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  #11  
Old 09-16-2005, 02:39 PM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"


psholtz Have you ever read the Hebrew bible

literally "letter by letter" like Jeezus himself

has stated was possible ?

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  #12  
Old 09-16-2005, 02:46 PM
Bouncer Bouncer is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

For my two cent's worth, I have to ask, Who is Messiah? He was destined to help establish a new covenant between God and Israel and was intentioned to make Jerusalem the spiritual capital of the world. However, in their highly charged political atmosphere, many wrongly assumed the Messiah would overthrow Rome, and so were disillusioned with Jesus because of this.
As for "Christianity", the first Messianic Jews and believing gentiles generally called themselves "The people of the Way", or something like that. It wasn't until later in history that someone coined the term, "Christian", which was at the time a vaguely diminutive term for "Little Christs", but the term caught on eventually.
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  #13  
Old 09-16-2005, 02:50 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

Quote:
nomad wrote:
psholtz Have you ever read the Hebrew bible

literally "letter by letter" like Jeezus himself

has stated was possible ?
No, although I would great desire to be able to do that one day (I am teaching myself Hebrew, to be able to do so! :-P )

My ideas about Judaism being a continuation of Persian Zoroastrianism is formed by information such as this:

http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/index.html

The idea of Christianity being a continuation of Egyptian sun worship is bassed, well.. largely on the obvious Sun allegories that are evident everywhere in the NT, as well as a reading of Hebrews 5-7, where it is written that Jesus was ordained in to the Priesthood of Melchizedek..

If you do a little bit of research, the only place where the Priesthood of Melchizedek was active in Second Temple Times was in Egypt, which .. would kinda imply that Jesus had spent time in Egypt at some point (in fact, Matthew writes that Jesus went to Egypt to flee the slaughter of the innocents, although, this story is probably largely allegorical and might therefore be a hint wrt what I'm saying)..
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  #14  
Old 09-16-2005, 02:59 PM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

psholtz ok let's try your first Hebrew lesson

right now


A ... aleph ... also know as the number 1

B ... beth ... also know as a house (like the Kiss

song)


Now ... lets put the letters together to form

a word ... and read from right to left ...

Can you guess what word this is using pure

logic ?

B + A
house + master
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  #15  
Old 09-16-2005, 03:13 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

Quote:
nomad wrote:
psholtz ok let's try your first Hebrew lesson

right now


A ... aleph ... also know as the number 1

B ... beth ... also know as a house (like the Kiss

song)


Now ... lets put the letters together to form

a word ... and read from right to left ...

Can you guess what word this is using pure

logic ?

B + A
house + master
If I have to read it in Hebrew-order, then the word is "father", no? :-P
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  #16  
Old 09-16-2005, 03:15 PM
Arjuna Arjuna is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

psholtz said, "Christianity and Judaism really have nothing much to do w/ each other."

Excellent posts. That is the best explanation I have ever read.

Your analysis confirms my long-standing belief that the biggest mistake Christianity ever made was holding onto the Old Testament. For Christians to believe that the New Testament is the Word of God is understandable, because those writings tell the story of the origins of their religion. For them to believe that the Old Testament is the Word of God is absurd. The Old Testament tells the story of the origins of an entirely different religion, Judaism. The Old Testament contains many examples of how "God's chosen people" oppose, dislike, and possibly hate the rest of humanity. "The rest of humanity" is referred to as "gentiles" in the OT. Of course, all Christians are gentiles.

The fact is that today many Christians believe that the Jews are God's chosen people, and many Christians consider themselves Zionists.

It would be interesting to know why the compilers of the Bible chose to include the OT. Was it a foolish error on their part, or were the Jews involved in this decision in order to make it possible for them to perpetually confuse and undermine the new religion.
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  #17  
Old 09-16-2005, 03:19 PM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

right on ! ... now we can deduce in theory

the ENTIRE Hebrew dictionary this way ... meaning

if you were taught the meaning of each letter,

you can by yourself build the dictionary.

Now how many languages do you

know that work like this ?
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  #18  
Old 09-16-2005, 03:42 PM
freeman freeman is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

Quote:
B + A
house + master


If I have to read it in Hebrew-order, then the word is "father", no?
What if Gloria Steinem is reading it? I can see there is ample room for interpretation in the Hebrew language...
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  #19  
Old 09-16-2005, 05:28 PM
psholtz psholtz is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

Quote:
nomad wrote:
right on ! ... now we can deduce in theory

the ENTIRE Hebrew dictionary this way ... meaning

if you were taught the meaning of each letter,

you can by yourself build the dictionary.

Now how many languages do you

know that work like this ?
Well, I don't mean to say that Hebrew (and/or Judaism) is not "divinely"-inspired.. There's great and deep wisdom in the Torah and the OT (esp the Prophets, the Wisdom writings and Genesis, imho), and the structure of the Hebrew language is certainly interesting, as you point out. Besides, the Babylonian Magi (<- if they are the true originators of Judaism) were certainly men of deep and devout wisdom.. nobody's going to argue against that.

However, it's one thing to say that your religion is "divinely-inspired" (<- I would hope that it is), it's another thing entirely to say that "God gave us this land, and that's the way things are".. As soon as you start talking about land and who owns it, you take yourself out of the realm of religion and place yourself into the realm of business and politics.. and the God I know couldn't care less about business and politics; what God cares about is you and your Soul ..

Besides, the numbers game (in Hebrew) only goes so far, doesn't it? I mean, citing your example above, the *real* word for "master" is Hebrew is actually "Baal", isn't it? (beth-ayin-lamed).. According to your algorithm above, that would translate as "house-eye-(whatever lamed stands for)" .. does that really work?

Incidently, Hebrew does bear a striking resemblence to Aramaic, the official language of the Persian Empire, showing once again the close connection between Judaism and the Persians.. ;-)
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  #20  
Old 09-16-2005, 07:29 PM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: Jews 4 Jesus..."What proof do you have that Jesus was the Messiah?"

Until you have personally experienced the divine on a deep level you will never understand Christ beyond words in a book.

He may provide comfort and strength in times of adversity and encourage a rightous life...but the terms..."no one comes to the Father except by Me"...and..."the Kingdon of God is within you"...will still remain elusive.

Christ is the only modern Western mind to fully grasp his divinity in both hands and walk with it.

No one had done it before and no one has done it since.

Simple Easterners with Garden Of Eden consciousness indeed attain this state regularly.

God is looking to incarnate into fully conscious humans. So far he's done it once. It may be a fluke of evoloution. I here He's going to do it again.

Looking forward to it.

The term ..."nothing but..." to describe the life of Christ as in, "oh it's just a common sun god theme repeated throughout history". Indeed, lots of these archetypal themes are repeated throught history...in fact - L-I-V-E-D in history.

The hero myth is a popular one...a man rises up against opposition and refuses temptation to go on to become a hero or King like figure to the people. Does that mean William Wallace never lived? Was George Washington a myth?

I dont mind people tearing at the flesh of Christianity every 5 minutes...what they need to do is come up with something that actually is'nt half baked bullshit designed to protect their little souls from the frightening knowledge that God walked the Earth for a short time in the body of one Jesus Christ who had some very specific things to say about some very specific things.

The best thing the detractors can do is say they are not willing to believe because there is not enough "proof", or "facts" and we can part ways happily.

Never in history has a more uplifting story of hope and grace been attacked ENDLESSLY by people who should distinguish between the failings of the Church and the amazing Ministry of Jesus The Christ.
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