay protestors. They may well be sincere people of faith simply trying to interject a counter viewpoint, to wit, that being gay is not politically correct while traditional heterosexual values aren't (the subtle innuendo constantly driven home by the Satanists).
But I have legitimte qualms about these kinds of activities degenerating into a sideshow where both sides simply "mirror" each other in terms of intolerance and offensiveness. A lot of the militant Religous Right forces are controlled just as much as the ultra liberal types, and by the same global elitists. I am convinced of that.
For instance, look at how the government made their case against Fritz Springmeier. When they wanted to bring him up on bank robbery charges, they claimed to have found materials linking him to a militant, anarchist religious group called the Army of God (supposedly they even found ceramic body armor with an Army of God patch on the left shoulder; I know, time out for everyone to have a big belly laugh).
Further, we all have our hot button issues. For me it is obviously Freemasonry, since it has hurt myself and many other members of my immediate family deeply and personally. There may come a time when I will depend on you and others to rein me in when I delve too deeply into that subject matter.
I will simply say in closing that I think we as Christians and people of faith must be careful of the manner in which we address our criticisms and protests, taking care not to fall into any traps designed to convey an image of us as insensitive, narrowminded and intolerant. This was epitomized by the wisdom of Jesus as he dodged the minefield laid out for him by the Pharisees.
Merry Christmas to you as well.

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 12:03 AM
freeman it is late and I am spending too much time here, but I will try to reply..

You say:

As I said, Lynn, I knew I would be expressing a controversial viewpoint on this issue, but I am not backing down. That's okay, hit me with your best shot. I can take it, and I really need to work this through with people whose opinions I respect.

That's great freeman. Just that I don't "hit" people. It may seem that, it can be tiring defending one's self, particularly in a forum where one might not expect such things..I'll be happy to reply as I can.

I believe the militant, dominionist brand of Christian Right tactics employed by charlatans such as Falwell, Robertson, etc. has done more to discredit real Christian values than the NWO opposition ever could have accomplished on their own.

Agreed. If people gauge "Christians" as a whole by simply all of them we'd be in for troubles.:)
I'd like to think people who are truly seeking Christ look for more. I did..And I was really blessed by my Husband's comments as well:)

It is no small wonder to me that acts of volence (bombings and murders of abortion workers) and characters like Eric Rudolph have emerged from this morass of self-righteous subversion.

Sorry, I have no idea who that is. What is "self-righteoues subversion"? Is that like Liberalism. I find the secularism that is linked to quite subversive. Morass, I don;t think you are referring to even close to any slight majority in the Chrisiran ranks, freeman, actually.

Further, I am not convinced that as a Christian I am required to hate homosexuals or even protest homosexuality in general.

Ok I agree there. But you are makinga grand erroneous presumption in that comment alone. You are suggesting we Christians "hate".This is untrue.

If you have a child or a loved nephew and you see him running with wild abandon into a fiery oven, do you not run and grab him away? Do you stop and think "Oh I may offend him" or "Oh he enjoys this let me say and do nothing". No, out of love yous top him. Out of love you let him know he is hurting hinself. Out of love you risk his dislike and annoyance for his betterment.

Aren't you being "hate-ful", restrictive? No.
You are simply letting him know the truth and right from wrong. Period.You are loving him so much, you're willing to be unpopualr with him to share what he deep down knows is true and for his best.

These were Old Testament and largely Talmudic taboos.

Homosexuality is much more than a "taboo" it is a sin. Sir, you are correct in this, both the Old and New Testament, in other words the whole Bible, shares the sin of homosexual actiivities is wrong. And yes an entire city burned for this. It wa scalled Sodom and Gomorrah. From which we get the word sodomy, or sodomite, what gay mendo to each other and what a gay man is.

I know in your country this fact may be blotted out by a sodomizing government. It makes God's truth on it and His Word about it no less true freeman.

Jesus founded the Christian faith on only two commandments: "Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself."

Ok, got you there..But Christ and the Christian "faith" are not limited to only 2 commandments freeman. But for the sake of your point I will let that be.

Maybe I missed the part where he said to love only your heterosexual neighbor, but I doubt it.

I wholelly agree. I think the gay men and women are, if it is indeed possible, to be loved more than anyone else into the Kingdom of God. They are the hurting parties that are used as dupes and pawns for Satan's advantage to bring about changes that will ruin society, and do them, and are doing, countless others, tremendous harm.

Why didn't Jesus stone the adulterous woman, if he was really on board with this "Moral Majority" dogma?

freeman, seeing a thing as wrong and calling it wrong is not akin to "stoning" an adulterer or "on board" with "this moral majority dogma" (I don't really understand what that means. Or what you mean in this context.

Further, the vision of the clean and unclean meats by St. Peter speaks toward this whole notion of Christians being bound by every commandment and law of the Old Testament. After all, you don't plan on sacrificing an ox any time soon, right?

No, it means don't let minor differences infaith be a stumbling block, freeman. It was actually specifically referring to meats and shellfish, pork and the like. I hardly call a contrast between meat-eaters and vegans one to be contrasted with sodomy and perversions,freeman.

The moment we quit wanting what God says, what God wants, thinking His thoughts, they win. It is that simple. It may sem incremental ,but it;s true.

What I DO hate are the efforts of the NWO/Illuminati to use homosexuality as another tool to undermine and corrupt traditional family structures and values, the same as feminism, promiscuity, substance abuse, etc.

Agreed

When they start to encourage homosexuality as not just an alternative but a PREFERABLE lifestyle, that is what gets my dander up.

Agreed. Absolutely, agreed.

But much like the Jewish people, I feel that homosexuals are pawn themselves in this evil game.

Pawns, yes. But this "game" is out there for all and any who do not resist.

They should be dealt with with much love and kindness. But I am never truly loving anyone by shutting blind eyes to their sin and not letting them know better. Am I "judgeing" them? I am letting then know and reminding them about right from wrong, for their Eternal welfare.

1Corinthians 13 says "Love" "rejoices in the Truth".

I never truly am loving with anyone if I can't and don't let them know the truth, in love.

I kind of see the Christians and Orthodox Jews, but eventually, mainly, the Christians being the target here, freeman.

From my own personal observation and experience, there is no doubt in my mind that a certain percentage of people (probably less than 10, I agree with Dr. Makow) are born with homosexual orientation.

Less, I am sure.But they are aiming higher. Ok I am not disagreeing here.

My own cousin was an example. He had totally normal parents, no trauma in his upbringing, but he always displayed effeminate, homosexual tendencies.

Mine too. He died of Aids in 1992. Though not awfully effeminate, very slightly, almost negligable. We were pretty close. He was my Father's God-son.

My mother lived with his parents (her brother and sister-in-law) before she was married, and she could attest to these facts.

Ok..

The boy struggled through high school, trying to "pass" even to the point of dating one or two girls, but when he finally went off to college, he decided it was time to "come out" and confront his parents. Their repsonse was pure kneejerk, fundamentalist Christianity. They threw him out of the house, rejected him as a son for many years and covered up the whole incident with the rest of the family.

I'm sorry for that.Ok..

Hating is not a Christian principle, whether we are hating gay people individually or collectively as the homosexual community.

Tht is true freeman.

The subborners of Christianity encourage these divisions the same as they exacerbate any of their Hegelian conflicts. By reducing Christians to a level as mean-spirited and contentious as the forces of Satan, they reduce us to their level and cause Christians to lose respect universally.

No that is a given,actually. God's Word says we will be hated for His sake. Actually, freeman, it says the world will nate us for His sake.

I don't know about Hegel. I think, no I know, Christians are consistently cut downa nd undermined by them. We live with it always.

My Husband lost a job the week before Thanksgiving for being a Christian. For "mentioning God" "a bit too much".He is the most loving man, and human being, I know.
A most kind and unobnoxious person in his faith and life.

I AM saying that we have to be careful how we approach the battle, and that we should never fail to express love and understanding for all of God's children and their differences, as well as their similarities.

Seems, from what I am gleaning, they love to "play" us all, freeman. I think you're right, and I do agree about not failing to be loving and kind to all.

One of the most difficult things is we are asked to love our enemies. I don't find gays in any away an "enemy". Though these dark powers seek to make them think we are their enemy.

But, as I said, they seek to make us look ugly and small to the world. So they may offer a different vision.

That was my point.

It doesn't end for us.

But,God is greater.

I'd like to share with you a poem I wrote about my cousin, who was also gay,like yours. His name was Keith.

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 12:14 AM
Keith

was more than just a
"homosexual"
He was my cousin
Keith
was beautiful
Keith
was one of my first crushes

I found out he was "gay" when I was 14.
His life did not end gaily
I don't know that it was even so very 'gay' in
between.
What a kind of queer word-
"gay"
As if these folks must be happy "every day". An
endless life of bliss..We've not see this..

Keith was just a person..
He had a dog
He was a wonderful writer
He wrote some bios on movie stars
He lived on Christopher Street
His apartment was small
Keith sang well
He played the guitar and at Folk City,too
Keith loaned me my first Simon & Garfunkel
album..
I played it for a class project Senior year.

Thinking back..
I don't think there was one ugly or unpleasant
thing about Keith!
He was the ring-bearer at my parents Wedding.
Keith was, in a way, the son my Father never
had. He was my Father's God-son.
Keith was born in May,like my Mother.
I swear Keith was art,kind of..

Keith had a few chubby years as a teen
and awful sarcasm, like his alcoholic Dad. A
misunderstood and pained man, his Father.

I think Keith may've worn the first Drew Cary
glasses in '67, though I cannot say for sure..Keith
was a somewhat hippie..back then.The
Beatles..John Lennon..

Keiths books are still sold on Amazon
.com..

Keith was at all our family parties.
I always looked forward to seeing him.

His Mother is my Aunt.
My Father's Sister.

Why must senseless crusades go on on both sides
political fences?!
Keith did not "choose" this..
Not directly.
Not exactly..
I never said the best life-style choice..can we
PLEASE put away the big guns?

He had to go on Lithium when he found out from
the Dr.
Suddenly he had mania and was buying too
much.. it was not like him..

Keith understood the things I said and had to say.


No,I'm not gay.

I loved Keith anyway..

Keith gave me my first book of poetry. Emily
Dickinson
And Pablo Neruda..
He signed them too..


Keith took me to see a band play at the Palladium
in '75, or was it '76?

Keith liked Don McLean, back then..

Keith had dark hair
Like most of our family..
I'm seeing him now in my mind's eye..
Alive..
It's not scarey..

Keith liked Annie Lennox..

And dressing well..
What's wrong with that?!

Keith felt I was the "only Christian" he agreed
with or felt sincere..But I know there are many
more of us. My Husband, being one. Just other
folks caught up in fighting stereotypes about 'who
we are' or aren't..

I know I must've had one dream that Keith was
not my Cousin or a "homosexual", both.. so I
could date Keith..In many ways, he was a
wonderful role model of a man's fine qualities..


His voice was not fluttery or high or whiney..
He didn't wear feathers..
Or collect Judy Garland or Bette Midler music..
Not at all!

Can't recall a pink or flashy thing he wore.
-
I'm sorry you're gone..
Your Mom's not well now.
You know we're praying..
Keith..

I'd be glad to carry that torch as
family-writer/artist Keith..

Wish you were here to see it..

Me..

Last thing you said when I was 27 was that I was
"just a kid".I guess I was..

Next to you, I guess I was..

November 8th was my head on collision in 2002.
God and His Grace spared my life. Thank you
God.Thank you Jesus. That's the day you kissed
the blue..1992.. I hadn't realized 'til I saw my
Mother's funeral card.

I was YOUR age THEN when this happened.
Whats with THAT?:)! Huh Keith-O?:)


Keith, Cristal, James..
We love you..

We will forget none of you..

Not one..

With Our Love,
Your-
Cousins
Sisters
Brothers
Friends

amen


P.S. Sins can have all kinds of glossy names. And
we ALL have sin, and have sinned..

But people are just people..
Each individual
Precious
Special
Unique
and
Fine

Try to understand..


I guess this sharing may not belong in this title at
all..

Since Keith was so much more..

Than an idea of someones idea of what someone
is or should be. Or could be..

But anyway,

Thats all.

Time to close the book..


















I miss Keith
Thank you Keith
I love you Keith

It's ok now..
It's always been..
It's ok now..
*Nods.

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 12:35 AM
One last thing.

I used the word "sodomite" for gay men who are doing "sodomy". When a man does this, this is what he is making himself act as. The man may be more than this, of course.

But arranging his life around this, and such things, is what it is called plain and simple.

It may seem impersonal or judgemental the word, but we can't forget this is what God's Word says.

On gay people, He also says, before (Christ) "such were some of you"

A man is more than his sinful actions. But when a man is building his life and very self image on a sin, this is in a way, what he is labeling himself by the acts.

We ought not to forget to be loving to them, I agree.

But, we must never forget, that God's truth in love is the very best thing for all men.

No matter how they may hate us for sharing it.

For a website run by men and women who have been delivered of these things through God's power in Jesus Christ, here is a link:

www.stonewallrevisited.com

Night now..

wittness
12-24-2004, 12:35 AM
Freeman,
I liked your post,you seem to have some real understanding.
What most men and women don't seem to realise today is that the same darkness that fuels the NWO ALSO fuels "churchianity".Most won't dig as the Scriptures say we must to find truth,and satan is a master at deception.The NWO will achieve their goals,for this must happen to show man the fruits of our decisions.YHWH will intervene at the proper time and the Kingdom (government)that the Messiah always preached WILL be established on this earth.I myself must continue to fight against those powers of darkness as YHWH creates His character in me.I long for that family....Most "christians" won't even research something as simple as the pagan origins of Xmas,lie to their kids about a santa,etc.,and believe me ,that's just the tip of the iceberg.Man truely reaps what he sows. Keep diggin for the truth and never give up..Ed

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 12:45 AM
The stonewallrevisted site seems gone.

I don't know why..

They may have been sabatoged online and/or threatened, no idea.

Here is a link to the cached copy.

I'd check it out, if it still is it, while it's still online.

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:SesysxiD2pEJ:www.stonewallrevisited .com/+stonewallrevisited&hl=en

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 01:00 AM
I don't know what "churchianity" is and can't afford to buy "the book" to find out:)

freeman, I am easily perhaps, in some sense, your "average" Christian in all I've said.

I wouldn't dream of going against my brothers and sisters in Christ, not for little things.

But not all who claim Christ are saved. And not all who claim Christ will even want allegiance with true Christians.

This too was prophesied. Many will fall away. Brother will betray brother, and so forth.


Not about you freeman, just a general observation:)

The stonewallrevistited site has been taken down or moved.

Here is the cached copy as of Dec 13, 2004

You may have to do a small bit of research or copy and paste to get it to work,it's worth it.:)

http://64.233.187.104/search?q=cache:SesysxiD2pEJ:www.stonewallrevisited .com/+stonewallrevisited&hl=en

lynns_shadow
12-24-2004, 01:05 AM
Satan does NOT want you finding this site.

The link I gave works for me but comes up blank from here..

Please do this..

Do a search online with

"stonewallrevisited.com"

You will see links for a cached copy of the website.

You'll need to click on that.

Shame it's down..

Very very bad..

DarkChilde3D
12-24-2004, 03:41 AM
Just my 2 cents . . .

Any governmental employees who will arrest people for praying needs to be publicly burned at the stake in a metaphorical sense. The man that gave the order IS evil. Arresting people for praying carries the mark of the beast if I ever seen it. But, since religiosness is not, "cool" these days . . . since anyone going to church or praying is immediately cast as a "Jesus Freak", this will not happen.

What we need here is to place hackers into our employ, and totlly ruin this man's life using his own tools . . . then he can reflect on how he was wronged. And whenm he appologises to the public of his own volition through his publicist, then he can be freed.

marypopinz
12-24-2004, 08:25 AM
D.C.

Funny you mention that. Jesus freak is directly below jesus in the dictionary. I don't know when oxford staring being in on their game... and for the doubters... they have God awful under God.

I thought words were looked up individually?
They now are creating this kind of flow when the young mind scans the pages for his definition. Good thing Jesus is a forgiving soul. (Are you? Or do you hold onto your anger? Just a thought.)

i.e.: in Jesus:(n.)...........

Jesus freak:(n.)..............

When I retrieve my dictionary, I will start a thread on this little meaning to words defining the life thingy.

Please no one take this as an offence. I am merely showing how Oxford is taking their meaning of the words in our lives, to the streets, our children, and the depths of hell.

Just something I noticed I thought was bad programming in the dictionary.

N.B. 30% of Nova Scotian children are homeschooled. They are being taught to be anti-social. No wonder the racism has flourished here. You should see how heavily Christian oriented the materials for home-schooling generally are. A very evangelical breed of hatred for anything other than Christian... it feels very Nazi to me with a Christian sugar-coating.

XXX

nohope187
12-24-2004, 09:24 PM
With regards to Christians being arrested and sentenced for life, "It's the end of the world as we know it. It's the end of the world as we know it. It's the end of the world as we know it and I do'nt feel fine." -taken from the song by REM, the last line slightly changed, though. :-P

marypopinz
12-25-2004, 10:51 AM
Hope, you need to feel fine cuz its gonna get better. This you must believe and have faith in - a true test of your spirituality. The truth always comes to light, yes? Darkness is only the absense of light.

Truth is coming to light before our eyes and we are helping to birth this child called peace... the hope of our future. Please believe in peace hope, for my children's sake... for me.

Find your hope, I'll give you mine... hold onto hope with all your faith from all your heart and we'll all get through this insanity of recognizing reality for what it is... insane.

Mary XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Merry Christmas!

thokhanCep
12-25-2004, 11:40 AM
Has any one linked sexual orientation and the amount of estrogen/testosterone ingested
un-naturally on a day to day scale?

For instance we have female contraceptives being used and flushed down the toilet.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/offbeat/2004-10-03-deformed-fish_x.htm
Fish near some Colo. plants found with male-female tissue
DENVER (AP) Fish with both male and female sex tissue have been discovered near Colorado wastewater treatment plants on the South Platte River and Boulder Creek.
Scientists are trying to determine if chemicals that disrupt hormones, such as estrogen, are responsible for the gender-bending phenomenon.


Now this is not new it has been happening ever since "the pill" has been on the market.

I am not sure nor do I care if they have ever "mapped out" the gay/queer/homosexual percentage of any given population in any country
I am sure that the increase of homosexuality is chemically induced. This ,for the NWO types, goes
great for their population control scheme.
( testosterone would be the female equivalent )
Gay people do not make babies.
They can adopt or have donor sperm or "carrier" moms.

If two people can find a long lasting love on this crazy world , should anyone really care if they are the same sex?
The flip side to long lasting love is the promiscuous life style. That is where any concern should lie. The "players" and "sluts" be it heterosexual or homosexual seems to be the new
"thing" A constant bombardment from multi media
portraying this kind of behaviour as acceptable.
In the year 2000+ What is a good 1st date? Go to the doctor to get some blood work and find out if you have any S.T.D's??
The people who need the most help are bi-sexuals
That life style is usually drug infested and wreckless.
Like the good doctor said
heterosexuals are the new jews

Oh yeah 1 more thing .. if you ever see a "gay" person with a pink pyrimad tattoo on them.... That was a Nazi concentration camp arm band worn by the gay population and they probably got executed along side the mentally ill and the physically handi capped.

kerry
03-25-2010, 05:53 PM
47 years in jail?
for preeching the bible at a gay party?
why?.. is the law afrade it will hurt the morrells of the gay?

kerry
04-07-2010, 01:29 PM
f--k gays

kerry
04-07-2010, 01:38 PM
gays are a danger to the morrell values of minors. gay is a subverse type of wanton behavour..
gays that adopt children and endanger them to thisv vile practise are going strait to hell. there is vno such thing as a gay family.. a gay marrage is not reconnized by common law. gay is not normal and a gay should be taken off the streets and put in a mental hospittal. i dont hate gays i just dont like them there not normal. being gays have no shame is proof they are sick people