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  #41  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:15 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?


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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
I know there is only little evidence to support an Atlantean civilisation, but the evidence is not non-existant either. Without a highly advanced civilisation in the deep past, how do you explain the parallels between Eastern philosophy and advanced physics (see Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics")? How do you explain advanced knowledge of astronomy by seemingly primitive cultures? How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies? How do you explain the detailed nature of the Piri Reis map? etc.
>>Fritjof Capra's "The Tao of Physics

"Many Eastern sages have said many things in elliptical and obscure language, even in the original, which suffer further in translation. Anyone as imaginative and dedicated as Fritjof Capra or even someone limited, such as myself can go through the vast amounts of Eastern sage revelations and come up with parallels that can match and interpret it to suit any scientific conclusion. "

Here we have a comparison pointed out, showing how weak the comparison actually is...

"All right. No arguments, every scientist uses both reason and intuition in attacking problems - but in the end two are not equal. If intuition overwhelmingly suggests as conclusion, it still must be supported by reason, or else it is only a mere soap bubble speculation. If on the other hand, the conclusion of reason goes against intuition, then reason must nevertheless be supported and intuition dismissed. Capra seems to imply that they are equal, and he points out that modern physics, in probing into the most fundamental aspects of matter and energy, has come up with a picture in which the universe seems to be a "continuous dancing and vibrating motion whose rythmic patterns are determined by the molecular, atomic and nuclear structures."
He then quotes a Taoist Text to the following effect: "The stillness is not the realness. Only when there is stillness in movement can the spiritual rythm appear which pervades heaven and earth". This, says Capra is "exactly the message we get from modern physics". But what does the Taoist text mean? I can see that "stillness in movement" represents a dynamic equilibrium and that it is the latter that is important in the universe - but that is my interpretation based on my knowledge of science. What did it mean to the fellow who first said it? And what other interpretations can be made of it by people who do not possess the particular frame of ideas which exist in my mind. "

If all his comparisons are that weak then I would laugh my balls off.





Indian Skeptic Vol 1 No 8/3

>>Piri Reis map

It isn't even that accurate. The experts can't even agree about what land mass it shows. That's how unaccurate it is. I think you underestimate the abilities of ancient man.

The Map Room: The Piri Reis Map of 1513

"So, inasmuch as there are pages about the map’s place in Hapgood’s theory, there are also plenty of web sites dedicated to disproving Hapgood’s theory — not on the basis of its own absurdity, but on Hapgood’s own terms. If claims are made to the map’s accuracy and representation, it’s surprisingly easy to refute them. Both Steven Dutch and Diego Cuoghi do just this, pointing out that

•the map is tremendously inaccurate around the Caribbean, reflecting Columbus’s own errors;
•the map does not fit an azimuthal equidistant projection; and, most importantly,
•the curve in South America’s coast does not match Antarctica nearly as well (for one thing, it misses lots of coastline, as well as Cape Horn) as it does Patagonia, if the map is suddenly turned at that point."

See also...


The Piri Reis Map

and...

THE MYSTERIES OF THE PIRI REIS MAP - 1


>> How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies?

Boats. Obviously people travelled around much more than is recorded. Not evidence for anything.


Last edited by albie : 11-02-2009 at 06:28 AM.
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  #42  
Old 11-02-2009, 06:32 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Maybe you should read the book first before dismissing it. It's not that expensive

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
>>Piri Reis map

It isn't even that accurate. The experts can't even agree about what land mass it shows. That's how unaccurate it is. I think you underestimate the abilities of ancient man.

[....]
What about the Antarctic coastline? Not only wasn't Antarctica discovered for about 3 centuries, the coastline seems to match the coastline UNDERNEATH the ice.

Piri Reis used different sources for his map and the accuracy of some parts and inaccuracy of others can be explained by this.

>> How do you explain the presence of statues with negroid features in pre-Columbian South-America and the presence of coca traces in Egyptian mummies?

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Boats. Obviously people travelled around much more than is recorded. Not evidence for anything.
Still.... according to official historiography, no African had ever set foot in South-America at that time and the vikings had been the only "Old World" inhabitants to ever set foot in the Americas (and only a handful of times). So whoes boats were they?!? How did negroes get to South-America and coca extracts to Egypt?
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  #43  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:23 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

Prove that block of aluminium was actually found in that hole. Prove it didn't slip in recently, during the excavation. Prove that place hadn't been dug up before and the item lost there recently. Prove that the oxidisation couldn't have happened in a short time period. Prove it wasn't a fake. There's no real proof of how old it is or where it was found.

>>Maybe you should read the book first before dismissing it. It's not that expensive


Did you read the criticism of the book and the rest of the stuff I provided? I bet not. Have you spent a second trying to debunk all the things you hold to be true. I bet not.

>>Still.... according to official historiography, no African had ever set foot in South-America at that time and the vikings had been the only "Old World" inhabitants to ever set foot in the Americas (and only a handful of times). So whoes boats were they?!? How did negroes get to South-America and coca extracts to Egypt?

Do you think maybe they WALKED? the land masses are connected, and even more so in the distant past. They could still have used boats. What's to stop them? your dim view of black people?

You haven't provided one iota of real reliable evidence. I wonder why you still believe. Maybe I just have higher standards. You should use your little grey cells and see where I'm coming from.
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  #44  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:45 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

Piltdown Man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archaeological Forgeries

Category:Archaeological forgeries - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Archaeological hoaxes spur history text rethink | The Japan Times Online

Quote:
Archaeological hoaxes spur history text rethink
Six publishers of high school history textbooks are considering revising entries in their books about Japan's earliest stoneware, following Sunday's disclosure that a leading archaeologist had fabricated his discoveries of such artifacts.


The textbooks contain descriptions of stoneware unearthed at the Kamitakamori ruins in Tsukidate, Miyagi Prefecture, purportedly dating back as far as 700,000 years.

Shinichi Fujimura, 50, who served as deputy director of the Tohoku Paleolithic Institute, admitted Sunday that he buried stoneware in late October to make up the finds at the Kamitakamori ruins. He also said he similarly planted stoneware at the Soshinfudozaka ruins in Shintotsukawa, Hokkaido, in September.

Last edited by albie : 11-03-2009 at 05:50 AM.
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  #45  
Old 11-03-2009, 05:54 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

Quote:
Even with today's technology some Egyptian, Tolmec and Roman structures would still be very hard to rebuild due to both the weight of the building blocks and the incredible precision.
They used skills that DIED OUT. We could easily relearn them and replicate them today. Not evidence.
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  #46  
Old 11-03-2009, 08:03 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Originally Posted by albie View Post
They used skills that DIED OUT. We could easily relearn them and replicate them today.
Just like we could easily learn space travel, I guess.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Not evidence.
The Egyptian, Tolmec and Roman structures are evidence of highly advanced stone building skills (no more, no less). Interesting is also that some of these advanced techniques (eg. binding huge blocks by means of metal pieces moulded on the spot) were used both in pre-Columbian South-America and in the "New World", which might suggest a mutual influence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Prove that block of aluminium was actually found in that hole. Prove it didn't slip in recently, during the excavation. Prove that place hadn't been dug up before and the item lost there recently. Prove that the oxidisation couldn't have happened in a short time period. Prove it wasn't a fake. There's no real proof of how old it is or where it was found.
What would constitute as proof in your opinion?

>>Maybe you should read the book first before dismissing it. It's not that expensive

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Did you read the criticism of the book and the rest of the stuff I provided? I bet not.
Only very superficially. I haven't had the time yet to go through everything yet as I also have a life to manage....

Anyway, criticism of a source is pointless without checking at least relevant excerpts of the source itself or criticism of the critic ("debunkers of the debunkers"). It is very easy and common to misrepresent oposing views by means of quote-mining and other techniques.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Have you spent a second trying to debunk all the things you hold to be true. I bet not.
I always spend many hours checking out sources from as many perspectives as possible before I make up my mind about something. I never limit myself to just one POV.

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
Do you think maybe they WALKED? the land masses are connected, and even more so in the distant past. They could still have used boats. What's to stop them? your dim view of black people?
It doesn't matter HOW they got from one place to the other. What matters, is that official historiography claims they DIDN'T (which shows that official historiography is wrong in this critical area). How hard is that to understand with that thick skull of yours?

Also, Africa and Europe were NEVER connected to South-America (at least not since man walks on this planet). There is also no evidence of any negroid culture ever making boats that remotely allowed inter-continental travels and also among other cultures there was only very little technology capable of intercontinental travel at a regular basis that we know of (which is why official historiography says is was pretty much non-existant).

Quote:
Originally Posted by albie View Post
You haven't provided one iota of real reliable evidence. I wonder why you still believe. Maybe I just have higher standards.
You prefer to ignore anomalies, whereas I try to find a logical explanation. That's where we differ.
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  #47  
Old 11-03-2009, 10:11 PM
BlueAngel BlueAngel is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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Maybe this thread should be split in a thread on 9/11, one on capitalism and one on "Atlantis". Last few posts are getting a bit too much off-topic.
This thread doesn't need to be split.
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  #48  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:50 AM
Out of the Box Out of the Box is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

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This thread doesn't need to be split.
If you say so....
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  #49  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:51 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

>>I always spend many hours checking out sources from as many perspectives as possible before I make up my mind about something. I never limit myself to just one POV.

Oh, so you already knew about the criticisms of your evidence? I bet not. I bet I could ask you to provide details of debunkery on any subject and you'd have to google it.
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  #50  
Old 11-04-2009, 05:52 AM
albie albie is offline
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Default Re: Real Atlantis Story Suppressed?

Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by albie
They used skills that DIED OUT. We could easily relearn them and replicate them today.

Just like we could easily learn space travel, I guess.....

Where is the logic in this statement? It means nothing.
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