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BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 02:21 PM
That 911 was an inside job.

There is no evidence.

That the Twin Towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition.

There is no evidence unless someone who actually wired the Twin Towers for demolition; unless someone who planted the bombs inside the towers; unless someone within the military who has knowledge that a stand down was ordered, etc., etc., etc. comes forward with undisputeable evidence and not merely their words.

Not one man, but many.

Until then, folks, we are conspiracy theorists and I'm happy to say so!

George_Bush
09-15-2007, 02:34 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
That 911 was an inside job.

There is no evidence.

That the Twin Towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition.

There is no evidence unless someone who actually wired the Twin Towers for demolition; unless someone who planted the bombs inside the towers; unless someone within the military who has knowledge that a stand down was ordered, etc., etc., etc. comes forward with undisputeable evidence and not merely their words.

Not one man, but many.

Until then, folks, we are conspiracy theorists and I'm happy to say so!

That 911 was an outside job.

There is no evidence.

That the Twin Towers collapsed due to airplane impact.

There is no evidence unless someone who actually flew the airplanes; unless someone who proves that there were no bombs inside the towers; unless someone within al quaeda who has knowledge that an attact was ordered, etc., etc., etc., comes forward with undisputeable evidence and not mearely their words.

Not one man, but many.

Until then, folks, the FBI are conspiracy theorists and I'm happy to say so!

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 02:36 PM
There is no evidence that the Twin Towers collapsed due to the impact of aircraft.

George_Bush
09-15-2007, 02:38 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
There is no evidence that the Twin Towers collapsed due to the impact of aircraft.

There is evidence that the Twin Towers collapsed due to controlled explosives.

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 03:44 PM
Unless there are individuals who attest to their involvement in OPERATION 911, everything else is considered here-say and a conspiracy theory.

The same as JFK.

All that we saw with our naked eye; all that occurred that is illogical and defies the laws of nature and realm of possibilities that brings us to the conclusion that 911 was an inside job, will always and forever remain a conspiracy.

The same as JFK.

True as it may be, but here-say.

Unless there is convincing and compelling witness testimony.

George_Bush
09-15-2007, 03:56 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
Unless there are individuals who attest to their involvement in OPERATION 911, everything else is considered here-say and a conspiracy theory.

False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law.


BlueAngel wrote:
The same as JFK.

False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law.


BlueAngel wrote:
All that we saw with our naked eye; all that occurred that is illogical and defies the laws of nature and realm of possibilities that brings us to the conclusion that 911 was an inside job, will always and forever remain a conspiracy.

The same as JFK.

Again, False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law and is in itself a logical contradiction.


BlueAngel wrote:
True as it may be, but here-say.

You mean "HEARSAY"?


BlueAngel wrote:
Unless there is convincing and compelling witness testimony.

There is convincing and compelling witness testimony. There are multiple credible witnesses. Their testimony is compelling. And their testimony is convincing because it matches. This is called "Having a case." This has moved beyond theory into the realm of testimony, and demonstrative evidentiary proof.

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 04:08 PM
George_Bush wrote:

BlueAngel wrote:
Unless there are individuals who attest to their involvement in OPERATION 911, everything else is considered here-say and a conspiracy theory.

False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law.


BlueAngel wrote:
The same as JFK.

False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law.


BlueAngel wrote:
All that we saw with our naked eye; all that occurred that is illogical and defies the laws of nature and realm of possibilities that brings us to the conclusion that 911 was an inside job, will always and forever remain a conspiracy.

The same as JFK.

Again, False-premise and unsubstantiated assertion -- your approach would not stand up in a court of law and is in itself a logical contradiction.


BlueAngel wrote:
True as it may be, but here-say.

You mean "HEARSAY"?


BlueAngel wrote:
Unless there is convincing and compelling witness testimony.

There is convincing and compelling witness testimony. There are multiple credible witnesses. Their testimony is compelling. And their testimony is convincing because it matches. This is called "Having a case." This has moved beyond theory into the realm of testimony, and demonstrative evidentiary proof.

Yes, I mean hearsay.

I understand that you have debunked my false premise and unsubstantiated assertion and that this most serious matter of National Security has moved from beyond theory into the realm of testimony and can now be referred to as "having a case."

If this is the current status, I would not be in any courthouse, nor has it ever been my desire to hold the government harmless, attempting to discredit any credible witness who could supply evidence and compelling testimony as to 911 being an inside job.

To the contrary.

redrat11
09-15-2007, 05:37 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
That 911 was an inside job.

There is no evidence.

That the Twin Towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition.

There is no evidence unless someone who actually wired the Twin Towers for demolition; unless someone who planted the bombs inside the towers; unless someone within the military who has knowledge that a stand down was ordered, etc., etc., etc. comes forward with undisputeable evidence and not merely their words.

Not one man, but many.

Until then, folks, we are conspiracy theorists and I'm happy to say so!


There is indicative evidence that your a dis-informationist, and there is PLENTY of EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY to refute your assumptions about the twin towers demolition.

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 06:45 PM
RedRat said:

"There is indicative evidence that your a dis-informationist, and there is PLENTY of EYEWITNESS TESTIMONY to refute your assumptions about the twin towers demolition."

My assumptions about the Twin Towers has always been that they crumbled due to a controlled demolition.

Please read what I write before you make unfounded accusations.

So, you're saying there are eyewitnesses who can refute my assumption that the twin towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition and explosion?

You don't believe this to be the case?

What do you think happened?

The planes brought the towers down?

There is no evidence that I am a disinformation agent.

For you to make such a statement only shows your ignorance.

You inject yourself into this very important topic merely to call me a name.

As if the people who know me and read what I write and who aren't disinformation agents, like, perhaps, yourself, would even contemplate that I am.

Let me recap, RedRat.

I challenged the "evidence" theory as to 911 being an inside job and holding water as far as a court case might be concerned.

There was plenty of evidence that JFK was assassinated by the "secret government," and 45 years later, they're still in power.

I'm not the one who works in a law firm. Those who do can enlighten as to whether or not it has moved from theory to "having a case."

I was being skeptical, RedRat.

Not because I wouldn't want this to be the outcome, of course, but because I wondered if all of the "eyewitness" accounts and other testimony were compelling enough to bring this matter to justice, perhaps.

PLEASE READ:

Yes, I mean hearsay.

I understand that you have debunked my false premise and unsubstantiated assertion and that this most serious matter of National Security has moved from beyond theory into the realm of testimony and can now be referred to as "having a case."

If this is the current status, I would not be in any courthouse, nor has it ever been my desire to hold the government harmless, attempting to discredit any credible witness who could supply evidence and compelling testimony as to 911 being an inside job.

To the contrary.

redrat11
09-15-2007, 07:57 PM
BlueAngel wrote:






What do you think happened?




Oh, you were being 'skeptical' were you? and you think that there will never be a CRIMINAL INDICTMENT of the real perpetrators behind 911.



Well, what I think is irrelevant and NON-SENSE CONSPIRATORIAL JIBBERISH. But, I will write what I think went down for all to ponder.


Well basically the ZIONIST have had a magor problem corralling the Mid-East, namely in the form of Islam, (whether Radical, or Moderate.) therefore, the conspiracy to "corral" the M.East begins way back many thousands of years, one must begin to understand Islam in order to fully appreciate the Grand Conspiracy before them, I for one do not fully understand that Religion, therefore I make no assumptions about it, but, what I do know is that the JEWISH ZION/SATANIST of the world have for many millennia put a 'plan' forward in order to enslave the world under there authority, and there authority alone.


In order to grasp the nature of the beast, (ZION/Masonic/Tendencies) one must be immersed in Biblical literature, there we see the REAL TIMELINE of human history, as recorded by men of GODS choosing, You may say well, what does that have to do with the WTC being blown to bits?


It has everthing to do with a DISTORTION of the timeline laid out by the creator of this universe, you see it has been completely hijacked by a ENEMY OF GOD CALLED SATAN, this very manipulative angelic being decided to "challenge" the creator GOD word for word, thus, with it's actions it and it's followers of like minded beings decided to overthrow the perfect Kingdom of GOD.


And it is there with that action by Lucifer, that human beings have been kept in perpetual servitude with the EVIL ONE LUCIFER. And thus as we move along the timeline of humanity (remembering it has been hijacked,) we find ourselves at the mercy of the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, or, to be perfectly blunt, JEWISH PYSCHOPATHS running the world into the pits of hell.


Now as we study the many organizations under there control, we come to see that the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) plays a HUGE part in there quest for global domination, one cannot deny the ABSOLUTE POWER being weilded by a small handful (perhaps fewer than 10,000) of these SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN pawns.


So, you say again, WHAT IN THE HECK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE WTC BEING BLOWN TO BITS?


WEll, don't you see? it is part of the bigger, as yet unfulfilled agenda of LUCIFER, and that is to push the world into a GLOBAL ORDER under there umbrella, many, many, as yet atrocities await humanity for the DEVIL knows his time is short.

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 08:22 PM
RedRat said:

Oh, you were being 'skeptical' were you? and you think that there will never be a CRIMINAL INDICTMENT of the real perpetrators behind 911.

That's what I said. I was being skeptical. Do you consider that a crime? To the contrary, unless it moves to "this is a case," there will never be an indictment of the perpetrators.

Well, what I think is irrelevant and NON-SENSE CONSPIRATORIAL JIBBERISH. But, I will write what I think went down for all to ponder.

Well basically the ZIONIST have had a magor problem corralling the Mid-East, namely in the form of Islam, (whether Radical, or Moderate.) therefore, the conspiracy to "corral" the M.East begins way back many thousands of years, one must begin to understand Islam in order to fully appreciate the Grand Conspiracy before them, I for one do not fully understand that Religion, therefore I make no assumptions about it, but, what I do know is that the JEWISH ZION/SATANIST of the world have for many millennia put a 'plan' forward in order to enslave the world under there authority, and there authority alone.

In order to grasp the nature of the beast, (ZION/Masonic/Tendencies) one must be immersed in Biblical literature, there we see the REAL TIMELINE of human history, as recorded by men of GODS choosing, You may say well, what does that have to do with the WTC being blown to bits?

It has everthing to do with a DISTORTION of the timeline laid out by the creator of this universe, you see it has been completely hijacked by a ENEMY OF GOD CALLED SATAN, this very manipulative angelic being decided to "challenge" the creator GOD word for word, thus, with it's actions it and it's followers of like minded beings decided to overthrow the perfect Kingdom of GOD.

And it is there with that action by Lucifer, that human beings have been kept in perpetual servitude with the EVIL ONE LUCIFER. And thus as we move along the timeline of humanity (remembering it has been hijacked,) we find ourselves at the mercy of the SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN, or, to be perfectly blunt, JEWISH PYSCHOPATHS running the world into the pits of hell.

Now as we study the many organizations under there control, we come to see that the MIC (Military Industrial Complex) plays a HUGE part in there quest for global domination, one cannot deny the ABSOLUTE POWER being weilded by a small handful (perhaps fewer than 10,000) of these SYNAGOGUE OF SATAN pawns.

So, you say again, WHAT IN THE HECK DOES THIS HAVE TO DO WITH THE WTC BEING BLOWN TO BITS?

WEll, don't you see? it is part of the bigger, as yet unfulfilled agenda of LUCIFER, and that is to push the world into a GLOBAL ORDER under there umbrella, many, many, as yet atrocities await humanity for the DEVIL knows his time is short.

-----------------------------------------------

So, as far as you're concerned all of this is LUCIFER's plan.

Is he a living, breathing entity in your mind?

Do you and this LUCIFER communicate?

redrat11
09-15-2007, 08:36 PM
The Mind Of Satan



Satanic (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3303&forum=2&PHPSESSID=89d21967912e56744cd754ecbb72911c)

BlueAngel
09-15-2007, 09:00 PM
redrat11 wrote:
The Mind Of Satan

Satanic (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=3303&forum=2&PHPSESSID=89d21967912e56744cd754ecbb72911c)

You referred to Lucifer as the one who is in control of current events as if you recognized him as controlling those who control the planet.

As if he were a living, breathing entity.

That ain't right, my friend.

redrat11
09-15-2007, 09:36 PM
Physics 101


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n-nT-luFIw&mode=related&search=

http://www.texemarrs.com/hot_zone_alert_video_2.htm

redrat11
09-15-2007, 10:04 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EE9TLgCVLBM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J0Qu6eyyr4c&mode=related&search=

BlueAngel
09-16-2007, 07:38 AM
Keep it coming!

Kaje23
01-16-2009, 02:46 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong BlueAngel, but I took your post as a clever use of irony. It seems to me that many of your posts and replies that are attacked by most often the same group of people aren't meant to be taken literally.

At least your getting some links posted on here that will point people to some info (and hopefully more) ... which unbeknownst to the poster, was exactly your point.

I'm new to this forum but I'm glad to see your replies (hehe, I know I may be a minority) and the irrational responses to them.

BlueAngel
01-16-2009, 05:38 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong BlueAngel, but I took your post as a clever use of irony. It seems to me that many of your posts and replies that are attacked by most often the same group of people aren't meant to be taken literally.

At least your getting some links posted on here that will point people to some info (and hopefully more) ... which unbeknownst to the poster, was exactly your point.

I'm new to this forum but I'm glad to see your replies (hehe, I know I may be a minority) and the irrational responses to them.

This thread is an example of the clever use of irony; however, many of my posts are to be taken literally; others to provoke critical and deductive reasoning and yet others to point out the obvious holes in some thoughts/ideas regarding conspiracies which are posted on this site and, many times, IMO are nothing more than scare tactics.

Welcome aboard.

tpomerian01
02-10-2009, 07:52 PM
Why don't you change the name of this forum to " The personal views of Blue Angel"

BlueAngel
02-10-2009, 08:41 PM
Why don't you change the name of this forum to " The personal views of Blue Angel"

Hey, that's a great idea.

I'll contact the webmaster and see if we can get it done.

P.S. There is no space between the last letter, "e," in the word Blue and the first letter, "A," in the word Angel.

My "PEN" name, BlueAngel, is one word, not two.

Specifically designed this way.

Hanso
06-24-2009, 04:12 PM
There is evidence that the Twin Towers collapsed due to controlled explosives.


There is?!! In that case...RUN, RUN FOR YOUR LIVES

IT'S A CONSPIRACY!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v506/Qweenie/2q8st8l.gif

EireEngineer
10-09-2009, 02:41 PM
There is no evidence that the Twin Towers collapsed due to the impact of aircraft.

Split hairs much? It was the resulting fire, not the impact, that caused the collapse.

BlueAngel
10-09-2009, 07:09 PM
Split hairs much? It was the resulting fire, not the impact, that caused the collapse.

The impact of the aircraft is what has been reported as having precipitated the fires.

So, no, I don't split hairs much.

EireEngineer
10-09-2009, 11:14 PM
You should upgrade to Mozilla Firefox. It has a built in spell checker, which helps us left brained folk out a ton. If it wasnt fire, what do you think brought down the towers, out of curiosity?

BlueAngel
10-09-2009, 11:51 PM
You should upgrade to Mozilla Firefox. It has a built in spell checker, which helps us left brained folk out a ton. If it wasnt fire, what do you think brought down the towers, out of curiosity?

Wired demolitions.

The planes crashing into the buildings and bursting into flames would be presented as evidence for the collapse of the towers.

EireEngineer
10-10-2009, 08:39 AM
The impact of the aircraft is what has been reported as having percipitated the fires.

So, no, I don't split hairs much.

Do you mean Precipitated, Ms impeccable.

BlueAngel
10-11-2009, 11:18 PM
Do you mean Precipitated, Ms impeccable.

I don't spilt hairs over spelling, but, apparently, you do because that's all you've got.

My godoness.

You hvea casaued my punishemnt and donwfall bty poiningting out that mis-splleing.

What sallh I do?

Maybe go back and check all of your posts for grammatical errors?

Nah.

Beter things to do.

I'm certain I've conveyed that which I intended whehter I mis-speclled precipitated or not.

BlueAngel
10-11-2009, 11:33 PM
I corrected my original post which contained the mis-spelled word PERCIPITATED to PRECIPITATED.

Which, thank goodness, you pointed out

Does this help you ot undrestand the contnet of my post any bettrte?

If not, let me konw and I'll see what else I can od.

I would apprciate it, if you would kindly read every psot I've written on the froum and let me know if there are nay oher gramamtical eroris.

Thaningk yoi in adavance.

BlueAngel
10-12-2009, 01:05 AM
Split hairs much? It was the resulting fire, not the impact, that caused the collapse.

Your logic/theory is flawed.

If not for the impact there would have been no fires.

albie
10-12-2009, 04:17 AM
The impact would probably have contributed to the weakening of the structure.
I've seen no compelling evidence that 911 was a controlled demolition. And I HAVE looked into it btw.

EireEngineer
10-13-2009, 08:24 AM
The impact would probably have contributed to the weakening of the structure.
I've seen no compelling evidence that 911 was a controlled demolition. And I HAVE looked into it btw.
Maybe you can answer this for me then. As a former Combat Engineer I have some experience with demolitions. How could they have gotten all of the explosives required into the building, installed them behind yards of drywall and piping, ran the detcord to each charge, and done all of it without anybody in the building noticing? And dont use the word thermite because it would take twice as much of that as simple C4 to do the same job. I could almost buy into this theory except for this one glitch.

iHIMself™
10-13-2009, 04:56 PM
Interesting. Not sure about the Lucifer thing.

There is mountains of irrefutable evidence, witness testimony, as well as past accusations that can be assimilated into a devastating court case. But it will never happen.

Just like JFK. The evidence is there, but so what?? Who's pressing charges??

They haven't even officially acknowledged Lee Harvey Oswald was not a lone assassin. Regardless of the Zapruder film, proving beyond any reasonable doubt, the fatal shot came from the front of the motorcade, and not behind, where Oswald was supposedly shooting from.

The evidence is there, but so what?? Who's pressing charges??

Forget the charges, who is acknowledging, OFFICIALLY ACKNOWLEDGING, Lee Harvey Oswald, if at all, was not the lone assassin, or that the Twin Towers could not have collapsed by fire? That building No.7 could not possibly have been 'pulled' within hours??

The evidence is there, but so what?? What are you going to do about it??

In your face, even.

What are you going to do about it??

Nothing. What can you do about it??

iHIMself™
10-13-2009, 05:02 PM
As a former Combat Engineer I have some experience with demolitions. How could they have gotten all of the explosives required into the building, installed them behind yards of drywall and piping, ran the detcord to each charge, and done all of it without anybody in the building noticing?

EireEngineer



Actually, there are witness testimonies that account for high level security personnel, along with what were thaught to be tradesmen, frequently entering and exiting the buildings core interior, for an approximate two month period prior to 911.

BlueAngel
10-13-2009, 08:18 PM
Maybe you can answer this for me then. As a former Combat Engineer I have some experience with demolitions. How could they have gotten all of the explosives required into the building, installed them behind yards of drywall and piping, ran the detcord to each charge, and done all of it without anybody in the building noticing? And dont use the word thermite because it would take twice as much of that as simple C4 to do the same job. I could almost buy into this theory except for this one glitch.

As you say, you are not a DEMOLITION EXPERT, but a former COMBAT ENGINEER with some experience in demolitions.

So, this brings me back to your claim to know all about ROCKET SCIENCE because your father worked for Martin Marietta.

EireEngineer
10-14-2009, 08:20 AM
As you say, you are not a DEMOLITION EXPERT, but a former COMBAT ENGINEER with some experience in demolitions.

So, this brings me back to your claim to know all about ROCKET SCIENCE because your father worked for Martin Marietta.

Set up strawmen much, BA? Yes, I do understand basic physics, so to you that makes me a rocket scientist. I paid for my degree blowing up minefields and cutting the barrels off tanks in Iraq with explosives, but to you that makes it seem like I am claiming to be a DEMOLITIONS EXPERT? No, but I do have some idea as to the scope of the task I asked about, which is why it seems like it would be awfully difficult to rig all of the cutting charges required, not to mention fishing det-cord all over the place to set them off, without anyone noticeing. Unless they have somehow figured out to do a controlled demolition without having to resort to blocks of C-4 actually touching superstructure.

Oh...and please quote me where exactly I claimed to know ALL about rocket science. My guess is that you know ALL about ding dongs.

EireEngineer
10-14-2009, 08:28 AM
EireEngineer



Actually, there are witness testimonies that account for high level security personnel, along with what were thaught to be tradesmen, frequently entering and exiting the buildings core interior, for an approximate two month period prior to 911.

Were they bringing a lot of wooden crates into the building too? Mind you this was only a thumbnail sketch but I did a sample demo calculation on cutting 32 beams, one cut per floor, over only 6 floors, and came up with 4,800 lbs of C4 required, 5,400 of thermite, or nearly 10,000 of TNT. Obviously these numbers are in the keeping of reality. It IS possible to bring two and a half tons of explosive in without anyone noticing, and I am sure a trained expert could halve the amount of explosive needed just with improved location and tamping. However, still seems like there would be a lot of rigging being done in tight spaces where people are going to notice you banging around.

iHIMself™
10-14-2009, 09:21 AM
It IS possible to bring two and a half tons of explosive in without anyone noticing, and I am sure a trained expert could halve the amount of explosive needed just with improved location and tamping. However, still seems like there would be a lot of rigging being done in tight spaces where people are going to notice you banging around.


Actually, there are witness testimonies that account for high level security personnel, along with what were thaught to be tradesmen, frequently entering and exiting the buildings core interior, for an approximate two month period prior to 911.

EireEngineer
10-14-2009, 02:59 PM
With large spools of detcord, prima-cord, and/or wooden crates?

Out of the Box
11-04-2009, 07:57 AM
Maybe you can answer this for me then. As a former Combat Engineer I have some experience with demolitions. How could they have gotten all of the explosives required into the building, installed them behind yards of drywall and piping, ran the detcord to each charge, and done all of it without anybody in the building noticing? And dont use the word thermite because it would take twice as much of that as simple C4 to do the same job. I could almost buy into this theory except for this one glitch.

First of all, we're talking about nano-thermite (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nano-thermite), not conventional thermite.

Second, it is perfectly plausible that bombs were planted by covert operatives during what was said to be maintenance after office hours. That way, the bombs could have been planted with only a handful of people being aware of it.

EireEngineer
11-04-2009, 02:31 PM
I still find it fairly unlikely that they could have managed to get the charges actually onto the steel, which is after all encased behind drywall, concrete, bathrooms, elevator shafts, etc. However, it certainly is a possibility.

Out of the Box
11-04-2009, 03:36 PM
I still find it fairly unlikely that they could have managed to get the charges actually onto the steel, which is after all encased behind drywall, concrete, bathrooms, elevator shafts, etc. However, it certainly is a possibility.

I know it seems hard to believe, but considering the evidence I see no other explanation for what happened to the WTC towers than the use of nano-thermite. The planes were used for the shock effect to lure the attention of the media and people all over the world so we could all see both towers collapse light on television.... What better pretext for war in this media-infested society than the live caption of mass murder, right?!?

EireEngineer
11-04-2009, 03:42 PM
I know it seems hard to believe, but considering the evidence I see no other explanation for what happened to the WTC towers than the use of nano-thermite. The planes were used for the shock effect to lure the attention of the media and people all over the world so we could all see both towers collapse light on television.... What better pretext for war in this media-infested society than the live caption of mass murder, right?!?
The fire-collape still seems far more likely to me. Besides the fact that Obama hasnt revealed any conspiracy, which would give him a huge amount of political capital.

Out of the Box
11-04-2009, 04:06 PM
The fire-collape still seems far more likely to me.

There is no way those buildings could have collapsed straight down at near free fall speed due to damage caused by the fires we've seen on the 9/11 footage. There's just no way. For an engineer, you should know better.

Besides the fact that Obama hasnt revealed any conspiracy, which would give him a huge amount of political capital.

It is clear to anyone with a yota of understanding of post-modern geopolitics that "democrats" and "republicans" are both instruments of the same capitalist oligarchy to fool the masses into believing they have political freedom and choice. Obama and Bush are puppets of the same people and follow the same agenda on all issues that truely matter (like Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Mexican border, ...). You don't become US president without blind obedience to the oligarchy (Lincoln and Kennedy brothers found out the hard way what happens if you change heart). What reason could Obama possibly have to reveal the conspiracy he's a part of?

EireEngineer
11-04-2009, 05:45 PM
There is no way those buildings could have collapsed straight down at near free fall speed due to damage caused by the fires we've seen on the 9/11 footage. There's just no way. For an engineer, you should know better.



It is clear to anyone with a yota of understanding of post-modern geopolitics that "democrats" and "republicans" are both instruments of the same capitalist oligarchy to fool the masses into believing they have political freedom and choice. Obama and Bush are puppets of the same people and follow the same agenda on all issues that truely matter (like Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Mexican border, ...). You don't become US president without blind obedience to the oligarchy (Lincoln and Kennedy brothers found out the hard way what happens if you change heart). What reason could Obama possibly have to reveal the conspiracy he's a part of?
I have looked at the evidence of a fire initiated collapse, and I am convinced that it the most likely candidate for the mechanism. Of course I am not a materials engineer, so if you have some evidence to the contrary I would love to hear it.

As for your assertion that there is an oligarchical conspiracy, you really are positing an untestable hypothesis, so I wont comment on it either way, except to say that it is unlikely.

BlueAngel
11-04-2009, 08:29 PM
It is clear to anyone with a yota of understanding of post-modern geopolitics that "democrats" and "republicans" are both instruments of the same capitalist oligarchy to fool the masses into believing they have political freedom and choice. Obama and Bush are puppets of the same people and follow the same agenda on all issues that truely matter (like Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Mexican border, ...). You don't become US president without blind obedience to the oligarchy (Lincoln and Kennedy brothers found out the hard way what happens if you change heart). What reason could Obama possibly have to reveal the conspiracy he's a part of?

This post is worthy of repeating.

EireEngineer
11-04-2009, 09:02 PM
This post is worthy of repeating.
It is cute isnt it?

BlueAngel
11-04-2009, 10:16 PM
It is cute isnt it?

I didn't quote Out of the Box's comment because it's cute.

I quoted it because it's SPOT ON!

BlueAngel
11-04-2009, 10:34 PM
It is clear to anyone with a yota of understanding of post-modern geopolitics that "democrats" and "republicans" are both instruments of the same capitalist oligarchy to fool the masses into believing they have political freedom and choice. Obama and Bush are puppets of the same people and follow the same agenda on all issues that truely matter (like Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, the Mexican border, ...). You don't become US president without blind obedience to the oligarchy (Lincoln and Kennedy brothers found out the hard way what happens if you change heart). What reason could Obama possibly have to reveal the conspiracy he's a part of?

I would change the first paragraph to reflect that NOT every "democrat and/or "republican" are instruments of the same capitalist oligarchy to fool the mases into believing that they have political freedom and choice, because I am one and/or the other and I do not have the power to fool the masses.

But, rather, you are referring to those persons, democrat and/or republican who are elected to the Presidency of the United State's of America and MANY of the members of Congress, but not all of the members of Congress.

The President of the United State's whether Democrat and/or Republican are puppets of the same people who comprise the Shadow government.

The Shadow government consists of those persons who are not elected officials, but who control the world through the ownership of BANKS, corporations, etc. (i.e., the Rothschild family).

They do this from behind the curtains without being in the public eye.

This is deliberate, of course, in order to avoid being exposed and the reason that they are referred to as the PUPPET MASTERS.

Out of the Box
11-05-2009, 03:07 AM
I have looked at the evidence of a fire initiated collapse, and I am convinced that it the most likely candidate for the mechanism.

How is this possible? How could fire somewhere in the middle of a skyscraper possibly make the building fall down straight down at near free fall speed? If fire truely was the cause, you'd expect the top of the building (above the roots of the fire) to break off at the weakest spot and the bottom (below the roots of the fire) to keep standing. And even if the entire building was on fire (which is contrary to the footage), fire could not have made the building come down the way it did.

As for your assertion that there is an oligarchical conspiracy, you really are positing an untestable hypothesis, so I wont comment on it either way, except to say that it is unlikely.

Whether you consider it unlikely, is irrelevant. It is not only testable but there's enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the West is dominated by a (predominantly Jewish) oligarchy of bankers and industrialists (centered around the Rothschild banking dynasty) who are responsible for most wars during the last 2 centuries and the current decline of the West (that Spengler already described as early as 1920). The philosophical origins of this oligarchy go way back to he Talmud and Kaballah, but it wasn't until the late 18th century they really developed into what they are today. For more info on this, read the literature of psychology professor Kevin MacDonald.

The French Revolution, the American Revolution and the Communist Revolution bear their signature and had the very purpose of replacing the old elite (arristocracy and clergy) by their own. On the influence of the oligarchy in late 19th and early 20th century USA, I can highly recommend Giselher Wirsing's "Der masslose Kontinent - Roosevelts Kampf um die Weltherrschaft".

albie
11-05-2009, 06:52 AM
I've heard all the above before. Yawn. Why don't you people go and hang out on debunking sites? Then you'd know that the last word is the debunkers on ALL this. Why pose the same boring five year old questions that have been debunked already?

I repeat;YAWN.

Out of the Box
11-05-2009, 07:03 AM
I've heard all the above before. Yawn. Why don't you people go and hang out on debunking sites?.

Been there, done that. I was part of the "skeptic forum (http://www.skepticforum.com/)" (using a different alias) for some time but got annoyed with the offensive behavior and narrowminded attitude of some of those so-called "sceptics" and left. I prefer to spend my time online among loony David Icke fans rather than among pretentious fools who like to believe they're ultra-sceptical and ultra-rational while buying into pretty much everything coming from a source they deem credible and using one strawman argument or insult after the other in an attempt to make their point.

Then you'd know that the last word is the debunkers on ALL this.

No it's not.

Why pose the same boring five year old questions that have been debunked already?

I should be asking you that.


Anyway, feel free to "debunk" some of the statements in my last post USING YOUR OWN WORDS. That might get interesting :D

albie
11-05-2009, 07:12 AM
Your experience seen through YOUR eyes.

Show me your threads.

The Skeptics Society Forum • Index page (http://www.skepticforum.com/)

Out of the Box
11-05-2009, 08:02 AM
Your experience seen through YOUR eyes.

Show me your threads.

I'd rather not link this user name to my old user name. I've drawn too much attention with that user name from "watchdog" organisations at various Internet communities (the Wiesenthal Center had me banned at Deviantart and some local organisation had me banned at a Dutch language forum). With this user name I can yet again fly under the radar and I like to keep it that way.

By the way, I forgot to mention I've also posted on RODOH (http://www.rodoh.us/) (the "debunker"'s alternative to CODOH (http://www.codoh.com/)).

EireEngineer
11-05-2009, 08:50 AM
How is this possible? How could fire somewhere in the middle of a skyscraper possibly make the building fall down straight down at near free fall speed? If fire truely was the cause, you'd expect the top of the building (above the roots of the fire) to break off at the weakest spot and the bottom (below the roots of the fire) to keep standing. And even if the entire building was on fire (which is contrary to the footage), fire could not have made the building come down the way it did.

There are many books and websites that precisely explain just how exactly this is possible, and in fact probable. The fact that you haven't looked at them is not conclusive proof that they dont exist. My half brother was badly injured at the Pentagon, and I spent a couple of years after 9/11 looking at ALL of the information, conspiracies included. I have to admit that a controlled demolition is certainly possible, but seems to me to be the more unlikely alternative.

Whether you consider it unlikely, is irrelevant. It is not only testable but there's enough evidence to prove beyond reasonable doubt that the West is dominated by a (predominantly Jewish) oligarchy of bankers and industrialists (centered around the Rothschild banking dynasty) who are responsible for most wars during the last 2 centuries and the current decline of the West (that Spengler already described as early as 1920). The philosophical origins of this oligarchy go way back to he Talmud and Kaballah, but it wasn't until the late 18th century they really developed into what they are today. For more info on this, read the literature of psychology professor Kevin MacDonald.

The French Revolution, the American Revolution and the Communist Revolution bear their signature and had the very purpose of replacing the old elite (arristocracy and clergy) by their own. On the influence of the oligarchy in late 19th and early 20th century USA, I can highly recommend Giselher Wirsing's "Der masslose Kontinent - Roosevelts Kampf um die Weltherrschaft".
Ah yes...I knew the antisemitism would come out at some point.

Out of the Box
11-05-2009, 09:14 AM
There are many books and websites that precisely explain just how exactly this is possible, and in fact probable.

There are also books and websites that explain just exactly how a hollow earth or a flat earth is possible and in fact probable. Just because some people attempt to explain the unexplainable with faulty logic, that doesn't mean they're right.

Please tell me in your own words how it is technically possible for fire to cause what happened and please refer to my objections to this theory while you're at it.

Ah yes...I knew the antisemitism would come out at some point.

It's so much easier to accuse the other of antisemitism than to respond to his arguments. Feel free to attempt to disprove the facts I presented to you. Why don't you read Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique (http://www.prometheism.net/library/CultureOfCritique.pdf) first before you continue to make such ignorant accusations?

EireEngineer
11-05-2009, 12:35 PM
There are also books and websites that explain just exactly how a hollow earth or a flat earth is possible and in fact probable. Just because some people attempt to explain the unexplainable with faulty logic, that doesn't mean they're right.

Please tell me in your own words how it is technically possible for fire to cause what happened and please refer to my objections to this theory while you're at it.



It's so much easier to accuse the other of antisemitism than to respond to his arguments. Feel free to attempt to disprove the facts I presented to you. Why don't you read Kevin MacDonald's Culture of Critique (http://www.prometheism.net/library/CultureOfCritique.pdf) first before you continue to make such ignorant accusations?
Its pretty simple really, and you would know exactly what I am talking about if you read anything besides the conspiracy pages. I am sure that BlueAngel will be trying to paint me as claiming to be an expert because of this (It is a favorite tactic of hers), but here goes.
1. The impact of the airliner likely removed much of the soft, foam fireproofing that was designed to protect the steel in the event of a conventional fire.
2. While the resulting fire, which was only temporarily fueled by the aviation fuel, certainly was not hot enough to "melt" steel, as CTs love to claim, it was certainly hot enough to weaken and expand the steel, causing the truss' to fail.
"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." In addition, the water lines servicing the sprinkler system were damaged by the impact, so there was essentially no mitigation taking place.
3. Once the structual elements were weakened, the floors began to pancake down onto each other. There was a certain amount of leaning as well, especially in the collapse of the south tower. As the collapse happened the top section of the building clearly leans over before coming down.

I will say that the theory of a controlled demolition is intriguing, but there are too many what ifs and special pleading required in it for it to work, in my opinion.

Out of the Box
11-05-2009, 02:32 PM
I1. The impact of the airliner likely removed much of the soft, foam fireproofing that was designed to protect the steel in the event of a conventional fire.

That doesn't seem too farfetched.

I2. While the resulting fire, which was only temporarily fueled by the aviation fuel, certainly was not hot enough to "melt" steel, as CTs love to claim, it was certainly hot enough to weaken and expand the steel, causing the truss' to fail.

The center core? The entire outer shell? I somehow find that hard to believe considering there's much of the building that appeared relatively untouched by the flames.

3. Once the structual elements were weakened, the floors began to pancake down onto each other. There was a certain amount of leaning as well, especially in the collapse of the south tower. As the collapse happened the top section of the building clearly leans over before coming down.

At what floor did the floors start pancaking? How could this have happened at near free fall speed? How could the central column and the outer shell all just collapse vertically? Considering the steel framework that was actually developed to be able to withstand the impact of an air plane (because one once flew into the Empire State Building by accident), I don't see how this was possible.

I will say that the theory of a controlled demolition is intriguing, but there are too many what ifs and special pleading required in it for it to work, in my opinion.

Controlled demolition is the only explanation that makes sense regarding the way WTC1,WTC2 and even more WTC7 collapsed.

EireEngineer
11-05-2009, 04:38 PM
That doesn't seem too farfetched.



The center core? The entire outer shell? I somehow find that hard to believe considering there's much of the building that appeared relatively untouched by the flames.



At what floor did the floors start pancaking? How could this have happened at near free fall speed? How could the central column and the outer shell all just collapse vertically? Considering the steel framework that was actually developed to be able to withstand the impact of an air plane (because one once flew into the Empire State Building by accident), I don't see how this was possible.



Controlled demolition is the only explanation that makes sense regarding the way WTC1,WTC2 and even more WTC7 collapsed.
You can assert that if you want, but it is only an assertion. Perhaps you should start from the null hypothesis and work forward instead of making tendentious claims? Controlled demolition is not the ONLY explanation, just one of a myriad of theories, and one I am not convinced by.

Out of the Box
11-06-2009, 02:45 AM
You can assert that if you want, but it is only an assertion.

I'm making assertions?? You're the one who comes up with a silly theory that by no means explains what happened to the inner core and outer shell, yet I'm the one making assertions?!?

Perhaps you should start from the null hypothesis and work forward instead of making tendentious claims? Controlled demolition is not the ONLY explanation, just one of a myriad of theories, and one I am not convinced by.

Controlled demolition is the ONLY explanation for why the inner core and outer shell collapsed. It is the ONLY explanation for the building collapsing at near free fall speed. There are only a myriad of theories when you ignore the actual architecture of the WTC towers (I'd expect more from someone who claims to have experience as an engineer).

If you believe I'm wrong, then please address my objections from the previous post (which you conveniently ignored by falsely accusing me of making "assertions"). That just might get interesting :D

EireEngineer
11-06-2009, 08:38 AM
I'm making assertions?? You're the one who comes up with a silly theory that by no means explains what happened to the inner core and outer shell, yet I'm the one making assertions?!?



Controlled demolition is the ONLY explanation for why the inner core and outer shell collapsed. It is the ONLY explanation for the building collapsing at near free fall speed. There are only a myriad of theories when you ignore the actual architecture of the WTC towers (I'd expect more from someone who claims to have experience as an engineer).

If you believe I'm wrong, then please address my objections from the previous post (which you conveniently ignored by falsely accusing me of making "assertions"). That just might get interesting :D
No, actually I didnt ignore the actual design when i did my thumbnail calc on how much explosive it would have taken. Now, naturally, I cant speak to the use of nano-thermite since it is not an explosive commonly used in demo applications...yet lol. I have looked at the fire-collapse scenario and to me it seems not only plausable, but in fact probable. Just because you dont understand it does not mean it is just as much a viable option. You assert the controlled demolition as being the ONLY viable option, which is is not, and I have conceded that it certainly is possible, however improbable I might think that it is. Calm down, have a smoke, and stop getting so wound up lol.

Out of the Box
11-09-2009, 02:12 AM
Then please explain what happened to the central columns? Why were traces of nano-thermite found (are you suggesting they were planted?)? Why did the buildings go straight down at near full speed rather than just break in the middle as one would expect?

Without an answer to these questions, I find it hard to take any option other than controlled demolition seriously.

EireEngineer
11-09-2009, 08:04 AM
Then please explain what happened to the central columns? Why were traces of nano-thermite found (are you suggesting they were planted?)? Why did the buildings go straight down at near full speed rather than just break in the middle as one would expect?

Without an answer to these questions, I find it hard to take any option other than controlled demolition seriously.
I would love to see the report where nano-thermite was found. Care to link?

Out of the Box
11-09-2009, 11:43 AM
I would love to see the report where nano-thermite was found. Care to link?

Here are two articles (by the same author) referring to the study (they use the term "aluminothermic explosives" instead of nanothermite, though) :
- Thermitic Pyrotechnics in the WTC Made Simple - Three Points of Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe that Anyone Can Understand (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/thermitics_made_simple.html)
- Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html)

Here's a video on the topic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o&feature=video_response

EireEngineer
11-09-2009, 08:18 PM
Here are two articles (by the same author) referring to the study (they use the term "aluminothermic explosives" instead of nanothermite, though) :
- Thermitic Pyrotechnics in the WTC Made Simple - Three Points of Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe that Anyone Can Understand (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/thermitics_made_simple.html)
- Explosives Found in World Trade Center Dust (http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html)

Here's a video on the topic.
YouTube - A danish scientist Niels Harrit, on nano-thermite in the WTC dust ( english subtitles ) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_tf25lx_3o&feature=video_response)

I would be more convinced if it wasnt a single source claim, but I will take a look.

Out of the Box
11-10-2009, 02:10 AM
I would be more convinced if it wasnt a single source claim, but I will take a look.

Let me know your findings. I'm curious :D

EireEngineer
11-10-2009, 08:34 AM
Let me know your findings. I'm curious :D
OK, will do. I should let you know what it would take to change my mind first, and you can tell me if it is reasonable.

1. The samples must have provenance. There must be some way to prove, within a reasonable doubt, that they are actually from ground zero, and not just cooked up in a garage.

2. The material must be capable of burning at the advertised temperature. This seems like the easiest one to satisfy, and it looks like it has.

3. There must be a feasible application method. Its no good if the explosive you are using is difficult or impossible to emplace, or blows up during the elevator ride.

I dont think it should be too hard to prove these, if this is indeed what happened. I will keep researching this week and let you know what I find by the weekend.

Out of the Box
11-10-2009, 08:43 AM
1. The samples must have provenance. There must be some way to prove, within a reasonable doubt, that they are actually from ground zero, and not just cooked up in a garage.

How do we do this? How can one prove the origin of these samples?

As you probably know, ground zero was locked down and "cleaned up" by FEMA soon after 9/11 making a thorough independent investigation at the site impossible (which is already suspicious). I'm not sure how these people got their samples, but it couldn't have been easy to obtain them (if they're genuine).

3. There must be a feasible application method. Its no good if the explosive you are using is difficult or impossible to emplace, or blows up during the elevator ride.

As a layman in this area, I have no way of judging this myself...

I dont think it should be too hard to prove these, if this is indeed what happened. I will keep researching this week and let you know what I find by the weekend.

Great. I'll be looking forward to your findings.

revolution60
11-11-2009, 10:03 PM
watch this, and then if you have the balls, watch the other 27 parts to this, and tell me that all of this is pure coincidence

YouTube - 911 Hidden in Hollywood - Part 1

albie
11-12-2009, 07:24 AM
Yawn. 27 parts? In other words' bombard yourself with lots of circumstantial evidence and feel your mind bowing to the pressure to believe!'

It's a truther mind f*ck. Samo.

EireEngineer
11-12-2009, 08:38 AM
watch this, and then if you have the balls, watch the other 27 parts to this, and tell me that all of this is pure coincidence

YouTube - 911 Hidden in Hollywood - Part 1 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1L1k8AxGe4g)
I might have looked at it if you were not so insulting in your post.

Out of the Box
11-12-2009, 09:11 AM
I might have looked at it if you were not so insulting in your post.

Insulting? I don't see where he's insulting anyone....

Now, I'm personally not convinced that references to prior knowledge of 9/11 would be hidden in Hollywood films (the evidence is quite poor and why would anyone do such a thing, really?), but you could at least TRY to give an argument rather than just ignore the whole film just because you're supposebly offended....

revolution60
11-12-2009, 09:58 AM
I might have looked at it if you were not so insulting in your post.

what's insulting, is you WONT look and open your mind a bit more!

i did not address that post specificly to anyone in particular

i'm merely stating that if you at least have the courage to watch all of them, and then come to a sane conclusion, keeping in mind the actual odds of these occurrences actually happening by "pure coincidence"

please people...wake up seriously...

EireEngineer
11-12-2009, 10:49 AM
what's insulting, is you WONT look and open your mind a bit more!

i did not address that post specificly to anyone in particular

i'm merely stating that if you at least have the courage to watch all of them, and then come to a sane conclusion, keeping in mind the actual odds of these occurrences actually happening by "pure coincidence"

please people...wake up seriously...
Nobody is asserting that anything that happened on 9/11 was pure coincidence, but we are debating the finer points of causation. Perhaps you need some coffee?

Out of the Box
11-12-2009, 11:23 AM
Nobody is asserting that anything that happened on 9/11 was pure coincidence, but we are debating the finer points of causation.

Anyone who's done the research is aware of the fact that 9/11 was an inside job. It just makes no sense that various Hollywood films hinted at it several years before and the evidence for this is pathetic. IMO, it is these sort of claims that make honest and genuine skeptics (not the self-righteous "debunker" kind who don't listen to reason at all) shun the 9/11 truth movement. I wonder who first started making such claims....

EireEngineer
11-12-2009, 12:30 PM
Its the conspiracy man....

Out of the Box
11-12-2009, 12:59 PM
Its the conspiracy man....

What conspirators would throw hint after hint at the public via a mass medium like film? I have no doubts about 9/11 being an inside job, but this whole "Hollywood sent us hidden messages" crap simply makes no sense.

BlueAngel
11-12-2009, 10:35 PM
Nobody is asserting that anything that happened on 9/11 was pure coincidence, but we are debating the finer points of causation. Perhaps you need some coffee?

I'm certain there are many people who assert that some of what happened on September 11, 2001 was pure coincidence.

Therefore, your statement that NOBODY is asserting that anything that happened on 9/11 was pure coincidence is inappropriate.

It would be more accurate if you indicated that "YOU" were not asserting that anything that happend on 911 was pure coincidence.

To summarize.

You should speak for yourself and not everyone else.

albie
11-13-2009, 03:41 AM
>>please people...wake up seriously...

Please people...believe all manner of bs...seriously, my mommy made me wear a woman's fedora for three years. It had a FLOWER on it! We must end this tyranny.

Out of the Box
11-13-2009, 03:59 AM
* yawn *

EireEngineer
11-13-2009, 08:44 AM
I'm certain there are many people who assert that some of what happened on September 11, 2001 was pure coincidence.

Therefore, your statement that NOBODY is asserting that anything that happened on 9/11 was pure coincidence is inappropriate.

It would be more accurate if you indicated that "YOU" were not asserting that anything that happend on 911 was pure coincidence.

To summarize.

You should speak for yourself and not everyone else.
OK, how about "Nobody here in this conversation between Outofthebox and Myself is saying that it is pure coincidence"? Would that make you happy, Ms Minge?

EireEngineer
11-13-2009, 08:53 AM
Insulting? I don't see where he's insulting anyone....

Now, I'm personally not convinced that references to prior knowledge of 9/11 would be hidden in Hollywood films (the evidence is quite poor and why would anyone do such a thing, really?), but you could at least TRY to give an argument rather than just ignore the whole film just because you're supposebly offended....
"watch this, and then if you have the balls". Funny...seemed like nobody in Europe had the "balls" to stop the Bosnian slaughter, but myself and a few thousand of my close friends did it in a few days. lol Damn us bastard Americans.

revolution60
11-13-2009, 09:33 PM
i have been through thousands and thousands of illuminati t.v. and movie spots, commercial spots, thousands of 9/11 coincidences in movies, shows, commercials.

it is IMPOSSIBLE by odds that its all pure coincidence.

and to the people saying that that would be the stupidest mistake to expose themselves with little hints throughout movies and such,

well i have this simple answer.

9/11 meant absolutely nothing to you before it happened didn't it?

you think just because they hide clever little hints like dates and such that you would figure out what it meant before it happened?

it only made sense watching it now, after "9/11" happened, and you became aware, that's exactly how they like it, as i said, they love rubbing it in your faces, because the majority will never wake up, the majority will never take the time to watch them all, the majority just can not accept it.

if you take the time to view thousands and thousands and study all the meanings and symbolism it is horrificly obvious

some of them are so painfully obvious , it is quite disturbing actually.http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/images/icons/icon13.gif

EireEngineer
11-14-2009, 07:35 AM
Its easy to see patterns in anything. Its called pareidolia, in your case coupled with obsessiveness.

Out of the Box
11-14-2009, 10:47 AM
Funny...seemed like nobody in Europe had the "balls" to stop the Bosnian slaughter

There was no Bosnian slaughter. That's just propaganda. It was just a typical conflict involving the control over a few pieces of land and Serbians were no more brutal than their enemies.

The whole NATO attack on Serbia was totally unnecessary and the greatest crime against humanity commited in Europe since WW2.

Its easy to see patterns in anything. Its called pareidolia, in your case coupled with obsessiveness.

Sometimes, when there appears to be a pattern there actually is a pattern...

EireEngineer
11-14-2009, 05:34 PM
There was no Bosnian slaughter. That's just propaganda. It was just a typical conflict involving the control over a few pieces of land and Serbians were no more brutal than their enemies.

The whole NATO attack on Serbia was totally unnecessary and the greatest crime against humanity commited in Europe since WW2.


You can say that all you want, free country and all. However, having been one of those M9 ACE drivers that had to expose and refill some of the mass graves, I will take a different position.

And the Serbs were more brutal and determined then their enemies. One of the games the Serbs like to play was to bet how many soldiers it would take to rape a girl to death. No choking...no strangulation... no beating... they would simply fuck them to death.

Out of the Box
11-15-2009, 08:22 AM
You can say that all you want, free country and all. However, having been one of those M9 ACE drivers that had to expose and refill some of the mass graves, I will take a different position.

Free country? Did I mention several of my viewpoints are punishable by law in my country? Did I mention one of my best friends (a kind and polite father of four and one of the most well-read individuals I know) was sent to prison for his efforts in trying to educate the "radical right" by selling controversial books and organising lectures with controversial speakers? Maybe then you'll understand why I refrain from speaking openly about my views anywhere besides in an intimate circle or anonymously on the internet...

In war people die. Can you be certain the people in those graves were just innocent bystanders? Can you be sure they were victims of ethnic cleansing? Things aren't always as they seem.

When American soldiers entered Dachau and stumbled on piles with thousands of bodies in 1945 they were certain the Germans had murdered them all and went on a killing spree brutally executing hundreds of Waffen-SS personal both from the camp and a nearby garrison totally in breach of the Geneva Convention, however it would soon become clear that the emaciated bodies found at Dachau were victims of a typhus pandemic that went out of control as German infrastructure was collapsing due to continuous allied carpet bombing. I highly encourage you watch the film The Relief of Belsen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0950502/) that deals with a similar situation in the Bergen-Belsen camp (experienced by British troops).

I can't comment on what you saw specificly, but when you're constantly told how evil the enemy is supposed to be it's quite easy to assume ethnic cleansing when it is uncalled for.

If the Serbs did indeed kill large numbers of unarmed civilians, maybe this was an act of revenge for similar crimes commited by the enemy. This sort of retaliation actions is common and one must understand the cause of a massacre before judging its nature.

Anyway, war is always cruel and brutal and during war there is rarely a "good side".

And the Serbs were more brutal and determined then their enemies.

Obviously. Serbs are a very proud people and the people fighting on the Serbian side were 100% convinced they were fighting a just cause, just like most of your comrades probably were.

One of the games the Serbs like to play was to bet how many soldiers it would take to rape a girl to death. No choking...no strangulation... no beating... they would simply fuck them to death.

First of all, American GIs also group raped women both in Europe and Asia. And that's just the American GIs. The Sovjet Red Army portrayed a sort of brutality beyond the comprehension of civilised humans, yet both American GIs and these monsters were supposed to be the "good guys" because they were fighting Hitler...

Second, an essential part of black propaganda is the dehumanisation of the enemy by means of attrocity stories. Back during WW1, the German soldiers were falsely accused of cutting off babies' hands and sticking babies up their bayonets. During the Gulf War, Iraqi soldiers were falsely accused of throwing babies out of their incubators. Both accusations are generally accepted as false today, however they were used to gain support of the war effort against respectively Germany and Iraq at the time.

So we need to first ask ourselves if these stories about group rapes by Serbian soldiers are true. If they are true, we must ask ourselves if this sort of crime was perpetrated by the Serbs alone or whether the "other side" was equally guilty of such crimes. Further, we must also ask ourselves why these soldiers were doing this. Often, group rape is a way of dehumanising the enemy as revenge for a (perceived) harm by the enemy towards their own people.

Anyway, you can't judge the conflict just by what you've seen and heard alone. In times of war, things are rarely as obvious as they seem and right and wrong are replaced by a huge shade of gray.

EireEngineer
11-15-2009, 04:41 PM
Free country? Did I mention several of my viewpoints are punishable by law in my country? Did I mention one of my best friends (a kind and polite father of four and one of the most well-read individuals I know) was sent to prison for his efforts in trying to educate the "radical right" by selling controversial books and organising lectures with controversial speakers? Maybe then you'll understand why I refrain from speaking openly about my views anywhere besides in an intimate circle or anonymously on the internet...Must be talking about your Holocaust denying?
Are there walls around Flanders patrolled by Einsatzgruppen keeping you in? Come on over. Hell, if its good enough for 21 million Mexicans, it cant be all bad here lol.

In war people die. Can you be certain the people in those graves were just innocent bystanders? Can you be sure they were victims of ethnic cleansing? Things aren't always as they seem.
Surly you cant be assuming that all of those un-uniformed women and children we found were lawful combatants or partisans? Thats laughable.

When American soldiers entered Dachau and stumbled on piles with thousands of bodies in 1945 they were certain the Germans had murdered them all and went on a killing spree brutally executing hundreds of Waffen-SS personal both from the camp and a nearby garrison totally in breach of the Geneva Convention, however it would soon become clear that the emaciated bodies found at Dachau were victims of a typhus pandemic that went out of control as German infrastructure was collapsing due to continuous allied carpet bombing. I highly encourage you watch the film The Relief of Belsen (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0950502/) that deals with a similar situation in the Bergen-Belsen camp (experienced by British troops).
Ah yes, the holocaust denier syndrom. yawn

I can't comment on what you saw specificly, but when you're constantly told how evil the enemy is supposed to be it's quite easy to assume ethnic cleansing when it is uncalled for.

If the Serbs did indeed kill large numbers of unarmed civilians, maybe this was an act of revenge for similar crimes commited by the enemy. This sort of retaliation actions is common and one must understand the cause of a massacre before judging its nature.
Actually, most of us were pretty unaware of what exactly was going on there, besides the shelling in Sarajevo. There was no active propagandizing by our commanders as to the nature of the forces there. As far as we were concerned we were there to keep all three sides from dukeing it out, and we took just as many weapons caches away from Bosnians and Croats as we took from Serbs. The Serbs do hold the record for placement of landmines in a given area though. I find that claims like this that our commanders were 'hyping' us up on the evilness of the enemy com from two places:Hollywood, and people that have never served in combat.


Anyway, war is always cruel and brutal and during war there is rarely a "good side".



Obviously. Serbs are a very proud people and the people fighting on the Serbian side were 100% convinced they were fighting a just cause, just like most of your comrades probably were.



First of all, American GIs also group raped women both in Europe and Asia. And that's just the American GIs. The Sovjet Red Army portrayed a sort of brutality beyond the comprehension of civilised humans, yet both American GIs and these monsters were supposed to be the "good guys" because they were fighting Hitler...

The difference being that in many cases the US soldiers were brought up on charges under the UCMJ, and the abuses of US soldiers are not done with the express consent of the higher command, whereas the Serbian top brass ordered their troops to rape, pilliage, and destroy as much of the Bosnian countryside as they could. Yes, bad things happen on both sides of a war, and this is largely unavoidable. However, when a people actively embrace the horrible aspects of war, and therefore encourage their soldiers to participate in reprehensible acts, that is the most unconscionable crime a society can do.


Second, an essential part of black propaganda is the dehumanisation of the enemy by means of attrocity stories. Back during WW1, the German soldiers were falsely accused of cutting off babies' hands and sticking babies up their bayonets. During the Gulf War, Iraqi soldiers were falsely accused of throwing babies out of their incubators. Both accusations are generally accepted as false today, however they were used to gain support of the war effort against respectively Germany and Iraq at the time.
Therefore what? Yes, propaganda certainly has occured in war since the invention of war. Put to assume that this means that every single time you hear an attrocity story, it is mear propeganda? That is ridiculous. How do you know the stories about American soldiers are true then, and not just merely propaganda?

So we need to first ask ourselves if these stories about group rapes by Serbian soldiers are true. If they are true, we must ask ourselves if this sort of crime was perpetrated by the Serbs alone or whether the "other side" was equally guilty of such crimes. Further, we must also ask ourselves why these soldiers were doing this. Often, group rape is a way of dehumanising the enemy as revenge for a (perceived) harm by the enemy towards their own people.
Are you seriously trying to justify it by this "percieved harm" argument? Ridiculous!

Anyway, you can't judge the conflict just by what you've seen and heard alone. In times of war, things are rarely as obvious as they seem and right and wrong are replaced by a huge shade of gray.
No one said I was, but given the preponderance of evidence, it seems to me that the Serbs and the Bosnians did far worse things to each other (certainly with the Croats helping out) then we ever did to to them. I am still not sure why you have such a problem with our involvement though?

Out of the Box
11-16-2009, 01:53 AM
Must be talking about your Holocaust denying?

That, as well as my views on "democracy", multi-culturalism and Judaism.

Are there walls around Flanders patrolled by Einsatzgruppen keeping you in? Come on over. Hell, if its good enough for 21 million Mexicans, it cant be all bad here lol.

No thanks. Maybe sometime in the future I'll more to Ireland, Scotland or Australia (these are the three countries culturally closest to my ancestrial culture), but for the time being this is no option. My funds are limited and my girlfriend is too attached to her family to move away from them at this point in time.

Where do you live at the moment? I understand your origins are in Ireland but you moved to the US, right?

Surly you cant be assuming that all of those un-uniformed women and children we found were lawful combatants or partisans? Thats laughable.

Ah yes, the holocaust denier syndrom. yawn

You didn't give any details, so I was just speculating about the possibilities.

Anyway.... Unless you can show that the Bosnians or Kosovars did NOT commit similar crimes, your reference to these civilian casualties is pointless.

I find that claims like this that our commanders were 'hyping' us up on the evilness of the enemy com from two places:Hollywood, and people that have never served in combat.

Well, they did hype up ignorant GIs during other wars, so it sounds a bit surprising they didn't do it during the Yugoslavian war.

The difference being that in many cases the US soldiers were brought up on charges under the UCMJ, and the abuses of US soldiers are not done with the express consent of the higher command, whereas the Serbian top brass ordered their troops to rape, pilliage, and destroy as much of the Bosnian countryside as they could.

And you know this how?!?

Yes, bad things happen on both sides of a war, and this is largely unavoidable. However, when a people actively embrace the horrible aspects of war, and therefore encourage their soldiers to participate in reprehensible acts, that is the most unconscionable crime a society can do.

About a week ago, you mentioned the possibility of civil war between native Europeans and Muslem immigrants. Imagine this was broke out and these Muslems started randomly raping, pillaging and killing native European civilians. How do you think the native Europeans would react (assuming they still had the balls to react)? How would you react is your 17-year-old niece or sister was tortured, gang-raped and then killed?

I have no doubts that the Serbians commited horrible crimes, but to single them out as the perpetrators and the other sides as victims (like NATO and the mainstream media did) is just plain silly.

Yes, propaganda certainly has occured in war since the invention of war. Put to assume that this means that every single time you hear an attrocity story, it is mear propeganda?

I'm not that naive. I'm just skeptical about attrocity stories since I'm aware of several historical cases of fabrication of such stories.

That is ridiculous. How do you know the stories about American soldiers are true then, and not just merely propaganda?

I got one story of group rape by American GIs from a historical website glorifying the Belgian restistance during WW2. They have no reason whatsoever to portray the American GIs in a negative daylight, quite the contrary.

Are you seriously trying to justify it by this "percieved harm" argument? Ridiculous!

No one said I was, but given the preponderance of evidence, it seems to me that the Serbs and the Bosnians did far worse things to each other (certainly with the Croats helping out) then we ever did to to them.

I was referring to the infamous NATO bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia).

I am still not sure why you have such a problem with our involvement though?

As a Flemish nationalist, I support the Serbian cause and strongly object to NATO interference in favor of Kosovar independence (considering Kosovo is traditional Serbian land).

EireEngineer
11-16-2009, 08:28 AM
That, as well as my views on "democracy", multi-culturalism and Judaism.



No thanks. Maybe sometime in the future I'll more to Ireland, Scotland or Australia (these are the three countries culturally closest to my ancestrial culture), but for the time being this is no option. My funds are limited and my girlfriend is too attached to her family to move away from them at this point in time.

Where do you live at the moment? I understand your origins are in Ireland but you moved to the US, right?



You didn't give any details, so I was just speculating about the possibilities.

Anyway.... Unless you can show that the Bosnians or Kosovars did NOT commit similar crimes, your reference to these civilian casualties is pointless.
Ah yes, the old logical fallacy of asking someone to prove a negative. What is this, amateur night?

[quote=Out of the Box;62859]
Well, they did hype up ignorant GIs during other wars, so it sounds a bit surprising they didn't do it during the Yugoslavian war.
Well, first of all it wasnt much of a war, because nobody but the odd crazy wanted and actual fight. And secondly, no, there was no hype.


And you know this how?!?
Ever hear of the Hague?


About a week ago, you mentioned the possibility of civil war between native Europeans and Muslem immigrants. Imagine this was broke out and these Muslems started randomly raping, pillaging and killing native European civilians. How do you think the native Europeans would react (assuming they still had the balls to react)? How would you react is your 17-year-old niece or sister was tortured, gang-raped and then killed?

I have no doubts that the Serbians commited horrible crimes, but to single them out as the perpetrators and the other sides as victims (like NATO and the mainstream media did) is just plain silly.

No, what is silly to assert that the Serbian motivation for their atrocities was reciprocity for those done by Bosnians. Where is your proof that the Bosnians did any such thing, since you are the one making the assertion?


I'm not that naive. I'm just skeptical about attrocity stories since I'm aware of several historical cases of fabrication of such stories.
Being skeptical is one thing, but it seems that your first reaction is to deny any atrocity story unless it is the US or Russians involved. Need I remind you that the Belgians are directly responsible for one of the worst incidences of "ethnic cleansing" in the 20th century?


I got one story of group rape by American GIs from a historical website glorifying the Belgian restistance during WW2. They have no reason whatsoever to portray the American GIs in a negative daylight, quite the contrary.

Are you seriously trying to justify it by this "percieved harm" argument? Ridiculous!
Yes, and what happened to those soldiers, out of curiosity?


I was referring to the infamous NATO bombings (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legitimacy_of_NATO_bombing_of_Yugoslavia).



As a Flemish nationalist, I support the Serbian cause and strongly object to NATO interference in favor of Kosovar independence (considering Kosovo is traditional Serbian land).
And I am of the opinion that you forfeit such claims when you start a campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Out of the Box
11-16-2009, 10:26 AM
Ah yes, the old logical fallacy of asking someone to prove a negative.

Are you suggesting that the Bosnians and Kosovars did NOT kill Serbian civilians?

Well, first of all it wasnt much of a war, because nobody but the odd crazy wanted and actual fight.

I guess NATO threw those bombs just for fun, then :confused:

Ever hear of the Hague?

Since when are neo-Stalinist show trials proof of anything besides the hypocrisy of the capitalist West?

No, what is silly to assert that the Serbian motivation for their atrocities was reciprocity for those done by Bosnians.

Here (http://www.adjutant.com/serbia/index.html)'s a Serbian perspective on the entire issue, which seems closer to the truth than the NATO propaganda we're supposed to believe.

Being skeptical is one thing, but it seems that your first reaction is to deny any atrocity story unless it is the US or Russians involved.

Wrong. I just distrust EU governments and especially the US government because they have a history of fabricating history.

Yes, and what happened to those soldiers, out of curiosity?

I'm not aware of any actions taken against those soldiers. Back in 1945, raping, torturing or killing people who suspected of links with the Nazis one way or another was considered normal and many people got off the hook for the most extreme brutallities. In fact, the 1945 violence by civilians against those suspected of collaboration was quite large-scale and entered the Belgian history books as "the repression".

And I am of the opinion that you forfeit such claims when you start a campaign of ethnic cleansing.

Why do you continue repeating that lame old NATO propaganda?



By the way, please check the layout of your previous post. It's a bit messed up.

EireEngineer
11-19-2009, 08:35 AM
First of all, can you point to a single incident where Bosnians, or Kosovars, lined up and executed Serbian civilians, and then plunked the bodies in a mass grave?

Out of the Box
11-19-2009, 08:40 AM
More than 250,000 Serbians were driven out from Kosovo by Albanian separatists. Presently, Serbians are living in Kosovo like in a ghetto. After the NATO occupation, more than 150 ancient Orthodox churches were destroyed by Albanians in Kosovo. There are no repair works. Serbians are living there in constant fear. Even Serbian children cannot go to school without adults. After NATO's occupation, hundreds of Serbians were killed in Kosovo. More than 3,000 Serbians are "missing" in Kosovo (that means "killed"). There are no investigations. Presently, Albanians are capturing Serbia's federal, social, and private property. The occupation's forces in Kosovo, the so-called peacekeeping forces, ignored Resolution 1244 of the Security Council of the UN. They misrepresent the current situation in Kosovo in its reports to the UN General Secretary. Today, Kosovo is a crucial point in the drug trade, which traffics heroin from Afghanistan and Pakistan to Europe.

Do you deny all these facts?!?

EireEngineer
11-19-2009, 06:41 PM
Driving a group out of an area is a far cry from executing them, dont you think?

Out of the Box
11-20-2009, 01:35 AM
Driving a group out of an area is a far cry from executing them, dont you think?

What these 3000 "missing" Serbians?

Public Enemy Number One
11-20-2009, 11:04 AM
That 911 was an inside job.

There is no evidence.

That the Twin Towers collapsed due to a controlled demolition.

There is no evidence unless someone who actually wired the Twin Towers for demolition; unless someone who planted the bombs inside the towers; unless someone within the military who has knowledge that a stand down was ordered, etc., etc., etc. comes forward with undisputeable evidence and not merely their words.

Not one man, but many.

Until then, folks, we are conspiracy theorists and I'm happy to say so!


You are insane.

Hanso
12-14-2009, 04:49 PM
I've got room for one more in my bunker

EireEngineer
12-15-2009, 09:32 PM
What these 3000 "missing" Serbians?
Missing does not necessarily mean dead in a mass grave. The burden of proof is on you.

BlueAngel
01-03-2010, 08:38 PM
You are insane.

For certain, my husband and children; my friends and relatives would be a better judge of my sanity than some anonymous poster on an internet forum.

Although, we don't take your opinion seriously, we thank you for it anyway.

:rolleyes:

EireEngineer
01-13-2010, 06:04 PM
And since we cant directly talk to any of them, we can only go off of your erratic and often irrational postings.

BlueAngel
01-13-2010, 08:31 PM
And since we cant directly talk to any of them, we can only go off of your erratic and often irrational postings.

My postings are neither erratic and/or irrational.

This would be a figment of your imagination.

FYI, erratic and irrational postings does not make one crazy. Just erratic and irrational.

:)

BlueAngel
01-13-2010, 09:20 PM
Why do you think you can't directly talk to my husband?

Out of the Box
01-16-2010, 04:22 AM
Why is this infantile off-topic "You're nuts - No I'm not nuts" argument still going on?

BlueAngel
01-18-2010, 11:14 PM
Why is this infantile off-topic "You're nuts - No I'm not nuts" argument still going on?

Because this is the last resort of the the "mind controllers" who visit this forum and believe that by calling me crazy this in some way discredits me.

Obviously, they've run out of ammunition.

Very lame, to say the least.

BlueAngel
01-19-2010, 12:27 AM
If you'd like to speak directly to my husband, Eire, just let me know and I'm certain he'll be happy to accommodate you.

But, then again, maybe not.

Cause he's not one for wanting to engage in conversation with crazy people.

See you Tuesday!

EireEngineer
01-30-2010, 12:00 AM
Still havent figured out the "see you next Tuesday thing" huh? Too funny.

BlueAngel
01-31-2010, 03:31 PM
Still havent figured out the "see you next Tuesday thing" huh? Too funny.

I'm not trying to figure out the "see you next Tuesday" thing.

Better things to do.

Too funny!

EireEngineer
02-01-2010, 01:14 AM
Damn you are dumb. There is this thing called the internet, and on there is a place called Google that helps you look things up. :D

BlueAngel
02-01-2010, 09:04 PM
Damn you are dumb. There is this thing called the internet, and on there is a place called Google that helps you look things up. :D

Damn, that is one of the most pathetic posts I have ever read.

Just so EIRE could call me dumb.

kerry
02-28-2010, 10:40 AM
what is all this talk of no evidence. fbi found a letter from bin laden in a terrorist motel room ordering the terrorist to do what he is there for. they all were found to be terrorist after 9/11. and millions of new yorkers saw them fly into the wtc buildings. there was a tape played on the news showing bin laden pointing to a page in there qurin as to the reason for 9/11. and the reason was the page sead that the towers in the west must be destroyed. and if you surf the net now you will find all kinds of hate sites that hate america. islams 4 methods of conversion are one-talk.. 2-scripture.. 3-a warning.. 4-by the sword..dont look for a logical reason for the 9/11 attack because there isent any. it was from superstition of islam and hate of america. we are looking in the wrong places.. lets see if anyone can find the reason for there hate of america. and it will be just as lame as the reason for 9/11

BlueAngel
02-28-2010, 07:25 PM
what is all this talk of no evidence. fbi found a letter from bin laden in a terrorist motel room ordering the terrorist to do what he is there for. they all were found to be terrorist after 9/11. and millions of new yorkers saw them fly into the wtc buildings. there was a tape played on the news showing bin laden pointing to a page in there qurin as to the reason for 9/11. and the reason was the page sead that the towers in the west must be destroyed. and if you surf the net now you will find all kinds of hate sites that hate america. islams 4 methods of conversion are one-talk.. 2-scripture.. 3-a warning.. 4-by the sword..dont look for a logical reason for the 9/11 attack because there isent any. it was from superstition of islam and hate of america. we are looking in the wrong places.. lets see if anyone can find the reason for there hate of america. and it will be just as lame as the reason for 9/11

This thread isn't about how there isn't any evidence against bin Laden.

Please read it again.

iHIMself™
03-20-2010, 09:18 AM
lets see if anyone can find the reason for there hate of america. and it will be just as lame as the reason for 9/11

OMG. Does one need to answer this? The WHOLE WORLD has turned its back on the so-called 'Leaders of the free world'. Not just muslims. But maybe the muslim world is angry because the US has sanctioned their countries, and taken over those with real resources. At least financially. The US continues to support Israel, a large thorn in Islam, and if you don't know why, google the damn thing, read a book, and LEARN the history behind its formation, the US and other western countries have been CAUGHT red handed bombing their own embassies and blaming it on extremists. According to Bush, Jesus was a terrorist. You're either with them or with the terrorists...remember?

Apart from the odd self exploding mother, the muslims have done nothing but throw stones. They donot have the technology, nor the resources, or the WILL, to carry out these extremities. No matter what they misinterpret the quran to say. but WE do.

And sorry Blue Angel, I love you, you very sexy grrl, but to say there is no evidence is nothing more than turning a blind eye, whether by force, or by fear, i don't know, to COMMON SENSE. It took 20 years for most americans to realise JFK wasn't assassinated by Lee Harvey Oswald. At least alone. But if you look at the video....only common sense will tell you the shot came from the front...as his head went back, and to the left.....back and to the left. Is it fact?? No....but it its pretty damn likely enough for me to put my left nut on it. It is absolute truth. I saw a documentary only weeks ago that involved special ballistics experiments that PROVED the shot came from the 6th storey of the depository building. Of course this experiment did NOT take the video into account. But it was, what they called....fact.
The same with the twin towers. I saw them fall myself. I know what a demolition looks like. I don't need a commission hearing to tell me what I know or don't know. Fact is, they are still the only 3 buildings EVER to collapse by fire. Let alone the two other planes in pensylvania and the pentagon to totally disintigrate and dissappear. That is hilarious. And the FACT that all 14 hijackers were NOT on any flight passenger lists?? How did they get on the planes?? With the same box cutters they used to control 200 odd passengers? Who needs facts??

common sense just aint that common anymore.

Provided I am still aware of the truth, and the objectives of those who are controlling subliminal truth, I'll be sane. And real. Alive. They can stick all the facts up their ass.

jane doe
03-20-2010, 03:50 PM
I recall the engineers placed explosives in the construction of the twin towers but because they wouldn't have been passed in inspection, noone documented it. At Columbia University an Iraqi [Princess] teacher/architect became privy to this information and it became know to the third world terrorists.

iHIMself™
03-26-2010, 09:07 AM
Are you saying they planted explosives during the construction of the towers?? lol. And some islamic architect fell privelaged to the information and informed these so-called terrorists? And how did they detonate these? Were they also responsible for the complete disintigration of the other two planes and bodies as well? And calling off any military air support? What about building #7? Did they plant explosives during the contruction of this building too?
I think it was mohammad ali that said on live radio....'aint no vietcong call me nigga'.

Aint no islamic freak threaten my home, or my family.....ever!

No matter how far you go back in history, the greatest enemy of the people, has always been its government.

But times, they are a changin'.

jane doe
03-29-2010, 08:39 AM
The said architect from Iraq hated the twin towers. She even made a point of purchasing an apartment to not face the towers...we're talking about a billionare, whose penthouse doesn't face thetowers..The engineer of the twin towers stated in a Times article the Towers were strong enough to withstand a Boeing, after the failed attempt of the basement bombing.

As an engineer, and highly competitive architect, the Iraqi architect/engineer calculated the amount of force necessary to destroy the towers. She did the math and made the information known via another architect who had been accused of meeting and funding binladen, from Iraq as well. I don't know the outcome of the Iraqi male architects' law suit against Bush, but it is documented.

Very few people on earth can do the math required to design the buildings the female has built in Japan. She engineers her own.

iHIMself™
04-01-2010, 10:58 PM
Whether she was connected or not, it is clear, and even more EVIDENT, it was a demolition, and NOT the result of the planes, or fire. The fact the commision dismissed this as any real possibility, if not probability, shows who's side they were on. And it wasn't the 3000 Americans that died that day.

kerry
04-12-2010, 07:32 PM
hi in this post befor i go any further islamic terrorist suck
somone in here says there is no evidence.. this is to long to post so ill just say you can ask the fbi online for there findings on 9/11 im pretty sure its publick information.. as for there is no evidence... bull shit.. i saw 9/11 i was there., and the fbi did find evidence it was a islamic terror attack orderd by bin laden.. do your homework or take the diaper off your head and give it air

BlueAngel
04-12-2010, 08:27 PM
hi in this post befor i go any further islamic terrorist suck
somone in here says there is no evidence.. this is to long to post so ill just say you can ask the fbi online for there findings on 9/11 im pretty sure its publick information.. as for there is no evidence... bull shit.. i saw 9/11 i was there., and the fbi did find evidence it was a islamic terror attack orderd by bin laden.. do your homework or take the diaper off your head and give it air

Please remember, Kerry, that this is a conspiracy forum and that most of the members here believe that 911 was an inside job perpetrated by the "Powers that Be" using the CIA's trained and funded terrorist cell by the name of Al Qaeda headed by Osama bin Laden.

Therefore, this thread, which I authored, was meant "tongue in cheek" to explore the fact that there IS NO EVIDENCE to support this claim.

Obviously, the US government has provided us with all the evidence needed to support their claim that 911 was the result of a radical islamic terrorist group who wishes to destroy America.

Please, put your thinking cap on.

jane doe
04-12-2010, 08:55 PM
The History channel is promoting an al Q commitment to kill a certain number of children and adults. I saw a brief show on nuclear arms, today, including a scenario on DC, which encompassed the derrogatory death calculations mentioned by "Usama bin laden".

Isn't is more conspiratous to promoted and venerate a behavior than quell the thirsts with denial??

kerry
04-30-2010, 11:30 AM
befor the 9/11 attack bin laden kept sending tapes telling america it is going to be attacked the tapes was put on the news for all to see
one of the terrorist who stayed in a motel room that was on one of the plaines.. shows a vedio from a security camera at the airport. that same terrorist got a note with a message from bin laden the note gave the terrorist instructions and told the terrorist to crave death. fbi got the id of all the terrorist. after 9/11 another tape from bin laden shows him pointing to a padge in there qurin where the contents of the page shows the reason for the 9/11 attack. somthing about the towers in the west. this tape was on tv and i saw it. long befor the 9/11 attack alqueda company made a threat of attack on america 1998 i think the year was. bin laden befor and after 9/11 started a fatwah on america for its destruction. and orderd all muslems to jihad. no evedence you say.... the question here is why. not evidence there is plenty of that. does anyone know why?.... then some of you got the nerve to get on your hind legs and say INSIDE JOB. and in view of all the evidence. . how can it be a inside job when the towers was making uncle sam rich and the stock went on a one way trip up. you people dont know what your talking about you know the history but with no common sense.

Out of the Box
04-30-2010, 12:04 PM
befor the 9/11 attack bin laden kept sending tapes telling america it is going to be attacked the tapes was put on the news for all to see
one of the terrorist who stayed in a motel room that was on one of the plaines.. shows a vedio from a security camera at the airport. that same terrorist got a note with a message from bin laden the note gave the terrorist instructions and told the terrorist to crave death. fbi got the id of all the terrorist. after 9/11 another tape from bin laden shows him pointing to a padge in there qurin where the contents of the page shows the reason for the 9/11 attack. somthing about the towers in the west. this tape was on tv and i saw it. long befor the 9/11 attack alqueda company made a threat of attack on america 1998 i think the year was. bin laden befor and after 9/11 started a fatwah on america for its destruction. and orderd all muslems to jihad. no evedence you say.... the question here is why. not evidence there is plenty of that. does anyone know why?.... then some of you got the nerve to get on your hind legs and say INSIDE JOB. and in view of all the evidence. . how can it be a inside job when the towers was making uncle sam rich and the stock went on a one way trip up. you people dont know what your talking about you know the history but with no common sense.


Your story sounds very nice, but where did you get all that info from? Where's the evidence for those claims? What about the ties between the Bin Laden family, the Bush family and the Saudi royal family? What about the fact that Al Qaeda is created by the CIA? What about the Israeli connection? What about NORAD standing down? Why was the rubble of the WTC destroyed so fast no serious investigation of it could be done? Why about all the evidence that explosives were used in the WTC and who would have the clearances to place such explosives? How did an airplane (or whatever hit the Pentagon) get close enough to slam into one of the most secure buildings in the world (no restricted airspace?!?)? If it was indeed the missing plane that hit the Pentagon, why did it make a turn so it could hit a side of the building that was under construction? Are you aware of the fact that plans to invade Afghanistan already existed prior to 9/11?

The only reasonable explanation for what happened at 9/11 is that it was an inside job. It's nothing but a pretext to start America's Holy war against Islamic radicals because they are among the few to still resist the evil of US hegemony. Al Qaeda is a CIA fabrication. There are no International Muslem Terrorists. There are only Islamic freedom fighters like Hamas and Hezbollah and they operate on a local (national) level to liberate themselves from the racially supremacist apartheid state called Israel.


Also...If you want anyone to take you seriously, please learn how to spell.

kerry
04-30-2010, 05:48 PM
my spelling gets by
but i know things befor your time. like from 1938 up.
first the cia has to be into everything for the safty of america.
and that is being used agenst them so anyone can say it was the cia.
then after the first attack on the wtc. security was intensified.
and there was a very compleat investagation on workers and the wtc. so after tyhe first attack on the wtc a fly couldent get by un noticed.
the first attack on the wtc let us know its a prime target to terrorist
and it was not going to happen again. so then they cant get in to plant
bombs. they hijacked jets to fly into the wtc. the cia had somthing to do
with bin laden. but not with the attack on 9/11. and in no way formed
the alquare. the terrorist did that them selves. that includes ayatollakockamaine. and that kadaffy guy. but i know the reason for the
attack on the wtc. the wtc was making enimys of radical terrorist rich. and
america being made there enimy because of that hated america and israel
because israels gain was because of america. and american stock was made
to not know the down direction. which made the enimys of terrorist
nations and islam indipentaint and stronger agenst terrorist countrys.
look at bin laden. he got pissed when america gave israel those missels
so enimy plaines cant attack them. and israel no longer had to do what
they say to not be attacked. not only that israels armed forces were tripeld.
and this cia involvment garbade is just a lie being used at america
when i was small my uncle worked for the gov. i know somthing from
him. its propaganda being used at america. but the main issue here is
hey.. attack us first and you pay.. and i know all about the 1980;s.
and the 1970;s and cuba in case you try to tell me anything there
and ill tell you somthing else.. i never heard of islam befor 9/11
the attack was wrong no mater who was right or wrong. and when we are
attacked first. we will finnish it

iHIMself™
05-01-2010, 08:38 PM
and ill tell you somthing else.. i never heard of islam befor 9/11


OMG. Need anyone say more??

jane doe
05-02-2010, 09:26 AM
Kerry, can you post without the lisp? It's difficult to understand you.

kerry
05-02-2010, 10:23 AM
back in 1776. do you think the us gov was honest back then..yes it was. then cams the war with spain then the mexacan war now starting with ww1. to this war on terror.. 11 major wars to date.. and in between each war.. the longest period of no was was 22 years.. all other much shorter.. everry generation that reeched adult hood went to war. and while every generation was at war, those in there teens grew up to adult hood to end up in the next war. in this period. was the most wars in one country in the shortest amount of time. is this americas fault??.. if you say yes why all those cubans trying to get here in boats ans rafts. why are a lot of muslems coming to america waiting to be a citison. go back a few.. why did everyone come to america after 1492. why did they come to america on 1492. a new land. to escape unfair tax and dictatorship. now while your thinking of this.. take a good look at vamerica.. what do you see. in place of unfair tax is still high tax. high prices. people looseing there homes. terror cells. dont you know there are terror training camps here in the usa?.. i found this on another website.. what do you think caused all this and all those wars.. everyone has there own ideas. but without looking at the facts. learn why each war was. you will find every war invoilving america was because other countrys did not agree with the way we choosed to run our country. why did they attack on 9/11. it was because the world trade would have made countrys stronger and richer. so why did bin laden hate that. that is the question. and no one realy knows yet. do you know?. dident the terrorist target the world trade?. no one is doing any real thinking about it. after its only a forum lets have some fun. while they are over there geting killd vevery day. did you know a car bomb was found in time square in new york today.. may 1 2010
go to the news 7 website now. WABC-TV New York, New Jersey, Connecticut News, Weather & Traffic | 7online.com | 7online.com (http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/index)
and try this site about the wars i just talked about. war declared on america (http://kerrysdomain.net/war.html)

kerry
05-02-2010, 10:32 AM
so what was somone saying
about no evidence?

kerry
05-02-2010, 11:28 AM
here is a link to why new york was attacked. and its just what i been saying.. for religous reasons. brainwashed by bin laden and others..
A Perfectly Designed Puddle: Never forget the reason for 9/11 (http://perfectlydesignedpuddle.blogspot.com/2009/09/never-forget-reason-for-911.html)

BlueAngel
05-02-2010, 12:39 PM
so what was somone saying
about no evidence?

I have, on numerous occasions, explained the purpose of the thread title.

Kerry still does not get it.

kerry
05-02-2010, 12:53 PM
my posts are about evidence
how things built up. leeding to today
try reading its educational

kerry
05-02-2010, 01:05 PM
does anyone know the history about the muslem uprising between 1899 and 1901
does anyone know why they did. does it have to do with 9/11 and today

kerry
05-02-2010, 01:31 PM
does anyone know the history about the muslem uprising between 1899 and 1901
does anyone know why they did. does it have to do with 9/11 and today

Moro Rebellion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moro_Rebellion)

kerry
05-02-2010, 01:55 PM
still think its a Charade?
heres a time line history involving the united states

muslim troubles in american history - Google Search (http://www.google.com/search?q=muslim+troubles+in+american+history&hl=en&sa=X&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7ACEW_en&tbs=tl:1&tbo=u&ei=HNfdS8DWGYSClAepxeD8Cg&oi=timeline_result&ct=title&resnum=11&ved=0CDQQ5wIwCg)

whats the mater everyone.. cat got your tunge?

BlueAngel
05-02-2010, 04:09 PM
Your posts are irrelevant as far as the "intended" subject of this thread of which you are still unaware; although it has been explained to you several times.

Start a thread about the EVIDENCE you believe has been provided by the US government which has convinced you that Al Qaeda was solely responsible for 911 because, that is not what this thread is about.

kerry
05-02-2010, 04:35 PM
what im posting most surely is what this thread is about. and im geting more.. when you are finnished reading it you will have a clear picture about why on 9/11. unless your afrade what it will proove. and i clearly mentioned 9/11 in relation to the past to today. i am going to show what the platform was that led to other things and later 9/11.

kerry
05-02-2010, 04:44 PM
i will do it this way insted
very soon.. look for the web page i will make the name will be
http kerrysdomain.net/911history.html
anyone that wants to know the real story befor and after 9/11 go to that page. it may be ready by mid may 2010

BlueAngel
05-02-2010, 08:03 PM
No one is afraid of anything that you believe your posts might prove, kerry.

BlueAngel
05-02-2010, 11:20 PM
i will do it this way insted
very soon.. look for the web page i will make the name will be
http kerrysdomain.net/911history.html
anyone that wants to know the real story befor and after 9/11 go to that page. it may be ready by mid may 2010

You don't know the real story.

kerry
05-03-2010, 09:44 AM
just wait till i finnish my web page
you will be suprized
where was you when the idea for the wtc started in 1946.

kerry
05-03-2010, 09:47 AM
just wait till i finnish my web page
you will be suprized
where was you when the idea for the wtc started in 1946.

my web page is updated every day

kerry
05-03-2010, 12:32 PM
911history (http://kerrysdomain.net/911history.html)
here is the evidence there was no inside job on 9/11.
in any word or form...
if you want more oroof i can get it.
as for any other form of sead inside connections. i am now looking into that as you read this. and i will put it on a new page

BlueAngel
05-03-2010, 02:01 PM
just wait till i finnish my web page
you will be suprized
where was you when the idea for the wtc started in 1946.

I wasn't busy being a human yet.

What idea for the WTC and where were you?

kerry
05-03-2010, 04:19 PM
right there on 5th ave watching it
and dont forget i was around and coherent on 1946.
3 years after all japs in america was put in camps
the jap guy that designed the towers was a jap guy
why wasent he put in a camp.. World War Two - Japanese internment camps in the US (http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/japan_internment_camps.htm)
are you thinking yet

BlueAngel
05-04-2010, 04:02 PM
right there on 5th ave watching it
and dont forget i was around and coherent on 1946.
3 years after all japs in america was put in camps
the jap guy that designed the towers was a jap guy
why wasent he put in a camp.. World War Two - Japanese internment camps in the US (http://www.historyonthenet.com/WW2/japan_internment_camps.htm)
are you thinking yet

I'm always thinking.

However, I'm not sure that you are.

kerry
05-04-2010, 04:37 PM
if im not thinking the designer of the wtc was Minoru Yamasaki
a jap guy. who got the idea for it in 1945 where it was then proposed in 1946. if he was in one of those camps in ww2 and they let him go in 1945 which is the year all were releast from the camps. do you mean to tell me in one year right out of those camps his idea for the wtc was then proposed in 1946. just like that?. he was never in those camps. why did the us gov spare him from being put in one of those camps.. if i remember right.. and dont forget. i was old enought to understand in 1945. all people that are of japan nationality were put in those vamps.. ALLof them. babys. old men. whole familys. even if they were american citisons. there wasent one person on the streets of jap decent. execpt for Minoru Yamasaki.. find the reason behind that you will see a true coverup.
the question is WHY. there was some jap people in the war as solders then but they inlisted befor 1942 when those camps started. was Minoru Yamasaki one of them Minoru Yamasaki Home Page (http://www.minoruyamasaki.net/default.htm)

BlueAngel
05-04-2010, 05:22 PM
if im not thinking the designer of the wtc was Minoru Yamasaki
a jap guy. who got the idea for it in 1945 where it was then proposed in 1946. if he was in one of those camps in ww2 and they let him go in 1945 which is the year all were releast from the camps. do you mean to tell me in one year right out of those camps his idea for the wtc was then proposed in 1946. just like that?. he was never in those camps. why did the us gov spare him from being put in one of those camps.. if i remember right.. and dont forget. i was old enought to understand in 1945. all people that are of japan nationality were put in those vamps.. ALLof them. babys. old men. whole familys. even if they were american citisons. there wasent one person on the streets of jap decent. execpt for Minoru Yamasaki.. find the reason behind that you will see a true coverup.
the question is WHY. there was some jap people in the war as solders then but they inlisted befor 1942 when those camps started. was Minoru Yamasaki one of them Minoru Yamasaki Home Page (http://www.minoruyamasaki.net/default.htm)

Oh.

Give it up Kerry.

We know who covered up the 911 terrorist attacks.

The same people who covered up JFK's assassination.

Robert Kennedy's assassination.

Martin Luther King's assassination.

The CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY.

Also known as the CIA.

What?

Do you think Muslims are responsible for those killings, too?

kerry
05-04-2010, 06:41 PM
We know who covered up the 911 terrorist attacks.

The same people who covered up JFK's assassination.

Robert Kennedy's assassination.==================why

Martin Luther King's assassination==================why

The CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
[/COLOR]
Also known as the CIA.

not saying i believe it. but why would they do that

What?

Do you think Muslims are responsible for those killings, too?

kerry
05-04-2010, 06:44 PM
We know who covered up the 911 terrorist attacks.

The same people who covered up JFK's assassination.

Robert Kennedy's assassination.==================why

Martin Luther King's assassination==================why

The CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
[/color]
Also known as the CIA.

not saying i believe it. but why would they do that

What?

Do you think Muslims are responsible for those killings, too?

who me?? did i say that?

kerry
05-04-2010, 06:49 PM
i think radical muslems are responsable for a lot of unrest between nations

BlueAngel
05-04-2010, 06:56 PM
who me?? did i say that?

I never said that you said that and, obviously, you don't know if you said that either because you're asking me.

BlueAngel
05-04-2010, 06:58 PM
We know who covered up the 911 terrorist attacks.

The same people who covered up JFK's assassination.

Robert Kennedy's assassination.==================why

Martin Luther King's assassination==================why

The CENTRAL INTELLIGENCE AGENCY
[/color]
Also known as the CIA.

not saying i believe it. but why would they do that

What?

Do you think Muslims are responsible for those killings, too?

If you don't know why, I suggest you should have done a lot of research before joining a conspiracy forum.

BlueAngel
05-04-2010, 06:59 PM
i think radical muslems are responsable for a lot of unrest between nations

Yes.

We know this is your opinion just as they want you to believe.

Muslims.

Radical ones at that are responsible for all terrorist attacks and the unrest between nations.

Brainwashed much?

FallaciesAbound
05-13-2010, 05:39 PM
They certainly can be blamed for at least a portion of the unrest. Muslims havent been decent fighters since the 1700s, they whine and bitch about everything, yet refuse to negotiate in good faith, and then they wonder why they are in the state they are in. They need someone to dig up Saladin, clone him, and then maybe they stand a chance of being an adult society.

iHIMself™
05-13-2010, 06:59 PM
They certainly can be blamed for at least a portion of the unrest. Muslims havent been decent fighters since the 1700s, they whine and bitch about everything, yet refuse to negotiate in good faith, and then they wonder why they are in the state they are in. They need someone to dig up Saladin, clone him, and then maybe they stand a chance of being an adult society.

1700's?? We were slaughtered on the hills of Gallipoli (Turkey). That was WWI. 1918. They were neutral in WWII. Thanks be to HIM.

They whine and b*tch, and refuse to negotiate in good faith?? lmao. Is this before or after our sanctions? Bend over, give us what we came for, or face sanctions. Good faith, lol.

Then they wonder why thay are in the state they are in? Which state are they in? Dignity outweighs superficial prosperity.

If they clone Saladin, we will see a war far more devastating then any previous wars put together. Do you know who he was?

superted
05-14-2010, 02:08 AM
Don't mess with ihimself - no knows everything! and is never wrong....now who else do I know just like that?

Out of the Box
05-14-2010, 06:13 AM
They certainly can be blamed for at least a portion of the unrest. Muslims havent been decent fighters since the 1700s, they whine and bitch about everything, yet refuse to negotiate in good faith, and then they wonder why they are in the state they are in. They need someone to dig up Saladin, clone him, and then maybe they stand a chance of being an adult society.

Muslems are pretty much the ONLY ones offering any serious resistance to the New World Order. Hezbollah and Hamas are the ONLY organisations doing ANYTHING about the evil oppressive Jewish-supremacist regime called Israel. Meanwhile, the White middle class just allows itself being spoonfed with vile anti-White propaganda by the oligarchs while our very existence as an ethno-cultural group is being threatened. So WTF are you talking about?!?

I don't like my country being overrun by Muslem immigrants but I strongly support the Islamic Republic of Iran being the ONLY regime to openly question the Holocaust myth, to openly question Jewish supremacism, to openly question American economic colonialism and to provide a socio-cultural alternative to both capitalism and communism that alows people to live in prosperity and peace. While their regime is most definitely far from perfect, I have far more respect for them than I have for the corrupt, mediocre, greedy @$$holes who call themselves our leaders and who're little else but puppets for the upcoming Jew-dominated New World Order.

i think radical muslems are responsable for a lot of unrest between nations

It's actually Jews and their favorite pet projects (first the British empire, later Israel and the US) that are responsible for most of unrest between nations since the French revolution. Muslems are actually among the few ones doing anything to save themselves from this mess during the last few decades. It's pretty ignorant to blame them for something they're fighting against.

Anyway, it's a public secret that Al Qaeda is a CIA creation and that 9/11 was an inside job. Nothing you've given us so far has remotely been able to disprove these facts.

jane doe
05-14-2010, 08:41 AM
If they clone Saladin, we will see a war far more devastating then any previous wars put together. Do you know who he was?

rofl..:p He was the Muslim Turk i hinted at on another thread.

BlueAngel
05-14-2010, 03:48 PM
Don't mess with ihimself - no knows everything! and is never wrong....now who else do I know just like that?

That would be me, of course.

Now, where's my prize for guessing correctly?

I just love people who are certain of themselves, don't you?

iHIMself™
05-15-2010, 10:12 AM
lmao

BlueAngel
05-17-2010, 10:07 PM
lmao

I know.

Very funny.

If I may say so myself and I do say so myself.

So, yes, because I say so myself, it is very funny.

Very funny, indeed.

Don't want to use the LMAO, cause that might be inappropriate for a moderator.

So, I'm laughing out loud!

LOL!

kerry
05-19-2010, 06:20 PM
ok
everyones saying 9/11 was a inside job.. the wtc was attacked two times..
what is it with the world trade that those diaper heads with the wtc that bothers them. what was it with those muslems in the upriseing in 1899-1900
i remember as far back as 1960 there was terror threats on new york. 19 1970 a terror attack in new york on saint pattys day. times square car bomb. they been bicthing for a loong time. the point im making is being they have been causeing problems from that far back.. was the inside job because of the wtc. what inside job. its been building the whole 20th century.
so its a lot of things. but what.. that is the inside job were looking for

BlueAngel
05-19-2010, 08:17 PM
ok
everyones saying 9/11 was a inside job.. the wtc was attacked two times..
what is it with the world trade that those diaper heads with the wtc that bothers them. what was it with those muslems in the upriseing in 1899-1900
i remember as far back as 1960 there was terror threats on new york. 19 1970 a terror attack in new york on saint pattys day. times square car bomb. they been bicthing for a loong time. the point im making is being they have been causeing problems from that far back.. was the inside job because of the wtc. what inside job. its been building the whole 20th century.
so its a lot of things. but what.. that is the inside job were looking for

BIGOT:

One who is hostile to people of different ethnicity, sexual orientation, differing race, nationality and religion.

iHIMself™
05-20-2010, 02:40 AM
Kerry, that's exactly what people are mislead to believe. They have caused trouble, or threatened trouble for us throughout the 20th century. But it's quite the contrary.
As you have proved in another topic, being 'the big cigarette cover-up', you are well aware of the blood suckers that exist in our leadership.

How's this for blood on their hands.....

Since 911, the war on terror has produced 1/2 trillion dollars for industry conglomerates. This is only an estimate of the OFFICIAL profits made. This, still continues to rise enormously.
If we were to count the dead citizens (approx 3000), and divide the total profits made by this number...we get....roughly, $167,000,000. That is 167 million dollars profit made...per head (american 911 death). With so much money at stake, do you still think it was NOT an inside job?

Mind you, they wanted MORE to die....remember the media screaming the 5000 number? The workers of the 2nd building, who were fleeing at the time, were told, by an anouncement over the speaker, to go BACK to their desks. Obviously, they wanted to make a bigger impact on the population. They even included missing persons, dissappeared way before 911. The bigger the number, the more dramatic the event.

Was it the extremists ambition to fill the pockets of corporations, or was this just a bonus kickback to the tragedy?

Come on kerry, I know you are better than this.

Out of the Box
05-20-2010, 10:25 AM
ok
everyones saying 9/11 was a inside job..

... because that's the only conclusion one can draw from looking at the evidence objectively.

the wtc was attacked two times..
what is it with the world trade that those diaper heads with the wtc that bothers them.

It's not the "diaper heads" that are bothered with the WTC. It's Silverstein and the other Jewish moguls who had to spend way too much money to keep it running and needed a profitable way to get rid of it. By creating 9/11, they could not only scam insurances but also create a pretext for their already planned war against Afghanistan.

the point im making is being they have been causeing problems from that far back.. was the inside job because of the wtc. what inside job. its been building the whole 20th century.

OSS/CIA, MI6/OSS and Mossad have been quite active in black ops for quite a while. It's amazing you still seem to believe their lies in spite of all the dirt that's come out during the last few decades.

kerry
05-21-2010, 11:10 AM
blue
how long havce you been on this earth. i was born when it was still the cowboy days and i seen things you wont find anywhere else. did you know the korean war never ended. its still in a state of a truce. do you know what led to the korean war. do you know what led to ww1. ww1 and ww2 were the anti christ wars. this war on terror if you agree or not dont matter is a third anti christ war. the president of iran around 2005 or 2006 started a count down for the west to convert to islam. thats a fact in the news. and you call me a bigot. who is agenst the belief of christ.. islam is thats a fact.
do you know what the muslem uprising in 1899-1900 was about.. read up on that befor yyou call anyone a bigot. do you know what is ment by jihad or fatawah. it meens kill all non believers when and where you find them. who attacks any one at random with no regard of who. do you know what they will do if they could. my grand parrents are from cork ireland. my grand father remembers a british solder for no reason just shooting somone on the street.. a camera man for the news was shot by one and it was taped on camera as he was shot.. the news medis can proove this. you dont know what your talking about blue.

kerry
05-21-2010, 11:14 AM
Kerry, that's exactly what people are mislead to believe. They have caused trouble, or threatened trouble for us throughout the 20th century. But it's quite the contrary.
As you have proved in another topic, being 'the big cigarette cover-up', you are well aware of the blood suckers that exist in our leadership.

How's this for blood on their hands.....

Since 911, the war on terror has produced 1/2 trillion dollars for industry conglomerates. This is only an estimate of the OFFICIAL profits made. This, still continues to rise enormously.
If we were to count the dead citizens (approx 3000), and divide the total profits made by this number...we get....roughly, $167,000,000. That is 167 million dollars profit made...per head (american 911 death). With so much money at stake, do you still think it was NOT an inside job?

Mind you, they wanted MORE to die....remember the media screaming the 5000 number? The workers of the 2nd building, who were fleeing at the time, were told, by an anouncement over the speaker, to go BACK to their desks. Obviously, they wanted to make a bigger impact on the population. They even included missing persons, dissappeared way before 911. The bigger the number, the more dramatic the event.

Was it the extremists ambition to fill the pockets of corporations, or was this just a bonus kickback to the tragedy?

Come on kerry, I know you are better than this.

so your saying our own us gov caused 9/11 for money

BlueAngel
05-21-2010, 04:22 PM
so your saying our own us gov caused 9/11 for money

Can you not read?

This thread is about how I believe, and many others, as well, believe that the US government and other corrupt elements such as the Military Industrial Complex planned and plotted 911 for decades.

Oh, what's the point.

Obviously, you cannot comprehend the written word.

PURPOSE:

To spread fear.

To invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

To implement the Patriot Act.

Etc., etc., etc.

FallaciesAbound
06-04-2010, 05:20 PM
Talk about the pot calling the kettle black....:D

OK, I totally get the motivation for spreading fear, the patriot act, and Iraq. All of those seem pretty obvious. However, why on earth would anyone want to invade Afghanistan, in this scenario at least, a country which many have certainly conquered, but none have held for for than a few years. It has no natural resources that can be easily exported, and it is in a part of the world where its occupation would piss off a lot of nations. So whats the upside?

It certainly doesnt damage the theory, but the part about Afghanistan always made me wonder.

jane doe
06-04-2010, 06:22 PM
perhaps the Gavrilo Princip creates every war.

Out of the Box
06-06-2010, 06:16 AM
However, why on earth would anyone want to invade Afghanistan, in this scenario at least, a country which many have certainly conquered, but none have held for for than a few years. It has no natural resources that can be easily exported, and it is in a part of the world where its occupation would piss off a lot of nations. So whats the upside?

Oil pipe lines and heroin. Afghanistan contains some key oil pipelines and is the main production area for heroin.

ibeme
06-06-2010, 04:08 PM
The fact is that if for example a murderer said that the person they killed died due to natural courses and there was no physical evidence that he did yet from what happend it all pointed to the person being murdered it would make a VERY seriouse case in court and there would be alot more resources put into finding the physical evidence.

Even if it was all how the government says it was why wouldnt they let people make a case and examine it so that it cleared them from any thought of a conspiracy going on.

And why is it that any body that does try to examine and make a case out of what happend....even if they share no bias to whether it was faked or not or even if those ppl actualy believed the government was telling the truth. Still they would be called conspiracy theorists and be denied ANY credibilit for there finds.

The truth is that there will NEVER be any evidence against the government that shows everyone that the government did it for a fact. NEVER....so there is no point standing around hopeing that this person comes forward or that person does.....NO ONE will because it will only fuck there own lives up and even if they did it wouldnt fucking matter.

we will NEVER prove 9/11 was riged...we might prove to our selvs but the government will never let it be proved on mass scale...it just aint gonna happen

To be hounest...only thing that would ever change anything....is for everyone to come to gether and put a bullet through all the people at the tops head and that is damn well impossible sooo....any volenters??? lol

ibeme
06-06-2010, 06:39 PM
blue
how long havce you been on this earth. i was born when it was still the cowboy days and i seen things you wont find anywhere else. did you know the korean war never ended. its still in a state of a truce. do you know what led to the korean war. do you know what led to ww1. ww1 and ww2 were the anti christ wars. this war on terror if you agree or not dont matter is a third anti christ war. the president of iran around 2005 or 2006 started a count down for the west to convert to islam. thats a fact in the news. and you call me a bigot. who is agenst the belief of christ.. islam is thats a fact.
do you know what the muslem uprising in 1899-1900 was about.. read up on that befor yyou call anyone a bigot. do you know what is ment by jihad or fatawah. it meens kill all non believers when and where you find them. who attacks any one at random with no regard of who. do you know what they will do if they could. my grand parrents are from cork ireland. my grand father remembers a british solder for no reason just shooting somone on the street.. a camera man for the news was shot by one and it was taped on camera as he was shot.. the news medis can proove this. you dont know what your talking about blue.

One thing I wana say is

Crusades....a time when all christians marched into middle east and killed all none believers...actualy you know what is also funny....alot of time christian prisoners where taken and released back to there people, thats was of course untill the christians kept doing the oposit.

Anyway did you not know that recently in Iran there was an election and that most of the people wanted change...especialy the young....they actualy wana become more westernised and when the elections ended in the good guy loseing the elections there was riots all in iran and that the real guy in charge (there is actualy a guy in Iran i forget what hes called who is actualy above there president and can effectivly make a big difrence) he was on the side of the president they still have in charge who hates the west and blardy blah. Well i think that maybe the real powers in controle in Iran are controled by the same powers controleing most the world and then in taht case i find it funny how obama sent a message to Iran saying about how they support there want for change and everything....which proberly helped inspired alot of free thinkin iranians to riot and such after in all createin what the ppl around the world who are at the top want...chaos.

ibeme
06-06-2010, 06:42 PM
One thing I wana say is

Crusades....a time when all christians marched into middle east and killed all none believers...actualy you know what is also funny....alot of time christian prisoners where taken and released back to there people, thats was of course untill the christians kept doing the oposit.

Anyway did you not know that recently in Iran there was an election and that most of the people wanted change...especialy the young....they actualy wana become more westernised and when the elections ended in the good guy loseing the elections there was riots all in iran and that the real guy in charge (there is actualy a guy in Iran i forget what hes called who is actualy above there president and can effectivly make a big difrence) he was on the side of the president they still have in charge who hates the west and blardy blah. Well i think that maybe the real powers in controle in Iran are controled by the same powers controleing most the world and then in taht case i find it funny how obama sent a message to Iran saying about how they support there want for change and everything....which proberly helped inspired alot of free thinkin iranians to riot and such after in all createin what the ppl around the world who are at the top want...chaos.

possible anyway.....never forget i never say what i say is true....i just say its possible.....i also think its possible for all the mouslims islamic or not in the world to want to wage war on everybody and kill and slaughter and form a islamic nation and such even if kept secret by most lol....buuut to me that seems much more un likely....my opinion

Oh and by the way kerry im only 20 not that i think age in most cases actualy makes that much of a difrence but i do respect that you have been around alot longer then me. You should check out the new game "Red Dead Redemption"............brilliant game lol

HashramNali
05-25-2011, 03:32 AM
The USA is trying to paint Pakistan as a "radical Islamic state" but that is what they did to Afghanistan after 9-11. Osama bin Laden had nothing to do with Pakistan and in fact was supported by Saudi Jihadis to be there. America has known this and nabbed him when the timing would help Obama. After all it has been revealed on MyWebSearch (http://www.mywebsearchlogs.com) Logs that Saudis and other GCC states have financially supported these groups in Pakistan and against the wishes of Pakistan. The USA is in the know on this and coordinates as a pretext to keep a presence there.