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-   -   Socialism in the US??? (http://www.clubconspiracy.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6712)

stompk 11-01-2008 08:40 AM

Socialism in the US???
 
What is socialism?

Have you seen the movie Sicko, by Michael Moore? It is very good, and it takes a hard look at socialist health care.

I lived in Sweden for a year, and experienced socialism. I feel it is a good thing. Free healthcare, better transportation systems, neat areas where you can grow a garden, etc.

And one would think the government could become too powerful, but it seems to me that the people still have a strong, if not stronger, say in what happens to their efforts.

In the US, we already have a form of socialismm. It's called social security. We all pay into a fund that we "should" all be able draw from at some time. When my father died, my mother received some social security for my sister and I until we turned 18. We much appreciated it.

Capitalism, to me, has become a method for the greedy to stay on top, while the "average Joe" receives less and less. The government has seperated itself from US and has taken the position that the wealth and prosperity of this country is theirs to distribute. How do they distribute it?

They give it to the wealthy (banks), so that the wealth can "lend" it to the rest of the citizens, whose taxes actually run this country. How did the wealthy get wealthy? First, by hording, and then by lending. So now, they are hording, and then they will lend, our money to us?

Doesn't anyone see the irony in this?

I think it's time to start caring for others, as much as we care for ourselves. And for God's sake, stop worshipping the rich. They are the ones who are in trouble.

Quote:

Socialism as an organized political movement in the United States began with utopian communities in the early 19th century and later became closely tied to the Socialist Labor Party (founded in 1876) and the Socialist Party of America (formed in 1901). Influenced by revolutionary European thinking and gaining momentum from distraught workers and oppressed minorities, the Socialist Party managed to successfully run hundreds of candidates for various positions around the nation for several decades. However, it faced severe government repression and eventually broke apart and declined in the 1920s

stompk 11-01-2008 08:41 AM

Re: So******m in the US???
 
justgroovy.

Why is the word so******m being censored? That is very strange.

justgroovy 11-01-2008 10:17 AM

Re: So******m in the US???
 
do me a favor and type it with spaces in between like this:

s t o m p k

because i can't tell what word you are using

justgroovy 11-01-2008 10:18 AM

Re: So******m in the US???
 
lol i know why

socialism contains the word cialis which is a censored word (just because it's a product that the spammers love to advertise) I'll go take it off of the list though. . .

stompk 11-01-2008 11:35 AM

Re: So******m in the US???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by justgroovy (Post 52639)
lol i know why

socialism contains the word cialis which is a censored word (just because it's a product that the spammers love to advertise) I'll go take it off of the list though. . .

Thanks for the fix!

BeenThereDoneThat 11-01-2008 06:00 PM

Re: Socialism in the US???
 
BA, maybe the Cialis thing was a sign, lol.

BlueAngel 11-01-2008 06:15 PM

Re: Socialism in the US???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BeenThereDoneThat (Post 52672)
BA, maybe the Cialis thing was a sign, lol.

Why are you stalking me?

The Old Medic 02-03-2009 01:34 PM

Re: Socialism in the US???
 
I have lived for a lot more than one year in socialist countries. I have studied the medical systems in several of them, including Sweden. ALL of them limit the care that can be provided. All of them deny certain kinds of care to their people.

I am also a citizen of a socialist country (Canada) as well as a citizen of the USA.

I would never want to see the medical system of the US become like that in Canada. There, you can wait 2-3-4-5 or even more years for an elective surgery (and the government determines what is "elective". My paternal grandmother died because her surgery was delayed by the government. She needed a hernia operation, but it was not considered to be "necessary". So, she ended up developing gangrene, and that killed her.

I do not want to see a system in this country where everyone has to have the same level of medical care, like Canada has. There is a reason why tens of thousands of Canadians come to the US every year to obtain medical treatment that they can not get in Canada. They are not all rich people either.

If you have massive facial scars, in Canada you may not be able to get plastic surgery at all, and if you do, iy will take years. After all, you can live with scars, right? Or like the primordial dwarf child in Ontario, that couldn't get any appropriate care anywhere in Canada. the condition is very rare, and her family had to come to the US (at their own expense) to gwet her the needed care.

Every province in Canada operates their own Medicare system, The benefits differ from one province to another (that would be like every State in the USA operating its own medical program. In 2007, the province of Alberta, (which is sparcely populated) ran a deficit of 1.8 billion dollars in their Medicare program, The result is reduced services and higher taxes. Just inagine every state running a program, like they run their Medicaid program,. In some states right now, they will not pay for any medical treatments to keep disabled people in their homes. Instead, they require that those people must be in nursing homes in order to get medicaid treatments.

Or take the states that refuse to purchase a power wheelchair for their disabled citizens, Yes, that actually happens. So, some of the families of those patients literally take them to a state that will purchase a power charir, and "dump them off" at a hospital. As soon as treir family member gets a power chair, they pick them up and take them home again.

That's what will happen if we get socialized medicine in the US.

Lots of people think that Socialized medicine is THE answer to our problems. They forget, that what the government provides, it also controls.

Take a look at Medicare in the US, or the VA Medical system. Medicare pays for about 30-40 percent of the real cost. Many people have lost their sabvings, etc. because of what Medicare does NOT pay for.

In the VA system, it is not uncommon to have to wait 6-9 months to see a specialist, to wait 2-3 hours (or more) at every scheduled appointment, to have significant limitations on the medications you can get, etc., etc. Many VA hospitals are closing their emergency rooms, because they just don't have the money to keep them open.

Congress may well decide to nationalize medical care in this country. But I can almost guarantee, that if they do, they will also put significant limitations on that medical care too.

Be very careful about what you wish for.

BlueAngel 02-03-2009 10:11 PM

Re: Socialism in the US???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The Old Medic (Post 54767)
I have lived for a lot more than one year in socialist countries. I have studied the medical systems in several of them, including Sweden. ALL of them limit the care that can be provided. All of them deny certain kinds of care to their people.

I am also a citizen of a socialist country (Canada) as well as a citizen of the USA.

I would never want to see the medical system of the US become like that in Canada. There, you can wait 2-3-4-5 or even more years for an elective surgery (and the government determines what is "elective". My paternal grandmother died because her surgery was delayed by the government. She needed a hernia operation, but it was not considered to be "necessary". So, she ended up developing gangrene, and that killed her.

I do not want to see a system in this country where everyone has to have the same level of medical care, like Canada has. There is a reason why tens of thousands of Canadians come to the US every year to obtain medical treatment that they can not get in Canada. They are not all rich people either.

If you have massive facial scars, in Canada you may not be able to get plastic surgery at all, and if you do, iy will take years. After all, you can live with scars, right? Or like the primordial dwarf child in Ontario, that couldn't get any appropriate care anywhere in Canada. the condition is very rare, and her family had to come to the US (at their own expense) to gwet her the needed care.

Every province in Canada operates their own Medicare system, The benefits differ from one province to another (that would be like every State in the USA operating its own medical program. In 2007, the province of Alberta, (which is sparcely populated) ran a deficit of 1.8 billion dollars in their Medicare program, The result is reduced services and higher taxes. Just inagine every state running a program, like they run their Medicaid program,. In some states right now, they will not pay for any medical treatments to keep disabled people in their homes. Instead, they require that those people must be in nursing homes in order to get medicaid treatments.

Or take the states that refuse to purchase a power wheelchair for their disabled citizens, Yes, that actually happens. So, some of the families of those patients literally take them to a state that will purchase a power charir, and "dump them off" at a hospital. As soon as treir family member gets a power chair, they pick them up and take them home again.

That's what will happen if we get socialized medicine in the US.

Lots of people think that Socialized medicine is THE answer to our problems. They forget, that what the government provides, it also controls.

Take a look at Medicare in the US, or the VA Medical system. Medicare pays for about 30-40 percent of the real cost. Many people have lost their sabvings, etc. because of what Medicare does NOT pay for.

In the VA system, it is not uncommon to have to wait 6-9 months to see a specialist, to wait 2-3 hours (or more) at every scheduled appointment, to have significant limitations on the medications you can get, etc., etc. Many VA hospitals are closing their emergency rooms, because they just don't have the money to keep them open.

Congress may well decide to nationalize medical care in this country. But I can almost guarantee, that if they do, they will also put significant limitations on that medical care too.

Be very careful about what you wish for.

I propose a health care system that provides for those who are unable to attain the same due to monetary inability and other extenuating circumstances, but not for every citizen in the entire country.

Private health insurance would remain available through employment and for those who are financially able to purchase it individually.

Revelation1217 03-17-2009 01:53 PM

Re: Socialism in the US???
 
What I do appreciate is that people on this forum are not afraid to express what they really think.


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