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  #101  
Old 12-07-2008, 04:40 AM
VillageIdiot VillageIdiot is offline
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So what would you have them do, then, exactly?

The rituals are available on the web, their books are open to inspection, their membership is open, though that's mostly in the States still, from my understanding.

What would you have them do with their money and their time?

It is a religious organization, yes, but it's a secular view of religion.
FreeMasonry itself isn't a religion, none of the tenenants of a religion are there.
Instead, it's supposed to encourage a person who is already religious, which excludes atheists, to better know their own religion, to make it personal.

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  #102  
Old 12-07-2008, 09:31 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageIdiot View Post
So what would you have them do, then, exactly?

The rituals are available on the web, their books are open to inspection, their membership is open, though that's mostly in the States still, from my understanding.

What would you have them do with their money and their time?

It is a religious organization, yes, but it's a secular view of religion.
FreeMasonry itself isn't a religion, none of the tenenants of a religion are there.
Instead, it's supposed to encourage a person who is already religious, which excludes atheists, to better know their own religion, to make it personal.
From whom does this organization receive their money in order to support medical research, children's charities, orphanages, etc?

What type of fundraising do they do?

I've never received anything in my mailbox; heard anything on the television asking for donations to the Freemason Society so they can assist children's charities, medical research and orphanages.

How much money do they raise on a yearly basis for these charities?

What children's charities are you involved with personally?

Freemasonry states that it is not a religion, but all members must be of a religion to join and atheists are not accepted, so it is a RELIGION.

Freemasonry requires that all members be of a religion so they can say they do not espouse a singular religion and are not religious.

This requirement in and of itself makes Freemasonry a religion.

IF THEIR MEMBERS MUST BE OF A RELIGION, FREEMASONRY is a religion.

PERIOD!

If Freemasonry is not a religion, why do the members need to be of a religion to join?

IN ORDER TO HIDE BEHIND GOD WOULD, AGAIN, BE MY ANSWER.

The same as they hide behind their charitable deeds.

Whatever they are.

When does anyone hear about the FREEMASON'S involvement in children's charities and what they've done specifically?

I haven't.

All we ever hear about Freemasonry is how they are involved in children's charities and orphanages.

Why don't we ever hear anyone reporting on the NEWS about how the FREEMASON's donated this amount of money or that amount of money to this children's charity or that children's charity.

Provide us with some specifics, please.

Oh, my.

I'm wondering.

Do you think in a very short time there might be some news on YAHOO about the Freemason Society and their charitable work?

Last edited by BlueAngel : 12-08-2008 at 12:05 AM.
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  #103  
Old 12-08-2008, 12:31 AM
VillageIdiot VillageIdiot is offline
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Default Re: Introduction

Specific?
That'll be hard, I'm not a Mason, and haven't been involved in any of the Masonic charities in my area, for that matter I haven't met many of the local Masons, except for Cindi and her husband Rick.
I've been speaking with a number of Masons via emails and message boards for a little over a year now.
Been interested in Masonry for awhile now, and had a
Cindi's not a Mason herself, she's a member of the Eastern Star, her husbands a Master Mason.

As for where the money comes from, a lot of it comes from the Masons themselves, some comes from fund raisers and events sponsored by Masons.
For example: (You'll have to go to the site and click on the calendar of events) shows the times and dates of the fundraisers.
Since Masons generally rent or own the property they own, a certain amount from the lodge members goes to upkeep of the lodge or rent if it's warranted.

Now, as for what Children's charities I've been part of personally?
I've worked booths at kid's fairs, helped out at Starbase Atlantis, worked a few fund raisers and done some other faires. It's why I started looking at the Masons in the first place.

As for Masonry being a religion, the definition of religion is:

2: institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" [syn: {faith}]

Freemasonry requires that the members have a belief in a higher power, from there now statements about that holy power are made.
Which is the difference, Christianity is a religion, it provides a rote set of ways that followers are to behave, worship, believe, and preach. Clearly defines how a person will be saved.
Masonry simply asks for member to be of a religion.
As for the reason why it's required, at the time Masonry really came about.
During the enlightenment period and earlier Religion was a really large part of people's lives, still is for many people.
As for naming a female versions of Freemasonry, I already have, listed several sites in fact.

Local works by Mason's are usually up on the Lodge's site, and are hard to find out about unless you either participate in them, or you see them advertised.
The hospitals and such that are funded by Masons may or may not have Masons on the staff.
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  #104  
Old 12-09-2008, 11:04 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageIdiot View Post
Specific?
That'll be hard, I'm not a Mason, and haven't been involved in any of the Masonic charities in my area, for that matter I haven't met many of the local Masons, except for Cindi and her husband Rick.
I've been speaking with a number of Masons via emails and message boards for a little over a year now.
Been interested in Masonry for awhile now, and had a
Cindi's not a Mason herself, she's a member of the Eastern Star, her husbands a Master Mason.

As for where the money comes from, a lot of it comes from the Masons themselves, some comes from fund raisers and events sponsored by Masons.
For example: (You'll have to go to the site and click on the calendar of events) shows the times and dates of the fundraisers.
Since Masons generally rent or own the property they own, a certain amount from the lodge members goes to upkeep of the lodge or rent if it's warranted.

Now, as for what Children's charities I've been part of personally?
I've worked booths at kid's fairs, helped out at Starbase Atlantis, worked a few fund raisers and done some other faires. It's why I started looking at the Masons in the first place.

As for Masonry being a religion, the definition of religion is:

2: institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" [syn: {faith}]

Freemasonry requires that the members have a belief in a higher power, from there now statements about that holy power are made.
Which is the difference, Christianity is a religion, it provides a rote set of ways that followers are to behave, worship, believe, and preach. Clearly defines how a person will be saved.
Masonry simply asks for member to be of a religion.
As for the reason why it's required, at the time Masonry really came about.
During the enlightenment period and earlier Religion was a really large part of people's lives, still is for many people.
As for naming a female versions of Freemasonry, I already have, listed several sites in fact.

Local works by Mason's are usually up on the Lodge's site, and are hard to find out about unless you either participate in them, or you see them advertised.
The hospitals and such that are funded by Masons may or may not have Masons on the staff.
Oh, forgoodness sakes, you're not even a Mason.

Take a hike.
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  #105  
Old 12-09-2008, 11:05 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Introduction

Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageIdiot View Post
Specific?
That'll be hard, I'm not a Mason, and haven't been involved in any of the Masonic charities in my area, for that matter I haven't met many of the local Masons, except for Cindi and her husband Rick.
I've been speaking with a number of Masons via emails and message boards for a little over a year now.
Been interested in Masonry for awhile now, and had a
Cindi's not a Mason herself, she's a member of the Eastern Star, her husbands a Master Mason.

As for where the money comes from, a lot of it comes from the Masons themselves, some comes from fund raisers and events sponsored by Masons.
For example: (You'll have to go to the site and click on the calendar of events) shows the times and dates of the fundraisers.
Since Masons generally rent or own the property they own, a certain amount from the lodge members goes to upkeep of the lodge or rent if it's warranted.

Now, as for what Children's charities I've been part of personally?
I've worked booths at kid's fairs, helped out at Starbase Atlantis, worked a few fund raisers and done some other faires. It's why I started looking at the Masons in the first place.

As for Masonry being a religion, the definition of religion is:

2: institution to express belief in a divine power; "he was raised in the Baptist religion"; "a member of his own faith contradicted him" [syn: {faith}]

Freemasonry requires that the members have a belief in a higher power, from there now statements about that holy power are made.
Which is the difference, Christianity is a religion, it provides a rote set of ways that followers are to behave, worship, believe, and preach. Clearly defines how a person will be saved.
Masonry simply asks for member to be of a religion.
As for the reason why it's required, at the time Masonry really came about.
During the enlightenment period and earlier Religion was a really large part of people's lives, still is for many people.
As for naming a female versions of Freemasonry, I already have, listed several sites in fact.

Local works by Mason's are usually up on the Lodge's site, and are hard to find out about unless you either participate in them, or you see them advertised.
The hospitals and such that are funded by Masons may or may not have Masons on the staff.
Oh, forgoodness sakes, you're not even a Mason.

Take a hike over to the Freemasonry site and maybe they'll let you in.
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  #106  
Old 12-10-2008, 02:16 AM
VillageIdiot VillageIdiot is offline
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Never claimed to be a Mason, but you've been making claims against them, with no small bit of vitriol.
As for wanting to be a Mason, true, it's something i've considered, and maybe something I'll try after a while. However I'm not much for teams, or for ritual, to be honest with you.
I just got fascinated by the stuff people say about the group.
As for your disdain for me instead of actually replying, I was hoping for some more acidic wit.
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  #107  
Old 12-15-2008, 02:39 PM
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KSigMason KSigMason is offline
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Default Re: Introduction

Because I have a quick second I'll respond to a few posts. I'll be back on after Friday. I know BlueAngel, you must be thrilled.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
From whom does this organization receive their money in order to support medical research, children's charities, orphanages, etc?
From the individual brothers usually. At the base of my desk is a donation box for the Blue Lodge. In the York Rite we pass around a bowl for donations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
What type of fundraising do they do?
A popular one we do in Boise is breakfast fundraiser. We do pretty well out of that. We do raffles sometimes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
I've never received anything in my mailbox; heard anything on the television asking for donations to the Freemason Society so they can assist children's charities, medical research and orphanages.
A lot of Charities or donation are anonymous. I know this year a rural Lodge is helping out less fortunate families in the are with food, presents, and clothes. I'm going to ask my Lodge to do the same with about 9 unfortunate families in our area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Freemasonry states that it is not a religion, but all members must be of a religion to join and atheists are not accepted, so it is a RELIGION.
Again, no it's not. I've posted tons of information on this. It has no dogma, no salvation, no religious tenets. It's not a religion. It's just a requirement. It's not that a hard of a concept.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
IF THEIR MEMBERS MUST BE OF A RELIGION, FREEMASONRY is a religion.
Invalid argument. Non sequitar.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
If Freemasonry is not a religion, why do the members need to be of a religion to join?
Because you take an oath and it wouldn't be considered binding unless you believe in a higher power.
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  #108  
Old 12-15-2008, 06:14 PM
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KSigMason KSigMason is offline
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Alright BlueAngel, what I am about to post comes from the Idaho Masonic Monitor (our ritual book). I know what I’m allowed to post so I will not be violating any part of my Obligation, nor the Code & Digest of my Grand Jurisdiction. Everything within quotations is from the book.

Installation ceremony:

Quote:
Masonry teaches Brotherhood, morality, justice, tolerance, citizenship and the importance of education. It espouses freedom of ideas, freedom of religious choice, and freedom of expression.


Quote:
Freemasonry is religious in character, but it is not a religion. It has no theology and does not teach any method of salvation. It’s lone requirement concerning religion is that all its members must express a belief in a Supreme Being.

Quote:
It respects the right of all men to practice the religion of their choice, and this freedom is so cherished by Masons that it is strictly forbidden to discuss religion at our meetings, since a members religious belief is his own private business. It is non-political, and like religion, the discussion of partisan politics at its meetings is also strictly forbidden


SIDENOTE: Sorry, a little ADD just struck me, but Worshipful and Right Worshipful were used to describe Mayors and Magistrates back in older British times where many of our rituals were written. I did a little research on that a month ago, but forgot to post it.

When the Worshipful Master is installed he is asked to conform to the following charges/duties/regulations. Here are some of them:

Quote:
I: You are to be a good man and true, and strictly to obey the moral law.

II: You agree to be a peaceful citizen, and cheerfully to conform to the laws of the country in which you reside.

III: You promise not to be concerned in plots and conspiracies against government, but patiently to submit to the decisions of the supreme legislature.

IV: You agree to pay a proper respect to the civil magistrate, to work diligently, live creditably, and act honorably by all men.

XI: You admit that it is not in the power of any man or body of men, to make innovations in the body of Freemasons.
The last one, XI, proves that there is no greater order, inner circle, or knowledge/ritual than that which comes from this book and if there is one then it is not recognized by the Brethren and would not by me, to include my Lodge.


The jewel of the Worshipful Master’s station is the SQUARE.

Quote:
That, my Brother, is an emblem of morality

1st Degree Lecture:

The whole climbing the ladder comes from here:

Quote:
…your ambitious feet may tread round after round the ladder that leads to fame in our mystic circle, and even the purple of our Fraternity may rest upon your honored shoulders.

Quote:
You were presented with a Lambskin apron because the lamb, in all ages, has been deemed an emblem of innocence. He, therefore, who wears the lambskin as the badge of a Mason is continually reminded of that purity of life…


Quote:
…the three principle rounds of which are denominated Faith, Hope, and Charity; which admonish us to have faith in God, hope of immortality, and charity for all mankind. The greatest of these is Charity.

Quote:
…Charity extends beyond the grave through the boundless realms of eternity.

Quote:
TRUTH is a divine attribute, and the foundation of every virtue. To be good and true is the first lesson we are taught in Freemasonry. On this theme we contemplate, and by its dictates endeavor to regulate our conduct. Hence while influenced by this principle, hypocrisy and deceit are unknown among us; sincerity and plain dealings distinguish us; and, with heart and tongue, we join in promoting each other’s welfare and rejoicing in each other’s prosperity.


Freemasonry has 4-Cardinal Virtues. Here are some excerpts:

Temperance:

Quote:
This virtue should be the constant practice of every Mason, as he is thereby taught to avoid excess or the contracting of any licentious or vicious habits.

2nd Degree Lecture:

Quote:
By Speculative Masonry we learn to subdue the passions, act upon the Square, keep a tongue of good report, maintain secrecy, and practice charity.

2nd Degree Charge:

Quote:
Freemasonry is a progressive moral science divided into different degrees…


There is so much more to post, but I don’t have the time to write it all out.
After opening the Lodge we always do the Pledge of Allegiance to the American Flag.


All this I have posted, to the rational thinking mind, would see the Craft for what it is, a group of men doing good work.
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Last edited by KSigMason : 12-15-2008 at 10:45 PM.
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  #109  
Old 12-15-2008, 10:53 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VillageIdiot View Post
Never claimed to be a Mason, but you've been making claims against them, with no small bit of vitriol.
As for wanting to be a Mason, true, it's something i've considered, and maybe something I'll try after a while. However I'm not much for teams, or for ritual, to be honest with you.
I just got fascinated by the stuff people say about the group.
As for your disdain for me instead of actually replying, I was hoping for some more acidic wit.
What is your problem?

Why do you continue to assert that I have made claims against the Masons when I have not.

I have no disdain for you.
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  #110  
Old 12-15-2008, 10:59 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Thanks for all that information, but I really don't have the time nor do I have the desire to debate with you any longer about FREEMASONRY cause you're just a low man on the totem pole who has no clue as to the higher structure of this secret society.

Freemasonry is a religion because it requires one be of a religion to join.

PERIOD.

You can say it isn't, but you're lying to yourself.

I'm a busy woman and I'm about to become even more busy so have a nice life.
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