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  #61  
Old 11-10-2009, 02:04 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax


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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
I have looked at them both and not found it convincing, but to each his own.
I know only little about Rife's work (although I find his story fascinating), but I have looked into the arguments of Duesberg and as a layman I find no arguments to disprove him. IMO, this gives him as a prominent scientist at least the benefit of a doubt.

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  #62  
Old 11-10-2009, 12:48 PM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
I know only little about Rife's work (although I find his story fascinating), but I have looked into the arguments of Duesberg and as a layman I find no arguments to disprove him. IMO, this gives him as a prominent scientist at least the benefit of a doubt.
Some of Duesburgs assertions that are obviously bunk:

4) The epidemic is fragmented into distinct subepidemics with exclusive AIDS-defining diseases. For example, only homosexual males have Kaposi's sarcoma.

University Clinic Hamburg.
OBJECTIVE: To assess the natural history of KS in HIV-positive women METHODS: Clinical, epidemiological and immunological data of ten women with biopsy-proven KS living in Germany were evaluated. RESULTS: Mean age was 39.7 years. KS was the first AIDS defining event in 9 and reason for testing in 3. Mean CD4-count was 215/yl. 2 patients were of African origin. 5 patients were heterosexually infected. All but one, a prostitute, had a bisexual HIV-positive partner, 3/4 partners had KS. 3 women were IVDU. 2, possibly all 3, had been prostitutes. Initially, 8 patients had limited, 2 widely disseminated disease. Only 1 patient has not progressed. 6 patients died after a mean follow-up of 16.7 months (range 7 to 43). In 4, death was at least partly attributed to end-stage KS. Survival was longer for non IVDU and for patients with higher CD4-counts at diagnosis. CONCLUSION: KS runs a particularly aggressive course in women. Our data are consistent with a sexually transmissible etiologic agent of KS. Prostitution, an issue yet to be addressed by other authors reporting series of women with KS, was reported in 4 of our patients Further studies need to clarify the significance of this finding.

(1)
AIDS is not contagious. For example, not even one health care worker has contracted AIDS from over 800,000 AIDS patients in America and Europe.

It took me all of five seconds to find an article in The Lancet on a heathcare worker infected by a patient, and many more where heathcare workers have infected patients.
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  #63  
Old 11-11-2009, 03:40 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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4) The epidemic is fragmented into distinct subepidemics with exclusive AIDS-defining diseases. For example, only homosexual males have Kaposi's sarcoma.

University Clinic Hamburg.
OBJECTIVE: To assess the natural history of KS in HIV-positive women METHODS: Clinical, epidemiological and immunological data of ten women with biopsy-proven KS living in Germany were evaluated. RESULTS: Mean age was 39.7 years. KS was the first AIDS defining event in 9 and reason for testing in 3. Mean CD4-count was 215/yl. 2 patients were of African origin. 5 patients were heterosexually infected. All but one, a prostitute, had a bisexual HIV-positive partner, 3/4 partners had KS. 3 women were IVDU. 2, possibly all 3, had been prostitutes. [...] Prostitution, an issue yet to be addressed by other authors reporting series of women with KS, was reported in 4 of our patients.
So Duesberg was inaccurate. This doesn't disprove his hypothesis, though.

Note the marked words. All but one had a bisexual HIV-positive partner. 3/4 of partners had KS and the one that didn't have an HIV-positive partner was a prostitute. Duesberg attributes the homosexual variation of AIDS to the use of poppers. Considering this data, the use of poppers is far from unlikely. In fact, it is remarkable that of male partners only 3/4 had KS, however it makes sense considering they were in a heterosexual relationship and poppers are mostly used for widening the anus for anal sex.

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Originally Posted by EireEngineer View Post
AIDS is not contagious. For example, not even one health care worker has contracted AIDS from over 800,000 AIDS patients in America and Europe.

It took me all of five seconds to find an article in The Lancet on a heathcare worker infected by a patient, and many more where heathcare workers have infected patients.
And we know there's a causal relationship because......??

Another inaccuracy that doesn't disprove his hypothesis.
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  #64  
Old 11-11-2009, 08:13 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

Because the healthcare worker had been tested, as required by law, just the week before, had a patient who was HIV+, and while attempting to resuscitate him was accidentally stuck by a needle containing his blood. Given the patients known HIV+ status, she was put on leave, and later tested positive. She did not fit into ANY of the risk groups, and this was the sole incident that could have caused the infection. Here in Denver, we recently had a similar incident, only it was the mans ribs that did the sticking. He had been in a car accident and they had missed a couple of rib fractures on intake. The man coded, and during CPR, one of the man's ribs punctured the skin, glove, and finally the skin of the nurse performing the CPR. Big surprise that she came down HIV+ the next time she was tested.
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Old 11-12-2009, 09:53 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Because the healthcare worker had been tested, as required by law, just the week before, had a patient who was HIV+, and while attempting to resuscitate him was accidentally stuck by a needle containing his blood. Given the patients known HIV+ status, she was put on leave, and later tested positive. She did not fit into ANY of the risk groups, and this was the sole incident that could have caused the infection.
This doesn't prove ANYTHING. If you had researched the Duesberg hypothesis, you'd understand that. According to the Duesberg hypothesis, a positive HIV test is actually quite common and unrelated to AIDS.

Maybe you should actually research the Duesberg hypothesis before coming up with this sort of strawman arguments. I suggest you start by watching the 2 hour documentary HIV=AIDS: Fact Or Fraud and move on from there.
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  #66  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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This doesn't prove ANYTHING. If you had researched the Duesberg hypothesis, you'd understand that. According to the Duesberg hypothesis, a positive HIV test is actually quite common and unrelated to AIDS.

Maybe you should actually research the Duesberg hypothesis before coming up with this sort of strawman arguments. I suggest you start by watching the 2 hour documentary HIV=AIDS: Fact Or Fraud and move on from there.
Ill look at it, but the fact that I found so many inconsistancies in just a cursory investigation does not impress me much.
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Old 11-12-2009, 10:38 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Ill look at it, but the fact that I found so many inconsistancies in just a cursory investigation does not impress me much.
Thusfar, you've only brought up strawman arguments that are anything but impressive. Just watch the video first. It gives a very good introduction into the matter and this video is actually what made me interested in the topic in the first place.
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  #68  
Old 11-12-2009, 10:45 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Thusfar, you've only brought up strawman arguments that are anything but impressive. Just watch the video first. It gives a very good introduction into the matter and this video is actually what made me interested in the topic in the first place.
A straw man means that I am exaggerating the claim. There is no need to do that in this case.
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Old 11-12-2009, 11:16 AM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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A straw man means that I am exaggerating the claim. There is no need to do that in this case.
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Your arguments were based on a misrepresentation of Duesberg's hypothesis or otherwise you would have known they were irrelevant.

Anyway.... Why don't you just watch the video first before you make any more comments? It's only two hours. Thusfar, I haven't encountered a single "debunker" or "skeptic" who can provide a plausible explanation for the points made in the video (eg. the failure of the HIV/AIDS hypothesis to pass Koch's postulates or the fact that almost all cases of AIDS within the developed world are limited to specific risk groups).
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Old 11-12-2009, 12:33 PM
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Default Re: The Great "HIV" Hoax

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Originally Posted by Out of the Box View Post
The Straw Man fallacy is committed when a person simply ignores a person's actual position and substitutes a distorted, exaggerated or misrepresented version of that position. Your arguments were based on a misrepresentation of Duesberg's hypothesis or otherwise you would have known they were irrelevant.

Anyway.... Why don't you just watch the video first before you make any more comments? It's only two hours. Thusfar, I haven't encountered a single "debunker" or "skeptic" who can provide a plausible explanation for the points made in the video (eg. the failure of the HIV/AIDS hypothesis to pass Koch's postulates or the fact that almost all cases of AIDS within the developed world are limited to specific risk groups).
Well, he was the one that claimed that women dont get KS, after all, so that is not an overstatement.
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