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nakedsnake
05-13-2005, 04:12 AM
I see looking around this forum there are at least 2 Masons (yeoshua and someone else).
Im just curious as to what rank and affilation you guys hold, and this being a conspiracy site,
and the Masonic movement being historically involved in so much of it.
What is your view in such matters, Please dont rip some long monolouge out of some site, just your honest opinions.
To all others im really curious to entertain this conversation, so if you feuded with any of these Masons or so-called Masons in the past, please refrain.
Im going to work now, Ill check back later. peace to all...

Yeoshua
05-13-2005, 04:26 AM
I am at least a Master Mason (although TB - bless his little cotton socks doesn't think so).

I believe that because Freemasonry for so long has been too insular and secretive that we became an easy target for blame.

I do not believe that Freemasonry is at the root of the NWO.

I do believe in the globalist control of this planet.

I do believe in an engineered NWO.

I believe that members of the globalist force infiltrated Freemasonry as it was easy to hide their own secrets within the rank and file.

A true Freemason is pure of heart.

I believe there is an incredible ammount of evil in this world, by the same token, I believe that it is all too easy to point a finger of blame at others and not ourselves.

I became a Freemason, because I wanted my children to need for nothing if anything happened to me.

I believe that there has been a branch of Freemasonry that has been corrupted and interpreted wrongly. A bit like Jehovas Witnesses from the Mormon faith.

I believe in, and revere God.

truebeliever
05-13-2005, 04:26 AM
Honest opinions?

Actually we should start a "Western Intelligence Service - Truth Out" thread.

I'm sure many honest opinions will follow.

FMB is a fraud or paid P.R man. What do you expect...

However...i shall keep out.

Carry on...

truebeliever
05-13-2005, 04:51 AM
Sorry...could'nt resist...

A true Freemason is pure of heart.

So pure he must join a secret society. In fact...you do not become on a whim a Freemason...you must be part of the clique of Masonry to begin with or on there wanted list...ie: law enforcement...judiciary etc...

My ex-girlfriends Step Father was not recruited by Masons for his good looks but because he is a millionare noodle factory and tuna farm operator.

I became a Freemason, because I wanted my children to need for nothing if anything happened to me.

Insurence not good enough? How about a close relative? Hey, they do it for the kiddies. Oh yes, they do love kiddies the Masons.

I believe that members of the globalist force infiltrated Freemasonry as it was easy to hide their own secrets within the rank and file.

Now that IS funny! The membership of the Business Class infiltrate themselves to further the Business/Financial class agenda!

I believe that there has been a branch of Freemasonry that has been corrupted and interpreted wrongly.

Oh yeh...the old naughty European Continentals versus the conservative and decent U.K branch. Yawn, yawn...

I believe in, and revere God.

Exactly which God? Masons worship ANY God where Masonry exists...so Masonry's a Christian organisation? No, it's not...then stop pushing the cult as a decent, fraternal Christian organisation which it constantly does...it leeches on where ever it needs to to further it's goals. It's core has NOTHING to do with Christianity so kindly cease and desist...you are at heart a Pagan if not outright Satanic cult dedicated to the worship of Man as God...in NO need of ridiculous superstition and a supernatural God...out there.

I'll ask this once and bother YOU or this thread NO MORE...

Do you revere and believe in the God as Espoused by the New Testament and the life and times of Christ?

A simple yes or no will PERFECTLY suffice.

If no then explain in as direct terms as possible the God you actually 'revere' and I'll bother this thread no more as NS has asked.

Yeoshua
05-13-2005, 05:15 AM
I became a Freemason, because I wanted my children to need for nothing if anything happened to me.

Insurence not good enough? How about a close relative? Hey, they do it for the kiddies. Oh yes, they do love kiddies the Masons.


You're bang out of order TB, the mood I'm in today, if you'd have said that to my face, I'd smash your fucking stupid teeth down your throat.

And no I don't believe in the God of the New Testament.

Ahmad
05-13-2005, 05:25 AM
Peace be upon you Yeoshua,

I for one believe you are a sincere worshipper of the one god alone. There is a strong tendency in us to put the people in one basket, to generalize and condemn a stereotype. Many of the conspiracy writers fell in that trap, they are not better than the Germans who condemned ALL Jews or now the American patriots who condemn ALL muslims.

God commands us to be ABSOLUTELY sure before condemning anyone, for even among the satanists there must be some innocent victims .

My perception of freemasonry so far is that it has some roots in Solomon's era, at some point it went underground because of the persecution and to this day they maintained the secrecy and ofcourse as any other religion alot of injections were added.

However anyone who believes in God alone, in all His messengers as well as the Judgment day will surely be redeemed.

Just ignore the ignorant.

P.s: Yes i mean you TB.

truebeliever
05-13-2005, 06:01 AM
Actually, sincerely, i did'nt mean you personally. Not at all.

But i sure know the Conservative Masons down under.

But thank you for answering my question. Sincerely.

BTW...i assure you my 110kg of fast twitch muscle fibres will see me through.

My teeth are beautifully white and straight and will likely remain so even after my death.

Best to you. You ACTUALLY answered a straight question. Well done. It seems i've finally trained you to jump through a hoop!

As for you Ahmed...i guess when you have no friends on a forum...anyone will do.

You make a beautiful couple.

Ahmed...you're full of rightous shit.

Fuck peace be upon you...i bring a sword and it tells me you are an incredibly rigid person because if you ever had a good look inside you'd find a little boy desperately looking for something to cling to...you worship God? No Ahmed, you worship a number. A concept so ridiculous i've actually been gentle with you.

Get a life and get pissed for Allah's sake. Attend a titty bar or dance around naked under an apple tree with your buddy FMB.

I'll bet you Ahmed I'm still here in 10-20 years time and your still telling me the end is near.

You'll get it sooner or later.

Some have a personal relationship...others require a number and a set or instructions.

BTW...sorry NS. I tried. I really did!

Ahmad
05-13-2005, 06:50 AM
Well truebeliever,


Since i will not use the same obscene language as yours, i will just make some brief commenst here,

1- Sooner or later you will know that the number you are rediculing is God's proof that confirms the message of one god alone, a message that you failed repeatedly to understand, the number is nothing without a message behind it.

2- Sooner or later you will know that having a foul mouth is not something to brag about, you should be ashamed of yourself.

3- Sooner or later you will know that unjust stereotyping will cost you alot.

4- and last your Jinn-companion seems to be abusing you, your real voice is sometimes heard but it's too faint, only you can confront your companion and reclaim control of your mind, body and tongue!

truebeliever
05-13-2005, 06:58 AM
If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck it...is.

You are full of shit Ahmed and need to be told so.

My foul mouth serves me well.

Shit is shit whatever form it takes and from whoevers mouth it comes.

You are a fundamentalist in search of a set of rules to keep you from uncertainty and doubt.

You cling to your number like a child to it's favourite Teddy Bear.

You have not an ounce of compassion and hide behind your ridiculous number like a whipped man behind his fat overbearing wife.

God gave me my personality and a brain to use it and weild it. Beleieve me...you hav'nt seen me in full swing...i've humoured you long enough.

You are a fraud. A complete and utter fraud.

Ahmad
05-13-2005, 07:11 AM
Actually you TB are the fraud, like Michael Jackson who left the steering wheel to his Jinn-(devil)-companion. Where is the real Brendon? do you still even remeber your real self?

For example you say now that i haven't an ounce of compassion, a couple of days ago you said i am the best Christian of all !?!?

Try to think about that, you should recognize that there is a separate entity running your life, but you are to blame, you even defend your decision to let that other entity in chrage, you use the famous excuse of 'i don't lie, this is my personality', well God didn't create you with a foul mouth!, you are the one who is using that mouth, aren't you?

rid yourself of the continous distractions, go back in memory and i am sure you will remeber God willing your real, innocent pure self.

Yeoshua
05-13-2005, 07:35 AM
TB

Firstly from none of Ahmad's posts has he ever stated he worships a number, from what he's said, he worships Allah.

Secondly - Geometry is a subject close to my heart.

Thirdly, mathematics and philosophy are inextricably linked.

And finally TB, have you ever heard of the divine ratio? Phi? (No, not Pi)

http://goldennumber.net/

More proof in an intelligence greater than yours.

truebeliever
05-13-2005, 08:02 AM
Over to you NS..again, i have been self indulgent at the expense of your original request and for that i am truly sorry.

As for anything and everyone else...i hope your cults give you the meaning in your lives you so obviously require.

Max
05-13-2005, 01:21 PM
I find this thread very dis-heartening since I have admired writings from all involved.

Yeoshua- I have no reason to believe you personal are disingenuous and you do present yourself as a positive person. Perhaps some will say I am being deceived but I will only view you by your words here and what you contribute. One question for you, do you have to pay any dues to the masons? If so, how can you be assured that that money is not funding corruption?

Truebeliever- I greatly admire your practicality in fighting the NWO, we seem to be on the same wavelength on that. One thing that I have found out on beliefs however (particular religious) is that, in a large way, they don't matter- especially when fighting the NWO. I think the Bible and Jesus' teachings can be useful tools to aid us in how to live a proper life in how the NWO can be fought. If someone wants to believe something that I can't prove wrong (which there is almost nothing in which I really can) then I see no harm in leaving people to their faith.

Ahmad- your adherence to your principles, even under attack shows great character to me and I do stand with you in wanting to spread peace and love. I may not always necessary agree with some specifics of your faith and prefer to hold back some of my own but I appreciate the goodness.


Now, to be more on topic- I've never had any affiliation to a Masons but I have known one and am friends with his daughter and her husband. I've known all these people before I became NWO aware and only learned of his affiliation from his mason ring that I noticed the first time I saw him after I learned of the NWO. The mason in question is a master woodworker (obvious connection) and someone I had admired, I guess I can still be paranoid but I have no issues in this case.

nakedsnake
05-13-2005, 07:14 PM
WOW! I got got back from work to numerous notifications on this post. Yeoshua, I thank you for answering, and regret that it turned out as it did.

So your a Master Mason that means you are Blue Lodge correct?
I think mature students of the conspiracy dont blame all of Masonry, but honestly certain masonic organisations historically have been less than sincere and have worked to destabilise goverments(Propoganda 2 for example).
I also know the secrecy works against the public relation image of Masonry, coupled with the negative aspects of the history of Masonry.

I also know that Masonry is not the root of the NWO, but has been used by the Illuminati since 1776, confirmed by the writings of Robison and Baurrel during their own era.The infaltration aspect by the globalist is correct as Weishaupt admits it in his writings. (See Proofs of a conspiracy by John Robinson).

Globalist control is a given that is why we are all here.

The branches that you feel have been corrupted are the speculative degrees The York rite and the Scottish rite and it is with these so-called higher degrees that the members of these degrees say the Blue degres are for the uninitiated, they claim the blue degrees are for the vulgar, and the real secrets of Masonry is Lucifer worship, other occultist confirm this, esoteric teachers like alice bailey.

I know your going to say they are qouting it out of context, but other Masonic writers have confirmed it.

read this when you get a chance to see what I mean

http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Freemasonry.htm

Since you are only blue degree do you think there is a possibility that you are being deceived?

Since they are a higher rank and world traveled Masons, and in some cases revered as Masonic autorithies, do you think they might have some insight that you might not have?

this last question if you feel uncomfortable answering on the post E-mail me at Roccolon1@msn.com

What is your concept of what or who God is?

again I apoligise for the hard time you had on this thread, that was not my intention.

Weishaupt
05-13-2005, 11:19 PM
During the installation of a new WM, AS gives the true meaning of what it means to be a Mason. I wish that more people in the World would follow that advice.

Yeoshua
05-16-2005, 08:39 AM
Weishaupht - Did you really have to pick that name?

I mean, talk about pouring petrol on the fire..........

Inner Guard, after Master Masons withdraw, closes and locks door and resumes seat.
Past Master, assisted by another Past Master if necessary, places kneeling stool about five paces from WMís pedestal, positions Master Elect in front of it facing East and resumes seat.
IM: I now declare this a duly constituted Board of Installed Masters. Gavels once, repeated by Senior Warden and Junior Warden.

All rise, the Installed Masters remain standing until the Board of Installed Masters is closed.

IM: The Brethren will turn to the East.
All turn to the East.

IM: Let us pray.
All may rest one knee on convenient seat in action of kneeling and give Sign of Reverence. Brethren in the West will not have such a seat and will therefore remain standing.
Past Master ensures Master Elect kneels on kneeling stool and that he gives Sign of Reverence.

Prayer


IM says Prayer: Vouchsafe Thine aid, Almighty Father and Supreme Governor of the Universe, to this our solemn rite, and grant that the worthy and distinguished Brother, who is now about to be numbered among the Rulers in the Craft, may be endued with wisdom to comprehend, judgment to define, and ability to enforce obedience to Thy Holy Law, Sanctify him with Thy Grace, strengthen him with Thy Power, and enrich his mind with genuine knowledge, that he may the better be enabled to enlighten the minds of his Brethren, and consecrate this our mansion to the honour and glory of Thy Holy Name.
IPM: So mote it be.
All drop Sign of Reverence, and turn to former position.
Past Master ensures Master Elect rises and that he continues to stand in the same place; then, assisted by another Past Master if necessary, replaces kneeling stool in front of WMís pedestal.
IM: You have already taken a Solemn Obligation as regards your duties as Master of this Lodge; you will now advance and take another Obligation with respect to the secrets restricted to the Masterís Chair. ME advances to pedestal Kneel on both knees, place both hands on the Volume of Sacred Law ME does so. IM ensures ME removes gloves, if worn.

Installing Master gavels once, repeated by Senior Warden and Junior Warden.

All take Step and give Master mason Penal Sign.

IM: Repeat your name at length and say after me: I, ..., in the presence of the Most High, and before this Board of Installed Masters, duly constituted and regularly assembled, of my own free will and accord, do hereby with left hand touches one or both hands of Master Elect and hereon with left hand touches Volume of Sacred Law most solemnly promise and swear that I will for ever conceal and never divulge any or either of the secrets or mysteries restricted to the Master's Chair to anyone in the world, unless it be to an Installed Master, or to a Candidate duly elected to that Office, nor then unless assisted by two or more Installed Masters regularly assembled for that purpose. All these points I solemnly swear to observe, without evasion, equivocation, or mental reservation of any kind. So help me the Most High and preserve me inviolate in this my Solemn Obligation of an Installed Master.
All cut Sign and recover.
IM: As a pledge of your Fidelity and to render this a Solemn Obligation you will seal it with your lips thrice on the Volume of Sacred Law. Master Elect does so.
IM: The symbolic penalty which a Master Elect was formerly called on to repeat in his Obligation was that of having his right hand s o a sl o h l s t t w a d Master Electís hands remain on Volume of Sacred Law.
IM: Let me once more direct your attention to the three great though emblematical Lights in Freemasonry, the Volume of Sacred Law, the Square, and Compass. The Sacred Volume, that great Light in Masonry, will guide you to all truth, direct your steps in the paths of happiness, and point out to you the whole duty of man. The Square will teach you to regulate your life and actions according to the Masonic line and rule. The Compass remind you to limit your desires in every station of life, that rising to eminence by merit you will live respected and die regretted. Leaves pedestal by left side and goes to right of Master Elect, with right hand takes Master Electís right wrist from above, places left hand on Master Electís left breast near shoulder and presses Master Elect backwards with left hand so that he rises to his feet.
IM as ME rises: Rise .... Wheels Master Elect backwards so that he is at South side facing across Lodge, releases hands, and steps back a few paces.

IM facing ME: It is traditionally reported that when the Temple at Jerusalem was completed, King Solomon, attended by a numerous retinue, went to view it. On entering the building, observing Adoniram at a distance, he beckoned him thus indicates to Master Elect that he should copy and gives Bowing Sign thrice with right hand by extending right arm horizontally sideways and bending at the elbow moping the hand to the right shoulder as if bowing, at the same tune turning his head to the right. Ensures Master Elect copies and then drops right arm to side.

IM: On approaching his Royal Master, Adoniram was about to kneel, which the King prevented by taking him thus steps towards Master Elect and takes latterís right wrist in his right hand saying places his left hand underneath Master Electís right arm close to wrist Rise simultaneously slides his left hand up Master Elect's right forearm to elbow and raises arm, then replaces Master Electís right arm back at his side and steps back.
IM: The signification of the word is ex mason. When the royal party were about to retire, he saluted them thus indicates to Master Elect that he should copy and gives Sign of Hy by moving right foot slightly back and bending body slightly forward, at the same time making a sweeping gesture with right hand from left shoulder to behind and outside right leg. Ensures Master Elect copies and then stands as before in token of humility. Hence are derived the G and word ... of an Installed Master and the Sign and salutation of a Master of Arts and Sciences.
Past Master ensures that Badge is available and assists to remove from Master Elect his Master Mason's Badge and replace it with that of an Installed Master.

Installing Master goes forward to Master Elect, fits Badge, holds it momentarily: I now invest you with the Badge takes off collar of Worshipful Master and invests Master Elect and Jewel of your office, which is the highest honour the Lodge has in its power to confer on any of its members. The Square holding Square in left hand being the implement which forms the rude and proves the perfect mass, is well applied by Master Masons to inculcate the purest principles of piety and virtue. Masonically speaking, it should be the guide of all your actions releases Square, at option, either after Ďvirtueí or after Ďactionsí.
Installing Master takes right wrist of Master Elect with his right hand, places left hand on Master Electís left shoulder and instructs him to place his left hand on Installing Masterís left shoulder.
Installing Master whispers to Master Elect to step off with left foot and then, moving backwards starting with right foot leads Master Elect to North side of Worshipful Masterís pedestal and into pedestal till Master Elect is standing in front of Worshipful Masterís Chair.
IM: With the Grip and Word of an Installed Master I now place you in the Chair of King Solomon, by pressure of his hands makes Master Elect sit in Chair and releases hands, feeling fully satisfied your future conduct will justify the choice the Brethren have made steps back on South side of pedestal to allow enough room and salutes Master Elect with Sign of Hy.

IM, on South of WM, takes up Gavel and hands it to new WM: I now place in your hand this Gavel which is an emblem of power and will enable you to preserve order in the Lodge, especially in the East indicates to WM to replace Gavel.
IM: You will now invest the Immediate Past Master hands collar to WM.

WM rises: Brother ..., I have much pleasure in investing you with this jewel places Collar on him as the Immediate Past Master of the Lodge, feeling assured from the manner in which you have transacted the business of the Lodge during your Mastership, that should I at any time require assistance, my reliance on your co-operation will not be misplaced shakes hands with IPM and sits.
IM on South of WMís pedestal: Brethren, you will now greet our newly installed Brother as Installed Masters with five, taking the time from me faces WM to order, Brethren takes Step and give Greeting Sign, the meeting of the hands together and with the sides being made audibly.
All take Step when IM does and give Greeting Sign audibly in unison with IM.
IM on South of WMís pedestal: I now declare this Board of Installed Masters closed leans across pedestal, gavels once, repeated by Senior Warden and Junior Warden.
All sit, except Installing Master.
IM on South of WMís pedestal: Brother Inner Guard, admit Master Masons.
Installing Master goes to North-East corner of Lodge and stands facing South.

Inner Guard goes to door, opens it, admits Master Masons, closes and locks door and returns to seat.

Yeoshua
05-16-2005, 08:55 AM
Nakedsnake - no, I said; I am at least a Master Mason.

And no, I have undertaken a side degree, so no I am not 'blue lodge'.

When I get around to it I am going to wax lyrical and quote at length how Albert Pike and The Duke of Somerset, destroyed Scottish Rite Freemasonry and turned it into a complete farce, but I can't be arsed at the moment. I'm feeling a bit fluey today. And NO TB, it's not a Colombian cold.

Finally Snake, my beleifs in God are personal to me, and I would rather not discuss them here or anywhere else. Sufficed to say, my God is probably closer to YAWEH or Allah than to the God of the New Teastament.

Max - yes I do pay fees, and I can be sure that they are not used for sinister purposes as I along with every other member of the lodge sit in an annual treasurers report meeting. Any funds left over at the end of the year go into the Almoners Fund (that goes to the widows/children of deceased Masons).........

Max
05-16-2005, 01:37 PM
Thanks Yeoshua. Do the lodges have to pay some type of fee to the higher up organization? If not, how do they get funded? Could anyone start a lodge or are there specific rules that need to be adhered to?

Sorry for so many questions- I'm just curious- hope you can help.

nakedsnake
05-16-2005, 08:28 PM
Yeoshua..

The questions remain maybe you missed them...

Do you think the higher degrees might be misleading you?

Since they are higher rank and world traveled Masons, and in some cases revered as Masonic authorities, do you think they might have some insight that you do not have?

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 06:41 AM
NS I have no idea if fellow brethren are misleading me (note I do not say higher degrees).

And how can you hypothsise what 'rank' I am? I've never told you.

I will reiterate I am at LEAST a MASTER MASON.

I've given you enough clues about CRAFT lodges and CHAPTER lodges...........

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 06:54 AM
Im not implying anything about what rank you are, but it seems you are not 33rd degree.
I know you are AT LEAST a master mason..

as for Craft lodges and chapter lodges it is beside the point..

The point im making is if the true purpose of Masonic lodges is to get the brethen involved and prepared for the higher mysteries which are energy manipulation through Lucifer, their God,
does this concern you?

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 07:05 AM
Lucifer isn't the God of Freemasons at all, Lucifer wasn't even Albert Pike's god, although for the scapegoat merchants tend who to skim read Morals and Dogma jump to a completely erroneous conclusion that it was.

Also Answer me this MT - How can the Son of Dagon? Lord of Darkness be Lucifer the light bringer? A misnomer surely.

Maybe it's a perversion of the fact that Venus was the bringer of light and also symbol of the divine feminie. Which the higher degrees do have reverence for.

The Divine Feminie? The Virgin Mary? Mary Magdalene? Mother Earth?

The 33rd Degree exists in Scottish Rite Freemasonry which I am not.

York Rite is as follows:

1st Degree = EA Freemason
2nd Degree = FC "
3rd Degree = M "
Mark Master
Past Master
Most Excellent Master
Royal Arch Mason
Chapter
Royal Master
Select Master
Superior Master
Order of The Red Cross
Order of the Knights of Malta
Order of the Knights Templar

I do really intend to write at length about the damage done by Albert Pike and his cohorts in their interpretation of Scottish Rite, which has essentially rendered the ritual nonsensical gibberish.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 07:41 AM
Maybe your right and ALL these other Masonic souces are wrong....
http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Freemasonry.htm

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 08:01 AM
Yeah maybe I am, but for all the oddballs that your link details - THEY'RE ALL SCOTTISH RITE


There's not one York Rite Freemason in there.

That's because Abert Pike and The Duke of Sussex did not understand the ritual and writings thereofre they bastardised it.

http://www.mastermason.com/ocalayorkritebodies/structure_of_Masonry.jpg

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 08:11 AM
Yeoshua..
Funny you put that chart as I have the same one, as a reference in my records. I glad it is now verified by someone who is at LEAST A MASTER MASON.

At the top of the York Rite is Knights Templar,
did you know the founder of the Cult Jehova's Witness was a Knight Templar and is buried in a Masonic cementery?

http://www.freeminds.org/history/cemetary.htm

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 09:06 AM
Hmmmmm - Interesing.

Yes, the link you provided does indeed point out that the good Pastor was buried in accordance with his wishes on his family plot.

"Risen with Christ" carved in stone on another side of the pyramid. Cross and crown emblem is on all four sides.

Proof indeed that he must have been a Lucifarian *yawn*

He wasn't a KT or a Freemason, and actually a piss poor Mormon.

So your point is what exactly Snakehips?

Weishaupt
05-17-2005, 09:20 AM
Heh, Nakedsnake... you keep records on these things? LOL... you think that there are any secrets left in Masonry?

People who believe in these silly conspiracy theories are people with mental issues... people who need someone to blame for their failures in life... someone who they can point at and claim they're holding them back. People who join Masonry just to learn "secrets" (there are none... you can find them all online or in books... yes, really) of for getting ahead in life or to become a part of "illuminati" are almost always disappointed, bored, and leave Masonry quickly. I bet most of you here who actually believe that Mason's are conspiring when they meet once or twice a every month would be in for a huge disappointment if you attended a lodge meeting. A lot of Masons are just waiting for the feast which follows the lodge work.

Go and read obligations that ME gives when he's installed. He explicitly swears that he will not conspire against government or anyone else. Same goes for higher, district, offices. Oh, but I'm sure you will all claim how there are higher, hidden, levels of Masonry. That's a complete nonsense. I guess you can believe what you want and if you need a boogeyman in your life, someone you can always come to and blame when you falter and fail at your task, freemasonry will provide you with enough mysticism as a possible "evil force" that's taking over the world. This is all fiction and the fact is that Masonry is getting old and average age of a Mason is over 50 and these people have goals in life which are in opposition to world domination. Also, if you really understand the work then you understand that money and worldly riches are quite irrelevant in life and that life is very short and that you should do something good and leave a mark in your community by helping your community and those in need.

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 09:33 AM
Well said Weishaupt.

However, until you change your name brother, will you please stay off my side?

Ta

MasonTemplar
05-17-2005, 10:22 AM
I was responded to in a post here, but this is the first time I've actually contributed to this particular thread.
I'd say that 99.5% of the masons are good, upstanding people who promote the general welfare of their community. It's the subversives who use the cloak of the lodge to discuss things secretly, like P2, that wreck it for the rest of you guys.
As for my beliefs, I cannot take a blood oath (you can argue that it's symbolic) to a another individual. I can only be beholding to God. It's when someone's allegiances to a fraternal group take precedence over that of their public responsibilities where a problem arises. Unfortunately, it happens more than one might think.
I'll give Yeoshua and Weishaupt credit, they have volunteered more information than most people affiliated with the craft have been willing to do.
I have a very close friend who is a member of both the York Rite and Scottish Rite. He is a 32nd degree mason in the Scottish Rite. I can tell you that he is a great person who devotes much of his time in bettering other people - none of whome are masons.
He is a firm believer in Jesus the Christ.
But, it just can't be denied that nefarious things do happen behind the scenes in some of the lodges. I can't remember exactly where, maybe someone can enlighten me, but I've read how the higher degrees (maybe it's Scottish Rite) are deliberately supposed to deceive the lower initiates.
I was initiated into a fraternity in college. Most of the guys became masons after graduating. Many of them are lawyers, prominent businessmen, or in some sort of legal authority (one guy who was initiated with me went on to become a mason, works for the Secret Service and was the head of detail for former POTUS George HW Bush's speaking engagement at The St. Paul Companies on the morning of 9/11/2001. That is a whole long post in and of itself. He is now VP Cheney's personal detail. He got appointed because of one of our fraternity brother's father - both are masons). Our initiation took place in a masonic temple, with nothing to identify it as such on the outside of the building - at least not to the undiscerning eye. The guy who started our chapter is a mason and is the Grand Consul of the fraternity, as well as being a member of a multi-billion dollar family that owns a prominent traveling company and has a business school named after them at a major university. We were guaranteed jobs by this guy, who is also an executive vp for a computer company, once we graduated from college. Quite a few of the guys went this route.
Sometimes it's more about the networking and advancement of personal interests that motivate these people, and not the ideals of their initiation.
I removed myself from the circle because it didn't feel right. They were awfully materialistic.

Max
05-17-2005, 11:34 AM
Weishaupt wrote:
People who believe in these silly conspiracy theories are people with mental issues... people who need someone to blame for their failures in life... someone who they can point at and claim they're holding them back. ... I guess you can believe what you want and if you need a boogeyman in your life, someone you can always come to and blame when you falter and fail at your task
This sounds like fear based mind control propaganda to me. Regardless, this is a tired and old tool that I keep seeing from disinformation shills, saying "people need to blame someone else for their failures" etc, yet, I don't see honest people ever saying this. Are there any here that have said or implied something to this effect? I personally have many blessing but I don't turn a bind eye to corruption of the Luciferian control systems nor do I even come close to trying to blame someone else for my actions. What a joke that would be.

Perhaps you could clarify your statement Weishaupt- exactly which "silly conspiracy theories" must one "believe" to be labeled to have "mental issues"? Again- I need exact data points please.


Anyway, more to the point, the data that I've seen is in agreement with ManonTemplar- most Masons are good outstanding people but just like the Catholic church it seems that there are subversive elements that operate within its power structure.

My question on how the higher up Mason structure is funded is still open. I stopped giving money to the church since I can't really verify its use- if I want to help the poor I'll have no problem finding someone who needs it.

MasonTemplar
05-17-2005, 02:53 PM
Good points, Max.
I, too, wonder what is meant about needing a boogeyman. There is definite ongoings that pit people, countries, institutions, and social classes against each other. I think it is rather naive to believe that it all just happens to work out this way. It just happened that John Wilkes Booth, a mason and member of the Knights of the Golden Circle (a forerunner to the current Ku Klux Klan), killed President Lincoln? That would be too bad since 30 some odd people were indicted and several hanged in connection with it. I think it's arguably coincidental that Earl Warren and Gerald Ford, both masons, oversaw much of the Warren Commission and that a junior prosecutor named Arlen Specter, a mason, and currently a U.S. Senator from Maryland, came up with the "Magic Bullet Theory." What about J. Edgar Hoover, another mason, who took care of the investigative oversight on the FBI side? In fact, Hoover was so devoted to masonry that his desk from his Director's office of the FBI - along with most other things from the room - is located in the Supreme Temple in Washington D.C. Why isn't it in the National Archives with most other things of that nature? Because of his allegiance. There is some question about whether or not to call Lyndon Johnson a mason - I believe he was only an entered apprentice. He was also a member of my college fraternity.
In the 1950's, almost 50% of the two governing houses in the U.S. were masons. That number has declined because politicians no longer put it in their bios.
But, as for things "just happening" in this world, especially things of political significance, I think another mason, former POTUS Franklin Delano Roosevelt, said it best:

"In politics, nothing happens by accident. If it happened, you can bet it was planned that way."

I'm not saying everything is planned under the ideals of masonry, but the lodge is a great place to network. Were the above mentioned people members of the same lodge? Not likely, but you can bet that they all knew that each was part of the brethren. That's my problem with it. Yeoshua and Weishaupt are good guys and 99% of the masons are, but I know enough historical background of these guys on top to know that not everyone is like that.

Weishaupt
05-17-2005, 03:55 PM
Max wrote:

This sounds like fear based mind control propaganda to me. Regardless, this is a tired and old tool that I keep seeing from disinformation shills, saying "people need to blame someone else for their failures" etc, yet, I don't see honest people ever saying this. Are there any here that have said or implied something to this effect? I personally have many blessing but I don't turn a bind eye to corruption of the Luciferian control systems nor do I even come close to trying to blame someone else for my actions. What a joke that would be.

Perhaps you could clarify your statement Weishaupt- exactly which "silly conspiracy theories" must one "believe" to be labeled to have "mental issues"? Again- I need exact data points please.


Anyway, more to the point, the data that I've seen is in agreement with ManonTemplar- most Masons are good outstanding people but just like the Catholic church it seems that there are subversive elements that operate within its power structure.

My question on how the higher up Mason structure is funded is still open. I stopped giving money to the church since I can't really verify its use- if I want to help the poor I'll have no problem finding someone who needs it.

Max,

After reading this forum on and off for a few months, I've come to a conclusion that vast majority of people here suffer from paranoid mental disorder.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/P/Pa/Paranoid_personality_disorder.htm

All these conspiracy theorists take disperate facts and events and create this elaborate, complex, scheme to try to "explain" the World around them in terms which fit their initial belief: taht somone, higher up, is controlling it all. I hope all these people would realize that NO ONE is controlling their lives except for themselves. YOU have full control over your life and there is NO conspiracy of Masons who are trying to rule the World or control your life. If possible, people should also seek help from mental professionals.

Yes, I'm MM. No, I do not know any of the people here and I have no way of knowing whether they are who they claim to be. There is a time and place to test whether someone is a Mason and online forums are not it. Masonry has given me a wonderful system of morality and a friendship with a group of people on whom I can rely whenever need be. We all enjoy each others' company and we enjoy our work and what it teaches us and allegories are beautiful. There is nothing more to it.

Sure, there were some bad people who were Masons but you have to understand that they were not bad because of Masonry; they were like that before they joined. Had they followed Masonic teachings, they'd never do things they did.

Max
05-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Weishaupt wrote:
After reading this forum on and off for a few months, I've come to a conclusion that vast majority of people here suffer from paranoid mental disorder.

http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/encyclopedia/P/Pa/Paranoid_personality_disorder.htm

That sounds like an opinion of a subjective medical condition- thanks for the link but I'll pass, I don't buy into the "disorder" FUD, it seems to mostly be made-up garbage. I'd guess I likely be considered one of the people to be put in this classification but I don't care one bit what labels people want to put on me- it has zero effect on my life.


All these conspiracy theorists take disperate facts and events and create this elaborate, complex, scheme to try to "explain" the World around them in terms which fit their initial belief: taht somone, higher up, is controlling it all.
It is clear to anyone who has studied the matter in detail that there is a large minority of people involved in a Luciferian conspiracy who have ruled the world for a long, long, long time and they do so via deception. Someone saying there isn't doesn't change reality. I'm not saying it's a Mason thing.

Of course, in the end, none of this really matters, I don't really care so much who is a part of a conspiracy and how they might be tied in various hidden organizations and such, I just let their actions speak for themselves. From the actions of the global elite I have been able to made some strong analysis and can see that governments have basically always been controlled by evil people who are mostly interested in power, riches and war. Countless millions have died by being brainwashed that war is somehow necessary while they'd rather be at home with their family. On this planet governments have shown themselves to be a cancer that is far worse than any problem that they claim to be able to solve. It's not too hard for one to see the bars of tyranny they have in place that we can not escape. You don't need a conspiracy for any of this, it's just casual observation from a perspective of true freedom.

Max
05-17-2005, 04:41 PM
MasonTemplar wrote:
I, too, wonder what is meant about needing a boogeyman.
Exactly, of course the funny thing is is that it is the NWO that needs the boogeyman (currently known as Osama Bin Laden) to brainwash the masses for their use of the fear based problem-reaction-solution paradigm.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 07:21 PM
Yeoshua..
Charles Russell was a Mason...
and a Knight Templar.
Buried in a Masonic plot with the sign of the Knights Templar. That was my point, don't read into it more than what I post.

Weishaupt..
your post does not even deserve the dignity of a response....

Weishaupt
05-17-2005, 07:43 PM
Ouch! I see I've hit a nerve. Truth hurts, doesn't it? Why are you then soliciting opinions if 'you can't handle the truth?' I was speaking from a scientific point of view and not Masonic one.

You don't believe in psychological disorders, ha? I guess psychotherapists and psychologists are tools of the "Illuminati" as well?

"Boogeyman" I was refering to was in the context of a psychological disorder, not sociological. This is also known as SCAPEGOATING. Here, let me quote a passage from Wikipedia: (emphasis mine)


Political/Sociological Scapegoating

Scapegoating is an important tool of propaganda; for example, the Jews were singled out in Nazi propaganda as the source of Germany's economic woes and political collapse .

Scapegoating is often more devastating when applied to a minority group as they are, by definition, in the minority; thus they find it difficult to defend themselves. A tactic often employed is to characterize an entire group of individuals according to the unethical or immoral conduct of a small number of individuals belonging to the group.

"Scapegoated" groups throughout history have included almost every imaginable group of people: adherents of different religion, people of different race or nation or political belief, people differing in behaviour of majority. However, scapegoating may also be applied to organizations, such as governments, corporations, or various political groups.

In industrialized societies, scapegoating of traditional minority groups is increasingly frowned upon. In the extreme, this may result in socially-enforced rules regarding speech, as in political correctness.

I always hear conspiracy people talk about "waking" other people up and "exposing" the "controllers." Has it ever come across your mind that YOU're the one who needs to be woken up?!? Maybe the fault is on your end? All of the viewpoints should be evaluated objectively.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 08:03 PM
Weishaupt...

Winston churchill, Woodrow Wilson, Benjamin Disraeli, Joseph Willard (Harvard President 1812), Alexander Addison (Pennsylvania Court President 1800), Bill clinton, Carroll quigley (Clinton's Georgetown Profesor), NYC Mayor John Hylan, Robert Rotberg (Rhodes Scholar), FDR, Senator willian Jennings...

I could go on but all these men verified the exitence of this conspiracy....

What do you think Weis.. Do these men have psychological disorders?
That objective enough for you?

Ahmad
05-17-2005, 10:30 PM
W said: I hope all these people would realize that NO ONE is controlling their lives except for themselves. YOU have full control over your life and there is NO conspiracy of Masons who are trying to rule the World or control your life. If possible, people should also seek help from mental professionals.

Also Max said:

. On this planet governments have shown themselves to be a cancer that is far worse than any problem that they claim to be able to solve. It's not too hard for one to see the bars of tyranny they have in place that we can not escape. You don't need a conspiracy for any of this, it's just casual observation from a perspective of true freedom.

Actually i agree with both viewpoints, the one that says that no one can control your life without your consent and the one that is aware of the existence of a conspiracy.

My stand is that there is indeed a conspiracy, an age old one orchestrated by Satan himself, he uses his agents (the Jinn-devils) to manipulate and control the minds, yet God says that he cannot control except the minds of those who attribute power to him that is independent of God!

Which brings us to a very important point, there also seems to be a significant effort to spread false propaganda about the 'elite', they (Satan and his followers) want us to believe that they are All powerfull, invincible, truly united lizards and that there is no escape!

That would be a good indicator for us to distinguish true from false information, if it points to an invincible, all powerfull secret society, know that it is a lie, why?

Because God teaches us that Satan's followers cannot and will not ever be able to get united on one cause, their different idols (false gods, e.g: money, power) always result in a conflict of interests which leads to war and fighting.

So in the end i do believe in a conspiracy against our freedom, but it Has no Power whatsoever, those who attribute powers to any group of harm or benefit are the ones who eventually will suffer their harm.

Let us not condemn people except if we are absolutely sure, for example there is a clear evidence that the Zionist Jews are evil, but there is no clear evidence that the Freemasons as an organization are, why then should we uphold conjecture and guesswork?

[4:76] Those who believe are fighting for the cause of GOD, while those who disbelieve are fighting for the cause of Extremes (their idols). Therefore, you shall fight the devil's allies; the devil's power is nil.

nakedsnake
05-18-2005, 06:30 AM
Ahmad wrote: there is no clear evidence that the Freemasons as an organization are, why then should we uphold conjecture and guesswork?


In 1789 John Robison in England and Abbe Baurrell in France, both wrote book long exposes concerning the infaltration and manipulation of the Craft, by Adam Wieshauhaupt's Illuminati.
They go the information from the Illuminati's own writings.
Historical fact.

The Craft at least the Scottish Rite claims responsibility for the main Occultic modern day movements.

The occult revival of the 20th century can be directly attributed to Freemasonry and its peripheral entourage of acolytes: Theosophy, the New Age Movement, Satanism, Cabalistic Black Magic, Enochian Magic, Gerardian Wicca, Alexandrian Wicca and Sex Magic.
http://conspiracyarchive.com/NWO/Freemasonry.htm
Fact.

The Masonic lodge P2 was involved in assasination, banking scandals, terrorist acts and the like..Fact.

http://www.questia.com/SM.qst?act=search&keywords=Masonic+Lodge+P2

Are all Masons evil and occultic, NO.
Are all Christians crusaders, no.
Are all Muslims Wahabists. no.
Are all Jews Zionist. no.
But there is concern over the Craft, and what is secrecy has been used for centuries. And that Ahmad is not conjecture or guesswork.

Max
05-18-2005, 12:37 PM
Weishaupt wrote:
You don't believe in psychological disorders, ha? I guess psychotherapists and psychologists are tools of the "Illuminati" as well?

Weishaupt- to be most clear, there is an obvious distention between labels of "disorders" and the study of behavior. If someone wants to study behavior and classify it that's their business but when they want to start to label things as "disorders" then that is subjective. Who's to say what is "normal"? Maybe all the people you label as suffering from "paranoid mental disorder" as actually the normal ones and others are really suffering from some form of "un-paranoid mental disorder"? Who's to say that's wrong? What authority was granted from up high to say it's wrong? Answer- there is none- it's purely subjective but it has proven to be used as a tool of the elites to manipulate and control the masses. Most psychotherapists and psychologists just go along with the norm having been brainwashed themselves.

All of this is becoming vary apparent with Bushs new push to drug the population (starting with the kids) with using bogus labels such as "ADD" and the like.


Anyhow, my question stands- what specific conspiracies must one "believe" to be labeled to have "mental issues"? Do you think 9/11 was an inside job?

One last thing- I don't really believe or disbelieve anything- belief is overrated and has no inherent bearing on reality. I try to paint a picture of truth by absorbing all kinds of information. Belief is meaningless to me and can betray you.


Good day to you.

Max
05-18-2005, 12:53 PM
Ahmad wrote:
God says that he cannot control except the minds of those who attribute power to him that is independent of God!
Yes- very true- I would say a good example of this is how people grant control over their thoughts to the mainstream media. Most people are happy to believe whatever it is they are told to believe by their TV thus they are attributing power to Lucifer.


Because God teaches us that Satan's followers cannot and will not ever be able to get united on one cause, their different idols (false gods, e.g: money, power) always result in a conflict of interests which leads to war and fighting.
An excellent point. This is why I wish to try my best to adhere to the cause of "Truth, Peace, Freedom, Trust, Abundance, Unselfishness, Joy, Humility and Pure Love" as much sig says. This is what I have learned from my Christianity and I think others in humanity will want to united under this cause.

So in the end i do believe in a conspiracy against our freedom, but it Has no Power whatsoever, those who attribute powers to any group of harm or benefit are the ones who eventually will suffer their harm.
The way I see it, the beast does have power against our freedom- for example, I must pay taxes to it to fight unjust wars and would be imprisoned if I do not. Still, no one has any power against the freedom of my mind as I will not cave in to peer pressure or other mind games- a bit of positive I remind myself of to see the beauty of freedom.

Peace with you Ahmad.

05-18-2005, 02:27 PM
The Nazi doctors/scientists who were ushered into this country under Project Paperclip after WWII, were war criminals, responsible for the grotesque abuse of millions of JEWS in concentration camps, but Allen Dulles, along with others, against the President's orders, provided safe-haven for hundreds of them here on American soil.

They were trophied to the American people and the world as rocket scientists, etc. and so be it, but they also continued their experimentation on unwitting and unwilling American citizens under MKULTRA/ARTICHOKE/BLUEBIRD, etc. (mind control programs) at NASA and various military air force bases/hospitals around the country and at McGill University in Canada.

This tells me one thing. Our government knew what these fascist/Nazi pigs were subjecting their victims to in Germany and what they learned and what they were able to accomplish in millions of JEWS was fear and anxiety through trauma-based torture.

They were smuggled here so they could continue with their research on individuals and groups in America. Affecting the brain chemistry of a population is their goal. Learning this through decades of experimentation on innocent men, women and children. Applying mind control to the masses. Putting a country/world to sleep.

Again, fear and anxiety cause society to look to their leaders for protection and, therefore, a transference of power occurs.

Creating fear through war, tension and poverty throughout various parts of the world for centuries, keeping different religious groups angry with one another. Arming them. Distraction is key.

Fighting to survive and here, too, we are in America.

Causing America to feel divided with the creation of the red and blue states. Maybe the next division will be a line right through the middle and there will be an East and West America. Perhaps, the reason for base closings??

Rumsfeld said the base closings were due to a different war. We are fighting extremists. Oh, yeah!! Where? If so, better reason to keep them opened.

They experimented with food additives, flouride, poisons from plants found in the rain forest. They used LSD in their search for "truth serums," testing out interrogation techniques. These men were capable of creating mental illnesses in their victims.

They will continue to introduce new technologies to keep us pre-occupied 24/7. Fast moving images on television. All to accomplish a lack of concentration, perhaps ADD or ADHD. Inability to concentrate causes a lack of cognitive and critical thinking skills.
They drill information into our children's brains in school without allowing them to develop their own minds. In addition, the history books are WRONG!!!

If they could alter and/or create a mental illness in a child/adult in a mind control program through trauma, etc., could this then be passed on from generation to generation not through the altering of a gene, but through the learned behavior of one's environment.

If they could accomplish this then they could accomplish the larger picture which, of course, was to inflict us with "mental diseases," etc. and then DRUG US. Again, altering our brain chemistry even further.

This, of course, accomplished through fear, trauma, anxiety on a wide-scale through terrorist attacks, the "threat" of terrorist attacks. The threat of flying on a jet.

Certainly, Zoloft, etc. has caused more than enough suicides and why, why do we turn to our doctors for medication for our children when they are just trying to deal with life?

They don't know what causes ADD, but they have a stimulant which is prescribed (SPEED)!!!

The CIA helps to addict children to drugs at a young age and keep them that way.

So, basically, traumatize a generation (my generation), JFK, CUBA, hiding under our desks, Robert Kennedy, etc., etc. The constant threat of Nuclear War.

Traumatize our children with school shootings, 911, anthrax, AIDS (which I have no doubt they created).

Distract men with SEX and brainwash them to believe that they can't perform without Viagra.

Make women/young girls believe that they have no place in the world other than to be attractive to men. PERFECT. Plastic surgery, etc.

Make women believe that to be a caretaker of her husband and children is menial work.
The break-up of families ripping apart the very core of society through the feminist movement.

Demoralize women in the name of men and sex. Continue to portray women as nothing more than sex objects without a brain.

In otherwords, take away our time through technology, keep us addicted to drugs, alter our brain chemistry, etc. so that we don't have time and or the energy to become politically involved or to research and UNMASK these men for what they truly are.

81% of the people believe that the JFK assassination was a CONSPIRACY.

So, we're not all paranoid.

Maybe the seven signs leading up to World War III and America as a third world country.

911
Anthrax
Virus in China
Sniper
Black outs (should have been rolling)
Rob us at the gas pumps
What is the seventh???

All of these signs preceeded the stock market crash!!

In Peace,
BlueAngel

Ahmad
05-19-2005, 02:27 AM
Peace be upon you BA,

I tend to believe that we ALL have been subjected to trauma-based mind control to different degrees, whether by our parents, siblings, peers or even governments.

God says that Satan's ultimate weapon is Fear,

[3:175] It is the devil's system to instill fear into his subjects. Do not fear them and fear Me instead, if you are believers.

Fear and insecurity,.... you sound a little bit still afraid, don't give them power over you, they don't have it in reality.

Without their false propaganda they will just vanish like scattered dust. No weapon they develope can hurt you against God's will, no poison they force you to swallow can harm you against God's will. Abraham walked out of the fire unharmed! if he believed for a second in the visible illusion he would have been burnt alive.

Wait and be patient, these clouds of dust are nothing but Satan and his agents in their desperate last attempt to run to safety. Soon the dust will disappear and the gardens of Eden will once again be found on earth.

Dreaming i am? i don't think so, God promised those who truly believe that only Him has power, He promised to make them rulers on earth.

If you want to join the upcoming rulers, rid yourself of fear and know that God doesn't burden any soul beyond its means, if you reach such serenity of mind rejoice in the bright future awaiting the real humans.