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  #11  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:16 PM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!


Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
Astronut, you ask why the Moon still exists if UV could destroy every single bond it has? You may be a keen amateur astronomer keen on educating others but your knowledge of science is just awful. For a start the Moon could still exist in elemental form,
"Elemental" form? So the moon has no chemical bonds, it's just a bunch of unbound atoms? It should be rapidly eroding away under the radiation pressure of the solar wind (not to mention what would happen every time a major collision occurs with the moon) if that's the case, so now whose science is awful? In fact, when LCROSS strikes the moon in october, if it's just a bunch of unbound atoms, that should become immediately obvious in the morphology and spectrum of the dust (or unbound atom) plume.
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however you misread or ignored what I clearly stated in my original post. UV light only affects the surfaces of solid objects such as the Moon.
Umm, contradict yourself much? If UV affects the surface of solid objects such as the moon in the way you describe, then my points about the moon stand... In truth, light can affect any phase of an element (heat it, etc). Also, as stated, many bonds, like that of titanium-titanium bonds, are far greater in energy than UV light.
Quote:
You claim to have websites with your pictures of the ISS on but where are they? The first picture you show us of the ISS you took has no text at all attached to it.
I thought the picture I showed was pretty self-explanatory. I didn't come here to plug my own website, I came to counter your misinformation about what you can see when you look at the space station with a proper telescope at an appropriate magnification with proper technique. Not that it matters, but here's my flickr page with some of my best photos. Some are of ISS, some are of the shuttle, many are just general astrophotography, and a few are from my lame attempt at game modding:
Flickr: astroferg's Photostream


Last edited by Astronut : 07-16-2009 at 11:23 PM.
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  #12  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:20 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

What are your pictures intended to prove or disprove?
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  #13  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:29 PM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
What are your pictures intended to prove or disprove?
They're intended to prove that the International Space Station is not fake and is not a big white balloon decoy in orbit as has been claimed by the OP. I don't know what, if anything, he saw, but he seems to want to see all of my pictures with textual descriptions of each. They're there for him or anyone else who doubts the reality of ISS. Perhaps he was using far too little magnification to make out the structure, perhaps he was looking at the wrong satellite, I don't know. What I do know is that time and time again I've looked at the space station myself, sometimes by eye, sometimes by camera, and every time I see it (truly nothing can quite do justice to the first hand view), it's revealed to be a breathtaking space station with large solar panels, shiny radiator panels, and silvery habitation modules.
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  #14  
Old 07-16-2009, 11:45 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronut View Post
They're intended to prove that the International Space Station is not fake and is not a big white balloon decoy in orbit as has been claimed by the OP. I don't know what, if anything, he saw, but he seems to want to see all of my pictures with textual descriptions of each. They're there for him or anyone else who doubts the reality of ISS. Perhaps he was using far too little magnification to make out the structure, perhaps he was looking at the wrong satellite, I don't know. What I do know is that time and time again I've looked at the space station myself, sometimes by eye, sometimes by camera, and every time I see it (truly nothing can quite do justice to the first hand view), it's revealed to be a breathtaking space station with large solar panels, shiny radiator panels, and silvery habitation modules.
Sorry, but your pictures don't prove anything.

How do you see the space station by EYE?

You just look up in the sky with your EYE and see it?

Actually, I could care less whether the ISS exists or doesn't.

Just another "USELESS" conspiracy.

But, please.

Don't let me distract you and the original poster from continuing with your debate.

Like I said.

I could care less whether the ISS exists or not and I'm certain that most of the world could care less, as well.

More important issues at hand.

What are they doing up there, anyway?

Whatever it is, I don't see that any of it has benefited mankind.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 07-16-2009 at 11:53 PM.
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  #15  
Old 07-17-2009, 01:40 AM
Leonardo Leonardo is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Actually, BA, the correct idiom is to say, "I couldn't care less." Because if you "could care less", this implies that you could have more contempt than you do now. And that just defeats the whole purpose of the statement.

Thank you.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves.
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  #16  
Old 07-17-2009, 08:45 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Sorry, but your pictures don't prove anything.
Actually it proves that for ISS to be a hoax, amateur astronomers like myself would have to be a part of the conspiracy. That's why the OP immediately insinuated that I might be a NASA employee.
Quote:
How do you see the space station by EYE?

You just look up in the sky with your EYE and see it?
If you're not using a telescope, just your eye, it'll look like a rapidly moving bright star, which could just as easily be the OP's ballon as it could be the space station seen in my pictures of it.
Quote:
Actually, I could care less whether the ISS exists or doesn't.

Just another "USELESS" conspiracy.
Fine, then why did you post on the thread? It matters to me a great deal, because it directly contradicts what I've seen and attested to with photos; if the OP is correct then I must be a habitual liar or conspirator.
Quote:
I could care less whether the ISS exists or not and I'm certain that most of the world could care less, as well.
US citizens (as well as Russians, Italians, Canadians, etc) who are paying for the space station should care.
Quote:
What are they doing up there, anyway?

Whatever it is, I don't see that any of it has benefited mankind.
The research done in space has provided many benefits to mankind, most of which are taken for granted on a daily basis. Many came out of Apollo, some from the shuttle, but ISS actually has resulted in a good number of scientific publications by itself.
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  #17  
Old 07-17-2009, 01:42 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

To clear up the point Astronut I was trying to tell you that UV light ONLY AFFECTS THE SURFACES OF SOLID OBJECTS. Got it yet? That's why the Moon wouldn't disappear as soon as UV light ionized its surfaces.

The Earth's upper atmosphere is comprised entirely of ionized gas as a result of the Sun's UV light and note the Earth's atmosphere simply doesn't fly off into space because of this!

Looking at your webpage with accompanying space images I couldn't help noticing you have taken pictures of the Space Shuttle taking off as well as a bald headed eagle! Are you absolutely certain you are not a patriotic NASA fan?

I'm afraid what I viewed through my telescope on numerous occasions cannot be explained away by poor focus or lack of magnification. The focus was checked carefully on each viewing and I could easily see the apparent diameter of the spherical object and calculate its actual diameter to be around 40 metres about the same as quoted for the ISS.

Incidentally could I asked what tracking you used with the moving image you showed us which is allegedly of the ISS? Was it manual or computer driven as the image is a little erratic?
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  #18  
Old 07-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
To clear up the point Astronut I was trying to tell you that UV light ONLY AFFECTS THE SURFACES OF SOLID OBJECTS. Got it yet? That's why the Moon wouldn't disappear as soon as UV light ionized its surfaces.
The moon is a solid object... if it's not, LCROSS will be a dud.
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The Earth's upper atmosphere is comprised entirely of ionized gas as a result of the Sun's UV light and note the Earth's atmosphere simply doesn't fly off into space because of this!
Yeah, and the bonds of O3 are much easier to break than the bonds of titanium...
Quote:
Looking at your webpage with accompanying space images I couldn't help noticing you have taken pictures of the Space Shuttle taking off as well as a bald headed eagle! Are you absolutely certain you are not a patriotic NASA fan?
Moving the goalposts. First it was that I was a NASA employee, and now it's a crime to be a NASA fan? Yes, I'm patriotic, yes I enjoy NASA as it relates to my hobby, but I'd be the first to cry foul if ISS didn't look right in my telescope.
Quote:
I'm afraid what I viewed through my telescope on numerous occasions cannot be explained away by poor focus or lack of magnification. The focus was checked carefully on each viewing and I could easily see the apparent diameter of the spherical object and calculate its actual diameter to be around 40 metres about the same as quoted for the ISS.
Well, whatever you're doing wrong doesn't disprove a postive result, and many amateurs including me have gotten positive results. If you were to see it in person would it convince you any more than a picture?
Quote:
Incidentally could I asked what tracking you used with the moving image you showed us which is allegedly of the ISS? Was it manual or computer driven as the image is a little erratic?
I used computer tracking; Satellite Tracker software by Brent Boshart. It's erratic because there's a lag between issuing a command to the computer to center it up and it being reflected in the tracking of the scope. There's also the issue that whenever the computer "hiccups" and accesses the hard drive the tracking shuts off for a split second before resuming. Getting it to stay on ISS at an equivalent of 200x or so is easy:
Getting it to do that with a 640x480 tiny little chip in a cheap webcam-style video camera at the equivalent of about 400x is difficult due to the tiny field of view and imperfections in the telescope's gears. If you were using an eyepiece with a good field of view like a 9mm Nagler though (even with a 2x barlow), it'd be as easy as the above video.

Last edited by Astronut : 07-17-2009 at 02:16 PM.
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  #19  
Old 07-17-2009, 10:17 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Seriously, do we really have to listen to a debate about whether or not the Space Shuttle and ISS are a HOAX between two CC members who both claim that they are EXPERTS in this field and that field and, for all we know, they attain no knowledge at all about the ISS or space shuttle and are not the experts they want us to believe that they are regardless of their fancy scientific writings.

I'm going to have to start collecting credentials at the door before entry is permitted.

Kindly explain what purpose this HOAX would serve.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 07-17-2009 at 10:24 PM.
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  #20  
Old 07-17-2009, 11:03 PM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Thumbs down Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Seriously, do we really have to listen to a debate about whether or not the Space Shuttle and ISS are a HOAX
No one forced you to click on the thread. I promise we'll keep the discussion to just this thread.
Quote:
between two CC members who both claim that they are EXPERTS in this field and that field and, for all we know, they attain no knowledge at all about the ISS or space shuttle and are not the experts they want us to believe that they are regardless of their fancy scientific writings.

I'm going to have to start collecting credentials at the door before entry is permitted.
I've spent the last 13 years in amateur astronomy, I was a manager at a local observatory for the public after volunteering at the observatory in college. I trained their personnel on how to operate the telescopes and locate objects. I even had to show my boss how to get focused images out of a Coronado PST (personal solar telescope).

I'm not the best astrophotographer in the world by any means, and in fact there are plenty of guys out there who can take a far clearer picture of the space station than I can, but I've observed the space station close enough to make out the solar panels and modules, and it's not a balloon decoy. I don't know if that makes me an expert, but I would say that I'm competent.
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Kindly explain what purpose this HOAX would serve.
I'll leave that to alexander since he's the one proposing the hoax exists.
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