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  #51  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:00 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!


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Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
I'm certain that when the Space Shuttle exploded in mid-air back in the early 1980's and everyone on board died, it was a HOAX.
I saw it happen with my own eyes from my front lawn, certain family members of mine retained a piece of the debris recovered from the ocean floor (probably not legally), it was not a hoax. If this is sarcasm you really should try harder to denote it as such.


Last edited by BlueAngel : 08-05-2009 at 09:57 PM.
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  #52  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:21 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by galexander View Post
With the eyepiece and magnification
What eyepiece and magnification, what stage of ISS's construction? I know what ISS looks like at various magnifications, so I'll know if you're BS'ing me or not.
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It is also the case that whenever I have viewed the ISS, which is many times now, I have never witnessed any flashes as the silvery object catches the Sun.
ISS is massive, you wouldn't be able to see quick little "flashes" unless you resolved it very effectively because the vast majority of its brightness doesn't come from specular highlights (thus its appearance is unaffected when you're not resolving it as anything more than a point of light), plus because it's actively tracking the sun, its orientation with respect to the sun doesn't quickly change, so any change in brightness is gradual and not conspicuous. You can get glints though, as in this picture:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1057/...31c4a242_o.jpg
Note the star-like reflection off the radiator on the left side by the solar array.
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And how do you explain the fact that the object I observed is always a pale yellow colour? These video images you show allegedly of the ISS are all white in colour.
Sounds like you mixed the color of the amber solar arrays with the white of the habitat modules. Either you're defocused, not using enough magnification, or just plain BS'ing about telescopically tracking it.
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And how do you know there are hundreds of amateur's all over the world who have seen this based upon these few images on YouTube?
"A few" - so just how many do I have to waste my time posting when I know for a fact you'll just arbitrarily move the goal post back further saying "that's not enough." There are many of us, we swap tips over other forums dedicated to satellite tracking and astronomy, and not once have I heard anyone ever complain about ISS looking like a pale yellow ball.
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What about all the amateurs who have seen what I saw?
Right now all I have is you and your word that some idiot flat earther saw what you claim to have seen while tracking it telescopically.
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How many of them fit into this category, thousands, tens of thousands?
If there are tens of thousands, where are all the videos and pictures? Where are all the complaints on message boards? Right now all I see is you.
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How do you know what the stats are, you were just using empty rhetoric.
There are currently 2,031 members of a group dedicated to satellite tracking using the software I use. Never once have I heard a single complaint from ANYONE who says they tracked ISS successfully but couldn't resolve the solar panels.
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  #53  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:25 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by GR0ND View Post
Astronut, you have more than met the burden of proof. What's more, I've enjoyed your photographs of the space station, the shuttle...and the bald eagle. Heck, I didn't even know that hobbyist telescopes could resolve the station and I find it fascinating. Wow, thanks for the education.
Thanks Gr0nd, I'm glad I could share the view. That makes it all worth it.
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  #54  
Old 08-03-2009, 11:35 AM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
ISS is massive, you wouldn't be able to see quick little "flashes" unless you resolved it very effectively because the vast majority of its brightness doesn't come from specular highlights (thus its appearance is unaffected when you're not resolving it as anything more than a point of light), plus because it's actively tracking the sun, its orientation with respect to the sun doesn't quickly change, so any change in brightness is gradual and not conspicuous. You can get glints though, as in this picture:
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1057/...31c4a242_o.jpg
Note the star-like reflection off the radiator on the left side by the solar array.
Astronut, you are wrong. Reflections from the Sun off a shiney silvery surface can be huge. The example I gave of distant aircraft that are barely visible to the naked eye suddenly drawing our attention as they 'flash' momentarily in the Sun's light, shows the effect is significant. Besides I myself have seen other Earth satellites glint or 'flash' in the Sun. The effect is most certainly noticeable. So why doesn't the ISS do the same?

Quote:
There are currently 2,031 members of a group dedicated to satellite tracking using the software I use. Never once have I heard a single complaint from ANYONE who says they tracked ISS successfully but couldn't resolve the solar panels.
Perhaps they are too shy to point the fact out just in case someone accuses them of not having their telescope in focus! Either that or someone has arranged to have their comments censured.

And also, while I remember, why is it these other images of the ISS you have shown us are all so steady and aren't moving all over the place in an apparently random fashion? What was the explanation you gave for this again Astronut? Something about a Barlow lens and a hard drive hiccuping?
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  #55  
Old 08-03-2009, 06:18 PM
GR0ND GR0ND is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

galexander,
If the Space Station were a hoax, wouldn't some organizaton or government, interested in the embarressment of the participating nations or with a simple since of honesty, expose the hoax long ago? I mean, North Korea probably has some pretty nice telescopes, much better than the ones a hobbyist could afford.

Maybe the question would be better put... what evidence would you accept as proof, or are your conclusions set and immovable?
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  #56  
Old 08-04-2009, 07:13 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by galexander View Post
Astronut, you are wrong. Reflections from the Sun off a shiney silvery surface can be huge. The example I gave of distant aircraft that are barely visible to the naked eye suddenly drawing our attention as they 'flash' momentarily in the Sun's light,
First of all, you're talking about conditions in broad daylight, second of all, an airplane's surfaces are much more flat and reflective than the surfaces on ISS save for the radiators, lastly and most importantly, a plane is not a point light source, ISS is unless you're looking at it through a telescope.
Quote:
Besides I myself have seen other Earth satellites glint or 'flash' in the Sun.
The only other satellites that routinely do so are Iridium satellites with their large mirror-like antennae which account for most of their brightness, and even then you must be correctly positioned with just the right timing to see it.
Quote:
Perhaps they are too shy to point the fact out just in case someone accuses them of not having their telescope in focus! Either that or someone has arranged to have their comments censured.
I haven't censored any of your comments, what are you complaining for?
Quote:
And also, while I remember, why is it these other images of the ISS you have shown us are all so steady and aren't moving all over the place in an apparently random fashion? What was the explanation you gave for this again Astronut? Something about a Barlow lens and a hard drive hiccuping?
Are you talking about other people's videos? I know Mike Tyrell and most others will register their images before assembling them into a video; they move the images to center ISS in each frame of the video to make it easier to look at. I don't alter my videos unless it's a time lapse (the only thing I will do is trim out excess empty parts of the video for the sake of time). Still accusing us of lying, you're incredible.

Last edited by Astronut : 08-04-2009 at 07:15 AM.
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  #57  
Old 08-04-2009, 12:09 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
Originally Posted by GR0ND View Post
galexander,
If the Space Station were a hoax, wouldn't some organizaton or government, interested in the embarressment of the participating nations or with a simple since of honesty, expose the hoax long ago? I mean, North Korea probably has some pretty nice telescopes, much better than the ones a hobbyist could afford.

Maybe the question would be better put... what evidence would you accept as proof, or are your conclusions set and immovable?
Unfortunately I find this a little naive of you GROND. Look at the influence of the US across the globe as a superpower and who is going to listen to COMMUNIST PROPAGANDA? During Apollo 11 the Dutch press went very public in exposing the hoax but then seemed to change their tune. I wonder why?

And think also how NASA could have peddled influence over the years especially when you consider all the billions in spare cash they have!
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  #58  
Old 08-04-2009, 01:19 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

Quote:
First of all, you're talking about conditions in broad daylight, second of all, an airplane's surfaces are much more flat and reflective than the surfaces on ISS save for the radiators, lastly and most importantly, a plane is not a point light source, ISS is unless you're looking at it through a telescope.
That's just rubbish Astronut! There is nothing flat about the surfaces of an aeoroplane and the ISS is meant to have shiney metallic surfaces on it which would produce blindingly bright glares on it.

Quote:
The only other satellites that routinely do so are Iridium satellites with their large mirror-like antennae which account for most of their brightness, and even then you must be correctly positioned with just the right timing to see it.
Rubbish yet again Astronut. I have seen the ENVISAT satellite blinking on and off as it span out of control during those solar storms we had several years ago. I contacted the press about this but never got a reply. So its not just the Iridium satellites.

You have made so many mistakes so far Astronut that I am extremely doubtful as to your authenticity as the dedicated astronomer you claim. We've been treated to an incorrect definition of bond energy, an incorrect value for the bond energy of titanium oxide and the Moon evaporating in the Sun's UV light! Indeed all the evidence so far suggest that you are the TROLL Astronut and not myself.
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  #59  
Old 08-05-2009, 07:14 AM
Astronut Astronut is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

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Originally Posted by galexander View Post
That's just rubbish Astronut! There is nothing flat about the surfaces of an aeoroplane
Compare the hull of an airplane to that of ISS and you'll find the former to be far more smooth.
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and the ISS is meant to have shiney metallic surfaces on it which would produce blindingly bright glares on it.
Blindingly bright? Quite the claim, prove it.
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Rubbish yet again Astronut. I have seen the ENVISAT satellite blinking on and off as it span out of control during those solar storms we had several years ago.
You're comparing a tumbling satellite to a gyro stabilized one? Are you nuts? Oh, I forgot, yes. Apples and oranges, ISS isn't tumbling out of control.
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I contacted the press about this but never got a reply.
Cause they probably identified you as a nut.
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So its not just the Iridium satellites.
Gee, who would have thought you'd be foolish enough to compare a tumbling piece of junk to ISS? At least iridium sats are usually stable.
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We've been treated to an incorrect definition of bond energy, an incorrect value for the bond energy of titanium oxide
You confuse the wikipedia definition of "bond energy" (as in the average dissociation energy) with the energy required to break a bond, then you troll me about semantics, and yet you don't apply this mistake to the moon for some reason. If the moon's atoms are not chemically bound at all but just held together by gravity, it would have evaporated away a long time ago. What do you call a gravitationally bound collection of individual unbonded atoms? A nebula, and even those usually contain some small molecules and dimers.
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  #60  
Old 08-05-2009, 12:08 PM
galexander galexander is offline
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Default Re: The Space Shuttle and the ISS are a Hoax!

About reflections of the Sun's light off the surface of the ISS, Astronut said the following:

Quote:
Blindingly bright? Quite the claim, prove it.
Polished metal is almost as reflective a surface as a glassed mirror. A schoolboy would have known this.

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You're comparing a tumbling satellite to a gyro stabilized one? Are you nuts? Oh, I forgot, yes. Apples and oranges, ISS isn't tumbling out of control.
Yes but what you didn't comment upon Astronut was why the ENVISAT was able to disappear completely between winks. The following night was even more interesting because its rate of rotation was much slower and the satellite 'flared' each time before disappearing again.

Quote:
If the moon's atoms are not chemically bound at all but just held together by gravity, it would have evaporated away a long time ago.
This last comment is an absolute classic! So what is the temperature of vaporization of silicon, calcium, phospherous and all the other minerals found on the Moon?
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