PDA

View Full Version : The Norwegians are right!!!!!


zanyzan311
01-21-2005, 01:31 PM
http://cnn.netscape.cnn.com/news/enhancedstory.jsp?maxphotos=3&phototerm=Bush+longhorn+sign&idq=/ff/story/0001%2F20050121%2F1251895792.htm
Read this and explain why John Kerry does the same thing. He aint from texas

nomad
01-21-2005, 01:43 PM
Boy oh Boy Henry is more correct that we know.

Jimbo
01-21-2005, 07:53 PM
Reference "Threads": :-o :-o :-o

Secret Handshakes & The Two Horned Salute
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=515&forum=14

Does anyone know what these Masonic hand gestures and signals are?
http://www.clubconspiracy.com/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=450


Reference "Links":

Signs & Symbols Of The NWO
http://www.exposingsatanism.org/signsymbols.htm

Occult Symbolism: As American as Baseball
http://www.prisonplanet.com/analysis_lavello_051403_occult.html

Symbols of the Occult
http://www.helpingmormons.org/occult_symbols.htm

Colour Symbolism In Freemasonry
http://www.masonicworld.com/education/files/apr02/include/colour_symbolism_in_freemasonry.htm

David Icke's Symbolism Archives
http://www.davidicke.net/symbolism/articles/dec2002/occult.html

Pentagrams of Washington D.C. - 01
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-1.html

Pentagrams of Washington D.C. - 02
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-2.html

Pentagrams of Washington D.C. - 03
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-3.html

Pentagrams of Washington D.C. - 04
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-4.html

Pentagrams of Washington D.C. - 05
http://www.startiming.net/cave/wdc-5.html
8-)

nomad
01-21-2005, 08:23 PM
Holy Cow did anybody else see the entire Bush

family giving the satanic salute repeatedly on

CNN ?

My wife and I could not believe our eyes !

This is for real.

alumbrado
01-21-2005, 08:53 PM
People, be realistic about it!

If Bush, Laura and Jenna did the "horns" sign, how come his father, his mother and the people behind him in those pics aren't doing the same thing?!

If you're expecting Bush doing the Hitlerian salute with the horns gesture, how come nobody behind him or front of him are doing the same thing as he did?

Be realistic. It's the fucking Longhorns sign for the UoT. There's nothing remotely satanic about it. Hell, even Satan himself would be offended by that gesture.

Satan never have horns on his head. He was just once an Angel of Light and he still is.

:roll:

nomad
01-21-2005, 09:19 PM
ok how come Prince Harry and Prince Williams

have been photographed doing it too ?? ...

not to mentiona scores of other celebrities.

alumbrado
01-21-2005, 09:49 PM
nomad wrote:
ok how come Prince Harry and Prince Williams

have been photographed doing it too ?? ...

not to mentiona scores of other celebrities.

Can you put up your hand, with your index and pinkie fingers up, thumb on your other clutched fingers and stick it to no one in particular? It's very easy. Give it a try.

Now see how easy to do that?

"Hook 'em, horns!"

:-D

DarkChilde3D
01-21-2005, 11:05 PM
So, is Bush a steer or a queer?

nomad
01-22-2005, 10:43 AM
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/210105sign5.jpg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/210105devilhand.htm

alumbrado
01-22-2005, 11:35 AM
DarkChilde3D wrote:
So, is Bush a steer or a queer?

More like a steer. Since he's steering the world toward something we all fear to tread on. :-x

alumbrado
01-22-2005, 11:37 AM
nomad wrote:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/images/january2005/210105sign5.jpg

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2005/210105devilhand.htm

A couple of 'em are "I LOVE YOU" sign, a well-known sign gesture of the deaf.

God love you all, with the "I LOVE YOU" sign. :-D

nomad
01-22-2005, 11:42 AM
either that or " Hidden in Plain View "

:-D

nohope187
01-22-2005, 06:31 PM
DC quote: "So is he a steer or a queer?"

I wouldn't be suprised if he really is a queer just using the wife and kids as a cover. :-P

billiard
01-23-2005, 09:58 AM
this is some of the most ridiculous horseshit i have seen here .people trying to find a conspiracy under every rock . satanic sign my ass the man is from texas .anyone here know what a big deal TEXAS football is ? this is paranoia,pure and simple .

nomad
01-23-2005, 11:34 AM
billiard take into context

Bohemian Grove and the Bush males Christian

practices that take place in there.

Ellar
01-23-2005, 03:06 PM
[Anybody from Austin or even all of Texas want to verify this info? The more un-nicely one shouts "NO WAY", the more likely the info is to be true. Refute with facts, not emotion.

Have you spent any time viewing material at www.skolnicksreport.com? It seems not one Bush has sued this person for libel. Or, how about www.stewwebb.com and his accusations about the satanic practices of the Bush Family and their "buddies"? No libel suits here either? Don't you wonder why?]


http://www.savethemales.ca/index.html

About the Texas Longhorn Handsign


Austin

Dear Henry,

This picture is a common sight in Austin night life. [Photo Here]

I've been going to Austin since the 70's, and lived there from 1990 to 2000.

The original U of Texas football team hand sign, was done with fingers folded, except pinky and thumb. After all, the sign was supposed to represent the Texas Longhorn breed of steer, which has distinctive horns that run horizontally from the top of the animal's head.

This sign the Bush family, Clinton, and others are seen making is with the thumb folded into the palm, the pinky and index fingers pointed straight up. The 'mark of the beast'.

The UT sign goes with the saying, 'hook 'em horns'. But in Austin, you can actually greet anyone with this latter hand sign and openly say, 'hail satan'. I am not kidding about this.

Dan

nohope187
01-23-2005, 05:38 PM
Just ask the ones in St. Paul, Minnesota. :-x :-? :pint: :-o :-P :hammer:

Max
01-24-2005, 12:07 PM
alumbrado wrote:

It's the fucking Longhorns sign for the UoT. There's nothing remotely satanic about it.
And you definitely know this without question because?


He was just once an Angel of Light and he still is.
Can you explain this please? Lucifer an "Angle of Light"?

Max
01-24-2005, 12:11 PM
billiard wrote:
satanic sign my ass
And how do you definitely know this without question?

anyone here know what a big deal TEXAS football is ?
Yes. It proves nothing.

alumbrado
01-24-2005, 05:04 PM
Max wrote:

alumbrado wrote:

It's the fucking Longhorns sign for the UoT. There's nothing remotely satanic about it.
And you definitely know this without question because?

You've never been to University of Texas before?


Max wrote:

He was just once an Angel of Light and he still is.
Can you explain this please? Lucifer an "Angle of Light"?

According to the Jewish/biblical folklore-myth, Lucifer (a Romanized name for the Hebraic name of Sammael), the greatest of all the Lord's angels, was the brightest Angel in the heavens, righteous and brilliant in light but very prideful in his own sense of self-realization. He learned that God have planned to create a new being on Earth, a being greater than Lucifer/Sammael and he became jealous of the new being which would become Man. In anger and pride, he rejected God's new creation and rebelled against the Lord, leading a host of his followers in the War in Heaven. The Archangel Michael defeated Lucifer/Sammael and God stripped Lucifer/Sammael of his divinity and casted the first Rebel out of the Heaven and fell to the earth, to the darkness that would become his domain. He became the Prince of the Earth, for God believed that he should remain on Earth forever, trapped with God's newest creation that would become Man. Or the story goes.

Max
01-24-2005, 06:42 PM
alumbrado wrote:
You've never been to University of Texas before?

Yes- I've been to UT many times but that doesn't exclude the hand sign from having a double meaning (if you want to ignore the minor differences between the two). You claim "there's nothing remotely satanic about it" and I'd just like to know how you can be so certain. The way I see it that's not possible- you can't disprove it. To top things off you dish out an insult of "Be realistic" based on an argument you can't fully support.

Of course, there has been a strong case built to show the hand sign is satanic.



According to the Jewish/biblical folklore-myth, Lucifer (a Romanized name for the Hebraic name of Sammael), the greatest of all the Lord's angels, was the brightest Angel in the heavens, righteous and brilliant in light but very prideful in his own sense of self-realization. He learned that God have planned to create a new being on Earth, a being greater than Lucifer/Sammael and he became jealous of the new being which would become Man. In anger and pride, he rejected God's new creation and rebelled against the Lord, leading a host of his followers in the War in Heaven. The Archangel Michael defeated Lucifer/Sammael and God stripped Lucifer/Sammael of his divinity and casted the first Rebel out of the Heaven and fell to the earth, to the darkness that would become his domain. He became the Prince of the Earth, for God believed that he should remain on Earth forever, trapped with God's newest creation that would become Man. Or the story goes.

I am familiar with this (as well as the occult "real" meaning) but I've never meant anyone who refers to Lucifer as an "Angel of Light"- why do you think it is appropriate to say this? Isn't "Prince of Darkness" more fitting?

madkhao
01-24-2005, 08:46 PM
Can someone tell me who invented this two horned salute?

freeman
01-24-2005, 09:39 PM
Can someone tell me who invented this two horned salute?

That's a good question, and I don't have a definite answer, but I would guess it has its origins in occult/freemasonic lore like so many other wellknown handsigns and symbols.

Occult Signs and Symbols (http://mysearch.myway.com/jsp/GGcres.jsp?id=IyJe4dZIzbQJ&su=http%3A//mysearch.myway.com/jsp/GGmain.jsp%3FptnrS%3Dde%26searchfor%3Dtubalcain+pi n%26st%3Dsite&u=http%3A//www.nisbett.com/symbols/peace_sign.htm&searchfor=tubalcain+pin)

Draken
01-25-2005, 03:19 AM
Posted twice by mistake! :pint:

Draken
01-25-2005, 03:19 AM
Wouldn't it be just typical of Satanists to pervert the sign language sign for "I Love You" and use it to covertly show other Satanists they are also in allegiance?

alumbrado, the sign itself or the ease with which you can do it yourself is not the issue; it's what it is USED for that is the issue. Just because I can easily do the sign myself of course doesn't make me or anyone else a Satanist.
BUT if I am in fact a Satanist, then the sign has a TOTALLY different meaning to ME and OTHER Satanists.

Especially showing the sign in public really should make people wonder...or are they so dumbed down that they dismiss even QUESTIONING such a display of suspected allegiance with Satan?

alumbrado
01-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Max wrote:
Of course, there has been a strong case built to show the hand sign is satanic.

It's a fucking gesture, for God's sake! :roll:

What the term, "satan" really mean to you? Wow me, please.


Max wrote:
I am familiar with this (as well as the occult "real" meaning) but I've never meant anyone who refers to Lucifer as an "Angel of Light"- why do you think it is appropriate to say this? Isn't "Prince of Darkness" more fitting?

I just described a folklore myth of Lucifer, basically, for you. Google "Lucifer" and educate yourself. Enjoy. ;-)

Draken, it's just a gesture, nothing more, nothing less. You're just making an issue of a simple hand gesture and turn it into a representation of an evil force that originated from our own darkest corners of human nature.

If anybody gives me the dreaded Finger, that tells me that it does mean something. 8-) ;-)

freeman
01-25-2005, 10:40 PM
If anybody gives me the dreaded Finger, that tells me that it does mean something.

Funny, I've been flashing this gesture at many of my local Masonic enemies recently, and that seems to be exactly how they are interpreting it.
Well, maybe they're just not Texas Longhorn fans...

Max
01-26-2005, 01:12 AM
It's a fucking gesture, for God's sake!
Yes, we've established that itís a gesture. The question is, what does it means? You seem to claim to definitely know the answer to this which is impossible using an argument of simple logic. The gesture can have multiple meanings, you can't possibly claim to know them all. It's not knowable.

What the term, "satan" really mean to you? Wow me, please.
Satan is generally a loose term to identify Lucifer, the entity intent to enslave, rule and destroy the human race thus proving that it is unworthy of existence in the universe. He argued against our creation but lost, he "fell" to Earth and began his work.

I just described a folklore myth of Lucifer
Right, but in your first post in this thread you said "He [Satan] was just once an Angel of Light and he still is." Are you saying you think Satan is an "Angel of Light"? What does that mean to you?

Google "Lucifer" and educate yourself. Enjoy.
As I already said, I have an occult education on the matter.

Draken
01-26-2005, 01:56 AM
alumbrado wrote:
You're just making an issue of a simple hand gesture and turn it into a representation of an evil force that originated from our own darkest corners of human nature.

No, I didn't turn it into a representation of an evil force. I QUESTION wether it might be a representation of an evil force. Big difference, at least for me.
BTW, the so-called "Texas Longhorn's" sign is made with the little finger and the THUMB stretched out, NOT little finger and index finger. So you see, it really isn't about football! Question is: what IS it about?

Our own darkest corners of human nature IS WHERE EVIL RESIDES. God has given us free will to CHOOSE between Good or Evil, BOTH of which we have the potential of WITHIN us.

Hence, I totally agree with you, although I have a feeling you will misunderstand me. ;-)

alumbrado
01-26-2005, 07:40 PM
Max wrote:
Yes, we've established that itís a gesture. The question is, what does it means? You seem to claim to definitely know the answer to this which is impossible using an argument of simple logic. The gesture can have multiple meanings, you can't possibly claim to know them all. It's not knowable.

No, we can't possibly to know everything we claim to say.


Max wrote:
Satan is generally a loose term to identify Lucifer, the entity intent to enslave, rule and destroy the human race thus proving that it is unworthy of existence in the universe. He argued against our creation but lost, he "fell" to Earth and began his work.

You made it to sound like as if Lucifer is Dr. Evil doing nefarious works somewhere on Earth. Paging Austin Powers.... ;-)

alumbrado
01-26-2005, 10:31 PM
Draken wrote:
No, I didn't turn it into a representation of an evil force. I QUESTION wether it might be a representation of an evil force. Big difference, at least for me.
BTW, the so-called "Texas Longhorn's" sign is made with the little finger and the THUMB stretched out, NOT little finger and index finger. So you see, it really isn't about football! Question is: what IS it about?

That's the California's "Hang Loose" sign if I recall correctly the meaning of that gesture. The UofT "horned" gesture isn't just about football, it's the symbolic representation of a Longhorn cow, commonly founded in Texas and the plains.

I don't know why the connotation of a Satanic association with that "horned" gesture was brought up. People of different views tends to make something out of nothing, if you know what I mean? Like seeing a great cloud hovering above and one could imagine anything out of it based on the merest resemblances.


Draken wrote:
Our own darkest corners of human nature IS WHERE EVIL RESIDES. God has given us free will to CHOOSE between Good or Evil, BOTH of which we have the potential of WITHIN us.

Hence, I totally agree with you, although I have a feeling you will misunderstand me. ;-)

Oh, I understand you just fine. We all have different takes on something out of nothing. ;-)

Draken
01-27-2005, 02:02 AM
Ok let's cut to the chase here. We can be discussing hand signs til the cows come home. The issue is not about hand signs.

alumbrado, what are you actually saying? That Bush is not really Evil?
Is he in your opinion NOT doing Satan's work?
Is he NOT a puppet for Evil people with a Luciferian agenda?

Judging by George W. Bush's life; family, upbringing, education, professional life, associations, actions and behaviour he seems to have been groomed and molded from birth to do Evil on this planet.
What difference does it make if his hand sign is innocent?

You should be able to see that the connection we are suggesting isn't really that far-fetched, is it?

Besides, everything politicians of Bush's caliber do in public or in broadcast media is calculated, sanctioned and decided in the smallest detail in advance by the puppet masters. He is a puppet - he does what he's told.

There is a very good reason why he's allowed to behave like a dick publicly. If the puppet masters didn't want him to behave like he does, he wouldn't, believe me.

If Evil like this exists on this planet then we can't afford to dismiss anything unfortunately.
http://impiousdigest.com/lbj/media/cults/current.ram

I have to warn you that this little report is the most shocking thing I've seen - I had to look away for a while because I really didn't want to have those images imprinted on my mind.

Ozziecynic
01-27-2005, 06:14 AM
:-? I wouldnt bother with alumbrado Max and Draken.
I doubt anything you say will make any impression on him/her/it.It Seems this entity can be added to the agent procovateurs list of satanists and masons along with yeoshua now invading this site at leisure. :-?

marypopinz
01-27-2005, 10:59 AM
Draken,

Can you please post that last essay from site last recommended by you on this thread as my computer won't let me access it.

Thanx


Mary XXX

Max
01-27-2005, 12:02 PM
I hear you Ozziecynic. At this point I'm really not so interested in views on the hand gesture- we've established where everyone stands on that- I'm just curious about alumbrado reference to Lucifer as an "Angel of Light"-- which, I believe is how he is referred to from those in the occult. So, perhaps I am incorrect but it would appear that alumbrado, by his own words (and avoidance of the questions) may hold an allegiance to Lucifer. Please don't get me wrong, I'm not out to prove anything I'm just interested to hear what alumbrado has to say for himself.

So alumbrado, what is your view of Lucifer? What positive or negative things do you have to say about him? I'll tell you my view- I think he is sick in the head and is wrong with his views and actions. He is the heart of evil in this world and possibly in the universe. He thinks he is doing the right thing but he is not, nor are his minions. He thinks humans are a bad thing for the universe but he is wrong. Human are good creates, just like we were made to be. Our goodness is the weakness that he is abusing. Ironically, it is Lucifer who needs to learn Gods lesson of truth and love for all living creatures. This is what humans know and believe- this is why his plans have gone against human nature for all times. This is why his work has been discovered and why his efforts will ultimately fail. It's too bad he still insists on playing the game.

As for "Lucifer is Dr. Evil doing nefarious works somewhere on Earth"-- if there is one thing that I have learned it's that I don't know much so I do believe this is possible. Of course, occult members often toss out the bizarre truth and act like it's wacko- its part of the mind control programming to keep the sheep in line. Do I believe that Lucifer is somewhere on Earth? As usual, it doesn't matter what I believe, only the truth matters. There is certainly evidence to support this but I have no direct confirmation that this is accurate but since I recognize that I don't know much I don't discount the possibility of it.

Once again however, you toss out insults ("Paging Austin Powers"). Can we not stick with the issues? Why must you insist on trying to degrade people for some view point?

Whatever the case, it's all aright, I still love you alumbrado-- just note, mind games don't work on me anymore- I am an independent thinker and a free man that can bust threw a world of lies.

madkhao
01-27-2005, 05:23 PM
All this time I thought you were a woman Max.
That's 3 people I've been wrong about now.

nohope187
01-27-2005, 06:14 PM
That's funny, madchou. :-x :-? :pint: :-o 8-) :hammer:

Max
01-27-2005, 06:18 PM
LOL! It's all good madkhao. I guess I should take this as a compliment in that I can break free of gender stereo-types.

alumbrado
01-27-2005, 06:45 PM
For everyone: Draken, Max, even Ozziecynic and perhaps MaryPopinz

I am just a realist. Plain and straightforward.

I have a duty to God's truth in this world and that is finding the actual truth of the Creator's intentions with us on this world. I have some Hermetic understandings of the world.

I have nothing against you all and if you find my infusing of humor in my comments sarcastic or off-handed, my apologies. In this sad state of the world we lives on, I think humor is the only good thing we have to feel good about ourselves and there's nothing wrong with that. It's the only thing to remind us how human we all are.

Some of you are under the impression that I'm into Lucifer or the Luciferian beliefs or whatever that is. The truth is that I have studied quite a bit about the origins of the Devil and have to conclusion that the "Devil" is actually resides in all of us, as Draken pointed out. It is in our own human nature. It's what we do to other people for various reasons. If you've watched those reality-game TV shows, you get the idea of what those people could and can do to other people to get what they wanted and that's just the glimpse of how far people are willing to do, in the manner of devilish/sinful behaviors.

For centuries, mankind have been looking very hard for a strong valid explanation of why we do very bad or horrible things to others, actions that deemed evil. For some, it is so conveniently to blame everything on the Devil as if the Devil is the only scapegoat. Point is, if some would have you believe, the Devil have only "himself" to blame if we bring all of our grievances that he wrought upon us since time began IN PERSON, face to face.

So, where's the Devil/Lucifer residing at? Not that it is a simple thing to do but it is ridiculous for some to hunt down and bring him to justice, as if he's a real person. The Iraqis are getting their chance to see the "devil" in court and be tried for his crimes against humanity. We did the same for most of Hitler's henchmen in Nuremberg after the war. Are we looking at the Devil in President Bush? Or are we looking at the Devil in David Rockefeller or Vladimir Putin or Fidel Castro or somebody high and mighty?

Are you going out and hunt down anybody you believe could be the Devil himself? What gonna you do? Hack up that person you believed possessed or influenced by the Devil and see if the Devil is inside that poor human being you've just killed? What are you trying to prove? Are you going to hunt down anybody who waved that "horned" gesture in front of you for no apparent reason other than just stating the obvious?

If you lie, cheat, steal, manipulate, lust, and/or kill for any reason whatsoever, that make you evil, your actions evil. It's inside YOU. Nobody's perfect. We are all paying the prices for our actions in life, our weaknesses, our falling into temptations of various kinds.

Understand this, folks: what things you think or believe in are good by you may be viewed as evil by others. If Bush was waving that "horned" gesture because he thought it was cool to show his support to the University of Texas marching band on the Day of Inauguration, then some of you may believe it to be evil, satanic or whatever you call it. Get the idea?

If I did see or have some solid photographic evidences of a huge mass of public waving the "horned" gesture to President Bush as if it is a mass salutation a la "Heil Hitler", then I have a good reason to believe in Dr. Henry Makow and you all.

I just wish you all to think a bit more realistic than to resort yourself to believing far-fetched or wild claims as if you're not ruling out or discounting the possibility of such claims without some solid or proven evidences to the contrary. Anybody can state such a wild claim and keep driving at it until people begin to believe it unrealistically and conveniently treat it as a truth, until there are skeptics and doubters out to dispute or shoot it down. Sometimes, the line has to be blurred at some points to balance things out, as, perhaps, a way to compromise truth and fiction as some people would like to have.

When I read a conspiracy theory of something, I make it my point to research the background of it to separate the fact from the fiction and objectively see the difference. If we have several peoples making different interpretations on the same conspiracy theory, then we would have a hard time trying to see the differences between them. Though that's not always the case in most conspiracy theories in general, depending on what backgrounds did they researched into.

If some of you have reasons to believe that Bush is a satanist, then I have my reasons to believe that Iraq did have WMDs all along. We can go around and round with Bush as Satan issue until the cows do come home by the mere sight of "horned" hand-gesture. ;-) :-D

(Draken, thanks for that shocking video. It's very gruesome and sad how far people would goes: seeing the government trying bust on people's right to freely worship, even if it is a Satanist cult, even that cult committing that horrible crimes of murder, human sacrifice and perversion. I did not turn away from it, as you did. I have a pretty strong stomach as I've seen uglier gruesome stuff before). :-o

marypopinz
01-27-2005, 06:55 PM
"then I have my reasons to believe that Iraq did have WMDs all along."

If you believe this, you are believing a lie. Dr. David Kelly gave his life to tell that truth. Iraq had no WMD's. I spoke with Andrew Gilligan, the BBC reporter.

Anyone can choose to believe what they like about Iraq and Dr. Kelly, head of UN inspections died for the truth, after he was publicly hung in a kangaroo court.

Alumbrado -I would suggest you wake up to the truth. God is watching... God knows the difference between a lie and the truth. Do you?

mary XXX

Max
01-27-2005, 08:21 PM
Alumbrado, you are correct in that we can't guess what is in someones heart by them flashing a hand gesture (hence the principle of not to judge). We can however gain insight into a person by their actions- in Bushs case, his command has lead to the death of over 100,000 people (thus the "bad fruit").

I agree that it is important to research facts-- in all cases, either with testimony, photo, video, audio, whatever- it can all be questionable. I find it beneficial to not use absolutes like "is true" and "is false" because we don't know the absolute truth, never will. If you do find conflicting information then there is nothing wrong with presenting this information to bring about a new hypothesis- there's no reason that can't be done in a kind manner however.

As for the Lucifer residing within us, I have come to no conclusions as there is far too little information to determine what is really going on. I'm not planning on a search of course. A very real potential alternate viewpoint to the devil being in all of us however is to consider how our consensuses are all connected in the universe- thus giving us physic type powers (which are largely suppressed from us). This connection could allow for other people to plant thoughts in our brains-- something's could be good, some bad. Could it be that Lucifer is actually planning negative thoughts into our brains? Yes, it's possible but of course I don't know for sure. Having said that it's an interesting process trying to understand where our original thoughts actually come from. I try to monitor mine, it proves to be enlightening. Understanding your brains functionality also allows one to better process and filter out negative elements- it works for me.

As for mankind looking hard for centuries trying to explain why we do bad things (or whatever else), I don't give much consideration to that- the truth could be well known but suppressed.

Alumbrado, another question for you, since you study the matter, what do you think is the actual truth of the Creator's intentions with us on this world? Also, I still didn't get your view of the "fallen angel".


BTW- as for humor- I agree it is a great thing when well used.

alumbrado
01-27-2005, 08:29 PM
marypopinz wrote:
"then I have my reasons to believe that Iraq did have WMDs all along."

If you believe this, you are believing a lie. Dr. David Kelly gave his life to tell that truth. Iraq had no WMD's. I spoke with Andrew Gilligan, the BBC reporter.

Anyone can choose to believe what they like about Iraq and Dr. Kelly, head of UN inspections died for the truth, after he was publicly hung in a kangaroo court.

Alumbrado -I would suggest you wake up to the truth. God is watching... God knows the difference between a lie and the truth. Do you?

mary XXX

Then if you don't believe Iraq didn't have WMDs, then I may not believe you that Bush is a Satanist.

And you believe in Andrew "Gullible" Gilligan? The journalist who broke a sacred principle in investigative journalism: "protect the source"? The same journalist who admitted his error in releasing the identity of that source named David Kelly who committed suicide after the scandal of "sexed up" dossier issue relating to the Iraqi war?
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/01/30/britain.gilligan/

alumbrado
01-27-2005, 09:24 PM
Max wrote:
Alumbrado, another question for you, since you study the matter, what do you think is the actual truth of the Creator's intentions with us on this world?

All things are meant to be something for us, as we are all susceptible to God's Infinite Will. Such intentions are meant for Man to progress, transformatively, toward an union with God. Man is still a long way off from that and that's the job of the Satan: keep Man down from reaching God.


Max wrote:
Also, I still didn't get your view of the "fallen angel".


I still don't get your inability to research the origins of the fallen angel. :-? Much of my views I've learned are based from various sources: Dante's the Divine Comedy, John Milton's Paradise Lost, St Augustine's the City of God, Alice K. Turner's History of Hell, Joseph Campbell's the Power of Myth, the Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology, and informations founded in the Internet.

alumbrado
01-27-2005, 09:42 PM
Max wrote:
We can however gain insight into a person by their actions- in Bushs case, his command has lead to the death of over 100,000 people (thus the "bad fruit").

What's the difference between Bush and Saddam Hussein being responsible for the deaths of over 2.5 millions people (and still rising due to recently excavated mass graves) for his 30+ years reign?

Under the Presidency of Franklin D. Roosevelt, his command have led to the death of almost 300,000 Americans in World War II plus collectively responsible for the deaths of almost 3 millions of enemy casualties (Germany, Italy and Japan).

Under the Presidency of Abraham Lincoln, almost half a million Americans died fighting in the Civil War, more than half of that were under his command (the other less-than-half were of under Jefferson Davis' command).

People fought and died in wars under their leaderships under different circumstances all the times throughout the human history. Bush ain't no different than the rest.

Max
01-27-2005, 10:39 PM
Alumbrado, it's not my inability to do the research, I was just interested in your perspective on the matter.

As for Bush being like the rest of them, that is correct- I hold no allegiance to any of them, regardless of what the history books would like for us to think. Wars are basically fabricated by the elite to the demise of the masses- always have been.

Draken
01-28-2005, 01:36 AM
http://impiousdigest.com/lbj/multimediai.htm
Scroll down to "Another Face of Witchcraft".

I haven't read anything properly on this site, but it looks very interesting.

Truth, Beauty, Love

Draken
01-28-2005, 02:38 AM
alumbrado wrote:Sometimes, the line has to be blurred at some points to balance things out, as, perhaps, a way to compromise truth and fiction as some people would like to have.

There's no need to blurr the line between truth and fiction. I NEVER compromise the Truth. To compromise the Truth is to lie.

When I read a conspiracy theory of something, I make it my point to research the background of it to separate the fact from the fiction and objectively see the difference. If we have several peoples making different interpretations on the same conspiracy theory, then we would have a hard time trying to see the differences between them. Though that's not always the case in most conspiracy theories in general, depending on what backgrounds did they researched into.

I don't care for conspiracy "theories".

What's the difference between Bush and Saddam Hussein being responsible for the deaths of over 2.5 millions people (and still rising due to recently excavated mass graves) for his 30+ years reign?

As with the alleged mass killings of Milosevic, there is a great deal of doubt unreported by the mainstream media you refer to (CNN - infested with CIA & NSA psy-ops agents) about who those people they found in "mass graves" - both in former Yugoslavia and Iraq - really are and who actually killed them. I put mass graves within quotation marks because in some cases there is doubt if they ever existed or if the mass murders ever happened.

Below you'll find important articles on Yugoslavia vs. NATO, UN and US. I'm not saying this is the ultimate truth but these articles sure show a totally different picture. The relevance to Saddam and the alleged mass murders by him in Iraq is up to you to figure out.

I have personal experience of Iraqis telling me a totally different picture of what life was like under Saddam in the 60s and 70s, so let's not swallow without question everything CNN is telling us, OK?

At this stage I'll leave you to read these articles and check out the rest of this website. I'll try to find relevant and similar articles on the Iraq situation.


Was the Srebrenica 'Massacre' a Hoax?
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/falsely.htm

WAS THERE A MASSACRE IN SREBRENICA? WHAT REALLY HAPPENED AND WHY?
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/list-s.htm

Articles Related to Srebrenica
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/refutat.htm


"Milosevic's Speech at Kosovo Field"
http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/milosaid.html

The cornerstone of the vilification of Slobodan Milosevic is the speech he made to a huge crowd in June 1999 in Kosovo. Did he whip up nationalistic rage, or did he call for multiethnic unity and warn against the dangers of nationalism? Read it and judge for yourself.


"Media Misrepresentation of Milosevic's Words: A Review of the Evidence,"
by Francisco Gil-White
http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/gw.htm

Professor Gil-White compares the actual content of the pivotal speech that Slobodan Milosevic made in Kosovo in 1989 with the misrepresentations (and fabricated quotations!) of the same speech by politicians and the media.


Illegal Tribunal - Illegal Indictment
http://emperors-clothes.com/docs/prog2.htm

A long-standing UN consultant examines the legal justification for The Hague Tribunal (ICTY) and finds it nonexistent.


"Official Statements Prove Hague 'Tribunal' Belongs to NATO"
http://www.icdsm.com/more/belongs.htm

This documents our charge that the ICTY is NATO's instrument.


The Freezer Truck Hoax
by Francisco J. Gil-White
http://emperors-clothes.com/milo/freezer1.htm

When NATO failed to produce even *one* body of an Albanian massacred by Milosevic's forces, it proceeded to manufacture an elaborate hoax. This article contains the proof, including the smoking gun.


"A Reporter's Account of Evening Spent with the Commander of Bosnian Muslim Forces in Srebrenica"
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/oric.htm

The commander of the so-called Bosnian government's forces in the famous town of Srebrenica boasts of slaughtering Serb civilians in ways reminiscent of the Bosnian Islamist Waffen SS division during World War II.


"Stranger than Fiction: NATO and the US Sponsor Terror in Kosovo and Macedonia"
by Jared Israel
http://emperors-clothes.com/articles/jared/nocrime.htm


"How will you plead at your trial, Mr. Annan?"
http://emperors-clothes.com/news/howwill.htm

The London Observer quotes a UN document confirming our charge that the UN-created Kosovo Protection Corps is comprised of criminal thugs and terrorists.


'Dutch Report: US Sponsored Foreign Islamic Fundamentalists in Bosnia'
By Richard J Aldrich
Comments by Jared Israel
http://emperors-clothes.com/analysis/used.htm




Truth, Beauty, Love

marypopinz
01-28-2005, 07:47 AM
Alkumbrado,

Please answer this specific question please.

Max wrote: "Also, I still didn't get your view of the "fallen angel"."

What is YOUR view on the fallen angel? Lucifer?

Is he your guy cuz you are either vastly uninformed, blurring too many lies with truths or you aren't very good hiding your intentions.

Dr.Kelly and Andrew Gilligan... you obviously swallowed the lamestream preparation of said events. Experience, especially personal experience of these forces proves most enlightening in further recognizing those who would spin the truth into a hazy crazy lie.

The British media... Dr.Kelly and Andrew Gilligan... I'll have to start a thread on that one. Thanx Alumbravo!

Q: Max wrote: "Also, I still didn't get your view of the "fallen angel"."

A: please?

Mary XXX

Ozziecynic
01-28-2005, 07:56 AM
:-o alum:
I have a duty to God's truth in this world and that is finding the actual truth of the Creator's intentions with us on this world. I have some Hermetic understandings of the world.
Thats the problem and the dead give away!.
You say Hermetic pertaining to the Greek Messanger God Hermes also known as Mercury in Roman mythology carrying his cadeseus wand of alchemical change.Or is it the syncretic fraudulent Cult of Thoth of Hermes Trismegistus. You make no attempt to hide your occult intentions we are not all naive amateurs in the esoteric here you know!.

Some of you are under the impression that I'm into Lucifer or the Luciferian beliefs or whatever that is. The truth is that I have studied quite a bit about the origins of the Devil and have to conclusion that the "Devil" is actually resides in all of us, as Draken pointed out. It is in our own human nature. It's what we do to other people for various reasons. If you've watched those reality-game TV shows, you get the idea of what those people could and can do to other people to get what they wanted and that's just the glimpse of how far people are willing to do, in the manner of devilish/sinful behaviors.

Thats exactly why we need Jesus christ and his morality to give us some grounding moral absolutes rather than secular moral Relativism.
We are presently living in moral relatvist global system and look where it is getting us high crime lack of morality and degeneracy!.
You are right that the potential for evil is in all of us that is weight for the reasons why we need christ and the Bible to give us moral grounding.
Otherwise the world is chaos and anarchy as it is right now. You sound like Nietzschian because you are intentionally trying to undermine christianity in the posts of yours i have seen on this forum so far.It is so obvious this recent attempt by you to admit their is a creator is simply a ruse to soften others up but to no avial with me.
Also you said the creator which creator you are far too vague in the typical masonic manner.
The Creator could mean any Idol or spiritual entity perhaps you mean the GATOU hardly the christian God of the trinity, father son and Holy ghost?.You are not out of the woods yet sir.

For centuries, mankind have been looking very hard for a strong valid explanation of why we do very bad or horrible things to others, actions that deemed evil. For some, it is so conveniently to blame everything on the Devil as if the Devil is the only scapegoat. Point is, if some would have you believe, the Devil have only "himself" to blame if we bring all of our grievances that he wrought upon us since time began IN PERSON, face to face.

Ah yes the typical masonic or satanic argument that the devil is the scapegoat for Humanity.
So you want to know what evil i will tell you. Basically evil is the Human Ego gone rampant and out of control without discipline or restrictions!.
That is the true christian definition of evil or to put more philosophically something akin to Nietzsches Superman anyone who is so in love with their own ego that they believe they are a God.Which infact is many people in todays humanity true.Living in a laissez faire system with a libertine hedonist system must make the 21 st century Nightmare wish come true for you Occult types.
I know your game to soften up people here well it simply has failed one me. I am more than a match for you in intellect, Christian faith and esoteric awareness! So go back to where ever you came from!. :-D




:-o

Draken
01-28-2005, 04:30 PM
Ozziecynic wrote: So you want to know what evil i will tell you. Basically evil is the Human Ego gone rampant and out of control without discipline or restrictions!

You hit the nail right on the head. Couldn't have said it better.

alumbrado
01-28-2005, 05:51 PM
Max wrote:
Alumbrado, it's not my inability to do the research, I was just interested in your perspective on the matter.

*sigh* :roll:

My perspective is this: I'm only following biblical, literature and mythological sources on the origins of "Lucifer". There have been many different interpretations of the Devil or the Satan. The Old Testaments do not have anything descriptive on the Devil but the Satan is mentioned in the Book of Job. Bear in mind: the Satan is based on a Hebraic word for "the adversary" since his role was to test Job's faith in God.

The "angel of Light" was my reference to a Roman myth that the early Christians adopted to replace the Hebrew and Greek versions of the Satan in the shaping of the New Testaments for Latin-speaking Christians long after Jesus' death. Lucifer was a Latin name for the morning-star: the planet Venus. Remember this most famous phrase from the prophet Isaiah, "How art thou fallen from Heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning star!"? Keep in mind that's an English translation of that phrase from the Old Testaments. There was no "Lucifer" in Hebraic language in it. Rather Isaiah may be referring to Nebuchadnezzar, the king of Babylon, who saw himself as a god of light or another Babylonian king who fell out of God's grace.

Perhaps I was speaking in a metaphoric connotation of Lucifer being once a fallen angel of light. I was a bit hasty with it, drawing from my knowledge of those sources I've read over the years. I still do believe there is a greater force beyond us that we can't really see or feel but still are susceptible to its dark influences and its name is Lucifer/the Satan/Sammael/Elyon/Yezer Hara.

Dante, John Milton, even William Blake were huge influences on me with their epics. I've a degree in Fine Arts and have been an artist for many years, so I like stories of all kinds with myths and fantasy. That's an irony for me as a realist.

Does that help, Max?

alumbrado
01-28-2005, 05:57 PM
marypopinz wrote:
Dr.Kelly and Andrew Gilligan... you obviously swallowed the lamestream preparation of said events. Experience, especially personal experience of these forces proves most enlightening in further recognizing those who would spin the truth into a hazy crazy lie.


:roll:

alumbrado
01-28-2005, 06:38 PM
Ozziecynic wrote:
:-o alum:
Thats the problem and the dead give away!.
You say Hermetic pertaining to the Greek Messanger God Hermes also known as Mercury in Roman mythology carrying his cadeseus wand of alchemical change.Or is it the syncretic fraudulent Cult of Thoth of Hermes Trismegistus. You make no attempt to hide your occult intentions we are not all naive amateurs in the esoteric here you know!

:roll: And your point is?


Ozziecynic wrote:
Thats exactly why we need Jesus christ and his morality to give us some grounding moral absolutes rather than secular moral Relativism.
We are presently living in moral relatvist global system and look where it is getting us high crime lack of morality and degeneracy!.
You are right that the potential for evil is in all of us that is weight for the reasons why we need christ and the Bible to give us moral grounding.
Otherwise the world is chaos and anarchy as it is right now. You sound like Nietzschian because you are intentionally trying to undermine christianity in the posts of yours i have seen on this forum so far.It is so obvious this recent attempt by you to admit their is a creator is simply a ruse to soften others up but to no avial with me.

You are entitled to your beliefs and grasping at straws. Are you too concerned with the moral evils we see today that you are not doing anything about it except just to talk and rant here on this forum?

Christians are being persecuted or murdered left and right in Muslim countries just for spreading the Gospels of Jesus and you're focusing all of your energies on the likes of me (or anybody you think is a Mason, provocateur, or whatever different from you) just for speaking my opinions or expressing my views, of which I'm entitled under the First Amendment of the US Constitution?

I'm not here to soften you or anybody or to discredit Christianity. In fact, I'm in favor of the Christian faith and find its messages a far better alternative to any other faith in this world. My only concern is that Christianity is being used wrongly by the wrong people for the wrong reasons and Christian fanatics are just as bad as Muslim fanatics which are just as bad as any crazy fanatics in this world.

You, sir, seem to have all the makings of a Christian fanatic, judging from the unenlightened tone of your comments to me. :-?


Ozziecynic wrote:
So you want to know what evil i will tell you. Basically evil is the Human Ego gone rampant and out of control without discipline or restrictions!.
That is the true christian definition of evil or to put more philosophically something akin to Nietzsches Superman anyone who is so in love with their own ego that they believe they are a God.Which infact is many people in todays humanity true.Living in a laissez faire system with a libertine hedonist system must make the 21 st century Nightmare wish come true for you Occult types.

No, it's not only human ego gone rampart. It's our inability to recognize flaws and weaknesses in ourselves, which often led us to becoming frustrated, angry, or hatred that we couldn't handle it, we just take it out on others. Thousands years ago, peoples did not have any real understanding of themselves, in terms of mental, psychological, emotional and physical conditions these people were under. Life was pretty hard and short for them. They were susceptible to nature's wrath, often seeking favors or protections from the gods/goddesses they've invented in order to compensate the lacks of any scientific or rational understanding of the world and nature. The only people who possessed true knowledge and understanding of that in the ancient times were the priests or the priest-kings. Also, the Hebrews were the first people to recognize human failings and weaknesses among mankind, much of the Bible's Old Testaments are the stories of knowing weaknesses, morally or naturally and how to overcome it through some trials/errors. The Book of Job is the perfect example.

Evil exists because we are unable to reconcile ourselves with the facts that all of us have serious problems that we couldn't address, acknowledge, or confront altogether for the fear of being looking bad or evil to others.


Ozziecynic wrote:
I know your game to soften up people here well it simply has failed one me. I am more than a match for you in intellect, Christian faith and esoteric awareness! So go back to where ever you came from!. :-D :-o

:roll: Amusing. ;-) I have a feeling that I'm going to enjoy your rants on the forums.

marypopinz
01-28-2005, 07:03 PM
Evil is as evil does and the meaning of evil is indeed a personal one.

Is "fear factor" evil? Beautiful people doing anything for money.

How about "Jerry Springer"? The oddest limits of morality and character of society, airing all their dirty laundry and flashing their boobies for beads with a pole dancer on the set? This is entertaining to who? Jerry's accountant likes it, I bet.

Are these two tv "programs" good ideas regarding morality, to advertise into the mind of society? Are they instilling evil?

"I've heard tell the road to hell is paved with good intentions."

Hell is the creation and summation of evil acts regardless of good intention; a lack of attention regarding present evils and a lack of action regarding fighting for the right of good to remain important to our societies morality.

And it is true, people hate to see the evil within themselves for fear of not being accepted. That's how evil cycles round and around, a lie to cover another lie and then somewhere, somehow, the truth comes to light and the mirror is front and center.

Mary XXX

Alumbrado,

N.B.

Q: Do you believe that their were WMD's in Iraq and that's why we went to war? Is that what you believe?

alumbrado
01-28-2005, 08:01 PM
Q: Do you believe that their were WMD's in Iraq and that's why we went to war? Is that what you believe?

Before I may answer that, I'm very curious... what is your full knowledge or understanding of Iraq's WMD issue so far and what's your stand on the war? Do you believe that Saddam Hussein is entitled to develop his WMD programs and possess WMD?

madkhao
01-28-2005, 09:51 PM
Actually, there is something descriptive of satan in the old testament.

Read
Ezekiel 28:13-19
if you're interested.

nohope187
01-28-2005, 09:55 PM
Who are the norwegians again? oh, nevermind. :-P

marypopinz
01-28-2005, 10:01 PM
Alumbrado, I understand to the level of SO19, Scotland yard's anti-terrorism units understanding regarding WMD's in Iraq, the good Dr. Kelly, many picked off journalists attempting to tell the truth and numerous Iraqi relatives and witness to said war crimes; said war is illegal, against the fabric of human nature and genocidal evil, to say the least.

Mary XXX

Saddam is supping somewhere on his nice island, sipping his tea. The mainstream media and politics are World Wrestling Federation - WWF bullshit badly-acted out soap operas of foretold dramas spewing out of the great anus called Hollywood.

Wake up.

Mary XXX

freeman
01-28-2005, 10:12 PM
Saddam is supping somewhere on his nice island, sipping his tea.

Hell yes. How could a guy so loaded he crapped into goldplated toilets end up hiding in a "spider hole" like a cornered animal and not manage to find asylum in some friendly Islamic nation? All fiction for our benefit.
The real Saddam is most likely basking in his rich rewards as you say. After all, the Illuminati have to maintain a certain level of morale, too. Evil third-world leaders who sell out their countries to the West must be treated favorably, or they may become harder to install and control. Even General Noriega is incarcerated in a hotel prision, despite doublecrossing Bush Sr. Of course, his "insurance policies" don't hurt his cause, either.

alumbrado
01-28-2005, 10:14 PM
Mary, I'm going to have to take your words for one thing:

Do you watch "Wag the Dog" movie too many times? With popcorns and your tin-foil hat?

:-? :oops:

marypopinz
01-28-2005, 10:19 PM
Was that supposed to be funny?

You are a time waster... you evade answering direct questions... whatever dude.

Mary XXX

alumbrado
01-29-2005, 09:02 AM
marypopinz wrote:
Was that supposed to be funny?

You are a time waster... you evade answering direct questions... whatever dude.

Mary XXX

You did not answer my questions. That comment you posted last night was asinine.

Perhaps you never do your homework and resort yourself to making asinine comments just to show how "smart" you are. :roll:

So I won't be wasting your time and answering YOUR questions.

Draken
01-29-2005, 09:58 AM
alumbrado wrote: Thousands years ago, peoples did not have any real understanding of themselves, in terms of mental, psychological, emotional and physical conditions these people were under. Life was pretty hard and short for them. They were susceptible to nature's wrath, often seeking favors or protections from the gods/goddesses they've invented in order to compensate the lacks of any scientific or rational understanding of the world and nature. The only people who possessed true knowledge and understanding of that in the ancient times were the priests or the priest-kings.


This says it all to me.

The belief that Science and Ratio is superior to Traditional and Ancient knowledge.

This view confirms the belief in an evolutionary progress for the better, which is a typical sign of Intellectual and Spiritual stagnation.

Additionally, it confirms the Marxist belief that the Ancient priests and priest-kings usurped the power to rule over people and used it for their own material excesses, implying that ALL rulers use force, oppression and terror to rule.

The superiority of one Man over another in Ancient times did not have anything to do with physical might but a superiority of SPIRIT and SOUL.

Considering the stagnation of sovereignity in modern times; Julius Evola:

"...whenever we witness in history the triumph of a sovereignity and of a unity presiding over multiplicity in a merely material, direct, and political way - intervening everywhere, abolishing the autonomy of single groups, leveling in an absolutist fashion every right and every privilege, and altering and imposing a common will [Marx's "the common mind" Draken] on various ethnic groups - then there cannot be any authentic imperial power since what we are dealing with is no longer an organism but a mechanism; this type is best represented by the modern national and centralizing states. Whenever a monarch has descended to such a lower plane, in other words,wherever he, in losing his spiritual function, has promoted absolutism and a political and material centralization by emancipating himself from any bond owed to sacred authority, humiliating the feudal nobility, and taking over those powers that were previously distributed among the aristocracy - such a monarch has dug his own grave, having brought upon himself ominous consequences...

In Ancient times rulers and sovereigns were TRULY superior, being "twice born".

"If the 'imperialist' adventures of modern times have failed miserably, often bringing to ruin the peoples that promoted them, or if they have been transformed into calamities of different kinds, the cause is precisely the absence of any authentically spiritual, metapolitical, and metanationalistic element; that is replaced instead with the violence of a stronger power that nonetheless is of the same nature as those minor powers it attempts to subdue. If an empire is not a SACRED empire it is not an empire at all, but rather something resembling a cancer within a system comprised of the distinct functions of a living organism.

alumbrado
01-29-2005, 10:16 AM
Draken, well-stated. This is exactly the very reason how ancient rulers used knowledge passed down from priest-kings or brought up by their priests who claimed to guard ancient knowledges and secrets in order to control the society/kingdom. Much of the ancient civilizations were ruled by the powers of the One (the King, Priest-King or Queen) who claimed to have such knowledges that the mass do not possess or control.

freeman
01-29-2005, 10:17 AM
Yes, Draken, I agree. My admittedly limited studies in these areas convince me that what we call science is an inferior body of knowledge at best, and largely a distraction employed by the evil totalitarians, a shell game to keep humanity weak and powerless by looking under the wrong shell for the wrong pea.

marypopinz
01-29-2005, 10:26 AM
The earth being the center of the universe lasted for quite a while!

Mary XXX

Draken
01-29-2005, 11:41 AM
I'm afraid you misunderstand me, alumbrado. Alternatively, you try to make out as if I didn't mean YOUR view of matters.

The fact is that you believe this modern, anti-"traditionalist", scientific, rational world view which is Marxist, i.e. materialist, economic, mechanistic and ultimately satanic.

The Ancient Priest-Kings did not pretend to have Sacred Knowledge; they HAD sacred Knowledge. They did not claim to have Ancient Secret Knowledge to control the masses; the masses acknowledged their ruler to be truly superior and by realising their inferiority, let themselves be ruled by their free will, by a ruler SPIRITUALLY superior to them.

You embody the ideas of Modern Man; everything I work against. I'm a man of Tradition, at least I try to be in every aspect of my being.

rangergord
01-29-2005, 01:13 PM
It's all bunk.

Pat yourself on the back for being distracted.

--

Oh, the Protocols are a fraud.

Have a nice day.

Draken
01-29-2005, 01:58 PM
Very insightful addition to the issue, rangergord. Now what was the point of that? :-?
If you're not interested in the discussion, don't write.

Draken
01-29-2005, 03:51 PM
mary, freeman, nohope;

that Saddam arrest was a load of rubbish. The thing that gave it away for me was:
if the West knew Saddam had as many as 25 lookalikes for safety reasons and protection from assassinations, then how come the Americans - when they arrested him - suddenly KNEW dead certain it was the real Saddam? :lol:

marypopinz
01-29-2005, 07:27 PM
WTF Draken?

It's WWF! I agree. I knew it was a scam when I saw the Ali G movie - gave me the idea that all the bad guys end up on diplomatically immune islands, smoking giant reefer.

Osama and Hussein... curtain call 5 minutes please.

Osama, we need to video another statemnet to the American public - these are your lines.

Saddam - you get down that in that there little rabbit hole - it's gonna shoot great! Can someone fix the lighting? More soldiers please. Can we whip up a sand storm?

WTF mate?

Mary XXX

alumbrado
01-29-2005, 07:58 PM
Draken, it's all about what you understand and know from something and what others doesn't understand and know what you'd knew already.

In the ancient times, the masses didn't have so much opportunities to learn something deeper and more profound about the world and its nature, they were just trying to get by and live in such conditions, depended on their priests or shamans to interpret something too incomprehensible for them to actually learn. There were no informations to get around and share quickly around the regions in the ancient times. Only the few were selected and allowed to learn something the rest of the masses didn't get. That gave them the assumption that they were spiritually superior over the masses.

You should be thankful to science. Without science and without man's ability to think, rationalize and expand the knowledge of the world, all of its natural elements and SHARE it with the rest of the masses, you, everyone and I would NOT be here discussing and exchanging ideas on the Internet. Without your insights or mine or anyone, no one could learn from each and we would all still live in a dark age of ignorance and indifference, which often lead to wars, chaos, plague and conquests.

It's fine that you follow traditions and being you, I respect that. Don't diss at something that gave you the opportunity to speak your voice here. ;-)

Admit it, Draken. You know I'm right about that point.

Ozziecynic
01-29-2005, 08:44 PM
:-?
And your point is?

You are in the Occult you admitted it!.

You are entitled to your beliefs and grasping at straws. Are you too concerned with the moral evils we see today that you are not doing anything about it except just to talk and rant here on this forum?

I am a christian as said i attend small fellowship and have faith in Christ. As a christian that is all this expected of me. A christian is saved through faith alone although christian works can add to this, it is only through Gods grace and faith in him that we are saved from the abyss.
What would you be expecting of me out of curiosity!.

Christians are being persecuted or murdered left and right in Muslim countries just for spreading the Gospels of Jesus and you're focusing all of your energies on the likes of me (or anybody you think is a Mason, provocateur, or whatever different from you) just for speaking my opinions or expressing my views, of which I'm entitled under the First Amendment of the US Constitution?

It is very simple Muslims are not the enemy of christ and never have been the only enemies of christ are those snakes that constantly disseminate lies and deception to fool the judgements of otherwise good people. Masons are one of those groups and most people on this forum agree with me!.If you dont then you are in the minority here but dont expect to get any respect for your ways of deception!.

I am not a fanatic because i reject your lies. If you believe that makes me a fanatic well then so be it.However that would be rather foolish considering how left of centre many of my views are on some issues which others have pointed out!.
I am hardly a christian zionist fundermentalist these kooks are the real fanatics and they are also hypocrites GWB claims be one also. So far i see you more in agreement with them than me due to your neo con type opinions on U.S foreign policy.

My only concern is that Christianity is being used wrongly by the wrong people for the wrong reasons and Christian fanatics are just as bad as Muslim fanatics which are just as bad as any crazy fanatics in this world.

That is for sure and those that are using it in apostasy are the zio christian fundermenatalist e.g falwell, Robertson, in the U.S so far as i am concerned they have currupted christianity as has your Skull and Bones so called christian President!.And just like your president many of them are really just masons claming the nominal christian title.

No, it's not only human ego gone rampart. It's our inability to recognize flaws and weaknesses in ourselves, which often led us to becoming frustrated, angry, or hatred that we couldn't handle it, we just take it out on others.

These are simply the reasons why we need christ. We are in state of sin all have sinned.Thats why people are christians or should be the only reasons people are christians to let christ guide them in their lives because they are lost sinners without christs salvation.I feel like a preacher on sunday.Ofcause i am not but you dont even seem to realise the basics of christian faith.I find it hard to believe you could be a follower of christ!.

They were susceptible to nature's wrath, often seeking favors or protections from the gods/goddesses they've invented in order to compensate the lacks of any scientific or rational understanding of the world and nature. The only people who possessed true knowledge and understanding of that in the ancient times were the priests or the priest-kings.

So is your intention to put christianity in the same boat as pre christian religions as mere irrational superstition like the good deist you are. Ah yes reason and science the only rational justification for our existence.
So if you believe this then why would claim to care for christians because you have just placed christianity as an irrational creed equal with pagans beliefs!.Let me tell you something christianity is not based on rationality and never has been nor is any other faith for that matter faith does not require reason to exist anyone that claim otherwise is a masonic fraud out to corrupt the spirit of christ!.

Evil exists because we are unable to reconcile ourselves with the facts that all of us have serious problems that we couldn't address, acknowledge, or confront altogether for the fear of being looking bad or evil to others.

I couldnt agree more.That is why we need christ no one is perfect all are in a state of sin for the second time.:roll:

alumbrado
01-29-2005, 11:08 PM
Ozzie, do you realized that Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Christ of Mankind? They only viewed Jesus as a prophet as being a part of a long line of prophets going back to Abraham, Noah and Adam, nothing more.

Even the Qu'ran clearly stated Muslims should not mix with Christians and to kill them if provoked for any reason. In spite of the same belief in God, they are theologically incompatible when they comes to the spiritual affairs of mankind.

One more thing, Ozzie, I'm not into any occult group or deep, deep into the Occult. I haven't gotten that far. Mysticism is more suitable for me as I'm always seeking the deeper meanings and understandings of all that is the Glory and Wisdom of God. Do not presume me to be a Satanist, for that I harbor no ills toward the Christian faith.

You are the most unenlightened backward christian I've ever seen on any forum. You make really good Christians looked bad. :-(

Ozziecynic
01-30-2005, 04:27 AM
Ozzie, do you realized that Muslims do not accept Jesus as the Christ of Mankind? They only viewed Jesus as a prophet as being a part of a long line of prophets going back to Abraham, Noah and Adam, nothing more.

This has nothing to do with the point i was making. The point is not whether Islam or christianity are compatible.The point is God, jesus does not tell us that Islam is an enemy nowhere is it stated in the Bible OT or NT.
It also does not encourage us to hate or encourage hatred against other Monotheist religions.Only pagan religions that worship Idols are singled out as the antithesis of God.
All monotheist religions are noble Judaism( excluding talmudist jews) christianity,Islam because they all share a common source.

You are attempting to turn me against a Noble monotheist religion and your hatred and intolerance are for all to see. Islam has many noble qualities some of them are far more noble than many of the fruads that call themselves christians or secular humanists/nihilists in the west can offer.Our civilisation isnt going to the dog s for nothing you know.
Iam not a believer of institutional Deist christianity e.g like the Catholic or Anglican churches etc.Much of it i consider to be apostate!There is no one more acidic than false christian on judgement day they will be toasted. I look forward to these snakes getting roasted.Many them are in high places like Hinn, but there assets wont save them on this occasion.

One more thing, Ozzie, I'm not into any occult group or deep, deep into the Occult. I haven't gotten that far. Mysticism is more suitable for me as I'm always seeking the deeper meanings and understandings of all that is the Glory and Wisdom of God. Do not presume me to be a Satanist, for that I harbor no ills toward the Christian faith.

Really what kind of christian would be trying to encourage anti muslim sentiment like you are here.
What kind of christian would be trying to convince people that Lucifer was a God of Light from a statement by Freemasonic Grand master Albert Pike. Yes thats right i know where you got that idea from I suppose you also believe that Jesus christ is Adonay the Dark cold god.
I finally what kind christian would be trying to convince us all that Lucifer is just scapegoat for mans lack of rationality.Oh and before i forget remeber this statement.
I have some Hermetic understandings of the world.

You said you had a hermetic understanding of the world how many christians have such an understanding of the world i wonder!.
You where stating before that Christianity and Islam are incompatible. So i suppose you believe that Alchemy and christanity are fully compatible yes!.Hmm Right,interesting i wonder how many christians would hold that view! Question how many do you think?. Your a christian pal are you?. yeh right what a Jest! :lol: :lol:

You are the most unenlightened backward christian I've ever seen on any forum. You make really good Christians looked bad.

Unenlightened is the only thing your going to get agreement from me on tonight pal yes iam unenlightened alright.I have no wish to be brainwashed by secular Humanist zioganda correct!. :lol: :lol:

Draken
01-30-2005, 04:53 AM
alumbrado wrote:
In the ancient times, the masses didn't have so much opportunities to learn something deeper and more profound about the world and its nature, they were just trying to get by and live in such conditions, depended on their priests or shamans to interpret something too incomprehensible for them to actually learn. There were no informations to get around and share quickly around the regions in the ancient times. Only the few were selected and allowed to learn something the rest of the masses didn't get. That gave them the assumption that they were spiritually superior over the masses.

In ancient times the masses didn't need to learn something deeper about the world; they were part of the Divine hierarchy, hence they KNEW. In the ancient order everyone had their place and were proud of their place. They didn't want to be anywhere else. The spiritually superior were TRULY superior and the inferior acknowledged the leadership of the truly superior.


You should be thankful to science. Without science and without man's ability to think, rationalize and expand the knowledge of the world, all of its natural elements and SHARE it with the rest of the masses, you, everyone and I would NOT be here discussing and exchanging ideas on the Internet. Without your insights or mine or anyone, no one could learn from each and we would all still live in a dark age of ignorance and indifference, which often lead to wars, chaos, plague and conquests.

It's fine that you follow traditions and being you, I respect that. Don't diss at something that gave you the opportunity to speak your voice here. ;-)

Admit it, Draken. You know I'm right about that point.


The Internet didn't start a worldwide revolution to get people SUDDENLY start communicating with eachother. We don't need the Internet to talk to eachother. If I didn't have the "opportunity" to speak my mind here on this forum, I'd do it somewhere else. I'm in no way dependent on the Internet - thank GOD! - to get my ideas out and communicating with other people.

WESTERN science might at the best of times "expand the knowledge of the world" BUT ONLY HORIZONTALLY. Meaning, WESTERN science goes about discovering everything on THIS LEVEL; the material level. It's the LOWEST level. It doesn't even realise there IS a VERTICAL direction.

Allow me to quote Evola:

"Every modern, profane science corresponds in the world of Tradition to a "sacred" science that had an organic, qualitative character and considered nature as a whole in a hierarchy of degrees of reality and forms of experience in which the form connected to the physical senses is just one among others. It is precisely in this way that the system of transpositions and symbolic and ritual participations was made possible. This was the case in cosmology and in related disciplines: for instance, ancient alchemy was not at all a primitive chemistry and ancient astrology was not at all (as it is mistakenly assumed today) a superstitious deification of the heavenly bodies and of their movements, but a knowledge of the stars so organized as to be able to constitute a science of purely spiritual and metaphysical realities expressed in a symbolic form." (my emphasis)

So what we have today is not "sacred" science that Evola talks about, but "demonic" science, in my opinon.

I don't think you really understand what I mean when I say I'm a man of Tradition; I might be wrong.
If you're interested, go to the INTEGRAL TRADITION thread in the "Share The Knowledge" forum and read the links I posted there.

alumbrado
01-30-2005, 07:58 AM
Ozziecynic wrote:
This has nothing to do with the point i was making. The point is not whether Islam or christianity are compatible.The point is God, jesus does not tell us that Islam is an enemy nowhere is it stated in the Bible OT or NT.
It also does not encourage us to hate or encourage hatred against other Monotheist religions. Only pagan religions that worship Idols are singled out as the antithesis of God.
All monotheist religions are noble Judaism( excluding talmudist jews) christianity,Islam because they all share a common source.

All religions are originally pagan, even some religions follow monotheistic beliefs. Period. There is no religion more different and unique than the rest.

You've failed to take to account that Muslims considers Islam to be the true religion over all other religions, including Christianity and Judaism. It was never meant to compliment the Christian and Hebraic faiths. How would you reconcile with the fact that if you ever try to carry the Bible in your hands in Mecca, you would be approached by the Saudi religious police, your Bible confiscated and throw you in jail with the anticipation of being publicly lashed in front of the Muslim worshippers?



Ozziecynic wrote:
Iam not a believer of institutional Deist christianity e.g like the Catholic or Anglican churches etc.Much of it i consider to be apostate!There is no one more acidic than false christian on judgement day they will be toasted. I look forward to these snakes getting roasted.Many them are in high places like Hinn, but there assets wont save them on this occasion.

This is why I loathe Christian fanatics like you. Close-minded blind faith is the most dangerous and very evil thing in the world. :-(

You're really twisting my words and taking my words out of context. You failed to understand my points that I've explained 2-3 pages back.

I stated that I have SOME Hermetic understandings of the world. That's it. It does not mean that I'm very Hermetic thinker, just understanding some Hermetic teachings and beliefs and leave it at that. I don't go around and preaching Hermetic beliefs upon others.

You are also a very stupid man, Ozzie. :-?

I'm not going to waste my time arguing with an unenlightened thick-head christian idiot like you. You're a joke to the Christian faith.

alumbrado
01-30-2005, 08:19 AM
Draken wrote:
The Internet didn't start a worldwide revolution to get people SUDDENLY start communicating with eachother. We don't need the Internet to talk to eachother. If I didn't have the "opportunity" to speak my mind here on this forum, I'd do it somewhere else. I'm in no way dependent on the Internet - thank GOD! - to get my ideas out and communicating with other people.

That may be true, in your case. But the rest of the people aren't like you. The Internet was originally started out by scientists seeking to share informations faster than snail mail or distribute information more clearly stated than talking over telephone. By then, the Internet have evolved into something big for business, creative and personal purposes for all to share, network and distribute such information. I would like to think the Internet is a real blessed thing to have today.


Draken wrote:
WESTERN science might at the best of times "expand the knowledge of the world" BUT ONLY HORIZONTALLY. Meaning, WESTERN science goes about discovering everything on THIS LEVEL; the material level. It's the LOWEST level. It doesn't even realise there IS a VERTICAL direction.

Allow me to quote Evola:

"Every modern, profane science corresponds in the world of Tradition to a "sacred" science that had an organic, qualitative character and considered nature as a whole in a hierarchy of degrees of reality and forms of experience in which the form connected to the physical senses is just one among others. It is precisely in this way that the system of transpositions and symbolic and ritual participations was made possible. This was the case in cosmology and in related disciplines: for instance, ancient alchemy was not at all a primitive chemistry and ancient astrology was not at all (as it is mistakenly assumed today) a superstitious deification of the heavenly bodies and of their movements, but a knowledge of the stars so organized as to be able to constitute a science of purely spiritual and metaphysical realities expressed in a symbolic form." (my emphasis)

So what we have today is not "sacred" science that Evola talks about, but "demonic" science, in my opinon.

When people think horizontally, they look ahead of themselves and only see for themselves. When people think vertically, they look ahead of themselves and realize there is something far greater, more powerful, majestic and glorious than themselves. I have horizontal and vertical views of everything and God, I like this more balanced approach to spiritual, physical and metaphysical understandings.

Some people use science as a mean to understand and respect nature as a whole whereas some people use science as a mean to observe and exploit nature to their advantages. There are always two sides of the same coin with mankind.


Draken wrote:
I don't think you really understand what I mean when I say I'm a man of Tradition; I might be wrong.
If you're interested, go to the INTEGRAL TRADITION thread in the "Share The Knowledge" forum and read the links I posted there.

I have not check it out but I will. Thanks. ;-)

Draken
01-30-2005, 09:46 AM
I don't think the Internet is blessed. It distracts people from going out to seek and FIND the Truth for themselves. Nothing can replace personal experience as a superior manifestation of the Truth.

There's nothing "blessed" about sitting in front of a radiating screen, staring, pretending to be communicating with someone you never met.

"The rest of the people" are EXACTLY like me: they have arms, legs, head, brain, heart, all of which can be used for communication!
Don't sell yourself cheap. You don't need the Internet to communicate anymore than I do. It's just a fun distraction. REAL communication is when you talk to a stranger on the bus home from work. Just looking at someone and smiling is so much more superior than the Internet! Just try it and see the miraculous effect it has on you, the one you smile at and everyone around you.

No one needs the Internet - I dare you, I DOUBLE DARE YOU! :lol:

You're ok, alumbrado - basically. But I think you put your faith a little too much in modern science. I'm really looking forward reading your views on Tradition... ;-)

Ozziecynic
01-31-2005, 04:48 AM
:-o All religions are originally pagan, even some religions follow monotheistic beliefs. Period. There is no religion more different and unique than the rest.

Here we go again with your serpent like undermining of Christianity. Christianity never started as pagan religion.There is only one Christ and he is the saviour of mankind his name is Jesus christ!. As for some religions follow monotheist beliefs, so what well duh ofcause they do.As christian your never going to get agreement from me over the last sentence here so dont even mention it.
For someone that claimed no later than two posts ago that they were a christian and believed in a creator you really have done a complete flipflop havent and you and made a complete hypocrite and fool of yourself.Is it my imgination because for someone that thinks of themselves as possesing some elite knowledge you really end up looking like such a fool.Ofcause i knew what you were all along. So Sqirm snake squirm.



You've failed to take to account that Muslims considers Islam to be the true religion over all other religions, including Christianity and Judaism. It was never meant to compliment the Christian and Hebraic faiths. How would you reconcile with the fact that if you ever try to carry the Bible in your hands in Mecca, you would be approached by the Saudi religious police, your Bible confiscated and throw you in jail with the anticipation of being publicly lashed in front of the Muslim worshippers?

I havent failed anything because for the second time if i can get it through to your thick scull(no apologisees for insult you began it) i was not making a point about whether they are compatible or get along or not!.Unlike you i hold no spite towards other monotheist religions.I do have problem with pagan and occult types like you though, who are snakes disseminating real lies!. As for Muslims trying dominate the west in clash of civilisations type scenario i have never bought that neocon U.S zioganda it is simply bollocks!. The U.S military/intelligence complex started the Imperialist aggression and now they are continuing it.
They wish to give the world their sloppy free trade and degenerate culture whether the rest of the world wants it or not I am fedup of the US and its NWO. The U.S is the New Babylon and even it own citizens know it thats why sites like this one exist because U.S citizens are so pissed off with their own government and country.

This is why I loathe Christian fanatics like you. Close-minded blind faith is the most dangerous and very evil thing in the world.
Oh and i suppose your not closed minded then Right, Dream on!.The fanatics of Reason the Masons. Lets see now they brought us the Enlightenment the French revolution and the savagery of the jacobites and murder of very decent noble people.
They brought us Neopolean and the first modern Imperialism. Then world war 1 with their yid mates and their Protocals and Black Hand.
They brought us 1917 and Bolshevism and then finally they brought us Mussolini and fascism then Hitler and the Nazis.
And now GWB cesar of washington d.c or is Alexander of the New Babylon. I guess all these new movies recently must mean something, Hollywood dont worry i got the drift!.
All thanks to the fanatics of secular Humanism and its philosophy of reason.That means people like you alumbrado snake, thank you for the suffering of Reason the real God of man :lol:

stated that I have SOME Hermetic understandings of the world. That's it. It does not mean that I'm very Hermetic thinker, just understanding some Hermetic teachings and beliefs and leave it at that. I don't go around and preaching Hermetic beliefs upon others.

You stated a few posts ago that Lucifer was the God of Light which was quoting Albert Pike.So that means you must think the Christian God is Adonay the Cold God quoting Pike!.You said it Now deal with it!.

You are also a very stupid man, Ozzie. I'm not going to waste my time arguing with an unenlightened thick-head christian idiot like you. You're a joke to the Christian faith.

Oh whats the matter poor alumbrdao the truth is getting to hot for you poor child. Lets throw a tantrem didems heres some tissues! :-( :-(

alumbrado
01-31-2005, 05:33 PM
Ozziecynic wrote:
Blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah!!!


:roll:

Jesus, man, get the f**k over your stupid nonsensical statements with me and say something comprehensibly without prejudice against me.

:roll: