View Full Version : a religious free thread...can it be done? Democracy and freedom.

01-06-2005, 08:34 AM
(Please read this post from beginning to end, before posting, as by posting any religious dogma you will highlighting yourself as a distruptor.)

With all due respect, I would cordially request any and all posters to this one specific thread, to please refrain from any and all references to religion. I don't want to be skipping over various religious definitions... while trying to discuss the matter at hand.

This is a social experiment. The question I postulate is whether people who are deeply founded within their various faiths can intelligently discuss a topic without religion entering into the conversation. Can it be done?

Please, please respect the wishes and intentions of this thread and type specifically regarding the subject nature, of the thread.

Any people who set out to specifically go against the nature of this thread will become completely obvious to all posters and admin.

An interesting subject, that would naturally involve God, where God could not be mentioned. God knows why I am doing this. Two topics for discussion.

1.a)Why did the Ukranians get a new election? What is their culture? What did they do to make that happen and why has this not been done in North America?

b) Are there any countries who have successfuly ousted or denied entrance to these NWO types? What countries are these and what did they do? What are their cultures?

If posters cannot appreciate the validity of this experiment, I would respectfully request that you start your own post, about this post. There, you may express any and all religious zeal. Please, not here, not for now - this is a real experiment.


All posters, please agree to ignore any posts of disruption.

01-07-2005, 06:35 AM
Does anyone care that the Ukrane actaully put the kaibosh to a corrupt election process?

Why did they achieve what the U.S. citizenry could not?

Are we all too busy bitching while they did what they had to do to get the job done?

Were they all fighting over dogma and religion? Is CC just a microcosm of global politics? Will we all just continue to bitch while things go from bad to worse?

What can we do? What did they do?

just a thought

mary XXX

01-07-2005, 02:11 PM




01-07-2005, 05:16 PM
Yes, I care but I don't have good answer for your questions-- just some guesses.

01-07-2005, 05:23 PM
The Yanks are all asleep to even know what

happened ... boy I never thought Americans

would be THAT stupid ... the educational

system and rap music is having a good effect.

01-07-2005, 06:02 PM
Max, please offer up your guess...

I have absolutely no idea and that is why I posted this thread. I bet the first thing that made a difference was the media though.

I want to know if anyone knows any people from there... What motivated these poeple and how did they achieve their goal? What stirred the fires?

Is it that that specific population of that country had not been dumbed down enough to swallow the NWO agenda?

I haven't got a clue and I think it's important to understand, for whatever reason. Are Ukranians smarter than Americans via the school system they are raised through?

What state is the American school in? Canadian schooling is a drug-induced sex fest of ignorance.


01-07-2005, 06:12 PM
Amerikan schools are just as much in the toilet as Canada except here the toilet has already been flushed. There's no turning back now. As for my take on what happened with the Russia, I think it's all theater in that it just looks like they got rid of the bad guys. I apologize if this has a negative vibe to it, but that's just the way I see things these days. :-P

01-07-2005, 07:07 PM
Mary.. I have a conspiracy theory of why the Ukraine deal happened..

First of all Putin pissed off the Rothschilds by throwing one of his minions that they financially backed during the privatization of Russia, under that drunkin' Yeltson.. into prison.. for tax evasion of $23 billion. note

That pissed off the neocons (Israelis) that run the government of the U.S.. (With approval of the Rothies who own Israel)

So a bomb kills a bunch of children in the school.. and according to the Russians.. The organizers of the attack are the Rothies.. They used their Massad unit to do the deed.

Putin goes to Israel to ask for help in anti terrorism.. (extortion)

So the elections come up in the Ukraine's and the bums in the western section of their country.. ( no money is ever created there)..

George Sorros and the other international money changers that represent the NWO.. have been overturning democratically elected governments for that last fifty years, to suit the Rothies.

The economy of the Eastern Ukraine is where the wealth is produced in that county.. The eastern Ukrainians want to keep on making money.. they like the other guy.. and their language is Russian

All of the Yushchenko people of his orange revolution were paid by the NWO.. or NGO's.. to revolt against the winner of the election, if he happened to be pro Russian.

The NWO hates Putin, and is trying to destroy that nation.. Because Putin said that the Russian natural resources should be for the Russians instead of the Devil and his minions.. Russia lost 30 million White Christian Russians to these internationalist creeps.. during Communism.. He drew the line in the sand.. Good for him.

Viktor Yushchenko is the puppet of the NWO.. being lured in by the EU.. also controlled by the Rothies.. He is wanted for looting the nation of his birth, and his fellow politicians are worse.

Democracy as I see it is not a joke.. It is the crime of the century.. and perpetrators of it should be hung..

Democracy and public opinion are controlled by the press.. We are slaves to what we read and believe to be true.. Let's forget about political elections and just elect the editors of our news sources.

It's all media manipulation by NWO that own all of the news.. They don't like the internet..
After the next big "terrorist attack", we will shut it down in the name of National Security.

That's my conspiracy theory.

Damn I had names and daTes before my text editor went down.. I can prove this stuff.

And that is just the first question...gotta go to diner.

01-07-2005, 07:08 PM
Also, keep in mind that history points out time and time again that no matter what anything good happens, is usually subverted by corruption sooner or later. :pint:

01-07-2005, 08:09 PM
Nohope.. you are right.. hic-up.

01-07-2005, 08:22 PM
I have to say there is a distinctive ring of truth sable and hope, in your theory. Basically, it's WWF as usual? Like a poorly acted soap opera or Wrestlemania?

Any other theories floating about?

Would it be truthful in assuming that most of the world is ignorant, not by choice, but by being subjected to lies when seeking the truth?

Hope, don't apologise, please. Sometimes the truth is very negative and that is just the way it is. You have the courage to speak it. Cheers to you both. Hic up. Time for a refill.


P.S. Sable... I can't wait to here your take on the next part. Such a clever old sea dog is sable. I would also love to hear more of what others percieve. Makes life much more interesting huh?


01-07-2005, 09:11 PM
I think Sable is very well-versed on this subject, and I go along with everything he said. I would only add that I am not so optimistic about Putin's ultimate objectives. He seems more Stalinist than nationalist; remember Henry's articles about the "Red Symphony", and how Stalin stood up to the Illuminati initially until they gave him the deal he wanted.
I also enjoyed the delicious irony of Bushco officially protesting the election in the Ukraine and then being informed by the international election monitors that the process was less corrupt than the American presidential election of 2004.

01-07-2005, 09:14 PM
Makes a lot of sense, as always. freeman.
Isn't it nice not to have to deal with religious distraction of a rediculous nature?


01-07-2005, 09:25 PM
Isn't it nice not to have to deal with religious distraction of a rediculous nature?


01-07-2005, 09:30 PM

01-07-2005, 10:21 PM
Lo and behold . . . Ahmad hasn't touched this thread . . . and neither will I . . . for obvious reasons (I rant too much)

Bravo mary . . . you've managed to have a thread without mention of . . . whoops . . . caught myself . . .

JK . . . I'm sorry.

I love your post's mary . . . very heartfelt, occasionally humorous, and FIREY (I really like that. . . lol) You're a helluva gal, don't EVER let anyone tell you otherwise . . . I don't always agree with you, but hey . . . if we all agreed, what would we debate (or argue) about?

01-08-2005, 08:01 AM

I thoroughly enjoy reading your posts! Always insightful. The wit in this forum, including yours, and freemans and so many others is delicious!

Please add your comments as I would really like to know your perspective. All posters to this thread appreciate the depth of your beliefs, know when you are coming from and I am certain, your thoughts alone will speak loud and clear, without bringing "religion" onto this thread.

Please try, as I am certain you can and I want to know what you think.

P.S. Thanx for compliments. It is really nice to be appreciated, as corny as that sounds. For me, this is a think tank and I am part of the gang (big cheesy grin!)

I've been "seeking" some like minds and lo and behold, I found you guys. Cyber space would not have been my first choice, for obvious reasons - I don't know who is typing behind the keys, nor do I know their intentions. That point has been exemplified in this forum, in my estimation.

And where else would I be speaking daily to people all over? For me, there is not enough gold and diamonds in the world that could pay for the valuable education, I am recieving here. Thanks Henry!

I rant and ramble on too DC. I managed to say what I wanted bar religion and I am sure you all caught what I meant. The quotation marks give away the double meaning of the word seeking. "How" I was seeking, I did not tell you all and, I am certain you can get it right, first guess. Did I prove my point?

Firey. Yeah, I am. No denial. I call it passionate. I am a happy go lucky determined mum of 3 and when anyone messes with my family or my friends, I am over-protective... no doubt. I wouldn't want to be on my bad side. And in saying that... I get along really well with a lot of different people - it is so cool. I just have a low tolerance for assholes, if you know what I mean.

If you place belief in that chinese astrology stuff, I am a fire horse - a rare breed born every 60 years or something - firey by nature.

I like who I am. I've worked hard to be this person. And I lurve you guys!

R.S.V.P. DC PLAY THE GAME! It is interesting.


(N.B. I had to remove the word "faith" from the above post three times. It kept creeping into my sentence structure. Interesting.)

01-08-2005, 04:35 PM
Okay . . . here we go.

As a man . . . I move through the world of my own accord, without appology, for every move I make on this great chessboard of life, I make after considerable thought.

I love my wife, even though she has the tendency to be a pain in the ass, and she is ignorant of most topics in their true nature. For some reason, the views of the media is more important to her then the one man who loves her, reguardless of who she is or what she does. And yes, I do trash her every so often. If I didn;t I would not be honest to myself or to the rest of you. The fact that I can talk about my wife the way I do, and still love her unconditionally, must prove something to this crowd. And by the way . . . anyone who talks shit about her has ME to answer to. No doubt.

I love my daughter, to the ends that I border on obsession. However, I use restraint when she is about to fall down while sh's trying to stand up (as an example, if she was going to fall out of her highchair or crib or something, I would most definitely get her before she fell) because I know that although I do not wish to see her land on her tushy, I know that we learn through our mistakes.

I've always loved a good physical fight. It helps tone the muscles of the body . . . it helps the mind become stronger (through the will to keep fighting after you've been hurt) . . . and it keeps the spirit strong through that will. In all martial arts, physical tests are also tests for the mind. I'm a former student of the Northern Praying Mantis Kung Fu Style of Martial Arts . . . 12 years at that. I know more ways to incapacitate a man with my fingertips than Carter has Liver Pills . . . however, I was not allowed to learn these until I learned how to counteract the harmful effects of a strike, as well as experiencing the excruciating pain of a pressure point strike. I had to learn what my opponent was feeling, and to have compassion for my enemy first. Good method of learning if you ask me.

I am also a 3D artist, as well as a 2D artist. All computer generated . . . my hands are not steady enough to draw anymore, at the ripe old age 27 years . . . due to nerve damage in a street fight about 5 years ago. I don't drop the 'n bomb' often, but I was attacked by three niggers (and yes, thats EXACTLY what they were) in the parking lot of a club. I was drunk, and I was stabbed twice, but I had enough of my discipline instilled in me that I almost killed one with a finger-tip strike to the head . . . and the other two I knocked unconscious, one through the pain he felt from my counter attack, and the other by being thrown directly on his head. I had my day in court, it was ruled self defense, and I was redeemed.

I learned to shoot at a very young age. Rifles, handguns, bow and arrow, and crossbow. My redneck uncle taught me all I needed to know about gun samety, and how to use them in case some filthy foreign power came to take us over. I've been on hunting trips with him just about every year since I was 10, and I've bagged just about every type of animal that was allowed by Pennsylvania law. We always ate what we killed, and whatever we couldn't use we either sold or gave away. Maybe not the most noble thing to do, but hey, I'm being honest.

Now . . . my political views . . . hold on tight.

Normally, I live by the words live and let live . . . however, I have been blessed with second sight recently, so I now live to erradicate the toold through which the corrupt exploit us.

Until recently I was a democrat. Now I will vote for Mickey Mouse from here on in. Since the lesser of two evils is no longer good enough for me, I'd rather waste my vote then not vote at all.

But on an even more serious note . . . here are my views on the following topics . . .

I believe that men and women should be equal. We both have our roles based on the individual family unit. Some men make more money than their wives, and they should go to work. The women who make more maney at work, should stay working. Not to say I love money TOO much (however, it is nice to have everything I need for my family to be comfortable) but I saw the first truth to feminism the first time I noticed that girls were not icky anymore. What made men . . . who were physically stronger . . . cower down to a small woman just because she is mad? I'm still trying to answer this for myself . . . becasue I do not cower down to my wife, nor have I cowered to any woman. But this girls are better than boys shit has to stop. Neither is better than the other. We are different, yes, and that has its advantages.

I do not appreciate homosexuality being shoved down my throat. I do not appreciate being hit on by men at a broadway play. I do not appreciate the art field and the fashion field and the cosmetology field being over run with homosexual men and influences. I wanted to be a hair dresser for a short time . . . have you ever seen all the hot ass that walks into a salon in a day? Maybe it's a shallow reason, but I was 14 at the time. I use hair salons on a regular basis to get my haircuts rather than a barber shop . . . because I KNOW the girl who cuts my hair is going to flirt with me so I'm more inclined to give a better tip. It boosts my self confidence, and at least I can go home to my wife, knowing that I have the sensibility that although I did this purposefully, I knew that nothing was going to come of it, and I feel a bit better about myself. It may be wrong, but psychology most certainly tells us that women, other than a man's spouse, that compliment the man will bolster the ego of the man more than the 'biased' opinion of his spouse. The same feelings go for women as well, I'm sure. The point is, its NATURAL for men and women to mix in this way, not two men, and not two women. I do have an easier time accepting (to use that word mildly) female homosexuality than male homosexuality . . . because I am attracted to women and not men, that, and because women are naturally more affectionate than men, so this is easier for me to stomach.

I do not appreciate homosexuality being promoted on most of the television stations . . . being that a mere 3 to 5 percent of the world is homosexual. It is reminiscent of the army recruitment commercials that are shown on TV from time to time. The hidden message says, "hey big boy, join uth. we jutht love thtrait men." The fact of the matter here is, these men want to be like women. A woman ALWAYS wants more things that she cannot have, or things that are most difficult to attain. Its not because they are necessarily envious or gold diggers, but they are more up to a challenge. However, I love a good challenge, but I enjoy being challenged to create impossible imagry in a freakish amount of time on my computer . . . a person's heart has never been a valid form of challenge to me. Peoples' emotions are not toys . . . they are fragile parts of the self-image that dictate how we are driven to do what we will do that day, from the time we get up, till the time we lay back down. This is where the 'wrong side of the bed' terminology came from, and its true.


I don't want the government seeing what I am doing at all times. There is no need for it. I'm not the best person in the world, but I do not need a mommy or daddy looking over my shoulder. I was taught well as a kid, even though my mom was a bit of a ding-bat, she is where my artistic nature is derived from. My father was another story . . . he was tough, but fair. And they taught me the things I needed to know, as well as how to make decisions for myself . . . not just to follow orders blindly. I believe that this, as well as my trials and tribulations, my errors, my pains, etc. (and my unavoidable beliefs in spirtuality) has made me the man I am today. Why should Uncle Sam or Advertizers or Marketing Agencies need to know all there is about me? I think that THEY should have enough sense to put the RIGHT messages out to us, make the RIGHT products for us, and let us make our own decisions. If we lived in a better world, they wouldn't feel the NEED to watch over us the way they do . . . unfortunately, THEY fucked up this world in the name of material possessions and bottom lines . . . and so they have to hide their mistakes and make sure anyone who knows that they are not infallable stays quiet. It sounds more like a guilty consience than religiously based reasons to me, but I cannot help but wonder the real root of it all. And I cannot help that my faith drives me more than my political views.


"A banker is the first person to loan you their umbrella when it is sunny out, and ask for it back when it starts raining."

They are all scumbags. They all want to make money by manipulating numbers over the course of time and percentage . . . and are all mathematician wanna-be's who are not smart enough to know the difference between Pathagorean theorum and Gaussian functions. All these bankers are merely glorified accountants that want to get rich quick. They do not care who they ruin, and if they can get most of the money they loan you, along with countless amounts of interest (payment for the favor of loaning you the cash in the first place) AND the property you got through the loan, they're happy. A banker's self-worth is not measured by love or by affection. They are driven by bragging rights. That's even more shallow than the reason I wanted to learn hair-dressing for that very short amount of time. At least I was looking for companionship (the only way a raging hormone 14 year old can understand).


Well, well, well . . . the law is the one place that evil can corrupt the whole system . . . I know that religion is not welcome here . . . but this only borders on the topic . . . has anyone here ever seen "the Devils Advocate?" I must say, that this is the closest explaination that makes the best sense.

Again . . . its driven by money-hunger. The reason most (not all) students of law chose to get into it in the first place is because of the money . . . ESPECIALLY CRIMINAL LAW. Almost nobody ever says that they want to save the wrongly accused . . . its because they bring in more money than any other type of lawyer . . . second to LAWSUIT ATTOURNEYS.

These lawsuit assholes are a breed unto themselves. Does anyone realize how REDICULOUS a class action suit is? Its the only lawsuit that makes the lawyer unconsionable amounts of money, and saves the corporation from the potential danger of going broke from individual awards, while fucking the people, who get a mere fraction of what they deserve. Any company that got slapped with a class action suit probably HIRED the class action attourney on their own . . . to save them from individual suits which can reap more damage. If I was a CEO, I'd ratehr get hit with a class action . . . how about you?

AND WHY IS EVRY FUCKING POLITICIAL, SAVE FOR A FEW, ALL EX-LAWYERS? This just affirms my belief that these LAWYERS are not satisfied with ALL THE MONEY they have made, so they have to coax bribes from lobbyists to MAKE NEW LAWS for their favor . . . Does anyone else see how BACKWARDS THIS IS? I mean, its just so backwards . . . its actually perplexing to the degree that I cannot explain my views sufficiently enough without making it seem like I'm double talking also.

And the FCC . . . (I'm an American, so this is what we call the Federal Communications Commission) . . . this is not an elected body . . . is is an apponted one. And these are the people who dictate what we are allowed to see and hear on television and radio. So the government decided . . . all by themselves . . . that they were going to choose who is going to decide what we are allowed to see and hear? The same self-righteous bastards say its not okay to see titties . . . which is what babies use to sustain life and get the best form of antibodies . . . but its okay to see two guys kissing each other in a religious-type wedding scenario . . . making a mockery of the family unit? These people . . . who said its okay for EVERY SNGLE SHOW ON THE NETWORKS DURING PRIME-TIME to contain rabid-man-hating-feminism, homosexuality, cheating on the spouse, murder, theft, and a whole host of other things that represent wrong-doing that provides us with fantasies of committing wrong doing . . . and wishing we could get AWAY with it?

Lawyers should be buried 12 feet down when they die instead of the traditional 6 feet . . . deep down, they're good people.


Well, well, well . . . here we have a whole bunch of people that we give money to to help 'find a cure' that will never be released. What you're donating to is a bunch of people that want to keep us as sick as humanly possible without allowing us to die peacefully in the name of the almighty dollar. These people are rapidly climbing the ranks, in a race to be worse than lawyers. I really don't want to get started on this, becasue it will turn into an angry rant.


More thieves . . . just like drug companies, but with fuel for transportation and heat. Another rant waiting here . . . and so I'm not going into it.


A very unfortunate event, indeed . . . however I cannot confidently give to any cause without fear of paying into the 'powers that be' . . . and so I offer spiritual wishes in its place. If there is a particular thing that they need . . . I would rather send that thing in a mass quantity of some kind than send money. However, I am no longer a rich man, so I'm not able to send either without denying my family some necessities (food, rent, things like that).


This is basicly what I have to say on the above issues . . . there is so much more to me than this also. I'm a very complex person who believes in the simplest best method toward a a problem is a proper solution (path from a to b with no shortcuts) . . . and I'll be happy to debate anyone on any topic that I am familliar with. And I also have the ability to go con on issues that I agree with, because I have been blessed with the sight to see both sides of the coin . . . however . . . I DO believe in this movement . . . and, unless asked to by the poster, I'll never go against anyone for the hell of it . . . I will however disagree at times . . . just as you will disagree with me as well. And no matter how I feel about a view I do not agree with, I do agree that you have a right to have a differing view than mine. Please respect me as I respect you.



01-08-2005, 05:22 PM
Well I guess that sums up the whole forum DC, I might as well log off now. :-P

01-08-2005, 06:29 PM
Dc... thank you so much for your perspective.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

I wish that we all knew our own minds the way you know yours. Your wife and your daughter are very, very "lucky". Normally, I would use another word.

Again, thank you.

I knew you could and we all know your driving force. It is interesting for me to note just how many times words pertaining to religion want to enter all my sentences and I find myself using other words to relay the same suggested meaning.

I am being honest and noticing what I am doing. Thought I'd share. How'd you find it DC? This would be what the NWO would want... a world without the "R" word and it's definitely not easy for me to adhere to... anyone else have any comments?


01-08-2005, 09:35 PM
Because I know that doing things that help people is good, and doing things that hurt people is bad. Giving and recieving is okay, and forcing and stealing are bad.

I'm breaking the challenge to give someone an honorable mention . . . and to answer mary's question.

The reason I don't have to mention God at all is due to the fact that I have already submitted, fully, myself to him. I have willingly allowed Him into my heart . . . therefore, all I think and all I do . . . although sometimes wrong because I am imperfect and is so the way I was 'designed,' the intentions have been engrained in me. This does not mean that I don't need Him, but I know that He knows that I'm doing all I do with the best intentions, if nothing else, in my mind.

Without faith, passages are merely references.

With 'small' faith, references are merely guidelines.

With 'great' faith, guidelines become a way of life.

This is the only answer I could possibly give . . . as it is the only way of life I choose to have.


01-08-2005, 09:55 PM
Thanx agin Dc

I believe we have held within the guidelines. You didn't preach any religion. You mentioned God and faith, not any specific religion or dogma.

You were completely honest in your response. I am amazed to realise how big a part of my life my faith has become. It kind of touches everything.


01-11-2005, 02:32 AM
BTW, Mary . . .

You mentioned Chinese Astrology before . . . I don't know much about what this means, but I am a Dragon. . . Born Early April, 1976. If you have any idea what this is supposed to mean, lemme know, huh? I do believe that it's similar to the Greek Aries, and if it is, I guess I got blessed with a double whammy.

If this is true, I should most definitely have an 'Alpha male ego' but I don't. I have been told (by asian and greek women alike) that I have a VERY strong masculine energy.

I don't really believe much in chinese or greek ancient mysticism, but if anyone knows what a 'strong masculine energy' is supposed to mean, please let me know.

You gotta understand the way I think. The first time I was told that I had that 'energy,' I lifted my arm smelled my armpit to see if I was stinky. I wasn't, at least, I don't think I was.

01-15-2005, 10:07 PM
hey dark :-)

on the thread's topic,

There is no true "democracy and freedom" on any "religious free" thread.


01-15-2005, 10:10 PM
A God-free thread is a satanic one i believe.

01-15-2005, 10:24 PM
hey dark :-)

on the threads topic,

There is no true "democracy and freedom" on any "religious free"thread. : -)

01-15-2005, 10:53 PM

I once read it on a place mat in London at a chinese restaurant. Ohhhhhhhh. I miss that food. Real chinese food cooked with real chinese ingredients by real chinese people. Absolutely divinely delicious.

That's the beauty of having different cultures... different people, different food, different clothes, different religions, different faiths. Wouldn't the world be a beautiful place if all faiths were good? And the evil just disappeared? No more hatred. No more evil. That would be nice.

The NWO would all have us wearing our mow suits.

Don't place any faith in that astology stuff. I believe you are who you believe yourself to be by your thoughts and actions.

I read the place mat and thought... I like those attributes, to some of the thoughts. I think I'll work on those. That's about it. Don't know hardly nothing regarding that folklore. And I'm sure there's a little truth in everything.

Mary XXX