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Old 07-14-2005, 12:36 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,768
Default Re: Physics Forum against free speech

From the Physics Forum...

G'Day Russ.

I worked for many years in "Fire Assay"...that is melting stuff in 1300c firnaces to see what was in them.

I also transfered into Shotfiring where I got to blow things up on a regular basis including packing plastic type explosive - "Power Gel" - around objects to blast them apart and make the way clear for large vehicles.

You soon learn the power of explosives as you can make them cut like a knife through objects of any sought.

Anyway...i watched that building fall. What cant be explained to me is it's symmetrical collapse. How could metal POSSIBLY fail in such a symmetrical fashion? I note that the central core went first as is evident by the video and the "penthous" failing first.

I know what heat does Russ. I know that a few fires, which were only just visible, whether fueled by a bit of deisel or not, are EXTREMELY unlikely to "weaken" support core structures to that extent in THAT short a time.

Large metal beams can dissapait heat easily. If it was that easy to "melt" or "weaken" metal to such a point then I guess we can dispense with the well insulated metal furnaces i used to use and the high pressure natural gas feed and just chuck some deisel on top of the samples I used to melt.

Please keep your arrogant and paternalistic tone to yourself.

You find the fact that finding out how such a large metal structure collapsed...is somehow a waste of time and bothersome?

I guess you must work at NASA as they seem to have the same attitude when it comes to probing into the causes of things.

I am interested in hearing from people involved in the metal trade, particularly those involved in fatuige testing metal materials...if they come here.

I appreciate your input Russ but can you please bottle the paternalistic tone.

I want to know how that building collapsed. We saw other buildings TRASHED by WTC debris which were kind enough to remain standing and indeed retain there structural integrity enough to be rebuilt.

I know what the heat requirements are to weaken metal and join points.

And as for your claim that the reports mentioned 5-6 floors had CRITICAL structural members which were on fire, this in NO way explains the symetrical and catastrophic collapse of WTC 7. In NO WAY does this explain it.

In fact they cant explain it Russ. Thats the point. All your arguments are null and void as in the end the reports DO NOT claim to know the cause.

"They" cannot help. Can anyone else here?
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Dear Russ,

This is off point but it is one you have made with some certainty.

You claim fire fighters in Building 7 reported that the fires were such that the building was in danger of collapsing.

Fine.

You seem to trust the opinion of firefighters.

In that case we seem to have a problem of sorts with your logic.

It is WELL reported and ON THE RECORD that firefighters in the towers reported small fires that would be easily contained and extinguished. It is also ON THE RECORD that not ONE firefighter believed there was ANY chance of those buildings collapsing. Minutes later the first of the Towers suffered a catastrophic collapse.

Which will it be?

Or will you simply be picking and choosing your line of thought to suit yourself?

And by the way...i do not appreciate being accused of being a "whacky conspiricy theorist" because I WANT TO KNOW how those buildings collapsed. ESPECIALLY BUILDING 7.

And why we're on the subject of fire fighters opinions, you are aware of the fact the the premiere firefighting magazine called the report..."a half baked farce".

I demand answers. Thats why I'm here.

And here I edit again...to question your logic...what exactly was burning in those buildings to make large steel girders buckle? To make bolts the size of my fist and weld joints split and crack? Carpet? Wooden furniture? Deisel?

Diesel is a relatively LOW volatility fuel but if it were feeding those fires we would have seen a fire ball in short order...agreed? Or is there some other laws of the Universe you wish to postulate?

As for Building 7 being PELTED by debris...please direct me to the photographs and video showing large scale structural damage to Building 7?

I dont know what you rqualifacations are Russ but mine are pretty good. Especially the qualifacation as a free thinking human with an expansive frontal lobe able to spot "over intellectualized bulldust" when I see it.
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