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HothSnake 04-12-2006 07:35 AM

Fascist Democracy

Bouncer 04-12-2006 09:12 AM

Re: Fascist Democracy
I used to think that Max Weber and Karl Marx were truly altruistic in their utopian rants against capitalism and the private concentration of wealth. Hmmmmmm . . . . So, if this is part of the Illuminati agenda, then it was their best effort at the time to foist collectivism and state fascism upon an unknowing and desparate population.
Yep. Sounds like them!

Jimbo 04-12-2006 09:16 AM

Re: Fascist Democracy
Fascist Democracy ??? - :-o :-o :-o

Hail Amerika !!!

I'd say about 95% Fascist, & 5% effort in the "make believe" illusion of Democracy.

Thank God for "Freedom Of Speech"...

HothSnake 04-12-2006 11:01 AM

Re: Fascist Democracy
Exactly bouncer... If you look at the origins of communism, you will find that it was born of the doctrines of the Illuminati and spread by their paid agents. The Bolshevic Revolution was as fake and contrived as the French Revolution, and organized by the same people.

It's the same trick that is being run by our politicos in Washington. Create massive corruption and then blame it on some minority group (Jews, bourgeois,railroad tycoons), while proposing some fix that entails taking the rights and liberties of the common people and giving it to the corruptors. By this point we are so brainwashed that we beg for it. A democratically elected government is the soul of corruption, because it is susceptible to those that control the monetary powers of a nation. Essentially, if you get rid of the fiat money system, you will see most political corruption whither on the vine.

Actually Jimbo, if you look at what democracy truly is, it has nothing to do with freedom or liberty. Hitler, Yasser Arafat, and Saddam Hussein were all democratically elected. It is rule of the mob, which runs counter to rule of law. America was originally established as a Constitutional Republic and not a democracy. In fact, our Founders rather despised democracy. It takes nothing to rig an election or to fool the public into believing your lies.

Jimbo 04-12-2006 11:38 AM

Re: Fascist Democracy
Fascist Democracy ??? - :-o :-o :-o

Viva la Revolusion !!!

So, how do you get rid of the fiat money system, consolidate & control the wealth, & create a fair system where everyone’s efforts & labor are normalized & properly compensated, w/o privileges & favoritism, & w/o having to fight those that have already consolidated & controlled all of the wealth & power by killing & murdering the masses throughout history ???

Thank God for "Freedom Of Speech"...

HothSnake 04-12-2006 03:22 PM

Re: Fascist Democracy
Good question Jimbo... But it has an easier solution than you might think. Though a gold and silver standard will have its problems, it is still the best economic system devised by man. It is the only just system that history has shown to work. Nothing on this earth is perfect, but a monetary standard fixed to a scarcely precious metal, that takes effort to mine and refine, thus it is produced on the free market, i.e., it is production and honest labor in and of itself, making it difficult to manipulate, is as close as you can come to a perfect system. Why do you think that the monetary powers go out of their way to belittle and denounce the gold standard?

Two things are the stalwarts of a free people: freedom of speech (mind) and property rights. A gold standard is the first step toward total property rights. If one does not own his own money (production) then he owns nothing, which is where we find ourselves today, being taxed a thousand ways, subject to the Federal Reserve Gestapo (IRS).

How can this be achieved? The first principle of freedom must be obeyed: freedom of speech (mind). In order for us to have found ourselves in the economic quandary that we find ourselves in, one thing had to have happened first: our minds and our speech had to be stolen from us. The media from the beginning of this country has been awash in corruption being controlled by the moneyed class. Today our educational facilities are controlled and manipulated by this same class. People are completely ignorant and totally ill equipped mentally to deal with monetary issues. Ask the average Joe what the Federal Reserve is and I doubt that he can give a sufficient answer. Even yet, ask him how it operates and I guarantee you that he will not know. The moneychangers have control of the media, so you won't find any answers there.

Have you ever heard the actions of the Fed or its Chairman, whoever that might be, as part of any type of public debate? Do you not think that this issue is a tad important? Instead we hear about the farce of Social Security being bankrupt or whether we are going to get 2 percent tax cut vs. a 3 percent tax cut.

Once the people are sufficiently educated on the important matters of the day, they can take action in various ways in order to secure their liberty (property rights). Open rebellion or a Constitutional Amendment are a few choices. That's right, "We the People" have the right to petition and amend our Constitution.

Jimbo 04-12-2006 07:32 PM

Re: Fascist Democracy
To Betray The Citizenry Is “Treasonous” - :-o :-o :-o

To Betray The Citizenry Is “Treasonous,” & It’s A Sin

Governments Create Money Which Creates “Poverty”

Yes, I agree, that sounds like a start. It worked before & it can work again. However, we still have other problems, created by society & their respective governments themselves, which only have a solution if we ever return to the “truth” standard, & revoke all of the “false” rights we have lived by throughout our past.

For example, no one has the moral authority to claim ownership of any piece of land just because they got there first, or because they have a piece of paper that makes it “legally” so. Originally, somebody had to kill & enforce authority afterwards in order to “remain” dutiful owner of that “stolen” property. The cost of property & the property taxes are making it impossible for most people to have their own space. Yet, you look around & it looks like there is plenty of room for everybody to have their own piece. Another example – plants & animals. All beings of the earth have an unalienable right to be able to plant & use anything they want for their own sustenance & survival. The soil, the “real” seeds, air, water, & the sun are a given, by God or the universe, if you choose not to believe in a God of all creation. Pretty soon we will not be able to live from either land or animals w/o either violating some law, or not being able to afford doing so.

Governments create money & their value. Then, money creates poverty, by just not having any. Thus governments create “poverty.” For a government to be effective, it should be their responsibility to make sure they create a system where everyone can at minimum, make an honest living. Right now in America there are no jobs for millions of Americans who have lost their jobs since Bush took office & because of the “Free Trade Agreements” w/ other nations. All of this is of course, is done in secret, & for the New World Order. No doubt about that. The only beneficiaries of this malevolous scheme are the world bankers, their controllers, the governments, & the owners, & controllers of those industries, & already established monopolies. Citizens are literally being left by the wayside. What they are doing is not only wrong, it’s immoral. After so many years of people working hard & saving money so that one day they can also have a piece they can call their own, to loose it all because now the rules where changed w/o you being considered part of that equation, is beyond unfair. To betray the Citizenry is “treasonous,” & it’s a sin.

The End of Dollar Hegemony

True Democracy's Check & Balances

Collapse Of US As A Super-Power

Are We Approaching A Coup D'etat On Freedom ???

Thank God for "Freedom Of Speech"...

HothSnake 04-12-2006 08:38 PM

Re: Fascist Democracy
I don't believe that it is the place of government to issue money at all.. Money is the rightful property of the people, and should be decided upon by the free market. The free market long ago decided that gold and silver should function as appropriate mediums of exchange. It was government that dissolved the system at the behest of the bankers, and replaced it with their monopoly money. Not due to any real failure of the system, but due soley on the manipulation of the moneychangers. Let the free market decide the value and nature of our money, which is a natrual process governed by natural laws. It is always fair, even if from our limited vantage point, it appears not to be so. Nature always seems to choose the best and most intelligent course according to universal law.

As to property rights, whether you like it or not, you are a physical being with a physical body (at least this is part of your being), so by definition you must occupy some amount of space, which you can call your own. Whatever you work for or on should be yours as well. No man should be denied the fruits of his labor without his willing consent. This should be decided by the free market as well. Whatever a man is willing to work for shall be his. Charity will be in sufficient supply to help those that are unable to work, but it should always be a voluntary measure. Government should have no say in it, except to protect the rights of the just within a free market economy.

All rights belong to the people, and not to any other imaginary entity, such as a government or a collective. All things eminate from the will of the sovereign individual to society and not the other way around. "We the People" decide our world.

I am convinced that REAL poverty would not exist under a totally free market system. The world has never known such a thing, but the few times that it came close were glorious.

You are correct in your assessment that government creates poverty. It is government that creates poverty and not capitalism, like is imagined by the ignorant and espoused by the illuminati. They give you fascism and then say, "look what capitalism has done."

Arjuna 04-12-2006 10:07 PM

Re: Fascist Democracy
Thanks for your input HothSnake.

Here is an excellent primer on why the elite like to fool the populace into believing the falsehood that intrinsically worthless fiat currencies are money:
I Want The Earth Plus 5%

A growing number of people are realizing that real money is preferable to fiat currencies. Priced in Federal Reserve Notes, gold is currently valued at about $600/oz and silver at $13/oz, the highest prices in about 25 years.

Also, the number of people choosing to do business with real money is increasing. This is an encouraging development, one that may someday lead to the elimination of fiat currencies altogehter.

e-gold is a convenient way to do business with gold or other precious metals. Here is e-gold's description of their money transaction system:

e-gold is an electronic currency, issued by e-gold Ltd., a Nevis corporation, 100% backed at all times by gold bullion in allocated storage.

Other e-metals are also issued: e-silver is 100% backed by silver, e-platinum is 100% backed by platinum, and e-palladium is 100% backed by palladium. However, the most popular e-metal (by an overwhelming margin) is e-gold.

e-gold is integrated into an account based payment system that empowers people to use gold as money. Specifically, the e-gold payment system enables people to Spend specified weights of gold to other e-gold accounts. Only the ownership changes - the gold in the treasury grade vault stays put.

e-gold is always as good as the gold it's backed with - this year, next year, a thousand years from now.

Pursuant to the e-gold Account User Agreement, the physical bullion that comprises the value backing e-gold must be insulated from physical, legal and political risks. Title is held by The e-gold Bullion Reserve Special Purpose Trust that exists for the express purpose of holding bullion for the exclusive benefit of all e-gold account holders collectively. The bullion is held in the form of certified good delivery bars in allocated storage at repositories certified by the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA). Metal is held free of any lien or encumbrance whatsoever and explicitly may not be attached to any liabilities of e-gold Ltd. or any other entity. No metal may be removed from storage or any other disposition made without the signatures of both e-gold Ltd. and a third party Escrow Agent of good reputation.

Another alternative to fiat currencies is The Liberty Dollar. The Liberty Dollar was created by Bernard von NotHaus. He says:

Remember when gas was only 25-cents a gallon? You could take a dollar down to the gas station and buy four gallons for a buck! At that time our dollar was backed by REAL money, real silver. Guess what? That same amount of silver still buys four gallons of gas! That just shows that real money like gold and silver holds its value and it is the green paper money that is now worth a lot less. As a matter of fact, when you think about it, you realize that gas, food, and almost everything else has NOT gotten more expensive. It only seems that way because the value of the green paper money is worth less and less and so it takes more and more of it to buy the same goods and services. Most people think prices have gone up, but in reality: it is the value of the US dollar that has actually gone down. Luckily, now there is a simple and profitable solution to the coming inflation - good old-fashioned, REAL money as the Founders intended.

Paul Harvey, a famous and respected radio journalist, said:

What's new? The Liberty Dollar! Fed Ex competes with the Post Office. So now there's the Liberty Dollar competing with the greenbacks printed by your government. The Liberty Dollar is backed by gold and silver. Yes, there's a competitive currency right here in the United States. In five years it has become the second most popular currency in America.

Here is a good article about the Liberty Dollar that was published today:

What is the cost of Liberty?

Someday you might find one -- a strange, shiny silver disc mixed in
with the loose change in the bottom of your purse or your pants
pocket. Hold it in your palm. It weighs in your hand like a bullet,
heavy and solid.

This is a silver $20 piece called a Liberty.

You can't take it to a bank and exchange it for "regular" money. You
can't pay your taxes with it. Try to spend it in a store and -- most
likely -- the cashier won't accept it.

That's because the Liberty Dollar is not money produced by the U.S.
Federal Reserve.

Instead, it's a privately produced form of currency -- backed by
silver and gold in an Idaho mint -- that some people in Western New
York feel passionate about.

"It boils down to honor and ethics," said Karl Reile, an Elma
resident who distributes Liberty money in the region. "Gold and
silver are universal money."

Others around the country share their views -- and are drawing
attention to them.

In Oregon, a gubernatorial candidate created a stir last month when
he insisted on paying his official filing fees in gold and silver.
Gordon Leitch said that if he's elected he'll make Oregon the first
state in the nation to return to the gold standard.

People who use Liberty money believe it will hold its value -- even
rise in value -- over time. In contrast, they think Federal Reserve
money is a false currency that will deflate in value because it is
backed by debt.

Others dispute the value of the Liberty.

"To be honest with you," said Dr. Mark P. Zaporowski, professor of
economics at Canisius College. "I think it's nonsense."

No doubt about it -- the Liberty has caused a good deal of commotion

In December two Derby men -- father and son Daniel and Shane Buczek -
- were arrested at HSBC Arena after a female relative with them
tried to spend a Liberty at a concession stand. The Buczeks' case is
pending in Buffalo City Court, although most of the charges against
them have been reduced or dismissed, said their attorney, James
Ostrowski, speaking for the pair.

The incident involving the Buczeks has turned a bright spotlight on
the below-the-radar use of "alternative" money in Western New York.

What is this stuff? Who uses it -- and why?

People who use this kind of currency said they they do it primarily
for economic reasons, not political or religious ones.

They believe they have found a monetary system that has value --
unlike the Federal Reserve coins and notes which most Americans use,
which have been backed by debt since the U.S. went off the gold
standard in the mid-20th century.

"My reasons are economic," said Daniel "Buck" Lewis, one local
Liberty user. "I'm not anti-government in any way."

Scott Leffler, a Lockport resident who hosts talk shows on WLVL AM-
1340, bought a few Liberty coins in November.

"For me, it's primarily curiosity," Leffler said. "Although in
general I think the less government the better. There isn't anything
written that says the federal government needs to be in the currency

Of course, there are downsides. The biggest one is that Liberty
currency -- which, besides the $20 silver and $500 gold coins,
includes silver-backed paper bills as well -- does not meet with
friendly acceptance at most places of business.

Still, it's not illegal, and it's not "counterfeit" money.

At the U.S. Secret Service offices in Buffalo, where federal
officials are charged with eradicating counterfeit money, agents
said the Liberty money is not an imitation of Federal Reserve money
and thus is not counterfeit currency.

"We had an agent that went over there (to HSBC Arena) and took a
look at these items," said Michael C. Bryant, special agent in
charge. "We evaluated that this was not a matter of counterfeiting.
It is not related to U.S. currency. Our expertise ends there."

Trading in Liberty dollars is a lot like bartering, Bryant said.

For example, you can legally trade socks for cheese if you want to,
as long as both parties to the transaction agree upon it, and nobody
can say anything about it.

The Liberty Dollar was developed six years ago by Bernard von
NotHaus, formerly a mintmaster at the Royal Hawaian Mint, who
decided to create an alternative form of currency backed by precious

Von NotHaus runs NORFED, the National Organization for the Repeal of
the Federal Reserve Act, which claims it has distributed $10 million
worth of Liberty money into the U.S. system.

On the Liberty Dollar website,, Von NotHaus
proclaims "Bernard's Law": "When the people own the money, they
control the government. When the government owns the money, it
controls the people."

Liberty dollars are inflation-proof, their proponents argue, in that
they are backed by stockpiles of silver and gold kept in a private
mint in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho.

"The Liberty Dollar is backed by something real," said Mike Johnson,
who works as vice president for sales and marketing at a local
company. "It seems to be innate in humans to want something with
real value -- not just a piece of paper with symbols on it. Money is
important. It's something we work hard for."

Dr. Zaporowski, the Canisius economist, said that "goldbugs" who
fixate on the country's elimination of the gold standard following
the privitization of American money in 1913 and after seem to be
behind alternative currencies like the Liberties.

"There are people who say we should return to that because inflation
would be under more control," the economist said. "Let's look at
inflation over the past 10 years: It's been very, very reasonable
and moderate."

The "gold standard" refers to the time in U.S. history when dollars
were backed by gold and silver. (Latter-day advocates for a return
to the gold standard included President Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp,
economists said.)

"Not all, but most economists would say that system was too rigid,"
said Dr. Zaporowski. "Do we really want zero inflation? I'm not so
sure of that."

Most businesses will not accept Liberties -- although some do by
accident, because they don't recognize them and assume they are a
form of Federal Reserve money.

That can cause confusion, as it apparently did at HSBC Arena when
the Buczek family tried to spend a Liberty piece.

According to Ostrowski, their attorney, the Buczeks did not force
the issue with the concession stand, instead paying with Federal
Reserve money and then returning to their seats. Security officials
approached them in their seats and an exchange ensued, the attorney

Some Liberty users said they have been able to spend them

"I use them all the time," said Lewis, who owns a local auto repair
shop. "But I don't try to spend it anywhere where I know it won't be
accepted. And I won't ever use it without telling people what it is.
I don't ever drop it down on the counter and just walk out."

Reile maintains a website -- --
which lists some businesses in the area which accept the Liberties.

He said he's trying to add businesses to the list, in an effort to
build a network of Liberty-friendly retailers throughout the region.

In the meantime, he said, he's trying to spread the word among
average people about how pleasant it can be to walk around with a
pocketful of heavy, shiny, silvery coins.

"I've worn so many pairs of pants out," he said, "let me tell you."

HothSnake 04-13-2006 06:31 PM

Re: Fascist Democracy

Remember when gas was only 25-cents a gallon? You could take a dollar down to the gas station and buy four gallons for a buck! At that time our dollar was backed by REAL money, real silver. Guess what? That same amount of silver still buys four gallons of gas! That just shows that real money like gold and silver holds its value and it is the green paper money that is now worth a lot less. As a matter of fact, when you think about it, you realize that gas, food, and almost everything else has NOT gotten more expensive. It only seems that way because the value of the green paper money is worth less and less and so it takes more and more of it to buy the same goods and services. Most people think prices have gone up, but in reality: it is the value of the US dollar that has actually gone down. Luckily, now there is a simple and profitable solution to the coming inflation - good old-fashioned, REAL money as the Founders intended.
Perhaps I should start buying my gas with Liberty Dollars. 8-) Coincidentally, according to the Currency Act of 1798 (still in effect by the way) a "dollar" is defined as a silver coin with 783 and one quarter grains of silver.


For the stark choice before us always is: gold (or silver), or government"-- Murray N. Rothbard

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