ARE THEY WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE? And that is...?

[truebeliever]

Well MT, i guess your outed. Many thanxs.

Maybe I should join...you people are so honest!

[MasonTemplar]

Thanks...I think...
One thing I forgot to mention. Most KC Councils rent the spaces for their meetings. This wasn't always the case. Many councils had money donated by the members for down payments to get their own building. Over the years, as membership declined, those councils also lost those gifts. Ours is one such council. We used to own our own hall, which stood side by side with a masonic lodge. We used to do some joint activities - like a potluck supper - every once in a great while. They've moved on to a gigantic masonic center that has a bunch of different lodges participating in it. It's very nice and modern.
We rent a small room that's attached to a school next to its sponsoring church. We were able to sock some of the money away from the sale of our hall. We use that small nestegg to supplement our growing financial shortfalls. We had a gentleman in the past that did a poor investment choice, and it nearly wiped us completely out.
I'm the youngest in our council at 30 years old - the next youngest is in his 40's and most are in their mid 50's and much higher. Like I said - lots of WWII, Korea, and Vietnam vets.
I'd like to tell some of our nefarious deeds, but I haven't been able to find any. :-P But, I'm always looking. :-x :-) ;-)

[Yeoshua]

Good effort MT, some very persuasive arguments there, wrong, but persuasive.

Freemasonry has, since its formal inception with the uniting of four London based lodges in 1717, sought an answer for its roots in history. The speculations have been as varied as the Freemasons who have offered them. Among the speculations have been the Masons of Ancient Egypt, The Roman Building Guilds, Solomon's workmen and a host of others.

In the early 1700's a new theory was presented for Masonic history and that was, that the Freemasons began in the medieval deserts of the Levant with the Crusaders and Knights Templar. The responsibility for this theory lies with two different men, Andrew Michael Ramsay and the German Baron Karl Von Hundt.

Regardless of ones acceptance or rejection, it cannot be argued that Masonry does carry within its side degrees a form of Masonic Templarism. While the Scottish Rite contains a degree revolving around the Templars, as I have discussed, I will deal with York Rite Templarism. Within Freemasonry's York Rite are found four bodies:

The Craft or Speculative Lodge:
Entered Apprentice
Fellowcraft
Master Mason

Capitular Masonry - Chapter:
Mark Master Mason
Virtual Past Master (USA)
Most Excellent Master
Royal Arch

Cryptic Rite Masonry:
Royal Master
Select Master
Super Excellent Master

Chivalric Masonry:
Illustrious Order Of The Red Cross
Order Of Malta
Order OF The Temple - Knights Templar

Hope this helps and corrects the inaacurate...........

[MasonTemplar]

I haven't really argued anything. The only thing I disagreed with you on in this thread is the Sovereign Order of the Knights of Malta. Where as what you're talking about is merely a degree, not the actual organziation - which consists of 11,000 members. Ask any historian or fraternal researcher and they will tell you the same thing. Your degrees might be offshoots on the original premise, but that's all you can claim.
As for the history of freemasonry you've posted, I don't disagree with you. There have been many different influences to the "craft."
My personal opinion is that the masons became as prominent as they are when the "noble" classes assimilated into the guilds lodges because of its secrecy, thus the birth of speculative freemasonry. Many of the Templars were of nobility. Especially the Scottish linneages like the Family Bruce. But, like I said, that's just my opinion. And, really, that's all we can have since not even masonic researchers can say for sure.