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Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 07:09 AM
As a new member and poster, I thought I wouldn't mess about, I'm going to get straight on with it.

I believe, probably more than most of you.

However, I challenge any one of you to come up with solid facts - Not based on speculation and conjecture, why Freemasonry is allegedly evil.

If the globalist masters pertain to be Freemasons, they certainly aren't recognised by real Freemasons (United Grand Lodge of England).

You are all pointing a finger at Freemasons as the architects and engineers of the NWO, provide me with proof, and I will provide you proof that you are wrong.

I am a Master Mason and proud. I am poor, honest and of good repute in my community. I swore an oath on the Bible and I believe in God.

I look forward to continuing to post here, and healthy, good discussion, I will never offend and respect your opinions. May I request the same courtesy?

madkhao
01-13-2005, 07:38 AM
I'm sorry, could you specify what it is you 'believe' more than most of us? Thankyou.

Ahmad
01-13-2005, 07:40 AM
Peace Yeoshua,

I for one don't know much about freemasonry. I just wonder, do you people believe in one god, multiple gods or what exactly?

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 08:08 AM
One of the pre requisites to join Masonry is the belief in 'A Higher Being', so it does require a monotheistic belief.

It is open to all faiths.

Not to offend any of the faiths within the lodge, the God is called Great Architect of The Universe (GATOU).

Simply because I swore my oath in a predominatly Christian lodge, I swore it over the Bible, but in other contries, provinces or regions you swear over the appropriate book (Volume of Sacred Law VSL) so the Torah, Koran etc.....

Hope this helps.

Yours

Aye

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 08:19 AM
madkhao wrote:
I'm sorry, could you specify what it is you 'believe' more than most of us? Thankyou.

Specify? I doubt it, but I'll try.

Hollow earth theory, Planned depopulation, Human Genome Project, MKULTRA, HAARP, Chemtrials, Microwave mind control, Eugenics, Vaccination Assault on the Species, Fortress Europe, Mantauk, Uriel's Machine, Coral Castle, The perceptible world, Trilateral Commision, Dominant Gene, Origins of Humankind, The bloodline of The Christ, Planet X, Apollo 11, 9/11, Lucis Trust, The Men Who Stare at Goats, 1st Earth Batallion to name but a few........

Madkhao - don't take it as a personal slur - please.

Ahmad
01-13-2005, 08:20 AM
What is your definition of good and evil ?

DarkChilde3D
01-13-2005, 08:23 AM
I cannot state PROOF, but only that which I believe.

I saw a freemason ritual (DeMolay, which are, generally, junior masons) and I SENSED the mockery of a religious ritual in progress.

At first, I said to myself, 'okay, ya know what, its a frat club, is all, and everything will be okay.'

However, everytime I went to one of them, I'd pull words and phrases out that just seemed 'wrong,' so I decided to do a little bit of research at the library.

And then there were the symbols. I saw a pentogram . . . that's not cool to a Catholic . . .

And so, after I researched a few different things, I said, 'fuck it, lets look for books on satanism.'

And guess what I found . . . I found that a lot of the 'code words' that they used were actually derivatives of phrases that were written by the likes of Crowly and LaVey . . . Alisdair Crowly being what he was, and Anton Szandor Lavey, being the self-proclaimed 'black pope of satanism' (who, by the way, humored me that he used to be a caliopy player)

Its a big cult . . . without all the inconveniences of having the leader sleep with yours and everyone elses wives, while you go to work just to sign your check over to some lunatic who has a way with words. Its even bigger than Jehovas Witnesses . . . which in and of itself isn't BAD, it just doesn't seem right.

And then there was all this stuff about brotherhood, and never EVER letting a brother get into trouble . . . well, if a brother of mine robbed a bank and killed 20 people . . . does that mean if I knew it was him, am I expected to go down with him if he told me and I did nothing? That would make me an accomplice, wouldn't it?

Looking back at it now, if I were to stick with it, I'd probably be in a much better working position, making a hell of a lot more money than I am now. But is my eternal soul worth the temporary life down on earth?

And the points of view that was suggested that I had to believe in, even if I didn't agree with it? Isn't that just a bit one sided? I mean Catholics debate each other, they scrutinize the church, hell the church scrutinizes God . . . at least there is free will, even with the church. I just will myself to do the right instead of the wrong.

It's not proof, but its what I believe, and that's what was asked, right? Why we believe the masons are generally bad?

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 08:43 AM
Firstly, my definition of good and evil:

Good: selfless acts, truth, justice - Acts of the light

Evil: Careless or thoughtless acts, cruelty, inconsideration, selfishness - Acts of the darkness (not the band)

The Entered Apprentice Freemason seeks light. NOT lucifer the light bringer, but light.

OK, Next, Alistair Crowley was NOT a Freemason. DeMolay is NOT a UGLE recognised craft, therefore not true Freemasonry.

And the Oxford dictionary definition of a cult, well one of them at least, is:

Cult (n) An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

So to argue semantics, you are correct in that.

To discuss the Brotherhood. It IS expected that a brother helps another brother EXEPT where that help is either: Contrary to the laws of the country or detrimental to the wellbeing of others. Breech of these two rules is frowned upon to say the least.

I did stick with it DarkChilde3D and I'm still poor, in debt etc etc.

Yours

Aye

john
01-13-2005, 08:44 AM
Most freemasons haven`t enough power to be "the architects and engineers of the NWO". The international banksters controlling also the international corporations are. As well as the Brjezinsky or Kissinger kind of theoreticians they employ.

Freemasons just play a childish "secret society" game and make easier to the real "architects and engineers of the NWO" to find the sort of pawns they need for their own mortal game: power- and secret-lovers, antichristians (most freemasons are proud to be "free" of any religious belief), convinced of the necessity that an "elite" rule the "ignorant mass" and of course "philanthropic" enough to see themselves in the role of that "elite".

Those freemasons (politicians, "artists", corporation managers, etc) who help to construct the new planetary liberal-fascism of the gangster-banksters are only pawns. However, the fact these pawns are always high-degree masons proves enough the pernicious spirit of the freemasonry. Of course, honor to the exceptions.

madkhao
01-13-2005, 08:45 AM
Madkhao - don't take it as a personal slur - please.

Don't worry, I wasn't. I just wanted to know what your beliefs are.

Hollow earth theory, Planned depopulation, Human Genome Project, MKULTRA, HAARP, Chemtrials, Microwave mind control, Eugenics, Vaccination Assault on the Species, Fortress Europe, Mantauk, Uriel's Machine, Coral Castle, The perceptible world, Trilateral Commision, Dominant Gene, Origins of Humankind, The bloodline of The Christ, Planet X, Apollo 11, 9/11, Lucis Trust, The Men Who Stare at Goats, Earth Batallion 1 to name but a few........

To be honest, I can't tell if you're being sarcastic here. Are you serious?? Is this really what you believe in? I have to know for sure before I flip out on you..

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 09:06 AM
I'm being serious, there's a whole world out there that I am personally tring to interpret and possibly write about, but please don't wag the finger of blame at TRUE Freemasonry.

The fat cat bastards who control this world might play at being Freemasons, they might try to adopt the mantle of masonry, the governemts, cartels, bankers, Illuminati - whatever you want to call the feckers, please don't call them true Freemasons.

They might call themselves 33rd degree masons - I'm telling you this as a fact, there are only 3 degrees to true Freemasonry.

If you are really interested about TRUE Freemasonry:
http://www.bradford.ac.uk/webofhiram

Also try to read "The Hiram Key" By Knight and Lomas

Ahmad
01-13-2005, 09:16 AM
Peace Yeoshua,


I am against generalizing, many well meaning people join all kinds of societies, sects, religions for different reasons, we shouldn't condemn or label anybody before knowing him i believe.

I just have two concerns for now, and please don't take it as an interrogation, i am trying to understand,

If there are masters, there must be slaves!, how would this hierarchy benefit anyone, do you think a healthy relationship can be based on inequality?

Also, why do you have secrets? why would anybody hide something?


Thanks
Ahmad

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 09:29 AM
Ahmad wrote:
Peace Yeoshua,

If there are masters, there must be slaves!, how would this hierarchy benefit anyone, do you think a healthy relationship can be based on inequality?

Also, why do you have secrets? why would anybody hide something?


Thanks
Ahmad

Ahmad,

I believe you are mis-interpreting the term 'Master' think not of it as Master/Slave, moreover Master/Apprentice, if Stonemasonry is our allegorical tool, then there is a natural hierarchy for the Entered Apprentice, Fellow Craft and Master Mason.

Let's look at conteporary cinema, the Padowan learner is still answerable to his Jedi Master - LOL Mind you so is the Sith lord (maybe a questionable example).

And our secret are ONLY for us to identify one another, I will tell you anything about Masonry EXCEPT how we identify ourselves.

Yours

Aye

Ahmad
01-13-2005, 09:42 AM
Peace,

"And our secret are ONLY for us to identify one another, I will tell you anything about Masonry EXCEPT how we identify ourselves."

Is it for security reasons ?


Oh, and how you define "transgression"?

Yeoshua
01-13-2005, 09:55 AM
People, before anyone notices, and jumps on my error, I may have been incorrect.

I am a York Rite Freemason. Of which there are 3 degrees.

There is the Scottish Rite, where there ARE 33 Degrees.

http://www.brad.ac.uk/webofhiram/?section=ancient_accepted

This next link is a comprehensive posting of all Masonic bodies.
http://www.mastermason.com/rfire/masonry/comprehensive_list.html

I don't know much about Scottish Rite, except that it is followed in some lodges in the US.

I will attempt to learn more.

madkhao
01-13-2005, 07:26 PM
Yeo! I think you might have waltzed into the wrong site.

Perhaps you thought club conspiracy was a place where you could meet other masons and plan the next unhumane catastrophe.

By all means stay though. Perhaps we can help you undo the brainwash.

freeman
01-13-2005, 10:22 PM
You tell him, madkhao.
Hello, Yeoshua. I've been expecting you. The Evil Craft never leaves any uncriticism unchallenged for long, do they?
There are volumes I could write in rebuttal, but it is only necessary to address a few points, two most prominently.
First, when you, of course, berated us all on the thread about secret signs and symbols for not knowing what we were talking about, you then listed a link to Freemasonrywatch.org. My own post listing secret signs and symbols, including the ubiquitous "Grand Hailing Sign of Distress" WAS CUT AND PASTED FROM FREEMASONRYWATCH.ORG.
Tsk, tsk, lack of attention to detail is such a sloppy habit, but understandable from those operating from a controlled mindset, such as cult members.
As for Hitler, he was a Freemason himself (or Thules society, one of their offshoots), and his alleged persecution of Masonic lodges was largely a ruse; mostly Jewish lodges were targeted, and there are numerous documented instances of Nazi collaboration with Freemasonry. Like George W. Bush, he tried to appease the Religious Right by convincing them that he was attacking all of their enemies, i. e., pornographers, drug dealers, and yes, even the occult, while he secretly colluded with these groups to his own aggrandizement and then discarded them ruthlessly before they could undermine or doublecross him -- a la the Night of the Long Knives.
As far as the post asking me about the Masons' low membership numbers (40,000 total), I frankly don't believe it. I could find you that many Masons within a fifty mile radius of where I am sitting right now. IMHO they deliberately understate their membership to keep from alarming people. If, as we are told by their own defectors, the Illuminati are only 1% of the population, and there are more Masons than Illuminati (since few Masons advance to their ranks), and if we factor in that they have completely infiltrated the political, judicial and corporate spheres, how can 40,000 even begin to approach a realistic tally?
Finally, I would point to DarkChilde's description of his attempt to join up with the Craft. All Masons are subjected to the same paganistic rituals, no lodge is permitted to utter the name of Jesus in prayers or what passes for their worship services, and all are sworn to blood oaths requiring them to show preferential treatment to all brothers, regardless of other considerations. Even if a fellow Mason is a thief, swindler, pedophile -- or even a murderer in the upper degrees -- members are required to both keep his secrets and do everything in their power to aid him, including lying, even perjury on a witness stand. That a country like the United States of America which has enacted legislation against racketeering, discrimination and covert terrorist groups should permit a secret society like Freemasonry to operate unimpeded is unconscionable and can only point toward a much larger conspiracy encompassing all of society.
And yes, there may be a certain number of "nice people" filling out the ranks of Freemasonry's lower degrees, but they still have to be aware of the paganism, blood oaths and fraternal collusion involved, so I don't hold them blameless. I can only assume that most hang on for the fringe benefits, i. e., material success and that "secret edge" they have on everyone else.
That's enoug for now. Hurry back, Yeoshua. I have so much more to discuss with you.

marypopinz
01-13-2005, 10:34 PM
Masons = minions

That is what I have come to know in my 38 years of existence; so our new mason friend is either really blinded by Lucifer's "light" or he is trying to sell the seeing, the devil in disguise. No sale here my friend.

My two cents.. sue me!

XXX

freeman
01-13-2005, 10:36 PM
My two cents.. sue me!

If he's a real Mason, he will, Mary...and win, as soon as he throws the judge the secret sign.

marypopinz
01-13-2005, 10:56 PM
Thanx for giggles freeman, needed a laugh today.

It is the brilliant minds and beautiful hearts that keep me here. I am just typing along with what I feel and sooner or later I am going to tell someone to fuck off and then I will be banned, so I can't do that, although I could do that in real life.

That's what I don't like about life, when I can't be myself and I have to pretend to be nice. I can't do it. I'm no good at being fake. I am naturally nice and when I'm fucked off, it's generally for good reason, and then I can be a class A bitch. And sometimes I swear as I feel the situation warrants a few curse words.

I'm rambling now and it just really pisses me off when smarmy assholes hide behind their nice words of condemnation, hiding their intentions that I can clearly sense, even in cyber space.

Know what I mean?

Mary XXX

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 03:11 AM
I asked for and expect respect and an equal footing here as everywhere else in my life.

Alas, for the few, as I expected, I don't get it.

You are pointing the finger of blame in the wrong place. Freemasonry is NOT a satanic cult, nor do the lower degrees follow any stanistic dogma.

Freeman - Two topics of discussion are NEVER permitted at a lodge meeting; Religon and Politics. Brawls, let alone wars can be started that way

It is fear of the unknown that is biting you, or maybe jealousy. I'm telling you this, you'd never recognise me in the street as being a Freemason, indeed how many Freemasons listen to the music of the KLF (Against the Illuminati controlled music industry) or www.blacksmoke.org?

I have lived.

Anyone wants an intelligent conversation here, I'm more than happy to oblige, but if you want to berate me and to continue to walk with the blind mand then so be it, me, my eyes are wide fucking open to the evils of this world. And they ain't gonna be stopped by any number of fuckin Internet evengelists.

Do something real about it, boycot Exxon, boycot the elitist bastards, boycot non fairtrade food, Drive slowly on the motorway (freeway) 5 cars abreast, swap the barcodes on WalMart beans for Circle K.

By the way, while we're on about barcodes, the new testament says that everything that will be bought or sold will carry the number of lucifer.
A barcode is broken down into 3 groups of numbers, each called a six.

Interesting eh? except considering that the mark of Lucifer is actually 616. Falls apart doesn't it?

Get your inforamtion correct - then act. Don't just pontificate and wait for the inevitable.

truebeliever
01-14-2005, 03:14 AM
Hmmm...we must be annoying them.

Poor Youshwa...into the Lions Den!

Please note the Master Mason of Oz was on the telly a couple of days ago at the prestigious "Telstra Press Address".

When they come out of their holes you know somethings up.

I cut and pasted from the other link.

Someone must have smoked out the wasps nest.

-----------------------------------------------------

Yes Yeoshua. There are only 3 degrees...

for the plebs.

I'll say this and no more...

The Masons as a whole are evil. The lower levels are indeed populated by decent men. And thats where they'll stay.

You will never progress.

By your talk you are a decent man.

The Masons worship reason...Lucifer.

Another gigantic body worships reason...THE CORPORATE ENTITY.

They believe with just a bit more computing power and a good spread sheet they will put God out of a job.

Twas reason that said..."you know, we need more profits. Chop down that forest and displace that villiage that has sat there for 2000 years. If the inhabitants dont like it kill them all, including the children".

Or this..."you know, a friend of mine from Israel over at the Pentagon reckons the Middle East needs reshuffling to lay the groundwork for Glabalization of the region"...

...secretary..."but sir that may kill tens of thousands of Iraqi's"!...

..."tut tut my dear. The end justify's the means. Without this the stock market will go bust and how will I finish off my 30 million dollar mansion"?

Thats Lucifer at work. Reason not balanced with feeling.

The Mason's abhor religion and it's mystery. Masons and all the others are populated by weak men who cannot stand the word 'doubt'.

They cannot stand alone before God. They are lonely, pathetic people who refuse to bow down to God. I repeat...GOD...not some religious organization.

Only fools do that. They worship reason and Lucifer. Take one look at WW2...theres what reason and the quest for power got us and theres more on the way.

Pure reason will justify culling billions to 'protect' the planets eco system. Pure reason will dictate who lives and who dies...are you useful to the state? You're in a wheel chair...off to the disrupter chamber for you!

And all because it makes perfect sense.

Great evils are done in the name of such banality.

The Masons are evil. PERIOD. They are also banal and populated with the biggest fools I have ever met.

Grandiose "Masters Of The Universe" COCKHEADS!

They know nothing of history and prefer a Tom Clancy novel to a book on ethics and morality or the works of the great masters like Socrates.

They are Plato's "Philosopher Kings", born to rule! But not willing to take the responsability!

They leave the responsibility to the corporation. An entity that cannot go to jail.

That absolves the CEO of responsibility and lets the worker bee's fall into the blessed oblivion of the child like state of the Garden Of Eden..."I'm not responsible! My boss told me to do it"!

....or..."the state told me to kill those Iraqi's and stick broom sticks up their arses"!

Want to finish off Lucifer?

Kill the Corporation.

Let the small to medium business's thrive.

Remove all Corporate law.

Libertarians forever.

truebeliever
01-14-2005, 03:23 AM
I'm sorry Youshwa or whatever your name is.

To quote John Raulston Saul..."When it comes to the public good, politeness is for fools".

Get F****D.

You make me sick.

I know the Masons well.

That you can actually bother to post tells me two things. You are bored and have nothing to do with the Masons but are up for a stir.

You are a half hearted Mason attempt at some P.R work.

The jigs up buddy. Pack your bags. The internet conspiricy nutters are taking over and standing on very tall soap boxes yelling to the public doubters "I told you so".

When Supreme Court Judges in England start demanding Mason Judges declare their membership it's all over.

Yeh for the Ukraine speaking of banning Masonary.

If it has a secret hand shake...KILL IT.

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 04:00 AM
KILL IT?.....IT?

Depersonifying an individual? Hmmmmmm, the psycological overtones of that are astounding.

As for being a pleb, I have been asked to join The Order of The Royal Arch.

It saddens me that even amongst supposedly intelligent individuals, who should be open minded and equitable, that the primitive attitude rears its head. I don't understand it, therefore wipe it out.

Someone has suggested that Hitler was a Freemason - utter rubbish, if he was, Churchill would not have been able to take a stand against him.

Fact: Both of Napoleon's brothers were Freemasons, Napoleon wasn't. Wellington was a Freemason. Brotherly love?

Combat 18, and D Company, both Neo Nazi groups would wipe out Freemasons.......why therefore are some of you displaying the same Faschist attitudes?

My signature "......brutes by instinct."

freeman
01-14-2005, 04:39 AM
What a load of crap, Yeoshua.
As children of the devil himself, Freemasons often turn on each other and/or choose opposing sides when the occasion warrants. Otherwise the Illuminati could hot fulfill their Hegelian dialectic. Wolves in sheep's clothing are still wolves, and that is just the way your master Lucifer intended it. I have noted even at the local level, when Freemasons run out of us "profane goyim" to abuse, they turn on each other. What more can be expected from an organization that has no rules of conduct, no criteria of membership other than adherence to the blood oath? It's easier for an ex-convict to join Freemasonry than to get a job working at MacDonald's. Only the "mentally defective" are prohibited membership, because once again, the keeping of those nasty secrets is paramount.
And yes, Freemasonry IS a Satanic cult and even the lower degrees follow Satanistic dogma. And I love the way you sidestepped the issue of Jesus not being permitted to be mentioned in lodge ceremonies that acknowledge every other deity known to humnakind, including Allah, Baphomet, and even Lucifer himself. I'm talking about your ceremonies, rituals and worhsip services, not your vapid socialization rules -- and you know it.
I also love the way you fail to defend the racketeering qualities of the Freemasonic blood oath, because you know they can't be defended.
I just love you to pieces, Yeoshua, but most of all I love the surprise that Dr. Henry and I know is awaiting each and every one of your fraternal brothers when the other shoe drops from "The Red Symphony".

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 04:57 AM
Freeman,

I respect your opinion.

May I point out a number of errors in it though?

Firstly, rules of conduct: An individual may only join a lodge if he is "a free man of good repute". Excluding convicts.

There are no nasty secrets is Freemasonry, only signs used to identify another mason.

Religon and politics are not to be discussed either during tyled lodge or at the social board. It prevents disharmony, we come together in peace and leave in peace.

I assure you, I am a man of high morals and conviction, I would be no party to anything inherrently evil. I have love and respect for all my fellow men (sexism not intended).

Max Ehrmann


Desiderata

Go placidly amid the noise and haste,
and remember what peace there may be in silence.
As far as possible without surrender
be on good terms with all persons.
Speak your truth quietly and clearly;
and listen to others,
even the dull and the ignorant;
they too have their story.

Avoid loud and aggressive persons,
they are vexations to the spirit.
If you compare yourself with others,
you may become vain and bitter;
for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.
Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans.


Keep interested in your own career, however humble;
it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.
Exercise caution in your business affairs;
for the world is full of trickery.
But let this not blind you to what virtue there is;
many persons strive for high ideals;
and everywhere life is full of heroism.


Be yourself.
Especially, do not feign affection.
Neither be cynical about love;
for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment
it is as perennial as the grass.


Take kindly the counsel of the years,
gracefully surrendering the things of youth.
Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune.
But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings.
Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.
Beyond a wholesome discipline,
be gentle with yourself.


You are a child of the universe,
no less than the trees and the stars;
you have a right to be here.
And whether or not it is clear to you,
no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.


Therefore be at peace with God,
whatever you conceive Him to be,
and whatever your labors and aspirations,
in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul.


With all its sham, drudgery, and broken dreams,
it is still a beautiful world.
Be cheerful.
Strive to be happy.

freeman
01-14-2005, 05:09 AM
C'mon, Yeoshua, you can do better than this.
Obtuse lies, followed by esoteric platitudes.
You are beginning to bore me.
This foolishnes only works on the feebleminded.
You do not directly address any of my points and worm your way around like the your master the serpent.
I leave you with some valuable reading material:

Freemasonry vs. Christianity (http://www.whatismormonism.com/freemasonry/)

"The Covenant is irrevocable. Even though a person may be suspended or expelled; though he may withdraw from the Lodge, journey into countries where Masons cannot be found, or become a subject of despotic governments that persecute, or a communicant of bigoted churches that denounce Masonry, he cannot cast off or nullify his Masonic covenant; No law of the land can affect it-no anathema of the church weaken it. It is irrevocable." -Webb's Freemasons' Monitor, p. 240.

Note: This accounts for many strange and mysterious proceedings in our would-be courts of justice and in the churches. NO law of the land (that is, civil law,) can even affect this lodge oath or covenant. No anathema of the church (that is, divine law), can weaken it.

Is it any wonder that criminals go scot-free when the sheriff that impanels the jury, enough of the jurors impaneled to bring in a divided verdict, enough witnesses drummed up to make the evidence appear contradictory, the attorneys of the prosecution and of the defense, and the judge on the bench, are irrevocably bound to the prisoner at the bar as sworn brethren, by an obligation considered paramount to all others, civil or divine?

Is it anything strange that there is trouble in the church when the members are bound up, by this strong covenant, with saloon-keepers, irreverent scoffers, and other evil-minded men, in sworn brotherhood?

freeman
01-14-2005, 05:32 AM
Oh, here's another interesting link. Goes toward what Yeoshua would have us believe that no criminals are permitted into Freemasonry.
It even comes straight from Freemasonrywatch.com, remember, the link that Yeoshua tried to browbeat us all with when he said we didn't have the correct Masonic signs and symbols? Only it was the same source I used to make my own post on the subject...Did you really think no one would check, Yeoshua? (Incidentally, cool handle; means Jesus in Hebrew, right? How deliciously ironic.)

The Mafia and the Masons (http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/mafia.html)

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 05:32 AM
Freeman........

Slip on this shiny snake scale of wisdom.

You are hypothsising about a topic you know nothing about.

I'll spell it out.

Only men of GOOD REPUTE can join.

Our only secrets are those of RECOGNITION.

We DO NOT worship Satan or any of his impish hellions.

Our founding beliefs are: RELIEF (charity), TRUTH (not lies) and BROTHERLY LOVE (not hate).

Got it now?

freeman
01-14-2005, 05:37 AM
He, he, he.
I don't have to get it, Yoshua. I already got it, and so did many other members of my family -- the big, sharp Freemasonic shaft. It cost me dearly, and I won't be forgetting it anytime soon.
Don't judge me. You and your Luciferian brethren are merely reaping what you have sown.

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 05:45 AM
You should be ashamed of yourself freeman. What if this is a decent man who has nothing to do with the wicked freemasons you talk about!

Stop attacking, open your mind, try to debate, either you will get your confirmation or else get a new prespective.

Now, you will put me in one basket with the freemasons i know!. Just don't throw accusations without proof, no soul bears the sin of another.

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 05:55 AM
freeman wrote:
(Incidentally, cool handle; means Jesus in Hebrew, right? How deliciously ironic.)


Freeman, no, it's actually the Hebrew of my son's name..........Joshua

Joahua Nathaniel - It means Gift of God for the glory of Jehova

Oh, and by the way, the reason we called him that was because we were told me would probably never have children.

The day we found out my partner was pregnant was one of the happiest days of our lives, and the day he was born, he was named Joshua Nathaniel, because we felt he truly was a gift from God.

Pick the bones out of that.

My second son is going to be called Noah - Hebrew spelling Noach, that means native.

Either way, wether I call myself Jesus or after my son, strange choice of name for a Satanist - professor.

shadowman
01-14-2005, 06:29 AM
Yeoshua wrote:
One of the pre requisites to join Masonry is the belief in 'A Higher Being', so it does require a monotheistic belief.

It is open to all faiths.

Not to offend any of the faiths within the lodge, the God is called Great Architect of The Universe (GATOU).

Simply because I swore my oath in a predominatly Christian lodge, I swore it over the Bible, but in other contries, provinces or regions you swear over the appropriate book (Volume of Sacred Law VSL) so the Torah, Koran etc.....

Hope this helps.

Yours

Aye

Yeoshua. I thought the reason for swearing upon the bible, or other religious/doctrine of holy word is because this is when they give their "word" of rejecting and distancing themselves from what they onced believed. So when you say predominately Christian, Jewish, etc., what you are really saying is only that these people come from these religious/faith backgrounds. Not a freemason myself, I cannot say for sure on anything. I feel what the freemasons don't want us to know, they don't tell. As far as something I read here about secret handshakes, etc., SAME THING: do you think someone won't suggest a change in signals, being that everyone know's them? Or other secrets.

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 06:36 AM
Hi Shadowman,

We're not at all distancing ourselves from our faiths.

In the british judicaial system, the witness places his hand upon the bible, and takes his oath ".....I swear by almighty God, that I swear to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help me God".

It is the same philosophy, the oath is taken with the hand upon the VSL and commitments given to God, his duty to the country in which he resides and to his honour.

The VSL is then kissed.

shadowman
01-14-2005, 06:48 AM
Yeoshua.
So basically, let me understand, the Freemasons accept a higher power, BUT, they put country and honor of self first. They believe that this higher power wants it this way. They don't believe the higher power interferes in one way or another. It's like: OK guys, that care of this place (the world).

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 06:56 AM
shadowman wrote:
Yeoshua.
So basically, let me understand, the Freemasons accept a higher power, BUT, they put country and honor of self first. They believe that this higher power wants it this way. They don't believe the higher power interferes in one way or another. It's like: OK guys, that care of this place (the world).

No no no,

shadowman, the order in which I wrote it was:

....commitments given to God (1st), his duty to the country in which he resides (ie: the law) and his honour (integrity).

shadowman
01-14-2005, 07:00 AM
OK yeoshua.
How do they commit themselves to God.
Some people believe that #2, #3 is that commitment to God. No?

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 07:11 AM
You swear the oath to the Grand Architect of The Universe, or Grand Geometrician.

The reason GATOU is not called God, is so it can include all faiths, the same reason that we do not say "Amen" after a prayer.

789
01-14-2005, 07:14 AM
>>>I am a Master Mason and proud. I am poor, honest and of good repute in my community. I swore an oath on the Bible and I believe in God.

Who is this God ? The God of the Bible, Yahweh ? Is there any other God other than the God of the Bible ?


>>>Not to offend any of the faiths within the lodge, the God is called Great Architect of The Universe (GATOU).

Who is this great architect of the universe ? Hardly the God of the Bible. Do you pray in your lodge in the name of Jesus ?

Who is Yahbulon (Yahweh, Baal, Osiris) ?
___________________________

What is the aim of masonry politicly ? Small government or big government etc.?

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 07:42 AM
*Sigh*

Yahbulon, Yahweh is the Christian God, the God of the highly edited Old and New Testiments. The Dead Sea Scrolls.

Is there any other God other than the God of the Bible?

I don't know, ask a Hindu, or a Sikh or a follower of Islam or David Koresh.

"The lamb has in all ages been deemed an emblem of innocence; he, therefore, who wears the lambskin as a badge of Masonry, is thereby continually reminded of that purity of life and conduct, which is essentially necessary to his gaining admission into the Celestial Lodge Above, where the Supreme Architect of the Universe [God] presides" {Code Revision Committee, Masonic Manual of, Free and Accepted Masons, 10th ed.

No, we don't pray in the name of The Christ, we don't pray to anyone, we swear oaths to GATOU. Who is the God of whatever religeous persuasion the lodge is in. For the 10th time.

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 08:04 AM
Peace Yeoshua,

Your clarifications make sense to me. For as submitters we don't worship anybody or anything else than God, neither Jesus nor Muhammad.

I want to ask you if you don't mind, do you revere any dead or alive saints and see their knowledge indpendent of God? or is your relationship with God direct with no intermediaries?

And do you assign power to symbols apart from God?

We call God, the Designer, which is not far from the Architect. what are the roots of freemasonary? does it have origins in the time of the righteous servant of God king Solomon? if so what happened to it during the rise of Judaism, in the time of Moses?

789
01-14-2005, 08:17 AM
>>>No, we don't pray in the name of The Christ, we don't pray to anyone, we swear oaths to GATOU. Who is the God of whatever religeous persuasion the lodge is in. For the 10th time.

So, it is a man-made god. And that is what you belive in.

If you do not believe in the Bible why waste your time swearing an oath on it ? The Bible you swore on has a line in it "I am the way, the truth, and the light, no one comes to the Father but by me(Jesus)" This is very exclusive. How do you reconcile it with your all-inclusive grand architect ?

Have you even considered what book you are laying your hand on before you swore on it ? You swore an oath on a book that claims to be the revealed words of Yahweh, the one and only God, who created heaven and earth, then claim that you belong to the grand architect. Is that consistent ?


>>>Celestial Lodge Above

Celestial lodge ?! Are you able lead a good and pure enough life to qualify to enter into it ?

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 08:27 AM
At last!

Firstly Ahmad, I don't revere any Saints, I might have done had Mother Therresa been cannonised and I was a Catholic.

I assign no power to symbols other that that of God.

The roots of Freemasonry are indeed surrounding King Solomon, the Worshipful Master of a lodge stills sits upon the throne of king Solomon, who along with Hiram Abif (King Solomon's architect) are the two non religeous 'figureheads' of Freemasonry.

As for the disappearance of Freemasonry during the rise of Judaism, many believe a branch of Christianity carried on the belief system around Galilee by a sect of Christianity known as the Nazariah (meaning little fish). And that the anology of the biblical fishermen reflects the original belief of the Nazariah. Indeed I belive in parts of Iraq, there are still Islamic societies that call Christians "Nazariah".

It moreover adds weight to the theory that the Name Jesus of Nazareth is actually a misnomer as the town Nazareth didn't exist in his time. The suggestion might be made that the name Jesus Nazariah might be more accurate.

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 08:33 AM
So, what are the symbols of God?
What do you mean by figureheads exactly? what is the status of Hiram Abif after centuries of his departure?

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 08:40 AM
789 wrote:
So, it is a man-made god. And that is what you belive in.

If you do not believe in the Bible why waste your time swearing an oath on it ? The Bible you swore on has a line in it "I am the way, the truth, and the light, no one comes to the Father but by me(Jesus)" This is very exclusive. How do you reconcile it with your all-inclusive grand architect ?

Have you even considered what book you are laying your hand on before you swore on it ? You swore an oath on a book that claims to be the revealed words of Yahweh, the one and only God, who created heaven and earth, then claim that you belong to the grand architect. Is that consistent ?


>>>Celestial Lodge Above

Celestial lodge ?! Are you able lead a good and pure enough life to qualify to enter into it ?

789 - The belief in all Gods is man made, who else would make them? Mattell? Microsoft?

Secondly, Who says I do not belive in the bible? I just think it didn't fare very well at the hands of the Roman Catholic censors.

Penultimately, this is a circular discussion which I will clarify: I believe in God, we call God GATOU to allow any faith entry into Freemasonry.

And Finally, I do know that I will gain entry to heaven, I am a good man, with a clear conscience and pure heart. I have respect for my world and the fellow creatures I share it with.

Never above you, never below you, always equal.

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 08:55 AM
Ahmad wrote:
So, what are the symbols of God?
What do you mean by figureheads exactly? what is the status of Hiram Abif after centuries of his departure?

Hiram Abif was the father of Freemasonry, some in fact believe he was the 'True King of Egypt'.

He was murdered by ruffians as he would not part with the secrets of Freemasonry (society never changes eh?)

A lot of conpiracists would have you believe that he is supposed to be a 'substitute' Christ as he rose from his tomb - not true, his brothers found his grave and marked it with acacia leaves, and later returned to remove his body for a proper burial.

By figurehead, I meant founder or leader.....oh hang on, I shouldn't have used the word leader as now some halfwit is going to say "hang on, I thought God was your leader"....Sorry chaps, God is God, and eggs is eggs.

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 09:05 AM
Peace Yeoshua,

"Never above you, never below you, always equal"

Well said!

Here is my conclusions so far,

1- Worshiping one supreme God, great.

2- Having human righteous leaders, why not.

3- Our salvation is gained by resisting Satan and doing good, same as in Quran.

My only concern for now is the stress on rituals, uniforms and symbols! perhaps you may shed some light. In my religion symbols have no inherent powers in themselves, why glorify them?

As for the secrecy, the freemasons may have had suffered from persecution to the extent of creating such extreme secrecy and blood oathes.

Still studying!

Thanks for the information.

Ahmad

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 09:19 AM
Ahmad wrote:

My only concern for now is the stress on rituals, uniforms and symbols! perhaps you may shed some light. In my religion symbols have no inherent powers in themselves, why glorify them?

Ahmad

Salaam Ahmad

I do not feel there is any reverance given to the signs or tokens used in Freemasonry, they are simply an allegorical tool, symbolising various morals or ranks. I mentioned in a post previously that the lambskin worn by a Freemason represents spititual purity.

Unlike the Christian cross, or the figure of Lord Bhudda, they have no religeous overtones.

The ONLY one I'm aware of, is the symbol that all conspiracists jump upon, and that is of the all seeing eye. Which does, in my belief represent God. All seeing all knowing. And not attached to any single monotheistic belief. In order to be able to accept all religons.

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 09:35 AM
God has no equal, we cannot fathom His greatness. How could you represent God by an attribute of his creation, a human eye?


[42:11] Initiator of the heavens and the earth. He created for you from among yourselves spouses - and also for the animals. He thus provides you with the means to multiply. There is nothing that equals Him. He is the Hearer, the Seer.

If we accept all religions (which ofcourse have alot of satanic injections) i think the truth will surely be lost in the crowd.

For example, the Jews revere their rabbis, and follow Talmoud (ofcourse not all of them) and reject Jesus as a prophet. The Christians accept Jesus but raise him to the level of God. The Muslims do almost the same with Muhammad.

What about the false injections in their scriptures? or what scripture do you follow? what is the freemasons' law?

How can all these contradictory religions be accepted together!

Maybe the origins of freemasonry were good, but then it drifted away!.

Yeoshua
01-14-2005, 09:43 AM
A fair point Ahmad,

but as I've said, the holy law which the individual follows, must be the individuals own belief.

There is nothing in Freemasonry to say "worship a Masonic God". In fact there is no masonic God.

As for the personification of a concept such as God by the 'All seeing eye', is this not similar to the traditional Christian notion of a white haired bearded man sat upon the throne of grace?

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 09:49 AM
Any personification of God is a gross blasphemy in Submission,

[4:153] The people of the scripture challenge you to bring down to them a book from the sky! They have asked Moses for more than that, saying, "Show us GOD, physically." Consequently, the lightning struck them, as a consequence of their audacity. Additionally, they worshiped the calf, after all the miracles they had seen. Yet, we pardoned all this. We supported Moses with profound miracles.

God condemned the children of Israel once for their symbolism of God as a creature. God is far too exalted to be even imagined by our limited minds, and that's where the blasphemy comes from.

Reverence of God comes from this inability to fathom His greatness.

[39:67] They can never fathom the greatness of GOD. The whole earth is within His fist on the Day of Resurrection. In fact, the universes are folded within His right hand. Be He glorified; He is much too high above needing any partners.

diamond
01-14-2005, 01:02 PM
Hi all:

I'm also a Master Mason, though inactive at this point, but certainly proud to be one. And I'm also extremely amused to see how people bash Freemasonry without any idea of what it's about. Perhaps it's very convenient to name it as a scapegoat, since nothing else can be found. Perhaps people desperately need something to blame as a common villain. It does sound very much like Hitler making the Jews a scapegoat during WW II.

Anyway, one of the reasons why I decided to get into Freemasonry are the negative things I saw written about it on the internet, as well as the accusation of Freemasonry being "elite" and "secretive". I was curious enough to find out what this "elitism" is really about, and hence I made a petition for membership in a lodge that got accepted.

Now, let me tell you what I've found it to be: Freemasonry is primarily a social club with strong emphasis on moral and ethical values, which are common to all religious faiths. Most Masons in this lodge are Christians, but there are also some (such as myself) belonging to other faiths. The volume of sacred law (VSL) refers to any book of faith a person follows. This lodge has the VSLs of Hindus, Moslems and Christians on its altar. I'm glad it's this way, and perhaps it's the need of the hour in a world that has too many people fighting against each other because one person's mental constructs differ from that of another.

Masonic values essentially revolve around the "Fatherhood of God" and "brotherhood of man". We recognize that different people approach God in different ways and do not make a fuss about the differences. Instead, we focus on the basic truth that man derives inner fulfillment through the development of spiritual qualities such as universal love towards all beings, respect for other people, a spirit of selfless service towards other fellow-beings, and so on. These spiritual qualities are also what truly unite people and keep them together. Now, if a person wants to express these qualities through the paradigm of his religious faith, then it only enhances the greatness of his faith. And I find this to be totally pragmatic.

There certainly are some secrets of Freemasonry, and there's plenty of things to learn from the Masonic symbolism. The Masonic emblem of square and compass also carries a very important message: The square teaches one to square his actions with virtue, and the compasses teach one to circumscribe his desires and keep his passions within due bounds. The "G" symbol teaches one to put God in the center of one's life.

Masons also pledge to take care of each other in a spirit of true brotherhood. However, they are NOT supposed to violate the laws of the country they live in. Now, does this mean that this violation never happens? No, there are many black sheep among Masons too. There also have been cases of Masons getting away scot-free after committing crimes, simply because the judge happens to be a Mason. However, this is a VIOLATION of Masonic principles and NOT the norm.

Now, it's also possible that some of the illuminists have infiltrated into Freemasonry, and abused the Masonic brotherhood for furthering their causes. But please do not blame the entire fraternity for a few black sheep that give a bad name to it. My only advice to everyone is this: Do a thorough research on what the Masonic norms are and please exercise accurate thinking.

truebeliever
01-14-2005, 07:38 PM
Come on now Freemason Boy!

You are so OBVIOUS!!!!

Just why did the High Court in England demand ALL judges declare their Masonic affiliations?

What? The High court jealous of their secret handshakes?

No...theres a very good reason.

I know all about the Masons via DIRECT experience.

Reading you slither around the questions is EXTREMELY entertaining.

As for me "The Brute". I love those of the high moral ground. They cynically look on at those pathetic peasants with their silly superstitions and there emotional entanglements.

You and your ilk want to kill me.

I repeat...IF IT HAS A SECRET HANDSHAKE, K-I-L-L I-T.

You and your scum are on the run.

Only one so pathetically weak needs to join a familial 'boys' club to ward of the impending feeling of loneliness and isolation.

I joined one once. We were called the "Dunny Toughs". I was in grade 3. I grew out of it in grade 4. Your development may well be arrested. Please consult your nearest G.P. I'm sure the DSM has some medication for it.

I genuinely pity you.

billiard
01-14-2005, 07:49 PM
diamond

that was a good post and you confirmed what my father said about the masonic lodge(he is a member,3rd degree,scottish rite). the masonic lodge is not supposed to be a religious organization and it isn't.

i think it's pretty amazing how people in this forum have attacked this man .
maybe some of you have had problems with a mason(or a group of them) that is NO reason to attack people. i once had a problem with a red-headed guy ,but i don't automatically hate all red-headed people today.

truebeliever
01-14-2005, 08:19 PM
To Diamond...

I would ask...why would any institution publicly declare they will respect the law of the land?

You know...call me nieve but I thought that was a given.

It reminds me of when my Mother baked a cake when I was achild. Before she went out to hang the washing I told her without being asked that I would not touch it...

The rest is history.

Many ordinary people do not need infantile 'boys' clubs to instill values such as those supposedly exalted by the Massies.

Some of us simply have them. Some of us go to the Torah or the New Testament or to the Quaran.

We need no secret handshakes.

The history of the Masons/Illuminati is available in well referenced books easily ordered over the net.

I suggest any impressionable readers consult them before listning to one more peice of crap from the Mason P.R team currently residing here.

It is no coincidence they're out and about from the Brothels at this time. They are getting some bad and very public publicity.

Master Mason of Oz was recently on the telly spewing the same old excuses.

Watching a snake attempt to slither past you when cornered is entertaining.

Please dont go away Mason Boy's...you're great therapy...i may save thousands this month.

--------------------------------------------------------
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/politics/57381.stm

New judges must declare masonic membership

Jack Straw's move follows a 1997 Home Affairs Committee report into masons and the judiciary

Freemasons who join the police or judiciary in England have to declare their membership of the ancient fraternal society.

The move, which was introduced last month by Home Secretary Jack Straw, means serving judges will also be asked to make a voluntary declaration but will not be compelled to do so.

It will also apply to magistrates, crown prosecutors, prison staff and probation officers.

Mr Straw said recently that the government would create a register of masons working in the criminal justice system unless they were prepared to name themselves.

He said: "Membership of secret societies such as freemasonry can raise suspicions of a lack of impartiality or objectivity. It is therefore important the public know the facts."

A society with secrets

Mr Straw added: "I think it is the case that the freemasons said they are not a secret society but a society with secrets.

"I think it is widely accepted that one secret they should not be keeping is who their members are in the criminal justice system."

Last year's Home Affairs Committee report into "Freemasons in the Police and the Judiciary" found widespread suspicion about masonic links.

It recommended judges and police officers be forced to declare masonic membership but the measure was delayed for months because of a row between Mr Straw and the Lord Chancellor, Lord Irvine, over whether judges should be included.


[ image: The Home Secretary faced opposition from the Lord Chancellor]
The Home Secretary faced opposition from the Lord Chancellor
The compromise falls short of forcing existing judges to declare their interest immediately.

English freemasonry 'oldest in the world'

Some masonic historians have controversially traced freemasonry and its rituals directly from the time of Jesus Christ through the Knights Templar to the present day.

The United Grand Lodge of England, founded in 1717, claims to be the oldest masonic order in the world.

In 1984 it declared it was becoming an "open" organisation to dispel the myths that have grown over the years.


[ image: Masonic secrecy intrigues and worries outsiders]
Masonic secrecy intrigues and worries outsiders
In a leaflet distributed at that time, it said: "Freemasonry is a society of men concerned with moral and spiritual values. Its members are taught its precepts by a series of ritual dramas, which follow ancient forms and use stonemasons' customs and tools as allegorical guides.

"The essential qualification for admission into and continuing membership is a belief in a Supreme Being. Membership is open to men of any race or religion who can fulfil this essential qualification and are of good repute."

Three principles

Freemasons, the lodge said, follow three principles of brotherly love, relief and truth and practice charity.

It went on the deny the extent of masonic secrecy, which had caused much of the speculation about the true nature of the organisation.

"The secrets of freemasonry are concerned with its traditional modes of recognition. It is not a secret society, since all members are free to acknowledge their membership and will do so in response to inquiries for respectable reasons," it said.

But the Home Affairs Committee disagreed. It described freemasonry as a secret society.

Mutual advancement

It said masonic lodges were run on the basis of mutual advancement and favour-swapping.

Senior barrister Elizabeth Woodcraft says lack of knowledge remains a problem surrounding the masons.

"The troubling thing about the masonic movement or organisation is that we don't know very much about it. But what we do know is that organisation requires loyalty and adherence to a set of values that may be in conflict with the values and the requirements of justice," she said.

She said the danger was the public might believe a judge would be lenient on defendants who were masons, even if this did not happen.

Suspicions could also be raised about masonic connections advancing careers within the judiciary.

"There is an anxiety that because judges are chosen in secret that there is perhaps something a little worrying about how that goes on," Ms Woodcraft said.

One judge who admits being a mason, Lord Justice Millett, denies favours are asked for or granted by judges.

"I've never known whether anybody who's appeared before me on the bench was a mason and they've never known that I was one. And if I had, it wouldn't have made the slightest bit of difference," he said.

He added: "There's nothing slightly above the law about being a mason."

---------------------------------------------------------
http://www.mosnews.com/news/2004/12/07/masonsukraine.shtml

Ukrainian Parliamentarian Suggests Jailing Freemasons

Created: 07.12.2004 15:04 MSK (GMT +3), Updated: 15:04 MSK

MosNews

Ukrainian MP Taras Chornovil has suggested that the country’s parliament, the Supreme Rada, introduce criminal responsibility for Freemasonry, the MigNews web-site reported on Tuesday.

Taras Chornovil is the son of the late nationalist leader Vyacheslav Chornovil, and his appointment as an adviser to presidential candidate Viktor Yanukovich on West-Ukrainian affairs earlier this year provoked much criticism in nationalist circles. He will head Yanukovich’s campaign headquarters in the repeat of the controversial second round of Ukrainian presidential elections.

He has submitted to the Rada a bill entitled “On amendments to the Criminal Code of Ukraine”, according to which, membership of Freemason organizations, or any other organizations that require rituals and oaths of higher priority than the current law, must be punished by a jail sentence of up to three years.

The bill also reads that the members of Masonic organizations who are Ukrainian civil servants, law enforcers or military servicemen must be jailed for three to seven years.

Ukraine’s president, members of parliament, civil servants of ministerial rank, military servicemen and law enforcers of the rank of major-general or higher, if discovered to be members of Freemason organizations, may face up to 10 years in prison.

If the membership in a Masonic organization causes deaths, a threat to Ukraine’s national integrity or its defense potential, members of the organization must be imprisoned for 10 to 15 years, the bill reads.

In February, the leader of Ukraine’s Socialist Party, Aleksander Moroz, said that about 300 of Ukraine’s top officials were members of the St. Stanislaus Order Masonic Lodge. Later, other left-wing parties and also the pro-Western bloc headed by Yulia Tymoshenko also called on the government to ban the St Stanislaus Order in Ukraine.

Ozziecynic
01-14-2005, 10:25 PM
:-? To my reasoning the very fact that Freemasonry exists indicates to me these people believe they are superior to the mere profane citizen.
Question if one can only be invited to join due to their position in business or law etc.
Then it is clear is an exclusive club that believes they are superior to the plebian citizen.
Why is that they believe they are superior.Are the rest of us plebs merely brutes as your rating scale would seem to indicate Yeshua or diamond

Because a majority of people use instinct not just reason to exist.
All forms of ecstasy partying sports, involve instinct to be active in them.To call the sense experience or in philosophical terms the empirical method only for brutes seems pretty narrow minded to me from philosophical perspective as well as a more common one!.
There is more to life than rationality or logical positivism .I am sure you Masons already know this you simply use this Reason buzz word to hide your more metaphysical aspects from the plebians in the occult!You are not fooling this cat!. :-D

marypopinz
01-14-2005, 10:39 PM
Masons = minions

Some know, some don't.

mary XXX

Ahmad
01-14-2005, 10:42 PM
Peace diamond,

" We recognize that different people approach God in different ways and do not make a fuss about the differences. Instead, we focus on the basic truth that man derives inner fulfillment through the development of spiritual qualities such as universal love towards all beings, respect for other people, a spirit of selfless service towards other fellow-beings, and so on. These spiritual qualities are also what truly unite people and keep them together."


I think inner fulfilment is not derived from "Any spiritual qualities development", God says in Quran that there are people who do alot of good works, but gain nothing because these works are not dedicated to Him, or are not out of reverence to Him. e.g: He is not the focus of the righteous work.

So righteousness based on God alone is what truly unites people i believe.
---------------------------------------------

"There certainly are some secrets of Freemasonry, and there's plenty of things to learn from the Masonic symbolism."

As for symbolism i am still thinking about this aspect of freemasonry. Expressing an idea by a symbol, number or letters is not harmful in itself, however if that symbol/number/word took a life of its own, and people started pursuing it while disregarding its meaning, it turns into an idol rivaling God.e.g: which maybe what happened with the Kaballa, they lost the meanings of the numbers.

----------------------------------------------

"The "G" symbol teaches one to put God in the center of one's life. "

I can't agree more, this is the essence of "Submission", the creed of Abraham.
----------------------------------------------

"Now, it's also possible that some of the illuminists have infiltrated into Freemasonry"


I am starting to think in these terms, perhaps there has been a massive infiltration of this harmless religion that goes back to Solomon.
-------------------------------------------------


To Ozziecynic,

"one can only be invited to join due to their position in business or law"


If that's so, then it is evil. In "Submission" there is no distinction between any man or woman and another except based on reverence of God/righteousness.
Race, color, wealth, gender mean nothing to God.

Ozziecynic
01-14-2005, 10:45 PM
:idea:Rather than attacking a powerful and dangerous bunch of international sociopaths like this which could squash each one of us. If we ever crossed them badly enough.
Wouldnt it better rather than attacking them in this forum to instead decipher their next synarchy movement they will use as the vanguard of their next revolution or subversion.
I have already pointed out a very good one in the NWO operatives thread but not enough people have yet to respond to it!It is clear the masons use this movement and others like to create the conditions for the anti christ. :-?

truebeliever
01-15-2005, 12:21 AM
G'Day fellow croc wrestler! OC.

Yes I could'nt agree more.

The love of the rational, pious indifference to the lowly peasants and there superstitious rubbish.

Thats the Masons and their good friends the Illuminati!

At first they rebeled against the right of Kings to rule when in fact they just want to replace them.

They are no mystery. The same old gang of lost and lonely Lucifer worshipping fools who just cannot bear to acknowledge there common humanity.

They have no faith in human beings.

Like Lucifer they will not bow down.

They place there noses in the air and laugh at the silly peasant fools with their religion, festivals, mysteries, cultural icons and ability to doubt and admit they do not know.

Not so the Lucifer worshipping Masters Of The Universe down on Wall Street. Or the silly "Rich Dad Poor Dad" reading fools who are all going to shaft every one and retire at 35 with their properties and Network marketing schemes.

If it meets in secret...if it has a secret handshake...if its invite only...KILL IT.

And you can take that to mean anything you like.

Will check out your post.

freeman
01-15-2005, 06:34 AM
Quote from Diamond:
Masons also pledge to take care of each other in a spirit of true brotherhood. However, they are NOT supposed to violate the laws of the country they live in. Now, does this mean that this violation never happens? No, there are many black sheep among Masons too. There also have been cases of Masons getting away scot-free after committing crimes, simply because the judge happens to be a Mason. However, this is a VIOLATION of Masonic principles and NOT the norm.

Now, it's also possible that some of the illuminists have infiltrated into Freemasonry, and abused the Masonic brotherhood for furthering their causes. But please do not blame the entire fraternity for a few black sheep that give a bad name to it. My only advice to everyone is this: Do a thorough research on what the Masonic norms are and please exercise accurate thinking.

________________________________________________


This is one of my favorite Masonic rationalizations. When you finally corner them with indisputable essence of Masonic racketeering, criminal activity and general abuse, they always try to slough it off to some "rogue element" within Freemasonry. Yet Freemasonry never acknowledges the inherently dangerous flaws in their system of "secret fraternalism", much less do they investigate or institute any reforms. But hey, if the house has burned down a few dozen times, that doesn't mean there's any need to check the wiring or revise the fire codes, right?
Also, let's keep in mind that their philosophy of universal monotheism or GATU, The Grand Architect of the Universe, does not exclude the possibility of Satanism, since Satan considers himself as much a deity as God Himself; ergo, Satanists are NOT excluded from Freemasonry. This is why Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses and eventually the upper levels of the Craft all eventually graduate to a theosophical teaching that "God and Satan reversed places in the garden of Eden", so as to complete the deception in the minds of their feckless followers.

_________________________________________________

DrippyBits
01-16-2005, 12:22 AM
I recently discoverd a mason where I work....he's a good guy, no doubt....He told me if I wanted info on masonry to look it up on the net cause he wasn't talkin'. However he said they don't let Roman Catholics in due to the whole confession thing. I'm reading " the Hiram Key " right now, they claim Jesus was a mason, right?

truebeliever
01-16-2005, 02:39 AM
Dear Freeman,

If it meets in secret, has a secret handshake, is elitist then kill it.

That can be taken anyway anyone wants.

Secrets are for drug dealers and paedophile ring organisers.

Human beings share knowledge and power they do not hoard it.

The Masons are what the Masons are. Whether infiltrated by the Illuminati or run by the janitor on his day off they should at least be treated with contempt...people will have to trust their feelings when it comes to secret societies.

If they were grade 3's i would'nt care.

At the top levels they are run by Judges, CEO's, Police Cheifs, Polititions and various other assorted rif raf.

Theres a time to be nice/diplomatic and theres a time to stomp the Viper directly on the head. This is one of those times.

Of course thats only my opinion.

If I had my way I would head down to the "Australia Club" on St Georges Terrace, Perth Western Australia. Ask everyone to leave and burn it down while sipping a fine Red from Margret River.

The parliament of W.A is 400 meters from the MAsons hang out. Not to far for the bicycle courier to pass on the orders of the day to our Premiere Geoff Gallop.

Best.

Yeoshua
01-19-2005, 06:36 AM
Truebeliever, you really do talk with it swinging in the breeze don't you?

Kill it? IT?

I've said it before and I'll say it again the primeval instinct of killing what you don't understand. The holy men did it to the Incas, the Romans to the Christians and the founding fathers to the Native Americans.

Yeeee ha howdy pardner.

anonymiss
01-19-2005, 06:04 PM
DrippyBits wrote:
I recently discoverd a mason where I work....he's a good guy, no doubt....He told me if I wanted info on masonry to look it up on the net cause he wasn't talkin'. However he said they don't let Roman Catholics in due to the whole confession thing. I'm reading " the Hiram Key " right now, they claim Jesus was a mason, right?

some say Jesus was a metaphysician

freeman
01-19-2005, 09:40 PM
right now, they claim Jesus was a mason, right?


some say Jesus was a metaphysician
_________________________________________________

Here is what Jesus had to say about swearing oaths:

1a) Matt 5:33-37

5:33 "Again, you have heard that it was said to those of ancient times, 'You shall not swear falsely, but carry out the vows you have made to the Lord.' 5:34 But I say to you, Do not swear at all, either by heaven, for it is the throne of God, 5:35 or by the earth, for it is his footstool, or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the great King. 5:36 And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make one hair white or black. 5:37 Let your word be 'Yes, Yes' or 'No, No'; anything more than this comes from the evil one.
_________________________________________________

Not exactly the campaign speech for a Worshipful Master.
Also, since Jesus is the only deity whose name is not permitted to be used in what passes for worship services in freemasonic lodges, he is sure getting short shrift from his "fraternal brethren", if he is a "brother". But who knows, maybe he fell behind in his dues. (Gee, you'd think they could have gotten him a better job, too, wouldn't you? Or a low-interest bank loan to start up his ministry with...)
As far as the metaphysician claims, who knows, but if Jesus really was a "made man", wonder why the Pharisees laid so many malpractice claims on him...

lynns_shadow
01-19-2005, 10:31 PM
Also, let's keep in mind that their philosophy of universal monotheism or GATU, The Grand Architect of the Universe, does not exclude the possibility of Satanism, since Satan considers himself as much a deity as God Himself; ergo, Satanists are NOT excluded from Freemasonry. This is why Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses

Right, broad road=Monism and all that I was saying here, in this forum.

some say Jesus was a metaphysician
_________________________________________________

Meta-physics, as I have understood it, is an occultic pursuit, blending some science interests with the occult and/or paranormal.

Such studies can be done individually or in groups, and on various topics. Generally, they spill over into what we would normally classify as "new-age". Having been in it at one time, this is my understanding.

Jesus Christ is not a "metaphysician", He is God.

I suppose some may find it cute to place labels on Him, but His deity and the fact of this defies labels of men and scholars.

Though He can never be limited by any of our words, it's good to remember the truth :-)

I have heard Him called "The Great Physican" though, perhaps that's what was meant :-)

Matthew 9:22, Matthew 9:27-30, Luke 7:6-10 and Luke 8:48

lynns_shadow
01-19-2005, 11:42 PM
and also on metaphysics ( occult) and the Lord Jesus Christ,

I just read this and had to put this quote here, for clarity, it seems to say a lot to this talk of miniminzing Christ, not that it could be done.


Please see:

NOAHIDE LAWS AND DECAPITATION FOR CONFESSING JESUS IS LORD

"IT IS IN FACT, THE LUBAVITCH JEWISH MOVEMENT OF WHICH THE NWO IS BASED"

http://www.thewatcherfiles.com/noahide_laws.htm

which freeman so kindly posted here (thank you freeman :-) )

Here is the quote I had in mind. It's late,but I felt it was important to this talk:

". Don Bell again sheds much light upon this Lubavitch Movement, when he quotes Rabbi Louis Finkelstein, the head of the Jewish Theological Seminary of America in 1943, writing in the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia, "Pharisaism became Talmudism...the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the Jew studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating arguments used in the Palestinian academies." In other words, the Talmudic Lubavitchers are reborn Pharisees. Our listeners should immediately be alerted by this revelation, because, on July 17, 1993, we studied the beliefs of the Pharisees and discovered that they were occutlic. Many Pharisees belonged to the Jewish occult group, the Cabal, Satanic through and through. We studied that the Jewish Cabal forms a most important foundational building block upon which the entire New World Order movement is based. Finally, we showed how these Pharisees could hate Jesus Christ so vehemently, even in the face of His tremendous miracles. We understood how Jesus possessed such hatred of the teachings and the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. Once we understand that the Pharisee of Jesus' day was involved in a Satanic secret society, we can understand how they could hate him so much.

Then, on July 24, we studied how these Pharisees originated the Unpardonable Sin. They viewed the many supernatural miracles of Jesus and believed that He was able to accomplish these miracles because He was an Adept in the Egyptian Mysteries. He could, therefore, access the power of the occult. Jesus warned them not to ascribe His power to Satan, but they continued to do so, thus committing the Unpardonable Sin. To this day, secret societies continue to teach their members that Jesus could do His many miracles because He was an Adept in the occult.

The Pharisees also succeeded in killing Jesus Christ on the basis that He blasphemed God, which is Noahide Law # 2. Remember Jesus' words, in Matthew 10:24-25, that the disciples of the Master will be treated in just the same way as the Master has been treated. I wonder if this Scripture has any bearing upon this current situation? Public Law 102-14 sets the foundation for American and United Nations Law to be established in such a way as to uphold these Seven Noahide Laws. These seven laws are a counterfeit of the Ten Commandments, and are promoted by the Neo-Pharisee occult group, the Lubavitchers. Don Bell further states that the Lubavitchers are a "Mystic" group, thus signifying that they teach the Cabal as well as the Talmud. This revelation ties them directly into the secret societies of today which are powering the drive into the New World Order, i.e., the Illuminati, the Freemasons, and the Bilderberger Group, just to name a few. Thus, it would seem natural that these secret societies would look favorably upon a Mystic Jewish group, which has its active roots in the ancient Cabal, a group which is a soul-mate to today's secret societies.

Is Satan setting the stage where Christians could be legally charged with violation of Noahide Law, Number 2, of blaspheming God? Certainly, our doctrine that Jesus Christ is God in the flesh would constitute "blasphemy against God", just as it did against Jesus. But, our punishment would be decapitation, a much more humane way to die than crucifixion. What does Scripture foretell as to the way in which true Christians will die in the Tribulation Period? Jesus reveals, in Revelation 20:4, that Christians in the Great Tribulation will be beheaded, i.e., decapitated, precisely the method proscribed by the Talmud. This is just one more instance in which the stage is apparently being set for the precise fulfillment of Biblical prophecy.

http://www.cuttingedge.org/ce1090.html

God's wisdom won't mix the Holy with the profane, especially when it's the true God ;-)

marypopinz
01-19-2005, 11:49 PM
Can I post this? I may edit a little or not.

Henry

Mrs. Mary Spencer wrote:



Dear Henry:

Another intelligent, excellant read, as always. You are a dude.

I thought I'd share a personal experience of Freemasonry with you as you have been very kind to me, and patient with me, in your forum. You have been great therapy - allowing me to see the bigger picture while still maintaining my personal faith in a brighter tomorrow, somewhere down the road, when the truth comes to light. Thank you.

I am a 38 year old twice-divorced mother of three children. My father was a Mason and my mum had recieved shock therapy, long before I was adopted into their home. It's hard for me to accept my mum was a bit cracked. She was so good in so many ways and she was mentally ill.

My father was also a pedophile. It has taken me many years to come to terms with the fact that I was knowingly placed into the home of a pedophile. It makes you feel worthless, as a person... that is also a combination of the effects of molestation on a child. It destroys your ability to trust, taints future relationships, destoys family bonds, and creates a lot of anger and violence, in a child.

How am I as a person to accept that the masons, pedophiles that they ultimately aim to be, are the minions of government, the banking elite, my local cops and those who would destroy my children's hope for an education and a better future?

Once again I will repeat. Satan's agenda is to rape God's children. Full stop. That's where this ball game ends. It's not about the money. They know and we all know it is worthless paper funny money. Nor the oil, there is plenty of that. An iceburg is a lot of fresh drinking water. It's one of those dialect things. It's all diversion and WWF. It's about the kids. God help me, I'm typing the truth.

I must have a traumatised mind because it is photographic by nature and my memory is very long. I am telling you the truth and people really need to wake up to that specific fact. Can you imagine what it is like to deprogram your own mind? Talk about self-help...

masons are minions

The government wants your children's soul
They plan to rape as many as possible
I am not fear mongering.

I am fore-warning that all things are possible in God's name. Whether God is going to allow it or not, is a different story. I personally, would appreciate you investing into this specific tainted issue and writing your thoughts on the matter that I must personally address within myself?

Mary XXX
Howse that for honesty?

I would appreciate comments from posters here.

My father was a very sick man in a lot of ways. He also came from a very sad up-bringing. My mum came from dirt poor, during the second world war. Holes in her only shoes, one dress to wash out daily and bread and drippings for a meal. I miss her very much, still, to this very day.

I do not acknowledge my father.

My older brother and I have only just, this year, resumed some form of friendly communication. I am 38. We both left home at 16, as fast as our legs could carry us.

His life has been similiar to my mine. Filled with heartbreak and despair, choosing poor partners and trying to ignore the shame of our family's past. Funny though, we have both been highly successful financially.

We both have been knocked down, on many occasions, and we get right back up. We've both been financially ruined on more than once and we still come good. We are both very good parents - highly conscientious of what we are doing and the effects it will have on our children. We both spend most of our time with our children.

People can judge and jury me all they like. I have been to hell and back and I'm still here. I still care.

XXX

XXX

Yeoshua
01-20-2005, 02:59 AM
Hi Mary,

I know a woman who was abused by her biological father too. He was a gardener.

Again, it is a sweeping generalisation that you are making or that the original poster is making that ALL Freemasonry and Masons are peodophiles. What utter codswallop.

I've said it before and I'll say it again that blaming Freemasonry for the worlds evils is like blaming spoons on Roseanne Barr being fat.

marypopinz
01-20-2005, 09:53 AM
Yoshi

The cream of the masons are pedophiles whether you acknowledge that FACT OR NOT.

Of course, that does not mean all the baby minions know what their higher ups are doing, or they are practising the sport of preying on children.

masons = minions
whether they or you, know it or not.

Perhaps I should lay out the Nova Scotia food chain of masons and pedophiles. It includes judges, lawyers, the S.S. squad, doctors, police, principals, teachers, Crown prosecutors... all the way up to the top.

I guess you and me are going to have to agree to disagree on this one. I cannot change your mind no more than you can my knowledge.

Mary XXX

diamond
01-20-2005, 10:02 AM
Hi Yeoshua:

If someone wants to scapegoat you, they can easily come up with "evidences" to back up their premise that you're a bad guy. It's really a subconscious mechanism of the mind....to look for all those things that support its hypothesis, and conveniently ignore everything else that contradict it, no matter how glaring the "opposing evidence" might be. That's how Hitler could scapegoat all the Jews in WW2. And the Germans, who were desperately looking for a scapegoat to blame for their problems, fell into this trap.

Perhaps the same thing is happening to the Freemasons now....Victimhood always needs scapegoats to blame it on!

Masonic principles are pragmatic and the need of the hour in today's world. And I'm glad to see that many Masons hold on to it with pride.

marypopinz
01-20-2005, 10:20 AM
Pragmatic?

Masons are practical?
They like to play with language, that's true. They also would ike to change the meaning of family life.

Ignorance is not bliss, it is ignorance.

pragmatism: n. 2. an approach that evaluates theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application

Yeah, that sounds like the masons to me...

So, why is it that when a new corrupt member of society enters, he/she is encouraged to be seen in the church, join the rotary or kiwana's and keep the cocaine a secret. Give me a break please!

I will agree to disagree with the masons. I don't like what they stand for and what they have their dirty paws into.

I know what I know and that is that.

Mary XXX

diamond
01-20-2005, 11:06 AM
"So, why is it that when a new corrupt member of society enters, he/she is encouraged to be seen in the church, join the rotary or kiwana's and keep the cocaine a secret. Give me a break please!"

I've personally interviewed a few petitioners for membership, and we're always adviced to look for a high degree of morality and strong commitment to family life as well as society, to even consider the petition. But Masons are humans and it is not possible for humans to be perfect in their judgement. So some corrupt persons do get in. But they're certainly not "encouraged" to keep their dirty activities secret. It's strictly against Masonic norms to indulge in such things.

I've also spent time with several 33 degree masons (the highest degree) and they too are men of exemplary caliber. I've hung out with them a lot and seen it with my own eyes, so I do not need anyone to validate what I've seen.

However, what could happen is this....Many of the illuminists could have infiltrated into the highest degree of Masonry and then started recruiting their own people, telling them to conceal their dirty work. The illuminist Masons must be running their own parallel secret society that abuses the privileges of the Masonic brotherhood to promote their dirty work....I do not deny that it can happen, and I can also see how it can happen.

But that is NOT what Masonry stands for. It's very much like asking why so many Catholic priests are guilty of child abuse, and then blaming Roman Catholicism for supporting child abuse. The staunch Roman Catholics (and also the pope) know that their religion does NOT promote child abuse. It's a distortion and a misuse of power on the part of the priests. If such a thing can happen in the Roman Catholic church, it can happen in Freemasonry too, and I can also see how it would.

I've also met several ex-missionaries who used to be a part of some fundamentalist Christian church. They have told me a lot of very ugly things about Christianity, and what the Christians stand for. And mind you, this is coming from erstwhile PREACHERS....and NOT some ordinary churchgoer. Does this mean that the church stands for all these ugly things? Well, I've also met many Christians who are wonderful people and have strong spiritual qualities that are worth cherishing. If you want to learn about something and what it stands for, you learn from the GOOD examples, and also emulate whatever is worth emulating.

So I'll once again state my stand....I NOT approve of the abuse of Masonry by the illuminists, and if anything can be done in my part to prevent it from happening, I'll certainly do so. But I am very much proud of what true Masonry stands for, and I do state that it's very much the need of the hour. Also, my stand on Freemasonry is NOT dependent on what other people think of it. So, if anyone wants to disagree with me, they are free to do so and I have no problems with it.

We are here to make the world a better place, and I'll support anything that furthers this cause.

marypopinz
01-20-2005, 06:06 PM
Diamond,

Come to Bridgewater Nova Scotia and you will understand exactly everything I am saying. You can see it with your own eyes. Read the Bridgewater Bulletin online at tallships.ca with an open mind to what I am saying and then tell me honestly you did not get a sniff of what I am saying.

I SAW THE SAME THING IN ENGLAND.

I have hard evidence hidden all over the world... no joke and it is just the push of a button away from being displayed on the net.

I mean no disrespect and ignorance is not bliss.

Mary XXX



COCAiNE AND MASONREY AND PEDOPHILIA HAND IN HAND THROUGHOUT EVERY BRANCH OF GOVERNMENT. I AM TELLING THE TRUTH.It is sick. It is Satanism.

Is it coincidence that Afghanistan has the best opium = heroin that is currently replacing the cocaine traffic as the Columbians were not easily controlled?

The NWo's grreeeeeeeeeeeeeeeed for oil and lust for children has been their achilles heel and their ultimate undoing... the truth is coming to light whether anyone else chooses to acknowledge it or not.

How much faith would you place in a lie?
Masonry = minions
Some know, some don't

Mary XXX

freeman
01-20-2005, 09:11 PM
I've personally interviewed a few petitioners for membership, and we're always adviced to look for a high degree of morality and strong commitment to family life as well as society, to even consider the petition.

Show me one concrete example of a mason being disciplined or expelled for moral transgression.
I have never observed this, although I know from personal experience that they are vehemently punished for violation of the blood oath and not keeping each other's "secrets".
If freemasonry really is this moralistic, fraternal, charitable organization dedicated to "making good men better" that you suggest, then it should be concerned with its public and private image and be willing to disciplline and castigate its miscreant membership as necessary. That is, after all, what the Catholic Church was ultimately compelled to do, as re your example of pedophile priests.

So I'll once again state my stand....I NOT approve of the abuse of Masonry by the illuminists, and if anything can be done in my part to prevent it from happening, I'll certainly do so.

That's simple enough, diamond. Demit yourself. Is there any other choice, since your masonic hierarchy is totalitarian by nature, and you cannot challenge or criticize them?

55132
01-20-2005, 10:21 PM
DESCRIPTION OF THE ORGANIZATION OF FREEMASONRY

Let us hear Masonic author Manly P. Hall describe this two-dimensional organization of Freemasonry. Masonry is comprised of two distinctly different organizations, one visible and one invisible. Hall describes this two-level organization: [Hall was honored by The Scottish Rite Journal, who called him 'The Illustrious Manly P. Hall' in Sept, 1990, and further called him 'Masonry's Greatest Philosopher', saying "The world is a far better place because of Manly Palmer Hall, and we are better persons for having known him and his work"]. This is what Manly P. Hall said:

" Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity -- an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect ... it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of 'free and accepted' men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as 'of majestic dignity, grandeur'] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as 'a secret, a mystery']." [Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 433]

Many well-meaning men are members of this visible society with no knowledge whatsoever of the inner invisible society. In fact, Albert Pike had some things to say about the brethren in the visible society: "Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it." [Morals and Dogma, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]

Did you hear these key words from Pike? Masonry is a religion after all, after the order of the Satanic Mysteries, the equally Satanic Hermetic Philosophy, and Alchemy! Masonry conceals its secrets from the brethren in the outer visible society, no matter their rank; only the Elect in the inner invisible society ever know the truth. The poor brethren in the visible society are spoon-fed "false explanations and misinterpretations" of its symbols" -- for what reason? -- those poor guys in the visible society "deserve only to be mislead".

If a man were known to revere Jesus Christ in the beginning of his membership within Masonry, he would be immediately shunted into the visible society, and would never, ever learn the truth. You would never be considered an Adept, or a Sage, or one of the Elect, for those terms are reserved for the members of the invisible society. You would be one of those who were deliberately lied to about the doctrines of Masonry, and given deliberate misinterpretations of its symbols, so that you would merely THINK you knew the Truth.

Pike then completes his instructions to intentionally mislead those members of the visible society, by saying: "So Masonry jealously conceals its secrets and intentionally leads conceited interpreters astray." [Ibid., p. 105]

Members of the visible society are referred to as the 'masses', and you do comprise 95% of all Masons. Listen to what Pike says about telling the truth of the organization to the 'masses': "A Spirit", he said, "that loves wisdom and contemplates the Truth close at hand, is forced to disguise it, to induce the multitudes [that is you] to accept it ... Fictions are necessary to the people, and the Truth becomes deadly to those who are not strong enough to contemplate it in all its brilliance." [Morals and Dogma, p. 103, 3rd Degree; Emphasis added]

If a person is not capable of accepting the Truth that inner-core, invisible Freemasonry really worships and serves Satan, then such Truth would become "deadly" to you. Therefore, "fictions are necessary" so visible Masons would not be so devastated that they would leave Freemasonry and expose its inner secrets.

A very recent book also speaks of these two organizations. David Ovason, a noted astrologer, has written a book publised in 1999, entitled, The Secret Architecture of our Nation's Capital: The Masons and the Building of Washington, D.C. This book is not an anti-Mason book; in fact, a glowing forward to this book is written by none other than C. Fred Kleinknecht, 33 Degree, Sovereign Grand Commander, The Supreme Council, 33 Degree (Mother Council of the World), Southern Jurisdiction, U.S.A., Washington, D.C. In other words, the conclusions of this book are highly thought of by one of the most important current Masons in the world today! Listen to what this book says about the two organizations of Freemasonry,

After speaking of the "cosmic astral journey in Masonic terms", Ovason speaks of the meaning of the more common symbols of Masonry. "... Bromwell injected a profound level of esotericism into the bland-seeming symbols used within the Lodges. These proliferate on the so-called tracing boards and carpets ... used by Master Masons to demonstrate Masonic symbols to the neophytes. When not used as an instrument of education, the tracing boards and carpets remain as symbols of the Lodge -- of the inner and outer way of the Craft." [Page 99] So, David Ovason admits that Masonry has both an "inner" [Invisible] and an "outer" [Visible] society. And, Albert Pike has boldly stated that the "neophytes" are deliberately taught untruths about the meaning of the symbols!

New Age author, Bill Cooper has this to say about these two fraternities, one within the other. "Most members of the Freemasons are not aware that the Illuminati practices what is known as 'secrets within secrets' or organizations within organizations." [Behold A Pale Horse, p. 79]

The final example of this "fraternity within a fraternity", the Invisible residing within the Visible, comes from the oldest New World Order planning document known to be in existence. This document is one of the best examples of Automatic Writing, and it details many of the changes societies throughout the world must make in order to achieve the Kingdom of The Christ. This document is known as the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion, and is being followed carefully today. Listen as the supernatural author speaks of the two organization within Freemasonry. The author is speaking of the guise by which the Illuminati will ultimately seize dictatorial control.

"7. For what purpose then have we invented this whole policy and insinuated it into the minds of the gentiles without giving them any chance to examine its underlying meaning? For what, indeed, if not in order to obtain in a roundabout way what is for our scattered tribe unattainable by the direct road? It is this which has served as the basis for our organisation of SECRET MASONRY WHICH IS NOT KNOWN TO, AND AIMS WHICH ARE NOT EVEN SO MUCH AS SUSPECTED BY, THESE GENTILE CATTLE, ATTRACTED BY US INTO THE SHOW ARMY OF MASONIC LODGES IN ORDER TO THROW DUST IN THE EYES OF THEIR FELLOWS." [Protocol #11 - The Totalitarian State, Paragraph 7; Emphasis was in the original]

Notice that this supernatural author described the Freemasons of the Outer, Visible Fraternity as "Gentile Cattle" which had been deliberately drawn into the Fraternity for "show" so as to "throw dust in the eyes of their fellows". It turns out that the Masons of the Invisible Fraternity think quite lowly of the Masons of the Visible Fraternity!

But, why should we be surprised, for Albert Pike called the Visible brethren who are just trying to learn what the symbols of the Lodge mean, "conceited interpretors". [Morals and Dogma, p. 105]

By the way, for those of you who have tried to convince me that Albert Pike is discredited today, listen to what David Ovason in his book on the secret Masonic architecture of Washington, D.C., says about Pike:

1. "Albert Pike -- probably the most learned esotericist in the United States ..." [P. 31]

2. "... Albert Pike was a fine scholar in some areas ..." [P. 92]

3. "The learned Albert Pike ..." [P. 366]

4. "... Pike died in his rooms at the temple on April 2, 1891. Seven years later, Congress approved the raising of the Albert Pike memorial ... The statuary is imposing. A larger-than-life, full-length satute of Pike stands on a high pedestal, attended by a lamenting woman said to represent the spirit of Masonry." [P. 321]

Remember, this book was glowingly recommended by the current top leader of Freemasonry, C. Fred Kleinknecht, 33 Degree, as noted above! Obviously, if Mr. Kleinknecht thinks this highly of Albert Pike, then all those people who have tried to convince me otherwise need to take this matter up with Mr. Kleinknecht! The fact is, Pike IS Freemasonry today.

There IS one short paragraph that properly and concisely defines the heart and soul of the Invisible Fraternity of Freemasonry. Let us return to Manly P. Hall for this quote:

"When a Mason learns the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply energy." [The Lost Keys To Freemasonry, Manly P. Hall, published by the Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company, Inc., Richmond, Virginia, 1976, p. 48; Emphasis added]

The Scottish Rite Journal praised Manly P. Hall in 1990 as "Masonry's Greatest Philosopher". One 32nd Degree Mason wrote back to me, stating that he had never, ever heard of Manly P. Hall; yet you can see his book was published by the Macoy Publishing and Masonic Supply Company. The only reason this high-ranking Mason had never heard of Manly P. Hall is that Hall was a leader of the Invisible Fraternity, while this Mason was participating in the Visible Fraternity!

Another 33rd Degree Freemason, Foster Bailey, sponsored his wife, Alice A. Bailey, into Co-Masonry, where she became a key leader. Alice was also the top leader of the House of Theosophy from the 1920's to the early 1950's; she was a prolific writer, admittedly a channeler for a spirit by the name of Master D.K. She had significant revelations to add to this subject of Inner, Invisible Freemasonry.

"There is no dissociation between the One Universal Church, the sacred inner Lodge of all true Masons, and the inner-most circles of the esoteric societies. [Bailey, Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p. 513]

Bailey is saying here that, once you get into the Inner, Invisible part of Freemasonry, there is no distinction possible between this heart of Masonry, the true Universal Church [which we know to be the church of Antichrist], and of the similar inner-most circles of the other secret societies throughout the world.

But, then, Bailey makes an even stronger statement revealing the Inner, Invisible Masonic fraternity. "The Masonic Movement ... is the custodian of the law; it is the home of the Mysteries, and the seat of initiation. It holds in it symbolism the ritual of Deity, and the way of salvation is pictorially preserved in its work. The methods of Deity are demonstrated in its Temples, and under the All-seeing Eye the work can go forward. It is a far more occult organisation than can be realised, and it is intended to be the training school for the coming advanced occultists." [Bailey, Externalisation of the Hierarchy, p. 511]

Since the meaning of the word, "occult", is "hidden", or "invisible", we know that Bailey is here speaking of the Inner, Invisible part of Freemasonry. And, not only is does this Invisible Fraternity exist, it is intended to be the training ground for the coming advanced occultists!!

THIS is the Invisible Freemasonry, about which you have been kept in ignorance all along! To verify this fact even further, we encourage you to go to the publishing and distribution house of Invisible Freemasonry, Kessinger's Freemasonry and Occult Publishing; Kessinger's publishes all the old, formerly very secret Masonic books of the Invisible Society. The address is http://www.kessingerpub.com/ and we encourage you to peruse the subjects they have listed at the very bottom of their Home Page, noting the extremely Satanic, anti-Christian subjects of which the Invisible Fraternity is comprised! We have noted a few of these subjects below as Kessinger's has listed them:

Alchemy; Ancient Religions; Astral Body [Satanic practice]; Astrology [Forbidden in Bible]; Auto-Suggestion; Babylonian; Blavatsky, H.P. [one of the most Satanic Black Magick practitioners of all time! Her teachings were studied by Adolf Hitler and provided basis for the Jewish Holocaust]; Buddhism; Card Reading; Chaldean [Babylon and Chaldean Mysteries were brought into total annihilation by God for their severe Satanism, and is the same Babylon condemned in the Book of Revelation]; Christian Mysticism [This is the "Christianity" of Masonry, where every single doctrine is reinterpreted]; Christian Science [Fully anti-Christian but compatible with Masonry]; Clairvoyance [Satanic to the core and forbidden in the Bible]; Color and Sound [Critically important to Satanism]; Cosmic Consciousness [SATANIC]; Crystal Gazing [Forbidden in Bible]; Divination [Forbidden in Bible]; Druidism and Celts [Elevated human sacrifice to highest levels]; Eastern Doctrines; Esoteric Christianity [Redefining Christian doctrines]; Evolution [And you just thought Masonry was compatible with true Christianity]; Fortune Telling [Forbidden in Bible]; Geomancy and Gematria [Satanic]; Gnosticism [Fought against in the Epistles of Paul in the Bible]; Hermetic; Holy Grail [Satanic allegory to produce Antichrist]; Hypnotism; Islam; Karma [Satanic doctrine teaching Reincarnation]; Love and Sex Consciousness [Completely Satanic]; Magic [Forbidden in Bible]; Nature Worship [Sun Worship primary worship of Invisible Freemasonry]; Palmistry [Satanic Divination]; Phallicism [Worship of Male erect Sex Organ!]; Qabalah [Satanic Reinterpretation of Hebrew Old Testament]; Reincarnation; Rosicrucian [Satanic to the core]; Serpent Worship [Not only is Masonry a religion, it worships the Serpent, actually Satan himself]; Telepathy [Satanic communication without audible language]; Tarot [Divination forbidden in Bible]; Transcendental Physics; Zoroastrianism [Satanic cult destroyed by God in Old Testament].

THIS is the heart and soul of the Invisible, Inner Fraternity. The absolute darkest part of this heart is Phallicism, worshipping the erect Male Sex Organ. The obelisk is the major symbol for this worship, which is why you see obelisks everywhere associated with Freemasonry! It is time to stop being deceived, don't you think?!

Listen to Albert Pike speak of the obelisk: "Hence the significancy of the phallus, or of its inoffensive substitute, the obelisk, rising as an emblem of the resurrection by the tomb of buried Deity …" [Morals and Dogma, p. 393] Now, you know why you see so many obelisks atop the graves of Freemasons, for it is "an emblem of the resurrection of buried Deity"; the Invisible Mason believes he is becoming a god throughout his life, so the obelisk at his grave is simply the visible manifestation of that belief.

The obelisk was originally created by the Egyptian Mysteries of the Pharaohs, and is spoken of in the Bible. Listen: "… King Jehu said to the guards and to the officers, 'Go in and slay them; let none escape'. And they smote them with the sword; and the guards before the king threw their bodies out, and went into the inner dwelling of the house of Baal. They brought out the obelisks of the house of Baal and burned them." [2 Kings 10:26, Amplified Bible]

God Almighty ordered the Satanic obelisks burned, but only after He ordered King Jehu to slaughter the worshippers of the obelisk, also known as Baal worshippers. Thus, the Invisible Freemasonry is devoted to the obelisk worship so forbidden by God as to be worthy of the Death Penalty. Keep this in mind the next time you contemplate the Washington Monument!

Finally, Serpent Worship takes us directly into Hell itself, for Satan stands directly behind this form of worship. This is the Invisible Fraternity of Freemasonry, and I bet you never knew it existed, did you?



Now that you know all this, I encourage you to read The Cutting Edge articles, realizing that they deal with the invisible inner organization. Remember this: we are not participating in a debating society, nor am I trying to win you over to my side. Your precious eternal soul is at stake here; you are participating in the most evil, deceptive organization in the world. Your very participation in the Visible Fraternity gives all demons the legal right to afflict you, to cause you great distress and grief, even though you are totally ignorant of the Inner Fraternity.

freeman
01-20-2005, 10:32 PM
Thanks, 55132. I have read that article previously.
That about covers it, doesn't it?

Yeoshua
01-21-2005, 05:48 AM
55132 Provides a rambling essay there, cut and pasted I'm sure, from an intelligent website dedicated to the deflective paranoias intended to provoke the very hatred and secularisation that many of you bleat on to be trying to prevent. Anyway, I digress........

Diamond, hearty greetings.

I agree with you diamond that many of the more vocal opposers here and many similar sites, are looking for scapegoats, and seem to have found masonry a suitable candidate.

David Icke started the whole damn thing anyway.

For many of you, I would suggest having a look at Jon Ronson's work.
www.jonronson.com

Of David Icke, of The Bilderbergers, of Bohemian Grove.

We're getting a lot of references in these forums, citing various religious texts etc. None more so than the bible, a book where very little of the original script remains.
No, it's a work of fiction compiled in Rome and censored in the Vatican. Yet this is provided as proof that Freemasonry is evil.

Indeed many people follow an autobiographical work, entitled Mein Kampf, and look what type of people they are. Not very pleasant to say the least.

If you believe that the world is controlled by a shadowy elite, if you belive the media is controlled by a shadowy elite, if you believe that even your very thoughts and actions can be controlled by a shadowy elite......why are you jumping on the first sacrificial lamb that they offer you to slaughter? IE: Freemasons

If judges, police, ministers etc are Freemason, it would be an ideal way to let the true minions slaughter them blindly, leaving those key offices free for the true puppetmasters.

Then again IT'S BULLSHIT!

Yeoshua
01-21-2005, 06:03 AM
marypopinz wrote:

Come to Bridgewater Nova Scotia and you will understand exactly everything I am saying. You can see it with your own eyes. Read the Bridgewater Bulletin online at tallships.


It looks absoulutely idylic there Mary, I can't find the brainwashy Bridgewater link though, but it certainly looks like a lovely community.

I've often thought Nova Scotia to be a beautiful place, I have friends in Fairbanks Alaska, and thought their home was beautiful, albeit too damn cold in winter.

In fact an album has just popped into my mind "Ultramarine - Nova Scotia" with the song lyric in it "we are observing your earth".....

Superb album, I rank it up there with The Grid, The Future Sound of London, Moodswings, Orbital, Spooky and Fluke.

marypopinz
01-21-2005, 06:42 AM
Yoshi,

I bet you'd fit right in.

Idyllic? An A++ O.K. place for satansim...


551 masons = minions some know, some don't
Well said.

Mary XXX

55132
01-21-2005, 08:17 AM
Masons have nearly predictable means and methods, often less than savory. Whether it's because they're pushing their ideas:

* In order to sell books.
* Rampant paranoia or hate.
* Their altered belief system (they think it will get them standing before the "Great White Throne" of the "Great Architect of the Universe" in the "Great White Lodge of Freemasonry" of Sirius, which they believe they will go to when they die if their masonic "work" has not been "slip-shod").
* Their In-Group World View has been so much altered that for practical purposes of debate they have diminished capacity, i.e. they have become insane.

Masons use many different tactics to support their position. To further their goals, they'll use books published by 'vanity' publishers who may be Masonic as well. They will claim that "Pro" writings about Masons or Masonry cannot be published by 'legitimate' publishers because they're all "Anti"-Masonically-controlled. (In reality, it's because their tracts fail to meet the 'standards' of research required by traditional publishers - but often Masonic Propaganda and Dissembling Specialists fails to let truth enter the discussion). In addition, there are "Open Houses" and "Parades" held in the United States each year gathering a small group of Masons. Web pages, sometimes thinly disguised as information about "Difficult Questions about Freemasonry", and postings to various online venues add to their constant stream of misinformation.

we talk about those who're visible in their Masonic activities (i.e., not hiding behind some on-line identity which changes frequently). We also provide a review of some internal inconsistencies in their arguments and offer some of our thoughts on responding to 'Masonic Disinformation Propagandists'.

The repertoire of techniques is varied but most involve simple deceit. Common tactics are listed below.

Change the Subject Guilt by Association
Using Different Standards If You Were ...
Refuse to Answer Outright Lies
Oft-Repeated Falsehoods Quibble over Semantics
Faulty Logic Assumptive Positions
Prove It! Straw Man
Behave More Like a Christian or a Non "Stupid Athiest"

Change the Subject: In our daily lives, we generally experience a fairly straight path when we discuss things with others. We're not experienced with those who would deliberately mislead or misdirect. Thus, when this tactic of deceit is used, Non -Masons are caught off-guard. Assuming that the person with whom they're dealing has the same degree of honesty and integrity as themselves, it's a surprise to find that they're being led around in circles.

Guilt by Association: Those defending Masons and Masonry will point out human foibles or errors an individual critic of Masonry may have made as if somehow once a man becomes a "Anti" (as masons deceptively and derisively term those who question Masonic Disinformation tactics) , he loses all right to individual foibles . Because one person does a wrong, the argument goes, "Anti"-Masons are all guilty of it. What those Masonic Dissemblers fail to acknowledge is that there were also those with whom they have been associated in the past engaged in similar wrongs.

Using Different Standards: Masons will use any convenient argument to support their position. Despite the passage of decades (or even centuries), they'll readily apply 1850s or 1770s standards to those in the 1990s! Yes George Washington owned slaves and Albert Pike and Nathan Forest were in the KKK, but then so did everybody else ? Then obviously - so the argument goes - he was a very good Mason! It's convenient to use the political correctness of today to condemn critics of Masonry by branding them "Haters" as practiced professional dissemblers. Don't fall for this sometimes overlooked ploy.

"If You Were....": This presumptive position often taken creates an untenable position - which is exactly the way the Masonic Disinformation Propagandist wishes it. "If you were to hit your wife...." is not far from the question "When did you stop beating your wife?". Such innuendo should be recognized for what it is.

Refuse To Answer: In an attempt to understand the motives of "hatred", the Masonic supporter will often ask, "Why do you feel this way?" or "What religion do you belong to?", or "You're a Stupid Athiest aren't you?" hoping that the answers will somehow provide enlightenment into the rationale for the position the "Anti"-Mason is taking. As might be expected, those Masons who criticize those who want to 'tear down the walls of secrecy' they see in Masonry are often the most secretive themselves. Certainly, there's the exception who will even boast about certain parts of their lives, almost inviting the onlooker to become involved. In reality, though, they've done nothing more than to set a trap which they'll later use against others. "Why I even had some "Anti"-Mason show up at my door the other night. He had tracked me down and...."

Outright Lies: In our section on the categories of Masonic disinformation and propagansa activity, we identify several outright lies. This, however, does not stop them from being spread again and again.

Oft-Repeated Falsehoods: Sometimes when a charge is made, it's difficult to determine whether it's true or not. "Not all of the police who're 'on the take' in London are Masons." is an example seen recently. Of course, this presumes that the one making the statement knows not only the Masonic membership status of every London police officer but also all of those who engage in illegal activities. It should be clear to even the most cursory observer how foolish this is - but to those who use this tactic, it makes perfect sense. Further, perpetuation of such foolishness will surely occur at some later time ("I read somewhere that all of the critics of Freemasonry....").

Quibbling Over Semantics: This is a ploy of some who have engaged in these debates for a long period of time. One Masonic Disinformation Specialist from Maine, USA has frequently argued that he's not an "Anti" Mason Critic but rather "Anti" Mason Critical !!! and furthers this by saying that he specifically opposes the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry. When called an Masonic Propagandist and Disinformation Specialist , he'll protest loudly. In reality it's merely a technique he uses in order to give him further opportunity to expound his hatred (and also encourage the Non-Mason (who Masons derisively refer to as the "Profane" and "Cowans") to think that if only the question of language could be resolved, this person would change his position).

Faulty Logic: We see it often in the arguments which start with the wrong premise. For example: "All eggs are white. This round object is white and has all the properties of an egg. Therefore, this must be an egg." Wrong. You've forgotten (or perhaps don't know) that eggs come in brown also. It is an easy trap to fall into.

Assumptive Positions: One of the most common tactics used against those who critize Masonic Propagada and Disinformation Specialists is designed to provoke a response which ignores the false premise. "If a "Cowan" did (thus and so), what would you do?" Of course, any time a "Profane" violates a law, rule, or trust, we are all the lesser for it - and, being human, that sometimes happens. This argument, however, often makes wild and fanciful suppositions in order to provoke the reader/listener into drawing the conclusion that such things did/do indeed happen - and perhaps regularly.

"Prove It!": The reality is that negatives can rarely be proven but detractors ignore this, always looking for some other avenue to exploit. "Post all of the degree work right here and we'll see what it says...." goes a common challenge. Of course, regardless of what was posted, the Masonic Disinformation Specialist will find some fault, even if it's a spelling error - and then will proceed to make some particular issue out of that. ("See? Those stupid Cowans. They can't even spell!")

Straw Man: One very common tactic used by Masonic Disinformation and Propaganda Specialists is to put forth a 'Straw Man': one who claims to have 'seen the darkness' and now can explain to the world from the 'inside perspective' the many supposed problems with those who criticize Masons and Masonry. Most of these are readily seen as a total fraud (the supposed Mason who's now a 'minister' but is apparently too embarrassed to reveal his denominational affiliation or the person who claims to be a 'high ranking Church Official' who'll reveal all). To the unknowing, however, these pretenders are difficult to discern and can be very persuasive.

Behave More Like a Christian or a Non "Stupid Athiest": We've always found it ironic that those who believe Masonry to be so very right would use this argument. It seems, though, that whenever a Non-Mason has been goaded enough and lashes out at his tormentor, you frequently see the retort "That's not very Christian Behavior is it?", or "You're a Stupid Athiest aren't you?". Strange that in one breath they want us to abandon Christianity or our right not to "believe" but in the next, they remind us of the standards we set for ourselves and encourage us to act in accordance with them. Masonic Disinformation and Dissembling is pretty strange....

It's frustrating. A person who tries to follow the tenets of tolerance and truth assumes the best about his accuser and will believe that a clear presentation of facts will be sufficient to explain things. As you'll see as you question Masonry, however, not everything is what it seems - and if you're willing not to believe the Masonic rhetoric without proof from them, we trust that you'll find the evidence we provide - even more convincing.

Good luck and don't give up. Remember trained, experienced, Masonic disinformation, propaganda, dissembling, and hate specialists are clever. Be on your "due guard".

Yeoshua
01-21-2005, 08:30 AM
55132 You've proved yet again that you're shit-hot with the old cut and paste keys - well done, have a gold star!

http://www.masonicinfo.com/tactics.htm

But like I say, it's dissemination of disinformation that perpetuates the myth and sells it's bullshit to the likes of you

'nuff said.

55132
01-21-2005, 08:37 AM
NO Yeoshua, I thank you for proving the point I have exposed.

55132

marypopinz
01-21-2005, 02:53 PM
point proven...i agree

freeman
01-21-2005, 08:42 PM
Oh yeah, proven and then some -- but note how Masonic apologists never concecde, just as you describe.
Nor do they ever confront the most damaging accusations -- because they can't.

redrat11
02-05-2007, 01:02 PM
Yeoshua wrote:
As a new member and poster, I thought I wouldn't mess about, I'm going to get straight on with it.

I believe, probably more than most of you.

However, I challenge any one of you to come up with solid facts - Not based on speculation and conjecture, why Freemasonry is allegedly evil.

If the globalist masters pertain to be Freemasons, they certainly aren't recognised by real Freemasons (United Grand Lodge of England).

You are all pointing a finger at Freemasons as the architects and engineers of the NWO, provide me with proof, and I will provide you proof that you are wrong.

I am a Master Mason and proud. I am poor, honest and of good repute in my community. I swore an oath on the Bible and I believe in God.

I look forward to continuing to post here, and healthy, good discussion, I will never offend and respect your opinions. May I request the same courtesy?

Interesting... :-o

ColdSheenow
04-15-2007, 05:45 PM
shadowman wrote:

Yeoshua wrote:
One of the pre requisites to join Masonry is the belief in 'A Higher Being', so it does require a monotheistic belief.

It is open to all faiths.

Not to offend any of the faiths within the lodge, the God is called Great Architect of The Universe (GATOU).

Simply because I swore my oath in a predominatly Christian lodge, I swore it over the Bible, but in other contries, provinces or regions you swear over the appropriate book (Volume of Sacred Law VSL) so the Torah, Koran etc.....

Hope this helps.

Yours

Aye

Yeoshua. I thought the reason for swearing upon the bible, or other religious/doctrine of holy word is because this is when they give their "word" of rejecting and distancing themselves from what they onced believed. So when you say predominately Christian, Jewish, etc., what you are really saying is only that these people come from these religious/faith backgrounds. Not a freemason myself, I cannot say for sure on anything. I feel what the freemasons don't want us to know, they don't tell. As far as something I read here about secret handshakes, etc., SAME THING: do you think someone won't suggest a change in signals, being that everyone know's them? Or other secrets.



ShaDOwMaN/ShadWiGWow Ikee DA D E V I L E D H A M!

cold
04-15-2007, 05:52 PM
Your ham is already deviled and so are your insides. You are too young to know yet, but give it time. In due course you will begin to feel it, but your silliness will supersede for a while.

Enjoy,
D E V I L I N A L L

ColdSheenow
04-15-2007, 06:43 PM
cold wrote:
Your ham is already deviled and so are your insides. You are too young to know yet, but give it time. In due course you will begin to feel it, but your silliness will supersede for a while.

Enjoy,
D E V I L I N A L L


U R KnOT Da D E V I L, U R A ImPOsTEr FRumM BeLLvIeW HosPiTaL.

04-15-2007, 08:06 PM
Dr Makow, figure it out, your site has been usurped, wouldn't it be a whole hell of a lot nicer, if people came here to post the most important info of the day.
Bring this forum back to investigating.

Hey SeC, would appreciate you posting the latest weird shit happening around the world.

I was a reader..,
not that I agreed all the time, but I did appreciate your searching abilities.
Formally, TorchLitHill.
Strangely I kept the number 999, even after posting a shitload of post, its still there to examine.
Not exactly sure what it means, but I'm looking for ANSWERS, and thats all she might care to write.
Evidently??

ColdSheenow
04-15-2007, 08:49 PM
I m KiNG DuH InNERneT, MaKOw musT ObeY. AnnD dA D E V I L E D H A M MUss ObAy.

04-16-2007, 12:56 AM
Do you actually contemplate, or is this your whole world, trying to disrupt others thoughts, don't be afraid unless you look into a mirror.
I find you without any merit, You are without a way to get out of yourself.
You should, become aware, but , I think it might be to late.

Inquisitor
04-21-2007, 09:30 PM
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