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  #61  
Old 08-01-2009, 07:16 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!


Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0ND View Post
Rather than ask you to repeat your reasons why you believe this, I'll check out the forums to catch up on the thread. Should be entertaining, to say the least.
I don't believe it to be a HOAX.

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  #62  
Old 08-02-2009, 04:56 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Personally I still think you're not using enough magnification to resolve it, but because you don't use computerized tracking and you're trying to view it directly, you don't have a choice in the matter.
With the eyepiece and magnification I was using I was easily able to resolve the rings of Saturn which has a similar apparent diameter to the ISS, and yet I could see no angular projections. The conclusion I came to is that this was because there were none.

It is also the case that whenever I have viewed the ISS, which is many times now, I have never witnessed any flashes as the silvery object catches the Sun. How do you explain this? Distant aircraft sometimes catch the Sun when it is low on the horizon suddenly bringing them into view and these aircraft don't even have the shiney surfaces the ISS is said to have.

And how do you explain the fact that the object I observed is always a pale yellow colour? These video images you show allegedly of the ISS are all white in colour.

Quote:
There are at least hundreds of amateurs from all over the world who are capable of photographing ISS in their telescopes, and they all show the same thing.
And how do you know there are hundreds of amateur's all over the world who have seen this based upon these few images on YouTube? What about all the amateurs who have seen what I saw? How many of them fit into this category, thousands, tens of thousands? How do you know what the stats are, you were just using empty rhetoric.
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  #63  
Old 08-02-2009, 05:02 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
I'm certain that when the Space Shuttle exploded in mid-air back in the early 1980's and everyone on board died, it was a HOAX.
I certainly agree with you BlueAngel. NASA were fully aware of the dangers of the O-rings at the low temperatures that were encountered on the launch pad that day so they knew the accident was going to happen before it did. But who would ever have let such a thing happen if there were real people on board that thing that day?

The whole thing was so fishy even the FBI were forced to look into the matter, not that the investigation came to anything.
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  #64  
Old 08-02-2009, 01:17 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by galexander View Post
I certainly agree with you BlueAngel. NASA were fully aware of the dangers of the O-rings at the low temperatures that were encountered on the launch pad that day so they knew the accident was going to happen before it did. But who would ever have let such a thing happen if there were real people on board that thing that day?

The whole thing was so fishy even the FBI were forced to look into the matter, not that the investigation came to anything.
Oh, please.

Re-read my post.

To reiterate.

I DO NOT BELIEVE THE SPACE SHUTTLE AND ISS TO BE A HOAX.

I shouldn't presume that new posters to this forum are familiar with my sarcasm.

Before your comment to me, I stated to GRUND that I didn't believe the Space Shuttle and/or ISS to be a HOAX after he didn't recognize my sarcasm.

Even though I made my opinion clear to him and everyone else, including you, who reads this thread, you posted a comment to me as if I wasn't clear.
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  #65  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:00 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
I'm certain that when the Space Shuttle exploded in mid-air back in the early 1980's and everyone on board died, it was a HOAX.
I saw it happen with my own eyes from my front lawn, certain family members of mine retained a piece of the debris recovered from the ocean floor (probably not legally), it was not a hoax. If this is sarcasm you really should try harder to denote it as such.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 08-05-2009 at 09:57 PM.
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  #66  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:21 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by galexander View Post
With the eyepiece and magnification
What eyepiece and magnification, what stage of ISS's construction? I know what ISS looks like at various magnifications, so I'll know if you're BS'ing me or not.
Quote:
It is also the case that whenever I have viewed the ISS, which is many times now, I have never witnessed any flashes as the silvery object catches the Sun.
ISS is massive, you wouldn't be able to see quick little "flashes" unless you resolved it very effectively because the vast majority of its brightness doesn't come from specular highlights (thus its appearance is unaffected when you're not resolving it as anything more than a point of light), plus because it's actively tracking the sun, its orientation with respect to the sun doesn't quickly change, so any change in brightness is gradual and not conspicuous. You can get glints though, as in this picture:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1057/...31c4a242_o.jpg
Note the star-like reflection off the radiator on the left side by the solar array.
Quote:
And how do you explain the fact that the object I observed is always a pale yellow colour? These video images you show allegedly of the ISS are all white in colour.
Sounds like you mixed the color of the amber solar arrays with the white of the habitat modules. Either you're defocused, not using enough magnification, or just plain BS'ing about telescopically tracking it.
Quote:
And how do you know there are hundreds of amateur's all over the world who have seen this based upon these few images on YouTube?
"A few" - so just how many do I have to waste my time posting when I know for a fact you'll just arbitrarily move the goal post back further saying "that's not enough." There are many of us, we swap tips over other forums dedicated to satellite tracking and astronomy, and not once have I heard anyone ever complain about ISS looking like a pale yellow ball.
Quote:
What about all the amateurs who have seen what I saw?
Right now all I have is you and your word that some idiot flat earther saw what you claim to have seen while tracking it telescopically.
Quote:
How many of them fit into this category, thousands, tens of thousands?
If there are tens of thousands, where are all the videos and pictures? Where are all the complaints on message boards? Right now all I see is you.
Quote:
How do you know what the stats are, you were just using empty rhetoric.
There are currently 2,031 members of a group dedicated to satellite tracking using the software I use. Never once have I heard a single complaint from ANYONE who says they tracked ISS successfully but couldn't resolve the solar panels.
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  #67  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:25 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by GR0ND View Post
Astronut, you have more than met the burden of proof. What's more, I've enjoyed your photographs of the space station, the shuttle...and the bald eagle. Heck, I didn't even know that hobbyist telescopes could resolve the station and I find it fascinating. Wow, thanks for the education.
Thanks Gr0nd, I'm glad I could share the view. That makes it all worth it.
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  #68  
Old 08-03-2009, 11:35 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
ISS is massive, you wouldn't be able to see quick little "flashes" unless you resolved it very effectively because the vast majority of its brightness doesn't come from specular highlights (thus its appearance is unaffected when you're not resolving it as anything more than a point of light), plus because it's actively tracking the sun, its orientation with respect to the sun doesn't quickly change, so any change in brightness is gradual and not conspicuous. You can get glints though, as in this picture:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1057/...31c4a242_o.jpg
Note the star-like reflection off the radiator on the left side by the solar array.
Astronut, you are wrong. Reflections from the Sun off a shiney silvery surface can be huge. The example I gave of distant aircraft that are barely visible to the naked eye suddenly drawing our attention as they 'flash' momentarily in the Sun's light, shows the effect is significant. Besides I myself have seen other Earth satellites glint or 'flash' in the Sun. The effect is most certainly noticeable. So why doesn't the ISS do the same?

Quote:
There are currently 2,031 members of a group dedicated to satellite tracking using the software I use. Never once have I heard a single complaint from ANYONE who says they tracked ISS successfully but couldn't resolve the solar panels.
Perhaps they are too shy to point the fact out just in case someone accuses them of not having their telescope in focus! Either that or someone has arranged to have their comments censured.

And also, while I remember, why is it these other images of the ISS you have shown us are all so steady and aren't moving all over the place in an apparently random fashion? What was the explanation you gave for this again Astronut? Something about a Barlow lens and a hard drive hiccuping?
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  #69  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:18 PM
GR0ND GR0ND is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

galexander,
If the Space Station were a hoax, wouldn't some organizaton or government, interested in the embarressment of the participating nations or with a simple since of honesty, expose the hoax long ago? I mean, North Korea probably has some pretty nice telescopes, much better than the ones a hobbyist could afford.

Maybe the question would be better put... what evidence would you accept as proof, or are your conclusions set and immovable?
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  #70  
Old 08-03-2009, 07:17 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astronut View Post
I saw it happen with my own eyes from my front lawn, certain family members of mine retained a piece of the debris recovered from the ocean floor (probably not legally), it was not a hoax. If this is sarcasm you really should try harder to denote it as such.
Good grief!

You might want to read the comment I posted that sits atop your comment.

I don't need to try harder to denote anything, but thank you for your advice, anyway.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 08-03-2009 at 07:37 PM.
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