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  #11  
Old 03-22-2005, 06:20 AM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?


Quote:
psholtz wrote:
Quote:
nomad wrote:
Thumper read this and it will all make sense

to you.

http://www.gwb.com.au/gwb/news/multi/illumin.html
excellent link, btw nomad! :-P
Myron Fagan should be made a saint ... imagine

trying to explain the NWO to people in the 60s

when no internet existed and a Jew on top of

that !

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  #12  
Old 03-23-2005, 01:29 AM
truebeliever truebeliever is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Alex Jones on that subject.
http://www.members.iinet.net.au/~falluga/ML.wmv
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  #13  
Old 03-23-2005, 04:58 AM
55132 55132 is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

firsthand aacount on how the intl. communisum works

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=110

55132
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  #14  
Old 03-23-2005, 04:24 PM
Saturnino Saturnino is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

It has to do with the Hegelian dialectic process of thesis vs antithesis. You create different extreme points so you can have a synthesis in the future. In this case, the Illuminati wanted some kind of fascism, a strong state under their hands, like communism, with private propriety (for them, of course)...something like China is today.

So they funded communism and attacked it at the same time, in order to militarize the West, create the military-industrial complex, create a police state, etc...very useful indeed. When the need was gone, they just said that communism doesn`t exist anymore. ..he he he...at the same time, they infiltrated all kinds of communist ideas of State control in the American society, especially in the universities, all funded by the big tax-free foundations.

It is this mix they want, the worst of two worlds. Communism gives them the power and the State, capitalism gives them the money.
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  #15  
Old 03-23-2005, 04:38 PM
nohope187 nohope187 is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
It is this mix they want, the worst of two worlds. Communism gives them the power and the State, capitalism gives them the money.
And the sheeple eat it up with a spoon. :-P
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  #16  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:31 PM
nomad nomad is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Quote:
nohope187 wrote:
Quote:
Saturnino wrote:
It is this mix they want, the worst of two worlds. Communism gives them the power and the State, capitalism gives them the money.
And the sheeple eat it up with a spoon. :-P
Yup and the sheeple eat it up ... just

like they are eating up the setup of

the Bush brothers coming in as HEROS to

save Terri Schiavo.
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  #17  
Old 03-24-2005, 09:04 PM
Thumper Thumper is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Quote:
55132 wrote:
firsthand aacount on how the intl. communisum works

http://www.nationalvanguard.org/story.php?id=110

55132
why did he defect anyway? his conscience?
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  #18  
Old 03-25-2005, 04:31 PM
this this is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

re: 55132's link to Benjamin Freedman's speech in 1961

It seems he defected because he was disgusted and knew firsthand how diabolical the schemes were. Also by blaming a group of which he was a member he was able to be taken seriously without going further perhaps, by blaming the Rockefellers and Standard Oil. He also wanted to 'out' the majority of Jewish schemers who he felt were not ethnic Jews like himself but Khazars.

In 1961 the Rockefellers had a higher profile than today, and he likely had to weigh what he said carefully by showing as much as he possibly could. He was very concerned about a nuclear WWIII and the Cuban missile crisis shows he was right.

The fact that Kruschev was photographed as being happy to see Rockefeller makes one wonder what indeed was/is going on. How nuts are the Rockefellers, and how much control do they have over the international war machine?
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  #19  
Old 03-27-2005, 03:19 AM
Draken Draken is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

This is a part of a longer analysis titled <a href="http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/threats.html">ANALYSIS OF STRATEGIC THREATS IN THE CURRENT DECADE (2000-2010) By Joel M. Skousen</a>. I was recommended by THIS to read the whole thing and I encourage everyone to do the same. As a teaser I post this excerpt for all those who wonder why the global elite would want to covertly support Communism, while at the same time overtly oppose it.


WESTERN GLOBALISTS: THE NEW WORLD ORDER

INTRODUCTION

The movement to establish a global system of control began somewhere back in the murky past of the Illuminati (1776) and has since morphed, grown and expanded till now there are numerous shadowy variants and groups that make it almost impossible to pin down exactly who is running things and where the real motive and power is coming from. Fortunately, it is not necessary to know all of the secrets underlying this movement. It is sufficient to establish that all of the existing globalist organizations--the Council on Foreign Relations, Trilateral Commission, Aspen Institute, Bilderburgers, Royal Institute for International Affairs, Committee of 300, Club of Rome, etc., aspire to global control and eliminate national sovereignty. Numerous quotations of their own leaders and members state just that. That they have more sinister long-term motives and intentions concerning the eventual use of global control is not so clear or easy to prove. However, the track record of global intervention does not portend an optimistic outcome.

Those who watch the way global insiders operate and cover up illegal operations of influence and control almost always come away convinced that there is some form of conspiracy involved. This conclusion is really not too difficult to establish if one has access to the details of each case. Look at the specific evidence pointing to government misdeeds and the subsequent cover-ups of economic manipulation, assassinations, terrorist attacks on airlines, illegal weapons trade, government coups, and high level corruption. In each of these cases, there is a common thread: the active involvement of a vast array of high officials, government agencies, the media, law officers, lawyers, judges, and sometimes international corporations and organized crime--coordinated and inter-connected enough to hide the truth, obstruct justice and cover for high level leaders. That’s what a conspiracy is: a coordination between normally separable government officials who have no legal right or lawful need to collude in their official capacities. Sadly, it happens all the time. The excuse given, when discovered, that these unfortunate incidents are merely the workings of the proverbial "rogue agent" is rarely true. Upon close examination, the trail leads always to higher levels where the cover-up and obstruction gets serious. For further evidence, read the accounts of the many government whistle blowers out of the military, CIA, DEA, or FBI, found in Rodney Stich’s Defrauding America (order line: 1-800-247-7389).

THE NEW WORLD ORDER (NWO) AS A PREDATOR MOVEMENT

NWO globalists take great care to mask their intentions by appealing to "democracy" and making constant references to "human rights" and the support of international law. But a close look at their justification for intervention in Iraq, the Balkans and Indonesia clearly indicates that tyranny and ethnic cleansing was fostered, then overlooked, or even partially falsified until it festered enough to justify intervention and subsequent control. While most people in the Western world do not view the NWO as a predator movement, the Eastern world certainly is beginning to see it in that light. I will make the case that the changing role of NATO and the UN from a defensive organization to an aggressor in Iraq, Kosovo, Bosnia, East Timor, and Africa was and still is intentional, meant to help stir up hatred and discontent sufficient to justify an eventual Russian and Chinese strike on the West as previously discussed.

WHY?

The big question is always, why would those who strive for global power and financial control want to engender a nuclear war that would destroy the whole world? In the first place, it is not true that the whole world would be destroyed. Millions would die, and over half the people in any country under attack would get very ill, but probably no more than 20% of the populace of any nation subjected to a military facilities first strike would die. Most countries will not be targeted. Russia, who is planning this war, is sensible enough to be prepared to shelter many of its citizens from nuclear effects. Among Western nations, however, only Switzerland has a comprehensive fallout shelter program for its citizens. A few thousand savvy conservatives in America also have provided shelter systems for their families. Nuclear war is quite survivable, outside of the actual blast zones, with adequate preparations in place.

The core of the question about the prime motive remains: why destroy the tremendous prosperity that even these conspirators for global power enjoy? Most people do not sufficiently understand real evil. To them, this scenario is simply unimaginable. But the fact remains, powerful men in government and business have knowingly colluded to finance war and destruction. It has happened before and it will happen again. For example, globalists bankers, corporation heads and government officials colluded prior to WWII to finance Hitler and Stalin, and undermine capitalist nations in order to pave the way for Socialism and war. A close look at the conduct of the war relative to aid and concessions to Russia paint a picture of Western complicity to play the Hegelian game, building up an enemy in order to produce a controlled response. The West actively colluded in the betrayal of captive nations and paved the way for Soviet military dominance and conquest around the world.

None of the World Wars in this century were accidents, in my opinion. Conflict was created with the long-term goal to facilitate a consolidation of world power in the hands of the NWO elite. It is true that many of the Wall Street bankers who financed Hitler and the Alfried Krupp-owned German war industries saw those investments destroyed, but they were always taken care of after the war and allowed to make even greater millions in the reconstruction process. That was much of the motive behind the Marshal Plan. German armorer Alfried Krupp, who was convicted at the Nuremberg trials for using slave labor, was pardoned by John J. McCloy, US Military Governor and High Commissioner in Germany. Mcloy was also the globalist insider who eventually became head of the CFR. Clearly there was a system of immunity and protection established for insider participants so that war could be used as an instrument of change, without destroying its own leaders and the power behind them. In each case, there was a common motive--to use the horrors of war to accelerate the demand for international institutions of control that would not otherwise be acceptable to free men and women.

To fully understand the globalist mode of operation, we must address one of the great inconsistencies in US foreign policy: Why have US leaders (especially from Truman onward) actively undermined other pro-Western governments and secretly armed and supported Communist guerrilla operations in such countries as China, Korea, Cuba, Nicaragua, Laos, and Cambodia? Why do globalists attack some Communist regimes and support others? The main reason is that globalists are dedicated socialists, in terms of commitment to control, but want the benefits of a partially free market to finance that control system. They have a code name for this dualism--the Third Way--which is a euphemism for the old Fabian socialism (private ownership but government regulation and control). Naturally, globalists like the trappings of wealth that the capitalist component of a controlled economy provides.

Communism has been a useful tool for the globalists to subvert liberty in the world. Communism takes the rap, while the globalists steadily undermine world independence and national sovereignty. The NWO boys are experts in the use of Hegelian tactics of creating enemies that produce a desired response. For example, Communism is often characterized by certain excesses in tyranny that engender a call for global intervention--very convenient. The Communists do the dirty work and the globalists step in to control the final outcome. Often, the setup is not easy to control. When a Communist tyrant becomes unpredictable or messy the US State Department has to go in and undermine their own tyrant and replace him with another. Ultimately, US global leaders have to undermine any strongman, such as Milosovic in Serbia who refuses to become subservient to NWO control. Globalists have a nasty record of not being able to find moderate tyrants, especially in Africa and the Middle East.

The globalists’ first attempt to use war to create global government was WWI and the subsequent League of Nations. It ended in failure--unless we take into account the one-sided Versailles Treaty of WWI which became a catalyst for German hatred of the West, helping to foment the Second World War. WWII, in turn, successfully delivered the world into the arms of the United Nations, but the global architects were unable to create anything more than an international society of bickering social democrats, global guidance counselors and Communist thugs. Thankfully, it had no enforcement powers. But that did not deter the UN’s ultimate mission of undermining national sovereignty. While preaching peace through intervention, the UN has created much mischief and genocide in the world which, in turn, has fomented predictable calls for change--including the addition of enforcement powers to the globalist organization. But, the world isn’t buying into this trap yet, so enforcement continues to be primarily a US responsibility, and additional crises must be created to alter the world’s reluctance to submit to global authority.

During this post-WWII era (interspersed with periodic regional conflicts), the globalists have concentrated on developing world economic interdependencies to justify adding additional financial and structural elements of control. Their favored vehicle uses the popularity of "free-market" prosperity to rally support for regional common markets which, in turn, demand the creation of regional and international control agencies promoting "free trade." In the process, other goals are achieved like the increase of trade and aid to current tyrannies like Russia and China, and the diminution of self-sufficiency in essential goods within each nation, making them more vulnerable to shortages in future wars. People are also getting used to piecemeal sacrifices of sovereignty in exchange for increased prosperity.

This slow-change, hide-the-real-effects process is meeting with increased resistance within the EU and the US as the control elements of the World Court, IMF, WTO, NAFTA and GATT become more and more obvious and the rigors of free trade cut into traditional socialist subsidies and high wages, especially in Europe. It is for this reason, primarily, that the NWO globalists will resurrect war again as the final catalyst to catapult the world over that final barrier of resistance. That is where we are headed, I believe.

THE USE OF WAR TO INSTIGATE RADICAL CHANGE

The globalists know that they cannot induce the world to give up national sovereignty outright or grant enforcement powers to the UN as long as the world is relatively at peace and the US is the dominant military force in the world. All governments are chronically short of funds due to the demands of social welfare programs. Why should they increase spending to support a UN army when the US will carry the load for them? Thus, it is the destruction of America’s military, forcing the world to join and support a global military that provides the prime motivation of US global leaders to induce the Russians to strike their own nation. This alone explains the suicidal and unilateral disarmament the US has engaged in for the past 30 years. It explains the rationale for covering up for Russia’s constant cheating on arms control agreements and treaties. It explains why Bill Clinton would direct the US military to absorb a nuclear first strike (PDD-60) and NOT launch on warning. It explains why the US would keep stalling year after year to make sure America is undefended against a nuclear strike and that there are no provisions for civil defense shelters. It isn’t that US leaders are stupid. They aren’t suicidal. They simply can’t get the world to take the final plunge into global control without a war.

HOW DO YOU WIN A WAR AFTER ABSORBING A NUCLEAR FIRST STRIKE?

Clearly the NWO globalists do not intend to lose a war to the Russians, which brings up the next question: how do the globalist plan to win a war with Russia when they allow Russia and China to launch a first strike and destroy most of the US and British military machine at the very onset of hostilities? I do not think Europe will be included in the first strike as Russia wants to preserve the economy of Europe by blackmailing it into submission. Certainly Europe’s meager NATO forces would be incapable of taking on the Russians alone.

The amswer may lie in the fact that both Republican and Democratic administrations have been actively favoring China’s acquisition of US military technology for the past 12 years. I suspect that the globalists have a secret pact with China whereby China has agreed to betray Russia during the next war, in return for promises of military technology transfers. China wins in three ways. It gets military aid from Russia before the war, receives aid from the West before and during the war, and eliminates a major world predator (Russia) in the prosecution of the war. The globalists of the 1930s had a similar secret pact with Russia. Russia’s temporary "non-aggression" pact with Germany set Hitler loose on the world, and after the western front was secure, Russia, with promises of allied aid, turned on Hitler and contributed to his defeat. By establishing a second front at Hitler’s rear, the pressure on the Allies was sufficiently relieved to allow them to take the offensive.

In the coming war, I suspect China will play the same role and may even absorb the balance of Russia’s nuclear weapon strikes. If the West has weapons strong enough to destroy Russia’s underground weapons factories in the Ural Mountains, the war will turn conventional and Russia cannot win a conventional war with China’s millions threatening its rear. I wouldn’t be surprised if during the course of the war, China will be allowed to retain her conquests in the Far East, much as Stalin was promised control of Eastern Europe after the war. When the war is over, the world will have a new cold war and a new enemy--China. As in WWII, this is precisely what the NWO needs to justify maintaining international enforcement power in the hands of the UN. War will also justify a whole range of control mechanisms over people and business life. We may never see them completely lifted.

A FEW COMMENTS FOR THOSE WHO UNDERSTAND THE THREAT BUT DOUBT CONSPIRACY

There is one major mistake in assumption that almost all people make who object to conspiracy--they assume that everyone or nearly everyone contributing to the conspirator's agenda must know there is a conspiracy and be privy to the whole agenda. This is not true, but conjuring up this assumption allows people to easily dismiss conspiracy with the understanding that too many knowing people would make it impossible to keep the secret. I certainly have never made a case for that all or even a many of the participants know the whole plan or even substantial parts of it. Quite the contrary. All my writings have concentrated on explaining how and why top level conspirators use masses of predictable leftists, yes-men, ambitious lackeys and partially knowing ladder-climbers to do their bidding--specifically so as to limit the number who have "need to know" access. They cement together the whole conglomerate with subtle and not so subtle threats--and occasionally carry them out. Many are bought off with regular payments--like journalists and judges. Most know only parts of the puzzle.

However, almost everyone in high places does know there is "power structure" above them they dare not challenge, they also know it isn't good for their job, advancement or health to "ask too many questions." Read any number of the tales by federal whistleblowers to confirm this general fear. Thus, most participants rationalize it all away as some benevolent control system, or believing that "whoever they are" must control the world in order to have stability. Others, especially in the enforcement ranks, are just too corrupt to care. But the bottom line is: very few know that the Powers That Be (PTB) intend to pull the nuclear trigger via Russia and China. All the little steps leading up to weakening the US and building up Russia and China are covered by liberal notions of "détente," "easing tensions," and "peace." These lesser officials who are tasked to defend these lies tend to believe their own propaganda.

However, the ones at the very top, who do know how to use war to create Hegelian responses, are very very evil--something most of the world doesn't really believe in anymore, and that is why many people can't conceive of or believe in this horrible brand of conspiracy. But keep in mind what they did before in building up Hitler, only to set him loose on Europe during WWII. The war created a justification for the UN and facilitated the rise of a new enemy (Russia) in its aftermath. Remember Pearl Harbor--not because of the infamy of Japan, but the infamy of Roosevelt and his leftist crew who induced Japan to attack and hid the information from our own military in Hawaii. It happened before, so why should it be so hard to believe now? We are reaching the culmination of what George Marshall and his cohorts planned by creating a cold war enemy. Russia was allowed to rise and have hegemony over Europe in order to create the next war. The phony demise of "Communism" is merely the final effort to lull the West into complacency before the strike. We are about to see it descend upon the world.

In all of this, I'm certainly not discounting the military-industrial complex argument, but it doesn't explain why people that are already fabulously wealthy and who control the reigns of power are still pushing the world toward greater and greater global control. None of this will give them any more personal power or wealth. How much can any single person use? The military industrial complex argument doesn’t explain the rush to suicide and disarmament at an alarming rate. Some participants are blind, but surely some must suspect this is very dangerous game and are going along in order to please some other very powerful people above them. But let there be no doubt--the top echelon expects to survive this--why else have they built significant bunkers at US taxpayer expense. Somebody knows something is coming. Also, war is not as futile a tactic as most conspiracy debunkers assume. At least 2/3 of the world will survive this even without preparations, and virtually all the high level people who know that war is coming have made preparations to survive it.

My friend Jeff Nyquist and many others do not believe in conspiracy--at least on a broad scale. They try to explain things in terms of mistakes, blunders and attempts to cover for those blunders. The basic problem I have with Nyquist's reliance on standard psychological and sociological models is that it breaks down with the more specific information I have about the detailed actions of those involved in the government's undermining of our national interests--in exchange for global and leftist interests. I've never met an honest conspiracy debunker yet who has really read all the literature of the defectors from the CIA and other black agencies. Of course, virtually none of the defectors themselves sees the big picture either--but the evidence is clear that the whistleblowers all knew that the higher ups directly conspired to keep them silent. We have to look at the long historical trend of conformity to leftist ideology in these cover ups to perceive the unified purpose behind these actions. Few witnesses immersed in the details of a whistleblower’s tragic battles with government have the talent to see the correlation and pattern of action that point to a coordinated plan of attack on liberty and national sovereignty. It’s too easy to focus on the specific injustice.

For example, the excuse that the betrayal of US security interests by CIA or State Department officials is a cover-up for past mistakes is a weak conclusion. Certainly, mistakes happen, no matter how much power the PTB have. But covering for blunders alone does not explain why high government officials keep making NEW MISTAKES in the same consistent direction (leftward) and why there are more and more NEW EFFORTS to cover for NEW threats from the Russians and Chinese . Why is it that we never see any official learn from the blunders of the past? Why is it that the betrayals keep accelerating and getting broader? The more diverse the agencies involved and the more people that are brought into the net of betrayal, the less possible it is that they are all acting only to cover for mistakes. There has to be some other explanation that keeps generation after generation of government officials moving toward a single direction.

Cover-ups are what I consider my best evidence for conspiracy--simply because of the interconnectedness between disconnected officials and agencies that happens in a conspiracy. But now Nyquist comes along and, while admitting that cover ups exist, claims that there is no plan behind them--that it is only normal sociological motives of rogue individuals. I don't buy it--mainly because of the many many years this has been going on, and the fact that it has always had a powerful continuum of hostility toward the interests of liberty. If it were people covering for people, the process would clear itself from time to time or even reverse directions. It would be more random. But it isn’t random. It shows all too much disturbing evidence of continual forward movement--purposeful movement, in my opinion.



IS THERE ANY HOPE OFCOUNTERING THIS EVIL STRATEGY?

This strategy is wholly dependent upon shielding Americans and Europeans from Russian and Chinese intentions. Keeping people ignorant and naive also allows these same globalist leaders to claim that they didn’t know of Russian and Chinese intentions. We must not let them get away with this, lest they claim the right to lead America into the war for global control. If you doubt what I say, check your feelings to see if you at least can sense that the Russians and Chinese are lying about their pretensions of peace. If you trust our government, remember Pearl Harbor. The evidence is now fully proven that Roosevelt induced Japan to attack in much the same way our own government now is helping to induce a Russian attack in the future. Only this time the results will be deadly to many more Americans. Every one of you reading this is at risk, so do not take lightly what I say. If the general reasoning I have presented is compelling, help warn others. Feel free to distribute this analysis. The more people that know of this grand deception, the less success globalist leaders will have in escaping blame.

In any case, the least you can do is prepare to survive the next war. If I’m right on timing we still have a few years to prepare. If J R Nyquist’s timing is right, you don’t have any time to spare, so do something constructive sooner rather than later. My website has several sources that can help you keep track of the progress of these threats and prepare against them.

Thanks for listening.

Joel Skousen, Editor <a href="http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com/keytopics/World/index.html">World Affairs Brief</a>

http://www.joelskousen.com
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  #20  
Old 03-27-2005, 03:55 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: If Communism is the plan, why was it opposed by the US during the cold war?

Peace Draken,

"The core of the question about the prime motive remains: why destroy the tremendous prosperity that even these conspirators for global power enjoy? "

The problem that we most fail to see is that there is a different species that is conspiring against us. Satan wants to enslave the human being, what do you think he would do if this human being refused to cooperate? "if you can't enslave him, kill him" that's Satan's motto.

Another thing that surprises me is that the conspiracy theory focus on the NWO, while this NWO is no different than the nation states.

Does anybody in the nation states have any choice but to follow the rulers' religion? where is the community rule? voting for a representative and then letting him choose for us is a satanic idea that we all bought.

Submission is the only religion in the world that encourages self-rule, meaning that the people in charge cannot make any decision except after due consultation with the people who chose them.

And the prophecy in the scriptures says that this religion (the only legitimate one) is going to dominate the whole world, God willing very soon.

[9:33] He is the One who sent His messenger with the guidance and the religion of truth, and will make it dominate all religions, in spite of the idol worshipers.
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