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  #31  
Old 10-31-2009, 07:26 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?


>>The piramids, the Mayan pyramids, the structure in Tihuanacu and many other monolithic structures all over the world are still around today in quite good condition and show traces of anachronistic advanced knowledge. We don't know how many more are still submerged beneath the world's deserts (in Egypt, there's a monolithic structure of an unknown era located many meters below any other structures in that area) or other locations?

'Anachronistic' is stretching it. Hardly lasers is it? stacking one block of stone on top of another. Not exactly exosuits.

Didn't they even have plastic then? We have plastic and we are quite low in the arts of science. A big block of solid plastic would have lasted millions of years. Carrier bags last long enough. I suppose they just had no use for plastic and preffered something that would CONVENIENTLY degrade away just in time for us to come along. Phew!

It's TOO convenient to be believable. As a past MENSA member you should grasp that.

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  #32  
Old 11-01-2009, 04:47 PM
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EireEngineer EireEngineer is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
Wrong. It is the whims of the masses that are directed by PR and advertising.



Most people would be happy to pay twice as much for an item that lasts 5 times longer. In fact, some products (like cleaning products) are marketed precisely with a slogan containing this context.

It is not the public that asks for poor quality products. It is poor quality products that are enforced on the masses because there is no better quality alternative.



Making computers that never break and buildings that never fall down and clothes that never fall apart would be contrary to the workings of the capitalist system.




con·trar·y adj.1. Opposed, as in character or purpose: contrary opinions; acts that are contrary to our code of ethics.
2. Opposite in direction or position: Our boat took a course contrary to theirs. See Synonyms at opposite.
3. Music Moving in the opposite direction at a fixed interval: playing scales in contrary motion.
4. Adverse; unfavorable: a contrary wind.
5. Given to recalcitrant behavior; willful or perverse.

n. pl. con·trar·ies 1. Something that is opposite or contrary.
2. Either of two opposing or contrary things: "Truth is perhaps . . . a dynamic compound of opposites, savage contraries for a moment conjoined" (A. Bartlett Giamatti).
3. Logic A proposition related to another in such a way that if the latter is true, the former must be false, but if the latter is false, the former is not necessarily true.

adv. In an opposite direction or manner; counter: The judge ruled contrary to all precedent in the case.

Idioms: by contraries Obsolete In opposition to what is expected.

on the contrary In opposition to what has been stated or what is expected: I'm not sick; on the contrary, I'm in the peak of health.

to the contrary To the opposite effect from what has been stated or what is expected: Despite what you say to the contary, this contract is fair.
You my friend are a nitwit. Yes I know what the word contrary means, lol. And no, there is no arbitrary function of capitalism that prevents the construction of unbreakable computers or buildings, if that is what the people actually demanded. However, the laws of physics do set some boundaries, and life is all about trade offs. In fact, they do make portable laptop computers that are extremely rugged and damn near indestructible. However, they cost about five times as much as the conventional equipment, and people truly arent willing to pay $9000 for a laptop. Especially if it has Vista installed on it.

You have a pretty low view of people. I guess you think that all people are just mindless little lemmings willing to do whatever the Mad Men say. In fact, most people make decisions and vote with their feet, as the saying goes. So long as there is choice and competition in the market, that is. If we were to adapt a Soviet style economy, there would be no choice, no competition, and definately no innovation. But the Nomenklatura would still have ipods, so I guess you are hoping to be one of them. Good luck, and when you get a chance try reading some Adam Smith and Milton Friedman to balance out your reading list.
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  #33  
Old 11-02-2009, 01:16 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Mensa?
I was only a member for a few months, though. I was a bit disappointed with the kind of people I met and in fact only joined it to be able to put it on my CV.

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
You are framing Atlantian technology in such a way that explains the lack of indestructable materials around today. To do this you are having to bend over backwards and make stuff up.
You're somehow assuming that the Atlaneans MUST HAVE had indestructable materials around, which is a groundless hypothesis. Yet you accuse me of bending over backwards and making stuff up? That's rich

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
It's too much. I suppose they didn't have satellites either. No satellites in the sky to speak of. Oh, then you'll say they were advanced in THAT particular branch of technology to not NEED them..
Maybe there were satellites or maybe there weren't. Maybe they needed them or maybe they had different ways of communicating globally. Either way, it's just speculation. I don't think anyone ever took the time to sort out all the space junk and look for ancient technology.

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You are like a christian desperately trying to explain away dinosaur bones.
You're like a "9/11 sceptic" desperately trying to explain away the obvious signs of controlled demolition.
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  #34  
Old 11-02-2009, 01:28 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
'Anachronistic' is stretching it. Hardly lasers is it? stacking one block of stone on top of another. Not exactly exosuits.
When I spoke of "anarchronistic", I was referring to knowledge of how to carve into diorite, knowledge of how to cut huge stone blocks and place them perfectly on top of one another, knowledge of how to make alluminum, advanced knowlegde of astronomy, knowledge of quantum physics, the ability to travel all over the world, etc. You conveniently left out those references...

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Didn't they even have plastic then? We have plastic and we are quite low in the arts of science. A big block of solid plastic would have lasted millions of years. Carrier bags last long enough. I suppose they just had no use for plastic and preffered something that would CONVENIENTLY degrade away just in time for us to come along. Phew!
Maybe they did discover plastic as well as a way to convert it to other materials. Maybe they never discovered plastic and used different materials. We can only speculate about this....

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
It's TOO convenient to be believable. As a past MENSA member you should grasp that.
I know there is only little evidence to support an Atlantean civilisation, but the evidence is not non-existant either. Without a highly advanced civilisation in the deep past, how do you explain the parallels between Eastern philosophy and advanced physics (see Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics")? How do you explain advanced knowledge of astronomy by seemingly primitive cultures? How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies? How do you explain the detailed nature of the Piri Reis map? etc.
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  #35  
Old 11-02-2009, 01:57 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
You my friend are a nitwit. Yes I know what the word contrary means, lol. And no, there is no arbitrary function of capitalism that prevents the construction of unbreakable computers or buildings, if that is what the people actually demanded.
If that's what you really believe, you're a fool. Capitalism inevitably leads to a decline of quality in favor of higher profit margins. I see it happening all around me in all economic sectors (from the concrete industry to the IT sector). Making unbreakable computers or buildings would be the exact oposite of the capitalist way.

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
You have a pretty low view of people. I guess you think that all people are just mindless little lemmings willing to do whatever the Mad Men say.
Most people, regardless of race of social status, are easily manipulated by the capitalist oligarchy. They will believe ANYTHING as long as it comes from a source they consider credible. To some that source is their local priest or iman, to others that source is "Popular Science", Karl Marx, Noam Chomsky, Alex Jones, ... How else do you think childish religions like Christianity or Islam could have survived the digital age? Why else do you think most American citizens still vote Republican or Democrat?

The rise of the Internet has decreased the hold of the oligarchy on the masses (as underground dissident opinions can not reach a larger public), though, but not to a degree that it makes a difference.

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
If we were to adapt a Soviet style economy, there would be no choice, no competition, and definately no innovation.
I'm not supporting a Soviet style economy either. Why must you think so black-and-white? Do you really believe there's only the choice between capitalism and communism?

So what types of economic system do I support? My preference goes to Syndicalism, Anarcho-Syndicalism, Natinoal-Anarchism, National-Socialism, Solidarism and similar systems.

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
Good luck, and when you get a chance try reading some Adam Smith and Milton Friedman to balance out your reading list.
I'm aware of Milton Friedman's theories and consider them utterly naive. The end result of the kind of laissez-faire capitalism he proposes will mean the speedy return of Dickensian society : a tiny well-educated upper class exploiting a huge under-educated underclass and the eradication of the middle-class. Although I'm pretty sure we're currently heading that same direction, laissez-faire capitalism will only get us there faster. After all, what's to stop the industrialist from exploiting his fellow man or developing a monopoly without laws making this illegal? Are we supposed to rely on his morality when today we already see industrial moguls behaving as immoral as legally possible to get profit margins as high as possible?!?
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  #36  
Old 11-02-2009, 03:52 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

Maybe this thread should be split in a thread on 9/11, one on capitalism and one on "Atlantis". Last few posts are getting a bit too much off-topic.

Last edited by BlueAngel : 11-03-2009 at 10:08 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:25 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

>>You're somehow assuming that the Atlaneans MUST HAVE had indestructable materials around, which is a groundless hypothesis. Yet you accuse me of bending over backwards and making stuff up? That's rich

Indestructable objects are not fanciful. We make them now. Like I said, a big chunk of plastic would last. No statues in plastic? No buildings? Nothing even discarded like a bottle. How convenient.

>>You're like a "9/11 sceptic" desperately trying to explain away the obvious signs of controlled demolition.

OBVIOUS? HAHH! I think this shows us your level. I think the questions posed about the IQ test may have some validity. You clearly have no grasp of what constitutes evidence.
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  #38  
Old 11-02-2009, 05:31 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

>>When I spoke of "anarchronistic", I was referring to knowledge of how to carve into diorite, knowledge of how to cut huge stone blocks and place them perfectly on top of one another, knowledge of how to make alluminum, advanced knowlegde of astronomy, knowledge of quantum physics, the ability to travel all over the world, etc. You conveniently left out those references...


Oh, so they found ancient aluminum did they? Yeah, and I suppose you have reliable evidence of that.

Advanced knowledge of astronomy and quantum physics? Where are you getting this from? I hope you are not talking about the Dogon because I've seen that debunked.

knowledge of how to cut huge stone blocks and place them perfectly on top of one another? OOH, I'm scared!!!! Big deal.

>>I was referring to knowledge of how to carve into diorite

"The carving procedure

Tip of the unfinished obelisk with rounded marks that show clearly the use of Diorite balls as carving tools
Symmetrical marks at the quarry of the unfinished obelisk showing the perforation to be filled with wood in order to detach the stone pieces from the bedThe carving was done on granite directly on the surface of the stone at the ground, by cutting four sides. It is now known that the tools employed for carving the granite were small balls of Diorite that is a mineral harder than granite. Once the sides were cut off, the process of separating the stone piece from the ground was a bit more complicated but very trivial. A series of perforations were made, again using Diorite-made tools. Obelisks made out of softer rock other than granite (i.e. sandstone) were carved with wooden spikes. These perforations were then filled with wood and these wood pieces were water saturated. The small pieces of wood expanded with the humidity breaking the separations between successive perforations and then effectively separating the carved piece from its bed. Many residues left at the rock beds and measuring nearly the size of many of the famous obelisks (for example the Cleopatra's Needles) are now known to exist at the Unfinished Obelisk open air museum."

Obelisk building technology in ancient Egypt - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It is not, literally, rocket science; which I WOULD count as anachronistic proof.

Last edited by albie : 11-02-2009 at 06:06 AM.
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  #39  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:11 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
Indestructable objects are not fanciful. We make them now.
Plastic can be recycled to make other plastic object. Maybe in the future, a prodecure can be developed to turn it into more basic molecules (after all, plastic is based on oil which itself is based on carbon and hydrogen atoms).

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
No statues in plastic? No buildings? Nothing even discarded like a bottle.
Today, stone is still the most popular material for buildings, followed by a combination of steel and concrete (which doesn't seem to be very durable in comparison with stone). Statues are still most commonly built in stone, bronze or other metals. If plastic would be such a great material for building and statues, why isn't it used more often today?!?

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
>>You're like a "9/11 sceptic" desperately trying to explain away the obvious signs of controlled demolition.

OBVIOUS? HAHH! I think this shows us your level. I think the questions posed about the IQ test may have some validity. You clearly have no grasp of what constitutes evidence.
A building collapsing on itself at almost free fall speed cannot occur as a consequence of fire and/or mere structural damage. The pancake theory doesn't hold because of the center steel columns that function as a skeleton. It would also have taken more time for the structure to collapse that way. If the central columns weren't nearly as strong as they were designed it makes no sense for the building to collapse almost perfectly vertically on its own (the building should have bent where most structural damage took place rather than collapse on its own). The traces of nano-thermite found, the molten steel found, eyewitness testimonies and other evidence further confirm the use of explosives.

Anyway, to anyone with a decent understanding of physics it makes no sense whatsoever that either WTC1, WTC2 or WTC7 were taken down without the use of explosives. In fact, the collapse of WTC7 was a classic controlled demolition and this has been well-documented.

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
Oh, so they found ancient aluminum did they? Yeah, and I suppose you have reliable evidence of that.
Here's an article dealing with this topic. I expect, however, that you will dismiss this article or any other article dealing with such anomalies since they're not from any "academic source" (who rarely mention this sort of anomalies precisely because they're anomalies and don't fit into any mainstream theory).

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
Advanced knowledge of astronomy and quantum physics? Where are you getting this from? I hope you are not talking about the Dogon because I've seen that debunked.
The most well-known book on this topic is Fritjof Capra's Tao of PhysicsTao of Physics . You can find a downloadable copy in PDF format by Googling for it (I tried to insert a link but for some reason it won't work).


Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
knowledge of how to cut huge stone blocks and place them perfectly on top of one another?
Even with today's technology some Egyptian, Tolmec and Roman structures would still be very hard to rebuild due to both the weight of the building blocks and the incredible precision.

Last edited by Out of the Box : 11-02-2009 at 06:23 AM.
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  #40  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:15 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
I know there is only little evidence to support an Atlantean civilisation, but the evidence is not non-existant either. Without a highly advanced civilisation in the deep past, how do you explain the parallels between Eastern philosophy and advanced physics (see Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics")? How do you explain advanced knowledge of astronomy by seemingly primitive cultures? How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies? How do you explain the detailed nature of the Piri Reis map? etc.
>>Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics

"Many Eastern sages have said many things in elliptical and obscure language, even in the original, which suffer further in translation. Anyone as imaginative and dedicated as Fritjof Capra or even someone limited, such as myself can go through the vast amounts of Eastern sage revelations and come up with parallels that can match and interpret it to suit any scientific conclusion. "

Here we have a comparison pointed out, showing how weak the comparison actually is...

"All right. No arguments, every scientist uses both reason and intuition in attacking problems - but in the end two are not equal. If intuition overwhelmingly suggests as conclusion, it still must be supported by reason, or else it is only a mere soap bubble speculation. If on the other hand, the conclusion of reason goes against intuition, then reason must nevertheless be supported and intuition dismissed. Capra seems to imply that they are equal, and he points out that modern physics, in probing into the most fundamental aspects of matter and energy, has come up with a picture in which the universe seems to be a "continuous dancing and vibrating motion whose rythmic patterns are determined by the molecular, atomic and nuclear structures."
He then quotes a Taoist Text to the following effect: "The stillness is not the realness. Only when there is stillness in movement can the spiritual rythm appear which pervades heaven and earth". This, says Capra is "exactly the message we get from modern physics". But what does the Taoist text mean? I can see that "stillness in movement" represents a dynamic equilibrium and that it is the latter that is important in the universe - but that is my interpretation based on my knowledge of science. What did it mean to the fellow who first said it? And what other interpretations can be made of it by people who do not possess the particular frame of ideas which exist in my mind. "

If all his comparisons are that weak then I would laugh my balls off.





Indian Skeptic Vol 1 No 8/3

>>Piri Reis map

It isn't even that accurate. The experts can't even agree about what land mass it shows. That's how unaccurate it is. I think you underestimate the abilities of ancient man.

The Map Room: The Piri Reis Map of 1513

"So, inasmuch as there are pages about the map’s place in Hapgood’s theory, there are also plenty of web sites dedicated to disproving Hapgood’s theory — not on the basis of its own absurdity, but on Hapgood’s own terms. If claims are made to the map’s accuracy and representation, it’s surprisingly easy to refute them. Both Steven Dutch and Diego Cuoghi do just this, pointing out that

•the map is tremendously inaccurate around the Caribbean, reflecting Columbus’s own errors;
•the map does not fit an azimuthal equidistant projection; and, most importantly,
•the curve in South America’s coast does not match Antarctica nearly as well (for one thing, it misses lots of coastline, as well as Cape Horn) as it does Patagonia, if the map is suddenly turned at that point."

See also...


The Piri Reis Map

and...

THE MYSTERIES OF THE PIRI REIS MAP - 1


>> How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies?

Boats. Obviously people travelled around much more than is recorded. Not evidence for anything.

Last edited by albie : 11-02-2009 at 06:28 AM.
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