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07-11-2005, 08:55 AM
I mentioned coordinated effort in another thread that kind of pulled me off topic cause it was repeating and leading to other information.

So, I've started this thread, if you don't mind, for me to dump my mind in order to try and piece together what it is that I'm gathering.

We all know that neither NORAD or our military responded to the attacks on America on 911.

They have reported that due to transponders being turned off, they couldn't track the altitude of the jets.

They have radar.

NORAD is called upon many times during the year when jets have strayed off course, but not on 911.

They were complicit.

It was said that they would be on some kind of training exercise in the area, leaving the skies wide open.

Yeah.

Forget about the fact that America is under a terrorist attack.

Just continue with your training exercises.

In order to affect a STANDDOWN all branches of military (NORAD) and government had to be involved.

07-11-2005, 09:27 AM
We all agree I'm sure that they are guilty. Another reason their story stinks is the fact that when they decided to turn their transponders off, and head off coarse, how do you wonder they made such precise routes, because the fact is , planes need to be directed by ground control, you cant look out the window and see you coordinants.

Dreak
07-11-2005, 09:52 AM
Another reason their story stinks is the fact that when they decided to turn their transponders off, and head off coarse, how do you wonder they made such precise routes, because the fact is , planes need to be directed by ground control, you cant look out the window and see you coordinants.

That theory is weak due to the fact there are such things as hand held GPS.

Once your close enough to see N.Y. I think you dont really need anything to target something as large as the twin towers.

Pentagon .. same thing..

Other crashed out in the boonies..who knows ?

Peace Dreak

07-11-2005, 10:14 AM
from what I understand they work like the phones, they wouldn't be able to use them in the cockpit, too much electrical interference, plus magnetic distortion, plus, there not intended for fast moving vehicles, atleast thats what I thought,frankly I believe that the call from barbara olsen, just enabled her to be the head of one of the shadow governments propaganda offices, youve got to wonder if shes got a sign on her desk that ask , "CAN YOU HERE ME NOW"

Dreak
07-11-2005, 10:22 AM
All you need is one point of reference..If you know were your location is ( lets say before they shut down all comms to ground control ) and you have a watch..then you can determine your location anytime after that.

Its simple navigation m8.

Like I said..all they have to do it be able to SEE NY and then its fly bye sight after that.

"CAN YOU HERE ME NOW"

LOL..that made me laugh..really Im still smiling..good to see some sense of humor still alive :-D

peace Dreak

07-11-2005, 10:32 AM
These guys were camel jockeys, not math wizards, how long do you think it would take for a math genius to figure this calculation, considering that their transponders were turned off before it reached the cleveland area, made atleast a couple of different manuevers, then lined up exactly with the whitehouse, the governments own contention that it was on a direct course to it?
Besides I dont think they can work on a jet.

Dreak
07-11-2005, 10:42 AM
These guys were camel jockeys, not math wizards, how long do you think it would take for a math genius to figure this calculation

Obviously you have never sailed b4 ?

Its quite simple..you dont need to be a math genius to figure out were you are and from that point where you want to go ( no matter what speed your going )

Im at point A. I know to get to point B. takes a certain amount of time at a certain amount of speed ( I allready know direction because I know were I am and know were I want to go)

When I was 19 I could hop on a plane and As soon as we got to cruising speed..and the Captain told me my coordinates..I could tell the Cap how long in one direction he should go b4 he turned to another direction..then how long at what speed he should go b4 we got to our destination.

Its VERY simple as im sure anyone with any experience could tell you Navigation is simple arithmatic..not Quadradic formulas..not higher Algebreic formulas.. simple devide and multiply..

You can do that right Torch ?

Peace Dreak

PS no disrespect m8

07-11-2005, 12:36 PM
NORAD consists of American and Canadian forces; so was our sister country complicit in the "coordinated effort?"

07-11-2005, 01:00 PM
There had to be some who were in on it!
Maybe someone should file a FOIA in Canada, to get the radar screen returns on 9/11 ?, or someone in Canada needs to find someone who works as an air traffic controller, and was on duty that day, or find out what bars they might hang out at, and do a little recon work, although being very carefull, youve got to wonder if the bars are not surveiled electronicly, even still.

07-11-2005, 04:55 PM
Dreak wrote:
All you need is one point of reference..If you know were your location is ( lets say before they shut down all comms to ground control ) and you have a watch..then you can determine your location anytime after that.

Its simple navigation m8.

Like I said..all they have to do it be able to SEE NY and then its fly bye sight after that.

"CAN YOU HERE ME NOW"

LOL..that made me laugh..really Im still smiling..good to see some sense of humor still alive :-D

peace Dreak

There was a sense of humor until you arrived.

07-11-2005, 04:57 PM
Torchlithill wrote:
There had to be some who were in on it!
Maybe someone should file a FOIA in Canada, to get the radar screen returns on 9/11 ?, or someone in Canada needs to find someone who works as an air traffic controller, and was on duty that day, or find out what bars they might hang out at, and do a little recon work, although being very carefull, youve got to wonder if the bars are not surveiled electronicly, even still.

Oh, I'm on it!

Just call me 99!

I'm going to find an air traffic controller and take him to a bar, get him drunk and hopefully he'll spill the beans.

07-11-2005, 08:38 PM
ALL FOUR JETS HAD TO BURN TO ASHES!!

Why?

Because there weren't any passengers on the jets, except, perhaps on Flight 93 that was most probably shot down.

Pentagon jet still unexplained.

Any bodies of passengers recovered?

This is very crucial question.

Flight 93 off course deliberately?

Could be to show attempt by military to intercept.

Cargo planes into Towers?

Remote controlled from the ground!!

igwt
07-11-2005, 11:14 PM
Interesting site re what hit the Pentagon

www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon121.swf

Dreak
07-12-2005, 01:26 PM
igwt..

Ive seen that "production" that you linked b4..

couple questions..

1. Where did the 757 go then ? did it never take off ? are all the other flight controllers that say it was in transit liers ?

2. what about all the "first" reports of people saying they saw a plane go down ? do these peeps not know the difference between a missle and a 757 plane ?

3. how do you describe the damage done on the pentigon. When you think about a missle that could do as much damage that was actually inflicted .. the payload of such a missle would carry SOO much more damage on impact then a "moderate" sized plane ( its not a 747..not a 777 .. it was a 757..average size plane mate )we have all seen mid sized missles hit Iraq eh ? KABOOM there would be much more damage then what was described ( IMO that production did a good job at gettin hit counts on there web site )

4. allready 3 other planes ( oh no..2 other planes actually hit at that moment ) struck targets in US..you think the US would just..like..launch a missle without a warhead to the pentigon ?? to what extent ? make things worse ? to make it more dramatical..please man..think with your head ..not with your mouse !

07-12-2005, 01:34 PM
Since I think the Pentagon hit is still a mystery, I should change the title above, "All four jets had to burn to ashes," to "All three jets and unexplained flying object" had to burn to ashes" because there could be no risk of recovering any passenger bodies!

07-12-2005, 02:01 PM
Well one thing i'VE GOT A PICTURE OF AN fbi GUY STANDING IN FRONT OF AN ENGINE IN THE STRRETS OF NEW YORK, BELIEVE ME THIS THING was no 757 engine, and if you look at the photos of the wreckage of 93, theres one big problem, its a hole with no plane in or around it.
sorry for the caps, but to lazy to change them all.

Dreak
07-12-2005, 02:25 PM
I wasnt talking about NY..you were talking about the pentigon..and your link.

how does NY pics do anyting for your theory of the pentigon crash ?

PS. I dont doubt anything you are saying is not real..I am just asking for a little more then your or anyones "links" on a production that will change any minds out there..a video doesnt do the trick for me, they all could be at this point altered..

07-12-2005, 03:47 PM
It's a simple question?

Were there any passenger bodies discovered on the two tower jets, the pentagon jet or the Pennsylvania jet?

Were there any body parts that were identified. What about Olsen?

Simple question.

If we get an answer to that, we can go from there.

igwt
07-12-2005, 07:01 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
It's a simple question?

Were there any passenger bodies discovered on the two tower jets, the pentagon jet or the Pennsylvania jet?

Were there any body parts that were identified. What about Olsen?

Simple question.

If we get an answer to that, we can go from there.

Interestingly enough, every one (American) on all alledged hijacked aircraft have never reappeared.

Did see on internet after 911, a story showing photos of certain members of alledged hijackers STILL ALIVE saying their identities were stolen?

That leaves the question, Who hijacked the aircraft?

Eye witnesses to the events at the Pentagon, that happened to be driving past said they saw the airliner fly past the Pentagon building, and another flying object described as sounding like a missle hitting the Pentagon directly???

Witnesses a a facility near the Pentagon said that they saw via CCTV, replayed the event and were shocked at what they saw...the impression from what they saw scared them that much they refused to say what they say...however it seemed different to the official story given out. Co-incidentally, the same eye witnesses stated that within minues of the Pentagon event, official agents arrived and confiscated all CCTV footage.

07-12-2005, 07:28 PM
I'm going to have to hire a Private EYE.

I NEED to know.

This is imperative.

This is very important.

WERE ANY BODIES IDENTIFIED OR DID EVERYTHING BURN TO ASHES?

THIS IS CRUCIAL.

I'll research it myself, but that would be somewhat of a missing link for me inasmuch as I KNOW THAT EVERYTHING HAD TO BURN TO ASHES because there weren't any bodies on the planes.

This is where I have a problem, too.

The jets that hit the towers flew at top speed, hit their targets with precision (I remember those words)...hit their targets with precision, remote controlled.

Check out the video footage.

The jets did not waiver for a second.

I find this interesting.

Flying full throttle over the streets of New York.

Man, these guys certainly were skilled after training at that tiny little flight school in Florida.

But, there's something about NORAD.

Conducting exercises in the area?

Somehow, someway, they guided the jets.

These jets could have landed at a very secure military complex and the passengers, well, who knows.

igwt
07-12-2005, 07:56 PM
This is a link to a file showing CNN live at the Pentagon on 911. Shane McIntyre states he cannot see any evidence of a plane hitting the building.

http://www.freedomfiles.org/war/Cnn%5B1%5D.Pentagon.Jamie.Mcintyre.swf

truebeliever
07-12-2005, 08:12 PM
There is NO mystery to the Pentagon crash.

Based purely on the well known photo showing the Pentagon wall before it collapsed...assuming it is authentic...a medium sized passenger aircraft weighing 70 tons did not hit it.

Simple.

I was not there. The photo and the ridiculous eye witness accounts is all you can go on.

Go here for Dave McGowans debunking of the many Rivero claims...
http://davesweb.cnchost.com/nwsltr68c.html

That famous photo shows a hole...but we would expect at least 2 more where the engines hit (the densest part of the aircraft) and what about a disfigured hole from the dense wing root assemblies?

We have a single hole punching it's way through 5 rings of the Pentagon. If its one engine, where is the other hole? Even if it did'nt manage to punch through all 5 we would see at least 1 or 2 of the rings punctured by the other engine. Where is the other hole made by a dense aircraft engine hitting the masonary wall of the Pentagon at 400k?

That hole looks suspiciously like the hole produced by the nosecap of a ALCM...made of DU...designed to allow penetration of an object to allow a warhead to explode inside. In fact there were reports of a "nose cap" being found inside. Does anyone believe the radar dome on the front of a 757 could remain intact through 5 rings?

This is simple logic.

Witnesses sitting 20-30ft away watching a 70+ton object travelling at 400k+ go overhead? Are you serious? They would be dead. Simple.

Go to the Indy 500...those cars are moving at 180mph...now imagine a 70-80 ton object moving at 3 times that speed over your head...get the picture?

It was most likely a ALCM done up to look "similar" to a twin engined airliner. They speak of doing up a drone to look like passenger aircraft in the Northwoods document.

Adolph Hitler..."the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it".

I started looking into the Pentagon crash midway through 2002...i had heard people speak of NO airliner hitting it and had rubbed them off as getting taken in by a distraction. After all...how could they get away with it?..."the bigger the lie, the more people will believe it".

The application of some simple logic combined with the available evidence shows a 757 did not hit the Pentagon.

The greatest mystery we face is how to convince our neighbours that powerful and rich individuals with the power of the state apparatus behind them, might want to lie and cheat and kill and maim to remain rich and powerful? And that it is in our neighbours best interests to switch off "Desperate Housewives" and spend some energy seeking out the truth.

That to me is the greatest mystery. Convincing a confirmed sheeple that their very lives and that of their loved ones depends on them waking up.

07-12-2005, 08:51 PM
Okay, I get ya TB.

No way a plane could fly that low without injuring those on the ground.

So, the witnesses may very well be supplying disinformation.

If that's the case, it really helps to clear up a mass amount of confusion I was running into trying to determine why that would have occurred.

Mistake??? On purpose? If on purpose, why?

So now I'll ask you this.

Are we still going on the premise that four jets were hijacked?

I'm not talking about what actually hit the buildings.

We know a jet crashed in PA. Or do we? Were there any parts recovered?

How many jets do you believe were hijacked?

truebeliever
07-12-2005, 09:13 PM
Mistake??? On purpose? If on purpose, why?

So now I'll ask you this.

Are we still going on the premise that four jets were hijacked?

Would'nt have a clue.

But I do know this. The effect of a commonly experience traumatic event produces brain chemicals that promote "bonding" with others. This is an instinctive response to the "naturally" dangerous world we used to inhabit.

People will unconsciously align their version of events with the most commonly held view...especially those a little weak minded. That is why getting INDEPENDANT people on the ground IMMEDIATELY after the event is so important to interview witnesses before the main stream propaganda machine commences telling people what they saw.

That is something the alternative media and people in general need to organise..."Flying Squads" of people around the planet who can get to a scene as soon as possible to get the INITIAL response from witnesses.

The STATE organised this little operation. They have massive resources at their disposal.

White is black, war is peace. They know the human mammals mind inside out.

As long as people are essentially child like and look to authority and the "collective" for their world view...we are in trouble.

Like a positive feedback mechanism, the desire to remain innocent and in denial of the many elephants in the living room produces greater and greater calamities on the sheep like masses...until finally, we get the just and rightous system of governence we deserve.

At the moment...this is the system we deserve.

07-13-2005, 08:10 AM
TB said,

"At the moment...this is the system we deserve."


I BEG TO DIFFER! OKAY, I'M DONE BEGGING!


Well, I'll be happy to be a part of one of the squads. Hmmmm, whom shall we ask to finance our independent media organization???

Draw a blank there!!!

---------------------------------------------

So, we are basically operating on this premise.

Something hit the two towers.

Something hit the Pentagon.

Something crashed and burned in Pennsylvania or was shot down.

Absolutely right about people believing THEIR eye witness accounts and THEM putting their people on the ground to give the FIRST IMPRESSION that they want to the world to hear and then adopt.

PARROTING is what I call it.

Any independent thinkers left?

07-13-2005, 12:46 PM
Sunday, 23 September, 2001, 12:30 GMT 13:30 UK
Hijack 'suspects' alive and well


Waleed Al Shehri left the US a year ago, he says

Another of the men named by the FBI as a hijacker in the suicide attacks on Washington and New York has turned up alive and well.

The identities of four of the 19 suspects accused of having carried out the attacks are now in doubt.

Saudi Arabian pilot Waleed Al Shehri was one of five men that the FBI said had deliberately crashed American Airlines flight 11 into the World Trade Centre on 11 September.

His photograph was released, and has since appeared in newspapers and on television around the world.

Hijacking suspects
Flight 175: Marwan Al-Shehhi, Fayez Ahmed, Mohald Alshehri, Hamza Alghamdi and Ahmed Alghamdi

Flight 11: Waleed M Alshehri, Wail Alshehri, Mohamed Atta, Abdulaziz Alomari and Satam Al Suqami

Flight 77: Khalid Al-Midhar, Majed Moqed, Nawaq Alhamzi, Salem Alhamzi and Hani Hanjour

Flight 93: Ahmed Alhaznawi, Ahmed Alnami, Ziad Jarrahi and Saeed Alghamdi

Now he is protesting his innocence from Casablanca, Morocco.

He told journalists there that he had nothing to do with the attacks on New York and Washington, and had been in Morocco when they happened. He has contacted both the Saudi and American authorities, according to Saudi press reports.

He acknowledges that he attended flight training school at Daytona Beach in the United States, and is indeed the same Waleed Al Shehri to whom the FBI has been referring.

But, he says, he left the United States in September last year, became a pilot with Saudi Arabian airlines and is currently on a further training course in Morocco.

Mistaken identity

Abdulaziz Al Omari, another of the Flight 11 hijack suspects, has also been quoted in Arab news reports.

Abdelaziz Al Omari 'lost his passport in Denver'
He says he is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and that he lost his passport while studying in Denver.

Another man with exactly the same name surfaced on the pages of the English-language Arab News.

The second Abdulaziz Al Omari is a pilot for Saudi Arabian Airlines, the report says.

Meanwhile, Asharq Al Awsat newspaper, a London-based Arabic daily, says it has interviewed Saeed Alghamdi.

Khalid Al-Midhar may also be alive

He was listed by the FBI as a hijacker in the United flight that crashed in Pennsylvania.

And there are suggestions that another suspect, Khalid Al Midhar, may also be alive.

FBI Director Robert Mueller acknowledged on Thursday that the identity of several of the suicide hijackers is in doubt.

07-13-2005, 01:15 PM
GAWD,

I hate when this happens. Must leave this here because it's just knawing at me and I'm not making any progress.

- Heat seeking missiles;

- They guided the aircraft to remote locations;

-------------------------------------------


As far as NORAD, they have moved 200 NORAD personnel to FAA over the past years to operate radar.

As far as NORAD, they did not protect our skies on that fateful day when there were four jets hijacked and off-course.

Did FAA notify them?

If not, why not?

If not, they obviously have eyes to see.

That is their job!

They were complict and had to be in order to affect a STANDDOWN

Don't tell me they rely totally on the FAA to protect us from "imminent threat of danger."

So, Meyers testified that NORAD ordered jets to scramble at 9:03 A.M., but none left the ground until after the Pentagon "missile" hit at 9:40 A. M.

Now, after we knew we were under attack when two jets hit the towers and the controlled detonated explosion occurred, shouldn't NORAD have ordered the Washington area protected?

They have ways of forcing stray jets to land.

They perform this task all through the year, but not on 911.

Who was conducting exercise that day?

I've been informed it wasn't NORAD, as I thought, and that the FAA was involved in some exercises and we're suppose to believe this is why our skies were unprotected?

However, if you search for information, you'll find two versions from NORAD as to the times they sent fighter jets into the skies.

We were under attack when? at 8:45 A.M. and there was no protective cover for Washington at any point during this invasion until 9:40 A.M.

NORAD has remote control capabilities.

They can control an aircraft from the ground.

Heat seeking missile into the Pentagon.

No aircraft debrie.

So, TB, could a heat seeking missile from an air force jet have caused the damage?

Some witnesses say they saw what appeared to be a military aircraft in the area.

07-13-2005, 06:15 PM
Where was flight 93 heading?

Did it purposely miss its' target so that a "military show of power" could be achieved??

Was it a distraction?

You know, reports of another "hijacked" aircraft on the loose helped keep the "terror" alive in all of us waiting to see if and when it might strike.

If it wasn't a distraction, I can't figure out why the hell it missed it's target.

So, I've come to my OWN conclusion that it was a distraction.

I mean, the other two hit the towers with speed, precision and accuracy.

'm not saying they were passenger jets.

The "imaginary" jet that went through the Pentagon and left a small hole, disintegrated into thin air.

No fuselage, nothing.

If a Jet DID NOT HIT THE PENTAGON, where did it go?

On another note.

Since 911, there have been three small aircraft that have made their way near the White House.

WTF?

It's that easy.

The airspace around our country's governmental body is unprotected to the point that any ole' person can fly their small plane into that airspace.

Or, was that a show of "military alert" and readiness since 911 or, the usual freakin' military, NORAD and government incompetance?

nohope187
07-13-2005, 06:56 PM
Wasn't NORAD conducting terrorist strike drills exactly like 911 the morning of? sounds like complicity to me. :-P

07-13-2005, 06:58 PM
I'm thinking about a RED ALERT. If an aircraft enters the restricted airspace around the Washington D.C. area, the military scrambles due to a RED ALERT.

So, if that's the case, the military (Andrew's AFB) didn't scramble when the UFO hit the Pentagon because perhaps a 'heat seeking missile' was fired by a fighter jet and, those in charge at AFB where complicit with the STANDDOWN.

Certainly, NORAD isn't the only protection for the Capitol.

Bright, red, flashing light!!

----------------------------------------------

or, we're going to RED ALERT.

The following from Homeland Security's website:

We are at ORANGE now:


Recommended Activities

All Americans, including those traveling in the transportation systems, should continue to be vigilant, take notice of their surroundings, and report suspicions items or activities to local authorities immediately.

Everybody should establish an emergency preparedness kit as well as a communications plan for themselves and their family, and stay informed about what to do during an emergency situation.

---------------------------------------

These are our recommended activities!! Remember, be vigilant and take note of your surroundings so that when a bomb goes off and your killed, you can write home about it.

P. S. Check out the way they spelled suspicious in the 4th line, second word of 1st paragraph.

nohope187
07-13-2005, 07:07 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
Everybody should establish an emergency preparedness kit as well as a communications plan for themselves and their family, and stay informed about what to do during an emergency situation.
What is it that they say we should get? Plastic blankets and duct tape? what the fuck? :-P

07-13-2005, 07:10 PM
Goodness, I didn't say that. Don't credit me with that dumbass statement. Only Homeland Security could be so ignorant.

Yes, NOHOPE, I'm sure you remember when Tom Ridge advised that we go to Home Depot and purchase several rolls of duct tape.

07-13-2005, 07:14 PM
nohope187 wrote:
Wasn't NORAD conducting terrorist strike drills exactly like 911 the morning of? sounds like complicity to me. :-P

Okay, I've read and re-read this three line sentence and I just don't get it.

nohope187
07-13-2005, 07:14 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
Goodness, I didn't say that. Don't credit me with that dumbass statement. Only Homeland Security could be so ignorant.

Homeland Security not ignorant, but intentionally misleading. :-P