"The Fog Of War" Interviews with Robert McNamara. A must see!

[truebeliever]

WMV files available here...www.members.iinet.net.au/~falluga

"The Fog Of War" Interviews With Robert McNamara.

Absolutely riveting! You must get the DVD documentary. Straight from this servant of powers mouth. In this first extract, McNamara talks of firebombing to death 100,000 Japanese in one night and how he and General Lemay would have been tried as war criminals had they lost the war.

In this second extract, McNamara and Kennedy discuss pulling out ALL troops from Vietnam within 2 years. Fletcher Prouty and Oliver Stone received scorn for this claim. Well, here we hear it from the horses mouth's.

In this third extract, Lyndon Johnson berates McNamara for agreeing with Kennedy to pull troops out (3 months after JFK's assassination). The talk is eerily similar to talk today of Iraq and the American situation.

Here we have in this 4th extract the complete admission that the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident DID'NT happen. Includes audio of people on the scene trying to tell the powers in Washington what they want to hear. I guess that clears that one up.

www.members.iinet.net.au/~falluga

[Draken]

Talking of Prouty...

<a href="http://www.ratical.org/ratville/JFK/ST/ST.html">THE SECRET TEAM</a>


The CIA
and Its Allies
in Control of the United
States and the World



L. FLETCHER PROUTY
Col., U.S. Air Force (Ret.)

[Draken]

After watching truebeliever's clips from the "Fog Of War" documentary interviews with Robert McNamara I have a few questions:

Why?

Why does McNamara come out and talk so "candidly" about the supposed course of action in Vietnam?

Why NOW?

Bad conscience?
Guilt?

Or is it deception and misdirection?
Diversion?

If so, what are these revelations supposed to cover up?

Why is McNamara ALLOWED to talk so "candidly" in a lengthy interview?

WHAT DO THE POWERS-THAT-BE WANT US TO THINK?

WHAT ARE THE DESIRED EFFECTS OF SUCH REVELATIONS?

[this]

I've seen the Fog movie and seen McNamara argue at a disarmament conference for reduction of all nuclear weapons. I think he isn't in the loop, and is just letting the good guys know all that he knows.

[truebeliever]

I agree THIS.

He's still a war criminal by any standard. He's typical of the 'rationalistic' monster that can only 'think', he cant feel though he appears to be trying in his old age.

I think he's simply guilty as he prepares to meet his maker.

He's one of those individuals that needs to speak the truth like the character Jack Nicholsen plays in "A Few Good Men".

Perhaps from another view...perhaps he is still serving power by arguing for disarmament...after all, a U.N (Illuminati) goal. Perhaps he must make America feel guilty enough that they will through up their hands and cry..."we are so evil! Please allow the U.N to come and administer us..." with help from 'W'.

It's right to question his motives.

I still believe he is looking over his shoulder like Kissenger. And simply has a conscience he no longer has the energy to keep at bay.

[Draken]

Yeah, but why do they LET him shoot his mouth off? Others get killed;
suicided, "aggressive form of cancer", drug overdose - they poisoned
McCarthy for Chrissake. Why do they let him talk? Does he know he will
NEVER be tried for crimes against humanity and therefore is safe to
clear his conscience? YES. He would never do it otherwise! Do you
really think he would say these things if he knew he would get tried in
the Hague Tribunal (for war crimes committed by other than Americans
and Brits)? If he knew they'd execute him he would NEVER say the thing
he says now.
There's no question he's guilty. He says it himself: would they've lost
WW2 they would've been tried and convicted of war crimes. OF COURSE
he's guilty! They are guilty of of fire bombing Dresden as well,
killing between 120000 - 150000 German civilians 13 Feb 1945, but he
didn't say a peep about that, now did he? How come? If he wants to
clear his conscience, why not clear HIS WHOLE CONSCIENCE and not just a
little bit?

"3,600 British and U.S. airplanes launched over 650,000 incendiary
bombs and hundreds of 8,000 lb. and 4000 lb. bombs on the city of
Dresden. The pilots reported that smoke rose to a height of 15,000
feet."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/fromthearchive/story/0,12269,1414577,00.html

"As for the death roll, the population, as we shall see, had been well
nigh doubled by a last-minute influx of refugees flying before the Red
Army; and even the German authorities -- usually so pedantic in their
estimates -- gave up trying to work out the precise total after some
35,000 bodies had been recognized, labeled and buried. We do know,
however, that the 1,250,000 people in the city on the night of the raid
had been reduced to 368,619 by the time it was over; and it seems
certain that the death roll must have greatly exceeded the 71,879 at
Hiroshima. Indeed, the German authorities were probably correct who, a
few days after the attack, put the total somewhere between 120,000 and
150,000."
http://198.62.75.1/www1/war/dresden1.html

This was a REAL holocaust.


Is Kissinger looking over his shoulder? REALLY? I don't think Kissinger cares at all. He's been possessed by demons for such a long time he can't remember what "conscience" is. And he KNOWS he will get away with it.
He's like the Romanian killer Ceauscescu; totally flabberghasted and surprised right until the moment of his execution, that a thing like that could even happen to a "God" like him. Only difference is that nothing IS going to happen to him: Kissinger the NWO Killer/Pedophile/Rapist is going to die of old age as opposed to Ceauscescu the Puppet-of-the-NWO who got executed when he didn't follow the NWO script.

[truebeliever]

I agree. He's probably a NWO man.

He constantly refers to "WE" must learn to stop killing each other. Perhaps his next line should be..."so give up the nation state and turn to a world government run by the U.N for safety".

Strange, can you remember ordering the destruction of Dresden or Tokyo? Can any of "us" remember starting a single war? How strange that "WE" must learn this when it is "THEY" who start them and send us off to die. What a complete ignorent fuck! McNamara is the epitamy of the sick, 'normal' beauracrat unwilling to face what he's done.

Who needs devils and swirling beasts of Satan when the evil we face comes in the form of kindly old men who were just doing what they were told.

Perhaps the Hague cut him a deal.."go all out for total disarmament and the end of the nation state and we'll not ask for your head ala, Milosovich/Kissinger".

May all like him rot in hell. He should repent. Break down and shed real tears of regret instead of the pathetic crocdile tears he sheds on occassion in the doco.

Maybe you're right Drak, on reflection it's probably all part of the plan to sell the NWO. In fact as I type it seems blatently so.

Still, i guess they cant kill everyone instantly. Maybe he's just an old fart trembling at the thought of death and judgement.

[Draken]

truebeliever wrote:
Strange, can you remember ordering the destruction of Dresden or Tokyo? Can any of "us" remember starting a single war? How strange that "WE" must learn this when it is "THEY" who start them and send us off to die. What a complete ignorent fuck! McNamara is the epitamy of the sick, 'normal' beauracrat unwilling to face what he's done.

Who needs devils and swirling beasts of Satan when the evil we face comes in the form of kindly old men who were just doing what they were told.

Bureaucrats "just doing what they're told"; "just following orders".

Well that's just it, isn't it? That's what I've said elsewhere in regards to what Evil actually is and "who" Lucifer really is: Evil is Ego In Charge; Slave To Your Senses. That is how Evil/Lucifer manifests - IN THE ACTIONS OF MAN. Have you ever experienced an "evil" animal? An "evil" plant? Animals follow their instinct for survival; plants... well. ;-)

Man has the potential and the choice to either be Godlike or Luciferlike.


Still, i guess they cant kill everyone instantly. Maybe he's just an old fart trembling at the thought of death and judgement.

If he was honest he wouldn't have to SHOW THE WORLD he's got a bad conscience; he wants us to feel sorry for him, give him that warm, fuzzy feeling, to say to him "it's OK, Bob. We understand. You did it for US."
It's all TALK and absolutely NO WALK. "Walk" in this case would be to freely give himself up to be tried and DEMANDING to get convicted and punished. That would be the only way for him to get any shred of respect from me. But then, he's got no backbone; the last people on this earth to have had a backbone were the kamikaze pilots he dismisses in the documetary. They at least had SOME shrapnel of the nobility, honor and pride the samurai tradition stood for.

Fucking animal. Actually, like I said, ANIMALS don't behave like that. He never met anyone who said to him "you're evil and you'll pay with your soul". All he ever heard in his entire life was "yes, mr McNamara, yes, sugar daddy, yes, yes, YES!"

[this]

Hmm Draken, my impression is that McNamara just isn't/wasn't in the loop. He may be/was in CFR but I think he bought into things, and was not an orchestrator. By admitting his war crimes I think he is saying that God will serve him the judgement since society hasn't. Of course he may be really evil, but I suspect that those folks are not showing their faces.

I think one of your links (ratical.org) that I read a while ago goes into detail of how McNamara during the Vietnam would be handed a dossier minutes before he would present it to Kennedy by some secret shadow government. The ratical site says it's the CIA, but it's probably Rockefeller inspired (Standard Oil - see brojon.org links how Vietnam war was to scout oil deposits off Vietnam)

McNamara says that he was pulled from academia to go into business and then pulled into the Kennedy cabinet, and so I think this could be the case. Even though he was a very smart guy capable of rationalizing on his feet the deeds that were done in his name, he was not (apparently) of the elite. His story is that he came from a poor family and was very competitive scholastically. As Henry says today about a University prof in the UK, McNamara was probably a "useful idiot".

Maybe at this point he is just telling all he knows (on the Vietnam war), and as for nuclear disarmament - like any of the Commie goals/ dialectic stuff there's an element of truth. Nuclear abolition is the only sane way forward for humanity. Let's see the Communists/Rockefellers do it! Call their bluff.

[this]

I posted the following link on a thread called "Oil" which is somewhere on the site. If you punch in Oil in the search engine you don't get it though 8-)

McNamara isn't even mentioned in this chapter...

http://www.brojon.org/frontpage/bj050701-3.html

“In the 1920's an insider secret became known to a few people. It was published in an exhaustive world resources survey book written by a renowned world-traveling geologist named Hoover, who later became a US President. Not many copies were printed and few people read the book. The secret was that one of the world's largest potential oil fields ran along the coast of the South China Sea right off French Indo-China, now known as Viet Nam. But in the 1920's the method of deep sea oil drilling had not yet been developed.”

[truebeliever]

Vietnam is tapping into that field from land and doing well with Russian deep drilling help.

There is oil EVERYWHERE.

AUSTRALIA and AFRICA are ABSOLOUTLY, POSITIVELY swimming in the stuff. Kept aside in the controlled cartel world of oil.

A giant/HUGE gas field is being opened up on the West coast of Oz near a town called Carnarvon. It is well south of the already online GIGANTIC fields of the North WEST of Oz.

I tell you, Ruppert and his peak oil ilk are so full of twaddle it's not funny.

When i repeat his stuff to people in the game they break into fits of laughter.

Who can say with McNamara. In the end he was a close confidant of Kennedy and was instramental in writing up the NSAM getting the troops out before being stopped by Johnson after the assassination.

As for nukes? We hav'nt had a world war for 60 years. Lets keep em. Or maybe with such dangerous things we'll need a one world government to administer them as "WE" are so dangerous and start all these wars.

What a scam. THIS, you damn Commie Kanadian! :-D

[this]

On to our plans, are you TB? All is revealed in http://cwd.ptbcanadian.com/index2.html

--------

There's a magazine called the Bulletin that purports to be interested in preventing a nuclear war. It seems that they are participating in shielding Russian motives from the press and public. Although I can't find a specific article at the moment, I recently read one of theirs that hinted that Russia would occasionally offer real steps towards nuclear disarmament but the US would not go along. I suspect the game is that the Russians know their bluff won't be called.

Take a look at the historical disinfo regarding Communism in this article, an excerpt:

http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=nd95moore

"As surprising as Reagan's agreement to the INF Treaty may have been, it was even more startling to learn that the Soviet Union, long victimized by constipated and unimaginative leadership, finally had a top man--Mikhail Gorbachev--with the wit and the imagination and the courage to finally end the Cold War. The editorial in the January-February 1988 Bulletin said:

"For the first time the United States and the Soviet Union have agreed to dismantle and ban a whole category of nuclear weapons. They have crafted provisions that enable each to be confident that the other will comply with the treaty's terms. The agreement they have fashioned can serve as a model for future accords. That agreement would not have been possible without the leadership displayed by General Secretary Mikhail Gorbachev and President Ronald Reagan. We applaud them."

The minute hand was moved back to six minutes to midnight.


The great melt

The Berlin Wall came down at the end of 1989, symbolizing the end of the Cold War. Gorbachev had long realized that the Soviet Empire, which had rested on a foundation of fear and intimidation for more than four decades, could not be sustained. His goals were to shore up Soviet society, to repair the collapsing Soviet economic machine, to introduce democratic reforms, to end Soviet isolation from the Western world, and to bring new life--"new thinking"--to the desperately outdated Communist Party.

Meanwhile, new thinking was far advanced in Poland, Czechoslovakia, Hungary, East Germany, Romania. Men and women who had danced tepidly to Moscow's balalaika since the end of World War II would do it no longer. Revolution was in the air from the North Sea to the Black Sea. And Gorbachev was not about to send tanks into Eastern Europe, as his predecessors had, to keep the East Bloc nations in line. The editorial in the April 1990 Bulletin remarked:

"Now, 44 years after Winston Churchill's 'Iron Curtain' speech, the myth of monolithic communism had been shattered for all to see, the ideological conflict known as the Cold War is over, and the risk of global nuclear war being ignited in Europe is significantly diminished. . . ."

The minute hand was moved back to 10 minutes to midnight."


More articles on Russia, some listing it's armamments:
http://www.thebulletin.org/article.php?art_ofn=ma00postol
http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=ja03norris
http://www.thebulletin.org/article_nn.php?art_ofn=ja04norris

[Draken]

THIS! MAN!

The articles you quote - I've never heard such rubbish in my entire LIFE! I'm sure you know, but I just can't read it without reacting: what a fucking fairy tale!!!

I'll get back on this one for sure, when I have five minutes over to thrash the whole illusion. ;-)

[this]

They have an Einstein fund too you can add to. If ol' Alfie gave them dough you know it's legit...

"The Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists was founded in 1945 to educate people worldwide about global security issues, especially the continuing dangers posed by nuclear weapons, enabling citizens and governments to make truly informed policy choices. The Bulletin fulfills this mission by publishing reliable and accessible information in our bimonthly Magazine and on the internet, by maintaining and publicizing our symbolic minutes-to-midnight "Doomsday Clock," and by conducting outreach to the policy community and wider public, including informed commentary on pressing issues involving science and national security."


Check out their board of sponsors. A whole raft of scientists who know nothing about politics! Okay, I'm being hard on them, their hearts are in the right place. I think it's safe to say they all would feel warm and cuddly with a one world gov't. What a shock they'd be in for if that came to pass.

[nomad]

Truebeliever ... Ruppert is working for the NWO

we can bury him alive with all the documents we

have of evidence to the contrary of peak oil ...

and their is nothing fossil about it ... that

label was created to imply extinction or of a

limited amount.

[Draken]

But all Ruppert's material on global drug trading is genuine, in my opinion.

[truebeliever]

I agree. I dont know whats happened to him.

I still use "Truth & Lies Of 9-11" as a reference for people new to the subject.

[Draken]

I tell you what I think happened:

they launched Ruppert and let him uncover the whole drug dealing CIA, knowing nothing will happen. The point was to give him credibility and the only way was to let him deliver genuine true information.

Later, when he's made enough money and he's hooked, they use him to deliver the disinfo they want to be delivered, knowingly or unknowingly - it doesn't matter. It's irrelevant.