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  #21  
Old 03-21-2005, 10:12 AM
buckshotBill buckshotBill is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq


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  #22  
Old 03-21-2005, 05:04 PM
landownunder landownunder is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

Ahmad,

When God says "Over it is 19", He means it is His profound sign (signature) on the whole universe including the scriptures. God also says that it is one of the great miracles, a reminder for all humanity. Now by rejecting a sign God is showing you, you are rejecting Him with it. This is the litmus test, why it has been a secret for 1400 years? we cannot question God's wisdom.

Your answers are to vivid and need more and proper clarification.

As i said i am not rejecting a sign from GOD.the 19 miracle is indeed a great miracle.
What i am rejecting is the intolerence you adhere to the 1400 years of Islam.
You are taking things to far and rejecting everything before Rashad Khalifa.
How many Muslim Scholars that you people would respect have come before Rashad Khalifa?
Do you think Abu Hanifa, Imam Shaafi, Imam Ghazali, Imam Rabbani, Muhyiddin Al Arabi,Imam Yusuf, Imam Buhari, Imam Ahmed Hanbel, Rumi, and many many others i can name were all crooked?
What kind of ignorance and vanity is this that you reject everything that was islam for 1400 years.Did the muslims of the past 1400 years die on rejection? I want a proper answer.

You Say:
There is a difference between Quran (the scripture) and the "Mushaf" (the printed book). Some mushafs in the world now are circulating with a lot of print errors, missing words..etc, can we ask your question in this case too? why God didn't protect his book from the printing errors!

There is a difference between printing errors and and the removal of two full verses.As you know we have in Islam what we call "Hafeez". people who memorise the Kur'an, and you will find that they will all recite the very same recitations no matter what nationality they are.Which is also another miracle of the Kur'an.People memorising the Kur'an for centuries. No book that large can ever be memorized.has anyone memorized the Bible or the Torah?As for printing mistakes any one who reads the Kur'an can pick up these mistakes.An example is a Kur'an that was printed in Saudi Arabia had the printing mistakes and was picked up,not the people teaching the Kur'an by by the little children who were reciting it.
Therefore Allah Allmighty is continuing to protect his Book.
Also The Kur'an which was recited by Hz Osman May Allah be pleased with him still stands in it's original form in the Topkapi Museum Istanbul.If you have doubt , go check for yourself.


You Say:
As far as we are concerened, the scripture always had the 6346 (19x334) proven verses intact, as for the two false verses (which exalt Muhammad) the sincere always had doubts about them, untill God sent us the messenger of the covenant to clear this matter. One of the functions of 19 is ([74:4] Purify your garment.) which means to purify the book from the satanic injections. The miracle is a perfect security system, if one word is changed, the whole mathematical composition falls apart. God indeed did preserve his miracle within the scripture and kept it hidden for 1400 years, in 1974 it was time to purify the religion of Abraham once and forall from the satanic fabrications.

Muhammad Peace be upon him was the last messenger.Rashad Khalifa is not a messenger.Messengers have miracles, what miracle has Rashad Khalifa Shown? Oh and dont say he found the 19 equation because the 19 equation was something first stumbled upon by a Bahaain Monk, who also claimed to be a messenger.The 19 equation is the Miracle of Kur'an, and by stumbling up on it, or finding it does not make you a prophet.
The whole point is you people have taken this 19 matter so seriously you have gone as far as trying to remove verses from the Kur'an. Thankfully not many have followed your lead.
Allah has verily kept his promise and protected his Book.
How can you take "Purify your garment" as proof that you should remove ayats from the Kur'an.please Explain.Could it not mean, Purify your faith, purify your soul. We need this all the time.But offcourse this is to simple isnt it? After all the Kur'an is a book that shouldnt be simple as it was sent to mathematicians, and geniuses???

Isn't the muslim world's condition enough punishment! the most ignoranrt, undeveloped, defeated countries in the world are muslims, haven't you asked yourself why!. However the direct punishments are now starting, as per this verse which says that God doesn't punish except after sending a warning messenger, Rashad Khalifa did warn the muslim world of disregarding Quran in favor of Hadith, and that's why they killed him in 1990.

Te Muslim world has been suffering the past 100 years.Not because of its ignorance but because of the Games played upon it by the dark satanic forces.Muslims due to their kind nature and gullibility could never have imagined such a great game being played on them.Muslims kept balance in the world for many centuries. It was because of the great Islamic empire the ottomans (who had its mistakes, especially towards the end)that Europe could not savagely attack each other.Serbians Couldnt attack Croations and Bosnians and vice versa, Germans could not attack the French and vice versa as th balance of power in Europe was the Muslims.As soon as the Muslim empire fell, Europeans savagely attacked each other and took out the 100's of years of ethnic hatred that built up inside.Not once but twice...History speaks for itself.What about the first muslims (the Sahaba)? why did they suffer? were they also crooked muslims? who misunderstood the Kur'an and followed a man called Muhammed? I also want a proper answer to that.

"There are those who follow the corrupt laws of Hadith unwittingly, i for one used to follow some of the false practices because i didn't know better, and i believe God forgives those who sin out of ignorance. But when God sends you a reminder, your responsbility begins, as for you i hold you responsible to verify the miracle and make a decision regarding it, you either reject a messenger and a message from God and end up in hell or embrace the message and follow the guidance, you are responsible now infront of God, there is no escape from Him, you have recieved the reminder and you have to give God a response"

All i can say is it can only be a person who is totally confused who would call a muslim to denounce verses from the Kur'an in the name of inviting him to islam...

And i invite you in fromt of Allah Most gracious most merciful to accpet the 2 verses from the Kur'an which ye denounce, therefore denouncing what is from Allah.

The 19 miracle is indeed a miracle...
A miracle which you people got to carried away with as far as making changes to the Scripture.

Who do you think you are??

I will not be replying to this topic any longer as ive had enough of it through other forums...
Le Kum dinukum waliyediiyn
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  #23  
Old 03-22-2005, 05:35 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

landownunder: "Your answers are to vivid and need more and proper clarification."

Check my introduction to the miracle, www.usn2161.net/19miracle.html


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landownunder: "Do you think Abu Hanifa, Imam Shaafi, Imam Ghazali, Imam Rabbani, Muhyiddin Al Arabi,Imam Yusuf, Imam Buhari, Imam Ahmed Hanbel, Rumi, and many many others i can name were all crooked?"

Most of these people have instituted laws besides God's under the guise of explaining Quran, as if God forgot to tell us something in the book!. Now the disaster prevailing in the muslim world is that instead of following Quran alone, they have divided themselves to sects, some sects follow the Sunni collection of "man-made" Hadith, some others follow the Shiite collection of the "man-made" Hadith books. Others have further divided the "one religion" into 4 "Mazhabs, schools of jurisdiction", each school is following one of these prominent scholars you mentioned!

Are these respected scholars infallible, to be followed for centuries after their death? are the muslims not satisfied with God's words alone? why have they abandoned Quran en masse, and instead of trying to understand and use it, they just memorize it!

[6:114] Shall I seek other than GOD as a source of law, when He has revealed to you this book fully detailed? Those who received the scripture recognize that it has been revealed from your Lord, truthfully. You shall not harbor any doubt.

[45:6] These are GOD's revelations that we recite to you truthfully. In which Hadith other than GOD and His revelations do they believe?

[9:31] They have set up their religious leaders and scholars as lords, instead of GOD. Others deified the Messiah, son of Mary. They were all commanded to worship only one god. There is no god except He. Be He glorified, high above having any partners.

A few of those people you mentioned might have been righteous though, only God knows their destiny. However there is no excuse for following other detailed laws than what we is found in Quran, for it means following another god besides God.

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landownunder: "What kind of ignorance and vanity is this that you reject everything that was islam for 1400 years.Did the muslims of the past 1400 years die on rejection? I want a proper answer."

The knowledge of their destiny is with God. The righteous among them who believed in God alone, didn't exalt Muhammad, didn't follow except Quran, those who believed in their responsbility and accountability infront of God (belief in the hereafter) are definetly in Heaven. But they are not the majority, since the majority to this day follow a man-made religion instead of "Submission, the creed of Abraham.

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landownunder: "There is a difference between printing errors and and the removal of two full verses."

The mathematical composition proves without doubt that the two verses doesn't belong to the book, i refer you to this article written by Rashad Khalifa (N.B: I am not affiliated with the website though),Tampering with the word of God.

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landownunder: "people who memorise the Kur'an, and you will find that they will all recite the very same recitations no matter what nationality they are."

It doesn't matter if a million people memorized a book by heart, since 19 years after Muhammad's death the book was injected with the two false verses, thus it is from the very beginning contaminated with these two false verses intended to exalt Muhammad and make him an idol besides God.

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landownunder: "Also The Kur'an which was recited by Hz Osman May Allah be pleased with him still stands in it's original form in the Topkapi Museum Istanbul.If you have doubt , go check for yourself."

All i know is that the oldest full copy of Quran is from the ninth century long after Muhammad died.

-----------------
landownunder: "Muhammad Peace be upon him was the last messenger."

First don't say "peace be upon him" because it is an innovation intended to exalt and commemorate Muhammad besides God. Nowhere in Quran did God say that Muhammad is the last "messenger", please read carefully,

[33:40] Muhammad was not the father of any man among you. He was a messenger of GOD and the final prophet. GOD is fully aware of all things.

God would have said "the final messenger" but He didn't, because a prophet delivers a book of prophecy, as for a messenger, he just uses the available scripture to deliver further instructions and wisdom. Note that there is a clear distinction between a mere messenger and a messenger prophet in Quran, for example reflect on the following verse,

[3:79] Never would a human being whom GOD blessed with the scripture and prophethood say to the people, "Idolize me beside GOD." Instead, (he would say), "Devote yourselves absolutely to your Lord alone," according to the scripture you preach and the teachings you learn.

Many other verses mention the scripture along with prophethood, not with messengership.

---------------
landownunder: "Rashad Khalifa is not a messenger.Messengers have miracles, what miracle has Rashad Khalifa Shown? Oh and dont say he found the 19 equation because the 19 equation was something first stumbled upon by a Bahaain Monk, who also claimed to be a messenger."

Yes his miracle was the discover of the 19 code in teh scripture and the universe, could you tell us who is this Bahaain Monk who discovered 19 in Quran?

--------------------
landownunder: "The 19 equation is the Miracle of Kur'an, and by stumbling up on it, or finding it does not make you a prophet."

It doesn't make you a prophet but makes you a messenger, have any other "great" scholar discovered it in Quran during the 1400 years before Rashad? have any of them wondered why the basmala, the opening statment of the 114 chapters (In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful) is 19 letters (amazingly it's 19x2 letters in english!), have any one of them wondered what are the mysterious, meaningless letters preceding the 29 chapters (e.g: ALM), have any of them questioned ahy the quran is 114 chapters (19x6) ? apparently God preserves His miracles for his messengers to prove their message.


--------------------
landownunder: "After all the Kur'an is a book that shouldnt be simple as it was sent to mathematicians, and geniuses???"

The miracle is so vast, it ranges from simple facts that can be appreciated by almost everyone, to little complicated facts that can also be appreciated by some, each according to his understanding, however only the sincere would appreciate such an intricate miracle, it was resevred for the age of the computer, when the people are knowledgeable enough of numbers to understand it. The above two facts i stated (the number of chapters, the basmala) don't need a mathematician to be appreciated or do they?

--------------------
landownunder: "Te Muslim world has been suffering the past 100 years.Not because of its ignorance but because of the Games played upon it by the dark satanic forces."

There are no coindcidences in this world, and if they were in a state of misery, it's because they followed Satan. God has promised the believers with Victory, where is it in the muslim world?. Satan has no control, everything is running according to God's master plan, and the master plan promises victory for the believers in God alone, the muslims however believe in God+ Muhammad, or could you tell me, why they make the pilgrimage to God's shrine in Mecca + Muhammad's shrine in Medina?

----------------------
landownunder: "What about the first muslims (the Sahaba)? why did they suffer? were they also crooked muslims? who misunderstood the Kur'an and followed a man called Muhammed? I also want a proper answer to that."

Muhammad and his followers (Sahaba) were eventually granted Victory when they steadfastly persevered, purified themselves of fear and went back to Mecca as victors without spilling a drop of blood (the Meccans by then were afraid of their might so they surrendered). Thus they tasted the victory in their lifetime, since then no muslim group has ever tatsed real victory, why? because of the developement of the Hadith man-made books and distorting the religion.

------------------------
landownunder: "All i can say is it can only be a person who is totally confused who would call a muslim to denounce verses from the Kur'an in the name of inviting him to islam"

I have a physical incontrovertible proof that anybody can verify, where is your proof for your claims?. God indeed preserved His book by means of this miracle that was hidden for 1400 years and then rose to purify the book as per God's promise. Nowhere in Quran does the word "Merciful" refer to other than God, why in the false verses it refers to Muhammad? or is the idol-worshipers trying to exalt their idol.
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  #24  
Old 03-22-2005, 09:59 PM
landownunder landownunder is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

Ahmad:

" since 19 years after Muhammad's death the book was injected with the two false verses, thus it is from the very beginning contaminated with these two false verses intended to exalt Muhammad and make him an idol besides God."

In the religion of 19 which you beleive in, God couldnt protect his book and let people inject the book with 2 verses.After Allah SubhanaTeala said that he would protect his book.SO therefore according to you God couldnt protect the book for 1400 years until Reshad.That would make the God that you beleive in a God who couldnt protect his book after saying that he would...
He let muslims read a false Kur'an for 1400 years. Al Kur'an therefore according to you was re discovered by your Reshad..

That is by far your biggest mistake..

But according to My beleif Islam, Allah Allmighty did what he said "He protected his book from day 1"

Now which God is a more powerfull God?
The one that couldnt protect his book from false verses or the one that didnt see or couldnt stop mankind from injecting two false verses??

Your argument therefore will lead people to beleive te power of the God you beleive is a limited one, a god who couldnt keep his word..

Nay..... Nay .... Nay

You have the Christian mentality running through your veins.. Allthough you seem like you are a big threat to christianity you are of great service to it...

Allah is Allmighty and Allknowing..
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  #25  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:15 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

What can i say!

Apparently you chose to disregard God's sign, if you are really sincere you would have at least verified and debated the message of 19, instead of beating around the bush. Have you debated the message of rashad? have you told us why you follow man-made books instead of God's words in Quran? what makes you any better than the followers of the Talmud.

God indeed preserved His Quran for the sincere by means of a built in security system (19) that you failed to appreciate or see!

For 1400 years the two false verses were a test, now they are a bigger test, or did you expect to enter Paraide without being tested!

I have simply submitted myself to God, i believe in His sign and message, God doesn't love the disbelievers.
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  #26  
Old 03-23-2005, 05:51 PM
landownunder landownunder is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

Thats Right Ahmad,

Your vane thoughts will never go further and you can keep jumping and ignoring the questions which need to be answered.Just keep on repeating yourself...

Obviously you havent read well enough.
Ive never said i rejected the the miracle of the 19..WIth exeptions offcourse.

I do reject the dirty hands trying to take out verses from my book.
Again read carefully, this is the punch line.
If i did accept the 2 verses in the Quran were false then i would have to beleive that Allah could not keep his word of protecting the Kur'an.. This in no way can i accept.If Allah did not will for the 2 verses to be there it wouldnt have been.
Wake up Ahmed..youve become a transgressor and a fanatic..the knowledge you have aquired has vanatised you so far that you reject your very foundations.

Allah subhana we teala is most mercifull, Hazrat Muhammad Sallallahu Aleyhiwe sallam is the prophet and servant of Allah.

My Allah guide us all to the right path.
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  #27  
Old 03-24-2005, 04:50 AM
Ahmad Ahmad is offline
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Default Re: Satanic ritual in Iraq

I seek refuge in God from Satan, the rejected
In the name of God, Most Gracious, Most Merciful

[6:104] Enlightenments have come to you from your Lord. As for those who can see, they do so for their own good, and those who turn blind, do so to their own detriment. I am not your guardian.
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