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madkhao 01-13-2005 07:54 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
DarkChild, you got balls for sure.

I have some questions myself.

Why do people take it to heart when someone on this site says something along the lines of 'go away, we don't want you here'?

Why do they cave in and disappear?

Have they been blocked?

Why do they give that much power to others?

get_real 01-13-2005 07:58 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
Gee Billiard:
Didn't mean to upset you or argue with you.
Seems too many Christians use Christianity to hide behind, oh and be saved as well. Because what if there really is a hell. The same for other religions. Yes, I mentioned the bible because the bible (for many) is not 'seen' as fundamental as many Christians see it. When I first read the bible some 40 years ago, I just couldn't understand why Christians 'don't get it'. Do I belong to Mensa, NO. Do I actually know who wrote the bible, NO. But there is something to be said about those that can see 'blueprints' in the bible. Are there good things in the bible, sure. I hope that you and others will not get angry when I say that some of these conspiracy sites and members believe that the whole "Jesus" thing is one of the greates hoaxes. I've even known "Christians" who openly admitted it. So why do they go along with it. Figure it out.
I appreciate reading all sites, we all gain some knowledge of something. Let's be adult, and share, and leave in peace. :-)

DarkChilde3D 01-13-2005 08:04 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
To madkhao,
Because when you tell someone to 'go away . . .,' especially for the purpose of having a certain or any religion, it tends to make seem, especially in a forum full of freedom fighters, like there is no freedom to worship.

I've never told a non-believer to get out . . . I was always taught to practice tolerance. I just feel that for others not to show it, especially to or from someone who believes in a forgiving and tolerant God, is just distastful.

Have I ever told anyone, "EWE, you're an athiest! Get out!" Nope . . . I never have. I do expect to be respected by others in the way I respect them.

Now back to the point . . . all I've seen so far are my questions being answered by more questions.

That's like the wife catching you looking at a nudie mag, and you reply 'what nudie mag?'

Now I'm looking for serious answers here, and it looks like its going to become a flame thread. That's not cool. If you guys who are non-believers who cannot accept believers here cannot answer . . . or if you guys who are non-believers who cannot accept the discussion of God . . .

Look at it this way . . . some people were scared enough to ask ME to ask . . . hey, you're people.

If God is just a make-believe person in the sky . . . then what are YOU afraid of?

Ahmad 01-13-2005 08:11 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .

I really look for the day when all the people can debate without hating each other.

As for the "we are born sinners", i believe it is not a logical idea for two reasons,

1- If Adam and his wife sinned, why would i be responsible for their deed? i am sure that some of my relatives are evil, would that make me evil by blood?

2- Would God send us to the test without means of answering the questions ourselves? i mean why wouldn't WE be able to redeem ourselves by ourselves?

But anyway i believe that all of us ate from the forbidden tree, not only Adam and Eve, and that's why God sent us to take this makeup test, however i believe also that the record starts from ZERO SINS from the moment of inception till the age of 40 as per Quran. Because Adam and his wife asked God for forgivness for the original sin, and God did redeem us all from this sin only, however we had to come here to purify ourselves from the traces of doubts in His absolute authority (doubts developed when we accepted Satan's invitation).

I also believe that no soul can carry the sin of another, everybody is accountable individually, and the test is here and now, every minute you can say NO or YES to Satan, there is no such easy way out of "i accept Jesus, i am free". This is just to make you think.

P.S: If the owner of this thread doesn't want any other subjects on his thread, please let me know.


[5:75] The Messiah, son of Mary, is no more than a messenger like the messengers before him, and his mother was a saint. Both of them used to eat the food. Note how we explain the revelations for them, and note how they still deviate!

[5:76] Say, "Would you worship beside GOD powerless idols who can neither harm you, nor benefit you? GOD is Hearer, Omniscient." [5:77] Say, "O people of the scripture, do not transgress the limits of your religion beyond the truth, and do not follow the opinions of people who have gone astray, and have misled multitudes of people; they are far astray from the right path."

billiard 01-13-2005 08:29 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
get real

as for christians who admit the "jesus thing" is a hoax , they are not christian ,and probably never were . you asked for a definition of "christian" but believe the "jesus thing" is a hoax. is that not being disingenuous?

i also don't know what you mean when you say "hide behind christianity" . can you be specific .?

and what is it that christians "just don't get"? am i a member of mensa? no. could i be if i saw any value in it? probably .so what? what's the point? that you are intelligent? you are intelligent .that's obvious . so what? so are other people .intelligence is not necessarily a great blessing .the happiest people i have known have not been the most intelligent. it's good to know things but better still to be happy .so intelligence can be an obstacle .tell me ,what is it that i "don't get"?

what in the world do you mean when you say there are "blueprints" in the bible? blueprints for what? i certainly don't get that part . maybe i'm not so intelligent after all.

it is a historic fact that jesus was put to death by the roman government. it's recorded by secular and jewish historians(josephus ,for one)so saying he didn't exist is to ignore fact . the only question is ,is the bible's account of WHY he was crucified the truth? i believe it is .why? because it makes sense to me . the bible makes sense to me, but if i didn't want it to, it probably wouldn't. i guess we all believe what we want to believe .i want to believe in God ,in his inherent goodness,that he loves me as an individual ,that he answers prayer and that he watches over me and my loved ones .do i believe it because i want to or because it's in the bible? both i think,but if it weren't in the bible,i don't think my wanting to would be enough .what i don't understand is why you don't want to believe it.

get_real 01-13-2005 09:26 AM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
Hey Billiard:
When I said I don't belong to Mensa, I was making light of being just plain folk and seeing more to this bible than the whole Jesus concept/idea whatever. And I can see your passion in your belief, that's really fine with alot of people. But I'll just jump to your last question: 'why I don't want to believe'. So what that I don't? So WHAT? I do not believe I'll go to some hell/damnation for not believing what you have to say. I never said anyone is going here or there if they don't go along with me.
And yes, people do hide behind "Christianity", and here in Pinellas COunty, Florida is living proof. Wish you could visit. YOUR eyes might just widen. The Christians here would be the first in line to pull the 'levers' in any torture chamber (with a grin on their face!)
Believe me I KNOW!!! I was going to elaborate on my bad experiences, but I won't. I do not fear the idea of death, I've come close many times.
However, I've known many religious fanatics who feel it is their given right to attack, yes I'm talking especially (here we go again) the Christians. I feel you are a good person Billiard, and ya know what? So am I.

billiard 01-13-2005 01:08 PM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .

are you telling me that,according to the quran ,God doesn't count anything you do before the age of 40 against you? so a guy could rape,steal,kill blaspheme and enjoy it till the day he dies and so long as he is under 40 when he dies,God doesn't mind?!? that's pretty incredible .

Ahmad 01-13-2005 01:21 PM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
Peace billiard,

Appendix 32
of the Authorized English translation of the Quran by Dr. Rashad Khalifa

The Crucial Age of 40

What is the age of responsibility? If a child dies at the age of 12, without even hearing about God, does this child go to Heaven or Hell? What if the child is 15 years old, or 21, or 25? At what age will the human being be held responsible for his or her beliefs?
This question has puzzled researchers of all religions for a long time.

The Quran sets the age of responsibility at 40; anyone who dies before this age goes to Heaven (46:15). If the person believed in God and benefitted from belief by nourishing and developing the soul (see Appendix 15), he or she goes to the High Heaven. Otherwise, the person goes to the Lower Heaven.

Your first reaction to this piece of information is objection: "What if the person was really bad, evil, and an atheist, will he go to Heaven if he died before the age of 40?" This is because you are mean, while God is the Most Merciful. Our tendency is to "put them all in Hell." People who objected strongly to this Divine mercy cannot come up with a cut-off age of responsibility. They ask questions like, "What if the person was really wicked?" The answer is, "Does God know that this person was wicked?" "Yes."
"Does God know that this person does not deserve to go to Heaven?" "Yes."
"Therefore, this person will not die before the age of 40." As simple as that.
God is the only one who terminates our lives on this earth. He knows exactly who deserves to go Heaven and who deserves to go to Hell.

Early in 1989 a man by the name of Theodore Robert Bundy was executed for killing a number of women. The whole nation agreed that he was one of the most vicious criminals in history. So much so that his execution was one of the rare occasions where the opponents of capital punishment did not protest. On the contrary, many people actually celebrated his execution. Numerous journalists, editorials, and politicians lamented the fact that justice took eleven years to execute Ted Bundy. They stated that Bundy should have been executed within a maximum of six years after his conviction.
According to the Quran, this would have been the greatest favor anyone could have done to Bundy. He was 42 years old when executed. Had he been executed five years earlier, at the age of 37, he would have gone straight to Heaven, and he did not deserve that.

As it turns out, Bundy was one of the signs God has given us to confirm that anyone who dies before 40 goes to Heaven. Bundy's name, Theodore Robert Bundy, consists of 19 letters, and he confessed to killing 19 women just one day before his execution.
There were many other signs from God.

Delivering this important piece of information is one of the responsibilities given to me as God's Messenger of the Covenant. It is not my personal opinion. It is noteworthy that both Martin Luther King and Malcolm X were assassinated just a couple of months before their 40th birthdays.

DarkChilde3D 01-13-2005 05:17 PM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
Basicly, we're responsible while we're still a gleam in the eye.

There are Jews in the world.
There are Buddhists.
There are Hindus and Mormons, and then
There are those that follow Mohammed, but
I've never been one of them.

I'm a Roman Catholic,
And have been since before I was born,
And the one thing they say about Catholics is:
They'll take you as soon as you're warm.

You don't have to be a six-footer.
You don't have to have a great brain.
You don't have to have any clothes on. You're
A Catholic the moment Dad came,


Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Every sperm is sacred.
Every sperm is great.
If a sperm is wasted,
God gets quite irate.

Lyrics by Monty Python
for the movie, Meaning of Life.

A real pisser, hmmm?

madkhao 01-13-2005 07:06 PM

Re: Let me ask one question of the anti-religious . . .
No one seems to be answering the original three questions of this post. I think you might have to get more ballsy and specifically name names DC.

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