Club Conspiracy Forums

Club Conspiracy Forums (
-   General Conspiracy Discussion (
-   -   Muhammed or Jesus? (

Akbar 07-15-2005 02:16 PM

Muhammed or Jesus?
Who do you choose? When I read about Jesus in the Bible. It seems like the authors of the book are confused about who is Jesus. In one description he is a Prophet, another son of god, and another god. I conclude that the Bible is not actually talking about a person named Jesus. It is talking about the history of Christianity. The history of Christianity and it's struggle with understanding the word of God. The Bible actually descibes Jesus as the word of God, which is the true meaning. There is no evidence that a person lived named Jesus or any of the other Prophets for that matter. If so where are their relatives? So this brings us to Muhammed. He is the only Prophet that we have evidence ever lived. So this brings me to the realistic conclusion that all the other Prophets were only concepts of human evolution and that Muhammed was the complete make up of all of the Prophets into a human being. So God was building the perfect human being with the beginning of each Prophet until Muhamed was the final product. So there is no war between Jesus and Muhammed. Only the fools that say they follow them. If you are an intelligent believer then you will see that Muhammed is the Christ. Not the old Jesus who was just a concept, but he was the real human being who continues to cause miracles every day. So I choose both because you cannnot have one without the other.


Ahmad 07-15-2005 09:08 PM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
peace Akbar,

The only unforgivable sin is "idol-worship" which in the case of Jesus is claiming that he is the son of God, one aspect of idolatery is to make distinction between the prophets.

[2:136] Say, "We believe in GOD, and in what was sent down to us, and in what was sent down to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Patriarchs; and in what was given to Moses and Jesus, and all the prophets from their Lord. We make no distinction among any of them. To Him alone we are submitters."

Now what you are saying is that Muhammad was the perfect human, there is no such thing as a perfect human, only God is perfect. Quran mentions some mistakes he did and God guided him out.

Muhammad was the last prophet but that doesn't make him the best.


truebeliever 07-15-2005 10:15 PM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
Hello Ahmed.

I cant remember if i sent you an apolagy or not. If not, I apolagies for my outbursts.

Partly they were the result of poisening with "additives" to which i am extremely sensitive. Partly due to the usual finacial stressors of life and my aggressive nature which is nescessary for confronting power directly as I often do in my other endevours away from here...

I finally decided to be poor and do what I do best...unpaid work annoying those in power in my own way.

Anyway...It is a shame to see a split between Christianity and Islam. Why dont we agree to disagree?

I respect the best of Islamic culture. The worst is more often than not brought on by the covert and overt efforts of the so called "Christians" and extremist Zionist/Jewish elements.

Read Michael Ashers "The Real Bravo 2 Zero". A thorough discrediting of the COMPLETE tales written by the survivors of a failed foray into Iraq by the british SAS in 1991. The usual cliches of the Arabs are in the original books. Asher (former SAS himself & fluent Arabic speaker) puts all that in its place and gives a real account of the kindness and respect given to an adversary by the local militias who caught them.

Read too the accounts by John Pilger, respected journalist, who recounts how he felt safer walking the streets of Baghdad before the war and after crippling Western sanctions, than he did in the center of London. Again, respect and humility and people who did'nt even know who he was, begging this strange Westerner to tell the overfed Westerners of their suffering...and what suffering! And how many "innocent" Muslims have now been beaten and attacked in London?

No matter your religion or your adherence to it. To have your family wiped out by an "errant" bomb is hard to take lightly. I am not so sure I would'nt gladly be taking the lives of the invader myself when put through that. Maybe even putting a bomb on a bus to kill "innocents" who are so fat, lazy and stupid they will tolerate passively, the actions of their government, done in their name.

The "civilized" West could at least maintain their anger instead of awaiting the next organised for them protest rally, where they can have a nice walk in the sunshine and catch up for lattes after to discuss the latest home renovating techniques.

Innocence will get you killed. Fate, or God, does'nt tolerate innocence for 5 minutes. The times are too serious.

I agree Ahmed that Christianity suffers from a serious case of the "idolatries". They go to Christ as a "loving Father figure" who will hug them like Daddy never did and then they can all go home...saved?

Christ brought many things. A sword and great compassion. There are times to turn the other cheek and their are times to speak the truth loudly and boldly. The Christian Churches have subverted peoples energies away from the truth and into a warped and disempowered view of Christ. Christ was anything but passive victim. Christ forced people to look at themselves.

I have no problem with God incarnating into this world to offer up himself into unimaginable torture and death as an example of the deep personal love the UNKNOWABLE creator of the Universe has for individual human beings. Perhaps God was making up for his bad treatment of Job.

I agree wholeheartedly that at times we worship the cup instead of the life giving water itself.

Whatever the finer points of bible theology or whether Mohammed was mad in the end or sat on food while others starve lets take the books for what they are.

We can all disagree on many things and not kill each other. We are ALL made in the image of God and I'm sure Christ nor the Prophet Mohammed meant their words to justify misery and suffering.

I'd like to see a little more sword action and a little less peace action to right these wrongs. A sword is also the Intellect, the ability to tell fish from foul...we should weild it more often.

Ahmad 07-15-2005 11:14 PM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
peace TB,

welcome back! as for the apology, don't worry, peace is always possible.

I want to tell you that the idea of Judaism, Christianity and Islam as being separate religions is a satanic hoax, there has been always one religion called "Submission, the religiono f Abraham", but the people got biased to their prophets and books and thus got stuck each in the message given to them.

As you know Satan divides and God unites, God willing the walls built by Satan to divide us are going to fall very soon.

Also some people mix between the Islam as a universal religion and the Arab culture, the reason for the violence against civilians is some satanic sayings attributed falsly to Muhammad in the man-made books of Hadith (the equivelant of the Talmud), these sayings claim that Muhammad ordered the killing of the captives, this ofcourse contradict with Quran which advocates that charity goes to the captives untill they are freed or ransomed, also the Hadith advocates killing the disbeliever, while God says "There shall be no compulsion in religion".

As much as i feel sorry for the victims i know that it is because of disregarding God, God says that whatever bad happens to us, it's because of us. I also feel sorry for the youths who kill themselves and civilians because of the overwhelming injustices they experience, however i also feel sorry for the millions of westerners who are practically incapable of stopping their corrupt governments from agression!

So as you can see, the world is in a deep pit of misery and helplessness, and this needs a divine intervention which will come God willing on November, in the form of the Quake of all time, which all the scriptures warned of.


I have no problem with God incarnating into this world to offer up himself into unimaginable torture and death as an example of the deep personal love the UNKNOWABLE creator of the Universe has for individual human beings. Perhaps God was making up for his bad treatment of Job.

In all sincerity, i have to warn you against it. The issue of an offering presented to God was distorted by the Jews, they thought that the act of offering a good offering itself is capable of redeeming them, thus they focused on the offering instead of the feeling (the reverence of God) attached. Satan dragged them into ever offering better offerings, to the extent of burning their kids alive! (a historical fact) thinking that in this they will be surely redeemed. A prominent Jew later (Paul) later took the idea to the extreme, God offering His ONLY son to redeem all the people, (which is considered in the primitive thought as the best offering, the only male son). The truth is only YOU can redeem yourself by doing righteous work, there is no such thing as a free redemption (by accepting Jesus on the cross), Job suffered because of his following Satan, God is never unjust towards the people.

You noted a good point, the victim mentality the Christian world is being molded in through the story of the corss, Quran tells us that while forgivness is the best, it is not so when evil is unrepentant.

truebeliever 07-15-2005 11:40 PM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?

The truth is only YOU can redeem yourself by doing righteous work, there is no such thing as a free redemption
Could'nt agree more. In fact I need to say that again. I could'nt agree more.

Three hail Mary's and a quick sing song and I can return to my comfort zone. The reason why we're in the shit we're in.


Quran tells us that while forgivness is the best, it is not so when evil is unrepentant.
I'll give that to the Quaran.

There is true evil afoot. Awaiting the second coming in "real terms" is time to the devil. The second coming is RIGHT NOW.

Best to you Ahmed.

07-15-2005 11:52 PM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
Question, why was it necessary for God to bring the devil to his level and make such a bet against Job, when he knew that the guy had integrity, to me it sounds like being falible?
Or that most of the story it was from has been lost in time, deliberately or not, will we ever know?

Ahmad 07-21-2005 12:35 AM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
peace T,

I think your question is, why does God test us when He already knows our qualities?

If that's the question, here is an answer,

1- We were all living happily, totally satisfied with God's provisions in Heaven.

2- Untill one of the angels rebelled and refused to SERVE the Human being, Satan thought he is better than he, since God created him of some kind of energy (smokless fire) while man was made of clay.

3- Later Satan was given a chance to test Adam (and all of us), he said that the forbidden tree has the independent ability to grant him eternal life (thus he claimed the tree is a god), we unfortunately believed him and ate, at that point the visible dimension on earth became visible to us and the test began.

4- For eventhough Adam (and all of us) repented for that specific sin and God accepted our repentance for it, we still had remenants of doubt in God's absolute authority and posession of power, so God ordered all the rebells (Jinns and Humans) to go down, study and make up their minds on who is the real God, who is the real source of power (skills, beauty, knolwedge..etc) the creatures (Satan behind them) or God alone.

5- So Job was subjected to the same test and unfortunately he followed Satan temporarily and naturally Satan afflicted him with pain and suffering as he does always, but when Job realised his mistake, he said to God:

[38:41] Remember our servant Job: he called upon his Lord, "The devil has afflicted me with hardship and pain."

Becaue belief alone is not enough for judgment my friend, Paul tried to convince us that the law (deeds) are not important and that belief is enough!, the Jews on the contrary put the focus on the deeds, however the truth is deeds based on belief is the only thing that can redeem us.

So when Job refrained of transgression and returned to God and righteous work, God recompensed him.

[21:84] We responded to him, relieved his adversity, and restored his family for him, even twice as much. That was a mercy from us, and a reminder for the worshipers.

please feel free to read a more in-depth analysis of the story of Job here,


Dreak 07-21-2005 09:00 AM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?

Question here..could you name one thing that you can add unto Christs work that will save ( redeam ) you ?

Did God say " phew..that was rough..I did my all you guys have to do is A,B,C and then your saved ?

nope..he said " IT IS DONE ".

So now, when you "sin", you think you have to goto Mass ? goto confession ? If you think that way..then you truely dont believe in HIM.

"I did not come to destroy the word but to fulfill it".

Ahmad 07-21-2005 10:23 AM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
peace D,

Is this a Q or A?

Jesus was sent to the Jews to tell them that they lost the spirit of the law, now we have the two extremes the "law alone" Jew and the "belief alone" Christian, neither the Jewish law is completely true nor the Christian belief is. We gain redemption through righteous work based on belief in God alone.

When i sin, i turn to God and repent.


07-21-2005 10:38 AM

Re: Muhammed or Jesus?
thanks for the link AHMAD, I will check it out.
I don't post much to the theories of religeon, because I feel that I just don't know as much as a should by now, I do though like to read your thoughts on the topic though.

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:39 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.