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Old 12-23-2004, 11:03 PM
lynns_shadow lynns_shadow is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2004
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Default Re: 11 Christians Facing 47 Years In Prison For Preaching The Scripture At Gay Pride Parade

freeman it is late and I am spending too much time here, but I will try to reply..

You say:

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As I said, Lynn, I knew I would be expressing a controversial viewpoint on this issue, but I am not backing down. That's okay, hit me with your best shot. I can take it, and I really need to work this through with people whose opinions I respect.
That's great freeman. Just that I don't "hit" people. It may seem that, it can be tiring defending one's self, particularly in a forum where one might not expect such things..I'll be happy to reply as I can.

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I believe the militant, dominionist brand of Christian Right tactics employed by charlatans such as Falwell, Robertson, etc. has done more to discredit real Christian values than the NWO opposition ever could have accomplished on their own.
Agreed. If people gauge "Christians" as a whole by simply all of them we'd be in for troubles.
I'd like to think people who are truly seeking Christ look for more. I did..And I was really blessed by my Husband's comments as well

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It is no small wonder to me that acts of volence (bombings and murders of abortion workers) and characters like Eric Rudolph have emerged from this morass of self-righteous subversion.
Sorry, I have no idea who that is. What is "self-righteoues subversion"? Is that like Liberalism. I find the secularism that is linked to quite subversive. Morass, I don;t think you are referring to even close to any slight majority in the Chrisiran ranks, freeman, actually.

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Further, I am not convinced that as a Christian I am required to hate homosexuals or even protest homosexuality in general.
Ok I agree there. But you are makinga grand erroneous presumption in that comment alone. You are suggesting we Christians "hate".This is untrue.

If you have a child or a loved nephew and you see him running with wild abandon into a fiery oven, do you not run and grab him away? Do you stop and think "Oh I may offend him" or "Oh he enjoys this let me say and do nothing". No, out of love yous top him. Out of love you let him know he is hurting hinself. Out of love you risk his dislike and annoyance for his betterment.

Aren't you being "hate-ful", restrictive? No.
You are simply letting him know the truth and right from wrong. Period.You are loving him so much, you're willing to be unpopualr with him to share what he deep down knows is true and for his best.

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These were Old Testament and largely Talmudic taboos.
Homosexuality is much more than a "taboo" it is a sin. Sir, you are correct in this, both the Old and New Testament, in other words the whole Bible, shares the sin of homosexual actiivities is wrong. And yes an entire city burned for this. It wa scalled Sodom and Gomorrah. From which we get the word sodomy, or sodomite, what gay mendo to each other and what a gay man is.

I know in your country this fact may be blotted out by a sodomizing government. It makes God's truth on it and His Word about it no less true freeman.

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Jesus founded the Christian faith on only two commandments: "Love God with all of your heart, soul and mind, and love your neighbor as yourself."
Ok, got you there..But Christ and the Christian "faith" are not limited to only 2 commandments freeman. But for the sake of your point I will let that be.

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Maybe I missed the part where he said to love only your heterosexual neighbor, but I doubt it.
I wholelly agree. I think the gay men and women are, if it is indeed possible, to be loved more than anyone else into the Kingdom of God. They are the hurting parties that are used as dupes and pawns for Satan's advantage to bring about changes that will ruin society, and do them, and are doing, countless others, tremendous harm.

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Why didn't Jesus stone the adulterous woman, if he was really on board with this "Moral Majority" dogma?
freeman, seeing a thing as wrong and calling it wrong is not akin to "stoning" an adulterer or "on board" with "this moral majority dogma" (I don't really understand what that means. Or what you mean in this context.

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Further, the vision of the clean and unclean meats by St. Peter speaks toward this whole notion of Christians being bound by every commandment and law of the Old Testament. After all, you don't plan on sacrificing an ox any time soon, right?
No, it means don't let minor differences infaith be a stumbling block, freeman. It was actually specifically referring to meats and shellfish, pork and the like. I hardly call a contrast between meat-eaters and vegans one to be contrasted with sodomy and perversions,freeman.

The moment we quit wanting what God says, what God wants, thinking His thoughts, they win. It is that simple. It may sem incremental ,but it;s true.

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What I DO hate are the efforts of the NWO/Illuminati to use homosexuality as another tool to undermine and corrupt traditional family structures and values, the same as feminism, promiscuity, substance abuse, etc.
Agreed

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When they start to encourage homosexuality as not just an alternative but a PREFERABLE lifestyle, that is what gets my dander up.
Agreed. Absolutely, agreed.

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But much like the Jewish people, I feel that homosexuals are pawn themselves in this evil game.
Pawns, yes. But this "game" is out there for all and any who do not resist.

They should be dealt with with much love and kindness. But I am never truly loving anyone by shutting blind eyes to their sin and not letting them know better. Am I "judgeing" them? I am letting then know and reminding them about right from wrong, for their Eternal welfare.

1Corinthians 13 says "Love" "rejoices in the Truth".

I never truly am loving with anyone if I can't and don't let them know the truth, in love.

I kind of see the Christians and Orthodox Jews, but eventually, mainly, the Christians being the target here, freeman.

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From my own personal observation and experience, there is no doubt in my mind that a certain percentage of people (probably less than 10, I agree with Dr. Makow) are born with homosexual orientation.
Less, I am sure.But they are aiming higher. Ok I am not disagreeing here.

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My own cousin was an example. He had totally normal parents, no trauma in his upbringing, but he always displayed effeminate, homosexual tendencies.
Mine too. He died of Aids in 1992. Though not awfully effeminate, very slightly, almost negligable. We were pretty close. He was my Father's God-son.

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My mother lived with his parents (her brother and sister-in-law) before she was married, and she could attest to these facts.
Ok..

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The boy struggled through high school, trying to "pass" even to the point of dating one or two girls, but when he finally went off to college, he decided it was time to "come out" and confront his parents. Their repsonse was pure kneejerk, fundamentalist Christianity. They threw him out of the house, rejected him as a son for many years and covered up the whole incident with the rest of the family.
I'm sorry for that.Ok..

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Hating is not a Christian principle, whether we are hating gay people individually or collectively as the homosexual community
.

Tht is true freeman.

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The subborners of Christianity encourage these divisions the same as they exacerbate any of their Hegelian conflicts. By reducing Christians to a level as mean-spirited and contentious as the forces of Satan, they reduce us to their level and cause Christians to lose respect universally.
No that is a given,actually. God's Word says we will be hated for His sake. Actually, freeman, it says the world will nate us for His sake.

I don't know about Hegel. I think, no I know, Christians are consistently cut downa nd undermined by them. We live with it always.

My Husband lost a job the week before Thanksgiving for being a Christian. For "mentioning God" "a bit too much".He is the most loving man, and human being, I know.
A most kind and unobnoxious person in his faith and life.

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I AM saying that we have to be careful how we approach the battle, and that we should never fail to express love and understanding for all of God's children and their differences, as well as their similarities.
Seems, from what I am gleaning, they love to "play" us all, freeman. I think you're right, and I do agree about not failing to be loving and kind to all.

One of the most difficult things is we are asked to love our enemies. I don't find gays in any away an "enemy". Though these dark powers seek to make them think we are their enemy.

But, as I said, they seek to make us look ugly and small to the world. So they may offer a different vision.

That was my point.

It doesn't end for us.

But,God is greater.

I'd like to share with you a poem I wrote about my cousin, who was also gay,like yours. His name was Keith.
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To forgive is
to set a prisoner free and discover the prisoner was you..
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