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truebeliever
07-21-2005, 10:27 AM
Forgive my ignorence on NASA photo's but is'nt this pic obviously fake?

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0507/icecrater_marsexpress.jpg

http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap050720.html

http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_science&Number=293805468&page=0&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1&t=0#Post293805468

"" Forgive my ignorence...but is'nt this photo obviously fake?

Look at the obvious sharp detail from the white to the red? The BIG black line?

And if it's protected by a "shadow"...why is'nt it in obvious shade?

Have they "touched" it up for we of the blind?

These things seem self evident...please come up with a theory to put my mind at ease.

What do you think of James Lovelocks assertion that Mars was essentially dead as told by it's atmosphere which is essentially exaust gas?

He also states if there was life it would be everywhere? Not just isolated in small places.""

07-21-2005, 10:40 AM
To me it looks interresting, I say it could be, it can also be frozen carbon dioxide?
I've got another picture that I'll try to find that does look like water, and it doesn't look frozen, its B&W, but does show some clarity.

07-21-2005, 11:18 AM
Sorry, TLH!! Forgive my outburst!! I'm just a cranky conspiracy theorist!!

Anyway, since this thread is discussing whether or not the water on Mars photo is fake, I'm just wondering if you believe in the Moon Landing!!

Dreak
07-21-2005, 12:20 PM
Do you really need to ask TB ? have you had your morning crumpets :P

Yea its fake .. there is no severe pixelation in all of the pic except for the surrounding areas of the pasted water hole.

Who said this is from NASA ?

nomad
07-21-2005, 04:27 PM
BlueAngel wrote:
Sorry, TLH!! Forgive my outburst!! I'm just a cranky conspiracy theorist!!

Anyway, since this thread is discussing whether or not the water on Mars photo is fake, I'm just wondering if you believe in the Moon Landing!!

If the moon landing happened how come NO other

nation has followed the example ?

Answer: they don't have a Hollywood studio.

07-21-2005, 04:43 PM
That's a very good question, NOMAD!!

They are the orchestrators, the conductors of this play and we are their audience.

truebeliever
07-21-2005, 08:22 PM
Found on Liberty Forum which linked to what looks is a NASA site. The link is in the original post. If you follow the other link it will take you to LF where perhps the original poster can elucidate us all.

It is SO badly done i want to think it's been done on purpose.

As for the Moon Landing?

The evidence put up to discount the landing is COMPLETELY insufficient.

Here is a good expose by a guy who ripped the moon landing hoax "evidence" to shreds.

http://iangoddard.net/journal.htm

Ian Goddard was one of the FIRST "conspiracy sites" I ever went to. He got harrassed by the Feds BIG TIME and suffered from them.

I'm not so sure of his other assertions.

I am willing to entertain the hoax for one reason and one reason ONLY...the footage of the Apollo 11 astronaughts at THAT press conference where after a successful moon mission and "hero status" they all look like they've been told the truck is outside ready to take them to Auwshwitz.

A pic speaks a 1000 words.

Dreak
07-22-2005, 10:58 AM
That pic was not from NASA m8...

I looked at even closer..on the rim of the Crater there are doctored pixelation in the "frost line"

OH..and...

The Moon Landing Wasnt a fake.

Ive seen way too much proof that anyone with common sence and a little bit of physics knowledge would agree.

PS. why hasnt anyone else gone to the moon ? welp.. why would anyone spend a billion and the risk of life to goto a place were there really isnt as much scientific signifigence to bother with ?

I would think monies would be better spent in other space exploration/tech then go land on a dust rock again..

D.

SpyVsSpy
07-22-2005, 11:27 AM
The Apollo Hoax
http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html

Dreak
07-22-2005, 11:54 AM
I looked at the web page for some time..

First off..I wont download or play anything that is associated with " Real Player " . anyone should know that..

Second..I allready found holes in that pages theories..I would suggest there copies are doctord,distorted or even created..

believe what you want m8..Ill just wait till the photos come back from our VLT. :)

but..then again they allready said that It could be that we sent robots to put up an American Flag on the moon.. sigh...

D.

truebeliever
07-22-2005, 11:56 AM
Are Apollo Moon Photos Fake?

by Ian Williams Goddard

FOX Television Network recently advanced the claim that NASA's Apollo Moon missions were a hoax largely due to alleged "anomalies" in Apollo photos. [1] David Percy, an Associate of the Royal Photographic Society, told FOX: "Our research suggests that images of the Apollo landings are not a true and accurate record. In our view the Apollo pictures were faked. Many of the images are replete with inconsistencies and anomalies." Are Percy and other Apollo critics correct? Let's examine their claims.

Examination of Apollo-Photo "Anomalies"

Illumination in Shadow: FOX narrator: "On the Moon, the astronaut's only source of light was the Sun. ... Here's an astronaut who descends into the huge shadow cast from the lunar module, yet his entire body is still visible. How is it that he is not shrouded in darkness?" Apollo critic answers: "It's because there's more than one light source, which means they're not on the Moon."

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/shadow02.jpg

Question: why is the astronaut in the shadow illuminated?

Answer: surface reflection of light:

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/shadow03.jpg

Test: surface reflection illuminates toy astronaut in shadow.
In second image, foreground reflection is reduced with black paper.

The side-by-side photos show a test I conducted with a toy lunar module and astronaut placed in its shadow as in the Apollo image above. The two photos show the difference between a reflective gray-paper foreground and a less reflective black-paper foreground. Foreground reflectance from the powerful lamp above was sufficient to illuminate the toy astronaut in the shadow of the toy lunar module. This simple test demonstrates that Apollo astronauts illuminated in shadow are not an "anomaly" but a predictable result of sunlight reflecting off the lunar surface.

FOX narrator: "In this picture the Sun is directly behind the astronaut, his figure should be a silhouette, yet even the smallest characteristics of his suit are recognizable." A photographic expert then says: "He seems like he's standing in the spotlight. I can't explain that." That astronaut is in the first of these three photos:

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/shadow01.jpg

Illumination of Apollo astronaut on left simulates surface reflection on toy.

The toy-astronaut test shows us the difference between a reflective foreground (gray paper) and a less reflective (black paper) foreground. Apart from surface reflection, the only light source was the lamp behind the toy. These tests show that illumination of astronauts in shadow is not an anomaly but a predictable result of surface reflection. In addition to surface reflection, light from the Earth in the sky above the Moon is 68 times brighter than a full Moon seen from the Earth. [2]

Different Shadow Directions

FOX narrator: "On the Moon, the astronaut's only source of light was the Sun. Yet in this photograph from Apollo 14, the shadows are cast in different directions suggesting multiple light sources." Dave Percy: "The shadows cast by the rocks in the foreground should have been east-west like the LEM [lunar module] shadow."

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/shadow04.jpg

Test: slanted surface alters shadow direction on Moon-rock model under
one light. Identical ground slant can be detected in Moon photo on left.

The photo on the right shows one light shining on a clay model of Moon rocks and ground. This test simulates the shadow "anomaly" in the Apollo photo and demonstrates that ground slant -- in addition to light source and viewer position -- is an important factor in shadow direction. The LEM in the background and the magic marker in the foreground serve as shadow controls, showing the direction shadows on non-slanted ground run in the area. The direction of model-rock shadows differs from control, running downhill with the slant of the ground upon which their shadows are cast. (Note: the toy LEM in the background is further from the lamp in weaker light than in the first test, yet the toy astronaut on it is still illuminated in shadow by surface reflection.)

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/shadow06.jpg

Other examples in Apollo photos of shadows following ground slant.
On left shadows run down crater. On right run down Hadley Rille.

Just as the shadows follow the topography of the lunar ground in these two examples, the alleged shadow "anomaly" in the previous Apollo photo is clearly a result of ground slant and therefore is not a genuine anomaly indicating fakery. Apollo critics cite other examples of shadow-direction "anomalies," all of those I've viewed are obviously a result of irregular ground slant.

Identical Backgrounds

FOX Narrator: "These two photos seem to have the same mountain backdrop, yet the lunar module is only visible in one of them. Seemingly impossible since the LEM never moved, and its based remained even after the mission. Some suggest the same artificial backdrop was used when shooting two entirely separate pictures."

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/mountns1.jpg

Examination of Apollo-15 photos clearly proves that the mountains in the background are so large and distant that they can be seen without changing their appearance from myriad points of view with or without the LEM in the foreground. [3] The mountains above are the Apennine Front on the left and Mount Hadley Delta on the right of each photo. [4] The astronauts went up to those mountains and walked on Hadley Delta. How could they walk into a fake backdrop?

See this lunar panorama (scroll to the right) showing Apollo-15 astronaut David Scott at the base of Mount Hadley Delta with the Apennine Front behind him. Here is another view of the Apennine Front from the slope of Hadley Delta. Here is a panorama with the fresh crater in the foreground seen above. Here are some other views of these mountains for various locations: A, B, C, D, E, F, G, H. Those photos show that the known and mapped lunar mountains in question are not a fake backdrop but are real three-dimensional mountains around the astronauts. The lunar mountains in question are also seen in the following 360-degree panoramic view of the Apollo 15 landing site. [5]

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/mountns2.jpg

This panorama, a composite of single photos, shows that the Apennine Front and Hadley Delta can be viewed without the LEM in the foreground, since when the camera views them at 180 degrees (as marked below the panorama), the LEM is behind the camera at 0 degrees, out of the picture frame for that photo. The panorama also gives a sense of how far away the mountains are. Because there is no atmosphere on the Moon, objects do not fade over distance and thus distant mountains can appear very close, as they do in the two photos FOX showed.

The claim that these known and mapped Moon mountains that are viewed from myriad angles in Apollo photos [3] are really a fake backdrop that was accidently used in two staged studio sets on Earth is not a theory but an exercise in silliness. BadAstronomy.com explains the other example FOX presented of an alleged identical background "anomaly." [6]

Crosshair Knockout

FOX narrator: "For reference, crosshairs were permanently etched into the lunar cameras, so they would have to appear on top of every image. But in this photo, a crosshair is behind a part of the lunar rover." David Percy then opines: "This situation is impossible and has to be the result of technical manipulation and doctoring of the image." Clue: in each example FOX showed of an object appearing to be over a crosshair, the obtrusive object was sunlit and bright white, such as these examples:

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/croshair.jpg

Question: why do crosshairs vanish over sunlit white objects?

Answer: strong luminosity can washout thin lines.

http://users.erols.com/igoddard/lensline.jpg

Test: hair across lens is washed out by sunlit white paper.
With no atmosphere on the Moon, sunlight is stronger.

In this test a strand of hair was taped across a camcorder lens, which was then pointed at a sunlit white paper. While my test failed to vanish the hair-line completely, it demonstrates that diffuse solar reflection on a white surface can wash out a thin line. This result is sufficient to render the phenomenon of crosshair vanishing over sunlit white objects not anomalous. Also reflective intensity and thus crosshair-knockout potential would be greater on the Moon with no atmosphere to reduce solar intensity. Click here to see partial and complete crosshair knockout against white clouds in an exoatmospheric photo. [7]

Conclusion

None of the alleged photographic anomalies presented by FOX TV are true anomalies and thus they evidence neither manipulation nor a hoax. In the future Goddard's Journal shall examine alleged physical anomalies said to be evidence that man never set foot on the Moon. In the meantime, other claims from FOX are presented and addressed at the websites linked-to below.

[1] FOX Television Network: Conspiracy Theory: Did We Land on The Moon? February 15, 2001.
[2] Fortean Times: Percy and the Astro-Nots. 1997.
[3] Apollo 15 Digital Picture Library & JSC Digital Image Collection.
[4] NASA Photo ID: AS15-82-11057
[5] Apollo Lunar Surface Journal. Thanks to David Harland, Mike Constantine, and Dave Byrne who assembled the Apollo-15 panoramas and to Ken Glover who helped me update links to them.
[6] BadAstronomy: Fox TV and the Apollo Moon Hoax. 02/12/2001.
[7] Thanks to Michael de Kooter for finding this crosshair-knockout example.
(c) 2001 Ian Williams Goddard
This report was first published on February 26, 2001 and has been updated.

Sites Refuting Hoax Claim

BadAstronomy.com

Comments on FOX

The Great Moon Hoax

NonFaked Moon Landings

Faked Moon Landings?

NASA's Moon Hoax

Sites Promoting Hoax Claim

Dave Percy Analysis

Bill Kaysing Interview

Faked Moon Landings?

http://iangoddard.net/moon01.htm

07-22-2005, 05:46 PM
Don't you think that faking a moon landing would have been too risky???

07-22-2005, 05:47 PM
I could care less if there is water on Mars or not.

I suggest the money would be better spent helping life on the planet Earth.

SpyVsSpy
07-23-2005, 02:18 AM
If one contends that the moon landings are what we have been told, there are some questions besides the ones already mentioned to be considered, for instance, at present there is a time delay in communications between ground control and the space shuttle or the space station, ponderance this my good fellow, how was it possibble that in 69, we had instant communication between ground control and the moon, there is no time seperation, its as if they were in the next building, the only explanation can be, is that it was done on a movie stage on earth, probably Area 51, heres another one to bite on, When the LEM took off from the moons surface, NASA footage clearly shows it blasting off, the problem is, we would have had to leave an astronaut on the surface to take this footage, they didn't have remote cameras that would follow the craft up, like has been shown.

Ahmad
07-23-2005, 02:33 AM
peace,

The moon landing is mentioned in Quran as it fulfills an important prophecy, it is a sign of the approahing of the Judgment day.

Feel free to check this page:

http://www.usn2161.net/moonsplit.html

truebeliever
07-23-2005, 02:34 AM
Dear SPY...

goto ian Goddards site.

The links are all their.

I too was taken in by the fox show.

It has easily been refuted...all claims.

truebeliever
07-23-2005, 02:39 AM
It was indeed a sign from God to mankind that they cannot reach anywhere in the universe without His authorization, no matter how much time or money they spend. The sophisticated system and hundreds of hours of planning couldn't prevent the accident from happening.

[55:33] O you jinns and humans, if
you can penetrate the outer limits
of the heavens and the earth,
go ahead and penetrate.
You cannot penetrate
without authorization.

I'll agree %100 on that.

What nerve! As if the Allmighty would allow us to leave the cradle when we cant even stop killing each other at the command of others.

igwt
07-23-2005, 03:16 AM
It is possible the Americans landed on the moon. If you read about Von Braun the ex-Nasi scientist and his work with the V-2 rocket and after WWII working with/for Nasa, you will suspect that without his contribution to the programme, that it would of been impossible.

Since his death, there have been no more luna landings.

Here is an interesting site about Von Braun.

http://history.msfc.nasa.gov/vonbraun/disney_article.html