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Old 04-12-2006, 10:07 PM
Arjuna Arjuna is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 109
Default Re: Fascist Democracy

Thanks for your input HothSnake.

Here is an excellent primer on why the elite like to fool the populace into believing the falsehood that intrinsically worthless fiat currencies are money:
I Want The Earth Plus 5%

A growing number of people are realizing that real money is preferable to fiat currencies. Priced in Federal Reserve Notes, gold is currently valued at about $600/oz and silver at $13/oz, the highest prices in about 25 years.

Also, the number of people choosing to do business with real money is increasing. This is an encouraging development, one that may someday lead to the elimination of fiat currencies altogehter.

e-gold is a convenient way to do business with gold or other precious metals. Here is e-gold's description of their money transaction system:

e-gold is an electronic currency, issued by e-gold Ltd., a Nevis corporation, 100% backed at all times by gold bullion in allocated storage.

Other e-metals are also issued: e-silver is 100% backed by silver, e-platinum is 100% backed by platinum, and e-palladium is 100% backed by palladium. However, the most popular e-metal (by an overwhelming margin) is e-gold.

e-gold is integrated into an account based payment system that empowers people to use gold as money. Specifically, the e-gold payment system enables people to Spend specified weights of gold to other e-gold accounts. Only the ownership changes - the gold in the treasury grade vault stays put.

e-gold is always as good as the gold it's backed with - this year, next year, a thousand years from now.

Pursuant to the e-gold Account User Agreement, the physical bullion that comprises the value backing e-gold must be insulated from physical, legal and political risks. Title is held by The e-gold Bullion Reserve Special Purpose Trust that exists for the express purpose of holding bullion for the exclusive benefit of all e-gold account holders collectively. The bullion is held in the form of certified good delivery bars in allocated storage at repositories certified by the London Bullion Market Association (LBMA). Metal is held free of any lien or encumbrance whatsoever and explicitly may not be attached to any liabilities of e-gold Ltd. or any other entity. No metal may be removed from storage or any other disposition made without the signatures of both e-gold Ltd. and a third party Escrow Agent of good reputation.

Another alternative to fiat currencies is The Liberty Dollar. The Liberty Dollar was created by Bernard von NotHaus. He says:

Remember when gas was only 25-cents a gallon? You could take a dollar down to the gas station and buy four gallons for a buck! At that time our dollar was backed by REAL money, real silver. Guess what? That same amount of silver still buys four gallons of gas! That just shows that real money like gold and silver holds its value and it is the green paper money that is now worth a lot less. As a matter of fact, when you think about it, you realize that gas, food, and almost everything else has NOT gotten more expensive. It only seems that way because the value of the green paper money is worth less and less and so it takes more and more of it to buy the same goods and services. Most people think prices have gone up, but in reality: it is the value of the US dollar that has actually gone down. Luckily, now there is a simple and profitable solution to the coming inflation - good old-fashioned, REAL money as the Founders intended.

Paul Harvey, a famous and respected radio journalist, said:

What's new? The Liberty Dollar! Fed Ex competes with the Post Office. So now there's the Liberty Dollar competing with the greenbacks printed by your government. The Liberty Dollar is backed by gold and silver. Yes, there's a competitive currency right here in the United States. In five years it has become the second most popular currency in America.

Here is a good article about the Liberty Dollar that was published today:

What is the cost of Liberty?

Someday you might find one -- a strange, shiny silver disc mixed in
with the loose change in the bottom of your purse or your pants
pocket. Hold it in your palm. It weighs in your hand like a bullet,
heavy and solid.

This is a silver $20 piece called a Liberty.

You can't take it to a bank and exchange it for "regular" money. You
can't pay your taxes with it. Try to spend it in a store and -- most
likely -- the cashier won't accept it.

That's because the Liberty Dollar is not money produced by the U.S.
Federal Reserve.

Instead, it's a privately produced form of currency -- backed by
silver and gold in an Idaho mint -- that some people in Western New
York feel passionate about.

"It boils down to honor and ethics," said Karl Reile, an Elma
resident who distributes Liberty money in the region. "Gold and
silver are universal money."

Others around the country share their views -- and are drawing
attention to them.

In Oregon, a gubernatorial candidate created a stir last month when
he insisted on paying his official filing fees in gold and silver.
Gordon Leitch said that if he's elected he'll make Oregon the first
state in the nation to return to the gold standard.

People who use Liberty money believe it will hold its value -- even
rise in value -- over time. In contrast, they think Federal Reserve
money is a false currency that will deflate in value because it is
backed by debt.

Others dispute the value of the Liberty.

"To be honest with you," said Dr. Mark P. Zaporowski, professor of
economics at Canisius College. "I think it's nonsense."

No doubt about it -- the Liberty has caused a good deal of commotion

In December two Derby men -- father and son Daniel and Shane Buczek -
- were arrested at HSBC Arena after a female relative with them
tried to spend a Liberty at a concession stand. The Buczeks' case is
pending in Buffalo City Court, although most of the charges against
them have been reduced or dismissed, said their attorney, James
Ostrowski, speaking for the pair.

The incident involving the Buczeks has turned a bright spotlight on
the below-the-radar use of "alternative" money in Western New York.

What is this stuff? Who uses it -- and why?

People who use this kind of currency said they they do it primarily
for economic reasons, not political or religious ones.

They believe they have found a monetary system that has value --
unlike the Federal Reserve coins and notes which most Americans use,
which have been backed by debt since the U.S. went off the gold
standard in the mid-20th century.

"My reasons are economic," said Daniel "Buck" Lewis, one local
Liberty user. "I'm not anti-government in any way."

Scott Leffler, a Lockport resident who hosts talk shows on WLVL AM-
1340, bought a few Liberty coins in November.

"For me, it's primarily curiosity," Leffler said. "Although in
general I think the less government the better. There isn't anything
written that says the federal government needs to be in the currency

Of course, there are downsides. The biggest one is that Liberty
currency -- which, besides the $20 silver and $500 gold coins,
includes silver-backed paper bills as well -- does not meet with
friendly acceptance at most places of business.

Still, it's not illegal, and it's not "counterfeit" money.

At the U.S. Secret Service offices in Buffalo, where federal
officials are charged with eradicating counterfeit money, agents
said the Liberty money is not an imitation of Federal Reserve money
and thus is not counterfeit currency.

"We had an agent that went over there (to HSBC Arena) and took a
look at these items," said Michael C. Bryant, special agent in
charge. "We evaluated that this was not a matter of counterfeiting.
It is not related to U.S. currency. Our expertise ends there."

Trading in Liberty dollars is a lot like bartering, Bryant said.

For example, you can legally trade socks for cheese if you want to,
as long as both parties to the transaction agree upon it, and nobody
can say anything about it.

The Liberty Dollar was developed six years ago by Bernard von
NotHaus, formerly a mintmaster at the Royal Hawaian Mint, who
decided to create an alternative form of currency backed by precious

Von NotHaus runs NORFED, the National Organization for the Repeal of
the Federal Reserve Act, which claims it has distributed $10 million
worth of Liberty money into the U.S. system.

On the Liberty Dollar website,, Von NotHaus
proclaims "Bernard's Law": "When the people own the money, they
control the government. When the government owns the money, it
controls the people."

Liberty dollars are inflation-proof, their proponents argue, in that
they are backed by stockpiles of silver and gold kept in a private
mint in Coeur d' Alene, Idaho.

"The Liberty Dollar is backed by something real," said Mike Johnson,
who works as vice president for sales and marketing at a local
company. "It seems to be innate in humans to want something with
real value -- not just a piece of paper with symbols on it. Money is
important. It's something we work hard for."

Dr. Zaporowski, the Canisius economist, said that "goldbugs" who
fixate on the country's elimination of the gold standard following
the privitization of American money in 1913 and after seem to be
behind alternative currencies like the Liberties.

"There are people who say we should return to that because inflation
would be under more control," the economist said. "Let's look at
inflation over the past 10 years: It's been very, very reasonable
and moderate."

The "gold standard" refers to the time in U.S. history when dollars
were backed by gold and silver. (Latter-day advocates for a return
to the gold standard included President Ronald Reagan and Jack Kemp,
economists said.)

"Not all, but most economists would say that system was too rigid,"
said Dr. Zaporowski. "Do we really want zero inflation? I'm not so
sure of that."

Most businesses will not accept Liberties -- although some do by
accident, because they don't recognize them and assume they are a
form of Federal Reserve money.

That can cause confusion, as it apparently did at HSBC Arena when
the Buczek family tried to spend a Liberty piece.

According to Ostrowski, their attorney, the Buczeks did not force
the issue with the concession stand, instead paying with Federal
Reserve money and then returning to their seats. Security officials
approached them in their seats and an exchange ensued, the attorney

Some Liberty users said they have been able to spend them

"I use them all the time," said Lewis, who owns a local auto repair
shop. "But I don't try to spend it anywhere where I know it won't be
accepted. And I won't ever use it without telling people what it is.
I don't ever drop it down on the counter and just walk out."

Reile maintains a website -- --
which lists some businesses in the area which accept the Liberties.

He said he's trying to add businesses to the list, in an effort to
build a network of Liberty-friendly retailers throughout the region.

In the meantime, he said, he's trying to spread the word among
average people about how pleasant it can be to walk around with a
pocketful of heavy, shiny, silvery coins.

"I've worn so many pairs of pants out," he said, "let me tell you."
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