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Old 11-21-2005, 03:54 AM
Posts: n/a
Default Re: The Eye and the Pyramid

Saturnino wrote:

You are again being evasive. Those oaths of "telling the truth" are not allegiance oaths. They don't put you under the authority of anybody. Very different from:

"...binding myself under no less penalty than that of having my breast torn open, my heart plucked out and placed on the highest pinnacle of the temple, there to be devoured by the vultures of the air."

- oath taken by 2nd degree Masons
That depends on what ritual you read?

And prior to any obligation is taken the lodge makes a vow to you

WM: Brother ____, before you can proceed further in Freemasonry, it will be necessary for you to take an Obligation appertaining to this degree. It becomes my duty, as well as pleasure, to inform you, that there is nothing contained in the Obligation that conflicts with the duties you owe to God, your country, your neighbor, your family, or yourself. With this assurance on my part, are you willing to take the Obligation?
Firstly if anything of Freemasonry goes against, your faith, country, neighbour, family of yourself, the obligation becomes null and void.

What you obligate yourself to do is

keep and conceal and never reveal any of the secrets belonging to the Degree of Fellow Craft
Which in short, is two words, two grips and a posture.

The obligation is in the form of a promise

I do promise and swear
Not to god, merely on the merit of your own word.

This is why I do not see a difference. I've taken the oaths, I've been reading the rituals a long time and yes you can twist and read extra into them all day long, but in reality it depends what is in the heart of the man taking it, and what it means to him.

A Christian says he will tell the truth because of his character and because he represents Jesus on earth, not because of fear of atrocities.
Like I said the penalties are symbolic, the same as the childrens rhyme I qouted, but this seems to be side stepped and ignored.

A mason obligates himself by his WORD, by his saying "I will not tell" and to emphasise the strength of his word symbolically says if I break my word you can punish me, it is not meant as Freemasonry saying if you leak the info we'll do this to you, it is the Freemason saying I am true to my word that if I were to leak the info you could do this.

The obligation is taken parrot fashion, in the present tense. It is all "I" and not "You" basic grammer denotes this is the person and not the Fraternity.

Bondi, I can't believe you don't see the difference.
Like I said above, I see no difference. You swear on a bible, you are swearing to the Christian god, and according to a previous comment, anything other than a Yes or No is not allowed.

If what the previous person has said is wrong, fair enough. If my interpretation of what they are saying is wrong fair enough, but the let your yes be yes, to me, means give your word by your own character, and don't use the name of god to emphasise it.

Freemasons don't, for sure I can't I'm not a Christian so how, or why, I would swear using that I do not know.

I am accused of being evasive, because I can't answer a question that is not correct.

The obligation of a Freemason is not one of allegiance, but a mans word not to let the secrets out, it binds you to nothing else.

It is the information I give that is evaded and ignored.
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