11-03-2009, 10:25 PM
Join Date: May 2007
Re: Illuminati hierarcy
Originally Posted by makaveli
Some time ago I posted a tread called rotschild family vs the royal famalies trying to spark a discussion about the Illuminati hierarcy. Unfortunatly I was quite dissapointed with the attitude of many people. I'll try to revive a discussion about the hierarcy again, but first lets adress some issueses.
1. Some people say it's useless to discuss this and to speculate as speculation is just a waste of time. I completly dissagree. I believe that we as conspiracy theorists have gained lots of knowledge and facts over the years that point out to anomolies. If we think from a scenario based perspective we could see how a certain scenario dovetails (hope I say this well) with the gathered evidences. For example if we have seen that FED, Bilderberg CFR are the primary components of the Illuminati a scenario that would say the Rothshilds are the head of the illuminati would fit perfectly with our gathered information as they are involved in all one way or another. However if we come up with evidences that seem to point out to a pre 18th centuary existence of the illuminati (leonarda davinci, ancient egypt, john dee, francis bacon, rosicruxianism, hesse, templars etc) then the Rothshildscenario doesn't fit unless they have taken over the game. This would mean that other elements of the Illuminati would show hostile sentiments towards the Rothshilds and that means we should atleast find some evidences (atleast circumstancial) that that would be the case. If we explore all possibilities and allow each person to enter the discussion and someone oversees such a discussion we could finaly eliminate the disinformation hocus spocus stories and narrow the possibilites down to a few.
2. Some people say that its more important to focus on here and now then on the past and try to figure out who controls who. I believe in order to focus on here and now we NEED to expore the past to find out what happened. Once we do that and come up with a few possibilites then we can better anticipate what is going to happen. For example if the Rotschilds run the game then we can expect religions destroyed (perhaps judaism not) and replaced with a atheistic bankrunned world. If we believe the royals run the game then we can expect people like prince charles or william being presented as messianic leaders bringing peace to the middle east and winning the hearts of the public. If aliens run we can expect an coming alien invasion etc.
3. Such a discussion needs to happen under the rule that every opinion is backed by arguments (preferrred are factual evidences which can be researched by everyone so not "I saw a alien shapeshifting" cause that information is useless to other who believe you are a disinformation agent). For example if the tread I started in which I tried to discuss the who is serving who (royals and rothschild) I tried to balance the discussion by saying this:
I still am not convinced of who is the bigger only speculations in our minds I guess???
Altough I love to agree with the fact that the bankers are on top there are things that cannot be ignored:
The U.S. is still a British ColonyIlluminati News :: Queen of England Receives Most of US Taxes!Myth #5. The Federal Reserve is owned and controlled by foreigners
For those that are investing these things if the US still is a colony of england then that would explain the taxpayement to the queen and the fed robbing peoples money.
If this would be the known list of shareholders of the fed:
Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin
Lazard Brothers Banks of Paris
Israel Moses Seif Banks of Italy
Warburg Bank of Hamburg and Amsterdam
Lehman Brothers of New York
Kuhn, Loeb Bank of New York
Chase Manhatten Bank
Goldman, Sachs of New York.
........then really would the average american person actually care about this list? They probably got it to bussy listening to lil wayne or watching their favourite episode of friends. But what if the queen of england would be on that list??? There is no doubt in my mind that that would eventually spark another revolution all over again. So why is it so farfetched to think that the bankers work for the queen as a buffer to keep the illusion going?
One other thing is if the queen is on top the bankers are there to serve her then that means the bankers have a purpose. If the bankers are on top and the queen is there to serve them that how is she serving them??? She doesn't serve any purpose at all and I don't understand why they would want her to remain involved. And she is involved of course considering the fact for example that she is sending her workers to work for the cargyle groupe. The queen still has lotsof power and if a royal would be succeeded by a rich banker in the position of the allmighty puppeteer why doesn't she go on war with them to gain her position back? If a rothschild is assasinted then who cares she could easily pull it off. If the queen is assasinated well I don't even need to tell you that that is out of the question so that is leaving the royals is a position of advantage. They only have to say NO to them and thats it what are they going to do kill them all??? Yeah rite all royals death in on day I don't see it happen.
So again I;m not saying anyone is superiour I'm just trying to balance out the tread cause it seems like lots of people point out the bankers and seem to ignore lots of other facts.
The response by blue angel was:
The Money Masters are the CONTROLLERS and not the Queen of England.
The Rothschild family are at the top.
Try reading the quotes by atoms.2008.
This in my opinion isn't good enough. You should make more effort, this is just bluntly stating those who seem to be head of the banks run everything. The quotes by atom.2008 include quotes by us presidents talking about how the financial element controlls the bank. This information is good, and might be truth, but who controlls the financial element? The Rothschilds? The FED is the american equelevant of the Bank of England, which dates back to William III of Orange and was based on the Amsterdam Wisselbank. Both William and the Amsterdam bank predate the Rothschilds by many years yet they are the origin of the FED system. Freemasonry (one rothschild was offical member) predate the wealth of the Rothschilds. Many members of the Pilgrim Society (of which english royals are patrons) have been governors of the Bank of England. So have been the Rothschilds and Morgan and Rockerfeller elements. So we are just going to ignore these FACTS? Please understand that for a serious debate we MUST include all gathered facts and evidences and not just dismiss some because that would imply a conspiracy predating the Rothschilds. Notice that I'm not trying to say that TODAY the rothschilds aren't running the game, I'm just saying if I personally look at the evidences I see a pattern going back to pre-Rothschild history and I like to see what other people think and most importantly WHY they believe that to be the truth. If everyone does that that at least halve of the different stories will be eliminated cause there is only ONE truth.
There are certain other industries that aid in the destruction of society, such as the music industry, entertainment industry, media, etc., and these are controlled by the DESTROYERS and those who work towards these means for them whether knowingly or unknowingly.
Just as the Money Masters control the wealth of the world, certain others control the wealth of other lucrative fields.
In this sense, the puppets within these industries help to further the DESTROYER's agenda to weaken the fabric of America and are bestowed with fortune and/or fame for doing so.
Again I just a see a statement that others in other fields a subservient to the so called moneymasters (rothschilds) without any evidence. I'm sorry but we can't take this seriously unless we see more information.
Some people will do anything for money.
There are many industries that amass great fortune and this fortune stays within a select group, but, at the top, are the Money Masters who control the wealth of the world.
Again a statement without facts or lateral though backing it up.
This also means you can't just go and say that the jesuits controll everything because your bible in your opinion foretold it. It might be truth, but if its truth there need to be evidences that the jesuits run the whole thing and these need to be presented. Sure they are involved but are they really on top and why do you believe this. This means that the ideas of 'Theonewillcome' need to be furter explained and supported by good arguments. For those who don't believe in the Bible 'it is prophecised by the bible' isn't a good argument. If it's truth please come forward and show in depth details.
4. Its not neccecary to completely destroy eachother on our believes and its not even neccecary to come to a definitive conclusion. When we discuss the upper levels, speculation and personal preferences will be present because the facts are lacking. But even then we can apply lateral thought to support our ideas.
To avoid any misunderstanding I'll first state my personal believe: I believe the Royals families of Europe (most notable brittish) run the entire game and they'll fake a alien invasion/second coming to inaugurated the New Order of the Ages. (I assume you noticed this already)
Now that that's out of the way I'll say what I personaly believe should be done now. We should NOT start fiercly discussing who's running who's but rather why should use this thread to identify the aspects and components of the current Illuminati and try to 'map' the entire thing. For example let me start:
1. Nonhuman non devine species (extraterrestials, interdemensial extraterrestials, reptilians)
2. Nonhuman devine/religious species (demons, devils misguided angels)
3. Royalty (European)
6. Secret Societies
I believe this seems to be all the suspects please notify me if I have missed some. After we have made an entire list of the current suspects we can start creating subclasses. For example with Royalty that would be: Stuarts, Hanoverian royals, Orange dynasty, Hesse-kassel etc. and with bankers that would be: Rothschilds, Shiffer, Rockerfellers, FED, Venetion olicharcy etc.
After that I personaly believe we should create different forums for each catogorie and everone can easily find information well organisated on this board.
So please respond if you:
1. believe this idea sucks and please try to explain why
2. believe its a good idea won't participate and please explain why
3. believe its a good idea and would like to participate
Please avoid frivilious debate on who is a disinformation and who is not. This will eventually become appearant as we elevate or retoric to a higher intelectual platform. Please stay humble and don't insult, cause I believe thats the key to a fruitfull discussion. OK here we go.... hope it becomes something nice!
(pardon my bad english)
So sorry that the members of this forum disappointed you, but, I'm glad to see that your disappointment in us hasn't discouraged you from posting.