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  #41  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:15 AM
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Mr Blee Mr Blee is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax


Got to disagree commonsense, people have the right to know if they have been possibly exposed. And I highly doubt the hospital did this to stop mass panic, they do this to keep from getting their butts sued off.

The real loss was a gifted doctor is now not with us. I am very against homosexuality (the sin not the people). Here is a cool story my brother was an upity gay he didn't eat it if it wasn't high falutin food was against any contact sports. And i realy had a bad view of gays cause when I met his boyfriend he was pretty cool he liked boxing and loved tater tots. I told him I liked him better than my brother.

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  #42  
Old 10-20-2009, 07:46 PM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by Eye-Kon View Post
The conclusion that the disease jumped species somewhere between 1890 and 1928 is just an assumption. It doesn't dis-credit my arguement of it being a synthetic disease. The disease could have been made to have mutiple strains upon its release. Also, lies can be easily made up, I honestly think the 'regulators' do what ever seems appropriate to cover their tracks such as in-accurate articles. And btw your right, I have gotten most of my info from the internet. I've seen articles about tetra-silver that regard AIDS get removed from search engines, forums etc over and over again. I can't even post anything about tetra-silver on AIDS forum about how it could possibly be a cure with out it being removed with in 5 minutes. I see this as a tell-tale sign of it being the truth. I see multiple other threads on those forums about possible cures. Internet censorship has been around since '05 btw. I also find it odd how Boyd Graves wikipedia profile was removed from the net about a year ago. Its also weird how he was found mysteriously shot in his home about a year ago, this incident was labled as a suicide, hell I'm having trouble finding that article now.
Yeah, it is an assumption, but not one without merit as you are trying so desperately assert. And resorting to special pleading of a conspiracy is silly. You yourself say you have gotten most of your info from the internet, info which is far more likely to be wildly inaccurate that anything published in a peer reviewed Journal. Spend at least a little bit of time in them before going around trying to debunk the hard science.
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Last edited by BlueAngel : 10-20-2009 at 09:02 PM.
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  #43  
Old 10-20-2009, 09:02 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
Yeah, it is an assumption, but not one without merit as you are trying so desperately assert. And resorting to special pleading of a conspiracy is silly. You yourself say you have gotten most of your info from the internet, info which is far more likely to be wildly inaccurate that anything published in a peer reviewed Journal. Spend at least a little bit of time in them before going around trying to debunk the hard science.
Oh, stop it already with the peer reviewed journals.

As if this makes you an expert on anything and, as if everything published by the SCIENTIFIC community is to be considered as FACT.
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  #44  
Old 10-21-2009, 06:54 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Mr Blee- sorry for your loss. Telling past patients that their doctor may have had HIV would be a bad idea, think of the mass panic - having to wait weeks for the results.

Eye-Kon- one of your strong points for a man-made HIV virus was that zoonosis was not possible, but now you agree with me that it is entirely possible for a monkey to pass the virus on? Although this doesn't discount your theory, it makes it an awful lot harder to swallow. It is much more likely a human caught the virus from a monkey, now this doesn't mean a human had sex with a monkey. A more realistic senario would be the preperation of a monkey for a meal, during the slaughtering infected blood could enter the human blood stream - BINGO - HIV zoonosis.
I went through those articles and I couldn't find any where it said that it was certain HIV could perform zoonosis. Even if you can find an article it still doesn't mean its true. I also never agreed it could perform zoonosis I just said it was a possibility. Is there actually any records of people contracting AIDS/HIV from a monkey to this day? Besides the so called introduction of AIDS? You would think other people would still be getting it from monkeys in Africa rarely if it happend once already. Oh and thanks for ignoring my information on Boyd Graves. Trying looking up the "The Special Cancer Virus Program" if you can even find anymore these days you'll see this program clearly lays out the development of AIDS and how to make essentially a contagious cancer. You'll also notice the report sugests introducing this 'cancer virus' in to the public domain through vaccinations. I'm not asking you guys to totally buy my theory, however its illogical to not even consider it. I'm not MD or scientist, but you don't have to be to read through lines.
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  #45  
Old 10-21-2009, 08:42 AM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Oh, stop it already with the peer reviewed journals.

As if this makes you an expert on anything and, as if everything published by the SCIENTIFIC community is to be considered as FACT.
As if Eyekon, or yourself, are experts from reading WOO websites on the internet. See you next Tuesday.
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  #46  
Old 10-21-2009, 08:57 AM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eye-Kon View Post
I went through those articles and I couldn't find any where it said that it was certain HIV could perform zoonosis. Even if you can find an article it still doesn't mean its true. I also never agreed it could perform zoonosis I just said it was a possibility. Is there actually any records of people contracting AIDS/HIV from a monkey to this day? Besides the so called introduction of AIDS? You would think other people would still be getting it from monkeys in Africa rarely if it happend once already. Oh and thanks for ignoring my information on Boyd Graves. Trying looking up the "The Special Cancer Virus Program" if you can even find anymore these days you'll see this program clearly lays out the development of AIDS and how to make essentially a contagious cancer. You'll also notice the report sugests introducing this 'cancer virus' in to the public domain through vaccinations. I'm not asking you guys to totally buy my theory, however its illogical to not even consider it. I'm not MD or scientist, but you don't have to be to read through lines.
I looked up the Special Cancer Virus Program. Interesting stuff, though I couldn't help but notice the fact that most of the pages were typical Woo type sites with very little in the way of corroborating references. I would feel more comfortable if there were at least a few mainstream sources. Its not out of the realm of possibility though, since there are at least a handful of cancers known to be caused by viruses. As for zoonosis, it is true that the SIV2 is not the most readily capable organism for crossing the species barrier, but it does happen. All it takes is one Typhoid Mary.

"Despite the frequent human exposure to SIV-infected monkeys in Africa, only 10 cross-species transmission events have been documented and only four of these have resulted in successful human-to-human transmission, generating HIV-1 group M and group O, and HIV-2 groups A and B. The closest relatives of SIVcpz (HIV-1 group N) and of SIVsm (HIV-2 groups C through G) are extremely rare, with only six HIV-1 group N-infected patients and single individuals infected by HIV-2 groups C-G."
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  #47  
Old 10-21-2009, 02:31 PM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
You yourself say you have gotten most of your info from the internet, info which is far more likely to be wildly inaccurate that anything published in a peer reviewed Journal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueAngel View Post
Oh, stop it already with the peer reviewed journals.

As if this makes you an expert on anything and, as if everything published by the SCIENTIFIC community is to be considered as FACT.
Both of you have a point. Internet sources are often highly unreliable and should only be used when other sources are too hard to get or too expensive. On the other hand, peer reviewed journals tend to be biased on certain areas of science and therefore unlikely to give you a balanced view of the available evidence regarding those particular areas. Thus, both the person limiting himself to "conspiracy websites" and the person limiting himself to "peer reviewed journals" are only able to see on particular perspective of an issue and thereby risk being poorly informed.
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  #48  
Old 10-21-2009, 03:15 PM
commonsense commonsense is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

I'd have to disagree Out of the Box. Although you have a point about peer reviewed journals, it doesn't change the fact that they are peer reviewed by highly educated scientists. Ofcourse science is constantly evolving and many things that were once written in stone are now blatantly wrong. Basically most of the medical breakthroughs and major treatments have been based on the back of peer reviewed journals.
Now some wacky websites with no credible sources? It doesn't mean they're all wrong but without being able to differentiate between the bull and the truth....why even bother wasting your time.

BlueAngel, what's your issue with EireEngineer - although new to this forum your comments have all been harsh and immature toward him/her.
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  #49  
Old 10-21-2009, 03:53 PM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
I'd have to disagree Out of the Box. Although you have a point about peer reviewed journals, it doesn't change the fact that they are peer reviewed by highly educated scientists.
It doesn't change the facts that some scientists with controversial views like Peter Duesberg (known for his controversial theory on HIV and AIDS), Albert Hofmann (inventor of LSD and supporter of the legal use of LSD as medicine for the soul), Arthur Butz (Holocaust revisionist), Kevin MacDonald (evolutionary psychologist and critical expert on Jewish culture), J Philippe Rushton (psychologist specialised in intelligence and racial differences) or Tomislav Sunic (anticapitalist, anticommunist and antimulticulturalist political scientist) are not given an oportunity to publish their work not because the quality is poor but because the conclusion of their research is just too controversial for academia too handle. Modern science has been dilluded by an malign ideology that got hold of Western society during the late '60s. As such, some areas of science has returned to dogma on a way reminiscent of the Dark Ages.

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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Basically most of the medical breakthroughs and major treatments have been based on the back of peer reviewed journals.
It is only on some specific areas that science becomes dogmatic and political within academia. With regards to technology, censorship tends to be fairly mild in comparison with the heavily politicised social sciences.

Quote:
Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
Now some wacky websites with no credible sources? It doesn't mean they're all wrong but without being able to differentiate between the bull and the truth....why even bother wasting your time.
What about controversial websites that do provide a list of verifiable sources? What about video footage that shows us some controversial facts? Can they be ignored too, just because the mainstream rejects them?

The Internet doesn't always offer poor quality, just like peer reviews don't always offer scientific fact. Real life isn't as black-and-white as you like to pretend it is.

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Originally Posted by commonsense View Post
BlueAngel, what's your issue with EireEngineer - although new to this forum your comments have all been harsh and immature toward him/her.
Maybe because he calling himself an engineer and some of the arguments he makes could suggest he's one of those many arrogant self-proclaimed "sceptics" who love to "debunk" controversial theories using peer-reviewed propaganda by quoting unreliable mainstream sources like parrots and ignoring other people's arguments because they're quoting from a highly reputated mainstream source whereas the others are just quoting from some website, some Internet video or some book by a fairly unknown author... of course regardless of the quality of the sources but only judging by the reputation of the source. These people are both pretentious and arrogant because they are anything but sceptic as they swallow pretty much anything that's mainstream whereas they look down upon those who actually are sceptic and question everything (in this case both "conspiracy theories" and mainstream theories)
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  #50  
Old 10-21-2009, 08:22 PM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
It doesn't change the facts that some scientists with controversial views like Peter Duesberg (known for his controversial theory on HIV and AIDS), Albert Hofmann (inventor of LSD and supporter of the legal use of LSD as medicine for the soul), Arthur Butz (Holocaust revisionist), Kevin MacDonald (evolutionary psychologist and critical expert on Jewish culture), J Philippe Rushton (psychologist specialised in intelligence and racial differences) or Tomislav Sunic (anticapitalist, anticommunist and antimulticulturalist political scientist) are not given an oportunity to publish their work not because the quality is poor but because the conclusion of their research is just too controversial for academia too handle. Modern science has been dilluded by an malign ideology that got hold of Western society during the late '60s. As such, some areas of science has returned to dogma on a way reminiscent of the Dark Ages.



It is only on some specific areas that science becomes dogmatic and political within academia. With regards to technology, censorship tends to be fairly mild in comparison with the heavily politicised social sciences.



What about controversial websites that do provide a list of verifiable sources? What about video footage that shows us some controversial facts? Can they be ignored too, just because the mainstream rejects them?

The Internet doesn't always offer poor quality, just like peer reviews don't always offer scientific fact. Real life isn't as black-and-white as you like to pretend it is.



Maybe because he calling himself an engineer and some of the arguments he makes could suggest he's one of those many arrogant self-proclaimed "sceptics" who love to "debunk" controversial theories using peer-reviewed propaganda by quoting unreliable mainstream sources like parrots and ignoring other people's arguments because they're quoting from a highly reputated mainstream source whereas the others are just quoting from some website, some Internet video or some book by a fairly unknown author... of course regardless of the quality of the sources but only judging by the reputation of the source. These people are both pretentious and arrogant because they are anything but sceptic as they swallow pretty much anything that's mainstream whereas they look down upon those who actually are sceptic and question everything (in this case both "conspiracy theories" and mainstream theories)
First of all, its interesting that you say that their work "cannot be published". Obviously you were able to read them, so they must have been published somewhere. Theories that test the normal paradigm crop up all the time in the world of science. If they are testable, the peer review process will fairly quickly eliminate those ideas that are not tenable, and give at least preliminary confirmation to those that are. There is nothing "mainstream" or "non-mainstream" about the process, except of course for those that prefer to forgo the process altogether, like many of those in the flat earth/alternative medicine/conspiracy crowd.
As for your assertion that I will swallow anything thats mainstream, that is a strawman of epic proportions, especially since it seems that many in the "Woo" crowd will swallow anything they see on the internet. The burden of proof for what I will believe is fairly simple, and to a certain point follows closely the scientific method, albeit in somewhat abbreviated form.
1. The idea must be testable and capable of falsification.
2. The idea must conform with what we know about workings of the universe, or be specific in how it modifys our knowledge.
3. The idea must be capable of independant verification.

Until the "Woo" crowd starts observing these principles there will always be skeptics around to challenge them.
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