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Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 04:54 AM
And did those feet in ancient time
Walk upon England's mountains green?
And was the holy Lamb of God
On England's pleasant pastures seen?

And did the Countenance Divine
Shine forth upon our clouded hills?
And was Jerusalem builded here
Among these dark satanic mills?

Bring me my bow of burning gold!
Bring me my arrows of desire!
Bring me my spear! O clouds, unfold!
Bring me my chariot of fire!

I will not cease from mental fight,
Nor shall my sword sleep in my hand,
Till we have built Jerusalem
In England's green and pleasant land.

The Word British in Hebrew, means Covenant man, as does the Welsh. Covenant man? An Israelite?

Official historical records, both domestic and foreign, including at least four official Vatican documents, confirm that Joseph of Arimathaea fled the Holy Land with Mary the mother of Jesus and others; came to England; settled and was eventually buried, along with Virgin Mary, in Glastonbury after the Crucifixion of Jesus the Nazarite (NOT of NAZARETH - Nazarite means little fish), during the vicious persecution of the first followers of THE NEW WAY.

A Christian legend says:

When he was a child, Jesus visited Glastonbury
with his uncle, Joseph of Arimathea. It's simply a co-incedence that Glastonbury is one of the sites of the worlds most famous version of Uriel's Machine.

It is also said:

That Jesus did not really die on the cross, but rather he was revived and then secretly smuggled out of Palestine by an inner circle of disciples (eventually to be stoned to death on the site that is now St Paul's Cathedral). Once recovered he embarked on a world-wide preaching mission.

The Union Jack is called the Union Jack because it is the flag of the "Union of Jack-ob Israel"

The Christ's flag, The Celtic/Saxon flags with their upright and diagonal crosses
are the flags of the ten "lost" tribes of Israel; of which the Union of Jack(ob)/Israel's flag is Christ's own personal flag, just as the British Throne Jack(ob)'s Pillar/Bethel/the Lia Fail/Stone of Destiny is shortly to become Christ's Throne.


The flag consists of two letters: Firstly the "tau" appears as an upright cross + and, consequently, as the only possible way to "tau a tau", or "cross a cross", is to put one cross diagonally over the other.

These two letters are "aleph" and "tau", and in the original Hebrew alphabet aleph appears as a diagonal cross x and tau as an upright cross +. Thus, when combined as a symbol to express the idea of the Eternal God, they would appear like the protective mark referred to above, which is identical with the crossed cross of Britannia's shield; the flags of the Celtic/Israelites in Northern Spain and Christ's flag the Union Jack.


Anyone wanna see my tattoo? a tattoo that you will never ever see in any tattoo parlour.

Well somebody has asked what my beleifs are, I thought I'd start with the basics.

Good old Joshua Ben Joseph!

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 06:25 AM
It seems your headed to some sort of hybrid view of British-Israelism, and Morevigian Bloodline of Jesus view. These historical records, what are the sources?

Christian legend?, sounds more like a Gnostic, Masonic legend.

This survival of the crucifixion, and world wide preaching mission, where's the evidence what are the historical sources?

Any view of Jesus with no historical verification, that flies in the face of known history is fanciful myths.

And you still haven't answered my questions...
Yeoshua..

The questions remain maybe you missed them...

Do you think the higher degrees might be misleading you?

Since they are higher rank and world traveled Masons, and in some cases revered as Masonic authorities, do you think they might have some insight that you do not have?

http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=1328&forum=26&post_id=10670

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 06:52 AM
You're damn right it's a very Gnostic belief.

The Gnostics were early followers of "The Way" (Christ) who believed that followers of The One God should not merely revere Christ, but strive to emulate him, in every thought, word and deed. They sought to describe this emulation in philosophical terms, as a method of practice. As the early Roman church formulated its canons, the Gnostics were eventually considered willful heretics, opposed to turning their lives over to God as a matter of faith. To become a true believer, the early church leaders claimed, one had to forego understanding and analysis and be content to live life through divine revelation, adhering to God's Will moment by moment. The churchmen did this in order to sustain their control over the people. They wished to keep His True Teachings and overall plan from the public, so people would be deceived into thinking that they had to go to the churchmen to find God, rather than learning to look within and find the Divine within themselves as Christ's Message to the world had been.

You're also right on the money that is a very Masonic view too - although not of many junior brethren. Or of Scottish rite Freemasonry. In fact, ritaul does very well to demonstrate much of this fact by veiling it in allegory.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 07:10 AM
Yeoshua,

Your on point when you say that the Roman Catholic monopoly wanted to turn the truth of Christ in to a control system, they persecuted Gnostics, Cathars and Christians who did not want to bow down to their interpretation of God.

Bu the Gnostic and Masonic belief of Christ is flawed, it is historically incorrect, the early Christians before Rome described the Gnostic way as a false version of Christianity...

Paul said... Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding irreverent, empty speech and contradictions from the "knowledge" that falsely bears that name. by professing it, some people have deviated from the Faith.
1st Timothy 6:20, 21

The true teachings of Christ were recorded by his followers in the New Testament, if your facts about Christ contradict the first source, you hold the burden of proof as to why your assumptions are correct, when it flies in the face of known history.

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 07:19 AM
On what proof do you believe it is flawed?

I feel you need to do more research beginning with the Dead Sea Scrolls, casting more than a fleeting eye (sic) over the Old Testament and finding succour in the books of Ezekiel and Euclid.

Ahmad can point you in the right direction I'm sure.

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 07:22 AM
nakedsnake wrote:
The true teachings of Christ were recorded by his followers in the New Testament, if your facts about Christ contradict the first source, you hold the burden of proof as to why your assumptions are correct, when it flies in the face of known history.

I can't believe you've just had the minerals to write that!

The words TRUE and NEW and TESTAMENT shouldn't even be in the same sentence.

How can anyone say that the New Teastament records any true teachings of anyone?

The Vatican did a belting job of writing a complete work of fiction in the New Testament, and they rely on the planet's simpletons to take the thing literally.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 07:32 AM
The Dead Sea scrolls repeat teachings that were discreted in the first century, they are nothing new, the Vatican did not write or rewrite the New Testament, the historical manuscripts that date to within 30 years after the ressurection, which are in Museums all over the world over 5000 manuscripts that is my proof.
Where is yours?

This survival of the crucifixion, and world wide preaching mission, where's the evidence what are the historical sources?

I do extensive research and far from a simpleton,
The VERIFIABLE historical evidence favors the side of the true Christ, not the Gnostic fraud.

Ahmad
05-17-2005, 07:39 AM
Peace be upon you Yeoshua,

I can't agree with you that the New Testament is a 'complete work of fiction'.

There are many parts that are the true words of God, other parts were twisted to give the impression that Jesus is the source of the message and that he was inviting the people to worship him instead of the one who sent him.

But still the truth can be found in the bible for those who can see it:

Appendix 22
of the Authorized English translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa


Jesus, the Quranic view.
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

The Quran, informs us that Jesus was a human messenger of God whose sole mission was to deliver God's message; he never possessed any power, and is now dead (4:171, 5:75, 117).
Those who consider Jesus to be God, or Son of God, or part of a trinity are "pagans" (5:17, 72, 73). Outstanding Christian scholars have reached these same conclusions (THE MYTH OF GOD INCARNATE, John Hick, ed., The Westminster Press, Philadelphia, 1977 & THE MYTH MAKER, Hyam Maccoby,Harper & Row 1986). Christianity is the product of Nicene (AD 325).
The Bible's Jesus

Jesus proclaimed aloud: ``Whoever puts faith in me believes not so much in me as in him who sent me; ..... For I have not spoken on my own; no, the Father who sent me has commanded me what to say and how to speak. Since I know that his commandment means eternal life, whatever I say is spoken just as he instructed me.'' [ John 12:44-50 ]

"I cannot do anything of myself. I judge as I hear, and my judgment is honest because I am not seeking my own will but the will of him who sent me." [ John 5:30 ]

Jesus said: ``My doctrine is not my own; it comes from him who sent me.'' [ John 7:16 ]

"Men of Israel, listen to me! Jesus the Nazorean was a man whom God sent to you with miracles, wonders, and signs as his credentials. These God worked through him in your midst, as you well know."
[ Acts 2:22 ]

``...The man who hears my word and has faith in him who sent me possesses eternal life.''
[ John 5:24 ]

"Whoever welcomes me welcomes, not me, but him who sent me."
[ Matthew 10:40, Mark 9:37, Luke 9:48, & John 13:20 ]

``...I have not come of myself. I was sent by One who has the right to send, and him you do not know. I know him because it is from him I come; he sent me.'' [ John 7:28-29 ]

Jesus looked up to heaven and said, ``...Eternal life is this: to know you, the only true God, and him whom you have sent, Jesus Christ.'' [ John 17:1-3 ]

All who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God.
[ Romans 8:14 ]

Jesus looked upward and said, ``Father, I thank you for having heard me. I know that you always hear me but I have said this for the sake of the crowd, that they may believe that you sent me.''
[ John 11:41-42 ]

As he was setting out on a journey a man came running up, knelt down before him and asked, ``Good Teacher, what must I do to share in everlasting life?'' Jesus answered, ``Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone.'' [ Mark 10:17-18 ]

``None of those who call me `Lord' will enter the kingdom of God, but only the one who does the will of my Father in heaven."
[ Matthew 7:21 ]

``...Go to my brothers and tell them, `I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.' '' [ John 20:17 ]

``God is my Lord and your Lord; you shall worship Him alone. This is the right path."
[ Quran 3:51, 19:36, & 43:64 ]

Trinity, the doctrine of God taught by Christians that asserts that God is one in essence but three in ``person,'' Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Neither the word Trinity, nor the explicit doctrine as such,
appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Old Testament: ``Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is one'' (Deut. 6:4).
[ Encyclopedia Britannica, 1975 ]
Jesus' Death

This has been the single most controversial subject in the world. The Quran's miraculous mathematical code has now provided the final answer to this topic:

Jesus' soul was raised, i.e., he was put to death prior to the arrest and crucifixion of his body. Thus, his persecutors arrested, tortured, and crucified an empty body - Jesus was already gone to the world of souls (3:55, 4:157).

They plotted and schemed, but so did God, and God is the best schemer. Thus, God said,
``O Jesus, I am putting you to death, and raising you to Me; I will save you from the disbelievers.''
[ Quran 3:54-55 ]

They claimed that they killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God! In fact, they never killed him; they never crucified him; they were led to believe that they did.
[ Quran 4:157 ]

Mercifully, God has given our generation a living example of a person whose soul departed this world, but his body continued to live for 19 months. On November 25, 1984, doctors at the Humana Hospital of Louisville, Kentucky removed the diseased heart of Mr. William Schroeder and replaced it with a plastic and metal pump (THE NEW YORK TIMES, Monday, November 26, 1984).

On the 19th day after this historic operation - Thursday, December 13, 1984 - Mr. Schroeder, the soul, the real person, departed this world. Mr. Schroeder died. But his body continued to function with the artificial heart implanted in his body. The world was told that he "probably suffered a stroke" (THE NEW YORK TIMES, December 14, 1984).

Significantly, only one day before Mr. Schroeder's departure, he talked with President Ronald Reagan on national TV, and demanded that the Social Security Administration send his overdue check. He was
perfectly alert. From the moment "he suffered a stroke," he did not recognize the day or time, nor his family members. In fact, Mr.Schroeder was no longer in this world.
The Gospels state clearly that the arrested body of Jesus was oblivious to the events surrounding it: The chief priests, meanwhile, brought many accusations against Jesus. Pilate interrogated him again: "Surely you have some answer? See how many accusations they are leveling against you."
But greatly to Pilate's surprise, Jesus made no further response. [ Mark 15:3-5 ]
Herod was extremely pleased to see Jesus. From the reports about him he had wanted for a long time to see him, and he was hoping to see him work some miracles. He questioned Jesus at considerable length, but Jesus made no response. The chief priests and scribes were at hand to accuse him vehemently. Herod and his guards then treated him with contempt and insult. [ Luke 23:8-11 ]

The Savior said to me, "He whom you saw on the tree, glad and laughing, this is the living Jesus. But this one into whose hands and feet they drive the nails is the fleshly part. [Apocalypse of Peter, VII, 3, 81] from THE NAG HAMMADI LIBRARY (Harper & Row, 1977, James M.Robinson, ed, Page 339).

The facts that
(1) Mr. Schroeder's soul departed on the 19th day after the operation, and
(2) his body survived for 19 months, are uncanny reminders that God wanted the world to know the parallel between Schroeder's situation, and the proven account of Jesus' departure prior to the arrest, torture, and crucifixion of his soulless body.

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 07:44 AM
nakedsnake wrote:
The Dead Sea scrolls repeat teachings that were discreted in the first century

Discredited by the Vatican - Ummmm - Ok yeah right, well, that's shut me up hasn't it?

A tenner says that you're a left footer. And to be honest I don't hold that against you, but you are as green as your cabbage looking if you believe a word of what your church tells you.

Gnostic fraud? why is it only becoming apparent now after the age of Pisces (religion) as we go into the age of Aquarius (brotherhood).

Your churches reign is coming to an end my friend, Astrape Eklepsis marked this, and your lies will be revealed as we approach the end of days.

A Gnostic fraud disproven in 1st century A.D.? what would be the mileage in that? unless the Vatican wanted to censor the truth?

It's you and your ilk that has lied to the world, then pointed to the guardians of the truth and light to blame them.

It's you and your ilk that has slaughtered millions, it's you and your ilk that is greedy, it's you and your ilk that has wiped out entire races and beliefs in search of more gold.

Vatican ownership of the General Immobiliare has meant that the disinformation regarding the true 'Secret Rulers of the World' has been veiled and masked. Well no more.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 07:53 AM
Im sorry Yeosuha,
You have me confused for somebody else..

Fact: I am not a Roman Catholic

Fact: I don't belong to any organized Church

Fact: you just slandered me assuming, I am something which I am not, that's why I ask you questions to determine who I am speaking to.

The question remains...
This survival of the crucifixion, and world wide preaching mission, where's the evidence what are the historical sources?

your outburst undermines the Brotherhood and fraternity of the Craft.

Yeoshua
05-17-2005, 08:47 AM
My outburst undermines the Brotherhood and the Fraternity of the craft?

You're not in the Craft.

You want proof of the Black Madonna? Go to Provence - France.

You want to determine to whom you are 'speaking' - well, deal with the anonymity of the Internet

OK - Let's start at the beginning:

Joseph de Marmore (Marmorica in Egypt) from Arimathaea, was (according to a manuscript at Jesus College Oxford) brother to Bianca and Ann (V. Mary's mother); uncle to Virgin Mary and great-uncle to The Christ, whose body he claimed from Pontius Pilate, as, by law, only a relative could.

The Catholic priest Polydore Vergil who was born in Italy in 1470; studied at Bologna and Padua; was so renowned for his literary talents that catholic Henry 7th (NOT the Protestant 8th) asked him to write an English History. As an Italian and a Catholic proxy Bishop; Prebendary and Archdeacon who became Chamberlain to Pope Alexander VII, he had no axe to grind on behalf of Britain or the British Church. It would no doubt have suited him much better if he could have written of Rome as being the first Christian church but he could not and did not. He wrote:-

"Britain, partly through Joseph of Arimathaea, partly through Fugatus and Damianus, was of all kingdoms FIRST TO RECEIVE THE GOSPEL." (Even before Palestine).

The antiquity of the British church had been challenged by the ambassadors of Spain and France before the Roman Catholic Council of Pisa (A.D. 1417). The British (catholic) delegates Robert Hallam, Bishop of Salisbury, Henry Chichele, a former Archbishop of Canterbury and Thomas Chillendon, won the day, the council affirmed that the British church (not the Church of England and not catholic because it was pre-catholic) was the first Christian church (community).

The ambassadors appealed to the Roman Catholic Council of Constance, also in A.D. 1417, and that council confirmed the findings of the Council of Pisa.

A third decision by the Roman Catholic Council at Sienna 1424 again confirmed the antiquity of the British church and, finally at the Council at Basle in 1434 it was laid down that the churches of Spain and France had to accept the precedence of the British Church, which it was affirmed, was founded by Joseph of Arimathaea (Mary's uncle) "immediately after the passion of Christ."

The VATICAN MANUSCRIPT quoted by Baronius in his "Ecclesiastical Annals A.D. 35", (the same year in which the Acts of the Apostles state that all, except the Apostles, were scattered abroad from Judaea) records that in this year Lazarus, Maria Magdalene, Martha, her handmaiden Marcella, Maximin a disciple, Joseph the Decurion (Roman Minister for Mines) of Arimathaea, against all of whom the Jewish people had special reasons for hatred, were exposed to the sea in a vessel without sails or oars. The vessel drifted finally to Marseilles, and they were saved. From Marseilles Joseph and his company passed into Britain, and after preaching the Gospel there, died (and was buried). Other sources report that there were a total of 14 people in the vessel.

John had been made guardian of Virgin Mary, by Jesus, from the cross, but John became a fugitive and so passed the guardianship over to Mary's uncle Joseph of Arimathaea who, being the Roman Minister of Mines (and having become rich by trading with mines in Britain for years), was the least vulnerable and Mary could therefore not be any safer than she was with him.

The fact that Mary was NOT with John is proved by his second letter which was written to her saying that he hoped to be able to visit her; but he became exiled on the Island of Patmos, where Christ gave him the Book of Revelation/Apocalypse, so Mary went with Joseph of Arimathaea to England (where they are BOTH buried, as USED to be taught by the early Catholic Church). Britain was the ONLY place they COULD go to, that was SAFE from Roman Persecution, because the Romans had already conquered and subjugated everywhere, except for Britain.

2 John (John's Second Letter - in The Holy Bible - New Covenant/Testament)
1:1 The "Elder" unto the elect lady (Mary) and her CHILDREN (Matt. 13:55-56), whom I love in the truth; and not I only, but also all they that have known the Truth (Heb. Nazir - Jesus Nazir);
1:3 Grace be with you, mercy, [and] peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus+Christ, (Christ the spirit-Being) the Son of the Father (not the son of Mary), in truth and love.
1:12 Having many things to write unto you, I would not [write] with paper and ink: but I trust to come unto you, and speak face to face, that our joy may be full.

Jesus grew up safely in England (the city of Nazareth did not exist until the fourth century A.D.) and started his ministry in England with the "Lost sheep of the House of Israel" (10 lost tribes) before going to Palestine. That is why there is no mention in the Gospels of his being in Israel except for on one occasion at age twelve when he visited The Temple, as was the custom.

God tells us, through the Prophet Daniel*, that the Messiah will confirm The Covenant for one week (7 days - 7 years in Prophecy) and we know that his ministry in Palestine was not one week nor seven years in duration. The British people (the "House of Israel") in England were already accepting Jesus as the promised Messiah and were being converted by Him in the beginning of that "week", before He left to fulfill His mission and complete the "week" in Palestine, hence:-

Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you (the Jews), The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a NATION (NOT a church) bringing forth (already) the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes" - the "House of Israel", in Britain).
Matthew 10:5 These TWELVE (including PETER - 10:2) Jesus sent forth, and COMMANDED them, saying, Go NOT into the way of the Gentiles (ROME, etc.), and into [any] city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the "House of Israel" (NOT the "House of Jewdah").

* Daniel 9:27 "And he shall CONFIRM The Covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week (WEDNESDAY NOT Friday) he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make [it] desolate, even until the consummation (the "Lake of Hell-Fire"), and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

Matthew 21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the Scriptures, The "Stone" which the builders* REJECTED, the same is become the Head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes? (Psalm 2)
21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The Kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof (the "10 lost tribes"- the "House of Israel").
21:44 And whosoever shall fall on this "Stone" shall be broken: but on whomsoever it shall fall, it (the "Stone") will grind him to powder. (Daniel 2:34-35)
21:45 And when the *chief priests and politicians had heard his parables, they perceived that he spoke about them.
21:46 But when they sought to lay hands on him, they feared the multitude, because they took him for a Prophet.

nakedsnake
05-17-2005, 06:56 PM
Youshua..

Polydore Vergil was a psuedo historian...
http://www.annomundi.com/history/denunciation_of_polydore_vergil.htm#description_of _cambria

You then go qouting CATHOLIC SOURCES, who you say are...
Discredited by the Vatican - Ummmm - Ok yeah right, well, that's shut me up hasn't it?

has lied to the world, then pointed to the guardians of the truth and light to blame them.

Vatican ownership of the General Immobiliare has meant that the disinformation ...

WHO YOU SAY ARE DISINFORMATION MASTERS!

Jesus grew up safely in England (the city of Nazareth did not exist until the fourth century A.D.) and started his ministry in England with the "Lost sheep of the House of Israel" (10 lost tribes) before going to Palestine. That is why there is no mention in the Gospels of his being in Israel except for on one occasion at age twelve when he visited The Temple, as was the custom.
Where is the source for this statement?

The British people (the "House of Israel") in England were already accepting Jesus as the promised Messiah and were being converted by Him in the beginning of that "week", before He left to fulfill His mission and complete the "week" in Palestine,

Where is the source Yeoshua?

You then take scripture and put your own inserts to sell your point, that's subjective scripture interpretation, and it is dishonest.

The source Yeoshua, for Jesus survival of the crucifixion and world wide preaching mission, where is it?

you don't have it because it does not exist, now will you burst into another childish outburst? please man have a little dignity and stick with facts.

eddie
05-18-2005, 04:07 AM
I also want to point out to you that Jesus knew where the rest of the house of Israel was, also. He spoke to the "strangers of the dispersion." He knew where the household of Ephraim was, "and Israel his companions" - and He sailed on the ships of Joseph of Arimathea, when in His young manhood and boyhood He sailed to Britain and back, and He knew that in Western Europe was the household of His calling. He knew where they had migrated to. In fact, there is a lot of secular record concerning the youth of Christ and concerning His young manhood and concerning His identification and His travels among His people, inside the real house of Israel.
end c/p.
http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/swift/mystrey-of-iniquity.html
i thought it might help.i still find that wesley got it right.if not please say so.a lot of times the opposite is what happened.so where do you guys think the lost tribes are? :-)

nakedsnake
05-18-2005, 06:01 AM
eddie wrote:
in His young manhood and boyhood He sailed to Britain and back, and He knew that in Western Europe was the household of His calling. He knew where they had migrated to. In fact, there is a lot of secular record concerning the youth of Christ and concerning His young manhood and concerning His identification and His travels among His people, inside the real house of Israel.


Eddie, I read the link.
There is one problem, you mention lots of secular record, but I see no sources.
I see scripture twisting, conjecture, and pseudo history.
Yeoshua rips the scriptures, says the Roman Church altered them, and then uses them (Twisting their meaning) as a source.
The problem I see running in this thread and in CC as a whole is lack of documentation.
It figueres when you learn history from a Craft, that admits deceiving their own adepts.
God does not lie, if your Craft deceives you, you must ask yourself why?